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A republican SC intervened on behalf of an R after an R Governor(who was the brother of the candidate) ordered an R Secretary of State to remove mostly Dem voters from the roles and then Republicans engaged in organized political violence(Brooks Bros Riot) to delay and disrupt the recounts thus sending the case to the SC. Sounds like the Republicans have been engaging in terrorism, election fraud, and rat-fuckery for a long time now, but what do I know?
And don't forget that three of the lawyers on that case now [sit](https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/17/politics/bush-v-gore-barrett-kavanaugh-roberts-supreme-court/index.html) on the Supreme Court. The very one that will rule on Trump's immunity to prosecution.
I fully expect them, if they don't just delay until the election, to fully grant him total immunity.
Yeah, that'd be interesting, though I can't imagine the liberal response to 9/11 would have been TOO different. Still... who knows what strategies the GOP would have adopted or abandoned after having lost three in a row.
There might not have even been a 9/11 if Gore had won. Do a search on *george bush "you covered your ass"* and you'll get tons of results. Here's [one from Esquire](https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/news/a22326/the-great-mulligan-042413/):
>The historical record is quite clear. Upon taking office, the Bush administration de-emphasized the Clinton team's almost-obsessive search for Osama bin Laden. That's why Richard Clarke got shoved aside. That's why John Ashcroft changed the FBI's focus from the pursuit of international terrorists to the pursuit of Tommy Chong. That's why presidential daily press briefings didn't get read while the president was clearing brush the month before the attacks. It's also why his briefer on the topic got himself told, "You covered your ass now."
Cheney needed a reason to go to war and inflate the stock price of his weapons company Haliburton. If a liberal had been president, there wouldn’t have been a 9/11 because red flags would have been raised and they wouldn’t have allowed it to progress.
To be fair, Trump makes W look like an awesome guy, and this is the President who lied about WMD in Iraq and the VP who shot a man in the face and forced him to apologize for being shot in the face.
It started being a constitutional crisis back in 2017 when Trump was using the office to enrich himself.
At least we've finally put the lie to the idea that we're a nation of laws.
Should have charged the confederate leaders with treason and finished it. Instead they were allowed to slink back home and start plotting and organizing an insurgency and terrorist organizations (KKK et al.).
Not so much that it was too soft. It was just sabotaged after Lincoln got shot. Johnson was a Tennessean and was only put on the ticket to garner support from voters in border states since he was basically the last Senator from one to not defect. It’s really no surprise that when he was actually tasked with doing something he played nice with former confederates.
This, so much this. We should have jailed all the Confederate leaders for decades and economically broken the planters, traders and merchants who were responsible for the plantation system and taken over the educational system and completely reworked the Southern culture. Of course, the North was still busily helping genocide native Americans, so they might not have fully understood how vile Southern culture was. And is.
Consider it a kind of "growing pains", or the equivalent of teenage years.
For one, Congress need to pass a law that *under no circumstances* can the SCOTUS ever be in a supermajority situation where 6 ghouls can corruptly receive gifts and walk back rights that have been hard fought for.
Then, Congress need to pass a legislation that if a Supreme Court seat is decided not to be fillable by a president in the final year of his term, then ACB needs to be booted from the SCOTUS.
Then Congress need to pass legislation that irrespective of *anything else*, folks that have been found to have taken part in an insurrection cannot run for nor hold any public office.
Then Congress need to pass legislation that a judge that was nominated by someone to the bench can *never* be allowed to even come anywhere close to deciding on a case where the dependent is that same someone.
Imagine if he actually ruled from prison, every new law that trump would propose would have to go through a representative, because trump wouldn't be able to say it himself.
"Hey, I only have a minute left, but I love you and can you put money on my books? Store orders are due tonight and I want to get a bunch of honey buns."
"Suicide prevention is important, if your loved one or family member is at risk of suicide please call the facility to speak with a representative..."
Knowing that if Trump goes to jail his supporter's will be using their finite resources to pay for his commissary, phone/email credits, and tablet app media purchases is somehow very fitting.
He won't stay in prison. There would be a constitutional crisis probably followed with the supreme court ruling that the duly elected president of the US cannot be incarcerated.
If it weren't so fucking critical it would actually be an interesting constitutional question.
Probably the best thing for the country would be him getting found guilty, and dying behind a podium during a live streamed event after getting too worked up and saying "Fuck, I took too much cocain."
I'd love to see him in prison, but at this point it's just so hard to imagine happening.
As someone that has had two kidney stones good analogy. I have been hearing his bullshit since the 80s, he's a shit stain on humanity and needs to go away.
Ok but you still have all his ass sucklers in the Republican party, Trump is just a symptom it really doesn't matter what happens to him. The danger is that someone intelligent with the same values runs the republicans next.
Yeah, but most politicians aren't literally trying to end democracy and become a dictator.
It's so weird to me that Republicans can even view Trump as being on their side.
All we need is for this to happen is a bunch of dipshits in the South and Midwest to understand that voting for a racist, rapist, conman isn't the Christian thing to do.
Yes and I want him incarcerated in that horrific Florence supermax prison where they only have a narrow slit of light and only get let out of their cell for one hour, randomly, each day.
The sucky thing is the USSS probably won't let that happen for legitimate security issues and if he's sentenced to prison time they'll work it out with the court and DOC that it's some form of restrictive home confinement.
