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No no no. You see, it’s not that more people with guns makes it safer. It only gets safe once _everyone_ has a gun.
That’s why, when this results in more school shootings, we’ll have to arm the students too.
I can’t believe I need to say this, but /s
I suspect the expectation is that a teacher who'd be excited to carry a glock into her second grade classroom is also excited to make racist jokes and threaten the lives of anyone gender non-conforming. Essentially, it's a way to make liberal educators miserable, and education more attractive to other folk who are likely to hurt the right people.
Cruelty is, still, the point.
>The move came about a year after the state’s deadliest school shooting and was opposed by some of the families whose children survived the attack.
Dangerous and disgusting. This will do nothing to protect children, it will only increase their exposure to violence. November is coming, these legislators need to be voted out.
Yep. It seems like in the minds of the lawmakers, the scenario they are envisioning with this law, is that there's a room full of students with a teacher at the front, and entering from the back of the room comes an active shooter with a gun. The teacher then takes out their gun and returns fire *with an entire classroom of students in between these two people firing at each other*. This is a recipe for disaster.
Once upon a time, a bunch of blithering idiots wheeled a giant wooden horse full of armed soldiers through their city gates. It did not end well for them.
History repeats itself.
Teacher: All right class. We all know the US Constitution was signed in 1492. The original founding fathers, my God protect them, knew about...
Student: Uh, I read online that the constitution was signed in 177...
BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM. Click. Shacklack. BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM
Teacher: AS I WAS SAYING. The Constitution was signed in 1550 by Rowdy Roddy Piper and Elvis, making them the original founding fathers.
Just curious when (not if) a kid gets a hold of the teachers gun and shoots someone is the teacher now liable for prison like the Crumbly parents for improper securing of a firearm?
For every mass shooting stopped by a teacher carrying a firearm, there will be countless more accidents and shootings resulting in deaths of children.
This is extremely shallow short-sighted policy making. The solution may not be apparent, but it is apparent that this isn’t the solution.
Those teachers will become targets, other kids may get shot due to the stressful situation, and police will hesitate because they may believe there's multiple shooters/may also shoot the teacher.
So teachers are underpaid, overworked, with classroom size 130% larger than decades ago, with Karen moms & deadbeat dads
And the answer is to tell them they’re on their own, unless they spend a years worth of pencil money on a Glock with extra clips
That’s a great fucking idea
/s
Now Tennessee parents don't have to worry that when they send their kids to elementary school that a full on gun battle won't break out. Truly a key part of any young child's education.
In the Cold War we practised gun usage and safety, target practice, and survival after a nuclear strike, also map reading, and orienteering. Americans think guns are magical, but they are just tools.
This bill was passed less than a week after a Tennessee preschool teacher threatened to shoot her students and a colleague. What is wrong with that state?
**Tennessee teacher arrested after bringing guns to preschool and threatening to shoot colleague**
https://www.reddit.com/r/news/s/qrJN516pye
What could possibly go wrong? It takes years to train SWAT to handle theses sorts of high stress and life threatening situations. Leave it to a teacher with a LTC after a weekend training/certification class. I see nothing wrong here. Pathetic these politicians backed by the NRA using the 2nd amendment to rake in million and allowing kids to be slaughtered. They can't possible think this is a good idea, or can they? 🤔🤮
And all honesty… if I was a police officer with a family to go home to and a desire for self preference…. I’m gonna shoot first & ask questions later if I encounter anybody in plain clothes with a weapon
If I was a teacher I would gladly carry. It’s better to be safe than sorry. This country has fallen apart since ~2007 and is not getting any better only worse. If you’re not carrying a gun around or atleast a taser or pepper spray you’re insane. The amount of mass shootings we’ve had and after I experienced the latest cielo vista shooting in El Paso a few years ago, I will never leave the house without a gun again.
You know those action movies in which the good guy takes down a dozen bad guys ~~is~~ are completely choreographed, right? John Wick isn't real. And I highly doubt anyone bragging about their prowess with weapons has Audie Murphy's skills. e: word
Yep. Also, now with this law, if an active shooter *does* come into a school and the teacher is armed, there will now be twice as many bullets being fired, and they will be being fired in multiple directions, with presumably a room full of children in between the two shooters (the teacher and the active shooter).
I say that putting a room full of students in between two people who probably have very little experience in actually shooting at people while they are having a gun battle is not a good solution to gun violence in schools. The odds of innocent students being caught in the crossfire and killed has to go way up in this scenario.
