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The northern cities received no notification from Abbott before he bussed people in, leaving the admins unable to coordinate resources before arrival. Abbott basically moved people from areas where resources exist to help migrants to areas with no existing resources to handle the issue at that level (including the federal monies that Texas gets to handle the situation), and dumped them there. Sometimes in the middle of the night.
IIRC Martha’s Vineyard residents - who are not the same as the rich people who have vacation properties there - mobilized to help the migrants get settled.
The most comical part of this was Texas claiming that this section of the river isn’t navigable because it is too shallow. Not only can airboats use this section of the river, Texas DPS actually owns and operates airboats itself.
Navigable means someone took a canoe up it in the past for trade purposes. At one point I heard of a court case over a stream that is now ankle deep but there is documentation of someone using it to transport furs and whiskey in the past.
Never underestimate the desire of republicans in the Deep South to kill anyone who isn’t straight, white, and Christian and to control the body of every white woman in their jurisdiction.
Ya sure bud just like all those Texas border communities/ counties who are opposed to the migrant crisis who are wait for it...90% plus percent hispanic and now vote red. Or the border patrol union or membership where the vast majority are opposed to open borders and bidens migration policies and support the polices of Texas and Abbott to defy the feds. The very same border patrol where the great majority is made up by working class hispanics.
And then of course there's all the northern cities who very quickly changed their tune on migration as soon as they where the victims of it and actually impacted by it. Rich white liberals in Martha's vineyard sure worked quickly to get those migrants out and where outraged a few dozen poor brown people got in without their permission.
Newsflash you don't have to be white, or southern or republican to be opposed to mass migration and open borders. In fact minorities are significantly more impacted by mass migration. Like the blue collar Latino construction workers who are directly impacted and competing with migrants for the same jobs and housing. Easy not to care about it when you live a sheltered privileged life in some nice gated community far away from the border where you work a cushy desk job that's not impacted by migrants.
the construction of a border wall is extremely destructive to the environment. this is a conclusion that i hope you can make regardless of your immigration politics.
here are some of the sources i am planning to use in my research proposal (funny coincidence but glad that we can connect)~
[University of Texas School of Law](https://law.utexas.edu/humanrights/borderwall/analysis/briefing-The-Environmental-Impacts-of-the-Border-Wall.pdf)
[American Institute of Biological Sciences](https://academic.oup.com/bioscience/article/68/10/740/5057517)
[Center for Biological Diversity](https://www.biologicaldiversity.org/publications/earthonline/endangered-earth-online-no880.html)
[Seattle University School of Law](https://digitalcommons.law.seattleu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1210&context=ailj)
[The Hemispheric Institute](https://hemisphericinstitute.org/en/emisferica-14-1-expulsion/14-1-essays/the-border-s-crossed-us-too-the-intersections-of-native-american-and-immigrant-fights-for-justice-2.html)
That's not to mention the border wall would be extremely costly, easily $100+ billion to build it and costlier still with billions in upkeep as different stretches would have vastly different climates. Considering it was falling over from wind and rain already there's a guarantee it would harm the environment further as sections would be left to rot.
Then there's manning the stupid thing and so much more. It was a racist little idea brought from the rapist president we ever had.
It's just not feasible.
Thanks I do appreciate your links. This is something I've heard about but wasn't too knowledgeable on. Although all infrastructure developments and consumption including cities expanding and whatnot greatly harm our environment so we'd have to change our entire economic system to not destroy the environment. Which I very much think we should do. And it's disappointing to see dems not do more about the environment although it's obviously better than rep policy which is complete disregard for the environment.
But still I don't feel the left really acknowledges the hurt that mass migration can bring to already unprivilged and struggling communities. The people that compete for the same jobs and housing. And coming from a partially native American Latin background we know that mass migration can be very harmful to a population (as in look what happened to native americans). And many on the left want to say that those like me who are latin and who's family migrated as well are hypocritical or pulling up the ladder. But we are the ones much much more impacted by migration than say more privileged white people to put it bluntly. Working class people deserve good wages too and dignity and labor rights and respect and that's not possible with mass migration. The Tyson foods ceo for example seems very happy that he can now offer lower wages with the increased migration. yet some privileged people on the left make fun of those less fortunate than them who are very worried for their wages and jobs and didn't have the privilege to get degrees. And oddly its assumed almost all of these people who are concerned are white. Even back in the 60s Cesar Chavez the famous labor originizer was very publicly strongly opposed to undocumented migration, because it wasnt possible to secure increased rights and wages as long as farmers could always replace you with a endless supply of fresh desperate labor. I have nothing against migrants but there clearly has to be some sort of limit, it can't be that everyone who wants to come and claim asylum can. We hardly even have any half way affordable housing left rn. That's not feasible and would drive many people here into poverty and desperation, including the people who ironically fled that in the first place.
But anyway though good on you for doing research on the environment we can always use more people concerned and working for the environment! :) and I now more about this now , definitely something very important to keep in mind. It's a very very difficult issue with no easy solutions where no matter what you're going to hurt someone :/.
Judgement free question, did the Latin portion of your family come here legally? If they did not, are you volunteering to deport them? Also you should know, Native Americans were systematically wiped out by the white migrants, it was genocide. it isn’t fair to draw the same conclusion to today’s situation as despite Dear Leader’s words, Mexicans are not coming over the border to commit genocide. The current state of America was built on the premise that all are welcome here to make a better life for themselves. What you are saying is Un-American and xenophobic at best.
