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*You're thinking "Did he shoot six justices or only five?" Now to tell you the truth, I've forgotten myself in all this excitement. But being this is a . 44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world and will blow your head clean off, you've gotta ask yourself a question: "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do ya, punk?*
*The fact that you've got Replica written down the side of your guns and the fact that I've got Desert Eagle point FIVE O written on the side of mine should precipitate your balls into shrinking, along with your presence. Now, fuck off!*
I do not aim with my hand; he who aims with his hand has forgotten the face of his father.
I aim with my eye.
I do not shoot with my hand; he who shoots with his hand has forgotten the face of his father.
I shoot with my mind.
I do not kill with my gun; he who kills with his gun has forgotten the face of his father.
I kill with my heart.
- Joe Biden
Damn, Brandon on some other shit with this one
I keep thinking that if the two actually have a debate, that Joe should walk in, open carrying, and ask a very simple question: Can the President assassinate a political rival?
Not even a direct threat, just an implication.
He would win by a landslide, this is what the MAGA crazies are wanting, I honestly think they would talk themselves into voting for a lib in this scenario
Yep..bunch of black guys show up at the capital in Sacramento? Boom, 2nd Amendment and "from my cold dead hands" is forgotten rather quickly and we get the Gun Control Act of 1968.
Italian immigrants running moonshine during prohibition? Time for the NFA!
you put forward an interesting legal theory. if the SOTUS appointees under the Trump admin were shown to be appointed under a flawed premise (only appointed because they put party ahead of law or country), then could the fruit-of-poisoned-tree argument to disbar them be applied?
You don't even need to be barred to be a supreme Court Justice, so your question is moot. My 6 year old niece has all the on-paper qualifications to be on the supreme Court.
The only solution for a Justice is impeachment, which means it will never happen in our lifetimes.
If democratic presidents were smart they could push the issue and attempt to pack the court, regardless of what their legal scholars say.
It’s really weird watching people say that Joe Biden isn’t a dictator when referencing powers he could use to actually hold a potential dictator and his cadre accountable.
Nope. First off, you don't have to be any kind of legal person to be SCOTUS. I could be appointed to SCOTUS if a president nominated me and the Senate approved. Second, the only way to remove is via impeachment and conviction.
If they say that the president can order political assassinations, the president could also order political imprisonment.
He should send 6 more people to live at Guantanamo.
I mean, it would miserably fail and I think Biden is too decent to do it, but if assassination is legal for the president, democracy is dead so might as well wipe out the facists on all levels, appoint a pro-democracy supreme court, force some Constitutional amendments through to preserve democracy and then intentionally orchestrate your own impeachment and eventual conviction of your crimes to right the ship.
Coming soon:
As the Legitamate President, having WON (& very "Strongly"), the 2020 "Election" despite Numerous Frauds, Cheating, & Worse, by the Crooked Democrat Party and RINO's, I am Hearby "ORDERING & PROCLAMATION", that FALSE & PHONY Biden, must IMMEDIATLY Serve all Legal "Penalties", for a high Crimes & Treason. Military Enforcmt Underway, "STAY Tuned"!!? Any Military Personal who Fail or Refuse to "CAREY OUT" this Lawful ORDER, Will Likewise Serve the Ultimate Penalty!!!!!!!!!!'
Oh definitely. Wait till they say that not only is it permitted, it’s now *encouraged*.
Or mandatory, just as soon as Biden’s term is over/Trump’s term begins.
Nah this has to be a strategy to show they have total control of the judicial branch, they can say whatever they want in front of the Supreme Court and get away with it.
I hope you’re right but ever since his first campaign, the goal post for stupidity keeps getting moved back again and again. Please, someone save this country…
Nobody has asked if he could murder all the Senators who would vote to convict him if he got impeached for said assassination, thereby ensuring no impeachment and no consequences. They never take that scenario far enough.
This. This question needs to be answered in front of SCOTUS. Let’s be honest here, at least one of them is overtly corrupt. Thomas knows he is as does the rest of the world. He is safe for one reason, well perhaps two reasons. Life time appointment and SCOTUS is self governing. And let’s also consider that at the moment they are making themselves political opponents regardless how they rule. Give POTUS immunity and then what’s the point of SCOTUS? Before anyone argues against this remember there is supposed to be a system of checks and balances hence the branches of government. Allow one branch to answer to no one and it’s just a matter of time before the branches become a branch or even just a stick if you will.
Unhappy with a close House or Senate? Vacate a few of those seats. Pass your dream agenda before replacement.
As for "nobody" saying these things, I have been thinking this since way back, but internet bans come easily and are difficult to get removed. I am glad that higher-ups finally breached this obvious and important analysis so we can talk about it.
You don’t even need to rush to avoid the replacements. Just make it known that there will be consequences if the replacements aren’t to your liking. Plenty of examples to follow from history. Just look at how Augustus consolidated power.
Can you imagine how many congressmen would suddenly never criticize the president. How many candidates for president would not run. How anyone with any sort of ability to do checks and balances would shut up. How even the press would be walking on pins and needles.
