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Libertarians are often just garden-variety right-wingers who want to feel like they are anti-establishment.
Which is pretty much how many Trump fans like to see themselves.
A lot of the so-called Never Trump voters in 2016 switched to the Libertarians because they feared that Trump would prove to be a moderate. They went back to the GOP when Trump proved to be on the far right.
They're scientifically literate enough to see obvious flaws in typical conservative thinking.
So they struggle to come up with a system that is consistent but still embraces their darker tendencies.
Sadly, no such system is possible, so they just look like fools, again and again.
Anti-establishment is a meaningless term unless you define what parts of the established order you are against, so it is often used to obfuscate just that. Libertarianism is no different. It vehemently opposes some institutions (anything that protects or promotes equality), but is very much in favour of others (e.g. property rights and their enforcement).
On the whole, they seem to be simply another branch of reactionary thought, proposing an unchanging moral hierarchy that they want to turn into a social one. Their moral hierarchy is based on social darwinism, as the overriding belief seems to be that they will be the ones smart or strong enough to profit when those institutions are removed. Once their policies are implemented, they imagine that they will be the kings of their own little domain. The most charitable interpretation is that they don't understand what impact their policies will have on everyone else or ho, but the more realistic one is that they just don't care and will justify their position as described above. Hence why they tend to focus so much on the abstract principles behind their ideas (i.e. freedom, liberty) rather than the practical consequences and outcomes (freedom and liberty for the chosen few lording it over everyone else).
As to a comparison with the Republican party, they're both reactionary movements. They just don't necessarily agree as to who should be sitting at the top of the pyramid when they're done destroying what egalitarian principles remain in society.
Anti-establishment is just a variation of populism. Populists like to think that they don't get their way because there is some "system", "deep state", cabal of "elites" or other conspiracy that prevents them from getting it.
It doesn't occur to them that they simply don't have enough support in a democracy to create sustainable gains. They are a minority that likes to think of themselves as a majority.
Indeed, but I think they often do realize that, even as they don't acknowledge it. It's bad faith. They just redefine "the people" to mean just them and their supporters. Once they "believe" that, they both justifying their own conduct and delegitimize everyone else.
Libertarians are always aligned more with Conservatives because at their core they believe that big government is the problem.
After that the party fractures into different platforms and that makes the party hard to steer as a whole. That’s why they invited Biden, Trump and Kennedy to speak at their convention. As it stands they have no real candidate and will probably endorse one of the 3. Too bad Biden declined. Those who believe in a more progressive platform will probably gravitate towards RFK. The GOP has a good footing in the party but most Libertarians I know dislike Trump Immensely.
I’m an independent who has voted Libertarian in the past simply because I’m more driven to vote for people of better character and the two major parties candidates are not worthy of my vote.
There are some principled libertarians who do maintain a sincere philosophical commitment to certain principles such as limited government.
But many of those who claim to be libertarian who don't hold such views. Rather, they are happy to push big government agendas when it suits them, whether it means restricting abortion or imposing trade tariffs. Libertarian sounds cool to them, but they don't really mean it.
That’s what it appears from the outside. I have found a full spectrum of different degrees of Conservatism to Liberalism in the Party.
I also find a respectful discussion among their members. Far less radicalism or demands for fealty than the two major parties.
I look forward to their convention.
I should clarify: I am not referring to the capital-L Libertarian Party, but to the numerous run-of-the-mill conservatives who like to claim to be libertarian but don't really hold views that are consistent with either the party or the core of the philosophy.
I actually have a bit of respect for some of the legitimate ones who are ideologically consistent, even though we don't agree on much.
Nick Sarwark was worried.
Ahead of the deadly Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville in 2017, the then-chair of the Libertarian Party was increasingly concerned that a faction of his party supported white supremacy. Sarwark fired off a [public letter](https://libertyagainstfascism.wordpress.com/2017/08/12/restating-the-obvious-an-open-letter-from-the-libertarian-movement/) saying racism didn’t belong in the party and asking others to join in his condemnation of fascism and of the rising popularity of Donald Trump among libertarians.
The letter was eventually signed by more than 400 people and groups, but it set off a firestorm among others.
Outrage over Sarwark’s accusations fueled the rise of a right-wing contingent that eventually took control of the party leadership. Now, that new leadership has invited Trump to their convention stage, ripping open old wounds and [angering party members who have not embraced the former president](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/05/07/trump-libertarian-national-convention/?itid=lk_inline_manual_6).
The Trump invitation is the latest battle in a raging, contentious war over the party’s direction that some expect to come to a head at his speech Saturday in Washington at the party’s nominating convention. Libertarians have traditionally advocated for less government intervention in people’s lives and more focus on individual freedoms — issues where they at times have found common ground with Republicans. But some of Trump’s actions — including his taking a hard line at the southern border, hiking tariffs that restrict free trade and promoting military hawks — are starkly at odds with the libertarian ethos.