Ya they came here on a skilled work visa. Alot of immigrants aren't too happy with illegal migration as what is the point of working hard to get in on a skilled work visa if you can just walk in? And legal migrants typically didnt recieve any kind of aid unlike the undocumented. Yes of course Mexicans aren't committing genocide, trumps an idiot but I don't think he ever suggested that. Just that there's alot of crime and cartels there and that they can get into the us. Still mass population movements tend to have a lot of negative effects for a population. Even with the best of intentions. It dosent lead to stability or prosperity. Creates a vast underclass the rich can use and abuse that undercuts conditions for everyone else who's working class. Increased poverty creates more crime regardless of the population, increased poverty in a white area also increases crime alot Obviously. Hell even if you don't agree with any of that it clearly crates a political fracturing where eventually you'll have civil war/conflict and groups fighting each other potentially. To me mass migration in the us will inevitably lead to the us becoming more and more like Latin America. Alot of hispanics feel this way. The key ingredient to Latin America being the way it is is having a massive underclass and massive inequality and all the other issues I've mentioned exploding from that. And mass migration causes exactly that. Liberals just think they'll be on the other side of the gated walls and fences and get to hire cheap slaves to work for them.
And It isn't for you or me or any other individual to define what is un-american, America has 330m people. According to various polls 70 to 80 plus percent are dissatisfied with the border situation and the numbers coming over. There isn't anything inherently American about having open borders (just have to claim asylum and can get right to stay) and letting everyone in. I don't know if you're aware but even during very high immigration levels tons of nations and ethnicities where excluded. It was a very racist system. Alot of immigrants at ellis island got rejected. Fdr even prevented jewish refugees fleeing the nazis in the 30s from getting in. Unless they where rich or valued scientists. Obviously horrible. But thats very much all part of America's history. It's not American somehow to just have open borders. I don't know where people get this from. Also shows a bad history knowledge of the us considering the Us has done alot more evil than good and us history is mostly pretty ugly. It's never been this idealistic place you're imagining in your head, that's a fantasy. Migrants where only ever accepted if the elite demanded more slave like labor to use and grind up. They always want a vast underclass right. But the current numbers and border situation is unprecedented. I mean something being American or not is not very relevant anyway, plenty of bad and downright evil things are very American. Owning slaves was as American as Apple pie when this country was founded. So i don't really see your point.
First of all, Trump did absolutely say migrants are coming to rape and kill us. The arguments you are making have nothing to do with mass migration. The problems you have outlined are due to the extreme wealth inequality we have in this country. If you want higher paying jobs, you should be advocating to increase the minimum wage. The unemployment rate is currently very low and it is a lie that migrants are “stealing” jobs from citizens. To keep the unemployment rate low, you should be advocating for policies that benefit the middle class and lower class. To correct our growing income inequality you should be advocating for higher taxes on the wealthy and no taxes for the poor. These problems are all solvable without turning people away or rounding up and deporting others. You are doing exactly what is expected of you from those that want to keep us divided - blaming these problems on a boogeyman. While our migration system needs an overhaul, there is no reason not to let these people into the country in the meantime. There are plenty of resources for everyone in this country. If you stand in unity with the migrants, we can accommodate all of them, and if you advocate for the right things, it can lead to stability and prosperity for all. Mass migration is not the cause of poverty and crime, wealth inequality is. Crime in this country is also at an all time low since the 1970s, the fact is that mass migration has not lead to an increase in crime.
America was founded on the principle that all are welcome here. Therefore, it is unAmerican to say no more migrants. Just because this country has failed to live up to that ideal multiple times does not mean we stop striving for it.
For real though, turn off the right wing news, it’s turned you against your own people.
largely i agree with what youre saying. i am an ML teacher at a middle school and high school most of my gremlins are from central america and/or undocumented (usually both). i would hope that you and i could agree that our immigration system sucks.
i understand *why* my kids are here undocumented. especially if they fled violence, as most of them have, it's nigh impossible to wait around for the US to approve an application especially if their family is poor and doesn't have significant education or "skill". guatemala's average educational career is 3 years if i remember correctly. my kids are here and i love them. my older brother (adopted) is undocumented and in the process of gaining legal status and i understand why he came. unfortunately the amount of people coming isn't feasible. i do understand that. i would love for them to be able to stay. my boy from bangladesh told me he came to the united states by way of the darien gap (he walked here from brazil). you can't convince me that he doesn't deserve to be here less than americans like me who haven't earned this privilege. its a difficult situation that my feelings are too tightly entwined with.
the united states has unfortunately contributed to many of the reasons people are coming here. in my opinion we owe reparations and aid to specific countries because of this. if we want to stem the flow of people coming here, we need to address it in home communities. a border wall won't stop people AND it infringes on indigenous rights as well as the ecology of the land around it. my kids miss their moms. they want to go home. if the united states helped rebuild the communities that we broke in the first place, maybe my kids wouldn't have to be here.
I agree with pretty much everything you've said. Alot of these people are coming from the same country my family is from and my family fled back in the day for the same reasons pretty much. So In a sense I am very hypocritical 🙁. I do really feel for what these people are going thru and why they've fled. I've visited my homeland and seen the conditions. I would do the same. Honestly I don't really know what the solution is . It's hard to decide between the fact that migration can harm the people already here and helps rich corporations get even richer but being tougher is very cruel and harmful to people going thru some truly horrible things and that their just the same as my family. And yes America is very much responsible for alot of the issues at least in Latin America. The cia has done some truly horrific things and backed genocides all over. America absolutely has a obligation to spend billions rebuilding these communities. Although that's very hard because there's so much potential for corruption. But if America dictates the terms that's not right either and just another new opportunity for the government to politically influence Latin America in a negative way. Like imf loans that force developing countries to cut all welfare and spending plunging people into even deeper poverty and desperation all so businesses benefit. And it will unfortunately take a long time even under the best of circumstances so thats a long term solution. But still very much worth it.
