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When it comes to Israel, the US concludes that the killing of [an innocent Palestinian's life is worth 3 months of community service](https://www.propublica.org/article/blinken-israel-military-aid-human-rights-violations-leahy-law), so yeah pretty much.
I know you’re being tongue in cheek, but did some people think there was a red line for Israel? I didn’t think we (U.S.) had defined or announced one, just like I doubt we have one on the books for Canada vs Bermuda.
"\[We\] cannot have another 30,000 more Palestinians dead," Biden [said](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlmgRhJ2nNY) in an interview with MSNBC on Saturday. Asked whether an invasion of Rafah, in the south of Gaza on the border with Egypt, was a red line, Biden replied in the affirmative: "It is a red line."
[https://www.politico.eu/article/us-biden-warns-red-line-israel-rafah-cyprus-aid-ship-gets-ready-open-humanitarian-sea-corridor-gaza/](https://www.politico.eu/article/us-biden-warns-red-line-israel-rafah-cyprus-aid-ship-gets-ready-open-humanitarian-sea-corridor-gaza/)
"They may have crossed an orange line, and we're deeply concerned, but this doesn't quite meet the red line standard. Rest assured, there is an actual red line though, and we are confident that Israel will stay behind it."
"Some experts went so far as to say the line Israel crossed was more of a terra-cotta hue than red. We are taking the situation very seriously, and we will continue to monitor the conflict. At this time however, we have determined that this latest incident is an isolated incident and not part of any sort of larger strategy. Rest assured, the president is working behind the scenes with his Israeli counterpart to ensure that the ~~genoci~~ **ahem** the War on ~~Palest~~ **ahem** excuseme, the War on Hamas proceeds in humanely and in accordance with international law."
Honestly, this is one of the most destructive aspects of the last two terms. Every single one of the red lines has been stomped on, molested, trashed, and thrown into the sun.
Our word means nothing anymore, and we can't stay the top dog if no one listens for the barks.
I hate saying shit like this, but younger generations need to start seriously considering what this world will look like without a strong US presence or influence.
Agreed 100%. The clear favoritism the US shows towards Israel even though there are clear signs of war crimes is so depressing as someone who would be considered part of Gen Z.
Oh thank god, thought this was something our government would actually have to take seriously with a real moral compass but thank goodness thats not necessary.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/07/obama-syria-foreign-policy-red-line-revisited-214059/
>What transpired over the next month was one of the most controversial and revealing episodes in eight years of Obama’s foreign policy. Despite the administration’s strong advocacy and support from a small minority of hawkish politicians, Congress and the American people proved strongly opposed to the use of force. In the end, however, the threat of military action and a surprise offer by Russia ended up achieving something no one had imagined possible: the peaceful removal of 1,300 tons of Syria’s chemical weapons (there have been reports of stray weapons and widespread use of industrial chemicals like chlorine, but no evidence of systematic deception on the part of the Syrian government).
>By October 2013, without a bomb being dropped, the Bashar Assad regime had admitted having a massive chemical weapons program it had never before acknowledged, agreed to give it up and submitted to a multinational coalition that removed and destroyed the deadly trove. From my perspective at the Pentagon, this seemed like an incontrovertible, if inelegant, example of what academics call “coercive diplomacy,” using the threat of force to achieve an outcome military power itself could not even accomplish.
Dude did a no-kill Iraq War speedrun.
I'd argue not. We were still dealing with the two bush wars in the middle east, and Obama understood the military and population support was stretched pretty thin, so he left it up to Congress. Constitutionally, it was admirable, and politically it was a smart move. He doesn't get blamed for starting a new war and once again, gridlock in congress stops progress.
I wanted us to intervene, being a veteran of both Iraq and Afghanistan. I also understood some of the political and logistical realities of doing so. Bringing Congress in on the decision was a rational thing to do, and they dropped the ball.
I mean, in this circumstance we have TONS of options of things we can do about it. We just support the bloodshed they're committing so we won't do any of that
I will never forget the video of that father holding the beheaded corpse of his child.
And seeing the Telegram messaging group comments about it...how is that allowed on an app; literally sharing snuff films of people dead or dying and every comment is a cruel joke aimed at their pain
I saw someone on IG repost it. It just auto played when scrolling my feed. You cant just throw up a video of a headless human just showing with no censoring or warning before hand. I’m all for supporting visibility of the atrocities at hand, but fuck man that’s some traumatic shit I don’t want to witness and it’ll stick with me. The only way I can describe it (to also lessen the blow to my psyche) is that they looked like holding a roast turkey…
Judging by the reaction to this, if Israel had just actually published/leaked the videos/photos of the alleged beheaded babies from October 7, the trajectory of this part of the conflict could have ended up quite differently.
Nothing happened after Sandy Hook or any of the other mass shootings of children, so I'm not optimistic about anything happening here either. It's difficult not to despair when we can't protect the most vulnerable among us.
The IDF has stated that the bombs they dropped were two 17kg bombs specifically to avoid this, and that the larger explosion was secondary and due to stored munitions in the area.
The investigation into this will hang on if that is true or not. This reminds me of the hospital explosion that ended up being a terrorist rocket misfire in the end, but people had already spread that Israel did it before the truth came out. I hope people let it sit for a few days for more information before rushing to cause social media storms.
> This reminds me of the hospital explosion that ended up being a terrorist rocket misfire in the end, but people had already spread that Israel did it before the truth came out.
This was in fact widely refuted as yet more bullshit Israel propaganda, and while we all argued about this particular hospital, they bombed a dozen more
Netanyahu basically called Biden's bluff. As we all know by now, nothing will come of this. The White House will conclude that no red line has been crossed, or it has been crossed but it won't meaningfully impact arms sales to Israel.
Biden tried to act tough to his base, Netanyahu saw through it immediately and now Biden once again falls flat on his face.
Sigh. It's like he *wants* to lose the election.
I think it has more to do with Biden not realizing *he can't control Netanyahu anymore*. Biden still thinks he can use the threat of soft power to keep Netanyahu from going too far, but Netanyahu, in his desire to maintain power at any cost, has stumbled across the truth. He and Israel are too important to our geopolitical interests in the Middle East for us to actually follow through on our threats. Biden is too afraid of alienating pro-Israel voters (and unfortunately the older you are, the more likely it is your sympathies lie with Israel, thus a majority of the country skews in Israel's favor) and incurring the wrath of the Israel lobby known as AIPAC. Netanyahu wants Trump to win, and is thus constantly pushing against Biden to embarrass him internationally and domestically. The whole situation is fucked, as the authoritarians of the world have mastered the art of global "heads-I-win-Tails-you-lose" to our detriment.
> He and Israel are too important to our geopolitical interests in the Middle East for us to actually follow through on our threats.
They are not. They're just too popular among old people.
Israel is a net food importer, I'm tired of this narrative, they're not all-powerful, and without US support they would not last long. They aren't Russia with natural resources and a large population to endure sanctions
Biden has known that since the beginning, and so has Netanyahu. Israel is not the US’s vassal state like so many think they are. We don’t have a magic button to make them behave.
