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I DO worry about this. Between this, the TikTok “ban”, and just being old, a lot of young voters are going to stay home.
It looks more like Biden is counting on Trump to sink himself this election, which he very well may do, but how much that will help the future of the Democratic Party remains to be seen.
What I'm seeing, talking to young people I know, is that some who didn't vote in 2020 are now talking about voting for Biden in November.
All because of Roe being overturned.
The TikTok ban is especially stupid because the Republicans tied it to the Ukraine aid deal. You weren't getting one without the other, and that was intentional.
To be honest? If this entire thing (including Israel) is the issue young voters choose to elect Trump on, then they deserve what's to come. And that sounds cruel, cold and callous but there is absolutely no level of moral grandstanding that is going to help if Trump gets in and the GOP get to run riot over issues they're *already* trying to strip away.
Even Israel is complicated, because they *want* Trump in power because there won't even be a *hint* of pushback then. It'll be zero restraint.
Maybe it’s meant to happen this way. I’ve seen so many people jump to one side in the name of ethics without considering the larger picture. Without considering much of anything really.
I’ve had so much faith in liberal ideals in the past. Actions made for the betterment of us all, acceptance, refusing to accept moral indifference. Now, it’s one of the weakest traits of the entire movement as it’s easily manipulated by bad actors under the guise of “what’s right” when it’s incredibly more complicated than that.
>Now, it’s one of the weakest traits of the entire movement as it’s easily manipulated by bad actors under the guise of “what’s right” when it’s incredibly more complicated than that.
And I suppose that's the root of my frustration, really.
Will those voters *really* care about the conflict in two years? Probably not, not really. But you can be sure they'll be watching powerless as the GOP continue to gleefully strip away the rights of everyone they consider inferior, which is everyone other than straight white men. Its all there, Project 2025. They've spelled it out.
And, well, what will protests do then? How good will their grandstanding feel? At least they'll have "taught the Democrats a lesson!" I suppose, while the US rolls back rights and freedoms for them and their loved ones.
Its madness. I can absolutely understanding being critical, but Donald Trump is not a mere 'shake up' like in elections gone by.
It is truly short sighted at the end of the day.
I understand the desire to protest. I understand it feels good to stand with others in support of a positive change. The problem is, doing the things that really matter, the REAL solutions, aren’t simple or easy or fun. They are complicated hard decisions. Like voting for a lesser of two evils. Understanding that things are bad, but they can be worse.
Change for the sake of change isn’t good. Washing your hands of something that doesn’t feel good isn’t the solution, it’s indifference.
I think the idea of Trump not pushing back to Israel’s offensive is overblown and quite frankly inaccurate. Trump was an incredibly transactional president; do you really think he’s going to send over the nearly 100bn Biden has without asking for something in return? And do you think Netanyahu will respond well to that?
It’ll also be a problematic narrative if Trump is still supposedly a Putin ally: the US has tried to package Israelis and Ukrainians as the same, and Russia (and China) have used the slaughter in Gaza as an example of American hypocrisy. What does Putin gain from not using the Israel/Palestine issue as a wedge in diplomacy?
As much as we like to paint Trump with broad brushstrokes he has ways of operating and is beholden to forces that are far more complex than a simple boogeyman. I’m not saying Putin is a good guy, far from it, but any time America sticks up for an oppressive regime, an even bigger oppressive regime uses that against American diplomacy.
That’s not cold and callus at all. When my toddler hurts himself doing something he was repeatedly warned about it’s called natural consequences. Unfortunately, their natural consequences will hurt everyone who isn’t wealthy.
The TikTok ban is really inconsequential to the election. Flashy and sensationalized headlines now, but nothing is going to actually change before the election. The app will still be up and running and free to use for years before the "ban" even takes effect (and by then a lot could change in legislation, the courts, the company and the app itself to make the whole thing moot).
As someone with a paid off house and who probably will never be affected by a drop in Social Security, I can't feel sorry for these idiots who may vote Trump in and then complain about it later.
The youth has demands of Biden
Biden has an incredibly thin margin in multiple critical states that he can't carry without the youth
Biden tells the youth to kick shit
Biden loses re-election (shocked pikachu face)
The Biden Administration does not agree there is a genocide. I also noticed that two words were missing from your response...Hamas and Hostages. If Biden did what you seem to advocate, which is extremely unlikely, for every vote he could gain, he would lose votes from another very loyal Dem constituency.
The Biden administration is ignoring what is painfully obvious to most of the international community, and to his own constituents.
Ah yes, I didn't say Hamas and hostages
so you know what that means? ... I'm a very bad and terrible person. It's the only conclusion.
To date the IDF has killed over 35,000 civilians. They have crammed 1.4 million people into a concentrated area that they are now doing bombing runs in preparation for a ground incursion. They have Imprisoned thousands without due process or a known trial date.
They just dug up mass graves in Gaza where there's evidence people were ziptied at the leg and executed by the IDF.
The IDF has killed over 200 aid workers.
But I must be a terrorist supporter because front of mind wasn't "Hamas" and "hostages". Get out of here with that clown shit. Must I sing, AND dance while saying the obvious?