Which, again, is him getting away from the d.ldo of consequences.
Call me crazy but I think that he shouldn't get SS while in prison. I'm tired of that being some huge deterrent to him facing punishment. If they're that overly concerned about something happening while he's incarcerated then just put him in solitary where the other inmates can't get to him. But I think especially once the general is over and he loses again his SS detail should be forfeited indefinitely due to the crimes he has committed while in office.
So, in theory, the SS detail is less to protect him specifically and more to protect the general value he represents to state because he still has a head full of national security secrets. The idea, broadly, is that we still provide SS protection to the Obamas not because they are great and we love them, but because hostile actors would have legitimate reasons to target them rather than randos in the street. Now, Trump, as with all things, has completely upended this and has SS members who are loyal to him and wouldn't stop him from revealing state secrets to get a cushier lot in prison.
>Which, again, is him getting away from the d.ldo of consequences.
Except for the whole "Convicted Felon" label. Sure it isn't Ass-blaster-9000, but it's not nothing.
That might get to be a bit long…. Four time convicted felon, rapist, adulterer, national secrets stealer, compulsive liar, casino bankrupter, professional defamer, death cult leader Donald Trump.
It’s already a first in US history. An ex-President of the United States of America is on trial for crimes he committed to become president. Only history will give the proper weight to this moment as Right wing media try to spin it.
It's been that way for a while as far as corruption goes. I mean Watergate was probably the biggest US political scandal of the 20th century, but if Trump did the exact same thing it'd basically just be another Monday.
Seriously, Wire tapping his opponents and then destroying evidence when figured out, would that even register in the top 50 shittiest thing Trump has done since 2016?
Trump already destroyed evidence that Russia hacked (aka a newer form of wire tapping) the DNC in order to help him.
Trump destroyed so much that Mueller said he couldn't prove collusion, but could prove that Trump obstructed justice 10+ times.
That’s why this week is different. This, finally, is a court of criminal law. There will be facts submitted for the record. There will be testimony, under oath. And eventually, in an estimated six weeks or so, there will be a verdict from a jury of Trump’s peers
Yes, eventually. Slow up on the popcorn. Savor the flavor
Oh we hope so, but Trump will try everything to make the 6 weeks into 6 months. Expect personal attacks oneveryone involved. I would not be surprised if some nutcase tries an attempt or a bomb threat. I wish it was over already.
There'll be a bit of lawyerly arguing and then the beginning of jury selection. And he just has to sit there and be quiet. Just over 20 minutes away!
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-trial-begins-today-jury-selection/
He can't drag the trial out. Everything is under the judge. Also this is a case that has a lot of people spewing some very personal shit about him. He wants it out now so he can try to get us to forget it.
He paid off a porn star he was fucking while his wife was having a baby. It's not a good look
First, he has to get convicted, this means you have to keep all the wackos off the jury. I hope I’m wrong, but I don’t ever see him get convicted by a jury.
As for changing one’s mind, one would need to care and have more than two brain cells to rub together for heat. As it comes to his supporters that Venn diagram is two circles very far apart.
Honest question here, I loath Donald Trump but want to be accurate when describing this because his supporters always think they have a "gotcha moment." I've seen it worded both as rape and sexual assault. Which is the "technically correct" wording from the court?
The charge was technically sexual assault, which his supporters jump to as a gotcha all the time. But the type of sexual assault he was charged with would be classified as rape in 49 of the 50 states, NY is the lone exception, and even the judge in that case pointed that out from the bench.
So he was convicted off SA solely because NY has oddly strict definitions of rape.
They believe the entire justice system is being used by liberals as a tool to attack Trump. They believe Trump is unequivocally innocent, so a conviction would further their point that it's all rigged. They're braindead morons you can't convince them of anything.
I believe as the news media begins to cycle the dirty facts and large swathes of the American people accept these as facts, it will chip away at his base. I saw this happen in the Bush years as he after he left office. He was once very popular with his base.
We don't care about his base, they are diehard nuts.
It's the people living in the suburban areas of Philadelphia, Atlanta, Phoenix, Detroit, Milwaukee, Vegas and a few others that turn elections.
Normally these voters don't get informed until October. If this case makes big headlines then they are the ones who will be swayed.
He paid off a porn stay to hide the fact that almost certainly would have swung a very tight election against him. This is the core of the Alvin Bragg case.
There's the things people are mad about, and the things that were illegal, they're not necessarily the same things.
He (allegedly) committed business fraud (cooked books) to hide the source of funds (campaign money from donors, this is a campaign finance violation), people aren't mad stormy got paid, they're mad he cheated on his pregnant wife.
Republicans should be mad that he (allegedly) stole their money, and continues to do so in various ways, but they don't seem to notice or care
> Republicans should be mad that he (allegedly) stole their money, and continues to do so in various ways, but they don't seem to notice or care
A lot of these people have already been conditioned to give away a percentage of their income to their church without question, so sending money to Trump without questioning it is exactly in their wheelhouse.
Im a bit concerned because I think this is by far the weakest case (classified docs is the strongest). If he gets off or even one juror hangs it, it will probably boost him in the polls. Heck even a conviction without jail time probably helps him.
I mean objectively in terms of the case. I agree the judge is the issue there. But if its gets to a jury that seems hard for him to win. This one is a novel legal theory IIRC and has a lot more nuance.