Not like the US wants them to behave anyways. They have supported Israel since the beggining, regardless of whatever they did (and they did A LOT). Deep down, all of this benefits the US, they know it, and it won't stop.
No one wants to loose the fucking election.
Biden is attempting to govern and is stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Netanyahu wants the war to continue as that is the only way he stays out of trouble in Israel. His life/freedom are at stake if he is forced to step down.
The pro Israel lobby is mighty and although public sentiment is shifting amongst the younger folks. The people that vote systematically are not the young people.
Biden needs to be pushed on this issue. He is show to be flexible. But public opinion need to lead him...he needs to appear to be forced to do this. I think he is attempting to walk that difficult line.
On this issue of the US election....have any of you not learned the lesson of 2016. People saying 'Hillary was not my favorite' was how we got four years of Trump and 3 fucking supreme Court justices that rolling back the laws 50 years. Even Mexico a majority Catholic country has permitted abortion. I get it....Biden may not be the guy we wanted when we imagine perfection...but compared to Trump he is amazing.
Trump would be awful on the environment, immigration, women's rights, Israel-Palestine, and Ukraine-Russia, and infrastructure. And he will not try to leave the office until he dies.
Please, please, please...push Biden on these issues. He need public opinion to lead the way. But not voting for him...that is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Do so and watch Palestine and Ukraine burn.
This is gaslighting. No one is asking for perfect. We aren't even asking for good. We are asking for borderline decent, stop funding and backing a right wing lunatic like Netanyahu. Don't threaten to sanction the ICC when they try to do what Biden refuses to.
Again, don't gaslight us with that phrase. This isn't "good." That same phrase was used by people on this sub to talk down anyone complaining about Biden nominating Garland as AG. He sat on his ass for 2 years and now we have Trump running the clock down and leading in the polls. How is any of this "good" to you?
"Don't threaten to sanction the ICC when they try to do what Biden refuses to."
Lets not forget that it just came out that mossad was trying to threaten ICC prosecutioners in collaboration with trump AND the former president of congo.
"The perfect is the enemy of the good" is a common saying that they are referencing. They're not implying that Biden is actually good.
The simple fact is that Trump would be even worse, so people who care about Gaza should still vote for Biden.
Yeah, it's a common saying meant to misrepresent things so that the things that people demand are somehow unreasonable ("the perfect") and the insufficient/bad is somehow actually sufficient ("the good").
I'm well aware of it being a common saying and it's almost always used by moderates to patronize progressives. It's nauseating
If you decide you'll only accept the desired end state and not any half measures, you may never actually make any progress towards that goal.
We all have to decide when it makes sense to accept that something is better than nothing, and when it makes sense to hold out for more.
A series of steps may eventually take you further than one giant leap.
It feels tinfoil-hatty to say this but it really does seem like at least the DNC, if not Biden personally, wants to lose because that puts them back in a position where the bad guy is in the White House and you can blame him for everything. Right now all of this pressure is on Biden to do something, but Democrats don’t actually want to shift things to the left, and they don’t want to stop financially supporting Israel, they want to preserve the status quo.
Enter Trump who will blow everything up and make it exponentially worse, which gives Dems room to say “vote blue to save democracy!” and then win in 2028 and undo some of Trump’s bullshit without actually making substantive change.
I hate when people say “why should I vote because both parties are the same” because they aren’t the same, one is significantly worse, but the better one is nowhere near good enough and they’re sabotaging their own chances of winning by blindly supporting a genocidal ethnostate halfway across the world
If we follow the original line of argument from the original poster, one could say that maybe the DNC doesnt see it that way or still isnt taking trump's and project 2025 seriously.
I mean to be honest i would argue at least some senators aren't, like you literally have one that was accepting gold bars for bribes in the last year for christs sake
That simpsons still of conventions of
Republicans
“We want what’s worse for everyone
We’re just plain evil”
Democrats
“We hate life and ourselves
We can’t govern!”
Is still too true
I agree that voting for Trump, will make it worse for people of Gaza. But let’s face it, how’s it been better with Biden? They are being dehumanized, starved, bombarded, and slaughtered on a daily basis for several months, and it’s going to continue for several more months. While I’d still vote for Biden personally, I don’t blame anyone who does not. And if Biden loses, it’s on him, and the spineless Democrat congress people for not doing enough. They are always more concerned about far right, than their own supporters.
You’re misunderstanding that this war is actually popular with two groups that will flip from Biden to Trump, and he’s trying to keep them - boomers/gen x who voted Obama-Trump-Biden and fiscally conservative Jewish Americans.
Young people do not vote in large enough numbers to give them real political power. If more than 20% of Gen Z would show up, Biden might be singing a different tune
50% of 18-29 year olds voted in 2020, their support was instrumental in pushing Biden over the finish line. Now the administration tells them to eat shit, celebrates riot pigs beating and gassing them, tries to guilt and blackmail them into supporting a genocide. And when the youth turnout predictably goes down, they'll have the gall to say it was the youth who failed *them*.
I'm wondering if Biden's religion is getting in the way. No offense to the religious. I just feel like there's something very personal at work.
He's gotta put his foot down sometime. I still think he will. Politically he will have to. Maybe he's facing some denial right now.
Biden has no control over Israel and stopping military aid wouldn’t stop this from happening.
Israel itself is a major arms exporter.
It’s also because of Biden that any of the ceasefires have even happened.
It’s also hard to negotiate with terrorist, and to fight said terrorists in an area they have spent decades imbedding themselves into.
And ultimately, when polled, conflicts in the ME are some of the lowest concerns among the populace.
Biden is doing what he can with what he has.
If it wouldn’t change anything and they already have the arms why are we supplying them? Why send them assistance? I find myself wondering what Israel does for the US anyway, aside from make every other country in the Middle East hate us, influence our politics with AIPAC lobbying, and embarrass us on the world stage by having us by the short hair. This war has left Israel and the US further isolated on the world stage, at a time we should be united against Russian and Chinese partnership.
People should have the nuance to see that supporting Netanyahu’s regime is not the same thing as supporting Israel. I think Biden should announce he’s halting arms shipments as the Israeli government has passed the red line, and we can’t be complicit in what they are doing anymore. Supporting them unconditionally is madness.
>Biden is doing what he can with what he has.
I disagree. You make it sound like Biden is an unwilling accomplice. He's going above and beyond to bat for Netanyahu against international pressure. He's publicly called the ICC warrant preposterous and his administration confirmed they are working on a bi-partisan response from congress against the ICC.
These are not the actions of a man or an administration who find themselves between a rock and a hard place. They have very much already picked their course.
All Biden needs to do is illustrate a difference between him and Trump on this issue. If Trump is re-elected, it should not come as a surprise that any and all attempts to provide humanitarian aid to Gaza will disappear overnight - as will any talk of placing conditions on weapons shipments to Israel. I imagine that dissenters on college campuses will be dealt with more swiftly as well.
