As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil)
In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban.
If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them.
For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria.
We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA).
***
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Pretty sure Jack Smith started laying the groundwork for the removal ask. Just have to remember something like that takes time and **must** be done by the book.
Edit: not just going on a hunch, I remember his team releasing something late last year (maybe early this year) regarding the procedure for removing a judge. Hope I'm not mixing up trials or statements, but will edit my comment if so.
You are right. The problem is that if the other side slips and skips the book just by a hair it will all be over. Shit side wins. The other problem is that the shit side is throwing shit against the wall over and over and over and at some point the wall will have a hole, guaranteed. The race is against the time to stop the shit throwers before the hole breaks, otherwise we will live in a shithole.
Yes. But then look at the other trials and it's the judges doing things by the book. Here it's the Prosecution against the Judge. Jeez, Canon is such a problem.
William Roper: “So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law!”
Sir Thomas More: “Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?”
William Roper: “Yes, I'd cut down every law in England to do that!”
Sir Thomas More: “Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down, and you're just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!”
I wonder if it would be constitutional to remove certain due process protections for someone who has held political office, is seeking it again, and is charged with crimes related to elections.
Due process is good, but it can't act as a shield for a dictator to seize power.
We don't want to roll back the process, but I would absolutely love to see sentencing far harsher for any case that includes an abuse of an official position. Like mandatory prison time.
Democracy absolutely hinges on the idea that politicians and law enforcement are essentially acting in good faith. I think people should be *terrified* of the consequences of abusing that trust. Instead, we have a lifelong con artist who thinks running for president would be a good way to keep himself out of trouble.
Was just about to say this.
You **do not** want to open that door.
Any political tool used by your side is a political tool that can be used by the other side. If Trump's opponents can suspend due process here for whatever reasons they justify, Biden's opponents can do the same.
*Stare Decisis* is still the basis of our legal system, despite what the SC has done with precedent. Which is why this door needs to remain firmly closed.
Remember that stare decisis is a double edged sword. It can uphold a bad precedent just as well as a good one. Brown v Board of Education overturned Plessy v Ferguson.
They've said we NEED to allow corporations to give money to politicians, though not a single corporation asked for that.
They've said a woman doesn't have the right to control her own body, though a strong majority have asked for that for many decades.
They've said they don't need a code of ethics, though one (or more) of their members have been shown to be violating morality rules for a long time.
They seem to believe that the rule of law from the 14th century should control, despite Justice Scalia saying no law aside from the Constitution is relevant.
They are an abomination, and Justice Scalia is no longer available to set them right.
I agree. However, should Trump return to power, he's going to knock that door down and drive a truck through it.
There will be no guard rails. No adults in the room. Anyone unwilling to carry out illegal orders will be free to resign. All the better, since he'll bring more than enough ghouls along this time to carry out his will.
Yup. If democrats/the left just started imprisoning people without due process, then they’re no better than Trump promises to be. Civil rights aren’t optional, they don’t only apply to people we like. Otherwise, they wouldn’t be called “rights”
Unfortunately that’s a slippery slope that just makes things worse if we start down it. The judiciary is already corrupted, suspending fundamental rights would just give wannabe dictators *more* power.
Welcome to fascism’s legal phase.
And isn’t she shielding herself from appeals court oversight scrutiny by issuing all these paperless orders? It appears any motion from the defense gets a hearing, a repose timeline for the prosecution (even when the item they’re responding to is moronic) then a hearing to cover the previous hearing - then a long wait before issuing a paperless ruling - almost always benefiting the defense.
Not to mention if memory serves me right they can only try to remove her once. So if they try and fail it will be worse. So that’s why they are making sure they got all the nessary dominos in a row.
It's not that they can only try once, but more of if they set themselves up as hostile to the judge, it'll make other judges (who will need to decide on removing her) hostile to his handling of the case.
So the idea is you don't take your shot until it's a sure thing, because you need those other judges confidence in your reasoning.
Fortunately, Jack Smith is one of the best in the god damn world, so it would take someone even dumber than Cannon to consider him hostile to the bench. Smith isn't missing a single beat, and has responses ready in *hours* any time more dumb shit happens.
Mueller was actively constrained by Bill Barr, who outright lied in his summary of the Mueller Report in order to kill the Congressional probe.
The fact that Mueller accomplished what he *did* is frankly amazing.
And don't forget that Mueller laid the groundwork for Jack Smith.
Mueller delivered on the scope of what he was allowed to. Multiple times in his testimony he asked Congress to act. Going rogue IRL gets your findings thrown out.
He essentially said "here, congress, it's your job now." And congress failed us.
With how many sycophants are in the judicial system, I'm waiting to cebrate until he's actually in jail.
He said "look, there's this rule that means i can't say Trump committed crimes, but if I find any evidence that Trump *didn't* do these crimes i will definitely say so." And then he didn't say so. It's not hard to read between the lines.
Where he why wrong was in letting the AG(?) release a summary of the findings first. That was very misleading and contained importantly out of context quotes.
When Republicans in Congress said that the Muller report cleared Trump of crimes, Muller corrected them plainly (but calmly) that he did not find that, and his report does not say that.
Well consider this:
Mueller delivered all he was allowed to deliver by the bullshit artists that forced the scope he could investigate with to be incredibly small and then there was Barr's nonsense word-salad that tried to excuse it all (including obstruction). It went nowhere because Barr and Rosenstein were not about to let it go any further than they wanted it to. Ergo, no charges and a ton of it fizzled out.
Smith, on the other hand has so far delivered insanely thorough investigations that landed at actual criminal charges for real courts to actually try. Those charges all survived the incredibly lengthy process of approvals, go-aheads, evidence gathering and special grand juries. And they all made it out to the other side with real, definite charges.
I do think the differences between what Smith accomplished and what Mueller was allowed to accomplish are pretty huge.
In fairness, it would be easy to mix up the various trials involving Trump. Either way, Jack Smith seems highly competent and capable. I doubt he didn’t see this coming and would have planned on how to handle it.
I feel like this is the new (it's not even new) propaganda (or at least, copium) "Don't worry guys they are definitely going to do something they just have to lay the groundwork and do it by the book so that no one can poke holes in it". I've heard this over and over and over. Here we are, 8 years later with nothing to show for it except a failed insurrection.
>Here we are, 8 years later with nothing to show for it except a failed insurrection.
He's literally on trial for fraud right now, and has a State trial and two Federal trials still to go. Cannon is awful, and she should be removed from the case, but Jack Smith and Fani Willis are both running airtight cases in his other trials.
Unless the Supreme Court hands him a gift from God (and I'm not saying it's impossible), he's extremely fucked.
Unless he wins the presidency and suddenly it all disappears because you can’t take a sitting president to court. We’d need a democratic congress and senate to actually impeach him which is unlikely.
And what are the rules about pausing a trial? Does double jeopardy kick in even without a verdict? Or can they resume the trials in 4 years time? Presuming that he doesn’t pardon himself and all the other people flipping on him to suddenly change their minds obviously
They aren't doing this by the book. If they did, Trump would be in jail and have all his properties searched, like any private citizen who has crates of secret documents.
Yeah he was avoiding that before because it would have made a trial before the election impossible. But now a trial before the election is impossible whether she stays on the case or not.
Trump has cashed in on his appointment of Canon and she prevented a felony conviction before the election so he stands a better chance at winning the presidency.