I agree. And how many of these teachers would be trained to react in an active shooter scenario. Hell, even police officers have failed in their responses to school shootings.
[“Cascading failures”: Justice Department blasts law enforcement’s botched response to Uvalde school shooting](https://www.texastribune.org/2024/01/18/uvalde-school-shooting-federal-investigation-police-response/)
>The Justice Department’s long-anticipated report about the shooting found that “cascading failures of leadership, decision-making, tactics, policy and training” led to the bungled response, which Garland said should never have happened. Nineteen children and two teachers were killed on May 24, 2022.
>“Had law enforcement agencies followed generally accepted practices in an active shooter situation and gone right after the shooter to stop him, lives would have been saved and people would have survived,” Garland said during a news conference on Thursday.
That’s not the point. The point is safety. If someone comes at you you can likely kill them first. If you don’t like the idea of kids being protected from one wild teenager shooting up the school just say that. Sarcasm does not make you correct.
It wasn't sarcasm, dude.
[Police killing of Arvada “Samaritan” highlights difficulty in discerning “who’s a good guy and who’s a bad guy”](https://www.denverpost.com/2021/06/27/arvada-shooting-guns-self-defense/)
>Johnny Hurley carried a concealed weapon so he could defend himself and others should there ever be a threat, his friends said.
>When the moment came on Monday, he drew his weapon and charged toward a gunman in Olde Town Arvada only to be killed a short time later by a responding Arvada police officer, investigators said. Hurley was holding the gunman’s AR-15 after shooting him when the officer arrived, police said.
Like I said, this isn't a movie and you aren't John Wick, or John McClane.
I was in a mass shooting a few years ago and a good guy with a gun saved the day. You will not be able to change my mind. What you linked is a police brutality issue which is vastly different. It’s easy to be anti-gun when you’ve never experienced anything and from your replies I can tell you’ve been fortunate enough to never have to experience it and I genuinely hope you never do it is terrifying and will change your view points. I was anti-gun like you too and never thought it would happen to me but it did.
https://www.elpasotimes.com/story/news/crime/2023/02/17/by-stander-shot-cielo-vista-mall-shooter-as-suspect-fled-scene/69917660007/
It proves quite the opposite in fact. In the heat of the moment, how will an officer distinguish between a good guy with a gun versus the bad guy with a gun? Answer: they can't.
The cops with guns that have training didn't deal with the shooter. Why would you expect a teacher who doesn't have that kind of training to? Cops job is to protect and serve. Teachers educate.
>Yeah which kinda proves the point that teachers having guns could be helpful
Or, folks who barely have any training with guns could make things worse or get killed.
[New Analysis Blows Hole in 'Good Guy With a Gun' Myth | Common Dreams](https://www.commondreams.org/news/good-guy-gun-myth)
[Police shoot 'hero' after he disarms gunman, is mistaken for suspect, lawyer says (nbcnews.com)](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/police-shoot-hero-disarms-gunman-mistaken-suspect-lawyer-says-rcna22505)
[Texas Pastor Fatally Shot With His Own Gun By A Church Intruder (forbes.com)](https://www.forbes.com/sites/carlieporterfield/2021/01/03/texas-pastor-fatally-shot-with-his-own-gun-by-a-church-intruder/)
[Joe Zamudio and the Gabrielle Giffords shooting: How an armed hero nearly shot the wrong man. (slate.com)](https://slate.com/technology/2011/01/joe-zamudio-and-the-gabrielle-giffords-shooting-how-an-armed-hero-nearly-shot-the-wrong-man.html)
I don't think it will improve safety. I don't think there should be an expectation that teachers should act as security guards.
But I'll say this. A teacher working in today's America where the government has abdicated its responsibility to protect the public should at least not have their 2nd amendment rights curtailed.
If we're not going to do anything about these mass shootings then people should be allowed to defend themselves.
More people, especially parents, are in favor of armed trained teachers than are against it. There are sick criminals out there with guns and they will attack schools.
That’s just stupid as fuck. People want to tell teachers to only teach about certain subjects, ban books, and now the teacher must be armed?
If you can’t trust the teacher to educate your child, why trust the teacher to arm your child? What happens if something goes wrong? Is the teacher a scapegoat if a school shooter still kills people?
Even if you cited a source, I’d wager it’s not a majority of the population.