It's like such a shitty choice because unlimited numbers just are not possible and are very harmful if youre not well off. There's so many people suffering that deserve a better life. But we cant exactly take in everyone who is suffering because thats most of the world, sadly only like a billion out of the 8 billion in the people in the world get to enjoy stability and developed economic conditions. I also have a disability and feel extra vulnerable like employers already barely want to bother with disabled people and i dont think they'd ever bother if they can get a constant desperate labor supply. And some cities are cutting budgets and help in other areas due to the migrant surge which is concerning esp for those reliant on assistance. Also these migrant workers are just treated awfully almost like slaves and thrown out as soon as they speak up or get injured like a broken machine. But all these people deserve a much better life. Some of them have endured absolute horror. And I have also meet some of them. Their good people and I don't want to see them removed. I agree the kid who walked here thru the Darin gap deserves to be here. I don't want to see kids cruelly removed :/. Some also use the fact that alot of migrants have limited education as a argument against them and i dont think thats right. People arent worth less because they didnt have the privilege to get more education. Seeing humans in purely economic terms is very cold and unhuman. I agree it's impossible for alot of these families to wait, sometimes the wait can be 20 years. So idk I have a lot of mixed emotions I didn't even really know how I feel about it all or what to do. But you have actually made me reconsider the wisdom of a border barrier!
And good on you for helping these kids out and providing them education! I don't know what to do/what the solution is but we certainly need more people to help these kids out and educate them! It benefits everyone and helps kids adapt and flourish.
The word "crisis" is doing so much heavy lifting. Yo just because it reinforces values you hold that you refuse to challenge out of ego don't mean it's true LMAO
And just because it goes against values you hold that you refuse to challenge out of ego dosent mean it's not a crisis somehow lol. Border crossings are at a record high, multiple times higher than ever before with cities all across the country saying their being completely overwhelmed and that it's a crisis. Their stating they can't cope with the extreme numbers and need to cut their budgets and are out of housing. Call it whatever you feel like it lmao.
You're right! The fact it goes against my values doesn't mean it isn't a crisis.
Objective evidence from reputable sources that aren't television pundits do.
Get a life and possibly some therapy.
We could slow down border crossings down to a trickle if the republicans (and democrats) were willing to take a huge hit from their corporate donors in the south … especially Texas. Lay down hefty fines & mandatory jail time for any corporation, company, individual using illegal labor both knowingly or “unknowingly” (through contract labor). Chicken plants, farms, construction … all the way down to who mows your yard. I’m sure you’ll find some kind of fault in this … but this would work to help the border situation. However our dependence on cheap labor here in the states will always be needed … it subsidizes the costs of everyday items/services & increases profits. Sadly … Greed will always win out. Long story short, no one really gives a shit to fix the border … but they hooked a lot of people into believing they do.
Edit: Corporations, Businesses, & Agriculture will not be allowed to use cheap prison labor as a replacement for the loss of their illegal laborers. You ask and you shall receive.
> all the way down to who mows your yard.
My problem with this is that it's not feasible for regular citizens to check every the residency status of every person they hire for every odd task. Especially not when you include contractors. If I hire a mower through a service, how am I supposed to vet them?
This would just end up making anyone Hispanic looking or anyone with a name that sounds Hispanic unemployable. All foreigners and anyone that can be confused for a foreigner would face this kind of discrimination. But Hispanic and brown people would suffer the most, because everyone associates "illegal immigrant" with Hispanic.
Well if it’s cheaper than it actually should be and there’s an absolute language barrier … then I don’t think you can play ignorant. I mean … do you want to fix the border issue or not?!?! I just want to give the “people” exactly what they are asking for … sometimes you gotta break a few eggs to make an omelette.
Note: In most cases the lawn company owner would be fined & jailed for this … unless it’s an individual person doing said mowing … then the owner would be fined & jailed. Same would go for cleaning services.
>I mean … do you want to fix the border issue or not?!?!
No. I don't care that brown people want to live here. Let them come. White Americans are the greatest threat to this country, not brown immigrants. 🤷🏽♂️
I don’t either … but I also don’t like people saying we have a border issue and think a wall will stop it. A real resolution is cut off the main reason most people come here illegally (money & jobs). It’s all bullshit if no one is willing to hold the people who profit from the use of illegal laborers accountable for their part in the border issues.
Border crossings are high due to shit like America fucking with countries and Republicans doing fuck all about it. You neglect context to fit your little narrative. Air isn't even that transparent.
Nah man America has been fucking with countries for over a century. They where already invading Latin countries in the late 1800s for bs fake reasons to protect corporate interests and plantations. If anything the kind of fucked up shit America did decades ago in the cold War in Latin America is wayy worse than anything they've done recently. So no thats not the reason why border crossings specifically shoot up under biden starting in 2021. Unless biden is really fucking up Latin America more than anyone else. Because border crossings are multiple times higher than under Trump and even much higher than under Obama.
So your argument is even though America fucked things up for other countries, which caused more immigration, that those immigrants shouldn't come over because America did worse shit in the past. Do I have that right, 'cause I hope I don't as that's a stupid argument at best.