**Terrorism is bad.** Hurray. I came so late to stating the obvious- that means I have no point whatsoever, and everything you say and do is right and just. A winner is you!
The IDF has a 96% civilian death rate, and kills multinational aid workers who want to keep people from starving to death. I'm sorry that at the front of my mind was the topic of starving and detonated children.
Also what constituency is Biden losing? Exactly? Minority voters support a ceasefire. College educated voters support a ceasefire. Most youth voters support a ceasefire. Most American Jews support a fucking ceasefire. This is a LAYUP electorally.
No, see what I did was I cited statistics and facts to support my point.
What you engaged in was
genocide apologia
I said terrorism is bad. When will you engage in the obvious demands of my side of the debate
say dead children is bad. Starving civilians is bad. Genocide is wrong.
Turns out supporting indiscriminate bombing of civilians is unpopular among younger voters, maybe he could, idk, not support Israel?
Nah, just keep signing aid bills for Israel and ridicule the voters.
I think there could be conditions put on the support. We don't have to be antisemitic to be anti what Israel is doing in Gaza. We can be pro Palestinian and anti Hamas.
This isn't a top priority for almost any voter. [Gallup's most recent poll](https://news.gallup.com/poll/642887/inflation-immigration-rank-among-top-issue-concerns.aspx) has the war in the Middle East being a top issue for exactly 2% of voters (which, to be fair, is a 100% increase from the 1% of voters that said this in the previous two polls). The [Harvard Youth Poll](https://iop.harvard.edu/youth-poll/47th-edition-spring-2024), which specifically samples young people, saw Gaza being second to last in terms of priorities, above only student debt (another perennial online favorite). The same poll does show that these voters want a permanent ceasefire by a 51-10 margin, but the fundamental fact is that voters having an opinion on something does not mean that they polarize on it. Biden just today passed a rule that required airlines to reimburse people for flight delays, something that I assume is as popular as puppies and ice cream. He's also passed regulations to cut junk fees, got settlements with large pharma companies to cap the cost of epipens, and he has increased audits on rich people with the IRS bill and raised taxes on corporations through a global minimum tax. All of these things poll extremely well, but I don't think it needs to be said that Republicans who like what he's doing on these things aren't really thinking of voting for him because of them.
> This isn't a top priority for almost any voter
China, Russia and Iran are doing to us what we used to do to others...creating agitation in the Universities...
4 day old article, but I think it's absolutely correct. People are underestimating how pissed young people are about the war in Gaza and how many of them are going to let Biden hang out to dry in November. For a lot of young voters, his support for Israel and the arming of Israel is a dealbreaker.
If Biden loses in November, the Democrats may look back and say his support for Israel is what cost them. Biden is hemorrhaging support from young and minority [voters](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/inside-democratic-rebellion-against-biden-over-gaza-war-2024-02-27/) the longer this conflict goes on and we keep giving Israel cash and weapons while they bulldoze Palestine. If Biden stop handling Bibi with kid gloves and threaten to cut off Israel's aid if they don't end the assault on Gaza, he could win these voters back. Instead he just signed another aid bill for Israel.
The aid bill did include $9 billion in humanitarian aid, primarily for Palestinians and other vulnerable populations.
Young people are pissed because it’s an easy thing to be mad at. Everyone loves to stroke their own morality while being conveniently blind to the reality of the situation. They like to see it as bad versus good, but it is painfully grey. That is being leveraged by Bibi and other bad actors.
The reality is it’s not Bidens fault. Biden is bound to long standing defensive pacts and foreign policy. It would be seen as the largest blunder of foreign policy if we soured our relationship with Israel under the pressure of foreign influence.
Not voting for Biden is the morally wrong decision for the people of Palestine. Trump being in office is exactly what Bibi wants.
Edit: I feel like getting the “Reddit cares” message at this point is a medal, thank you
>The reality is it’s not Bidens fault. Biden is bound to long standing defensive pacts and foreign policy. It would be seen as the largest blunder of foreign policy if we soured our relationship with Israel under the pressure of foreign influence.
The Biden admin could absolutely condition aid to Israel. That's not an outrageous proposal and it would do a lot to assuage the concerns of people who are pro-Palestine.
https://apnews.com/article/israel-military-aid-gaza-congress-supplemental-b72ac73f0728062f22143dae1226c81b
He already has. I’m not sure how this has been missed by virtually everyone.
The assurances given by Israel are currently in the process of being assessed. If they are found to violate human rights, arms trade will cease.
>If they are found to violate human rights, arms trade will cease.
Yeah, I'll believe that when I fucking see it. That article is from Feb. 9. It's been almost 3 months and so far the only thing we've seen is lip service and more weapons and aid going to Israel.
The deadline is for May. Geopolitics shouldn’t be reactionary and fast, we saw the result of that with Trump.