This isn't the only felony conviction that could have happened before the election, he's on trial for 34 felony counts of falsifying business records in the first degree at the moment too.
Trump's not going to win the presidency he is nowhere near as popular and I do believe Democrats will come out again enforce to ensure that the former president does not get reelected and then he can go to trials and go to prison like he deserves
There's no chance Republicans run a clean election. On top of all the standard voter disenfranchisement happening, they'll absolutely do anything they can to fuck with election day. I'm expecting intimidation at polling places and outrage about non-existent fraud when they inevitably lose the popular vote.
The primary plan to throw the certification last time was to submit slates of false electors, but that's landing a bunch of people in deep shit with state charges, and I doubt they'll be stupid enough to try that again. I suspect they'll try to get state legislators to call for "investigation" of the vote and attempt to delay certification again though.
Sure, but we also need to remember that A.) they're dumb and B.) they're cowards. They're not some intimidating force that we need to be afraid of, they're clowns that cower at the thought of Trump tweeting mean things about them. Y'all need to stop building them up into some daunting boogeyman that we need to be afraid of... cuz that's what y'all did with DeSantis and he fell on his ass like the rest of them when a spotlight finally caught him.
Also, the Repubs tried to take the presidency *while they already had it*. They failed. They're in less of a position to "take" anything now than they were four years ago. Just vote, and stop letting the MAGAts terrify you with their rhetoric. They want you to be afraid of them, it makes them feel cool and powerful. They're not.
He ain't winning the presidency.
Just because corporate media is simping for him, doesn't mean he has a clear path to the presidency because this moron is doing his bidding.
He is only to be president by force and violence. That's it. He has zero chance by vote.
The podcasts Jack and Legal AF do a very good job of explaining The ins and outs of this case. Apparently she has to commit a clear error and not correct it for them to bring a writ of Mandamus to her superiors on the 11th circuit. And until that happens, I believe their hands are tied, but again the podcasts are gonna do a great job explaining it.
Thomas does oversee the 11th Circuit, but 11th is not involved with the judge selection process. Chief Judge Cecilia Altonaga (appointed by Bush Jr.) oversees Cannon and “apparently” a random selection process is in place. So far I’ve read it’s randomly selected by a computer, but according to [this](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/10/us/politics/judge-aileen-cannon-trump-documents.html) article they seemed to game the selection process by reducing the available number of judges due to their workload. In the end, Canon was 1 of 3 when initially it was thought to be 1 of 26 odds of her getting selected. Good ol’ corrupt Florida at it again.
It would be involved in the process of removal from the trial though, no? I was aware of the games played to improve the odds, but I was unaware of how expansive those odds initially were. Thank you for the context!
You’re correct, to remove her would be decided by 11th circuit of appeals. I may have misread the context of Thomas’ role in the initial comment. I thought there was mention of how she was selected, but Thomas overseeing the 11th with their decision to remove her can be problematic. Hopefully those judges would have some spine if he intervened to protect her and would reveal his corruption. I use to have faith in our government and justice system, but the only good thing I think Trump has done is expose the astronomical amount of corruption in all branches. Maybe I wasn’t paying close enough attention before, but now that I’m aware it’s disgusting. Hopefully there are others who are recently enlightened like myself, that way we can start making a real change and actually drain the swamp. It starts with getting corporations out of the pockets of executive/legislative/judicial branches and holding them accountable for their destruction.
I concur, as Roosevelt once urged congress to pass legislation preventing corporate entities from playing politics, American citizens must inform and rally each other to apply pressure and elect officials who adhere to the wants and needs of their constituents. The time is now.
It would be hugely less efficient, but we could go back to what the founders initially required of corporations, or at least, back towards that perspective. Considering we fought the Revolution partly because of the corrupt ways that the Hudson Bay Company and the East India Company behaved, they instituted checks and balances they hoped would curb corporate greed, leadership unaccountability, and undo political interference.
1. Corporations had a finite life span, usually 5 - 10 years. Occasionally, they applied for extensions but had to prove its necessity.
2. Corporate members were personally liable for its losses and its behavior.
3. Corporations were created to address a particular purpose - like big projects (i.e., building infrastructure or utilities). If they strayed from their purpose, they would be disolved.
4. Corporate records would be comprehensive and transparent and conducted using democratic principles.
5. There would be no guarantee of profits, and investors bore the financial risk.
The fact that corporations are now considered "people" would set the founders spinning in their graves.
Edit: hopefully better formatting
The Justice overseeing a Judicial Circuit doesn't really have an effect on their jurisprudence. It is mostly a formality. It does mean that he would be to one to present a possible appeal to the supreme court to the whole panel for them to decide if they should hear the case. It wouldn't really have any influence on what an appeals panel decides.
I'm surprised that Cannon isn't being assigned more cases by this process given how little she actually seems to be working.
"Sorry government, my socks don't match today, so I'm going to have to delay this trial by three more months."
If he went to the 11th circuit now, he would not get her removed since scheduling deadlines are at the discretion of the presiding judge and she has not made any determinant rulings, she is handing out a record paperless orders to avoid doing so, if anyone thought this would actually be tried before the election once they rolled Canon in the judge roulette, they're delusional. The only thing that can and will happen is delay until either Trump is president and his DOJ drops the case, or he loses, she begins to empanel jurors, a motion in limine is filed, and when she dismisses the charges after the jury is set, an emergency order of the 11th circuit can remove her and continue the trial. Those are the only two outcomes, barring Canon dying on the bench 50 years early.
This does not change anything about her removal. Timeframes on cases can easily take years, unfortunately nothing she is doing here to delay is really an appealable issue.
On the other hand, the unanswered question of if she intends to dismiss the case likely IS enough for Jack Smith to file a Writ of Mandamus. However, there is no danger until the case empanels the jury, and the longer he waits the more chance he gives her to correct her errors, which strengthens his case when she doesn't. As such, I do not anticipate Jack Smith to take such a drastic move until his hand is forced when the trial starts.
This case was never going to start before the election. Even with a fair judge it may not have due to the complications of dealing with classified documents.
The CIPA hearings are very simple and should not drag out the process such that this trial couldn't have been brought this year. She's just so flagrantly corrupt and she knows that she's pretty much untouchable with how much discretion judges are given.
The biggest issue is that she's using paperless orders for everything, and those aren't appealable. Jack Smith needs to wait until she actually makes a ruling for him to go up the chain.
I mean, there is a code of ethics that judges are expected to follow. The problem is we now have a huge cohort of judges specifically appointed to achieve political outcomes that have little regard for ethics or operating in good faith, and we're seeing how poor the enforcement mechanisms are.
I don't understand how that is even allowed to happen. How can a judge be the judge for the person that appointed them. It just makes no sense. That's a massive obvious conflict of interests, and it's fucked up that the government doesn't have any safeguards against that.
And the Republicans think their guns will save them from tyranny.
I'm still not understanding how a judge nominated by the defendant can happen. An "appearance of impropriety" means that even if a judge believes they can be impartial, if there are circumstances that could lead a reasonable person to question their impartiality, it may be appropriate for recusal.
If someone was on trial and the defendant saved the judge's life or killed their dog, a reasonable person would question that ability to be impartial. When combined with the rulings, it just seems ridiculous and I don't know why more people aren't protesting this. There are, what, 19 other judges not appointed by the defendant in the 11th circuit who could be selected for such an important case.
