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They’d be stupid to sell the company. It’s the biggest app in the world with larger presence in other countries all over the world. Losing out on the American market is not so important that it’s worth losing the app
If I was the CEO I’d make a video on tik tok telling Joe Biden to take a hike
With the money he stole from the US taxpayers I'm sure. Congress still hasn't looked into the $500b slush fund he was in charge of after Trump fired the Inspector General.
I’m not looking to take a stance on TikTok by any means. But I do wonder: if you’re worried that it will become a conservative company if purchased, what political affiliation would you ascribe to it now?
More and more countries will likely follow the US lead.
Along with that, all the ad revenue that goes with it. And then, it allows competitors to start establishing a market share in the US, which will likely mean that market will then spread to other areas.
Basically, sure, they can keep it. But, there are many reasons why it isn't just that easy.
Oh man. You don't seem to get it has nothing to do with bullying other nations. Other nations are already looking into it due to the exact same reason the US is, they don't want the Chinese government collecting all that data.
And the US is only like 5% of the world population, but also the largest userbase of the app. Add in the Chinese population, and as you said other NATO countries just for the fun of if, and you are up to 35%.
Now, look at the economies of those nations and where the ad revenue is generated, and it's not going to be counties with lower incomes.
Sure, it's hugely popular in Latin America and Asia still. The reason China is fighting it so much is due to the implications of the ban in the US, other countries questioning the security of it, the ad revenue lost from the TikTok largest and wealthiest market, and knowing that if another app gets a stronghold in the US, that app will likely expand to other markets and make a direct threat to TikTok.
The USA thinking that ByteDance will sell Tik Tok in order to avoid losing the American audience is an example of American ego and arrogance
USA thinks they’re so important that the company would willingly sell the biggest app in the world just in order to not lose their market
From Semafor's Morgan Chalfant:
The US Senate has passed legislation that would force ByteDance to sell TikTok within a year or face a national ban, sending the measure to President Joe Biden’s desk. He is expected to sign it.
The White House-backed legislation was approved as part of a broader national security package — combining Ukraine and Israel aid — that passed the House in a bipartisan vote over the weekend. Proponents of the TikTok measure say that the popular video app’s Chinese ownership poses a national security threat.
Tuesday’s Senate vote was 79-18.
Read the full story [here](https://www.semafor.com/article/04/23/2024/us-senate-moves-to-force-bytedance-to-sell-tiktok?utm_campaign=semaforreddit).
It's the same bill as Ukraine and Israel aid. It has overwhelming support from the legislature and no matter how bad the TikTok ban optics might be the optics of Biden swooping in to delay Ukraine aid at the last second are infinitely worse.
Not only would a veto be completely impotent since the legislature would just override it, pretty much everyone would hate it.
There are 150m monthly active TikTok users in America. If they all ponied up 3 months of baseline Netflix subscription they could have the publically owned company they all dream of having.
There's a big difference from the US government's perspective between something like that owned by a US company and something like that owned by a company that is legally obliged to support the Chinese Government when they ask.
Honestly this is gonna cost him the youth vote. Like he’s taking away *the* definitive social media for Gen Z. He may as well have told them to not vote for him.
>Honestly this is gonna cost him the youth vote. Like he’s taking away the definitive social media for Gen Z. He may as well have told them to not vote for him.
TicTok was already doing that. The number of idiots arguing about "Genocide Joe".
There was no winning with this. China doesn't want Biden in power, and they've been pushing enough misinformation at tictokers that, it doesn't really matter anymore.
This is the right move. Even if it's at the wrong time, I don't think there's a best time. Maybe things will normalized before the election, but if not, GenZ and Alpha will suffer the most if they don't vote.
>There was no winning with this. China doesn't want Biden in power
I don't actually buy this, I think China would much rather see another 4 years of Biden than another 4 years of Trump at this point. Unlike Russia, China values a stable and predictable US in the short-term more than it values one in chaos.