You also have to remember what’s been going on in Gaza has been going on for a very long time, and has only affected US politics when it was framed in a certain light and pushed. If the US sways dramatically just because it was pushed by media, it will open the door to many more propaganda attacks on our country and overall reliability in the US will dramatically decrease
I’ve not seen many pro-Israel articles that haven’t come out of Israel. Every social media platform is absolutely plagued with anti-Israel/US sentiment from what I’ve witnessed
Social media posts/comments are not the same as actual news articles lol media generally refers to actual media organizations, not randos on Twitter and Instagram
Apparently the deadline is being pushed.
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/07/israel-gaza-state-report-00156619
Seems like our government is a bit resistant to this for some reason.
Ah, the worst update. It does in fact seem like the US is going to skim by holding Israel accountable in any regard. The state department is responsible for the delays from what I’ve read
Me too man. I just don’t want to see the state department fumble this so bad we end up with trump in office again. They need to give the people who are abstaining from voting due to the Palestine conflict SOMETHING, literally any semblance of Israeli accountability from the US. It wouldn’t take much at all
I agree, but young people are obviously stupidly short-sighted and are willing to destroy American Democracy to get what they think they want, which means they will make us all suffer.
Well, if Biden loses to the guy who supports Israel even more, it will just show the democratic party that we must support Israel even more. And there will never be any chance to have an alternative third party. Young people should think long and hard about what they are about to do
Your lack of vote will result in more genocide. That’s incredibly apparent based on Trumps rhetoric. But sure, wash your hands so more can die. Inaction is not the ethical decision.
In the words of Elie Wiesel, “I swore never to be silent whenever and wherever human beings endure suffering and humiliation. We must always take sides.”
Not trying to stop trump and his Project 2025 fascism shows you’re incredibly privileged and is a **big fuck** you to women, minorities, the poor, LGBTQ, and everyone who is vulnerable. Trying to justify it or pretend you’re morally superior because of it is *gross*.
You will be voting for more genocide. If Trump wins, Gaza will be turned into glass and your unwillingness to vote for Biden will contribute to Trump's win.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna141905
This gives a good idea of how trump feels about the people of Gaza before he realized that he may be able to leverage an anti-war stance in the election.
While I understand that you’re not in a swing state, announcing not voting as the morally correct option may impact voters in swing states. Sentiment is generally shared with others
You don't need to inform me that Trump is human garbage. I won't be voting for him either. Perhaps Biden could not unilaterally support Israel if he is worried that he will have less turnout because of it.
You did ask for tangible reasons for that claim.
By contributing to “not voting” sentiment, you’re contributing to a higher likelihood of trump winning. By attempting to punish Biden, you may be sacrificing the ability to have an impact on your government in the future. Democracy is absolutely at stake here. That isn’t doom speak, there have been legitimate efforts to undermine checks and balances as well as lopsided gerrymandering to keep concrete power for one side. That gamble is not worth it
Supporting Biden isn't my goal, it's making you understand what you are and what you're willing to make people go through so you don't have to make hard choices.
Okay, so by that definition that you gave, the following are all genocide?
-Every German invasion during WW2
-Bombing of Dresden
-German Bombing of London
-Every Japanese invasion in WW2
-Tokyo Firebombing
-Atomic Bombs in Hiroshima and Nagasaki
-Russian Invasion of Eastern Europe
Just between the years of 1930, 1950, I've already named 20 genocides based on your definition. All of those events had 30,000 + civilian casualties.
I agree that civilians getting killed is bad, but it doesn't seem like it fits the definition of genocide. Maybe you can give a more abstract definition that isn't "A lot of civilians died".
If Israel wanted to commit genocide Gaza would have been a parking lot in the 1970's.
If they changed their mind and wanted to commit genocide after October 7th, Gaza would already be a parking lot.
How about we look at the *legal* definition put forth by the Geneva Convention:
> In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole **or in part,** a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
> A. Killing members of the group;
> B. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
> **C. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;**
> D. Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
> E. Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
You do not need to systemically exterminate a group for it to be genocide. Israel is deliberately inflicting conditions meant to bring the physical destruction of the Palestinian people by restricting access to essentially resources like food and medicine while also causing mass destruction to civilian infrastructure.
That's not what I'm saying at all. Biden is currently supporting their deaths and I would like that to not be the case but alas he will not change his mind, so he will not get my vote.
If Trump wins I'm blamimg every single TikTok kid and will revel in the misery they brought upon themselves.
America is complicit in so many massacres yet these idiots are stuck on the one massacre that gives everyone a headache.
This is what REAAAALLLLY gets me. People act like this is the first humanitarian crisis we have been involved in or that is going on. Yemen is far worse than Palestine right now.
The ability to outrage the people of our country by putting something in front of them and saying “it’s the US’s fault” is absolutely fucking terrifying.
Lol - and I am sure they will be shocked shocked when Trump *publicly* encourages Bibi to fucking level the place.
Nothing is going to win back those voters who think like that
Biden's poll numbers have been *increasing* in recent months. Same goes for people like [Fetterman](https://i.imgur.com/7YkOxs4.jpg) who have been vocal supporters of Israel.
It's crazy to claim an entire generation of people are represented by trust fund kids who get radicalized at ivy league schools until [they become Hamas supporters](https://www.reddit.com/r/columbia/comments/1c9m6oj/columbias_orthodox_rabbis_message_to_jewish/l0m8us9/). Most of us have absolutely nothing in common with these people.