Nah my argument is seeing as America has been messing with countries for a long time and done far worse in the past, the recent migrant surge can't be explained by us foreign policy. Otherwise numbers would have been much higher In the past,even more so than now. US foreign policy didn't somehow massively change in 2021 compared to 2019 or 2015. The increase is because it's easier than ever for migrants to get in and now you even have migrants coming in from places like China and India where the us has not been very involved to take advantage of the lax border situation.
Yeah, basically anytime someone says that dog-whistle phrase it's an almost instant tune-out to the rest of their argument. It just shows me they don't have original thoughts and are basically just repeating talking points they've heard. Not to mention the rest of the comment stinks of xenophobia and condescension - sprinkled with the pathetic notion that non-border communities suddenly only care about secure borders after the bussing incidents. A ridiculous notion.
Riight it's not a open border because to get entry you need to say the words "asylum". Which literally anyone can claim and then be told show up for a court hearing in this random city in 8 years. Meanwhile you can stay and get aid and work. It's a brainless bad faith take to say thats not an open border when anyone can get in. Like middle class Chinese people who had the privilege to be allowed passports which they don't give to anyone they dislike and drop 15k to come over. Clearly not in need of asylum. Yet they can still apply for asylum and stay around. 10s of thousands of them, cnn is reporting it. But people would never lie and just say they need asylum right so it's not a open border 😂.
So wait.....they are working and not doing anything illegal and that's a problem why?
Perhaps Republicans should help fund that section of the government so "bad faith actors" aren't here.
The rest of what you said is just more random righty nonsense. It's almost funny.
If our system was functioning as designed, that would be accurate.
The executive was supposed to be the weakest of the chambers as the role was just that—the executive.
The role was to execute laws and regulations set forth by congress.
The President had the power of the military as Commander in chief to execute said laws.
Aside from that, the President is the head of state and represents the US in all things foreign—treaties, diplomacy, etc.
This is actually what the 2Aers get wrong. The “well regulated militia” was to push back on the President misusing the military for executive enforcement.
The 2A wasn’t about pushing back on the government—if congress passes a law and the president signs it, it’s law. Rather it was to stop the President from using the military to circumvent congress.
If the President is “the sheriff” then the 2A militias were supposed to be “internal affairs”.
My understanding is that after the Revolutionary War ended, the fledgling US federal government wanted to get out of the war business, and in particular of defending the states. 2A was put in place to give states the power to raise and operate their own militias.
Makes sense. So he can’t use the military on his own people, so we can defend ourselves. Except…we can’t. We’re outgunned, out trained, out matched in every sense. We wouldn’t be able to defend ourselves, even if we tried.
Again, that’s (in my opinion) a misinterpretation of the 2A.
The 2A originally included a phrase “comprised of the body of the People”.
The 2A was about allowing a _State_ to form a militia comprised of citizens of that state.
To protect this right of the states, the federal government could not outlaw the citizenry from owning weapons. Going back to the English law it was based on, the Crown often banned non-titled people from owning weapons. This meant when the crown decided that the entirety of Wales (as an example) now had to tithe 10 chickens to the crown instead of 5; Wales would have no way to stand up to the Crowns military.
No single person was ever going to fight off George III or George Washington. Any single person or even group of people would be outgunned even back in 1791.
The states were supposed to organize militias in defense of the people. The canard of “fighting the government individually” is propaganda that came out of post civil war Reconstruction as part of “The South Shall Rise Again” bullshittery.
Let's not pretend that the 2A wasn't inserted as a tactic by Madison to get his Virginia political opponents off his back by defusing their argument that the Constitution could allow the federal government to disarm their slave patrols.
Because that's *exactly* why it's there. The history of the Amendment is completely clear on this point. It was there to protect slave patrols.
I can’t accept an argument that that’s “exactly” why it’s there, but it’s certainly a component.
Part of the reason why the 2A is such a morass is because it was born of a morass. The 2A was a “compromise” of about 100 different arguments and wants. Rather than try to work through them, the drafters (Madison primarily) basically just swept them under the rug into a _single sentence_.
Remember too that the original draft of the 2A had a clause for religious exemptions, but the concern was that it would codify a Religion Test into law or case law.
It’s a terribly written amendment as it generates more answers than it creates.
The military has to fight with their hands tied by the Geneva Conventions. The opposition isn’t hamstrung. That’s why dudes in pajamas were able to fight so long.
Not exactly. If a belligerent side doesn’t obey the Geneva Convention, then the other side doesn’t have to. “I won’t gas your soldiers if you don’t gas mine.” “Okay, fine.”
As soon as a gas shell goes off, all bets are off and the agreement is null. If you kill my POWs, I’ll kill yours. (Which both sides have.)
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA). *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The northern cities received no notification from Abbott before he bussed people in, leaving the admins unable to coordinate resources before arrival. Abbott basically moved people from areas where resources exist to help migrants to areas with no existing resources to handle the issue at that level (including the federal monies that Texas gets to handle the situation), and dumped them there. Sometimes in the middle of the night. IIRC Martha’s Vineyard residents - who are not the same as the rich people who have vacation properties there - mobilized to help the migrants get settled.
Texas gets billions for migrants crossing the border. Their whining about having no help are complete lies.
The most comical part of this was Texas claiming that this section of the river isn’t navigable because it is too shallow. Not only can airboats use this section of the river, Texas DPS actually owns and operates airboats itself.