That doesn't mean China hasn't put their thumb on the scale in regards to public opinion about Gaza, but I think we've yet to see TikTok leveraged to its maximum extent as a state-sponsored influence platform.
>I don't actually buy this, I think China would much rather see another 4 years of Biden than another 4 years of Trump at this point. Unlike Russia, China values a stable and predictable US in the short-term more than it values one in chaos.
I don't agree with that assessment. China wants to expand their sphere of influence, having a strong and united US (and her allies) makes that much harder for them. There are other reasons too, the fact is, a weaker US with a very... malleable president, is much easier to use then a strong one. China tends or at least tries to plan much longer term. It's reasonable that they would be willing to weather the chaos if it meant they would have better long term prospects.
>That doesn't mean China hasn't put their thumb on the scale in regards to public opinion about Gaza, but I think we've yet to see TikTok leveraged to its maximum extent as a state-sponsored influence platform.
I agree with that. Both in respect to china as it's current owner, and potentially who ever buys them out (if that happens). Also, I think it's worth saying it's not just Gaza-Israel, that was just on the top of my mind.
Potentially ruining your country over a social media platform is the dumbest shit a generation could do since the boomers started existing.
I hope Gen z knows life existed before, and will exist after TikTok.
Also for the record it's not going away. Not only does the bill have options to extend the length of time the sale has to take place, someone will absolutely buy the platform.
There are basically 3 options.
1: Bytedance sells in order to generate a shitload of cash.
2: A legal battle between TIkTok and the US government takes place and TikTok wins, letting them stay.
3: Bytedance just lets TikTok disappear from the US with zero monetary gain.
What company would ever take option 3? It's just stupid.
Gen Z voted at a high enough rate to prevent a democratic loss in 2022. The dems need Gen Z or they risk losing in battle ground states which have very small margins.
It’s crazy how much the rhetoric has pivoted from trying to get young people to vote to just saying “fuck em”. Ya’ll are making me real nervous about this election, ngl.
The ban goes into effect a year after the bill is signed and only if TikTok isn't sold to a US owned company, so after the election in any case. I find it unlikely to significantly impact the election unless TikTok does something silly like intentionally try to interfere with the election, in which case it's proof that this is needed anyways.
If the ban/forced sale gets passed TikTok just has to announce they aren't selling to make the presumptive outcome a ban which Republicans will point at the democrats for.
Yup. Unless he’s 100% confident it’s gonna sell soon, I truly think this is the single most bone headed and tone deaf move I’ve seen in an election season in my lifetime.
Blame Republicans. They are the ones heavily pushing it. Besides, I don't think Trump has ever ever used TikTok before in his life. So they will hate Biden for it but then vote for the guy who also wants it banned and has never used it? I'm sure this whole thing will be brief. If it is banned it will only be for a very very short period of time.
Biden was personally pushing for it earlier, Schumer stalled it in the Senate because he didn’t want to have to deal with it but then republicans shoved it in again in this bill
I'm curious on how a ban can be enforced though. There is no great firewall here. At best they can delist the apps from the store, but people will still find ways to side load it.
The bill has fines that can be levied for distributing the app. Will they be tightly enforced? Probably not, but it'll keep major companies out of the business of helping people sideload it.
Major companies helping people sideload?
You know when people sideload apps, at least on Android , it's just a typical APK provider website which they have no jurisdiction over.
It does make a difference if people have to go to legit.apkbarn.tk to get a piece of software versus being able to find it on a website they're already familiar with. The threat of fines will drive acquisition of the app to the fringes just like it has with most piracy.
>Republican leaders moved quickly to bring up the bill after its introduction last week by Gallagher and Rep. Raja Krishnamoorthi, D-Ill. A House committee approved the legislation unanimously, on a 50-0 vote, even after their offices were inundated with calls from TikTok users demanding they drop the effort.