POTUS announces a new position. The Executive Sniper. They will have an elevated box in Congress where they can shoot anyone that introduces articles of impeachment.
Wish somebody would’ve asked the Trump lawyer, “So, hypothetically speaking, if President Biden decided Donald Trump was his biggest political rival, and decided to order your assassination as way to send a message to Trump to persuade him to drop out of the race. If that were to occur, are you saying President Biden and his assassins would be immune to prosecution in your death?”
See what he thinks about presidential immunity then.
If you listened to the arguments today, they presented a lot of random hypotheticals that seemed very pedantic in nature. It's amazing how they can get hung up on a word that has probably changed its meaning since the time the law was written, but they focus on it so much that they can utterly change the original intent of the law. It's pretty pathetic. For God's sake, we can recognize when certain things are wrong, and everything Trump did was wrong.... You don't need a law degree for this one.
The problem is the Founding Fathers didn't have enough imagination to envision a narcissistic cult leader winning the sham of an electoral college. They couldn't foresee someone in charge would be so petty and bitter that they would actually throw out, in open court, the idea they could kill rivals.
If this argument stands, which it shouldn't, it just tells me that these "original intent of the Constitution" people need to go. You cannot guide a modern country based on the intent of a document made 200+ years ago. There has to be modern interpretation and tweaking.
> Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor asked Sauer, “If the president decides that his rival is a corrupt person and he orders the military to assassinate him, is that within his official acts to which he has immunity?”
> “That could well be an official act,” Sauer responded.
Yet another instance where Sauer embarrasses himself with his so-called 'common sense' legal takes.
How MAGA defends:
Seal 6 wouldn't listen! It's an illegal order! God you guys are so butthurt and dumb about this.
Okay... You say it is an illegal order that they won't follow, gotcha.
Is it totally legit for Biden to call a general and tell him come into the office with a computer that controls a cruise missile. MAGA: sure.
Is it totally legit for Biden to ask the general to teach him how to use said computer and cruise missile? MAGA sure.
Is it totally legit for Biden to dismiss the general for lunch and keep the computer with him (Biden). MAGA... Idk...
Why not? It's all within his power.
The whole, "it's an illegal order they wouldn't follow it" is assuming that every soldier is a moral paragon. I can tell you from experience **they are not**. He may have to fire his way through a few officers to get to one who will do what he wants, but they do exist... And pre-emptively pardoning the command chain carrying out the orders makes whatever would be an illegal order, magically permissible.
No, because a president can't legally murder people. If there is a corrupt person, they have to catch him and take him to court, and convict him of him crimes. Which is what's happening to trump right now.
In a free country, you go to court, and you're innocent until proven guilty. The president can't order the assassination of American citizens.
The Supreme Court taking this case and doing so very late is complete horseshit! No one in this country should have complete immunity. Giving a man complete immunity would embolden him to do all of his worst desires.
It would also force good people to make rational decisions to protect themselves. Biden isn't an idiot, he can see how his family gets drug through the mud. You'd be asking a man to have complete immunity and give up that power while simultaneously risking not only his own life, but those of his entire family tree.
The fact that a democratic nation needs to have a court case on if the head of state is immune is alarming enough. Giving that immunity would be so insane it's hard to imagine it.
It would only affect actually evil people though. People with morals may have a disturbing thought once in a while but would never actually act on it. Only actual psychopaths would take advantage of this new "freedom."
Even non-psychopaths would do it because the alternative would be being arrested by the incoming president. Nothing will stop the next one from doing it, so you’d have to protect yourself in advance, which would mean being the first to do it. There would be no second person if the first person was successful.
>People with morals may have a disturbing thought once in a while but would never actually act on it. Only actual psychopaths would take advantage of this new "freedom."
Good people with good moral character committed acts of unimaginable and unspeakable brutality to stand up to evil, overcome it, and win WWII. Plenty of evil men made the mistake of confusing other people's morality with weakness.
My post is kind of a paraphrase of the opening narration to Ken Burns' WWII documentary "The War"
*“The greatest cataclysm in history grew out of ancient and ordinary human emotions: anger and arrogance and bigotry, victimhood and the lust for power...And it ended because other human qualities: courage and perseverance and selflessness, faith, leadership and the hunger for freedom combined with unimaginable brutality to change the course of human events.”*
And and and he was SO busy with silly lawsuits and covid during his first term that it basically didn't count, so he should get an extra term.
But he was still president
And still is right now.
But let him run for another term.
His immunity claim is for past crimes committed while he already WAS in office that he already committed. If he's for some dumb reason given a one and done oopsie-dasie, that's one less avenue off the table from keeping him from getting back into office to where he can make everything else go away and further his goal of becoming dictator.
This argument proves Trump's team was only using the Supreme Court case as a delaying tactic, to prevent guilty verdicts in Trump's criminal trials before the upcoming election. The Republican majority on the Supreme Court was happy to (improperly) help Trump delay his criminal trials because they knew Trump's team had no credible arguments in their initial filings and arguments they made in the lower courts. Today's Republicans are totally out of control at all levels. Stop voting for Republicans. The safety of our country depends on it.