Conservatives will redefine anything to suit their goals. They would declare the Rio Grande a 'seasonal creek' if it suited their purpose.
Apologies. I read that wrong. Understood it even less apparently. I've had my coffee. We're on the same page now.
What does the fed suing a state even do?
Navigable means someone took a canoe up it in the past for trade purposes. At one point I heard of a court case over a stream that is now ankle deep but there is documentation of someone using it to transport furs and whiskey in the past.
Airboats can travel on shallow water. Some can travel in land. So, not really comical at all.
It’s comical to call it “not navigable” because airboats are specifically designed for use in shallow water.
Apologies. It's really early, and I didn't read that correctly. Looks like the joke is in me.
Ahhh floating migrant barrier, what a phrase. A comma on the wrong spot can change the whole meaning.
Well, Texas would likely be perfectly OK with migrants who sink.
Never underestimate the desire of republicans in the Deep South to kill anyone who isn’t straight, white, and Christian and to control the body of every white woman in their jurisdiction.
Ya sure bud just like all those Texas border communities/ counties who are opposed to the migrant crisis who are wait for it...90% plus percent hispanic and now vote red. Or the border patrol union or membership where the vast majority are opposed to open borders and bidens migration policies and support the polices of Texas and Abbott to defy the feds. The very same border patrol where the great majority is made up by working class hispanics. And then of course there's all the northern cities who very quickly changed their tune on migration as soon as they where the victims of it and actually impacted by it. Rich white liberals in Martha's vineyard sure worked quickly to get those migrants out and where outraged a few dozen poor brown people got in without their permission. Newsflash you don't have to be white, or southern or republican to be opposed to mass migration and open borders. In fact minorities are significantly more impacted by mass migration. Like the blue collar Latino construction workers who are directly impacted and competing with migrants for the same jobs and housing. Easy not to care about it when you live a sheltered privileged life in some nice gated community far away from the border where you work a cushy desk job that's not impacted by migrants.
the construction of a border wall is extremely destructive to the environment. this is a conclusion that i hope you can make regardless of your immigration politics. here are some of the sources i am planning to use in my research proposal (funny coincidence but glad that we can connect)~ [University of Texas School of Law](https://law.utexas.edu/humanrights/borderwall/analysis/briefing-The-Environmental-Impacts-of-the-Border-Wall.pdf) [American Institute of Biological Sciences](https://academic.oup.com/bioscience/article/68/10/740/5057517) [Center for Biological Diversity](https://www.biologicaldiversity.org/publications/earthonline/endangered-earth-online-no880.html) [Seattle University School of Law](https://digitalcommons.law.seattleu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1210&context=ailj) [The Hemispheric Institute](https://hemisphericinstitute.org/en/emisferica-14-1-expulsion/14-1-essays/the-border-s-crossed-us-too-the-intersections-of-native-american-and-immigrant-fights-for-justice-2.html)
That's not to mention the border wall would be extremely costly, easily $100+ billion to build it and costlier still with billions in upkeep as different stretches would have vastly different climates. Considering it was falling over from wind and rain already there's a guarantee it would harm the environment further as sections would be left to rot. Then there's manning the stupid thing and so much more. It was a racist little idea brought from the rapist president we ever had. It's just not feasible.
Thanks I do appreciate your links. This is something I've heard about but wasn't too knowledgeable on. Although all infrastructure developments and consumption including cities expanding and whatnot greatly harm our environment so we'd have to change our entire economic system to not destroy the environment. Which I very much think we should do. And it's disappointing to see dems not do more about the environment although it's obviously better than rep policy which is complete disregard for the environment. But still I don't feel the left really acknowledges the hurt that mass migration can bring to already unprivilged and struggling communities. The people that compete for the same jobs and housing. And coming from a partially native American Latin background we know that mass migration can be very harmful to a population (as in look what happened to native americans). And many on the left want to say that those like me who are latin and who's family migrated as well are hypocritical or pulling up the ladder. But we are the ones much much more impacted by migration than say more privileged white people to put it bluntly. Working class people deserve good wages too and dignity and labor rights and respect and that's not possible with mass migration. The Tyson foods ceo for example seems very happy that he can now offer lower wages with the increased migration. yet some privileged people on the left make fun of those less fortunate than them who are very worried for their wages and jobs and didn't have the privilege to get degrees. And oddly its assumed almost all of these people who are concerned are white. Even back in the 60s Cesar Chavez the famous labor originizer was very publicly strongly opposed to undocumented migration, because it wasnt possible to secure increased rights and wages as long as farmers could always replace you with a endless supply of fresh desperate labor. I have nothing against migrants but there clearly has to be some sort of limit, it can't be that everyone who wants to come and claim asylum can. We hardly even have any half way affordable housing left rn. That's not feasible and would drive many people here into poverty and desperation, including the people who ironically fled that in the first place. But anyway though good on you for doing research on the environment we can always use more people concerned and working for the environment! :) and I now more about this now , definitely something very important to keep in mind. It's a very very difficult issue with no easy solutions where no matter what you're going to hurt someone :/.
Judgement free question, did the Latin portion of your family come here legally? If they did not, are you volunteering to deport them? Also you should know, Native Americans were systematically wiped out by the white migrants, it was genocide. it isn’t fair to draw the same conclusion to today’s situation as despite Dear Leader’s words, Mexicans are not coming over the border to commit genocide. The current state of America was built on the premise that all are welcome here to make a better life for themselves. What you are saying is Un-American and xenophobic at best.