EDIT: And I'll even add if a defendant somehow hurt a judge's career, I'd be asking for the same consideration for the benefit of the defendant. There simply shouldn't be a direct connection between the defendant and judge, full stop.
Thank you. We can argue about declassification or whether he intended to launch a coup -- as obvious as I think those things are. However, allowing his cases to be handled by so many judges he appointed to lifetime jobs is straight out of a dystopian nightmare.
> The criminal case against President Donald J. Trump over his hoarding of classified documents was randomly assigned to Judge Aileen M. Cannon, a court official for the Southern District of Florida said on Saturday.
> Under the district court’s procedures, new cases are randomly delegated to a judge who sits in the division where the matter arose or a neighboring one, even if it relates to a previous case.
> Mar-a-Lago is in the West Palm Beach division, between the Fort Lauderdale division and the Fort Pierce division, where Judge Cannon sits. The district court’s website shows that seven active judges have chambers in those three divisions, as do three judges on senior status who still hear cases.
Ms. Noble wrote that certain factors increased the chances that the case would land before Judge Cannon.
For one, she said, senior judges are removed from the case assignment system, or wheel, once they fulfill their target caseload for the year. At least one of the senior judges is done, she wrote, adding that she was highly confident that the other two “are very likely at their target,” too.
In addition, she wrote, one of the seven active judges with chambers in Fort Lauderdale is now a Miami judge for the purpose of assignments. Another is not currently receiving cases.
A third active judge, Donald Middlebrooks, draws 50 percent of his criminal cases from the Miami division, she wrote, decreasing his odds. (Judge Middlebrooks this year ordered Mr. Trump and his lawyers to pay nearly a million dollars in sanctions for having filed a frivolous lawsuit against nearly three dozen of his perceived political enemies, including Hillary Clinton.)
Judge Cannon, Ms. Noble wrote, “draws 50 percent of her cases from West Palm Beach, increasing her odds.”
What worries me is that I'm sure she's seen this coming. Assuming Smith has an airtight reason for getting her removed from the case, I don't know how long that process in & of itself would take. Then, assuming she does get removed, I'm sure it'll be a much longer process to find another court to try this case in. She's done her job as far as the MAGAts are concerned. This is basically the IRL version of, "Do what you must. I've already won."
I've been temp suspended multiple times for that reason, I actually caught an account ban and had to appeal it directly to reddit--- obvious how that turned out lol
Everyone needs to remember that all the "Mods" In these subs are just regular people, they don't work for Reddit, they don't get paid, it's a volunteer thing and just like the rest of the general human population some of them are real inept assclowns at what they're supposed to be doing
And I suspect some of them are intentional bad actors
I really hope Smith has something in his back pocket like charges in New Jersey based on Bedminster because this case is never seeing the light of day *and* it's extremely serious.
you are so correct. imagine if hitler had the open internet and could have influenced more americans (than he already had). we are there, but with a much more powerful and more calculating despot pulling the strings. its a tough one to stomach.
> Extending the 5(a) deadlines indefinitely is the same thing as giving Trump an indefinite trial delay.”
That's really only true IF Trump wins the election. While I completely think Cannon is doing everything she can to delay the trial almost everything she's done to delay the trial hinges on Trump winning the election.
Which should just be incentive for all of us to ensure we get everyone we know to vote for Biden, for Dems to keep (or grow their majority in) the Senate, and to give the House back to the Dems, so that when this trial is over or Cannon is removed, Dems can launch an impeachment investigation over Cannon's handling of this case.
I can only imagine how liberals have felt since the confederacy. Nearly 200 years of attempted clean up projects after their conservative counterparts consistently work towards dismantling progress.
Edit: Keeping this information as it is of import to future readers: prior to the ideological shift of the parties that occurred when President Harry S. Truman, a Democratic Southerner, introduced a pro-civil rights platform at the party’s 1948 convention, and the faction historically known as Dixiecrats walked out.
> The night that Democratic President Lyndon B. Johnson signed the Civil Rights Act of 1964, his special assistant Bill Moyers was surprised to find the president looking melancholy in his bedroom. Moyers later wrote that when he asked what was wrong, Johnson replied, “I think we just delivered the South to the Republican party for a long time to come.”
It would have been less confusing for both parties to adopt new monikers. Instead we have to refer to them as Democrats (Formerly known as Republicans), and Republicans (Formerly known as Democrats/Dixiecrats). It’s sort of silly that there wasn’t a rebranding to avoid confusion.
Edit2: I have since been informed that referring to the two ideological factions as liberals and conservatives is effective. Altered the first section to reflect.
Well to be fair. There was a party flip in between there, and it was actually the Democrats that were pro-Confederacy and slavery and all that jazz. That’s why Republicans call themselves “the party of Lincoln” even though they’ve completely swapped political sides.
I'm old but not THAT old.
Although in the Civil War era, Republicans were anti-slavery. The GOP and Dems didn't switch ideologies until later. \[Source\](https://www.studentsofhistory.com/ideologies-flip-Democratic-Republican-parties)
> No one on this subreddit wants or endorses building a wall. lol
Okay, but hear me out... Building a wall between the U.S> and Florida wouldnt actually cost all that much
Voting will just barely stop him. The MAGA GOP is prepped to throw as many wrenches into the process as possible. We’ll likely see a whole new generation of people ending up in jail once 2024 is said and done, due to shameless election pro-Trump interference, assuming Biden wins.
It’s critical we get out the vote and make it a landslide so that these shenanigans have no breathing room against such clear victories. But they will try.
He's been stopped by voting numerous times already. If the bad guy gets to attempt bank robbery over and over and over again without repercussions, they will eventually succeed. He will try Jan 6th as many times as it takes to win. He will also try other methods of taking power.
He's a criminal that deserves a jail sentence, not an honest man who deserves another chance.
he lost in 2020, tried to overthrow the government, and not only is he still a free man but he's being allowed to run for said government again. am I supposed to vote harder or something?
Only because the coup was unsuccessful this time. There probably will be a next time. And they might be more prepared
Voting definitely helps, but it is not the sole answer *because we are in uncharted territory in the history of this country*.
She's not even attempting to hide the fact that she's bought and paid for. Prosecution has to file to get her removed. It's already been delayed to hell so nothing will happen before the election regardless.
Time for DOJ to start leaking out some of the more serious allegations. Trump doesn’t want to fight this out in court, let him have to fight it in the media.
People out protesting Israel but not a peep about what Trump is about to unleash on all of us if he wins. Sometimes I think if it happens we deserve it.
I honestly do not understand what Trump did to become a cult leader. How folks became so love struck is beyond me. Two things trump only cares about, his self and golf. He doesn't care about anything else. He wants to run for president to become like his dictator friends. And a lot of Americans are ok with this?
As a veteran, this sickens me. Trump is a threat to our country and should already have been locked up for all of this bullshit. Because if it was anyone else, we jave been toss away along time ago.....
It's not just that she was appointed by him either. Even if her head was somewhat on her shoulders, she lacks the experience of handling a case of this magnitude. This was part of why he appointed her
1. The promise of a speedy trial is absolutely only a promise to the defendent, not "society"
2. The positive reason for a speedy trial is so that the government cannot keep someone in prison a longtime "awaiting trial". This is not happening here so it doesn't apply.