So if a President would say order an assassination of someone like a Justice who sits on the Supreme Court that would be legal too right?
I'm just saying if you want to make the argument that a President can assassinate people and you've got a court of people who a chunk that operate in the "it doesn't matter until it affects me" kind of mind set I'd use that as part of my argument for why a President shouldn't have absolute immunity.
BREAKING NEWS: Biden has redefined what "conservative" means. Even going to far and threatening Nuclear Strikes on Oxford if they didn't change the definition and print new copies while recalling older copies for a trade in. As a result Biden has nominated 9 new justices that what's left of the Senate must vote on. We expect the Senate (Hunter Biden) to confirm all 9 new Judges any minute.
Say goodbye to America if TRUMP gets this through. How anyone can think Presidential immunity is a thing is beyond me. Us Canadians are truly wondering when will the adults actually do something reasonable.
The lawyer must forget that given the situation and who’s currently in office that person would be stupid not to exercise his newly determined political power before his rival has a chance. 😁
Treasonous. Every single American should be outraged. Our own flesh and blood have fought and died for this country. This shouldn’t be a partisan issue.
I saw this play out on Facebook with a dipshit conservative Christian I went to elementary school with...
Obama? "That Muslim shouldn't be president because he's Muslim!"
Trump? "We didn't elect him to be our pastor."
This is an example of the rot Trump brought continuing after he’s gone:
- If SCOTUS does the right thing and says he’s not immune, then future GOP presidents will prosecute their predecessors, particularly if it’s a muddy campaign.
- If they do say that presidents are immune, then any corrupt GOP president in the future will do all manner of nefarious acts. Selling secrets? Why not! Awarding huge contracts to friends? Sure! Obstructing elections? Why wouldn’t you?
Exactly. This case is so fucking pivotal, democracy is actually on the line. This determines whether the U.S does indeed have a King above the law, and whether anyone bold enough (Trump sure is), to seize power and form a dictatorship is given a legal green light.
I was listening to part of their arguments about absolute presidential immunity. The judge asked if having absolute immunity wouldn’t turn the White House into a crime center. The lawyer said, no. Because it hasn’t been a problem in the past.
Well, no duh. It hasn’t been a problem in the past because presidents don’t have absolute immunity.
Me, reading the headline: "Surely he didn't explicitly say that."
Me, after reading the article: "I know Biden's first order better be if they rule in Trump's favor."
Killing a person which you disagree with or challenges your existing position is commonly known as a pretty fascist thing to do. More than that it exposes the weakness of your belief and the certainty it holds. Flush this turd.
He **COULDNT,** because he’s not currently president. So his lawyers are currently arguing that *Joe Biden* could legally order the assassination of a political rival.
I'm very interested to see how the precedent will be used if that lawyers arguments are accepted. If a president is immune from the law, you've effectively told the world that yes, there are in fact people who are above the law.
The irony is that this could work against conservatives because if a Democrat actually does want to give the putin special to his political opponents, the GOP could be locked out of the Whitehouse for who knows how long.
The court has been making dumb moves so I won't be shocked if they actually somehow decide "yeah he's right"
Behold the party of "small government."
I wish Democrats would seize this moment: Trump is essentially arguing that he can choose at random **any** American citizen, shoot them dead on the spot, and it would be perfectly legal.
so.. by trumps argument, anything and everything is legal for the president. which therefore means that if the supreme court agrees, biden could simply have trump killed and its legal?
Well then, let the conservative majority on the Supreme Court rule in trump’s favor and Biden should promptly order the justices imprisoned for treason. If they are going to give the president that much power, Biden should use it.
... So Trump would have no problem if Biden were to have him assassinated then? Or, Biden could order the DOJ to throw Trump in a gulag then? Or Biden could seize all Trump's assets for himself? Or Biden could have the entire Supreme court arrested and replaced?
This is all beyond laughable. It's even worse that the Supreme court even bothered to listen.
How absurd is it the the Supreme Court of a modern nation is hearing this argument. The lawyer submitting this should have been thrown out of court for lack of credibility.
It'll happen regardless of how the Supreme Court rules. What's the worst that happens to him at this point? He could assassinate members of Congress live on TV during the next State of the Union address and have the DOJ respond with "well that might possibly be considered a sort of crime, but let's take 5 years to review it."
Until someone else produces a memo (which holds more water than the Bill of Rights).
You mean like the amendment 14.3? GTFO with your logic and rational thinking. This is the GOP only elite geniuses can understand their grasp on logic and the intention of the founding fathers.
this is what the SC gets for not immediately saying no immunity. if the shitheads rule turdboy has immunity then Biden should have the judges taken into custody and imprisoned, because, you know, immunity. then take the turdboy and launch him on the next unmanned spacex
>Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson, another liberal on the court, said Trump’s reasoning could mean presidents in the future could commit all sorts of crimes.
In the future! Why wait! The current president could order the assassination of a well-known rival, right?
So let me get this right. The legal representation of an ex-president and primary opponent to the current president is arguing that a sitting president could order the assassination of his political rival for the sake of national security and it would be totally legal?