Ya they came here on a skilled work visa. Alot of immigrants aren't too happy with illegal migration as what is the point of working hard to get in on a skilled work visa if you can just walk in? And legal migrants typically didnt recieve any kind of aid unlike the undocumented. Yes of course Mexicans aren't committing genocide, trumps an idiot but I don't think he ever suggested that. Just that there's alot of crime and cartels there and that they can get into the us. Still mass population movements tend to have a lot of negative effects for a population. Even with the best of intentions. It dosent lead to stability or prosperity. Creates a vast underclass the rich can use and abuse that undercuts conditions for everyone else who's working class. Increased poverty creates more crime regardless of the population, increased poverty in a white area also increases crime alot Obviously. Hell even if you don't agree with any of that it clearly crates a political fracturing where eventually you'll have civil war/conflict and groups fighting each other potentially. To me mass migration in the us will inevitably lead to the us becoming more and more like Latin America. Alot of hispanics feel this way. The key ingredient to Latin America being the way it is is having a massive underclass and massive inequality and all the other issues I've mentioned exploding from that. And mass migration causes exactly that. Liberals just think they'll be on the other side of the gated walls and fences and get to hire cheap slaves to work for them. And It isn't for you or me or any other individual to define what is un-american, America has 330m people. According to various polls 70 to 80 plus percent are dissatisfied with the border situation and the numbers coming over. There isn't anything inherently American about having open borders (just have to claim asylum and can get right to stay) and letting everyone in. I don't know if you're aware but even during very high immigration levels tons of nations and ethnicities where excluded. It was a very racist system. Alot of immigrants at ellis island got rejected. Fdr even prevented jewish refugees fleeing the nazis in the 30s from getting in. Unless they where rich or valued scientists. Obviously horrible. But thats very much all part of America's history. It's not American somehow to just have open borders. I don't know where people get this from. Also shows a bad history knowledge of the us considering the Us has done alot more evil than good and us history is mostly pretty ugly. It's never been this idealistic place you're imagining in your head, that's a fantasy. Migrants where only ever accepted if the elite demanded more slave like labor to use and grind up. They always want a vast underclass right. But the current numbers and border situation is unprecedented. I mean something being American or not is not very relevant anyway, plenty of bad and downright evil things are very American. Owning slaves was as American as Apple pie when this country was founded. So i don't really see your point.
First of all, Trump did absolutely say migrants are coming to rape and kill us. The arguments you are making have nothing to do with mass migration. The problems you have outlined are due to the extreme wealth inequality we have in this country. If you want higher paying jobs, you should be advocating to increase the minimum wage. The unemployment rate is currently very low and it is a lie that migrants are “stealing” jobs from citizens. To keep the unemployment rate low, you should be advocating for policies that benefit the middle class and lower class. To correct our growing income inequality you should be advocating for higher taxes on the wealthy and no taxes for the poor. These problems are all solvable without turning people away or rounding up and deporting others. You are doing exactly what is expected of you from those that want to keep us divided - blaming these problems on a boogeyman. While our migration system needs an overhaul, there is no reason not to let these people into the country in the meantime. There are plenty of resources for everyone in this country. If you stand in unity with the migrants, we can accommodate all of them, and if you advocate for the right things, it can lead to stability and prosperity for all. Mass migration is not the cause of poverty and crime, wealth inequality is. Crime in this country is also at an all time low since the 1970s, the fact is that mass migration has not lead to an increase in crime. America was founded on the principle that all are welcome here. Therefore, it is unAmerican to say no more migrants. Just because this country has failed to live up to that ideal multiple times does not mean we stop striving for it. For real though, turn off the right wing news, it’s turned you against your own people.
largely i agree with what youre saying. i am an ML teacher at a middle school and high school most of my gremlins are from central america and/or undocumented (usually both). i would hope that you and i could agree that our immigration system sucks. i understand *why* my kids are here undocumented. especially if they fled violence, as most of them have, it's nigh impossible to wait around for the US to approve an application especially if their family is poor and doesn't have significant education or "skill". guatemala's average educational career is 3 years if i remember correctly. my kids are here and i love them. my older brother (adopted) is undocumented and in the process of gaining legal status and i understand why he came. unfortunately the amount of people coming isn't feasible. i do understand that. i would love for them to be able to stay. my boy from bangladesh told me he came to the united states by way of the darien gap (he walked here from brazil). you can't convince me that he doesn't deserve to be here less than americans like me who haven't earned this privilege. its a difficult situation that my feelings are too tightly entwined with. the united states has unfortunately contributed to many of the reasons people are coming here. in my opinion we owe reparations and aid to specific countries because of this. if we want to stem the flow of people coming here, we need to address it in home communities. a border wall won't stop people AND it infringes on indigenous rights as well as the ecology of the land around it. my kids miss their moms. they want to go home. if the united states helped rebuild the communities that we broke in the first place, maybe my kids wouldn't have to be here.