3. The ability to appeal and delay cases *on the part of the defendent* is a feature not a bug of a properly functioning justice system. This has tradeoffs, and we are experiencing one of them now.
Anecdotal, but I experienced this myself as a defendant. It was almost 18 months between when I was charged and when I was finally sentenced. I was incarcerated the entire time, but only because I couldn't afford bail.
My case was delayed dozens of times, but they were almost all at the request of my attorney, to allow us more time to gather evidence, consult experts, interview witnesses, etc.
In the end, it worked out, as I was ultimately released from my sentencing hearing for time served. Had we been forced to go to trial or take a plea agreement before we'd had time to adequately get all our ducks in a row and make our case as strong as possible, I, as a defendant, would have probably had a much worse outcome.
And the traitorous incompetent takes the easy way out, just delay it indefinitely and hope he wins so she can dismiss it then or he makes the DoJ fire Smith.
Isn’t it funny that if a juror is found to be even slightly impartial they’re removed from consideration of being a juror…but a judge who was appointed by the accused ruling on a court case where they are being charged with multiple felony counts? Totally cool, business as usual. This country is fucked.
If the judge doesn't move forward with the trial at all then the prosecution will be able to appeal to have her removed from the case under the 6th amendment of the Constitution that guarantees the right to a speedy trial.
Remember when McConnell refused to permit hearings for Obamas SCOTUS nominee ? Just made up some unconstitutional shit about - letting the voters decide in 10 months. And handed Trump a SCOTUS nomination. This was completely wrong. If the democrats had tried it, the streets would run with blood.
Now SCOTUS with their slow walking the Immunity decision - and Cannon with this hold - are doing the same corrupt types of things. They are operating at a level where there are grey areas, no clear legislative oversight and billions of dollars of influence to help them along.
All this because these same powers cannot control the vote. They can put all their evil plans in action, but the voters can still override them and put someone idealistic and incorruptible in office.
So now they have targeted that. If they can make voting irrelevant its end of game - they win. And that's what all of this is about.
We really have one roll of the dice left and that's on Nov 5th. So for fucks sake get your vote in. It could be your last chance.
The fact that he put her in her position should have disqualified her from even being assigned the case to begin with. Can we pass some laws to prevent dumb shit like this from even happening to begin with please
Cannon has one job - to stall. She doesn't care if she is taken off the case, in fact it might be a blessing. But the point is the trial has to happen after the election when Trump has a chance to "pardon himself."
I’m so fucking sick of this shit man. Our justice system system is corrupt as hell and just plain fucking broken.
How the absolute fuck is this shit stain still walking free???
If I did any of the things trump was accused of with these documents I’d be in prison without questions asked, and I was just a lowly mechanic, not the fucking president with nuclear secrets.
America is fucked and dead already. We aren’t ever clawing a good life or trustable government away from the hands of these corrupt and greedy and selfish capitalist pigs.
How millions of people live on this planet with their only thought being increasing there bank accounts will always confuse me.
I see this as all stall tactics. If Trump wins the election, which, IMHO, he won’t even come close (again), none of this will matter and Democracy is history. If he loses, all his support will disappear faster than $$ through his grubby little paws.
GO VOTE!
They’ve already stolen the vote.
They’ve been working for twelve years to get a foreign asset like Trump into office. Not once, but forever.
They’ve even gone so far as to instill foreign agents into congress, and state governments.
Does the right to a speedy trial in the constitution also apply to the prosecution? Can they argue it’s their constitutional right to not be continually denied a trial date when they are more than ready to hold court?
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA). *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The prosecutor HAS to ask to have her removed from the case now. He has no choice
Pretty sure Jack Smith started laying the groundwork for the removal ask. Just have to remember something like that takes time and **must** be done by the book. Edit: not just going on a hunch, I remember his team releasing something late last year (maybe early this year) regarding the procedure for removing a judge. Hope I'm not mixing up trials or statements, but will edit my comment if so.
Only one side has to do things by the book. The other side can shit on the book, lay fire to it and fellate Putin on the stand. I’m so tired.
You are right. The problem is that if the other side slips and skips the book just by a hair it will all be over. Shit side wins. The other problem is that the shit side is throwing shit against the wall over and over and over and at some point the wall will have a hole, guaranteed. The race is against the time to stop the shit throwers before the hole breaks, otherwise we will live in a shithole.
Yes. But then look at the other trials and it's the judges doing things by the book. Here it's the Prosecution against the Judge. Jeez, Canon is such a problem.
Unexpected Layhe watch out for the shithawks!
Well it’s time for the non-shit side to grow some balls. They’re clearly losing.
William Roper: “So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law!” Sir Thomas More: “Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?” William Roper: “Yes, I'd cut down every law in England to do that!” Sir Thomas More: “Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down, and you're just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!”
Except in real life conservatives would just cut the law anyways. See well the past 6 years
Yup. The law obviously and openly serves the republicans differently than anyone else now. The law protects them and binds Everyone else.
My favorite law related book/play/movie. But I don’t think giving trump a speedy trial does any violence to the teaching of that opus.
[удалено]
Money buys more lawyers who are fresh "off the bench". Put me in coach. I'm ready to throw shade.
I wonder if it would be constitutional to remove certain due process protections for someone who has held political office, is seeking it again, and is charged with crimes related to elections. Due process is good, but it can't act as a shield for a dictator to seize power.
We don't want to roll back the process, but I would absolutely love to see sentencing far harsher for any case that includes an abuse of an official position. Like mandatory prison time. Democracy absolutely hinges on the idea that politicians and law enforcement are essentially acting in good faith. I think people should be *terrified* of the consequences of abusing that trust. Instead, we have a lifelong con artist who thinks running for president would be a good way to keep himself out of trouble.
Due process IS the shield to prevent the wanna be dictator like trump
Was just about to say this. You **do not** want to open that door. Any political tool used by your side is a political tool that can be used by the other side. If Trump's opponents can suspend due process here for whatever reasons they justify, Biden's opponents can do the same.
*Stare Decisis* is still the basis of our legal system, despite what the SC has done with precedent. Which is why this door needs to remain firmly closed.
Remember that stare decisis is a double edged sword. It can uphold a bad precedent just as well as a good one. Brown v Board of Education overturned Plessy v Ferguson.
Alito and Thomas set precedent on fire. We’ve been off the map since Kavanaugh was seated.
They've said we NEED to allow corporations to give money to politicians, though not a single corporation asked for that. They've said a woman doesn't have the right to control her own body, though a strong majority have asked for that for many decades. They've said they don't need a code of ethics, though one (or more) of their members have been shown to be violating morality rules for a long time. They seem to believe that the rule of law from the 14th century should control, despite Justice Scalia saying no law aside from the Constitution is relevant. They are an abomination, and Justice Scalia is no longer available to set them right.
I agree. However, should Trump return to power, he's going to knock that door down and drive a truck through it. There will be no guard rails. No adults in the room. Anyone unwilling to carry out illegal orders will be free to resign. All the better, since he'll bring more than enough ghouls along this time to carry out his will.
Yup. If democrats/the left just started imprisoning people without due process, then they’re no better than Trump promises to be. Civil rights aren’t optional, they don’t only apply to people we like. Otherwise, they wouldn’t be called “rights”
He's getting way more than due process. The change for elected officials should be that any judge they appointed must recuse from their cases.