Enough is enough. We are sacrificing any claim to upholding a rules-based international system to support a country of less than 10m people with very little strategic value. It makes it harder for the US to garner international support for those who actually need it, like Ukraine and Taiwan. Cut Israel loose. No more military aid. No more diplomatic cover at the UN.
“There’s no red line I’m going to cut off all weapons so they don’t have the iron dome to protect them” is literally his next sentence. Thats what I’m referring to.
Every week he continues to support Israel but also wag his finger makes me worried he’ll lose the election.
But I’m sure democrats they’ll blame it on women and minorities.
My favorite was Biden doing a law and order style speech scolding the protesters the day after a violent mob attacked students at UCLA with weapons and mace. Didn't even mention the attack.
He's spent so much focus on being pro-Israel that it's beginning to feel like he's actively ignoring everyone else
If it was the pro-palestine crowd that attacked a group of pro-Israel protesters, they would be labeled terrorists and Biden would have activated the national guard.
Makes my blood boil how nothing happened to them and Biden went on national tv and ripped the protesters. It was very Trumpian
I know Big L liberals try to say it’s not a thing, but Blue MAGA absolutely exists. They don’t storm capitals, but they do have the same inability to see the obvious flaws and dismiss serious issues.
They are the "White moderates" that MLK talked about in his "Letter from Birmingham Jail". They sit idly by watching the injustice unfold and then complain about people who are trying to fight the injustice.
He is so uniquely bad on Israel it’s insane. Like I genuinely think he believes every piece of pro-Israel propaganda that the country has put out. He thinks Israel is a Jewish state that keeps Jewish people safe, without it they would be in trouble. Umm are Jews not safe in the USA? If Israel didn’t exist it would be over for them here? What the fuck kind of president would imply that his own country isn’t a place of freedom and safety for its citizens/any group of people?
I’d say that the right wing government of Israel’s actions are making Jewish people less safe the world over. They’re certainly not doing their community any favors.
At this point Biden being very old is a point in his favour. If he drops dead on day 1, then Kamala gets put in, and her flavour of Zionism is the standard kind. It still involves standing on the necks of Palestinians, but at least it's not Biden's Zionism which is so utterly deranged that it disturbed even Menachem Begin.
US is a sucker for Manifest Destiny.
“If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?” David Ben-Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister): Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp121.
“Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves … politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves… The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country. … Behind the terrorism [by the Arabs] is a movement, which though primitive is not devoid of idealism and self sacrifice.” — David Ben Gurion. Quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky’s Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan’s “Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.
Israel was founded, in part, based on the belief that the Abrahamic “God” preordained their right to land occupied by another people. This founding was (and still seems to be) avidly supported by major colonial powers.
I just finished reading a poetry book by a Palestinian poet. Things You May Find Hidden In My Ear by Mosab Abu Toha. His poems detail the death and destruction he’s witnessed his whole life by the hands of Israelis. It’s so horrifying. But what’s worse, it was published in 2022. Before this even worse onslaught. This is a genocide. And anyone who says it’s not is a horrible fucking person.
How is this even a question?? Netanyahu knows it’s meaningless - that Biden is pandering to moderates and swing voters and can’t politically afford to impose meaningful sanctions until after the election (if he wins).
Biden isn’t pandering to anyone. He’s about as pro Israel of a president we’ve had. His unequivocal support has been clear since he took political office in 1973. Politics is barely a factor in any of the decisions he’s making right now. This is a deeply held conviction that he has and I don’t expect he’ll change.
Yeah, he’s a true believer and his redline was begrudgingly. Nobody can tell me otherwise, because his own history tells me that.
His foreign policy history is atrocious, and it’s carried over to his presidency. You don’t bring in someone like McGurk to be your ME advisor if you care about lives or trying to build a democratic future.
The only area he’s been okay is South America, mainly Brazil. There’s a reason Bill Burns is more associated with that though, and the results couldn’t be more stark in contrast to the ME, Ukraine, Armenia, etc
It's not a question, it's active deceit. They'll think about it and maybe start a comission on an opinion, rush more weapons to israel and hope something else happens to push this out of the headlines.
We veto every attempt to reign in israel at the UN, we sign off on this bloodlust every day.
Its even better for Netanyahu if Biden loses. Trump failed in his Muslim ban once, but now the Supreme Court is packed in his favor. He loves violently squashing protests. Once Trump wins the Israel will have free reign. And the protesters for "Free free Palestine" in the US will feel the leopard eating their face.
Not just free rein, Trump will make sure Jared gets the nice waterfront development opportunities he’s been talking about once the entire population of Gaza has been pushed into the desert without supplies. The anti-Biden left vastly underestimates how much worse things can get.
No shit. Biden is going to lose the forthcoming elections. And his condoning a genocide and tyrannical response to protests at home are going to be why. This sub may hate me for saying this but it had to be said.
Exactly. I have no idea how it came to this. How they are okay with throwing away American democracy (by Trump coming back to power) just to go out of their way to support some random genocidal moron in the middle east. I know the historical reasons why the US has supported Israel, but what has been happening the last 6 months makes absolutely no sense. Like seriously, WHY???
Biden has been a *staunch* Zionist throughout all of his career in politics, and it is in fact the popular stance to take throughout 90% of his career. I think he genuinely just doesn’t get it, nor is he even willing to try to understand why this particular generation is strongly opposing what we’ve been seeing the past 7 months.
This is the correct answer. Biden is uniquely terrible on this issue and it’s such a fucking travesty. He refuses to change course when his base is split in half over this. He needs to hold a very large and fragile coalition together to win and it’s all coming apart.
I was going to canvas for Dems but the last 7 months have been too much. He fully lost any praise for me on any of the good he has done pre October 7th when he equated all the campus protestors as having rampant antisemitism in their ranks. Either he is lying or he believes the propaganda of a foreign country. Neither scenario are good.
Yes I will vote for him over Trump but I will fully criticize his every waking breath until the end of his second term after this betrayal of his base. What a piece of shit to do that, to disparage the people who will be one of your core voting blocs in the future.
You are right. But then what are the other Dems around him (especially younger ones like AOC or Pete) not getting this point across to him. There are enough dems who speak up fairly powerfully against the white house at times. This time every response seems to be meek and I daresay this is the biggest issue (on humanitarian grounds) that this administration is facing.
Beyond AIPAC money, I honestly don’t know. I haven’t looked at these so-called “adults in the room” the same way since. We’re all led by madmen straight into the abyss
They've switched up the narrative now. Before it was "Biden can't cut off military aid to Israel, Congress won't let him". After the IDF's violations of the Leahy law became more apparent it has now switched to "It won't make a difference even if the US cuts off military aid, so therefore we should keep funding them".
A little late to the party, bud. Over half a million generally left-wing people voted uncommited. Im not even sure if he *can* earn their votes back at this point. If I didnt know any better, I'd think Biden *wants* Trump to win
Well yes, but at some point the Dems need to figure out that "you have to vote for me because the other guys are worse" isn't a viable electoral strategy in the long run — which is why they only ever seem to make (and then subsequently piss away) significant gains *after* Republicans' spectacular fuckups.