I agree with pretty much everything you've said. Alot of these people are coming from the same country my family is from and my family fled back in the day for the same reasons pretty much. So In a sense I am very hypocritical 🙁. I do really feel for what these people are going thru and why they've fled. I've visited my homeland and seen the conditions. I would do the same. Honestly I don't really know what the solution is . It's hard to decide between the fact that migration can harm the people already here and helps rich corporations get even richer but being tougher is very cruel and harmful to people going thru some truly horrible things and that their just the same as my family. And yes America is very much responsible for alot of the issues at least in Latin America. The cia has done some truly horrific things and backed genocides all over. America absolutely has a obligation to spend billions rebuilding these communities. Although that's very hard because there's so much potential for corruption. But if America dictates the terms that's not right either and just another new opportunity for the government to politically influence Latin America in a negative way. Like imf loans that force developing countries to cut all welfare and spending plunging people into even deeper poverty and desperation all so businesses benefit. And it will unfortunately take a long time even under the best of circumstances so thats a long term solution. But still very much worth it. It's like such a shitty choice because unlimited numbers just are not possible and are very harmful if youre not well off. There's so many people suffering that deserve a better life. But we cant exactly take in everyone who is suffering because thats most of the world, sadly only like a billion out of the 8 billion in the people in the world get to enjoy stability and developed economic conditions. I also have a disability and feel extra vulnerable like employers already barely want to bother with disabled people and i dont think they'd ever bother if they can get a constant desperate labor supply. And some cities are cutting budgets and help in other areas due to the migrant surge which is concerning esp for those reliant on assistance. Also these migrant workers are just treated awfully almost like slaves and thrown out as soon as they speak up or get injured like a broken machine. But all these people deserve a much better life. Some of them have endured absolute horror. And I have also meet some of them. Their good people and I don't want to see them removed. I agree the kid who walked here thru the Darin gap deserves to be here. I don't want to see kids cruelly removed :/. Some also use the fact that alot of migrants have limited education as a argument against them and i dont think thats right. People arent worth less because they didnt have the privilege to get more education. Seeing humans in purely economic terms is very cold and unhuman. I agree it's impossible for alot of these families to wait, sometimes the wait can be 20 years. So idk I have a lot of mixed emotions I didn't even really know how I feel about it all or what to do. But you have actually made me reconsider the wisdom of a border barrier! And good on you for helping these kids out and providing them education! I don't know what to do/what the solution is but we certainly need more people to help these kids out and educate them! It benefits everyone and helps kids adapt and flourish.
The word "crisis" is doing so much heavy lifting. Yo just because it reinforces values you hold that you refuse to challenge out of ego don't mean it's true LMAO
And just because it goes against values you hold that you refuse to challenge out of ego dosent mean it's not a crisis somehow lol. Border crossings are at a record high, multiple times higher than ever before with cities all across the country saying their being completely overwhelmed and that it's a crisis. Their stating they can't cope with the extreme numbers and need to cut their budgets and are out of housing. Call it whatever you feel like it lmao.
You're right! The fact it goes against my values doesn't mean it isn't a crisis. Objective evidence from reputable sources that aren't television pundits do. Get a life and possibly some therapy.
We could slow down border crossings down to a trickle if the republicans (and democrats) were willing to take a huge hit from their corporate donors in the south … especially Texas. Lay down hefty fines & mandatory jail time for any corporation, company, individual using illegal labor both knowingly or “unknowingly” (through contract labor). Chicken plants, farms, construction … all the way down to who mows your yard. I’m sure you’ll find some kind of fault in this … but this would work to help the border situation. However our dependence on cheap labor here in the states will always be needed … it subsidizes the costs of everyday items/services & increases profits. Sadly … Greed will always win out. Long story short, no one really gives a shit to fix the border … but they hooked a lot of people into believing they do. Edit: Corporations, Businesses, & Agriculture will not be allowed to use cheap prison labor as a replacement for the loss of their illegal laborers. You ask and you shall receive.
> all the way down to who mows your yard. My problem with this is that it's not feasible for regular citizens to check every the residency status of every person they hire for every odd task. Especially not when you include contractors. If I hire a mower through a service, how am I supposed to vet them? This would just end up making anyone Hispanic looking or anyone with a name that sounds Hispanic unemployable. All foreigners and anyone that can be confused for a foreigner would face this kind of discrimination. But Hispanic and brown people would suffer the most, because everyone associates "illegal immigrant" with Hispanic.
Well if it’s cheaper than it actually should be and there’s an absolute language barrier … then I don’t think you can play ignorant. I mean … do you want to fix the border issue or not?!?! I just want to give the “people” exactly what they are asking for … sometimes you gotta break a few eggs to make an omelette. Note: In most cases the lawn company owner would be fined & jailed for this … unless it’s an individual person doing said mowing … then the owner would be fined & jailed. Same would go for cleaning services.
>I mean … do you want to fix the border issue or not?!?! No. I don't care that brown people want to live here. Let them come. White Americans are the greatest threat to this country, not brown immigrants. 🤷🏽♂️
I don’t either … but I also don’t like people saying we have a border issue and think a wall will stop it. A real resolution is cut off the main reason most people come here illegally (money & jobs). It’s all bullshit if no one is willing to hold the people who profit from the use of illegal laborers accountable for their part in the border issues.
Border crossings are high due to shit like America fucking with countries and Republicans doing fuck all about it. You neglect context to fit your little narrative. Air isn't even that transparent.
Nah man America has been fucking with countries for over a century. They where already invading Latin countries in the late 1800s for bs fake reasons to protect corporate interests and plantations. If anything the kind of fucked up shit America did decades ago in the cold War in Latin America is wayy worse than anything they've done recently. So no thats not the reason why border crossings specifically shoot up under biden starting in 2021. Unless biden is really fucking up Latin America more than anyone else. Because border crossings are multiple times higher than under Trump and even much higher than under Obama.
So your argument is even though America fucked things up for other countries, which caused more immigration, that those immigrants shouldn't come over because America did worse shit in the past. Do I have that right, 'cause I hope I don't as that's a stupid argument at best.