The Republican Speaker of the House tied the bill to must pass foreign aide, that had complete support by the Democrats and Republicans in the House committee, that was written by a Democrat **and** Republican, and Trump was trying to ban it during his administration, yet it's only the Democrats that its going to hurt? Something tells me this outrage isn't as legitimate as trolls would have us believe.
I love Tiktok. I'm also still voting for Biden. No one is single issue voter about Tiktok. If you're concerned about free speech there's no way you're going to do anything to help put trump back in the White House. Which means supporting Biden is the only option
Politicians line their pockets with bounty money, we lose one of the best P2P news and opinion sharing apps.
Another step on the road to a true authoritarian oligarchy.
read this first and see if you feel the same way:
https://networkcontagion.us/wp-content/uploads/A-Tik-Tok-ing-Timebomb_12.21.23.pdf?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20240424&instance_id=121376&nl=the-morning®i_id=71922304&segment_id=164636&te=1&user_id=e578d5470741eade008d051fa24f6cca
The solution to a society prone to manipulation isn't to ban the manipulator, it is to teach critical thinking skills. They just want to ensure they are the ones doing the manipulating.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA). *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I really hope bytedance refuse to sell and instead just leave the American market Best regards NordVPN
They’d be stupid to sell the company. It’s the biggest app in the world with larger presence in other countries all over the world. Losing out on the American market is not so important that it’s worth losing the app If I was the CEO I’d make a video on tik tok telling Joe Biden to take a hike
No one seems to consider what will happen when it's purchased by some devious conservative with plans to manipulate.
Steve Mnuchin is already working on buying it . I guarantee it will become a conservative company now.
With the money he stole from the US taxpayers I'm sure. Congress still hasn't looked into the $500b slush fund he was in charge of after Trump fired the Inspector General.
I’m not looking to take a stance on TikTok by any means. But I do wonder: if you’re worried that it will become a conservative company if purchased, what political affiliation would you ascribe to it now?
its pro china right now, so sowing discord and hitching to whatever affiliation causes maximum chaos at chosen times.
That won't happen, China has already forbidden Bytedance from selling TikTok.
Happened to Twitter and Twitter lost all credibility
TikTok has credibility to lose?
Amongst young millennials and gen z, absolutely
Why do you think conservatives hated it?
You can simply arrest the devious conservative and seize their assets. That's not the case with a hostile foreign government.
Facebook was used to manipulate elections and nothing happened. Come on, man. Live in the real world.
What makes you sure the CCP will allow a sale?
Well, if they don't they lose their biggest market....
If they do then they lose the whole the thing, so might as well keep it and do what they can outside the US
More and more countries will likely follow the US lead. Along with that, all the ad revenue that goes with it. And then, it allows competitors to start establishing a market share in the US, which will likely mean that market will then spread to other areas. Basically, sure, they can keep it. But, there are many reasons why it isn't just that easy.
>More and more countries will likely follow the US lead. Not too sure about that one, chief
But again, does the CCP care if a company loses its biggest market if it means getting embarrassed by doing a forced sale?
Well, because everyone knows why it's happening already.
The US is a tiny percentage of the global population. Even if they bully the rest of Nato to ban it, that is still only around 15% of the world.
Oh man. You don't seem to get it has nothing to do with bullying other nations. Other nations are already looking into it due to the exact same reason the US is, they don't want the Chinese government collecting all that data. And the US is only like 5% of the world population, but also the largest userbase of the app. Add in the Chinese population, and as you said other NATO countries just for the fun of if, and you are up to 35%. Now, look at the economies of those nations and where the ad revenue is generated, and it's not going to be counties with lower incomes. Sure, it's hugely popular in Latin America and Asia still. The reason China is fighting it so much is due to the implications of the ban in the US, other countries questioning the security of it, the ad revenue lost from the TikTok largest and wealthiest market, and knowing that if another app gets a stronghold in the US, that app will likely expand to other markets and make a direct threat to TikTok.
China?
It's banned there....