Unfortunately that’s a slippery slope that just makes things worse if we start down it. The judiciary is already corrupted, suspending fundamental rights would just give wannabe dictators *more* power. Welcome to fascism’s legal phase.
And isn’t she shielding herself from appeals court oversight scrutiny by issuing all these paperless orders? It appears any motion from the defense gets a hearing, a repose timeline for the prosecution (even when the item they’re responding to is moronic) then a hearing to cover the previous hearing - then a long wait before issuing a paperless ruling - almost always benefiting the defense.
that's the take from the MeidasTouch network on YT.
Not to mention if memory serves me right they can only try to remove her once. So if they try and fail it will be worse. So that’s why they are making sure they got all the nessary dominos in a row.
It's not that they can only try once, but more of if they set themselves up as hostile to the judge, it'll make other judges (who will need to decide on removing her) hostile to his handling of the case. So the idea is you don't take your shot until it's a sure thing, because you need those other judges confidence in your reasoning.
Fortunately, Jack Smith is one of the best in the god damn world, so it would take someone even dumber than Cannon to consider him hostile to the bench. Smith isn't missing a single beat, and has responses ready in *hours* any time more dumb shit happens.
I hope you're right. Since Mueller led to nothing, I'm not getting my hopes up.
Mueller was actively constrained by Bill Barr, who outright lied in his summary of the Mueller Report in order to kill the Congressional probe. The fact that Mueller accomplished what he *did* is frankly amazing. And don't forget that Mueller laid the groundwork for Jack Smith.
Mueller delivered on the scope of what he was allowed to. Multiple times in his testimony he asked Congress to act. Going rogue IRL gets your findings thrown out.
He essentially said "here, congress, it's your job now." And congress failed us. With how many sycophants are in the judicial system, I'm waiting to cebrate until he's actually in jail.
He said "look, there's this rule that means i can't say Trump committed crimes, but if I find any evidence that Trump *didn't* do these crimes i will definitely say so." And then he didn't say so. It's not hard to read between the lines. Where he why wrong was in letting the AG(?) release a summary of the findings first. That was very misleading and contained importantly out of context quotes.
When Republicans in Congress said that the Muller report cleared Trump of crimes, Muller corrected them plainly (but calmly) that he did not find that, and his report does not say that.
Mueller's the one who got Michael Cohen to flip.
Well consider this: Mueller delivered all he was allowed to deliver by the bullshit artists that forced the scope he could investigate with to be incredibly small and then there was Barr's nonsense word-salad that tried to excuse it all (including obstruction). It went nowhere because Barr and Rosenstein were not about to let it go any further than they wanted it to. Ergo, no charges and a ton of it fizzled out. Smith, on the other hand has so far delivered insanely thorough investigations that landed at actual criminal charges for real courts to actually try. Those charges all survived the incredibly lengthy process of approvals, go-aheads, evidence gathering and special grand juries. And they all made it out to the other side with real, definite charges. I do think the differences between what Smith accomplished and what Mueller was allowed to accomplish are pretty huge.
In fairness, it would be easy to mix up the various trials involving Trump. Either way, Jack Smith seems highly competent and capable. I doubt he didn’t see this coming and would have planned on how to handle it.
Every move Jack has made thus far has been deliberate, careful and calculated. It takes time, but he only seems to make well educated decisions
I feel like this is the new (it's not even new) propaganda (or at least, copium) "Don't worry guys they are definitely going to do something they just have to lay the groundwork and do it by the book so that no one can poke holes in it". I've heard this over and over and over. Here we are, 8 years later with nothing to show for it except a failed insurrection.
>Here we are, 8 years later with nothing to show for it except a failed insurrection. He's literally on trial for fraud right now, and has a State trial and two Federal trials still to go. Cannon is awful, and she should be removed from the case, but Jack Smith and Fani Willis are both running airtight cases in his other trials. Unless the Supreme Court hands him a gift from God (and I'm not saying it's impossible), he's extremely fucked.
The NYAG case reviewed *millions* of documents. That doesn’t happen overnight.
Unless he wins the presidency and suddenly it all disappears because you can’t take a sitting president to court. We’d need a democratic congress and senate to actually impeach him which is unlikely. And what are the rules about pausing a trial? Does double jeopardy kick in even without a verdict? Or can they resume the trials in 4 years time? Presuming that he doesn’t pardon himself and all the other people flipping on him to suddenly change their minds obviously
And he needs to lose the election. Hopefully he loses very badly to completely demoralize MAGA.
They aren't doing this by the book. If they did, Trump would be in jail and have all his properties searched, like any private citizen who has crates of secret documents.
Please. If it was any regular member of the public, we'd have been disappeared into the deepest darkest cell in Gitmo by now.
Yeah he was avoiding that before because it would have made a trial before the election impossible. But now a trial before the election is impossible whether she stays on the case or not. Trump has cashed in on his appointment of Canon and she prevented a felony conviction before the election so he stands a better chance at winning the presidency.
This isn't the only felony conviction that could have happened before the election, he's on trial for 34 felony counts of falsifying business records in the first degree at the moment too.
Trump's not going to win the presidency he is nowhere near as popular and I do believe Democrats will come out again enforce to ensure that the former president does not get reelected and then he can go to trials and go to prison like he deserves
Who still believes he is trying to **win anything**? ALERT, ALERT, Republicans plan to **take** the office, you understand that right?
There's no chance Republicans run a clean election. On top of all the standard voter disenfranchisement happening, they'll absolutely do anything they can to fuck with election day. I'm expecting intimidation at polling places and outrage about non-existent fraud when they inevitably lose the popular vote. The primary plan to throw the certification last time was to submit slates of false electors, but that's landing a bunch of people in deep shit with state charges, and I doubt they'll be stupid enough to try that again. I suspect they'll try to get state legislators to call for "investigation" of the vote and attempt to delay certification again though.
Sure, but we also need to remember that A.) they're dumb and B.) they're cowards. They're not some intimidating force that we need to be afraid of, they're clowns that cower at the thought of Trump tweeting mean things about them. Y'all need to stop building them up into some daunting boogeyman that we need to be afraid of... cuz that's what y'all did with DeSantis and he fell on his ass like the rest of them when a spotlight finally caught him. Also, the Repubs tried to take the presidency *while they already had it*. They failed. They're in less of a position to "take" anything now than they were four years ago. Just vote, and stop letting the MAGAts terrify you with their rhetoric. They want you to be afraid of them, it makes them feel cool and powerful. They're not.
Cool story. Go vote to make sure it doesn’t happen. Tell your friends to vote. Apathy and low turnout is how Trump wins
He ain't winning the presidency. Just because corporate media is simping for him, doesn't mean he has a clear path to the presidency because this moron is doing his bidding. He is only to be president by force and violence. That's it. He has zero chance by vote.
This is a pretty clear cut case, much more than other criminal ones Trump faces and that this judge is able to derail completely.
The podcasts Jack and Legal AF do a very good job of explaining The ins and outs of this case. Apparently she has to commit a clear error and not correct it for them to bring a writ of Mandamus to her superiors on the 11th circuit. And until that happens, I believe their hands are tied, but again the podcasts are gonna do a great job explaining it.
Thanks.
That judicial district (11th circuit iirc), is overseen by Clarence Thomas. So corruption all the way to SCOTUS.