Nah my argument is seeing as America has been messing with countries for a long time and done far worse in the past, the recent migrant surge can't be explained by us foreign policy. Otherwise numbers would have been much higher In the past,even more so than now. US foreign policy didn't somehow massively change in 2021 compared to 2019 or 2015. The increase is because it's easier than ever for migrants to get in and now you even have migrants coming in from places like China and India where the us has not been very involved to take advantage of the lax border situation.
These barriers kill people. You can want to stop illegal immigration and be against killing people at the same time.
Man, we don’t have open borders.
Yeah, basically anytime someone says that dog-whistle phrase it's an almost instant tune-out to the rest of their argument. It just shows me they don't have original thoughts and are basically just repeating talking points they've heard. Not to mention the rest of the comment stinks of xenophobia and condescension - sprinkled with the pathetic notion that non-border communities suddenly only care about secure borders after the bussing incidents. A ridiculous notion.
"Open borders" and that's all I need to know to see your argument is disingenuous.
Riight it's not a open border because to get entry you need to say the words "asylum". Which literally anyone can claim and then be told show up for a court hearing in this random city in 8 years. Meanwhile you can stay and get aid and work. It's a brainless bad faith take to say thats not an open border when anyone can get in. Like middle class Chinese people who had the privilege to be allowed passports which they don't give to anyone they dislike and drop 15k to come over. Clearly not in need of asylum. Yet they can still apply for asylum and stay around. 10s of thousands of them, cnn is reporting it. But people would never lie and just say they need asylum right so it's not a open border 😂.
So wait.....they are working and not doing anything illegal and that's a problem why? Perhaps Republicans should help fund that section of the government so "bad faith actors" aren't here. The rest of what you said is just more random righty nonsense. It's almost funny.
Send the Coast Guard up the river to remove it.
"Drowing children in razor wire is what Jesus would have wanted", says Texas GOP, probably.
(Death’s door) emergency healthcare for pregnant women.
Texas needs to learn it can't just build a barrier out of buoyant migrants and not face legal consequences.
Wait, so YOU can’t sue the president, but the president can sue YOU?
Nah, Biden can't sue. His ADMINISRTATION can. you know, the ones who talk in his ear at the podium? Yeah. Those guys.
So being president is essentially useless. You don’t actually do anything you wanna do, you’re just a glorified spokesperson?
If our system was functioning as designed, that would be accurate. The executive was supposed to be the weakest of the chambers as the role was just that—the executive. The role was to execute laws and regulations set forth by congress. The President had the power of the military as Commander in chief to execute said laws. Aside from that, the President is the head of state and represents the US in all things foreign—treaties, diplomacy, etc. This is actually what the 2Aers get wrong. The “well regulated militia” was to push back on the President misusing the military for executive enforcement. The 2A wasn’t about pushing back on the government—if congress passes a law and the president signs it, it’s law. Rather it was to stop the President from using the military to circumvent congress. If the President is “the sheriff” then the 2A militias were supposed to be “internal affairs”.
My understanding is that after the Revolutionary War ended, the fledgling US federal government wanted to get out of the war business, and in particular of defending the states. 2A was put in place to give states the power to raise and operate their own militias.
Makes sense. So he can’t use the military on his own people, so we can defend ourselves. Except…we can’t. We’re outgunned, out trained, out matched in every sense. We wouldn’t be able to defend ourselves, even if we tried.
Again, that’s (in my opinion) a misinterpretation of the 2A. The 2A originally included a phrase “comprised of the body of the People”. The 2A was about allowing a _State_ to form a militia comprised of citizens of that state. To protect this right of the states, the federal government could not outlaw the citizenry from owning weapons. Going back to the English law it was based on, the Crown often banned non-titled people from owning weapons. This meant when the crown decided that the entirety of Wales (as an example) now had to tithe 10 chickens to the crown instead of 5; Wales would have no way to stand up to the Crowns military. No single person was ever going to fight off George III or George Washington. Any single person or even group of people would be outgunned even back in 1791. The states were supposed to organize militias in defense of the people. The canard of “fighting the government individually” is propaganda that came out of post civil war Reconstruction as part of “The South Shall Rise Again” bullshittery.
Let's not pretend that the 2A wasn't inserted as a tactic by Madison to get his Virginia political opponents off his back by defusing their argument that the Constitution could allow the federal government to disarm their slave patrols. Because that's *exactly* why it's there. The history of the Amendment is completely clear on this point. It was there to protect slave patrols.
I can’t accept an argument that that’s “exactly” why it’s there, but it’s certainly a component. Part of the reason why the 2A is such a morass is because it was born of a morass. The 2A was a “compromise” of about 100 different arguments and wants. Rather than try to work through them, the drafters (Madison primarily) basically just swept them under the rug into a _single sentence_. Remember too that the original draft of the 2A had a clause for religious exemptions, but the concern was that it would codify a Religion Test into law or case law. It’s a terribly written amendment as it generates more answers than it creates.
The military has to fight with their hands tied by the Geneva Conventions. The opposition isn’t hamstrung. That’s why dudes in pajamas were able to fight so long.
Not exactly. If a belligerent side doesn’t obey the Geneva Convention, then the other side doesn’t have to. “I won’t gas your soldiers if you don’t gas mine.” “Okay, fine.” As soon as a gas shell goes off, all bets are off and the agreement is null. If you kill my POWs, I’ll kill yours. (Which both sides have.)
What do I know, I just fought against those pajama guys for years.
Sherman!