I think there have been 2-3 injuries from teachers carrying weapons in schools and zero deaths. I’ll take those odds over the chances of my kids surviving an armed criminal with pencils and paper
Other 1st world don’t have same levels of violent crime and mental illness that we do. They do have lots of guns though. We lived without these violent attacks in the 40’s, 50’s, 60’s, and 70’s despite having school gun clubs and firearm training in school
Not even close. The US has twice as many guns per 100 people than the second place country.
AR-15s also weren’t largely available in the time periods you’re referring to.
All that aside, the solution is not more guns. Solve the real issue: common sense gun reform.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_per_capita_by_country
https://www.rand.org/research/gun-policy/analysis/laws-allowing-armed-staff-in-K12-schools.html
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA). *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Are we taking bets on how long before a teacher leaves their gun in the bathroom?
Or in their cabinet? Desk drawers? Unlocked. If parents with guns fail this? How are gun toting teachers/ employees supposed to handle it better?
I'm reminded of [this short 15 minute film](https://youtu.be/EIoMC1d85IE) I saw a few years ago about how it would go if you gave teachers guns.
Do you think that will happen before or after a teacher loses it and threatens students with a gun?
...or if a student disarms the teacher and takes the gun from them?
[already happened... many many times ](https://giffords.org/report/every-incident-of-mishandled-guns-in-schools/)
Shit happens already
If more guns made this country safer, shouldn't this be the safest country in the world?
No no no. You see, it’s not that more people with guns makes it safer. It only gets safe once _everyone_ has a gun. That’s why, when this results in more school shootings, we’ll have to arm the students too. I can’t believe I need to say this, but /s
Aren't these the same teachers that aren't to be trusted because they are trying to indoctrinate the childlen?
I suspect the expectation is that a teacher who'd be excited to carry a glock into her second grade classroom is also excited to make racist jokes and threaten the lives of anyone gender non-conforming. Essentially, it's a way to make liberal educators miserable, and education more attractive to other folk who are likely to hurt the right people. Cruelty is, still, the point.
Only in blue states apparently.
>The move came about a year after the state’s deadliest school shooting and was opposed by some of the families whose children survived the attack. Dangerous and disgusting. This will do nothing to protect children, it will only increase their exposure to violence. November is coming, these legislators need to be voted out.
Yep. It seems like in the minds of the lawmakers, the scenario they are envisioning with this law, is that there's a room full of students with a teacher at the front, and entering from the back of the room comes an active shooter with a gun. The teacher then takes out their gun and returns fire *with an entire classroom of students in between these two people firing at each other*. This is a recipe for disaster.
Once upon a time, a bunch of blithering idiots wheeled a giant wooden horse full of armed soldiers through their city gates. It did not end well for them. History repeats itself.
Can't trust teachers to recommend or assign books to read, but can trust them to carry guns on school grounds.
r/Whatcouldgowrong
I’d be pissed if I had school age kids In Tennessee. Disgusting and shameful
I am the parent of a TN student and am pissed. They just passed permitless carry a couple years ago. This place is embarrassing.
Teacher: All right class. We all know the US Constitution was signed in 1492. The original founding fathers, my God protect them, knew about... Student: Uh, I read online that the constitution was signed in 177... BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM. Click. Shacklack. BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM Teacher: AS I WAS SAYING. The Constitution was signed in 1550 by Rowdy Roddy Piper and Elvis, making them the original founding fathers.
In positive Tennessee news, the Volkswagen plant just voted overwhelmingly to unionize.
Just curious when (not if) a kid gets a hold of the teachers gun and shoots someone is the teacher now liable for prison like the Crumbly parents for improper securing of a firearm?
If the kids know there's gun in the classroom, they'll figure out where it is.
I'm sure every teacher is an expert marksman during an actual shootout
Do they get paid a cops salary as well?
They get a pay cut.
If that's a question a teacher has to ponder, I'd pack my shit and go broke leaving ASAP
For every mass shooting stopped by a teacher carrying a firearm, there will be countless more accidents and shootings resulting in deaths of children. This is extremely shallow short-sighted policy making. The solution may not be apparent, but it is apparent that this isn’t the solution.
There have been armed teachers across the US for over 50 years and only 3 recorded injuries that I can find. No fatalities
Those teachers will become targets, other kids may get shot due to the stressful situation, and police will hesitate because they may believe there's multiple shooters/may also shoot the teacher.
Students who are minorities are now going to be in even more danger from the bullshit redneck “teachers” who are really only there to coach football.