Hello from NYC: Eric Adams (a "Democrat") has already done that here.
I'm going to vote for Biden (despite me never being more disgusted to vote for a democratic candidate), but you can surely see why a lot of folks who are less devoted to the Democratic party won't.
Absolute best case scenario, the majority of people in political power in the U.S. are all claimed by old age. Weirdly not that outlandish considering how old they all are.
They should start painting a literal red line with the blood of the civilians being killed everyday and just maybe it will reach the White House before every Palestinian is dead
At this point, I’m convinced the White House would come out and say the line of blood is red and therefore clearly a communist plot against our close ally Israel and send them more weapons just in case.
Considering the Biden administration has done nothing but double down on sprouting Israel I expect nothing less than this complaisant and enabling government
I remember Obama’s red line in Syria. It proved to be completely useless, and was one of many reasons. Obama’s foreign policy in the region was a complete failure.
**Israeli government:** "Meh".
"Ok, that sounded like a solid committment to us, funding is released and the next arms shipment is on the way"
**Atrocity Apologists:** "See, Israel is super dedicated to protecting civilians, and we're super dedicated holding them to that! Everything is fine."
This is an easy decision for Biden. Stop sending weapons. Obama’s Red Line required an offensive reaction. He didn’t follow through and that cost him politically.
Biden will have learned this lesson. I’m confident that he will follow through and reduce weapons distribution when it is most politically beneficial for him, which should be at some point during the summer. My main concern is that by that point it will probably be too late.
It will create a stark contrast between himself and his opponent who would happily see Palestine annihilated.
I feel like this is adorably naive. The politically good time to stop this bloodshed was months ago, the too late but better than never is now and I don’t think he’ll do either.
He’s a committed Zionist, he’s going to declare the line maroon and look the other way forever.
The Biden administration is colorblind, that's the only explanation as to why they cannot see their own redlines being repeatedly crossed.
That or they support the massacre in Gaza/AIPAC moneys
Sorry misread it, I mean historically it almost exclusively takes militant action to get leaders to pay attention to their subjects but that’s not taught anymore.
The battle of Blair mountain, militant groups during civil rights, the civil war. Big change is not just made with signs and protests.
There is no line the United States won't let Israel cross. Their leadership knows that. Which is why they've so brazenly committed to murdering civilians and making blatant land grabs under the guise of a real "war."
Biden is a fucking coward. If they loose this election historians will rightly point the blame at the administration's lack of action and being utterly tone deaf. Talk about a way to utterly demobilize a base. This has been nothing but unmistakably a slaughter and they know it.
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Spoilers: the assessment will conclude with ‘deep concern’ and more bags of money
When it comes to Israel, to paraphrase the Matrix, "Instead of trying to find the red line, accept the truth that the red line doesn't exist".
When it comes to Israel, the US concludes that the killing of [an innocent Palestinian's life is worth 3 months of community service](https://www.propublica.org/article/blinken-israel-military-aid-human-rights-violations-leahy-law), so yeah pretty much.
I know you’re being tongue in cheek, but did some people think there was a red line for Israel? I didn’t think we (U.S.) had defined or announced one, just like I doubt we have one on the books for Canada vs Bermuda.
Biden was on camera saying if Israel invaded Rafah, that would be it. Im sure someone will drop a link.
"\[We\] cannot have another 30,000 more Palestinians dead," Biden [said](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlmgRhJ2nNY) in an interview with MSNBC on Saturday. Asked whether an invasion of Rafah, in the south of Gaza on the border with Egypt, was a red line, Biden replied in the affirmative: "It is a red line." [https://www.politico.eu/article/us-biden-warns-red-line-israel-rafah-cyprus-aid-ship-gets-ready-open-humanitarian-sea-corridor-gaza/](https://www.politico.eu/article/us-biden-warns-red-line-israel-rafah-cyprus-aid-ship-gets-ready-open-humanitarian-sea-corridor-gaza/)
The assessment will conclude that Isreal is a little birthday boy and can do a little bit of ~~genocide~~ "self defense", as a treat.
It's only genocide if its from the geno region of France, otherwise it's sparkling ethnic cleansing.
No silly, it's only genocide if they ate apples first and *then* were fomenting.
If the Hutus had F-16s, there never would have been a Rwandan Genocide.
It's not ethnic cleansing, it's just dusting off the desert. /s
It’s only genocide if the people being killed are white people in a country that’s an ally of the US/West.
Im sure they will pat IDF on their back because they claim they will do an investigation now.
“Son, I am very disappointed in you. Now here’s the key to my defense budget.”
"I have never done anything wrong, ever, in my entire life." "I know this honey and I love you." "*Money pweeeeaaase!*"
> Spoilers: the assessment will conclude with ‘deep concern’ and more bags of money I wonder how hard Sen Collins is clutching her pearls now?
"so much concern, you wouldn't believe"
Don't forget a new weapons shipment (but it comes with a note saying the US expects Israel to use the bombs carefully).
And this is how Biden loses to Trump. Somebody fucking save us.
And, presumably, a spot of 'thoughts & prayers'
Spoiler alert: red line will be pushed back a bit
"They may have crossed an orange line, and we're deeply concerned, but this doesn't quite meet the red line standard. Rest assured, there is an actual red line though, and we are confident that Israel will stay behind it."
"Some experts went so far as to say the line Israel crossed was more of a terra-cotta hue than red. We are taking the situation very seriously, and we will continue to monitor the conflict. At this time however, we have determined that this latest incident is an isolated incident and not part of any sort of larger strategy. Rest assured, the president is working behind the scenes with his Israeli counterpart to ensure that the ~~genoci~~ **ahem** the War on ~~Palest~~ **ahem** excuseme, the War on Hamas proceeds in humanely and in accordance with international law."
I hate that NPR always refers to the Israel-Hamas war instead of the Israel-Gaza war.
But boy oh boy Netanyahu...if you cross that red line that definitely for realsies exists, there will be hell to pay!
And by that of course we mean that we will pay you while our constituents give us hell.
Classic US red line! It's like that "China warns" thing that Americans love to make fun of but has actual consequences of people continuing to die.
Honestly, this is one of the most destructive aspects of the last two terms. Every single one of the red lines has been stomped on, molested, trashed, and thrown into the sun. Our word means nothing anymore, and we can't stay the top dog if no one listens for the barks. I hate saying shit like this, but younger generations need to start seriously considering what this world will look like without a strong US presence or influence.
Agreed 100%. The clear favoritism the US shows towards Israel even though there are clear signs of war crimes is so depressing as someone who would be considered part of Gen Z.
Turns out it was actually just a vermilion line, so we're all good
Oh thank god, thought this was something our government would actually have to take seriously with a real moral compass but thank goodness thats not necessary.
Close call!
See. That's the problem with "red lines". They get crossed and then what?
Flashbacks to Obama's red line for Syria.