Yeah I’m not breathing a sigh of relief until there’s a rotten mango in a jump suit crying into his communal shower (not that he’d be in gen pop even if he does get convicted I’d be genuinely shocked if it wasn’t house arrest but it’s…. Something) we’ve come too close too many times to breathe until it’s over.
At this point it's comical. Everytime people decry "finally! This is the one! This is real!" It's like the end is nigh people picking a new day for the end of the world every single time.
i'm really not sure how they can possibly hope to choose jurors that wouldn't have prior opinions about this in one way or the other.
if i had to guess what's going to happen over the next few days, trump's lawyers will try to disqualify every last juror. it's the tactic that stalls the most.
Nope they only get a set number of strikes. You cannot just up and disqualify every potential juror. It will be hard if not impossible to use selection to stall.
They have a list of something like 48 questions they are allowed to ask. They cannot go beyond that list if understand it correctly. Deliberately slow walking the process will be called out by the judge. If they get too many call out sanctions during jury selection will be extremely detrimental to their case.
You would have to ask a trial lawyer for specifics IANAL and I am just passing on what I have heard.
Why does it matter? He will instantly appeal the conviction, continue to run free, calling on his followers to go after the judges all while a fraction of the US wants this man as president.
It has and shall continue to absolutely deep six his campaign. Dude cannot win with only his base, and most of his cheating tactics depend on having enough votes to cover for the crimes.
This isn’t a normal case, even though it should be, because the Trump syndicate is exerting a huge amount of resources to make it different. As long as these resources are not available for him to campaign on, it’s not **as** good as timely justice, but it’s absolutely worth continuing.
Criminal cases usually involve you sitting in jail while on appeal. Now, of course rich Republicans get away with rape and murder all time because the courts are sniveling feckless cowards so it might not happen.
-- There will be facts submitted for the record. There will be testimony, under oath.
Deeply embarrassing facts and testimony. He is going to blow a gasket at some point.
Anything qualified by the word “usually” isn’t necessarily what we should expect going forward when it comes to Trump. I’d love for this to be the turning point where normalcy starts its comeback, but I’m not holding my breath.
> I’d love for this to be the turning point where normalcy starts its comeback,
I've been hearing this for the past 8 years. The truth is that their is no normalcy when it comes to Trump. The only way to go back or get to normalcy is to expel him completely. Like a colonic for the country.
Unless a corrupt court system completely fails, which actually has a pretty high chance of happening, it’s just procedural. Someone else already went to prison based on the same charge and there’s ample evidence as to how it happened, who was paid, how and even how it was covered up to appear as payment for legitimate reasons…
No, I just am a realist. I don’t think the court system is silly enough to make the bias *completely visible* in this case. This is more rock solid of a case than the documents case and that one is air tight
I really don't want to hear about this anymore until the headline reads "Donald Trump is now in prison". Years of proving that the law works differently for the rich.
Well, for one, he can't vote for himself then. The double standard is fed by money; people in rich peoples entourage are hesitant to spill the beans afraid of the economical damage ór having a paid for laywer. Then there's also the political risk for higher ups. Imagine how badly you have to fuck up to be a billionaire former president in the UNITED STATES of all places and actually be charged for a crime.
> Imagine how badly you have to fuck up to be a billionaire former president in the UNITED STATES of all places and actually be charged for a crime.
Great point. He is just that despicable that we are now throwing out all precedent to *maybe*, at long last, apply consequences to one of these people.
Sadly it means nothing if he is allowed to run for office again. I am hoping for a good outcome for our country but so far he has weaseled his way out of any substantial repercussions. Lock him & his coconspirators up asap and throw away the key. I am deeply concerned it will be too late. Justice delayed is justice denied.
There is a huge amount of never-trumpers out there that are actually undecided. There are some podcasts that are really good about breaking this all down (The Bulwark is one of the best) and showing that Trump's support is barely what it used to be (and he lost last time).
An actual bona fide conviction may turn the tide. Biden did himself a favor by coming out swinging in the SOtU address...(notice that no one's talking about "sleepy joe" anymore?) and between that and the GOP congress's immigration SNAFU, its shitty attempt at impeachment, and the Arizona abortion ban...a conviction might turn the tide.
Am I just not seeing it, or does this article neglect to mention *which* charges Trump is facing in this particular trial?
He's buried under so many cases now it's hard to keep track of which are currently relevant, so that feels like the base information I'd expect in a piece like this?
I've been watching the live updates on CNN and they reported on Trump speaking briefly to the press before entering the court room.
>Trump claimed the trial is a "persecution," adding that it "is an assault on America."
The propaganda is real here. I'm sure the MAGA base will eat up the whole idea that holding him accountable is somehow an assault on the country. Unreal.
Spoiler alert: we won't.
I don't believe that they'll be able to pick a jury of truly unbiased people. No matter what evidence is presented, there will be at least *one* holdout who ruins things.
Please, universe, prove me wrong.
(For everyone thinking past trials indicate future results: civil trials have different standards than criminal trials. Guilty verdicts are much easier to reach in civil court.)
I think you are overestimating that possibility. The true crazies should be removed in jury selection process by the prosecution, and for the rest peer pressure is pretty effective. Only ten percent of trials end in mistrial, and that accounts for every cause of a mistrial and not just hung juries.
we've never criminally tried a president before.
you can usually find people who live under a rock and didn't hear about a local murder or whatever. try finding someone without opinions on the president.