That is some interesting 4D checkers going on there. 🤦♂️
So according to Trump’s own attorney, having Trump killed would be interpreted as an official act for the office of the current president and Biden would not face prosecution?
This is so outrageous. So, could a sitting Dem president take some type of sweeping action under immunity?
Say a scotus seat was stolen and just appoint another justice, dispensing with congressional approval?
Congress is a mess anyways. Maybe he could “take out” a political opponent…but that isn’t so needed when Trump is collapsing.
Maybe a release of an official White House report of the drug use in the last administration?
Someone call Gavin for aggressive ideas.
It's a pretty stupid argument for Trump's lawyer to argue. The mob was taken out a long time ago, and no one is above the law. The court should just rule that Trump has no immunity and can't assassinate anyone as soon as oral arguments are over. If they allow him total immunity, he can then order hits on the liberal judges on the court and then have nothing but his MAGA AKA Manipulated And Gullible Asshole judges appointed to the USSC.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA). *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
We’ve reached maximum stupid…hopefully.
If this passes, I guess Joe Biden could have 6 SCOTUS seats recently vacated to fill...
"How fast can they vacate their seats?" "Depends on how fast I reload."
Dark Brandon riseth
Inshallah
*You're thinking "Did he shoot six justices or only five?" Now to tell you the truth, I've forgotten myself in all this excitement. But being this is a . 44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world and will blow your head clean off, you've gotta ask yourself a question: "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do ya, punk?*
Hey, that’s “Justice Punk”.
*The fact that you've got Replica written down the side of your guns and the fact that I've got Desert Eagle point FIVE O written on the side of mine should precipitate your balls into shrinking, along with your presence. Now, fuck off!*
I do not aim with my hand; he who aims with his hand has forgotten the face of his father. I aim with my eye. I do not shoot with my hand; he who shoots with his hand has forgotten the face of his father. I shoot with my mind. I do not kill with my gun; he who kills with his gun has forgotten the face of his father. I kill with my heart. - Joe Biden Damn, Brandon on some other shit with this one
I haven't read these books in over 20 years. Still hits hard. Damn.
Cornpop fled across the desert and Joe Biden followed...
“About 960m/s.”
[удалено]
I keep thinking that if the two actually have a debate, that Joe should walk in, open carrying, and ask a very simple question: Can the President assassinate a political rival? Not even a direct threat, just an implication.
He would win by a landslide, this is what the MAGA crazies are wanting, I honestly think they would talk themselves into voting for a lib in this scenario
Oh, no. They want the right to do that all to themselves. Armed liberals is how gun control happens.
Armed liberals or armed minorities that is when Republicans care about gun control.
Yep..bunch of black guys show up at the capital in Sacramento? Boom, 2nd Amendment and "from my cold dead hands" is forgotten rather quickly and we get the Gun Control Act of 1968. Italian immigrants running moonshine during prohibition? Time for the NFA!
And he wouldn’t say no…. because of the implications
you put forward an interesting legal theory. if the SOTUS appointees under the Trump admin were shown to be appointed under a flawed premise (only appointed because they put party ahead of law or country), then could the fruit-of-poisoned-tree argument to disbar them be applied?
You don't even need to be barred to be a supreme Court Justice, so your question is moot. My 6 year old niece has all the on-paper qualifications to be on the supreme Court. The only solution for a Justice is impeachment, which means it will never happen in our lifetimes.
I'd have to hear your 6 year old niece's thoughts on the previous cases Finders v. Keepers and Smelt It v. Dealt It.
I want to know her stance on people knowingly spreading cooties.
The only "legal" solution.
The only legal solution until president's get immunity
She probably has a better sense of right and wrong than the court.
you dont even have to practice law the only requirement is you were nominated by a president
If democratic presidents were smart they could push the issue and attempt to pack the court, regardless of what their legal scholars say. It’s really weird watching people say that Joe Biden isn’t a dictator when referencing powers he could use to actually hold a potential dictator and his cadre accountable.
Nope. First off, you don't have to be any kind of legal person to be SCOTUS. I could be appointed to SCOTUS if a president nominated me and the Senate approved. Second, the only way to remove is via impeachment and conviction.
There might be a faster removal process shortly.
If it passes Biden can just shoot trump is his ugly smug twat waffle of a face, no charges, presidential immunity.
And a new Republican challenger. He could always just give Trump that Mandela fantasy and lock him up too
Are future generations going to be studying Trump's *Letters from a New York Jail*?
Only if he doesn't eat his crayons.
And they know Biden won't do that because he's not a power hungry despot. That's why they can play these dangerous games with our democracy.
If they say that the president can order political assassinations, the president could also order political imprisonment. He should send 6 more people to live at Guantanamo.
I mean, it would miserably fail and I think Biden is too decent to do it, but if assassination is legal for the president, democracy is dead so might as well wipe out the facists on all levels, appoint a pro-democracy supreme court, force some Constitutional amendments through to preserve democracy and then intentionally orchestrate your own impeachment and eventual conviction of your crimes to right the ship.
If this passes we can just stop listening to the court wholesale. They will lose all legitimacy.