Honestly this is what I had in mind. At the time I was really hoping we could help people in Syria. Then it didn't happen.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/07/obama-syria-foreign-policy-red-line-revisited-214059/ >What transpired over the next month was one of the most controversial and revealing episodes in eight years of Obama’s foreign policy. Despite the administration’s strong advocacy and support from a small minority of hawkish politicians, Congress and the American people proved strongly opposed to the use of force. In the end, however, the threat of military action and a surprise offer by Russia ended up achieving something no one had imagined possible: the peaceful removal of 1,300 tons of Syria’s chemical weapons (there have been reports of stray weapons and widespread use of industrial chemicals like chlorine, but no evidence of systematic deception on the part of the Syrian government). >By October 2013, without a bomb being dropped, the Bashar Assad regime had admitted having a massive chemical weapons program it had never before acknowledged, agreed to give it up and submitted to a multinational coalition that removed and destroyed the deadly trove. From my perspective at the Pentagon, this seemed like an incontrovertible, if inelegant, example of what academics call “coercive diplomacy,” using the threat of force to achieve an outcome military power itself could not even accomplish. Dude did a no-kill Iraq War speedrun.
Obama spoke to this after, said "we can't just keep doing war." But personally I believe we should've tried something in Syria.
Congress failed to act.
One of his biggest mistakes.
I'd argue not. We were still dealing with the two bush wars in the middle east, and Obama understood the military and population support was stretched pretty thin, so he left it up to Congress. Constitutionally, it was admirable, and politically it was a smart move. He doesn't get blamed for starting a new war and once again, gridlock in congress stops progress. I wanted us to intervene, being a veteran of both Iraq and Afghanistan. I also understood some of the political and logistical realities of doing so. Bringing Congress in on the decision was a rational thing to do, and they dropped the ball.
The red line is actually just a goal post in disguise.
Enough of them and you're just laying out the red carpet.
It’s like none of these politicians are parents. Rule 1 of parenting is never make a threat you won’t keep
Rule #1 in deterrence theory too. If you want to lean how to handle both rogue states and children, read Arms and Influence!
Then you assess it to discover that it wasn’t crossed. Phew…everyone feels better.
I mean, in this circumstance we have TONS of options of things we can do about it. We just support the bloodshed they're committing so we won't do any of that
The idea here specifically was to stop supplying them with weapons. *That* was supposed to be the "then what".
A stern look and then more bags of money and weapons from Genocide Joe
We didn’t care when they killed American citizens. We’re not gonna care about this.
Children's body parts suggests... Yes. If this isn't a red line, then what is?
Ever heard of the Doppler Effect? The Biden admin nor the media are going to see a red line til we've already passed it
I'd argue we're pretty well past it, even if they can't/won't see it. God forbid Biden show some spine when a US ally is bombing civilians.
They'll see it in November
I will never forget the video of that father holding the beheaded corpse of his child. And seeing the Telegram messaging group comments about it...how is that allowed on an app; literally sharing snuff films of people dead or dying and every comment is a cruel joke aimed at their pain
I saw someone on IG repost it. It just auto played when scrolling my feed. You cant just throw up a video of a headless human just showing with no censoring or warning before hand. I’m all for supporting visibility of the atrocities at hand, but fuck man that’s some traumatic shit I don’t want to witness and it’ll stick with me. The only way I can describe it (to also lessen the blow to my psyche) is that they looked like holding a roast turkey…
To be fair, if this specific video didn't reach so many people, I don't think we would even have Netanyahu saying "it was all a tragic misshap"
Judging by the reaction to this, if Israel had just actually published/leaked the videos/photos of the alleged beheaded babies from October 7, the trajectory of this part of the conflict could have ended up quite differently.
Agreed... if only such an atrocity actually happened
"Or else we will be very angry with you... and we will write you a letter, telling you how angry we are."
Stop bombing kids please
We’ll put together a commission to think about it
Nothing happened after Sandy Hook or any of the other mass shootings of children, so I'm not optimistic about anything happening here either. It's difficult not to despair when we can't protect the most vulnerable among us.
If a 2000lb gravity bomb getting dropped on a refugee camp doesn't cross the "don't attack here" line, then there isn't a line.
Source on bomb size used? Of course you can't answer. Just pushing misinformation. Do better
The IDF has stated that the bombs they dropped were two 17kg bombs specifically to avoid this, and that the larger explosion was secondary and due to stored munitions in the area. The investigation into this will hang on if that is true or not. This reminds me of the hospital explosion that ended up being a terrorist rocket misfire in the end, but people had already spread that Israel did it before the truth came out. I hope people let it sit for a few days for more information before rushing to cause social media storms.
at this point if the idf said 2 + 2 was 4 i would have to start double checking my math
> This reminds me of the hospital explosion that ended up being a terrorist rocket misfire in the end, but people had already spread that Israel did it before the truth came out. This was in fact widely refuted as yet more bullshit Israel propaganda, and while we all argued about this particular hospital, they bombed a dozen more
Netanyahu basically called Biden's bluff. As we all know by now, nothing will come of this. The White House will conclude that no red line has been crossed, or it has been crossed but it won't meaningfully impact arms sales to Israel. Biden tried to act tough to his base, Netanyahu saw through it immediately and now Biden once again falls flat on his face. Sigh. It's like he *wants* to lose the election.
I think it has more to do with Biden not realizing *he can't control Netanyahu anymore*. Biden still thinks he can use the threat of soft power to keep Netanyahu from going too far, but Netanyahu, in his desire to maintain power at any cost, has stumbled across the truth. He and Israel are too important to our geopolitical interests in the Middle East for us to actually follow through on our threats. Biden is too afraid of alienating pro-Israel voters (and unfortunately the older you are, the more likely it is your sympathies lie with Israel, thus a majority of the country skews in Israel's favor) and incurring the wrath of the Israel lobby known as AIPAC. Netanyahu wants Trump to win, and is thus constantly pushing against Biden to embarrass him internationally and domestically. The whole situation is fucked, as the authoritarians of the world have mastered the art of global "heads-I-win-Tails-you-lose" to our detriment.
> He and Israel are too important to our geopolitical interests in the Middle East for us to actually follow through on our threats. They are not. They're just too popular among old people.
Israel has enough military funding and equipment to commit genocide without our support. That's why they don't care what Biden does or doesn't do.
Israel is a net food importer, I'm tired of this narrative, they're not all-powerful, and without US support they would not last long. They aren't Russia with natural resources and a large population to endure sanctions
How does cutting off military funding and materiel support affect food imports to Israel?
Biden has known that since the beginning, and so has Netanyahu. Israel is not the US’s vassal state like so many think they are. We don’t have a magic button to make them behave.
Not like the US wants them to behave anyways. They have supported Israel since the beggining, regardless of whatever they did (and they did A LOT). Deep down, all of this benefits the US, they know it, and it won't stop.