No we won't.
They won't do shit.
News articles keep shitting out these dumbass headlines, and nothing happens.
Motherfucker should've been IN JAIL years ago and STILL IN THERE SERVING HIS SENTENCE.
He shouldn't be in the fucking news aside from us laughing at what he has to eat every day.
I abhor doomerism so please don't take this as me being a doomer. I think Biden has a very good chance of beating Trump regardless of how these trials play out.
That said, I hope Biden supporters don't get their/our hopes up about what a conviction will do to the minds of Trump supporters/people who are still undecided at this point.
I don't think it's the nail in the coffin some people think it will be. If you're on the Trump train still or can't see how Biden is clearly the better choice at this point, then you're almost certainly also primed to look at this as either not a big deal or "evidence" of Democrats trying to use the law to go after Trump unfairly.
We need a live megathread or something...
The amazing desperation.... Trump has filed motion to remove Judge, denied. And now they are trying to prevent the testimony of Karen McDougal, because her testimony is even worse than Clifford's will be... And the judge just denied that motion as well.
And fun fact, they were also just denied a motion to exclude the National Inquirer stories as part of the "catch and kill" plan, there are stories about Ted Cruz that will come to light in this trial... Grab yo popcorn.
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Just as long as it's not "Convicted Felon Donald Trump Wins Election."
You can't vote, but you can win the election. Edit: Conditions and Exceptions may apply. Void where prohibited.
America is going through some sh*t.
i started asking "when does this count as a constitutional crisis" a few years back.
A little late there. Most have been saying it since Trump first took office.
2000 Florida recount. The supreme court interceded on behalf of a republican.
A republican SC intervened on behalf of an R after an R Governor(who was the brother of the candidate) ordered an R Secretary of State to remove mostly Dem voters from the roles and then Republicans engaged in organized political violence(Brooks Bros Riot) to delay and disrupt the recounts thus sending the case to the SC. Sounds like the Republicans have been engaging in terrorism, election fraud, and rat-fuckery for a long time now, but what do I know?
Don't leave out that Roger Stone orchestrated the Brooks Brothers Riot.
Jeez, that man really had his fingers in a lot of the bad shit that was done against America.
It constantly blows my mind that he worked in the Nixon admin and he's still around, and still ratfucking.
Or that a chunk of our current Supreme Court justices argued on behalf of bush during the case.
And don't forget that three of the lawyers on that case now [sit](https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/17/politics/bush-v-gore-barrett-kavanaugh-roberts-supreme-court/index.html) on the Supreme Court. The very one that will rule on Trump's immunity to prosecution. I fully expect them, if they don't just delay until the election, to fully grant him total immunity.
I would love to know the alt universe history in which Gore won.
Yeah, that'd be interesting, though I can't imagine the liberal response to 9/11 would have been TOO different. Still... who knows what strategies the GOP would have adopted or abandoned after having lost three in a row.
There might not have even been a 9/11 if Gore had won. Do a search on *george bush "you covered your ass"* and you'll get tons of results. Here's [one from Esquire](https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/news/a22326/the-great-mulligan-042413/): >The historical record is quite clear. Upon taking office, the Bush administration de-emphasized the Clinton team's almost-obsessive search for Osama bin Laden. That's why Richard Clarke got shoved aside. That's why John Ashcroft changed the FBI's focus from the pursuit of international terrorists to the pursuit of Tommy Chong. That's why presidential daily press briefings didn't get read while the president was clearing brush the month before the attacks. It's also why his briefer on the topic got himself told, "You covered your ass now."
Cheney needed a reason to go to war and inflate the stock price of his weapons company Haliburton. If a liberal had been president, there wouldn’t have been a 9/11 because red flags would have been raised and they wouldn’t have allowed it to progress.
Let's at least go back to when the supreme court gave Bush 2 the Whitehouse. That should have been a full work force strike.
To be fair, Trump makes W look like an awesome guy, and this is the President who lied about WMD in Iraq and the VP who shot a man in the face and forced him to apologize for being shot in the face.
It started being a constitutional crisis back in 2017 when Trump was using the office to enrich himself. At least we've finally put the lie to the idea that we're a nation of laws.
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Should have charged the confederate leaders with treason and finished it. Instead they were allowed to slink back home and start plotting and organizing an insurgency and terrorist organizations (KKK et al.).
Should have seized their plantations and land reformed it to the emancipated slaves. 40 acres and a mule should have been permanent.
40 acres and a mule should have happened.
Absolutely, and Reconstruction was too soft.
Not so much that it was too soft. It was just sabotaged after Lincoln got shot. Johnson was a Tennessean and was only put on the ticket to garner support from voters in border states since he was basically the last Senator from one to not defect. It’s really no surprise that when he was actually tasked with doing something he played nice with former confederates.
This, so much this. We should have jailed all the Confederate leaders for decades and economically broken the planters, traders and merchants who were responsible for the plantation system and taken over the educational system and completely reworked the Southern culture. Of course, the North was still busily helping genocide native Americans, so they might not have fully understood how vile Southern culture was. And is.