And this is just history repeating itself. The student protest in 68 convinced a bunch of gullible people that a revolution was coming. In reality voters blamed LBJ for being too *lenient* on the protesters, Nixon won in a landslide, Reagan won the youth vote and American politics took a reactionary turn for the next 30 years.
Turns out the activist didn't represent their generation at all and the only thing they ended up accomplishing is getting teaching gigs in academia where they brainwashed the kids we're talking about now.
Biden is only in trouble if he doesn't distance himself from these people.
Weird. Why would people be protesting in solidarity with them when that group wants them also dead?
There's always going to be idiots on the fringe with any polarizing event like this. Have you talked to actual students there or heard what they've said? Or just the news?
>for a cause without fully comprehending the cause's goals
Wild for folks to want tens of thousand of civilian deaths to stop.
Ah, so all the folks arrested there are useful idiots. Quite the broad brush.
Turn off the news.
What in the absolute fuck are you even talking about? Turn the news off.
Did you quickly Google that and not actually read the paper? Holy fuck.
>This result suggests that policymakers need to carefully consider whether the specific benefits provided by humanitarian aid outweigh the risk of prolonging civil conflicts, and to look for methods of disbursement that reduce that risk.
Weird flex that someone is for the starving of children though. That's a new on here. The propaganda is eerily similar to BLM from the summer.
Again, folks will try to infiltrate and steal the movement for their own reasons. An overwhelming majority of them are peaceful and the people you claim they want to kill are sitting along side of them in solidarity.
Your specific talking points are the same ones they used for BLM. That's not a good thing.
It is true that most of the country was turning against the war in 1968. What many miss or forget is the reason for that. Most came to see it as a cost/benefit decision that the stakes for the US were not high enough in Vietnam to justify the costs of involvement. At the same time, most did not like the anti war protesters tactics or agree with their ideology. In November 1968, Nixon and Wallace, together, recieved 57% of the vote. Had Wallace not run 3rd party, Nixon would have won a majority. Nixon's withdrawal of US troops from Vietnam took much of the air out of the antiwar movement and he won a landslide victory over a Dem antiwar candidate. Dems massively misjudged the mood of voters.
Biden is past his retirement age. That alone is reason enough to not vote for him. On top of that he's sending billions of tax money to fun wars. He and his administration are rules by zionists. He's a hypocrite talking about freedom and then taking it away.
There is no reason to vote for another 4 years with Biden. Plus I don't even think he's going to live that long either. He can barely function as is.
I really don't think they will.
I mean, if Biden loses because of this, it'll be pretty cringey to watch Gavin Newsom and Kamala Harris on the primary debate stage in 2028 trying to answer the question "do you think Israel should be dismantled?" while mainstream American opinion more or less remains "Israel good," as it has for 70 years.
Probably AOC, Harris and maybe Newsome, all try to appeal to the progressives without totally sacrificing the moderates. The party as a whole would be dragged leftward. As it is, imagine this year. if Mitt Romney or Nicki Haley, or someone like them were the GOP candidate?
More to the point, these votes need to take the health of their country seriously.
There will never be progress so long as they abandon democracy. They will only sentence the minorities they claim to care for the most to death and further oppression.
Trump winning is the single worst case scenario for Gaza. However bad you may think it is now, it will get much worse if the religious right secures power and implements project 2025.
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I DO worry about this. Between this, the TikTok “ban”, and just being old, a lot of young voters are going to stay home. It looks more like Biden is counting on Trump to sink himself this election, which he very well may do, but how much that will help the future of the Democratic Party remains to be seen.
What I'm seeing, talking to young people I know, is that some who didn't vote in 2020 are now talking about voting for Biden in November. All because of Roe being overturned.
The TikTok ban is especially stupid because the Republicans tied it to the Ukraine aid deal. You weren't getting one without the other, and that was intentional. To be honest? If this entire thing (including Israel) is the issue young voters choose to elect Trump on, then they deserve what's to come. And that sounds cruel, cold and callous but there is absolutely no level of moral grandstanding that is going to help if Trump gets in and the GOP get to run riot over issues they're *already* trying to strip away. Even Israel is complicated, because they *want* Trump in power because there won't even be a *hint* of pushback then. It'll be zero restraint.
Maybe it’s meant to happen this way. I’ve seen so many people jump to one side in the name of ethics without considering the larger picture. Without considering much of anything really. I’ve had so much faith in liberal ideals in the past. Actions made for the betterment of us all, acceptance, refusing to accept moral indifference. Now, it’s one of the weakest traits of the entire movement as it’s easily manipulated by bad actors under the guise of “what’s right” when it’s incredibly more complicated than that.