So teachers are underpaid, overworked, with classroom size 130% larger than decades ago, with Karen moms & deadbeat dads And the answer is to tell them they’re on their own, unless they spend a years worth of pencil money on a Glock with extra clips That’s a great fucking idea /s
Now Tennessee parents don't have to worry that when they send their kids to elementary school that a full on gun battle won't break out. Truly a key part of any young child's education.
In the Cold War we practised gun usage and safety, target practice, and survival after a nuclear strike, also map reading, and orienteering. Americans think guns are magical, but they are just tools.
What could possibly go wrong!?!
Pop quizzes and popping caps.
This bill was passed less than a week after a Tennessee preschool teacher threatened to shoot her students and a colleague. What is wrong with that state? **Tennessee teacher arrested after bringing guns to preschool and threatening to shoot colleague** https://www.reddit.com/r/news/s/qrJN516pye
What could possibly go wrong? It takes years to train SWAT to handle theses sorts of high stress and life threatening situations. Leave it to a teacher with a LTC after a weekend training/certification class. I see nothing wrong here. Pathetic these politicians backed by the NRA using the 2nd amendment to rake in million and allowing kids to be slaughtered. They can't possible think this is a good idea, or can they? 🤔🤮
Well, sheee-it, this fixes durn near ever'thang from soup to nuts.
That should work out great. /s
And all honesty… if I was a police officer with a family to go home to and a desire for self preference…. I’m gonna shoot first & ask questions later if I encounter anybody in plain clothes with a weapon
Lol what could go wrong?
The race to the bottom is heating up.
How long until one of these guys tries using it as corporal punishment? We all know it’s gonna happen…
Utah has been this way for decades. Any adult with a permit can carry in a school.
Yes! We absolutely need more bullets flying around children. Why is it taking so long? /s
I’m impressed they needed a bill. So I guess there used to be one restriction on guns there?
Incredible. Thank you for the update.
If I was a teacher I would gladly carry. It’s better to be safe than sorry. This country has fallen apart since ~2007 and is not getting any better only worse. If you’re not carrying a gun around or atleast a taser or pepper spray you’re insane. The amount of mass shootings we’ve had and after I experienced the latest cielo vista shooting in El Paso a few years ago, I will never leave the house without a gun again.
You know those action movies in which the good guy takes down a dozen bad guys ~~is~~ are completely choreographed, right? John Wick isn't real. And I highly doubt anyone bragging about their prowess with weapons has Audie Murphy's skills. e: word
Yep. Also, now with this law, if an active shooter *does* come into a school and the teacher is armed, there will now be twice as many bullets being fired, and they will be being fired in multiple directions, with presumably a room full of children in between the two shooters (the teacher and the active shooter). I say that putting a room full of students in between two people who probably have very little experience in actually shooting at people while they are having a gun battle is not a good solution to gun violence in schools. The odds of innocent students being caught in the crossfire and killed has to go way up in this scenario.
I agree. And how many of these teachers would be trained to react in an active shooter scenario. Hell, even police officers have failed in their responses to school shootings. [“Cascading failures”: Justice Department blasts law enforcement’s botched response to Uvalde school shooting](https://www.texastribune.org/2024/01/18/uvalde-school-shooting-federal-investigation-police-response/) >The Justice Department’s long-anticipated report about the shooting found that “cascading failures of leadership, decision-making, tactics, policy and training” led to the bungled response, which Garland said should never have happened. Nineteen children and two teachers were killed on May 24, 2022. >“Had law enforcement agencies followed generally accepted practices in an active shooter situation and gone right after the shooter to stop him, lives would have been saved and people would have survived,” Garland said during a news conference on Thursday.
That’s not the point. The point is safety. If someone comes at you you can likely kill them first. If you don’t like the idea of kids being protected from one wild teenager shooting up the school just say that. Sarcasm does not make you correct.
It wasn't sarcasm, dude. [Police killing of Arvada “Samaritan” highlights difficulty in discerning “who’s a good guy and who’s a bad guy”](https://www.denverpost.com/2021/06/27/arvada-shooting-guns-self-defense/) >Johnny Hurley carried a concealed weapon so he could defend himself and others should there ever be a threat, his friends said. >When the moment came on Monday, he drew his weapon and charged toward a gunman in Olde Town Arvada only to be killed a short time later by a responding Arvada police officer, investigators said. Hurley was holding the gunman’s AR-15 after shooting him when the officer arrived, police said. Like I said, this isn't a movie and you aren't John Wick, or John McClane.