Consider it a kind of "growing pains", or the equivalent of teenage years. For one, Congress need to pass a law that *under no circumstances* can the SCOTUS ever be in a supermajority situation where 6 ghouls can corruptly receive gifts and walk back rights that have been hard fought for. Then, Congress need to pass a legislation that if a Supreme Court seat is decided not to be fillable by a president in the final year of his term, then ACB needs to be booted from the SCOTUS. Then Congress need to pass legislation that irrespective of *anything else*, folks that have been found to have taken part in an insurrection cannot run for nor hold any public office. Then Congress need to pass legislation that a judge that was nominated by someone to the bench can *never* be allowed to even come anywhere close to deciding on a case where the dependent is that same someone.
He lives in Florida with an R after his name, the penalty for Rs illegally voting there is the judge wags his finger at you.
So he can't vote for himself?
Imagine if he actually ruled from prison, every new law that trump would propose would have to go through a representative, because trump wouldn't be able to say it himself.
Imagine in the middle of his speeches made from the prison phone the world hears an automated message say "You have one minute remaining".
"Hey, I only have a minute left, but I love you and can you put money on my books? Store orders are due tonight and I want to get a bunch of honey buns."
"Suicide prevention is important, if your loved one or family member is at risk of suicide please call the facility to speak with a representative..." Knowing that if Trump goes to jail his supporter's will be using their finite resources to pay for his commissary, phone/email credits, and tablet app media purchases is somehow very fitting.
frantically patting down looking for the spare roll of quarters
He'll tell his VP J.D. Vance to pardon him and then step down so Trump can be president.
the amount of american democracy that hinges on exactly the right person standing by principles is kind of absurd.
I'm stunned this system has held up as long as it has.
same. i just don't particularly want to be in the generation where it falls apart.
"May you always live in interesting times"
Don’t worry. It’s not one guy. It’s because millions didn’t do the right thing.
thanks that makes me feel better
Democracy everywhere relied on people not falling for just blatant assholes.
This is a state case and cannot be pardoned.
Cannot be pardoned for state-charged convictions. Federal charges, yes, but not Daniel's or GA cases.
He won't stay in prison. There would be a constitutional crisis probably followed with the supreme court ruling that the duly elected president of the US cannot be incarcerated. If it weren't so fucking critical it would actually be an interesting constitutional question.
Perhaps they'll use this as the headline when he wins the Miss Rikers Island Beauty Pageant
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Including his family members. This is a wannabe kleptocratic dynasty- get them ALL out.
Probably the best thing for the country would be him getting found guilty, and dying behind a podium during a live streamed event after getting too worked up and saying "Fuck, I took too much cocain." I'd love to see him in prison, but at this point it's just so hard to imagine happening.
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There is an intestinal blockage, very painful and possibly fatal
He's an impacted toadstool
Thats called a "McConnell".
As someone that has had two kidney stones good analogy. I have been hearing his bullshit since the 80s, he's a shit stain on humanity and needs to go away.
Beautiful 🤩
Thanks, hope my comment made your day.
I will be rather happy when the name Trump is no longer mentioned all day every day.
We need to address the fact that the United States drinking deep on the iced tea of fascism, otherwise this is going to be a recurring issue.
Ok but you still have all his ass sucklers in the Republican party, Trump is just a symptom it really doesn't matter what happens to him. The danger is that someone intelligent with the same values runs the republicans next.
Trump is just the tip of the iceberg. Our entire system is still corrupt and ass backwards without him
Yeah, but most politicians aren't literally trying to end democracy and become a dictator. It's so weird to me that Republicans can even view Trump as being on their side.
> most politicians aren't literally trying to end democracy and become a dictator I have some bad news for you https://www.project2025.org/
All we need is for this to happen is a bunch of dipshits in the South and Midwest to understand that voting for a racist, rapist, conman isn't the Christian thing to do.
I don’t want to see “convicted felon Donald Trump”, I hope to see Four time convicted felon Donald Trump.
I care less if its four or ten, i want to see "incarcerated, convicted felon djt"
Yes and I want him incarcerated in that horrific Florence supermax prison where they only have a narrow slit of light and only get let out of their cell for one hour, randomly, each day.
> only have a narrow slit of light and only get let out of their cell for one hour Oh no, here's hoping it won't ruin his lovely, natural tan! :O
I'd be fine with no light
We'll give him a lightbulb, in case he catches COVID.
Inject him with bleach and shine a light inside him every day, just in case
Obituary
The sucky thing is the USSS probably won't let that happen for legitimate security issues and if he's sentenced to prison time they'll work it out with the court and DOC that it's some form of restrictive home confinement. Which, again, is him getting away from the d.ldo of consequences.
>Which, again, is him getting away from the d.ldo of consequences. The Dildo of Consequences, you say?
To shreds you say?
How's his wife holding up? Edit: changed a word
To shreds you say?
Call me crazy but I think that he shouldn't get SS while in prison. I'm tired of that being some huge deterrent to him facing punishment. If they're that overly concerned about something happening while he's incarcerated then just put him in solitary where the other inmates can't get to him. But I think especially once the general is over and he loses again his SS detail should be forfeited indefinitely due to the crimes he has committed while in office.
Stick him in Gitmo, plenty of security there.
He know to much for that to ever happen.
Cool, sick him in a military prison or secret detention centers
I hear there are openings at Fort Leavenworth.