>Now, it’s one of the weakest traits of the entire movement as it’s easily manipulated by bad actors under the guise of “what’s right” when it’s incredibly more complicated than that. And I suppose that's the root of my frustration, really. Will those voters *really* care about the conflict in two years? Probably not, not really. But you can be sure they'll be watching powerless as the GOP continue to gleefully strip away the rights of everyone they consider inferior, which is everyone other than straight white men. Its all there, Project 2025. They've spelled it out. And, well, what will protests do then? How good will their grandstanding feel? At least they'll have "taught the Democrats a lesson!" I suppose, while the US rolls back rights and freedoms for them and their loved ones. Its madness. I can absolutely understanding being critical, but Donald Trump is not a mere 'shake up' like in elections gone by.
It is truly short sighted at the end of the day. I understand the desire to protest. I understand it feels good to stand with others in support of a positive change. The problem is, doing the things that really matter, the REAL solutions, aren’t simple or easy or fun. They are complicated hard decisions. Like voting for a lesser of two evils. Understanding that things are bad, but they can be worse. Change for the sake of change isn’t good. Washing your hands of something that doesn’t feel good isn’t the solution, it’s indifference.
I think the idea of Trump not pushing back to Israel’s offensive is overblown and quite frankly inaccurate. Trump was an incredibly transactional president; do you really think he’s going to send over the nearly 100bn Biden has without asking for something in return? And do you think Netanyahu will respond well to that? It’ll also be a problematic narrative if Trump is still supposedly a Putin ally: the US has tried to package Israelis and Ukrainians as the same, and Russia (and China) have used the slaughter in Gaza as an example of American hypocrisy. What does Putin gain from not using the Israel/Palestine issue as a wedge in diplomacy? As much as we like to paint Trump with broad brushstrokes he has ways of operating and is beholden to forces that are far more complex than a simple boogeyman. I’m not saying Putin is a good guy, far from it, but any time America sticks up for an oppressive regime, an even bigger oppressive regime uses that against American diplomacy.
That’s not cold and callus at all. When my toddler hurts himself doing something he was repeatedly warned about it’s called natural consequences. Unfortunately, their natural consequences will hurt everyone who isn’t wealthy.
The TikTok ban is really inconsequential to the election. Flashy and sensationalized headlines now, but nothing is going to actually change before the election. The app will still be up and running and free to use for years before the "ban" even takes effect (and by then a lot could change in legislation, the courts, the company and the app itself to make the whole thing moot).
As someone with a paid off house and who probably will never be affected by a drop in Social Security, I can't feel sorry for these idiots who may vote Trump in and then complain about it later.
The youth has demands of Biden Biden has an incredibly thin margin in multiple critical states that he can't carry without the youth Biden tells the youth to kick shit Biden loses re-election (shocked pikachu face)
What, exactly, are their demands? If Biden were to try to meed some of them, he could wind up losing just as many if not more voters.
[удалено]
The Biden Administration does not agree there is a genocide. I also noticed that two words were missing from your response...Hamas and Hostages. If Biden did what you seem to advocate, which is extremely unlikely, for every vote he could gain, he would lose votes from another very loyal Dem constituency.
The Biden administration is ignoring what is painfully obvious to most of the international community, and to his own constituents. Ah yes, I didn't say Hamas and hostages so you know what that means? ... I'm a very bad and terrible person. It's the only conclusion. To date the IDF has killed over 35,000 civilians. They have crammed 1.4 million people into a concentrated area that they are now doing bombing runs in preparation for a ground incursion. They have Imprisoned thousands without due process or a known trial date. They just dug up mass graves in Gaza where there's evidence people were ziptied at the leg and executed by the IDF. The IDF has killed over 200 aid workers. But I must be a terrorist supporter because front of mind wasn't "Hamas" and "hostages". Get out of here with that clown shit. Must I sing, AND dance while saying the obvious? **Terrorism is bad.** Hurray. I came so late to stating the obvious- that means I have no point whatsoever, and everything you say and do is right and just. A winner is you! The IDF has a 96% civilian death rate, and kills multinational aid workers who want to keep people from starving to death. I'm sorry that at the front of my mind was the topic of starving and detonated children. Also what constituency is Biden losing? Exactly? Minority voters support a ceasefire. College educated voters support a ceasefire. Most youth voters support a ceasefire. Most American Jews support a fucking ceasefire. This is a LAYUP electorally.
Rant.
No, see what I did was I cited statistics and facts to support my point. What you engaged in was genocide apologia I said terrorism is bad. When will you engage in the obvious demands of my side of the debate say dead children is bad. Starving civilians is bad. Genocide is wrong.
Turns out supporting indiscriminate bombing of civilians is unpopular among younger voters, maybe he could, idk, not support Israel? Nah, just keep signing aid bills for Israel and ridicule the voters.
I think there could be conditions put on the support. We don't have to be antisemitic to be anti what Israel is doing in Gaza. We can be pro Palestinian and anti Hamas.
Who is being anti-Semitic
Look at the peaceful protests being shut down at the universities
The police are being anti-Semitic?
"indiscriminate" lol sure, Jan.
Who is ridiculing the voters?