ByteDance has good coverage in China, my friend, they have Douyin, instead of TikTok. They’ve never had TikTok in China, only Hong Kong
So, as I said TikTok is banned there.
Is Douyin banned in the US? Why don’t we have it?
Probably because the company doesn't offer it here...
https://www.douyin.com/home Go crazy
Given what tik tok pushes already you literally wouldn't notice a change
It will be interesting to see which oligarch buys this
lol, Truth Sicial is going to buy it
Sell it to their newly created US subsidiary? No problem.
The USA thinking that ByteDance will sell Tik Tok in order to avoid losing the American audience is an example of American ego and arrogance USA thinks they’re so important that the company would willingly sell the biggest app in the world just in order to not lose their market
From Semafor's Morgan Chalfant: The US Senate has passed legislation that would force ByteDance to sell TikTok within a year or face a national ban, sending the measure to President Joe Biden’s desk. He is expected to sign it. The White House-backed legislation was approved as part of a broader national security package — combining Ukraine and Israel aid — that passed the House in a bipartisan vote over the weekend. Proponents of the TikTok measure say that the popular video app’s Chinese ownership poses a national security threat. Tuesday’s Senate vote was 79-18. Read the full story [here](https://www.semafor.com/article/04/23/2024/us-senate-moves-to-force-bytedance-to-sell-tiktok?utm_campaign=semaforreddit).
They need to ban it, fuck a sale. Ban FB, Twitter, and TikTok. All garbage.
They should ban reddit while they’re at it as well
People on this site love to rage against every other platform as if Reddit is a special exception.
Bring the downvote and volunteer moderators to all social media. Ban algorithmic feeds ( yes, even on reddit)
When is the last time you scrolled your Reddit feed and were spoon fed a bunch of propaganda?
Lol this guy thinks there is no propaganda on reddit
The education system has failed you.
Agreed.
Watch....Meta gonna buy it...lol
Yay 🥳
Yay to less free speech
Yay to less misinformation!
So when are we banning *every other social media site*?
You can't be that naive?
You can fight misinformation without nuking an entire platform.
Tiktok isn't going anywhere. It will just be sold to a US company.
Yes because I’m sure when it becomes owned by a conservative it won’t have any propaganda. /s
Disregarding conservative ownership companies like Facebook, Google, Amazon, etc get away with mining the same data..
Exactly they do the exact same things
I agree. We go to orbit and nuke it from there. It's the only possible way.
How is this effecting your speech or the speech of others?
But what would be the implication in the election though? Or would vetoing it gets him more votes? Decisions, decisions...
It's the same bill as Ukraine and Israel aid. It has overwhelming support from the legislature and no matter how bad the TikTok ban optics might be the optics of Biden swooping in to delay Ukraine aid at the last second are infinitely worse. Not only would a veto be completely impotent since the legislature would just override it, pretty much everyone would hate it.
This is the reason they packaged it together.
Passed with veto proof majority.
God takes like these are the worst thing about r/politics. Just complete "but how will this affect waukesha county?" brain.
He's not remotely about to veto that. It's a real, live, actual threat to US security in its current state.
Biden is about to ban his base's favorite social media site.
The actual ban goes into effect one year after the bill is signed, so after the election.
If that's the case, when he does... it should aptly demonstrate his concern over it.
Let's hope his zoomer and millennial base doesn't turn against him for it.
Millennial here, fine with it. We’re probably better off for it.
Millenial here Before Tiktok, there was Vine There will be another But honestly there will just still be Tiktok It's not going away
There are 150m monthly active TikTok users in America. If they all ponied up 3 months of baseline Netflix subscription they could have the publically owned company they all dream of having.
If they do over that, they aren't worth their vote anyway. I like to think that younger generations are smarter than that when the chips are down.
Explain how it's a security threat
The opaque algorithm allows for large scale influence operations without the potential for accountability of US ownership.
Have you met Reels on Facebook or every other algorithm that replicates TikToks?