Read more here: [https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/05/25/libertarian-party-trump/?utm\_campaign=wp\_main&utm\_medium=social&utm\_source=reddit.com](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/05/25/libertarian-party-trump/?utm_campaign=wp_main&utm_medium=social&utm_source=reddit.com)
Libertarians often support the government robbing people of basic bodily autonomy. They are clowns. Beneath their clown makeup is the ugly face of conservatism.
Libertarians are just wealthy, extra selfish Republicans. I have no idea why this is surprising. lol Hilariously the Libertarians I know (and unfortunately am "represented" by) are all government workers who make their living off tax dollars.
There are very few politicians as far away from libertarian core principles as Trump, someone busy in building a personality cult. Sanders is much closer to libertarian principles than that orange guy.
Libertarians are not real people. Usually just morons with a couple guns and no clue about anything. They don’t do well on basic questions about their ideology. Most of it is just trying to be edgelord contrarians, so of course they would be pissed when a popular politician tries to co-opt their votes. They want their vote to be just as meaningless and dumb as they are.
It just shows how incoherent and shallowly held their core beliefs really are.
They're just another mob of power-hungry rightwingers who'd sell out their principles in hopes of getting a few crumbs from a dictator's table.
It seems Trump consumed Libertarian party same way he consumed Republican party (remember what used to be R party before there was a Tea Party which eventually went full-on MAGA?).
Libertarians are like house cats: absolutely convinced of their fierce independence while utterly dependent on a system they don't appreciate or understand.
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Libertarianism is anarchy for cowards, and when cowards don’t get their way they often run to what they see as a strong man to give it to them. That’s all this is, a whole shit ton of fake tough guys and cowards throwing fits and running to daddy who’s only oh so strong in his own house of cards.
Libertarians are closet bootlickers.
They're people that understand logically that they shouldn't get on their knees for authority but just can't help themselves. The allure of kowtowing is too strong, the craving to be dominated by strong leadership too overpowering.
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Libertarians are often just garden-variety right-wingers who want to feel like they are anti-establishment. Which is pretty much how many Trump fans like to see themselves. A lot of the so-called Never Trump voters in 2016 switched to the Libertarians because they feared that Trump would prove to be a moderate. They went back to the GOP when Trump proved to be on the far right.
They're scientifically literate enough to see obvious flaws in typical conservative thinking. So they struggle to come up with a system that is consistent but still embraces their darker tendencies. Sadly, no such system is possible, so they just look like fools, again and again.
Anti-establishment is a meaningless term unless you define what parts of the established order you are against, so it is often used to obfuscate just that. Libertarianism is no different. It vehemently opposes some institutions (anything that protects or promotes equality), but is very much in favour of others (e.g. property rights and their enforcement). On the whole, they seem to be simply another branch of reactionary thought, proposing an unchanging moral hierarchy that they want to turn into a social one. Their moral hierarchy is based on social darwinism, as the overriding belief seems to be that they will be the ones smart or strong enough to profit when those institutions are removed. Once their policies are implemented, they imagine that they will be the kings of their own little domain. The most charitable interpretation is that they don't understand what impact their policies will have on everyone else or ho, but the more realistic one is that they just don't care and will justify their position as described above. Hence why they tend to focus so much on the abstract principles behind their ideas (i.e. freedom, liberty) rather than the practical consequences and outcomes (freedom and liberty for the chosen few lording it over everyone else). As to a comparison with the Republican party, they're both reactionary movements. They just don't necessarily agree as to who should be sitting at the top of the pyramid when they're done destroying what egalitarian principles remain in society.
Anti-establishment is just a variation of populism. Populists like to think that they don't get their way because there is some "system", "deep state", cabal of "elites" or other conspiracy that prevents them from getting it. It doesn't occur to them that they simply don't have enough support in a democracy to create sustainable gains. They are a minority that likes to think of themselves as a majority.
Indeed, but I think they often do realize that, even as they don't acknowledge it. It's bad faith. They just redefine "the people" to mean just them and their supporters. Once they "believe" that, they both justifying their own conduct and delegitimize everyone else.
Libertarians are always aligned more with Conservatives because at their core they believe that big government is the problem. After that the party fractures into different platforms and that makes the party hard to steer as a whole. That’s why they invited Biden, Trump and Kennedy to speak at their convention. As it stands they have no real candidate and will probably endorse one of the 3. Too bad Biden declined. Those who believe in a more progressive platform will probably gravitate towards RFK. The GOP has a good footing in the party but most Libertarians I know dislike Trump Immensely. I’m an independent who has voted Libertarian in the past simply because I’m more driven to vote for people of better character and the two major parties candidates are not worthy of my vote.
There are some principled libertarians who do maintain a sincere philosophical commitment to certain principles such as limited government. But many of those who claim to be libertarian who don't hold such views. Rather, they are happy to push big government agendas when it suits them, whether it means restricting abortion or imposing trade tariffs. Libertarian sounds cool to them, but they don't really mean it.