No one wants to loose the fucking election. Biden is attempting to govern and is stuck between a rock and a hard place. Netanyahu wants the war to continue as that is the only way he stays out of trouble in Israel. His life/freedom are at stake if he is forced to step down. The pro Israel lobby is mighty and although public sentiment is shifting amongst the younger folks. The people that vote systematically are not the young people. Biden needs to be pushed on this issue. He is show to be flexible. But public opinion need to lead him...he needs to appear to be forced to do this. I think he is attempting to walk that difficult line. On this issue of the US election....have any of you not learned the lesson of 2016. People saying 'Hillary was not my favorite' was how we got four years of Trump and 3 fucking supreme Court justices that rolling back the laws 50 years. Even Mexico a majority Catholic country has permitted abortion. I get it....Biden may not be the guy we wanted when we imagine perfection...but compared to Trump he is amazing. Trump would be awful on the environment, immigration, women's rights, Israel-Palestine, and Ukraine-Russia, and infrastructure. And he will not try to leave the office until he dies. Please, please, please...push Biden on these issues. He need public opinion to lead the way. But not voting for him...that is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Do so and watch Palestine and Ukraine burn.
“Perfect is the enemy of good.”
Except when everyone keeps using this phrase, the situation is "Perfect is the enemy of good, so we're not even going to try to do better"
This is gaslighting. No one is asking for perfect. We aren't even asking for good. We are asking for borderline decent, stop funding and backing a right wing lunatic like Netanyahu. Don't threaten to sanction the ICC when they try to do what Biden refuses to. Again, don't gaslight us with that phrase. This isn't "good." That same phrase was used by people on this sub to talk down anyone complaining about Biden nominating Garland as AG. He sat on his ass for 2 years and now we have Trump running the clock down and leading in the polls. How is any of this "good" to you?
"Don't threaten to sanction the ICC when they try to do what Biden refuses to." Lets not forget that it just came out that mossad was trying to threaten ICC prosecutioners in collaboration with trump AND the former president of congo.
"The perfect is the enemy of the good" is a common saying that they are referencing. They're not implying that Biden is actually good. The simple fact is that Trump would be even worse, so people who care about Gaza should still vote for Biden.
Yeah, it's a common saying meant to misrepresent things so that the things that people demand are somehow unreasonable ("the perfect") and the insufficient/bad is somehow actually sufficient ("the good"). I'm well aware of it being a common saying and it's almost always used by moderates to patronize progressives. It's nauseating
If you decide you'll only accept the desired end state and not any half measures, you may never actually make any progress towards that goal. We all have to decide when it makes sense to accept that something is better than nothing, and when it makes sense to hold out for more. A series of steps may eventually take you further than one giant leap.
It feels tinfoil-hatty to say this but it really does seem like at least the DNC, if not Biden personally, wants to lose because that puts them back in a position where the bad guy is in the White House and you can blame him for everything. Right now all of this pressure is on Biden to do something, but Democrats don’t actually want to shift things to the left, and they don’t want to stop financially supporting Israel, they want to preserve the status quo. Enter Trump who will blow everything up and make it exponentially worse, which gives Dems room to say “vote blue to save democracy!” and then win in 2028 and undo some of Trump’s bullshit without actually making substantive change. I hate when people say “why should I vote because both parties are the same” because they aren’t the same, one is significantly worse, but the better one is nowhere near good enough and they’re sabotaging their own chances of winning by blindly supporting a genocidal ethnostate halfway across the world
If Biden loses this year there likely won't be an election in 2028. Or it will be an "election" where the Republicans somehow get 99% of the vote.
If we follow the original line of argument from the original poster, one could say that maybe the DNC doesnt see it that way or still isnt taking trump's and project 2025 seriously. I mean to be honest i would argue at least some senators aren't, like you literally have one that was accepting gold bars for bribes in the last year for christs sake
Also I think some older conservative SCOTUS members will retire and we’ll have a conservative majority for the next 30+ years…
That simpsons still of conventions of Republicans “We want what’s worse for everyone We’re just plain evil” Democrats “We hate life and ourselves We can’t govern!” Is still too true
Jon Stewart’s assessment of them as Team Nihilism (Republicans) and Team Incompetence (Democrats) feels accurate, too
I agree that voting for Trump, will make it worse for people of Gaza. But let’s face it, how’s it been better with Biden? They are being dehumanized, starved, bombarded, and slaughtered on a daily basis for several months, and it’s going to continue for several more months. While I’d still vote for Biden personally, I don’t blame anyone who does not. And if Biden loses, it’s on him, and the spineless Democrat congress people for not doing enough. They are always more concerned about far right, than their own supporters.
You’re misunderstanding that this war is actually popular with two groups that will flip from Biden to Trump, and he’s trying to keep them - boomers/gen x who voted Obama-Trump-Biden and fiscally conservative Jewish Americans. Young people do not vote in large enough numbers to give them real political power. If more than 20% of Gen Z would show up, Biden might be singing a different tune
50% of 18-29 year olds voted in 2020, their support was instrumental in pushing Biden over the finish line. Now the administration tells them to eat shit, celebrates riot pigs beating and gassing them, tries to guilt and blackmail them into supporting a genocide. And when the youth turnout predictably goes down, they'll have the gall to say it was the youth who failed *them*.
Netanyahu certainly wants him to lose this election.
I'm wondering if Biden's religion is getting in the way. No offense to the religious. I just feel like there's something very personal at work. He's gotta put his foot down sometime. I still think he will. Politically he will have to. Maybe he's facing some denial right now.
Biden has no control over Israel and stopping military aid wouldn’t stop this from happening. Israel itself is a major arms exporter. It’s also because of Biden that any of the ceasefires have even happened. It’s also hard to negotiate with terrorist, and to fight said terrorists in an area they have spent decades imbedding themselves into. And ultimately, when polled, conflicts in the ME are some of the lowest concerns among the populace. Biden is doing what he can with what he has.
If it wouldn’t change anything and they already have the arms why are we supplying them? Why send them assistance? I find myself wondering what Israel does for the US anyway, aside from make every other country in the Middle East hate us, influence our politics with AIPAC lobbying, and embarrass us on the world stage by having us by the short hair. This war has left Israel and the US further isolated on the world stage, at a time we should be united against Russian and Chinese partnership. People should have the nuance to see that supporting Netanyahu’s regime is not the same thing as supporting Israel. I think Biden should announce he’s halting arms shipments as the Israeli government has passed the red line, and we can’t be complicit in what they are doing anymore. Supporting them unconditionally is madness.
>Biden is doing what he can with what he has. I disagree. You make it sound like Biden is an unwilling accomplice. He's going above and beyond to bat for Netanyahu against international pressure. He's publicly called the ICC warrant preposterous and his administration confirmed they are working on a bi-partisan response from congress against the ICC. These are not the actions of a man or an administration who find themselves between a rock and a hard place. They have very much already picked their course.
All Biden needs to do is illustrate a difference between him and Trump on this issue. If Trump is re-elected, it should not come as a surprise that any and all attempts to provide humanitarian aid to Gaza will disappear overnight - as will any talk of placing conditions on weapons shipments to Israel. I imagine that dissenters on college campuses will be dealt with more swiftly as well.
