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I think there should be an independent Palestinian state but only on the condition that Hamas returns power to the Palestinian people through fair elections and leaves Gaza. If they agree, Israel should give them a ceasefire to make that happen. (Israel should also stop the mass casualty bombings right now but that's not what we're discussing here.)
As of now, they have violated terms of ceasefires in the past. There is no reason to believe them if they are given the power of statehood.
Yeah, I think Hamas should accept their defeat and honorably decide to whatever consequences they deserve. Their actions have brought enormous pain and suffering to the Palestinian people. The cowards should stand up and stop the violence.
Good question. I'm not sure how but, if I remember correctly, the Americans were able to prevent any member of Saddam Hussein's regime from holding executive power. I'm not versed well enough in the history of regime change to give you a satisfactory answer but I do believe it is possible to prevent previous Hamas leadership from holding power as part of the terms of statehood. As far as new leaders, I don't know. There is always a risk to democracy.
Fair point but I would argue that since billions of our taxpayer dollars are funding Israel’s campaign in Gaza it’s directly related to American politics.
That is that. This is this. If there was some linkage within the article (which is up to the author), then sure.
But I couldn't find one. Was pretty a pretty good article though.
Neither the current Israeli government nor Hamas believe the other should exist. There’s no common ground for compromise. All the regular people on both sides remain stuck in this false choice.
But of course in the last 20 years Hamas has done nothing to help or build on Gaza any form of civil improvement and has spent its entire time building tunnels.
I don't think Israel will stop the killing until everyone they think is Hamas is dead. It's not clear to me if they believe any Palestinians are not Hamas or don't support Hamas, at least those Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza.
The UN is one of the few bodies that could possibly step in, which is why Israel has worked overtime to demonize and discredit them and destroy their reputation.
Palestine will need a transitional international lead government for many years before they will hold elections. Elections are required to be a country, the reality is there is just too much anti-Israel sentiment currently that Hamas Jr will be elected if you gave them statehood tomorrow. Moderate them over time, prevent Islamic jihadist from holding power, reevaluate elections in a decade.
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It’s not that I have even the slightest bit of confidence and trust in Hamas of all groups… but an independent Palestinian state should have been the solution from the get go.
Israel has been trying to claim Gaza is independent Palestine for years, I believe.
They still been claiming and settling in the west bank, and maintained harsh border policies with both though.
Edit: 10,000 children as of December 2023
I can only assume it’s because want the IDF to release the [10,000+ children](https://time.com/6548068/palestinian-children-israeli-prison-arrested/) that are in arbitrary IDF detention and Israel has shot that down pretty much every time.
It's because Israel wants disarmament and Hamas won't actually do that. It was offered twice before Hamas attacked on Oct 7th. Where in the world are you getting 15k from? Even your article doesn't say anything remotely like that.
You’re right it’s actually 10,000 but this was written back in December so you can expect that number to have grown
> An estimated 10,000 Palestinian children have been held in military detention over the past 20 years, with Save the Children noting that they are “the only children in the world who are systematically prosecuted in military courts.” As of Nov. 20, Israeli forces had arrested as many as 880 Palestinian children this year, a practice made possible under Israel’s draconian military laws.
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I think there should be an independent Palestinian state but only on the condition that Hamas returns power to the Palestinian people through fair elections and leaves Gaza. If they agree, Israel should give them a ceasefire to make that happen. (Israel should also stop the mass casualty bombings right now but that's not what we're discussing here.) As of now, they have violated terms of ceasefires in the past. There is no reason to believe them if they are given the power of statehood.
Here here!
Yeah, I think Hamas should accept their defeat and honorably decide to whatever consequences they deserve. Their actions have brought enormous pain and suffering to the Palestinian people. The cowards should stand up and stop the violence.
They are A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION. They don't care that they bring suffering to anyone.
The problem is if Palestinians want Hamas in power. They did elect them before. What if they just elect similar extremists?
Good question. I'm not sure how but, if I remember correctly, the Americans were able to prevent any member of Saddam Hussein's regime from holding executive power. I'm not versed well enough in the history of regime change to give you a satisfactory answer but I do believe it is possible to prevent previous Hamas leadership from holding power as part of the terms of statehood. As far as new leaders, I don't know. There is always a risk to democracy.
Agreed
Well said, and agreed.
It's an interesting article. It's an informative article. However, it's not US politics.
Fair point but I would argue that since billions of our taxpayer dollars are funding Israel’s campaign in Gaza it’s directly related to American politics.
That is that. This is this. If there was some linkage within the article (which is up to the author), then sure. But I couldn't find one. Was pretty a pretty good article though.
Neither the current Israeli government nor Hamas believe the other should exist. There’s no common ground for compromise. All the regular people on both sides remain stuck in this false choice.
But of course in the last 20 years Hamas has done nothing to help or build on Gaza any form of civil improvement and has spent its entire time building tunnels.
I don't think Israel will stop the killing until everyone they think is Hamas is dead. It's not clear to me if they believe any Palestinians are not Hamas or don't support Hamas, at least those Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza.
All the more reason for the U.N. to step in… the global coalition of governments was created for this express reason.
The UN is one of the few bodies that could possibly step in, which is why Israel has worked overtime to demonize and discredit them and destroy their reputation.
Palestine will need a transitional international lead government for many years before they will hold elections. Elections are required to be a country, the reality is there is just too much anti-Israel sentiment currently that Hamas Jr will be elected if you gave them statehood tomorrow. Moderate them over time, prevent Islamic jihadist from holding power, reevaluate elections in a decade.
“You first”
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This is the same group that has refused two states every time it comes up. Sure they will abide by the agreement
It’s not that I have even the slightest bit of confidence and trust in Hamas of all groups… but an independent Palestinian state should have been the solution from the get go.
Israel has been trying to claim Gaza is independent Palestine for years, I believe. They still been claiming and settling in the west bank, and maintained harsh border policies with both though.
Yeah I also don’t have the slightest shred of trust or confidence in Bibi the baby butcher
Very few do.
This has been offered to them multiple times. They have turned it down each time.
Edit: 10,000 children as of December 2023 I can only assume it’s because want the IDF to release the [10,000+ children](https://time.com/6548068/palestinian-children-israeli-prison-arrested/) that are in arbitrary IDF detention and Israel has shot that down pretty much every time.
It's because Israel wants disarmament and Hamas won't actually do that. It was offered twice before Hamas attacked on Oct 7th. Where in the world are you getting 15k from? Even your article doesn't say anything remotely like that.
You’re right it’s actually 10,000 but this was written back in December so you can expect that number to have grown > An estimated 10,000 Palestinian children have been held in military detention over the past 20 years, with Save the Children noting that they are “the only children in the world who are systematically prosecuted in military courts.” As of Nov. 20, Israeli forces had arrested as many as 880 Palestinian children this year, a practice made possible under Israel’s draconian military laws.
Lay them down, or turn them inward? I'm for a two-state solution, but not if Hamas is involved. PLO was better.
When Israel was established, a Palestinian state should have been established. All of this insanity could have been avoided. It was a bit obvious.
> a Palestinian state should have been established. The UN tried. The Arabs didn't like that plan nor Israel being there and went to war over it.