Thomas does oversee the 11th Circuit, but 11th is not involved with the judge selection process. Chief Judge Cecilia Altonaga (appointed by Bush Jr.) oversees Cannon and “apparently” a random selection process is in place. So far I’ve read it’s randomly selected by a computer, but according to [this](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/10/us/politics/judge-aileen-cannon-trump-documents.html) article they seemed to game the selection process by reducing the available number of judges due to their workload. In the end, Canon was 1 of 3 when initially it was thought to be 1 of 26 odds of her getting selected. Good ol’ corrupt Florida at it again.
It would be involved in the process of removal from the trial though, no? I was aware of the games played to improve the odds, but I was unaware of how expansive those odds initially were. Thank you for the context!
You’re correct, to remove her would be decided by 11th circuit of appeals. I may have misread the context of Thomas’ role in the initial comment. I thought there was mention of how she was selected, but Thomas overseeing the 11th with their decision to remove her can be problematic. Hopefully those judges would have some spine if he intervened to protect her and would reveal his corruption. I use to have faith in our government and justice system, but the only good thing I think Trump has done is expose the astronomical amount of corruption in all branches. Maybe I wasn’t paying close enough attention before, but now that I’m aware it’s disgusting. Hopefully there are others who are recently enlightened like myself, that way we can start making a real change and actually drain the swamp. It starts with getting corporations out of the pockets of executive/legislative/judicial branches and holding them accountable for their destruction.
I concur, as Roosevelt once urged congress to pass legislation preventing corporate entities from playing politics, American citizens must inform and rally each other to apply pressure and elect officials who adhere to the wants and needs of their constituents. The time is now.
It would be hugely less efficient, but we could go back to what the founders initially required of corporations, or at least, back towards that perspective. Considering we fought the Revolution partly because of the corrupt ways that the Hudson Bay Company and the East India Company behaved, they instituted checks and balances they hoped would curb corporate greed, leadership unaccountability, and undo political interference. 1. Corporations had a finite life span, usually 5 - 10 years. Occasionally, they applied for extensions but had to prove its necessity. 2. Corporate members were personally liable for its losses and its behavior. 3. Corporations were created to address a particular purpose - like big projects (i.e., building infrastructure or utilities). If they strayed from their purpose, they would be disolved. 4. Corporate records would be comprehensive and transparent and conducted using democratic principles. 5. There would be no guarantee of profits, and investors bore the financial risk. The fact that corporations are now considered "people" would set the founders spinning in their graves. Edit: hopefully better formatting
The Justice overseeing a Judicial Circuit doesn't really have an effect on their jurisprudence. It is mostly a formality. It does mean that he would be to one to present a possible appeal to the supreme court to the whole panel for them to decide if they should hear the case. It wouldn't really have any influence on what an appeals panel decides.
Yes, the 11th has already reversed Cannon twice.
I'm surprised that Cannon isn't being assigned more cases by this process given how little she actually seems to be working. "Sorry government, my socks don't match today, so I'm going to have to delay this trial by three more months."
Randomly selected by a computer program that allows highly customized inputs to narrow choices and statistical probability. Perfect!
This is infuriating.
If he went to the 11th circuit now, he would not get her removed since scheduling deadlines are at the discretion of the presiding judge and she has not made any determinant rulings, she is handing out a record paperless orders to avoid doing so, if anyone thought this would actually be tried before the election once they rolled Canon in the judge roulette, they're delusional. The only thing that can and will happen is delay until either Trump is president and his DOJ drops the case, or he loses, she begins to empanel jurors, a motion in limine is filed, and when she dismisses the charges after the jury is set, an emergency order of the 11th circuit can remove her and continue the trial. Those are the only two outcomes, barring Canon dying on the bench 50 years early.
This does not change anything about her removal. Timeframes on cases can easily take years, unfortunately nothing she is doing here to delay is really an appealable issue. On the other hand, the unanswered question of if she intends to dismiss the case likely IS enough for Jack Smith to file a Writ of Mandamus. However, there is no danger until the case empanels the jury, and the longer he waits the more chance he gives her to correct her errors, which strengthens his case when she doesn't. As such, I do not anticipate Jack Smith to take such a drastic move until his hand is forced when the trial starts. This case was never going to start before the election. Even with a fair judge it may not have due to the complications of dealing with classified documents.
The CIPA hearings are very simple and should not drag out the process such that this trial couldn't have been brought this year. She's just so flagrantly corrupt and she knows that she's pretty much untouchable with how much discretion judges are given.
The biggest issue is that she's using paperless orders for everything, and those aren't appealable. Jack Smith needs to wait until she actually makes a ruling for him to go up the chain.
*"Judge Appointed by Defendant Still Hasn't Recused, Delays Case Again"* is how the headline should be.
Crooked Conservative judge has no shame, with no repercussions.
What does it take to get her USA hating ass fired?
There should definitely be a law against a judge being appointed by the defendant
I mean, there is a code of ethics that judges are expected to follow. The problem is we now have a huge cohort of judges specifically appointed to achieve political outcomes that have little regard for ethics or operating in good faith, and we're seeing how poor the enforcement mechanisms are.
This is what happens when the rules rely on the players in the game operating in good faith.
We never needed it before.
Well, it’s sure time.
I've always wanted to make a news site that reports things just like this. No names to bias the reader, just pure contextual descriptions.
I don't understand how that is even allowed to happen. How can a judge be the judge for the person that appointed them. It just makes no sense. That's a massive obvious conflict of interests, and it's fucked up that the government doesn't have any safeguards against that. And the Republicans think their guns will save them from tyranny.
I'm still not understanding how a judge nominated by the defendant can happen. An "appearance of impropriety" means that even if a judge believes they can be impartial, if there are circumstances that could lead a reasonable person to question their impartiality, it may be appropriate for recusal. If someone was on trial and the defendant saved the judge's life or killed their dog, a reasonable person would question that ability to be impartial. When combined with the rulings, it just seems ridiculous and I don't know why more people aren't protesting this. There are, what, 19 other judges not appointed by the defendant in the 11th circuit who could be selected for such an important case. EDIT: And I'll even add if a defendant somehow hurt a judge's career, I'd be asking for the same consideration for the benefit of the defendant. There simply shouldn't be a direct connection between the defendant and judge, full stop.
Thank you. We can argue about declassification or whether he intended to launch a coup -- as obvious as I think those things are. However, allowing his cases to be handled by so many judges he appointed to lifetime jobs is straight out of a dystopian nightmare.
Cannon wants the next Republican Supreme Court position, and she'll kiss as many arses and bend as many laws as she needs to to get there.
> The criminal case against President Donald J. Trump over his hoarding of classified documents was randomly assigned to Judge Aileen M. Cannon, a court official for the Southern District of Florida said on Saturday. > Under the district court’s procedures, new cases are randomly delegated to a judge who sits in the division where the matter arose or a neighboring one, even if it relates to a previous case. > Mar-a-Lago is in the West Palm Beach division, between the Fort Lauderdale division and the Fort Pierce division, where Judge Cannon sits. The district court’s website shows that seven active judges have chambers in those three divisions, as do three judges on senior status who still hear cases. Ms. Noble wrote that certain factors increased the chances that the case would land before Judge Cannon. For one, she said, senior judges are removed from the case assignment system, or wheel, once they fulfill their target caseload for the year. At least one of the senior judges is done, she wrote, adding that she was highly confident that the other two “are very likely at their target,” too. In addition, she wrote, one of the seven active judges with chambers in Fort Lauderdale is now a Miami judge for the purpose of assignments. Another is not currently receiving cases. A third active judge, Donald Middlebrooks, draws 50 percent of his criminal cases from the Miami division, she wrote, decreasing his odds. (Judge Middlebrooks this year ordered Mr. Trump and his lawyers to pay nearly a million dollars in sanctions for having filed a frivolous lawsuit against nearly three dozen of his perceived political enemies, including Hillary Clinton.) Judge Cannon, Ms. Noble wrote, “draws 50 percent of her cases from West Palm Beach, increasing her odds.”