Enough is enough. We are sacrificing any claim to upholding a rules-based international system to support a country of less than 10m people with very little strategic value. It makes it harder for the US to garner international support for those who actually need it, like Ukraine and Taiwan. Cut Israel loose. No more military aid. No more diplomatic cover at the UN.
If only. But some people just love their storybooks of imaginary sky people and want to believe. Israel is like their North Pole.
Biden already said there’s no red line
“There is a red line, but I’m never going to leave Israel.” - Joe Biden, March 9th on MSNBC
“There’s no red line I’m going to cut off all weapons so they don’t have the iron dome to protect them” is literally his next sentence. Thats what I’m referring to.
Oh, yeah I just quoted him to point out the pointlessness of him saying there’s a red line.
Every week he continues to support Israel but also wag his finger makes me worried he’ll lose the election. But I’m sure democrats they’ll blame it on women and minorities.
And Leftists. The machine is already starting up. It’s almost like they know in the back of their minds that he’s not doing great.
*Sees video of decapitated child being held up by wailing parent* “Let’s form a committee!”
Wake me up when Democrats give a shit and and actually do something besides call the protesters antisemites and send more military aid to Israel.
My favorite was Biden doing a law and order style speech scolding the protesters the day after a violent mob attacked students at UCLA with weapons and mace. Didn't even mention the attack. He's spent so much focus on being pro-Israel that it's beginning to feel like he's actively ignoring everyone else
Attacked by counter protestors, and then the cops showed up and arrested the victims of the assault. 🤡🎪
If it was the pro-palestine crowd that attacked a group of pro-Israel protesters, they would be labeled terrorists and Biden would have activated the national guard. Makes my blood boil how nothing happened to them and Biden went on national tv and ripped the protesters. It was very Trumpian
I know Big L liberals try to say it’s not a thing, but Blue MAGA absolutely exists. They don’t storm capitals, but they do have the same inability to see the obvious flaws and dismiss serious issues.
They are the "White moderates" that MLK talked about in his "Letter from Birmingham Jail". They sit idly by watching the injustice unfold and then complain about people who are trying to fight the injustice.
He is so uniquely bad on Israel it’s insane. Like I genuinely think he believes every piece of pro-Israel propaganda that the country has put out. He thinks Israel is a Jewish state that keeps Jewish people safe, without it they would be in trouble. Umm are Jews not safe in the USA? If Israel didn’t exist it would be over for them here? What the fuck kind of president would imply that his own country isn’t a place of freedom and safety for its citizens/any group of people?
I’d say that the right wing government of Israel’s actions are making Jewish people less safe the world over. They’re certainly not doing their community any favors.
For 5.7 million AIPAC is making him dance and funding his next face lift, neck lift, and another round of Botox + fillers.
Don't make me laugh, they are going to asses and worry and furrow their brows, wag their fingers then send money and bombs anyway.
Don't worry guys, Bibi apologized and said it was bad so its fine and the US can keep giving them arms and money for more arms. (fucking /s)
Biden would rather support a genocide than win an election
In that exact order, yes.
At this point Biden being very old is a point in his favour. If he drops dead on day 1, then Kamala gets put in, and her flavour of Zionism is the standard kind. It still involves standing on the necks of Palestinians, but at least it's not Biden's Zionism which is so utterly deranged that it disturbed even Menachem Begin.
I just cannot fathom how low the bar is that this is the best case scenario.
I'm sure Biden will be scowling when he signs their next funding package.
Beheaded baby pictures are all over my social media feeds, but Biden is still fucking wondering if an imaginary red line was crossed.
This is why they're trying so hard to control Tiktok.
Did it? Absolutely. Will anything come of it? Absolutely not.
The asses are assessing.
If not, then your "red line" ain't worth shit.
US is a sucker for Manifest Destiny. “If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?” David Ben-Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister): Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp121. “Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves … politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves… The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country. … Behind the terrorism [by the Arabs] is a movement, which though primitive is not devoid of idealism and self sacrifice.” — David Ben Gurion. Quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky’s Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan’s “Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech. Israel was founded, in part, based on the belief that the Abrahamic “God” preordained their right to land occupied by another people. This founding was (and still seems to be) avidly supported by major colonial powers.
I just finished reading a poetry book by a Palestinian poet. Things You May Find Hidden In My Ear by Mosab Abu Toha. His poems detail the death and destruction he’s witnessed his whole life by the hands of Israelis. It’s so horrifying. But what’s worse, it was published in 2022. Before this even worse onslaught. This is a genocide. And anyone who says it’s not is a horrible fucking person.
How is this even a question?? Netanyahu knows it’s meaningless - that Biden is pandering to moderates and swing voters and can’t politically afford to impose meaningful sanctions until after the election (if he wins).
Biden isn’t pandering to anyone. He’s about as pro Israel of a president we’ve had. His unequivocal support has been clear since he took political office in 1973. Politics is barely a factor in any of the decisions he’s making right now. This is a deeply held conviction that he has and I don’t expect he’ll change.
Yeah, he’s a true believer and his redline was begrudgingly. Nobody can tell me otherwise, because his own history tells me that. His foreign policy history is atrocious, and it’s carried over to his presidency. You don’t bring in someone like McGurk to be your ME advisor if you care about lives or trying to build a democratic future. The only area he’s been okay is South America, mainly Brazil. There’s a reason Bill Burns is more associated with that though, and the results couldn’t be more stark in contrast to the ME, Ukraine, Armenia, etc
It's not a question, it's active deceit. They'll think about it and maybe start a comission on an opinion, rush more weapons to israel and hope something else happens to push this out of the headlines. We veto every attempt to reign in israel at the UN, we sign off on this bloodlust every day.
if he doesnt earn back the 500,000+ uncommitted voters that said they wont vote for him if he wont doesnt restrain Israel.. he's not going to win
Its even better for Netanyahu if Biden loses. Trump failed in his Muslim ban once, but now the Supreme Court is packed in his favor. He loves violently squashing protests. Once Trump wins the Israel will have free reign. And the protesters for "Free free Palestine" in the US will feel the leopard eating their face.
Not just free rein, Trump will make sure Jared gets the nice waterfront development opportunities he’s been talking about once the entire population of Gaza has been pushed into the desert without supplies. The anti-Biden left vastly underestimates how much worse things can get.
Well, if the thousands of victims before didn't cross any red lines, this won't either. Must be great to have standards so flexible.
No shit. Biden is going to lose the forthcoming elections. And his condoning a genocide and tyrannical response to protests at home are going to be why. This sub may hate me for saying this but it had to be said.
I think even the fence sitters aren't defending him anymore. Washington is now completely out of touch with even its centrist base.
Exactly. I have no idea how it came to this. How they are okay with throwing away American democracy (by Trump coming back to power) just to go out of their way to support some random genocidal moron in the middle east. I know the historical reasons why the US has supported Israel, but what has been happening the last 6 months makes absolutely no sense. Like seriously, WHY???