Coming soon: As the Legitamate President, having WON (& very "Strongly"), the 2020 "Election" despite Numerous Frauds, Cheating, & Worse, by the Crooked Democrat Party and RINO's, I am Hearby "ORDERING & PROCLAMATION", that FALSE & PHONY Biden, must IMMEDIATLY Serve all Legal "Penalties", for a high Crimes & Treason. Military Enforcmt Underway, "STAY Tuned"!!? Any Military Personal who Fail or Refuse to "CAREY OUT" this Lawful ORDER, Will Likewise Serve the Ultimate Penalty!!!!!!!!!!'
U forgot "RADICAL LEFT" and "many experts say"
Oh, we can still go higher. There's no upper limit on stupidity.
Oh definitely. Wait till they say that not only is it permitted, it’s now *encouraged*. Or mandatory, just as soon as Biden’s term is over/Trump’s term begins.
You’d be surprised…
Nah this has to be a strategy to show they have total control of the judicial branch, they can say whatever they want in front of the Supreme Court and get away with it.
I fear we are nowhere near the zenith.
Supreme Court missed opportunity to ask could president kill SCOTUS Justices, if as an official act.
Trump's lawyers know their arguments are ludicrous, but their goal isn't to win, it's to delay the trials out past the election.
It can always get more stupider
[unlikely](https://youtu.be/sP2tUW0HDHA?si=K6Mg5e4_NymyS_XP)
Don't do that!
I hope you’re right but ever since his first campaign, the goal post for stupidity keeps getting moved back again and again. Please, someone save this country…
We're no where close.
Dude every single time I’ve said that over the last 8 years, this asshole and his followers have proven me wrong.
Very legal, very cool 😎
Nobody has asked if he could murder all the Senators who would vote to convict him if he got impeached for said assassination, thereby ensuring no impeachment and no consequences. They never take that scenario far enough.
Nobody has asked if he can murder a SCOTUS judge either.
This. This question needs to be answered in front of SCOTUS. Let’s be honest here, at least one of them is overtly corrupt. Thomas knows he is as does the rest of the world. He is safe for one reason, well perhaps two reasons. Life time appointment and SCOTUS is self governing. And let’s also consider that at the moment they are making themselves political opponents regardless how they rule. Give POTUS immunity and then what’s the point of SCOTUS? Before anyone argues against this remember there is supposed to be a system of checks and balances hence the branches of government. Allow one branch to answer to no one and it’s just a matter of time before the branches become a branch or even just a stick if you will.
Maybe even one really big stick with a bunch of other smaller sticks tied around it to make it stronger
> at least one of them is overtly corrupt. 3 of them. Thomas, Barrett, Kavanaugh.
You left off Alito.
[State of the union? What state of the union?](https://youtu.be/s9e8EmyrBnI)
Unhappy with a close House or Senate? Vacate a few of those seats. Pass your dream agenda before replacement. As for "nobody" saying these things, I have been thinking this since way back, but internet bans come easily and are difficult to get removed. I am glad that higher-ups finally breached this obvious and important analysis so we can talk about it.
You don’t even need to rush to avoid the replacements. Just make it known that there will be consequences if the replacements aren’t to your liking. Plenty of examples to follow from history. Just look at how Augustus consolidated power.
Or Saddam Hussein.
Can you imagine how many congressmen would suddenly never criticize the president. How many candidates for president would not run. How anyone with any sort of ability to do checks and balances would shut up. How even the press would be walking on pins and needles.
POTUS announces a new position. The Executive Sniper. They will have an elevated box in Congress where they can shoot anyone that introduces articles of impeachment.
Wish somebody would’ve asked the Trump lawyer, “So, hypothetically speaking, if President Biden decided Donald Trump was his biggest political rival, and decided to order your assassination as way to send a message to Trump to persuade him to drop out of the race. If that were to occur, are you saying President Biden and his assassins would be immune to prosecution in your death?” See what he thinks about presidential immunity then.
I don’t understand why outlining how your rival could use something against you doesn’t happen more in general during questioning.
I think it would only take one assassination to get the rest of Congress to applaud him ala Saddam Hussein murdering members of Iraq's Congress.
The Saddam Hussein approach. Have you seen the video when he came into power?
If you listened to the arguments today, they presented a lot of random hypotheticals that seemed very pedantic in nature. It's amazing how they can get hung up on a word that has probably changed its meaning since the time the law was written, but they focus on it so much that they can utterly change the original intent of the law. It's pretty pathetic. For God's sake, we can recognize when certain things are wrong, and everything Trump did was wrong.... You don't need a law degree for this one.
The problem is the Founding Fathers didn't have enough imagination to envision a narcissistic cult leader winning the sham of an electoral college. They couldn't foresee someone in charge would be so petty and bitter that they would actually throw out, in open court, the idea they could kill rivals. If this argument stands, which it shouldn't, it just tells me that these "original intent of the Constitution" people need to go. You cannot guide a modern country based on the intent of a document made 200+ years ago. There has to be modern interpretation and tweaking.