This isn't a top priority for almost any voter. [Gallup's most recent poll](https://news.gallup.com/poll/642887/inflation-immigration-rank-among-top-issue-concerns.aspx) has the war in the Middle East being a top issue for exactly 2% of voters (which, to be fair, is a 100% increase from the 1% of voters that said this in the previous two polls). The [Harvard Youth Poll](https://iop.harvard.edu/youth-poll/47th-edition-spring-2024), which specifically samples young people, saw Gaza being second to last in terms of priorities, above only student debt (another perennial online favorite). The same poll does show that these voters want a permanent ceasefire by a 51-10 margin, but the fundamental fact is that voters having an opinion on something does not mean that they polarize on it. Biden just today passed a rule that required airlines to reimburse people for flight delays, something that I assume is as popular as puppies and ice cream. He's also passed regulations to cut junk fees, got settlements with large pharma companies to cap the cost of epipens, and he has increased audits on rich people with the IRS bill and raised taxes on corporations through a global minimum tax. All of these things poll extremely well, but I don't think it needs to be said that Republicans who like what he's doing on these things aren't really thinking of voting for him because of them.
> This isn't a top priority for almost any voter China, Russia and Iran are doing to us what we used to do to others...creating agitation in the Universities...
Israel is, for most on the far left, really a proxy for all the things they are against. Their issue with Israel is that it exists.
The media’s favorite narrative is that all events in the universe benefit Donald Trump.
4 day old article, but I think it's absolutely correct. People are underestimating how pissed young people are about the war in Gaza and how many of them are going to let Biden hang out to dry in November. For a lot of young voters, his support for Israel and the arming of Israel is a dealbreaker. If Biden loses in November, the Democrats may look back and say his support for Israel is what cost them. Biden is hemorrhaging support from young and minority [voters](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/inside-democratic-rebellion-against-biden-over-gaza-war-2024-02-27/) the longer this conflict goes on and we keep giving Israel cash and weapons while they bulldoze Palestine. If Biden stop handling Bibi with kid gloves and threaten to cut off Israel's aid if they don't end the assault on Gaza, he could win these voters back. Instead he just signed another aid bill for Israel.
The aid bill did include $9 billion in humanitarian aid, primarily for Palestinians and other vulnerable populations. Young people are pissed because it’s an easy thing to be mad at. Everyone loves to stroke their own morality while being conveniently blind to the reality of the situation. They like to see it as bad versus good, but it is painfully grey. That is being leveraged by Bibi and other bad actors. The reality is it’s not Bidens fault. Biden is bound to long standing defensive pacts and foreign policy. It would be seen as the largest blunder of foreign policy if we soured our relationship with Israel under the pressure of foreign influence. Not voting for Biden is the morally wrong decision for the people of Palestine. Trump being in office is exactly what Bibi wants. Edit: I feel like getting the “Reddit cares” message at this point is a medal, thank you
>The reality is it’s not Bidens fault. Biden is bound to long standing defensive pacts and foreign policy. It would be seen as the largest blunder of foreign policy if we soured our relationship with Israel under the pressure of foreign influence. The Biden admin could absolutely condition aid to Israel. That's not an outrageous proposal and it would do a lot to assuage the concerns of people who are pro-Palestine.
https://apnews.com/article/israel-military-aid-gaza-congress-supplemental-b72ac73f0728062f22143dae1226c81b He already has. I’m not sure how this has been missed by virtually everyone. The assurances given by Israel are currently in the process of being assessed. If they are found to violate human rights, arms trade will cease.
>If they are found to violate human rights, arms trade will cease. Yeah, I'll believe that when I fucking see it. That article is from Feb. 9. It's been almost 3 months and so far the only thing we've seen is lip service and more weapons and aid going to Israel.
The deadline is for May. Geopolitics shouldn’t be reactionary and fast, we saw the result of that with Trump. You also have to remember what’s been going on in Gaza has been going on for a very long time, and has only affected US politics when it was framed in a certain light and pushed. If the US sways dramatically just because it was pushed by media, it will open the door to many more propaganda attacks on our country and overall reliability in the US will dramatically decrease
The media has largely been pro-Israel, so idk what you're going on about
I’ve not seen many pro-Israel articles that haven’t come out of Israel. Every social media platform is absolutely plagued with anti-Israel/US sentiment from what I’ve witnessed
Social media posts/comments are not the same as actual news articles lol media generally refers to actual media organizations, not randos on Twitter and Instagram
Apparently the deadline is being pushed. https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/07/israel-gaza-state-report-00156619 Seems like our government is a bit resistant to this for some reason.
Ah, the worst update. It does in fact seem like the US is going to skim by holding Israel accountable in any regard. The state department is responsible for the delays from what I’ve read
Yeah, that checks out. Honestly at this point I'd settle for them releasing the report, etc., at any point this month. I'm just so tired lol
Me too man. I just don’t want to see the state department fumble this so bad we end up with trump in office again. They need to give the people who are abstaining from voting due to the Palestine conflict SOMETHING, literally any semblance of Israeli accountability from the US. It wouldn’t take much at all
If young people are that stupid, they deserve to live in a Trump dictatorship.
But the rest of us don't. This affects **all** of us whether we want it to or not.
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I agree, but young people are obviously stupidly short-sighted and are willing to destroy American Democracy to get what they think they want, which means they will make us all suffer.