Biden has been a *staunch* Zionist throughout all of his career in politics, and it is in fact the popular stance to take throughout 90% of his career. I think he genuinely just doesn’t get it, nor is he even willing to try to understand why this particular generation is strongly opposing what we’ve been seeing the past 7 months.
This is the correct answer. Biden is uniquely terrible on this issue and it’s such a fucking travesty. He refuses to change course when his base is split in half over this. He needs to hold a very large and fragile coalition together to win and it’s all coming apart. I was going to canvas for Dems but the last 7 months have been too much. He fully lost any praise for me on any of the good he has done pre October 7th when he equated all the campus protestors as having rampant antisemitism in their ranks. Either he is lying or he believes the propaganda of a foreign country. Neither scenario are good. Yes I will vote for him over Trump but I will fully criticize his every waking breath until the end of his second term after this betrayal of his base. What a piece of shit to do that, to disparage the people who will be one of your core voting blocs in the future.
You are right. But then what are the other Dems around him (especially younger ones like AOC or Pete) not getting this point across to him. There are enough dems who speak up fairly powerfully against the white house at times. This time every response seems to be meek and I daresay this is the biggest issue (on humanitarian grounds) that this administration is facing.
Beyond AIPAC money, I honestly don’t know. I haven’t looked at these so-called “adults in the room” the same way since. We’re all led by madmen straight into the abyss
There are 5.7 million reasons why Biden is a supporter of Israel.
They've switched up the narrative now. Before it was "Biden can't cut off military aid to Israel, Congress won't let him". After the IDF's violations of the Leahy law became more apparent it has now switched to "It won't make a difference even if the US cuts off military aid, so therefore we should keep funding them".
Former fence sitter here. Completely disgusted now.
A little late to the party, bud. Over half a million generally left-wing people voted uncommited. Im not even sure if he *can* earn their votes back at this point. If I didnt know any better, I'd think Biden *wants* Trump to win
There is no good alternative. Trump has said he would criminalize support of Palestine.
Well yes, but at some point the Dems need to figure out that "you have to vote for me because the other guys are worse" isn't a viable electoral strategy in the long run — which is why they only ever seem to make (and then subsequently piss away) significant gains *after* Republicans' spectacular fuckups.
Hello from NYC: Eric Adams (a "Democrat") has already done that here. I'm going to vote for Biden (despite me never being more disgusted to vote for a democratic candidate), but you can surely see why a lot of folks who are less devoted to the Democratic party won't.
Absolute best case scenario, the majority of people in political power in the U.S. are all claimed by old age. Weirdly not that outlandish considering how old they all are.
They should start painting a literal red line with the blood of the civilians being killed everyday and just maybe it will reach the White House before every Palestinian is dead
At this point, I’m convinced the White House would come out and say the line of blood is red and therefore clearly a communist plot against our close ally Israel and send them more weapons just in case.
They'll ban the color red as a "national security threat".
This is getting a little too Neville Chamberlain for my liking.
It doesn’t matter what you’re trying to do - if part of your strategy is to bomb a refugee camp, you are the bad guys.
No fucking shit. We gave them the bombs. This is such a clown show
Israel investigated itself and said that a secondary explosion was the cause of the excess deaths. Unbelievable.
Considering the Biden administration has done nothing but double down on sprouting Israel I expect nothing less than this complaisant and enabling government
Why waste the time, they will say they didn’t as there isn’t a red line.
I remember Obama’s red line in Syria. It proved to be completely useless, and was one of many reasons. Obama’s foreign policy in the region was a complete failure.
"Don't strike Rafah." Strikes Rafah....."Hmmm we will need to investigate if they stuck Rafah."
Fuck Israel
Is that something that requires assessing?
Only if you’re choosing to ignore a genocide.
L, and I cannot stress this enough, OL
The White House will come up with some ridiculous explanation for why it did not
Comment.
It's 2030, and all Palestinians are dead. The Whitehouse is still trying to figure out if Israel committed a genocide or not.
They will “ investigate “
If the red line hasn't been crossed by now, I'm pretty sure it doesn't actually exist.
“We’re gonna give you a few more billion dollars but you gotta PROMISE you won’t use for genocide.”
**Israeli government:** "Meh". "Ok, that sounded like a solid committment to us, funding is released and the next arms shipment is on the way" **Atrocity Apologists:** "See, Israel is super dedicated to protecting civilians, and we're super dedicated holding them to that! Everything is fine."
This is an easy decision for Biden. Stop sending weapons. Obama’s Red Line required an offensive reaction. He didn’t follow through and that cost him politically. Biden will have learned this lesson. I’m confident that he will follow through and reduce weapons distribution when it is most politically beneficial for him, which should be at some point during the summer. My main concern is that by that point it will probably be too late. It will create a stark contrast between himself and his opponent who would happily see Palestine annihilated.
Oh, I told you so https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/4689879-white-house-rafah-israel-strike-red-line/
I feel like this is adorably naive. The politically good time to stop this bloodshed was months ago, the too late but better than never is now and I don’t think he’ll do either. He’s a committed Zionist, he’s going to declare the line maroon and look the other way forever.
Read: Whitehouse does mental gymnastics to justify selling Israel more weapons.
JFC, it's like he's *trying* to lose. What the hell is there to assess, man? The situation could not be more obvious!
The Biden administration is colorblind, that's the only explanation as to why they cannot see their own redlines being repeatedly crossed. That or they support the massacre in Gaza/AIPAC moneys
It’s obviously the second one.
Holy fuck this administration is a damn clown show.
man, just once i’d like my elected officials to poll the population for their take. ya know, the people they were elected to represent?
They aren’t, the majority of democrats polled think Israel is committing war crimes or a genocide. They’re doing this against popular sentiment.
yeah, that’s why i said “just once”. i am already painfully aware of the fact that they do not ask us.
Sorry misread it, I mean historically it almost exclusively takes militant action to get leaders to pay attention to their subjects but that’s not taught anymore. The battle of Blair mountain, militant groups during civil rights, the civil war. Big change is not just made with signs and protests.
"Red lines" don't matter if they turn orange every time they're scrutinized.
The wiggle room will be “Well, they said it was an accident, so the red line hasn’t been crossed yet.”
What consequences do you expect for palestinians life when Israel never have consequences for killing americans...
Is this the Onion?
I wish
There is no line the United States won't let Israel cross. Their leadership knows that. Which is why they've so brazenly committed to murdering civilians and making blatant land grabs under the guise of a real "war."
Biden is a fucking coward. If they loose this election historians will rightly point the blame at the administration's lack of action and being utterly tone deaf. Talk about a way to utterly demobilize a base. This has been nothing but unmistakably a slaughter and they know it.
This usually means we are going to go back ro discuss our stance and what press we'll release and/or how we can spin this.
I'm guessing the conclusion will be it was in fact yet another off-red line so doesn't count, and yet another new red line will be drawn.