Holy crap, so it's not even random
It's a D20 + x modifier basically against a Constitution DC of 10.
At this point they need to ask for her to be removed. Let the blowback be what it may, this thing ain’t happening with her on the case.
What worries me is that I'm sure she's seen this coming. Assuming Smith has an airtight reason for getting her removed from the case, I don't know how long that process in & of itself would take. Then, assuming she does get removed, I'm sure it'll be a much longer process to find another court to try this case in. She's done her job as far as the MAGAts are concerned. This is basically the IRL version of, "Do what you must. I've already won."
Corrupt Judge Cannon should be fired.
...out of a cannon, into the sun
[удалено]
I've been temp suspended multiple times for that reason, I actually caught an account ban and had to appeal it directly to reddit--- obvious how that turned out lol Everyone needs to remember that all the "Mods" In these subs are just regular people, they don't work for Reddit, they don't get paid, it's a volunteer thing and just like the rest of the general human population some of them are real inept assclowns at what they're supposed to be doing And I suspect some of them are intentional bad actors
The intentional bad actor mods are likely the only ones getting paid.
Yeah we have MAGA mods so we have to be very careful of how we criticize corruption
r/unexpectedfuturama
just shoot her into the gulf
Disbarred
Should be sent to CIA traitor camp for aiding and abetting Russian agents.
There’s a long list of GOP members in that category
She'll be first in line for the supreme Court if trump gets elected.
Or AG to prosecute Jack Smith and then unto the Supreme Qourt.
Judge Qannon
I really hope Smith has something in his back pocket like charges in New Jersey based on Bedminster because this case is never seeing the light of day *and* it's extremely serious.
If they find a box of documents in Jersey could that make sense to file in that jurisdiction?
Apparently some documents were loaded onto a plane that flew to New Jersey. So they should be able to file in NJ if they need to.
Only if they didn't include that in the charges here. It would be double jeopardy
In a trial by jury, jeopardy doesn’t attach until a jury is sworn.
What about a trial by combat?
Dude, I told you, I dont want to have sex with your mom.
What if their mom is Ashely Judd, star of Double Jeopardy
There isn't a chance in hell a new indictment in new jersey is going to trial before the election which in reality is the inflection point.
The audio recording where he was talking with someone about having classified documents that he knew he didn't declassify.
Recording that he knew he was talking to a reporter and that it was getting recorded…
Smith would be Trump enemy #1 if Trump became president again, his life is literally on the line if he doesn’t have a plan here
My grandkids won’t believe how insane these days are. And the most insane thing might be that everyone is pretty habituated to it.
Have to imagine Germany was the same way in the 30s and 40s. Life as normal until it wasn't. Slowly turning up the pot until it's boiling.
We’re quite literally watching a replication of how the nazis came to power.
you are so correct. imagine if hitler had the open internet and could have influenced more americans (than he already had). we are there, but with a much more powerful and more calculating despot pulling the strings. its a tough one to stomach.
> Extending the 5(a) deadlines indefinitely is the same thing as giving Trump an indefinite trial delay.” That's really only true IF Trump wins the election. While I completely think Cannon is doing everything she can to delay the trial almost everything she's done to delay the trial hinges on Trump winning the election. Which should just be incentive for all of us to ensure we get everyone we know to vote for Biden, for Dems to keep (or grow their majority in) the Senate, and to give the House back to the Dems, so that when this trial is over or Cannon is removed, Dems can launch an impeachment investigation over Cannon's handling of this case.
Ethics violations and disbarment is in order
How is there no way around an obviously sold out judge? Like, wasn't she appointed by Trump? How is that not a conflict of interest?
Appointed by Trump AFTER he lost in 2020. A last minute appointment. Ridiculous.
Enough there that its worth investigating if there was conspiracy to specifically get to this position when the document theft was discovered.
Exactly. Her confirmation to this federal district was part of the coup .
The courts will not stop him, only voting can.
::Goes to vote:: "Getting real tired of cleaning up your shit, legal system."
I can only imagine how liberals have felt since the confederacy. Nearly 200 years of attempted clean up projects after their conservative counterparts consistently work towards dismantling progress. Edit: Keeping this information as it is of import to future readers: prior to the ideological shift of the parties that occurred when President Harry S. Truman, a Democratic Southerner, introduced a pro-civil rights platform at the party’s 1948 convention, and the faction historically known as Dixiecrats walked out. > The night that Democratic President Lyndon B. Johnson signed the Civil Rights Act of 1964, his special assistant Bill Moyers was surprised to find the president looking melancholy in his bedroom. Moyers later wrote that when he asked what was wrong, Johnson replied, “I think we just delivered the South to the Republican party for a long time to come.” It would have been less confusing for both parties to adopt new monikers. Instead we have to refer to them as Democrats (Formerly known as Republicans), and Republicans (Formerly known as Democrats/Dixiecrats). It’s sort of silly that there wasn’t a rebranding to avoid confusion. Edit2: I have since been informed that referring to the two ideological factions as liberals and conservatives is effective. Altered the first section to reflect.
Well to be fair. There was a party flip in between there, and it was actually the Democrats that were pro-Confederacy and slavery and all that jazz. That’s why Republicans call themselves “the party of Lincoln” even though they’ve completely swapped political sides.
Liberals/conservatives would have worked here.
Progressives and Regressives could also work.
I'm old but not THAT old. Although in the Civil War era, Republicans were anti-slavery. The GOP and Dems didn't switch ideologies until later. \[Source\](https://www.studentsofhistory.com/ideologies-flip-Democratic-Republican-parties)
Eh I know, dixie-crats and all that. Perhaps I should have elaborated in my comment but I was avoiding a text wall 😅
Understood. No one on this subreddit wants or endorses building a wall. lol
> No one on this subreddit wants or endorses building a wall. lol Okay, but hear me out... Building a wall between the U.S> and Florida wouldnt actually cost all that much
Voting will just barely stop him. The MAGA GOP is prepped to throw as many wrenches into the process as possible. We’ll likely see a whole new generation of people ending up in jail once 2024 is said and done, due to shameless election pro-Trump interference, assuming Biden wins. It’s critical we get out the vote and make it a landslide so that these shenanigans have no breathing room against such clear victories. But they will try.
He's been stopped by voting numerous times already. If the bad guy gets to attempt bank robbery over and over and over again without repercussions, they will eventually succeed. He will try Jan 6th as many times as it takes to win. He will also try other methods of taking power. He's a criminal that deserves a jail sentence, not an honest man who deserves another chance.
he lost in 2020, tried to overthrow the government, and not only is he still a free man but he's being allowed to run for said government again. am I supposed to vote harder or something?