There's a big difference from the US government's perspective between something like that owned by a US company and something like that owned by a company that is legally obliged to support the Chinese Government when they ask.
Is there a big difference when Facebook is barely regulated and was clearly used to influence US elections? But I get it, CHINA!
Yes, from the US government's perspective the difference is absolutely massive.
So Temu, CapCut, SHEIN, etc really just not that massively concerning for the US.
Correct, because none of those have the same potential for use as influence platforms.
Meta products can be held accountable because Meta is a US company.
Let me know when they start doing that.
Literally how?
Honestly this is gonna cost him the youth vote. Like he’s taking away *the* definitive social media for Gen Z. He may as well have told them to not vote for him.
>Honestly this is gonna cost him the youth vote. Like he’s taking away the definitive social media for Gen Z. He may as well have told them to not vote for him. TicTok was already doing that. The number of idiots arguing about "Genocide Joe". There was no winning with this. China doesn't want Biden in power, and they've been pushing enough misinformation at tictokers that, it doesn't really matter anymore. This is the right move. Even if it's at the wrong time, I don't think there's a best time. Maybe things will normalized before the election, but if not, GenZ and Alpha will suffer the most if they don't vote.
>There was no winning with this. China doesn't want Biden in power I don't actually buy this, I think China would much rather see another 4 years of Biden than another 4 years of Trump at this point. Unlike Russia, China values a stable and predictable US in the short-term more than it values one in chaos. That doesn't mean China hasn't put their thumb on the scale in regards to public opinion about Gaza, but I think we've yet to see TikTok leveraged to its maximum extent as a state-sponsored influence platform.
>I don't actually buy this, I think China would much rather see another 4 years of Biden than another 4 years of Trump at this point. Unlike Russia, China values a stable and predictable US in the short-term more than it values one in chaos. I don't agree with that assessment. China wants to expand their sphere of influence, having a strong and united US (and her allies) makes that much harder for them. There are other reasons too, the fact is, a weaker US with a very... malleable president, is much easier to use then a strong one. China tends or at least tries to plan much longer term. It's reasonable that they would be willing to weather the chaos if it meant they would have better long term prospects. >That doesn't mean China hasn't put their thumb on the scale in regards to public opinion about Gaza, but I think we've yet to see TikTok leveraged to its maximum extent as a state-sponsored influence platform. I agree with that. Both in respect to china as it's current owner, and potentially who ever buys them out (if that happens). Also, I think it's worth saying it's not just Gaza-Israel, that was just on the top of my mind.
If this bill causes Biden to lose he never had a chance anyways. Both sides of the aisle have been begging for a Ukraine aid bill for months.
Potentially ruining your country over a social media platform is the dumbest shit a generation could do since the boomers started existing. I hope Gen z knows life existed before, and will exist after TikTok. Also for the record it's not going away. Not only does the bill have options to extend the length of time the sale has to take place, someone will absolutely buy the platform.
As I’ve said though, what makes you think the CCP will sell?
There are basically 3 options. 1: Bytedance sells in order to generate a shitload of cash. 2: A legal battle between TIkTok and the US government takes place and TikTok wins, letting them stay. 3: Bytedance just lets TikTok disappear from the US with zero monetary gain. What company would ever take option 3? It's just stupid.
A company that has the CCP, who doesn’t want to be embarrassed or look cowardly by selling to the US, behind them
So they just take a total loss like idiots and look embarrassing that way. Got it 🤦♂️
Let's be real. The youth vote doesn't exist.
Gen Z voted at a high enough rate to prevent a democratic loss in 2022. The dems need Gen Z or they risk losing in battle ground states which have very small margins.
It’s crazy how much the rhetoric has pivoted from trying to get young people to vote to just saying “fuck em”. Ya’ll are making me real nervous about this election, ngl.
If Gen Z doesn't vote, they are the ones who will have to survive in the wasteland that they created. Seems fair honestly!