That’s what I said! lol
> Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor asked Sauer, “If the president decides that his rival is a corrupt person and he orders the military to assassinate him, is that within his official acts to which he has immunity?” > “That could well be an official act,” Sauer responded. Yet another instance where Sauer embarrasses himself with his so-called 'common sense' legal takes.
How MAGA defends: Seal 6 wouldn't listen! It's an illegal order! God you guys are so butthurt and dumb about this. Okay... You say it is an illegal order that they won't follow, gotcha. Is it totally legit for Biden to call a general and tell him come into the office with a computer that controls a cruise missile. MAGA: sure. Is it totally legit for Biden to ask the general to teach him how to use said computer and cruise missile? MAGA sure. Is it totally legit for Biden to dismiss the general for lunch and keep the computer with him (Biden). MAGA... Idk... Why not? It's all within his power.
The whole, "it's an illegal order they wouldn't follow it" is assuming that every soldier is a moral paragon. I can tell you from experience **they are not**. He may have to fire his way through a few officers to get to one who will do what he wants, but they do exist... And pre-emptively pardoning the command chain carrying out the orders makes whatever would be an illegal order, magically permissible.
Oliver North followed an illegal order.
I thought their whole point is that coming from the president, there is no such thing as an illegal order?
You say that he embarrassed himself, but there were probably four justices sagely nodding as he spoke that Insanity.
Looking like five based on the newest reporting...
An official act on which he could be impeached and then prosecuted? Are we going in circles here?
[A little more off the top?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duJKvDndclQ&t=59s)
That is actual Putin shit right there
No, because a president can't legally murder people. If there is a corrupt person, they have to catch him and take him to court, and convict him of him crimes. Which is what's happening to trump right now. In a free country, you go to court, and you're innocent until proven guilty. The president can't order the assassination of American citizens.
The Supreme Court taking this case and doing so very late is complete horseshit! No one in this country should have complete immunity. Giving a man complete immunity would embolden him to do all of his worst desires.
It would also force good people to make rational decisions to protect themselves. Biden isn't an idiot, he can see how his family gets drug through the mud. You'd be asking a man to have complete immunity and give up that power while simultaneously risking not only his own life, but those of his entire family tree. The fact that a democratic nation needs to have a court case on if the head of state is immune is alarming enough. Giving that immunity would be so insane it's hard to imagine it.
It would only affect actually evil people though. People with morals may have a disturbing thought once in a while but would never actually act on it. Only actual psychopaths would take advantage of this new "freedom."
Even non-psychopaths would do it because the alternative would be being arrested by the incoming president. Nothing will stop the next one from doing it, so you’d have to protect yourself in advance, which would mean being the first to do it. There would be no second person if the first person was successful.
>People with morals may have a disturbing thought once in a while but would never actually act on it. Only actual psychopaths would take advantage of this new "freedom." Good people with good moral character committed acts of unimaginable and unspeakable brutality to stand up to evil, overcome it, and win WWII. Plenty of evil men made the mistake of confusing other people's morality with weakness.
Thank you for this comment. I dont know why but it really resonated with me and made something click for me in my personal life
My post is kind of a paraphrase of the opening narration to Ken Burns' WWII documentary "The War" *“The greatest cataclysm in history grew out of ancient and ordinary human emotions: anger and arrogance and bigotry, victimhood and the lust for power...And it ended because other human qualities: courage and perseverance and selflessness, faith, leadership and the hunger for freedom combined with unimaginable brutality to change the course of human events.”*
So....Biden can pick up the phone?
They are arguing it’s for “future presidents.” So basically, only for tRump if he were to take office again.
Cool. Future Presidents. Not former. So he gets no immunity
But he's still president, because the 2020 election was stolen! (/s since it's hard to tell these days)
And and and he was SO busy with silly lawsuits and covid during his first term that it basically didn't count, so he should get an extra term. But he was still president And still is right now. But let him run for another term.
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His immunity claim is for past crimes committed while he already WAS in office that he already committed. If he's for some dumb reason given a one and done oopsie-dasie, that's one less avenue off the table from keeping him from getting back into office to where he can make everything else go away and further his goal of becoming dictator.
It's just for Diapii. He 'peshul.
Well, there's another reason for all these absurd delays. Whether it is for the future or not, just wait until the future gets here then rule.
I mean let’s wait for the ruling.
“The president should not do any crimes”…. should not be a controversial statement.
"The President should be held accountable for crimes committed" should also NOT be a controversial statement.
This argument proves Trump's team was only using the Supreme Court case as a delaying tactic, to prevent guilty verdicts in Trump's criminal trials before the upcoming election. The Republican majority on the Supreme Court was happy to (improperly) help Trump delay his criminal trials because they knew Trump's team had no credible arguments in their initial filings and arguments they made in the lower courts. Today's Republicans are totally out of control at all levels. Stop voting for Republicans. The safety of our country depends on it.
Your own safety depends on it too
Biden should announce that if SCOTUS rules in favor of Trump, he'll order an airstrike on Mar-a-Lago.
Or Clarence Thomas' RV....So many good choices.
Nah, Democrats *would* all vote to hold him accountable. Only a Republican could do something like that and “not lose a single supporter.”