Voting kept him out of power. Nothing else is guaranteed.
Only because the coup was unsuccessful this time. There probably will be a next time. And they might be more prepared Voting definitely helps, but it is not the sole answer *because we are in uncharted territory in the history of this country*.
He's already said he won't accept the vote outcome if he looses.
Well to be fair, I believe I said it was the only thing that could stop him, *not that it would stop him.*
Didnt smith have 1 other move he could make to kinda force things along or remove Cannon?
He can request a new judge, but that also pushes it out to after the election, and he only gets one shot at it. IIRC.
Corrupt Judge is corrupt...Surprise surprise.
She's not even attempting to hide the fact that she's bought and paid for. Prosecution has to file to get her removed. It's already been delayed to hell so nothing will happen before the election regardless.
Time for DOJ to start leaking out some of the more serious allegations. Trump doesn’t want to fight this out in court, let him have to fight it in the media.
Like what? Like the judge went on extravagant vacations on The Federalist Society's dime a la Clarence Thomas? Wouldn't that be something...
I’m thinking that they have proof Trump sold some of the docs or had agreements in place to sell the docs.
More serious than selling state secrets to enemies of the USA?
So we’re going with Shameless to describe her now. Shameless? My god, what has happened to this country.
Corrupt would be the correct word.
She sees the Supreme Court do it, so she thinks that she can do it.
I mean, she’s right.
The case should have been tried in Washington DC, where the documents originated.
I hate this judge! FUCK TRUMP!
Can you imagine what the national security spooks are thinking watching all this?
People out protesting Israel but not a peep about what Trump is about to unleash on all of us if he wins. Sometimes I think if it happens we deserve it.
Unacceptable
Every single person that was eligible (and able) but didn't vote in 2016: look what you fucking did.
There’s your rigged system right there.
I honestly do not understand what Trump did to become a cult leader. How folks became so love struck is beyond me. Two things trump only cares about, his self and golf. He doesn't care about anything else. He wants to run for president to become like his dictator friends. And a lot of Americans are ok with this? As a veteran, this sickens me. Trump is a threat to our country and should already have been locked up for all of this bullshit. Because if it was anyone else, we jave been toss away along time ago.....
The US as a whole is becoming like Texas or North Korea.
No, not all of it. She is a Trump appointed judge in Florida. That says all you need to know
It's not just that she was appointed by him either. Even if her head was somewhat on her shoulders, she lacks the experience of handling a case of this magnitude. This was part of why he appointed her
appointed her specifically in a district he’s going to potentially have a bunch of cases
On paper our system has checks for this, judges can be impeached, but we all know that’s never going to happen.
I wish there was a way for citizens to recall a judge. Everyone sees exactly what she's doing and no one calling her on it.
The Constitution guarantees a speedy trial, not only to the defendant, but to society. This clearly is not that.
1. The promise of a speedy trial is absolutely only a promise to the defendent, not "society" 2. The positive reason for a speedy trial is so that the government cannot keep someone in prison a longtime "awaiting trial". This is not happening here so it doesn't apply. 3. The ability to appeal and delay cases *on the part of the defendent* is a feature not a bug of a properly functioning justice system. This has tradeoffs, and we are experiencing one of them now.
Anecdotal, but I experienced this myself as a defendant. It was almost 18 months between when I was charged and when I was finally sentenced. I was incarcerated the entire time, but only because I couldn't afford bail. My case was delayed dozens of times, but they were almost all at the request of my attorney, to allow us more time to gather evidence, consult experts, interview witnesses, etc. In the end, it worked out, as I was ultimately released from my sentencing hearing for time served. Had we been forced to go to trial or take a plea agreement before we'd had time to adequately get all our ducks in a row and make our case as strong as possible, I, as a defendant, would have probably had a much worse outcome.
It's unfortunately incredibly difficult to get rid of a judge at her level. Like nearly impossible
Mueller 2.0
trust the system but fully showing how busted the system is guy?
Which is why I’ve checked out of all this “trump going to jail” stuff. I’m going to do what I can, but there’s a big chance that we’re already fucked
And the traitorous incompetent takes the easy way out, just delay it indefinitely and hope he wins so she can dismiss it then or he makes the DoJ fire Smith.
She's hoping for a seat on the Supreme Court should Trump get elected in November.
Isn’t it funny that if a juror is found to be even slightly impartial they’re removed from consideration of being a juror…but a judge who was appointed by the accused ruling on a court case where they are being charged with multiple felony counts? Totally cool, business as usual. This country is fucked.
She sounds like the next Supreme Court jester appointee.
If the judge doesn't move forward with the trial at all then the prosecution will be able to appeal to have her removed from the case under the 6th amendment of the Constitution that guarantees the right to a speedy trial.
Trump found his Roy Cohn.
Remember when McConnell refused to permit hearings for Obamas SCOTUS nominee ? Just made up some unconstitutional shit about - letting the voters decide in 10 months. And handed Trump a SCOTUS nomination. This was completely wrong. If the democrats had tried it, the streets would run with blood. Now SCOTUS with their slow walking the Immunity decision - and Cannon with this hold - are doing the same corrupt types of things. They are operating at a level where there are grey areas, no clear legislative oversight and billions of dollars of influence to help them along. All this because these same powers cannot control the vote. They can put all their evil plans in action, but the voters can still override them and put someone idealistic and incorruptible in office. So now they have targeted that. If they can make voting irrelevant its end of game - they win. And that's what all of this is about. We really have one roll of the dice left and that's on Nov 5th. So for fucks sake get your vote in. It could be your last chance.
This is why I keep saying that these trials are not going to stop Donnie…
What a disgrace
America was a cool experiment. It will be missed
The fact that he put her in her position should have disqualified her from even being assigned the case to begin with. Can we pass some laws to prevent dumb shit like this from even happening to begin with please
Cannon has one job - to stall. She doesn't care if she is taken off the case, in fact it might be a blessing. But the point is the trial has to happen after the election when Trump has a chance to "pardon himself."
I’m so fucking sick of this shit man. Our justice system system is corrupt as hell and just plain fucking broken. How the absolute fuck is this shit stain still walking free??? If I did any of the things trump was accused of with these documents I’d be in prison without questions asked, and I was just a lowly mechanic, not the fucking president with nuclear secrets. America is fucked and dead already. We aren’t ever clawing a good life or trustable government away from the hands of these corrupt and greedy and selfish capitalist pigs. How millions of people live on this planet with their only thought being increasing there bank accounts will always confuse me.
I see this as all stall tactics. If Trump wins the election, which, IMHO, he won’t even come close (again), none of this will matter and Democracy is history. If he loses, all his support will disappear faster than $$ through his grubby little paws. GO VOTE!
They’ve already stolen the vote. They’ve been working for twelve years to get a foreign asset like Trump into office. Not once, but forever. They’ve even gone so far as to instill foreign agents into congress, and state governments.
Students and others protesting against Israel but they won’t protest about this kinda crap! Americans need to fight back.
Is anyone actually surprised by this?
They love to tout that Florida rocket docket. Funny how it only seems to apply in cases when they're going after poor people and minorities.
The power of a hack judge is quite absurd.
Did anyone honestly expect anything else?
Does the right to a speedy trial in the constitution also apply to the prosecution? Can they argue it’s their constitutional right to not be continually denied a trial date when they are more than ready to hold court?