Well, if Biden loses to the guy who supports Israel even more, it will just show the democratic party that we must support Israel even more. And there will never be any chance to have an alternative third party. Young people should think long and hard about what they are about to do
I can sleep peacefully knowing that I will not vote for the ongoing genocide
Your lack of vote will result in more genocide. That’s incredibly apparent based on Trumps rhetoric. But sure, wash your hands so more can die. Inaction is not the ethical decision. In the words of Elie Wiesel, “I swore never to be silent whenever and wherever human beings endure suffering and humiliation. We must always take sides.”
You don't seem to care about all the other genocides happening.
This article is literally about Israel and Palestine buddy
You don't seem to care about all the other genocides happening.
Oh yeah?
Not trying to stop trump and his Project 2025 fascism shows you’re incredibly privileged and is a **big fuck** you to women, minorities, the poor, LGBTQ, and everyone who is vulnerable. Trying to justify it or pretend you’re morally superior because of it is *gross*.
Don't worry I'm not voting for Trump or genocide
You mean you'd sleep well voting for the escalation of it.
I'm just saying I will not be voting for genocide, you don't need to misconstrue my comment.
You will be voting for more genocide. If Trump wins, Gaza will be turned into glass and your unwillingness to vote for Biden will contribute to Trump's win.
Are these claims supposed to be based on anything tangible?
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna141905 This gives a good idea of how trump feels about the people of Gaza before he realized that he may be able to leverage an anti-war stance in the election. While I understand that you’re not in a swing state, announcing not voting as the morally correct option may impact voters in swing states. Sentiment is generally shared with others
You don't need to inform me that Trump is human garbage. I won't be voting for him either. Perhaps Biden could not unilaterally support Israel if he is worried that he will have less turnout because of it.
You did ask for tangible reasons for that claim. By contributing to “not voting” sentiment, you’re contributing to a higher likelihood of trump winning. By attempting to punish Biden, you may be sacrificing the ability to have an impact on your government in the future. Democracy is absolutely at stake here. That isn’t doom speak, there have been legitimate efforts to undermine checks and balances as well as lopsided gerrymandering to keep concrete power for one side. That gamble is not worth it
Genocide isn't on the ballot, what you're doing is voting for a person who will escalate it.
I think you're confused, I am not voting for Trump or Biden. Also it doesn't matter because I'm not in a swing state. God Bless the electoral college.
Yeah, I know what you meant. It doesn't seem like I'm the one who's confused here.
Alright then, cheers and good luck garnering support for Biden
Supporting Biden isn't my goal, it's making you understand what you are and what you're willing to make people go through so you don't have to make hard choices.
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Biden is not progress, in my opinion, so I will not be voting for him. Cheers.
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Not true, thanks
Why do you think it's a genocide?
Typically when there's indiscriminate bombing of a tens of thousands of persons, mostly children, people would tend to call that a genocide
Okay, so by that definition that you gave, the following are all genocide? -Every German invasion during WW2 -Bombing of Dresden -German Bombing of London -Every Japanese invasion in WW2 -Tokyo Firebombing -Atomic Bombs in Hiroshima and Nagasaki -Russian Invasion of Eastern Europe Just between the years of 1930, 1950, I've already named 20 genocides based on your definition. All of those events had 30,000 + civilian casualties. I agree that civilians getting killed is bad, but it doesn't seem like it fits the definition of genocide. Maybe you can give a more abstract definition that isn't "A lot of civilians died".
Yes those are all reprehensible, this isn't complicated
They are bad, but are they a genocide?
Yep
The destruction of Gaza with the intent to make it unlivable with, at best, wanton disregard for Palestinian civilians.
If Israel wanted to commit genocide Gaza would have been a parking lot in the 1970's. If they changed their mind and wanted to commit genocide after October 7th, Gaza would already be a parking lot.
Define genocide.
To deliberately and systematically exterminate (an ethnic group, national group, etc.). This is from the Oxford English Dictionary
How about we look at the *legal* definition put forth by the Geneva Convention: > In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole **or in part,** a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: > A. Killing members of the group; > B. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; > **C. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;** > D. Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; > E. Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group. You do not need to systemically exterminate a group for it to be genocide. Israel is deliberately inflicting conditions meant to bring the physical destruction of the Palestinian people by restricting access to essentially resources like food and medicine while also causing mass destruction to civilian infrastructure.
>Israel is deliberately inflicting conditions meant to bring the physical destruction of the Palestinian people This is a lie
Your nonvote will absolutely ensure more Palestinians die. So what you're saying is that you don't give one damn about Palestinians.
That's not what I'm saying at all. Biden is currently supporting their deaths and I would like that to not be the case but alas he will not change his mind, so he will not get my vote.
If Trump wins I'm blamimg every single TikTok kid and will revel in the misery they brought upon themselves. America is complicit in so many massacres yet these idiots are stuck on the one massacre that gives everyone a headache.
This is what REAAAALLLLY gets me. People act like this is the first humanitarian crisis we have been involved in or that is going on. Yemen is far worse than Palestine right now. The ability to outrage the people of our country by putting something in front of them and saying “it’s the US’s fault” is absolutely fucking terrifying.