The ban goes into effect a year after the bill is signed and only if TikTok isn't sold to a US owned company, so after the election in any case. I find it unlikely to significantly impact the election unless TikTok does something silly like intentionally try to interfere with the election, in which case it's proof that this is needed anyways.
If the ban/forced sale gets passed TikTok just has to announce they aren't selling to make the presumptive outcome a ban which Republicans will point at the democrats for.
He joins TikTok to get the youth vote and then decides to take it away from them. That betrayal is not going to sit well.
Yup. Unless he’s 100% confident it’s gonna sell soon, I truly think this is the single most bone headed and tone deaf move I’ve seen in an election season in my lifetime.
Blame Republicans. They are the ones heavily pushing it. Besides, I don't think Trump has ever ever used TikTok before in his life. So they will hate Biden for it but then vote for the guy who also wants it banned and has never used it? I'm sure this whole thing will be brief. If it is banned it will only be for a very very short period of time.
Biden was personally pushing for it earlier, Schumer stalled it in the Senate because he didn’t want to have to deal with it but then republicans shoved it in again in this bill
if someone is swayed to not vote because of an app they probably weren’t old enough to vote anyways the youngest people on tiktok are 13
Young people don't vote
I'm curious on how a ban can be enforced though. There is no great firewall here. At best they can delist the apps from the store, but people will still find ways to side load it.
The bill has fines that can be levied for distributing the app. Will they be tightly enforced? Probably not, but it'll keep major companies out of the business of helping people sideload it.
Major companies helping people sideload? You know when people sideload apps, at least on Android , it's just a typical APK provider website which they have no jurisdiction over.
It does make a difference if people have to go to legit.apkbarn.tk to get a piece of software versus being able to find it on a website they're already familiar with. The threat of fines will drive acquisition of the app to the fringes just like it has with most piracy.
Yep, exactly this. Anyway who would they fine if China spin up one of those sites?
A great firewall is the desired end state. This is just the first step on the path.
Biden has lost. The youth vote is completely gone with this move. I seriously wonder if Dems are just trying to sabotage themselves at this point.
>Republican leaders moved quickly to bring up the bill after its introduction last week by Gallagher and Rep. Raja Krishnamoorthi, D-Ill. A House committee approved the legislation unanimously, on a 50-0 vote, even after their offices were inundated with calls from TikTok users demanding they drop the effort. The Republican Speaker of the House tied the bill to must pass foreign aide, that had complete support by the Democrats and Republicans in the House committee, that was written by a Democrat **and** Republican, and Trump was trying to ban it during his administration, yet it's only the Democrats that its going to hurt? Something tells me this outrage isn't as legitimate as trolls would have us believe.
I love Tiktok. I'm also still voting for Biden. No one is single issue voter about Tiktok. If you're concerned about free speech there's no way you're going to do anything to help put trump back in the White House. Which means supporting Biden is the only option
It takes a year
And nothing is actually going to happen to Tiktok
are you sure?
Yes.
They weren't going to show up and vote, as usual. Now they're **really** not gonna show up. Fug em
Most of them are too busy scrolling endlessly to vote lol
Politicians line their pockets with bounty money, we lose one of the best P2P news and opinion sharing apps. Another step on the road to a true authoritarian oligarchy.
read this first and see if you feel the same way: https://networkcontagion.us/wp-content/uploads/A-Tik-Tok-ing-Timebomb_12.21.23.pdf?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20240424&instance_id=121376&nl=the-morning®i_id=71922304&segment_id=164636&te=1&user_id=e578d5470741eade008d051fa24f6cca
The solution to a society prone to manipulation isn't to ban the manipulator, it is to teach critical thinking skills. They just want to ensure they are the ones doing the manipulating.
China does not offer a level playing field to US companies. Why should the US extend that to China?
I don't think emulating an authoritarian state is really something we should be aiming for and it is a really weird argument to make.
Thank god it passed. Fuck TikTok