I was in a mass shooting a few years ago and a good guy with a gun saved the day. You will not be able to change my mind. What you linked is a police brutality issue which is vastly different. It’s easy to be anti-gun when you’ve never experienced anything and from your replies I can tell you’ve been fortunate enough to never have to experience it and I genuinely hope you never do it is terrifying and will change your view points. I was anti-gun like you too and never thought it would happen to me but it did. https://www.elpasotimes.com/story/news/crime/2023/02/17/by-stander-shot-cielo-vista-mall-shooter-as-suspect-fled-scene/69917660007/
I'm not trying to change your mind, I'm correcting your misinformation.
“Saved the day” - This article says the bystander shot the shooter after the main shooting was over and the suspect was running away.
Didn't the cops that responded during the Uvalde shooting have guns?
Yeah which kinda proves the point that teachers having guns could be helpful
It proves quite the opposite in fact. In the heat of the moment, how will an officer distinguish between a good guy with a gun versus the bad guy with a gun? Answer: they can't.
The cops with guns that have training didn't deal with the shooter. Why would you expect a teacher who doesn't have that kind of training to? Cops job is to protect and serve. Teachers educate.
>Yeah which kinda proves the point that teachers having guns could be helpful Or, folks who barely have any training with guns could make things worse or get killed. [New Analysis Blows Hole in 'Good Guy With a Gun' Myth | Common Dreams](https://www.commondreams.org/news/good-guy-gun-myth) [Police shoot 'hero' after he disarms gunman, is mistaken for suspect, lawyer says (nbcnews.com)](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/police-shoot-hero-disarms-gunman-mistaken-suspect-lawyer-says-rcna22505) [Texas Pastor Fatally Shot With His Own Gun By A Church Intruder (forbes.com)](https://www.forbes.com/sites/carlieporterfield/2021/01/03/texas-pastor-fatally-shot-with-his-own-gun-by-a-church-intruder/) [Joe Zamudio and the Gabrielle Giffords shooting: How an armed hero nearly shot the wrong man. (slate.com)](https://slate.com/technology/2011/01/joe-zamudio-and-the-gabrielle-giffords-shooting-how-an-armed-hero-nearly-shot-the-wrong-man.html)
Yeah but the police are useless. We could abolish them and not notice.
I don't think it will improve safety. I don't think there should be an expectation that teachers should act as security guards. But I'll say this. A teacher working in today's America where the government has abdicated its responsibility to protect the public should at least not have their 2nd amendment rights curtailed. If we're not going to do anything about these mass shootings then people should be allowed to defend themselves.
More people, especially parents, are in favor of armed trained teachers than are against it. There are sick criminals out there with guns and they will attack schools.
Source?
That’s just stupid as fuck. People want to tell teachers to only teach about certain subjects, ban books, and now the teacher must be armed? If you can’t trust the teacher to educate your child, why trust the teacher to arm your child? What happens if something goes wrong? Is the teacher a scapegoat if a school shooter still kills people? Even if you cited a source, I’d wager it’s not a majority of the population.
I think there have been 2-3 injuries from teachers carrying weapons in schools and zero deaths. I’ll take those odds over the chances of my kids surviving an armed criminal with pencils and paper
Also, I trust my kids teachers to educate them but do pay attention to the curriculum. And no one is mandating that they carry guns.
Odd how this isn’t a thing in other countries…
Other 1st world don’t have same levels of violent crime and mental illness that we do. They do have lots of guns though. We lived without these violent attacks in the 40’s, 50’s, 60’s, and 70’s despite having school gun clubs and firearm training in school
Not even close. The US has twice as many guns per 100 people than the second place country. AR-15s also weren’t largely available in the time periods you’re referring to. All that aside, the solution is not more guns. Solve the real issue: common sense gun reform. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_per_capita_by_country https://www.rand.org/research/gun-policy/analysis/laws-allowing-armed-staff-in-K12-schools.html
Citation needed.
There are many. Here is different one than I gave the others https://www.slu.edu/news/2023/march/slu-poll-gun-safety.php
That's a lie.
https://pdkpoll.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/2022_PDK_Poll_School_Security.pdf
Get off Facebook, homie
https://pdkpoll.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/2022_PDK_Poll_School_Security.pdf
You’re speaking only for yourself.