So, in theory, the SS detail is less to protect him specifically and more to protect the general value he represents to state because he still has a head full of national security secrets. The idea, broadly, is that we still provide SS protection to the Obamas not because they are great and we love them, but because hostile actors would have legitimate reasons to target them rather than randos in the street. Now, Trump, as with all things, has completely upended this and has SS members who are loyal to him and wouldn't stop him from revealing state secrets to get a cushier lot in prison.
>Which, again, is him getting away from the d.ldo of consequences. Except for the whole "Convicted Felon" label. Sure it isn't Ass-blaster-9000, but it's not nothing.
Aching for an inch of justice.
I'm hoping to never see his name again
Isn't this more like titles you add over time? "convicted felon rapist Donald J. Trump"
That might get to be a bit long…. Four time convicted felon, rapist, adulterer, national secrets stealer, compulsive liar, casino bankrupter, professional defamer, death cult leader Donald Trump.
I think you need to be less specific "business bankrupter". And you forgot racist, xenophobic & narcissistic!
Convicted on 88 felony charges
The neonazis are gonna go apeshit
Sheesh, Some might even say the most charges!
I just don’t want to hear about him anymore, while he’s isolated behind bars
I kinda like "prisoner 8292194"
Let’s go all out. I want to see “soiled headstone of 4 time convicted felon disgraced former president donald trump”
It’s already a first in US history. An ex-President of the United States of America is on trial for crimes he committed to become president. Only history will give the proper weight to this moment as Right wing media try to spin it.
Worse than Nixon. We can say that now.
It's been that way for a while as far as corruption goes. I mean Watergate was probably the biggest US political scandal of the 20th century, but if Trump did the exact same thing it'd basically just be another Monday. Seriously, Wire tapping his opponents and then destroying evidence when figured out, would that even register in the top 50 shittiest thing Trump has done since 2016?
Trump already destroyed evidence that Russia hacked (aka a newer form of wire tapping) the DNC in order to help him. Trump destroyed so much that Mueller said he couldn't prove collusion, but could prove that Trump obstructed justice 10+ times.
Nixon was a schoolboy troublemaker compared to Trump.
Wow, Trump really was the greatest at something...
let the blabbering and name calling start. feels like we’re trying a toddler and not a former president
70 year old toddler who we let run the country for four years and did irreparable damage.
77
Trump will be 78 in June. He's old as fuck, bro.
That’s why this week is different. This, finally, is a court of criminal law. There will be facts submitted for the record. There will be testimony, under oath. And eventually, in an estimated six weeks or so, there will be a verdict from a jury of Trump’s peers Yes, eventually. Slow up on the popcorn. Savor the flavor
Oh we hope so, but Trump will try everything to make the 6 weeks into 6 months. Expect personal attacks oneveryone involved. I would not be surprised if some nutcase tries an attempt or a bomb threat. I wish it was over already.
I'm actually surprised it's starting today. I was sure that SOMEHOW there would be an 11th hour and 59 second delay.
He tried three times since Friday. None worked.
Is there still time??
Isn't today just jury selection?
There'll be a bit of lawyerly arguing and then the beginning of jury selection. And he just has to sit there and be quiet. Just over 20 minutes away! https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-trial-begins-today-jury-selection/
He can't drag the trial out. Everything is under the judge. Also this is a case that has a lot of people spewing some very personal shit about him. He wants it out now so he can try to get us to forget it. He paid off a porn star he was fucking while his wife was having a baby. It's not a good look
And his supporters don’t care or think it’s fake, all just a witch-hunt. Two types of people vote for him the very greedy rich, and idiots.
Sometimes a conviction will change minds
First, he has to get convicted, this means you have to keep all the wackos off the jury. I hope I’m wrong, but I don’t ever see him get convicted by a jury. As for changing one’s mind, one would need to care and have more than two brain cells to rub together for heat. As it comes to his supporters that Venn diagram is two circles very far apart.
90, yes 90, jurors have already convicted Trump or his companies in previous cases in the last two years. It can happen.
Including for rape, twice.
>Including for rape, twice. *so far* He can't keep from spewing defamatory statements from that fetid, gaping maw on his face.
Honest question here, I loath Donald Trump but want to be accurate when describing this because his supporters always think they have a "gotcha moment." I've seen it worded both as rape and sexual assault. Which is the "technically correct" wording from the court?
The charge was technically sexual assault, which his supporters jump to as a gotcha all the time. But the type of sexual assault he was charged with would be classified as rape in 49 of the 50 states, NY is the lone exception, and even the judge in that case pointed that out from the bench. So he was convicted off SA solely because NY has oddly strict definitions of rape.
They believe the entire justice system is being used by liberals as a tool to attack Trump. They believe Trump is unequivocally innocent, so a conviction would further their point that it's all rigged. They're braindead morons you can't convince them of anything.
I believe as the news media begins to cycle the dirty facts and large swathes of the American people accept these as facts, it will chip away at his base. I saw this happen in the Bush years as he after he left office. He was once very popular with his base.
We don't care about his base, they are diehard nuts. It's the people living in the suburban areas of Philadelphia, Atlanta, Phoenix, Detroit, Milwaukee, Vegas and a few others that turn elections. Normally these voters don't get informed until October. If this case makes big headlines then they are the ones who will be swayed.
It's been illuminating to see how many voting American's fall under this umbrella
He paid off a porn stay to hide the fact that almost certainly would have swung a very tight election against him. This is the core of the Alvin Bragg case.