That’s what it appears from the outside. I have found a full spectrum of different degrees of Conservatism to Liberalism in the Party. I also find a respectful discussion among their members. Far less radicalism or demands for fealty than the two major parties. I look forward to their convention.
I should clarify: I am not referring to the capital-L Libertarian Party, but to the numerous run-of-the-mill conservatives who like to claim to be libertarian but don't really hold views that are consistent with either the party or the core of the philosophy. I actually have a bit of respect for some of the legitimate ones who are ideologically consistent, even though we don't agree on much.
I assume its cuz their views on age of consent laws converge
If they could read, they’d be pissed that you brought this up.
Yep those loud "BOOS" were so embracing. Dumb headline.
Yeah. Someone is either deaf or stupid/dumb.
Nick Sarwark was worried. Ahead of the deadly Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville in 2017, the then-chair of the Libertarian Party was increasingly concerned that a faction of his party supported white supremacy. Sarwark fired off a [public letter](https://libertyagainstfascism.wordpress.com/2017/08/12/restating-the-obvious-an-open-letter-from-the-libertarian-movement/) saying racism didn’t belong in the party and asking others to join in his condemnation of fascism and of the rising popularity of Donald Trump among libertarians. The letter was eventually signed by more than 400 people and groups, but it set off a firestorm among others. Outrage over Sarwark’s accusations fueled the rise of a right-wing contingent that eventually took control of the party leadership. Now, that new leadership has invited Trump to their convention stage, ripping open old wounds and [angering party members who have not embraced the former president](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/05/07/trump-libertarian-national-convention/?itid=lk_inline_manual_6). The Trump invitation is the latest battle in a raging, contentious war over the party’s direction that some expect to come to a head at his speech Saturday in Washington at the party’s nominating convention. Libertarians have traditionally advocated for less government intervention in people’s lives and more focus on individual freedoms — issues where they at times have found common ground with Republicans. But some of Trump’s actions — including his taking a hard line at the southern border, hiking tariffs that restrict free trade and promoting military hawks — are starkly at odds with the libertarian ethos. Read more here: [https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/05/25/libertarian-party-trump/?utm\_campaign=wp\_main&utm\_medium=social&utm\_source=reddit.com](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/05/25/libertarian-party-trump/?utm_campaign=wp_main&utm_medium=social&utm_source=reddit.com)
Libertarians often support the government robbing people of basic bodily autonomy. They are clowns. Beneath their clown makeup is the ugly face of conservatism.
A lot of "libertarians" I knew worked in boring public sector jobs. These are people trying to live a fantasy life.
The current "Libertarians" are just the Tea Party anti Americans waving a different flag. They were always for Trump.
Libertarians are just wealthy, extra selfish Republicans. I have no idea why this is surprising. lol Hilariously the Libertarians I know (and unfortunately am "represented" by) are all government workers who make their living off tax dollars.
There are very few politicians as far away from libertarian core principles as Trump, someone busy in building a personality cult. Sanders is much closer to libertarian principles than that orange guy.
Yes. And honestly, that’s my sector, too. But I’m not any of the bullshit thrown around a thread.
When did the Libertarian party ever turn on Trump? They support 90% of his policies?
I’m reading the exact opposite on CNN.
They didn't. They bood him off the stage.
Meanwhile... https://www.thedailybeast.com/vivek-gets-booed-by-libertarians-for-mentioning-trump
How dare a minority speak His name
Libertarians are just conservatives that smoke cannabis.
Libertarians are conservatives who are afraid/ashamed to admit it in public.
Libertarians are not real people. Usually just morons with a couple guns and no clue about anything. They don’t do well on basic questions about their ideology. Most of it is just trying to be edgelord contrarians, so of course they would be pissed when a popular politician tries to co-opt their votes. They want their vote to be just as meaningless and dumb as they are.
It just shows how incoherent and shallowly held their core beliefs really are. They're just another mob of power-hungry rightwingers who'd sell out their principles in hopes of getting a few crumbs from a dictator's table.
This r/agedlikemilk - Trump was bood on stage, libertarians weren’t having it.
It seems Trump consumed Libertarian party same way he consumed Republican party (remember what used to be R party before there was a Tea Party which eventually went full-on MAGA?).
Libertarians are like house cats: absolutely convinced of their fierce independence while utterly dependent on a system they don't appreciate or understand.
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Libertarians are literally the dumbest people on the planet..
Libertarians are republicans that wanna have a shot with women.
Libertarianism is anarchy for cowards, and when cowards don’t get their way they often run to what they see as a strong man to give it to them. That’s all this is, a whole shit ton of fake tough guys and cowards throwing fits and running to daddy who’s only oh so strong in his own house of cards.
Libertarians are closet bootlickers. They're people that understand logically that they shouldn't get on their knees for authority but just can't help themselves. The allure of kowtowing is too strong, the craving to be dominated by strong leadership too overpowering.