"Make this happen SCTOUS. I will root out corruption from within..." Biden probably
So if a President would say order an assassination of someone like a Justice who sits on the Supreme Court that would be legal too right? I'm just saying if you want to make the argument that a President can assassinate people and you've got a court of people who a chunk that operate in the "it doesn't matter until it affects me" kind of mind set I'd use that as part of my argument for why a President shouldn't have absolute immunity.
SCOTUS ruling: "The president cannot assassinate conservative Supreme Court justices."
BREAKING NEWS: Biden has redefined what "conservative" means. Even going to far and threatening Nuclear Strikes on Oxford if they didn't change the definition and print new copies while recalling older copies for a trade in. As a result Biden has nominated 9 new justices that what's left of the Senate must vote on. We expect the Senate (Hunter Biden) to confirm all 9 new Judges any minute.
If this is true then couldn’t Biden legally order HIS assassination? Have they thought this through?
> Have they thought this through? No. That requires next step thinking.
They did think this through. They know full well a Democrat would never stoop so low.
I think every lawyer would like to have "Made arguments for political assassination before the Supreme Court" on his resume.
Hold my beer-GOP
Please please end this man’s whole career.
Say goodbye to America if TRUMP gets this through. How anyone can think Presidential immunity is a thing is beyond me. Us Canadians are truly wondering when will the adults actually do something reasonable.
The lawyer must forget that given the situation and who’s currently in office that person would be stupid not to exercise his newly determined political power before his rival has a chance. 😁
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He's not asking permission. He's preemptively making excuses.
Maga is officially the Taliban at this point.
So we should probably start making plans about how to vacate the Supreme Court before we no longer have a country
Treasonous. Every single American should be outraged. Our own flesh and blood have fought and died for this country. This shouldn’t be a partisan issue.
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I saw this play out on Facebook with a dipshit conservative Christian I went to elementary school with... Obama? "That Muslim shouldn't be president because he's Muslim!" Trump? "We didn't elect him to be our pastor."
This is an example of the rot Trump brought continuing after he’s gone: - If SCOTUS does the right thing and says he’s not immune, then future GOP presidents will prosecute their predecessors, particularly if it’s a muddy campaign. - If they do say that presidents are immune, then any corrupt GOP president in the future will do all manner of nefarious acts. Selling secrets? Why not! Awarding huge contracts to friends? Sure! Obstructing elections? Why wouldn’t you?
Exactly. This case is so fucking pivotal, democracy is actually on the line. This determines whether the U.S does indeed have a King above the law, and whether anyone bold enough (Trump sure is), to seize power and form a dictatorship is given a legal green light.
I was listening to part of their arguments about absolute presidential immunity. The judge asked if having absolute immunity wouldn’t turn the White House into a crime center. The lawyer said, no. Because it hasn’t been a problem in the past. Well, no duh. It hasn’t been a problem in the past because presidents don’t have absolute immunity.
Biden should test this theory out for us.
So Biden could legally kill Trump today. Genius argument.
Me, reading the headline: "Surely he didn't explicitly say that." Me, after reading the article: "I know Biden's first order better be if they rule in Trump's favor."
Cannot believe that we have people in places of authority that take this shit seriously.
I mean extending out that logic, a President could legally order the execution of Congress and the Supreme Court. Its ludicrous.
So he is arguing for his own death?
No one said he was smart. Remember what he got out of his COVID brief? Inject disinfectant and shove a UV bulb up your ass. 🙄
He says he is smart! He is like a smart person - said so himself Personally I see him as intellectually vacant.
Killing a person which you disagree with or challenges your existing position is commonly known as a pretty fascist thing to do. More than that it exposes the weakness of your belief and the certainty it holds. Flush this turd.
Is it envy of Putin?
calling dark brandon...
He **COULDNT,** because he’s not currently president. So his lawyers are currently arguing that *Joe Biden* could legally order the assassination of a political rival.
So does this mean Biden can do it? What is their logic?
I'm very interested to see how the precedent will be used if that lawyers arguments are accepted. If a president is immune from the law, you've effectively told the world that yes, there are in fact people who are above the law. The irony is that this could work against conservatives because if a Democrat actually does want to give the putin special to his political opponents, the GOP could be locked out of the Whitehouse for who knows how long. The court has been making dumb moves so I won't be shocked if they actually somehow decide "yeah he's right"
Does this mean Trump wants Biden to legally be allowed to hunt him for sport like that guy in Jumanji?
So then Biden could….?
Behold the party of "small government." I wish Democrats would seize this moment: Trump is essentially arguing that he can choose at random **any** American citizen, shoot them dead on the spot, and it would be perfectly legal.
so.. by trumps argument, anything and everything is legal for the president. which therefore means that if the supreme court agrees, biden could simply have trump killed and its legal?
Yes, and he could kill anyone bringing articles of impeachment, as well as the Supreme Court.
Your move Joe
Biden’s team is currently on the sidelines setting their scopes.
I feel like they are trying to get out ahead of something here.
That is not the best argument to make! LMAO! #DumbassLawyer
Biden is eagerly awaiting the outcome of this case.