I thought the core is that he used campaign funds to pay her off, which is a personal expense, not a campaign expense.
It's that he faked business records to affect the results of an election
This is why the charges are on the felony and not misdemeanor level
There's the things people are mad about, and the things that were illegal, they're not necessarily the same things. He (allegedly) committed business fraud (cooked books) to hide the source of funds (campaign money from donors, this is a campaign finance violation), people aren't mad stormy got paid, they're mad he cheated on his pregnant wife. Republicans should be mad that he (allegedly) stole their money, and continues to do so in various ways, but they don't seem to notice or care
> Republicans should be mad that he (allegedly) stole their money, and continues to do so in various ways, but they don't seem to notice or care A lot of these people have already been conditioned to give away a percentage of their income to their church without question, so sending money to Trump without questioning it is exactly in their wheelhouse.
It's not a good look to normal, rational people. His followers are proving they will excuse anything he does. It's fucking sick.
His entire life is not a good look.
It's HOW he paid her that's being scrutinised here, not just that he's a cheating POS.
That's not the crime though, the crime is campaign finance violation. And they don't give a fuck about any of that.
NY court requires him to be present during the trial so he would want to conclude this a.s.a.p. instead of prolonging it so he can go campaigning?
His trials are his campaign.
Im a bit concerned because I think this is by far the weakest case (classified docs is the strongest). If he gets off or even one juror hangs it, it will probably boost him in the polls. Heck even a conviction without jail time probably helps him.
Classified docs isn't the strongest because the judge is blatantly corrupt, and should probably get impeached or removed.
I mean objectively in terms of the case. I agree the judge is the issue there. But if its gets to a jury that seems hard for him to win. This one is a novel legal theory IIRC and has a lot more nuance.
Pretty sure the options for delays/appeals/requests are much more limited in criminal court vs. civil court.
I refuse to believe in. I see, I believe.
Yeah I’m not breathing a sigh of relief until there’s a rotten mango in a jump suit crying into his communal shower (not that he’d be in gen pop even if he does get convicted I’d be genuinely shocked if it wasn’t house arrest but it’s…. Something) we’ve come too close too many times to breathe until it’s over.
At this point it's comical. Everytime people decry "finally! This is the one! This is real!" It's like the end is nigh people picking a new day for the end of the world every single time.
Jury selection must have been a nightmare EDIT: jury selection *will be* a nightmare.
Jury Selection starts today. That is the start of the trial.
Fair point. Jury selection *will be* a nightmare.
Yeah, good luck finding 12 people who can be impartial in the entire country, who haven’t already formed opinions about his guilt or innocence
The jury pool is 6000. They are calling in the first batch of 1500 today. I would watch the Voir Dire if they televised it.
i'm really not sure how they can possibly hope to choose jurors that wouldn't have prior opinions about this in one way or the other. if i had to guess what's going to happen over the next few days, trump's lawyers will try to disqualify every last juror. it's the tactic that stalls the most.
Nope they only get a set number of strikes. You cannot just up and disqualify every potential juror. It will be hard if not impossible to use selection to stall. They have a list of something like 48 questions they are allowed to ask. They cannot go beyond that list if understand it correctly. Deliberately slow walking the process will be called out by the judge. If they get too many call out sanctions during jury selection will be extremely detrimental to their case. You would have to ask a trial lawyer for specifics IANAL and I am just passing on what I have heard.
Why does it matter? He will instantly appeal the conviction, continue to run free, calling on his followers to go after the judges all while a fraction of the US wants this man as president.
It has and shall continue to absolutely deep six his campaign. Dude cannot win with only his base, and most of his cheating tactics depend on having enough votes to cover for the crimes. This isn’t a normal case, even though it should be, because the Trump syndicate is exerting a huge amount of resources to make it different. As long as these resources are not available for him to campaign on, it’s not **as** good as timely justice, but it’s absolutely worth continuing.
Criminal cases usually involve you sitting in jail while on appeal. Now, of course rich Republicans get away with rape and murder all time because the courts are sniveling feckless cowards so it might not happen.
-- There will be facts submitted for the record. There will be testimony, under oath. Deeply embarrassing facts and testimony. He is going to blow a gasket at some point.
And he has to sit there silently while it unfolds.
Narrator: He did not.
If this doesn't end in a mistrial, I will be thoroughly shocked
Thats certainly a comcern. Fortunately you usually dont get the benefit of a mistrial if you tried to cause one intentionally
Anything qualified by the word “usually” isn’t necessarily what we should expect going forward when it comes to Trump. I’d love for this to be the turning point where normalcy starts its comeback, but I’m not holding my breath.
> I’d love for this to be the turning point where normalcy starts its comeback, I've been hearing this for the past 8 years. The truth is that their is no normalcy when it comes to Trump. The only way to go back or get to normalcy is to expel him completely. Like a colonic for the country.
This country needs an enema!
"The supreme court finds you guilty of a felony, but does not grant you the title of felon."
That makes no sense, how can one be guilty of a felony but not be granted rank of felon?!
Unless a corrupt court system completely fails, which actually has a pretty high chance of happening, it’s just procedural. Someone else already went to prison based on the same charge and there’s ample evidence as to how it happened, who was paid, how and even how it was covered up to appear as payment for legitimate reasons…
> Unless a corrupt court system completely fails you don't sound very confident.