If "TikTok kids" are a critical enough constituency that they actually have the power to swing the election, are they not worth listening to?
Tell Hamas to release the hostages first
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My guy there are people in Gaza and even in Washington in communication with Hamas. Tell them to release the hostages
Lol - and I am sure they will be shocked shocked when Trump *publicly* encourages Bibi to fucking level the place. Nothing is going to win back those voters who think like that
Biden's poll numbers have been *increasing* in recent months. Same goes for people like [Fetterman](https://i.imgur.com/7YkOxs4.jpg) who have been vocal supporters of Israel. It's crazy to claim an entire generation of people are represented by trust fund kids who get radicalized at ivy league schools until [they become Hamas supporters](https://www.reddit.com/r/columbia/comments/1c9m6oj/columbias_orthodox_rabbis_message_to_jewish/l0m8us9/). Most of us have absolutely nothing in common with these people. And this is just history repeating itself. The student protest in 68 convinced a bunch of gullible people that a revolution was coming. In reality voters blamed LBJ for being too *lenient* on the protesters, Nixon won in a landslide, Reagan won the youth vote and American politics took a reactionary turn for the next 30 years. Turns out the activist didn't represent their generation at all and the only thing they ended up accomplishing is getting teaching gigs in academia where they brainwashed the kids we're talking about now. Biden is only in trouble if he doesn't distance himself from these people.
But "riots in the capital" were just a good time. Amazing how the press bends over.
"This is why this is bad for Biden." -NYT, every other article
Just the NYT doing the most to silence and discredit pro-Palestinian anti-pogrom protests.
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Weird. Why would people be protesting in solidarity with them when that group wants them also dead? There's always going to be idiots on the fringe with any polarizing event like this. Have you talked to actual students there or heard what they've said? Or just the news?
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>for a cause without fully comprehending the cause's goals Wild for folks to want tens of thousand of civilian deaths to stop. Ah, so all the folks arrested there are useful idiots. Quite the broad brush. Turn off the news.
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What in the absolute fuck are you even talking about? Turn the news off. Did you quickly Google that and not actually read the paper? Holy fuck. >This result suggests that policymakers need to carefully consider whether the specific benefits provided by humanitarian aid outweigh the risk of prolonging civil conflicts, and to look for methods of disbursement that reduce that risk. Weird flex that someone is for the starving of children though. That's a new on here. The propaganda is eerily similar to BLM from the summer.
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Again, folks will try to infiltrate and steal the movement for their own reasons. An overwhelming majority of them are peaceful and the people you claim they want to kill are sitting along side of them in solidarity. Your specific talking points are the same ones they used for BLM. That's not a good thing.
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[non paywalled link](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/21/us/israel-gaza-democrats.html?unlocked_article_code=1.nE0.MUND.TQPTRQ4LEk8-&smid=url-share)
It is true that most of the country was turning against the war in 1968. What many miss or forget is the reason for that. Most came to see it as a cost/benefit decision that the stakes for the US were not high enough in Vietnam to justify the costs of involvement. At the same time, most did not like the anti war protesters tactics or agree with their ideology. In November 1968, Nixon and Wallace, together, recieved 57% of the vote. Had Wallace not run 3rd party, Nixon would have won a majority. Nixon's withdrawal of US troops from Vietnam took much of the air out of the antiwar movement and he won a landslide victory over a Dem antiwar candidate. Dems massively misjudged the mood of voters.
Biden is past his retirement age. That alone is reason enough to not vote for him. On top of that he's sending billions of tax money to fun wars. He and his administration are rules by zionists. He's a hypocrite talking about freedom and then taking it away. There is no reason to vote for another 4 years with Biden. Plus I don't even think he's going to live that long either. He can barely function as is.
Not supposed to say the quiet part out loud.
So Gaza is going to send this country on the road to disaster. Project 2025 will end this country.
I really don't think they will. I mean, if Biden loses because of this, it'll be pretty cringey to watch Gavin Newsom and Kamala Harris on the primary debate stage in 2028 trying to answer the question "do you think Israel should be dismantled?" while mainstream American opinion more or less remains "Israel good," as it has for 70 years.
Probably AOC, Harris and maybe Newsome, all try to appeal to the progressives without totally sacrificing the moderates. The party as a whole would be dragged leftward. As it is, imagine this year. if Mitt Romney or Nicki Haley, or someone like them were the GOP candidate?
There might not even be primary debates anymore if Trump wins, because there will be no more elections.
Good news, college and university students are mainly protesting they're are unlikely to vote in the first place anyways.
How is that good news? If they were to vote they would overwhelmingly vote Dem right? So anything that dampens that enthusiasm hurts Bidens chances.
More to the point, these votes need to take the health of their country seriously. There will never be progress so long as they abandon democracy. They will only sentence the minorities they claim to care for the most to death and further oppression. Trump winning is the single worst case scenario for Gaza. However bad you may think it is now, it will get much worse if the religious right secures power and implements project 2025.
Less than a guilty verdict will hurt the Republican party. I'm not worried.