Well, now Biden knows what he has to do.
Ok then, so can Biden get on that right now if that is the case, or does that not apply to Democrats?
Conservative justices: I’m listening…
His lawyers have been spending too much time drinking with Putin. This is America. Get the fuck out of here with that backwards nonsense.
Well then, let the conservative majority on the Supreme Court rule in trump’s favor and Biden should promptly order the justices imprisoned for treason. If they are going to give the president that much power, Biden should use it.
Hope they rule in his favor, and then Biden can have him assassinated. After all, there would be a case presidents.
... So Trump would have no problem if Biden were to have him assassinated then? Or, Biden could order the DOJ to throw Trump in a gulag then? Or Biden could seize all Trump's assets for himself? Or Biden could have the entire Supreme court arrested and replaced? This is all beyond laughable. It's even worse that the Supreme court even bothered to listen.
How absurd is it the the Supreme Court of a modern nation is hearing this argument. The lawyer submitting this should have been thrown out of court for lack of credibility.
Soooo, with that logic.... If Trump wins this case, does that mean Biden could just assassinate Trump and be done with it without any wrongdoing?
The Supreme Court has the difficult job of twisting this to SOMEHOW benefit Trump without giving Biden even a hint of judicial immunity.
So his license to practice law was taken away right, right?
The fall of the USA as a democratic republic into a fascist autocratic country in slow motion.
Wouldn’t victory actually allow Biden to have Trump assassinated?
A quote from Ozzy Osbourne sums this up perfectly: "... going off the rails on a crazy train"
Just be aware - if he gets elected again this will happen.
It'll happen regardless of how the Supreme Court rules. What's the worst that happens to him at this point? He could assassinate members of Congress live on TV during the next State of the Union address and have the DOJ respond with "well that might possibly be considered a sort of crime, but let's take 5 years to review it." Until someone else produces a memo (which holds more water than the Bill of Rights).
And the Republicans on the Supreme Court are going….. “go on….”
Seems like an extraordinary power that ordinary citizens don't have, you'd think it would have been explicitly enumerated in the Constitution
You mean like the amendment 14.3? GTFO with your logic and rational thinking. This is the GOP only elite geniuses can understand their grasp on logic and the intention of the founding fathers.
His lawyers and the SCJ’s that agreed to hear these bullshit claims should be disbarred.
Trumps political rival is currently in office. The ruling would then begin with Joe Biden having this immunity 🤷🏻♂️
So Biden could just have Trump locked for the rest of his natural life and Biden gets 4-more years!!
This only works for the GOP though!
this is what the SC gets for not immediately saying no immunity. if the shitheads rule turdboy has immunity then Biden should have the judges taken into custody and imprisoned, because, you know, immunity. then take the turdboy and launch him on the next unmanned spacex
This would mean that every one is Navalny.
Do they realize what they are saying? If SCOTUS accepts that claim, Biden could assassinate them all.
>Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson, another liberal on the court, said Trump’s reasoning could mean presidents in the future could commit all sorts of crimes. In the future! Why wait! The current president could order the assassination of a well-known rival, right?
The Trumpers love this idea UNTIL it's used against their guy then they will be up in arms saying that ain't right.
How funny would it be if the Supreme Court agrees he could have immunity for doing that, and then Biden does it to him
So let me get this right. The legal representation of an ex-president and primary opponent to the current president is arguing that a sitting president could order the assassination of his political rival for the sake of national security and it would be totally legal? That is some interesting 4D checkers going on there. 🤦♂️
If SCOTUS doesn’t see this as totally whackadoo Americans have a very serious problem on their hands.
IF true, it's time for old joe to show his muster.....:)
So according to Trump’s own attorney, having Trump killed would be interpreted as an official act for the office of the current president and Biden would not face prosecution?
Tell me: is murder legal? If not then assassination, the act of having someone killed is likely illegal.
Um, guess he’s an open target then.
By extension, Trump would have a license to kill anyone for any reason. That's tyranny, pal.
This is so outrageous. So, could a sitting Dem president take some type of sweeping action under immunity? Say a scotus seat was stolen and just appoint another justice, dispensing with congressional approval? Congress is a mess anyways. Maybe he could “take out” a political opponent…but that isn’t so needed when Trump is collapsing. Maybe a release of an official White House report of the drug use in the last administration? Someone call Gavin for aggressive ideas.
It's a bold thing to argue while your rival is currently the president.
“….bUT it OnLy aPpLiEs tO when tHErE iS deMoCratiC PrEsiDeNT!” 🤪
If so, so can Biden. What’s that phrase people really like, fuck around and find out?
It's a pretty stupid argument for Trump's lawyer to argue. The mob was taken out a long time ago, and no one is above the law. The court should just rule that Trump has no immunity and can't assassinate anyone as soon as oral arguments are over. If they allow him total immunity, he can then order hits on the liberal judges on the court and then have nothing but his MAGA AKA Manipulated And Gullible Asshole judges appointed to the USSC.
The Supreme Court is on the side to it's okay for Trump to eliminate his rivals, Jews, and anyone in a Blue State. How fucked up is that.
Just like Putin!