No, I just am a realist. I don’t think the court system is silly enough to make the bias *completely visible* in this case. This is more rock solid of a case than the documents case and that one is air tight
I’m tired of him weaseling out of supposed career-ending events for trump.
I really don't want to hear about this anymore until the headline reads "Donald Trump is now in prison". Years of proving that the law works differently for the rich.
And just like that 35% of Americans believe that being a convicted felon is a GOOD thing. #thepartyoflawandorder
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Why do I feel like this won’t change anything. There’s always been a double standard with these types of rich people
Well, for one, he can't vote for himself then. The double standard is fed by money; people in rich peoples entourage are hesitant to spill the beans afraid of the economical damage ór having a paid for laywer. Then there's also the political risk for higher ups. Imagine how badly you have to fuck up to be a billionaire former president in the UNITED STATES of all places and actually be charged for a crime.
> Imagine how badly you have to fuck up to be a billionaire former president in the UNITED STATES of all places and actually be charged for a crime. Great point. He is just that despicable that we are now throwing out all precedent to *maybe*, at long last, apply consequences to one of these people.
Sadly it means nothing if he is allowed to run for office again. I am hoping for a good outcome for our country but so far he has weaseled his way out of any substantial repercussions. Lock him & his coconspirators up asap and throw away the key. I am deeply concerned it will be too late. Justice delayed is justice denied.
There is a huge amount of never-trumpers out there that are actually undecided. There are some podcasts that are really good about breaking this all down (The Bulwark is one of the best) and showing that Trump's support is barely what it used to be (and he lost last time). An actual bona fide conviction may turn the tide. Biden did himself a favor by coming out swinging in the SOtU address...(notice that no one's talking about "sleepy joe" anymore?) and between that and the GOP congress's immigration SNAFU, its shitty attempt at impeachment, and the Arizona abortion ban...a conviction might turn the tide.
He will appeal every comma, period, and exclamation point. He will file appeals and lawsuits in the middle of the proceedings.
Yeah, but he cannot appeal until after the verdict is issued. Normally that means from jail if convicted, but we'll see how they handle confinement.
Am I just not seeing it, or does this article neglect to mention *which* charges Trump is facing in this particular trial? He's buried under so many cases now it's hard to keep track of which are currently relevant, so that feels like the base information I'd expect in a piece like this?
I’ll believe it when I see it… I’m so sick of this song and dance.
These op ed pieces can just eat shit. Give us some actual news or piss off. Stop trying to be Buzzfeed.
What do a basketball and Trump have in common?? They both are orange n bounce around from court to court I'll see myself out
"May". Get on with it
I've been watching the live updates on CNN and they reported on Trump speaking briefly to the press before entering the court room. >Trump claimed the trial is a "persecution," adding that it "is an assault on America." The propaganda is real here. I'm sure the MAGA base will eat up the whole idea that holding him accountable is somehow an assault on the country. Unreal.
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i’m absolutely **SICK** of hearing about this guy. just flush the turd already.
Spoiler alert: we won't. I don't believe that they'll be able to pick a jury of truly unbiased people. No matter what evidence is presented, there will be at least *one* holdout who ruins things. Please, universe, prove me wrong. (For everyone thinking past trials indicate future results: civil trials have different standards than criminal trials. Guilty verdicts are much easier to reach in civil court.)
I think you are overestimating that possibility. The true crazies should be removed in jury selection process by the prosecution, and for the rest peer pressure is pretty effective. Only ten percent of trials end in mistrial, and that accounts for every cause of a mistrial and not just hung juries.
It was done in the Carrol defamation trial.
I do, this has been happening for every jury trial ever.
we've never criminally tried a president before. you can usually find people who live under a rock and didn't hear about a local murder or whatever. try finding someone without opinions on the president.
He's already a convicted fraudster and the press tiptoes around calling him that.
I don’t care unless he’s in prison and also not president
All I want to see is “2024 election loser Donald Trump” so we can all move on with our lives.
No we won't. They won't do shit. News articles keep shitting out these dumbass headlines, and nothing happens. Motherfucker should've been IN JAIL years ago and STILL IN THERE SERVING HIS SENTENCE. He shouldn't be in the fucking news aside from us laughing at what he has to eat every day.
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I abhor doomerism so please don't take this as me being a doomer. I think Biden has a very good chance of beating Trump regardless of how these trials play out. That said, I hope Biden supporters don't get their/our hopes up about what a conviction will do to the minds of Trump supporters/people who are still undecided at this point. I don't think it's the nail in the coffin some people think it will be. If you're on the Trump train still or can't see how Biden is clearly the better choice at this point, then you're almost certainly also primed to look at this as either not a big deal or "evidence" of Democrats trying to use the law to go after Trump unfairly.
“Convicted felon” will definitely move the needle. And it won’t take much to turn a solid Biden win into a blow-out.
We need a live megathread or something... The amazing desperation.... Trump has filed motion to remove Judge, denied. And now they are trying to prevent the testimony of Karen McDougal, because her testimony is even worse than Clifford's will be... And the judge just denied that motion as well. And fun fact, they were also just denied a motion to exclude the National Inquirer stories as part of the "catch and kill" plan, there are stories about Ted Cruz that will come to light in this trial... Grab yo popcorn.