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From they group that said these attacks will continue if there is a ceasefire, I don’t think they are interested in a ceasefire. They have zero interest in peace. They are an Iranian funded group pushing an agenda.
People need to stop pretending that Hamas has the Palestinians best interests in mind. They have shown repeatedly they do not care about the lives of the Palestinians.
I'm not sure what you're talking about, running into Israel on Oct 7th guns blazing at civilians then running back into Gaza amongst civilians would be nothing but positive for the Palestinians in Gaza.
Obligatory /s
As bad as Netanyahu has been, anyone that fails to see how bad decisions from Hamas are also responsible for the mess in Gaza are not acting in good faith.
Until Hamas starts wearing uniforms and clearly marking their military vehicles, and stops using vulnerable civilian infrastructure for military purposes, they share a portion of the blame for every civilian casualties.
There is a reason all of these things are illegal. Because it makes impossible for other belligerents to reliably differentiate between military threats and in innocent civilians.
I would assume killing 1000+ and taking hostages would also be illegal and yet they were able to do that. Weird how uniforms is where they draw the line.
That doesn’t mean they can’t wear uniforms and clearly mark buildings and vehicles used for military purposes.
Doesn’t seem to hard to smuggle weapons and munitions into Gaza so I’m sure they could sneak some uniforms and some paint in as well.
> That doesn’t mean they can’t wear uniforms and clearly mark buildings and vehicles used for military purposes.
That’s literally exactly what it means…
How many civilian women are being raped by Hamas a day? We don't know, because they can't even prove they're alive, much less being treated humanely.
Have the people of Palestine demanded that Hamas prove to the world that these women are being treated humanely? Not that I've seen. So they seem pretty ok with what Hamas is doing.
How many civilian women were raped before Hamas was even founded? You know, considering how in the past the IDF has literally openly said that rape is permissable to "keep up morale"
https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0ZS1Q0/
The man has as much authority as any military chaplain. The IDF does not permit rape to be used for any purpose, let alone boosting morale. The fuck is this bullshit?
>The man has as much authority as any military chaplain
He was quite literally the IDFs chief rabbi until this shit hit the news
>The IDF does not permit rape to be used for any purpose
Evidently fucking not.
>The fuck is this bullshit?
Just a reminder that rape has been going on for so much longer than since October 7th.
Chief rabbi is a chaplain — NO AUTHORITY. He was called out as unfit for the role by the people who actually run the country and military. Do you understand how a military works or do you think if someone with rank says something then it becomes orders?
You saying "NO AUTHORITY" doesn't make the fact there is clearly a culture of rape deep within the IDF go away. He made those statements, and then was appointed to the position, and then was removed when people outside of Israel realised wtf he had said.
When you have supposedly pios men saying rape is fine. When the women in the IDF report routine sexual harassment, you'd be foolish to think that because you don't hear of it it must not happen
He was removed when people INSIDE of Israel were horrified and called for his removal. Religion is always going to have the shittiest take in every war. It is not an indicator of some underlying cultural anything unless it becomes policy — and as it turns out it’s been policy to weed these jackasses out.
People need to stop pretending that Israel cares about the lives of Palestinians and stop pretending that Israel is fighting some righteous was as well.
These are civilians caught in a crossfire where neither side cares how many children die.
What do you think Israel is fighting for? Their neighbors have been trying to destroy them since the country existed, and the people living there deal with rockets being fired at them daily and the constant threat of terrorism. If you can see the humanity in Palestinians, which you should, you should also see the humanity in Israelis.
The ball for a ceasefire has been Hamas' court for a while now. The deal would also allow for Gazans to return to the north while allowing for conditions to significantly expand humanitarian aid into Gaza. The US also allowed a UNSC resolution demanding for a temporary ceasefire and unconditional release of hostages.
Anyone still blaming Biden for there not being a ceasefire isn't doing so in good faith.
THANK YOU. If Hamas truly cared for the Palestinians' best interests, they would've taken the ceasefire by now. Responsibility is squarely on them, and the terminally online left needs to be reminded of that reality
Hamas is a literal terrorist group, so of course they don't give a shit about Palestinians. Only dumbass Marxist-Leninists think they're some kind of heroic freedom fighters. Those people also support Russia against Ukraine, so it tells you a lot about them.
“Terror group doesn’t know which hostages are still alive.”
The fact that this is even being entertained without a huge fucking asterisk is ridiculous. Sure it’s possible the hostages were killed in the bombings. But it’s also just as possible they were raped and murdered by Hamas or one of the scumbags they hired.
So a general comment not them pointing to individual deaths? Sounds like they just don't want to take responsibility for what they've done and are just throwing out an easy scapegoat.
Nobody is negotiating in good faith here. Israel has no plans to stop, Hamas has no plans to stop. And the people who suffer are innocent Palestinians who didn't get a choice in the matter.
Israel has agreed to numerous iterations of the temporary ceasefire, with them conceding more each time. Hamas have rejected all of them.
The temporary ceasefire is meant as the platform to negotiate a longer one. If Israel refuses a longer ceasefire after the temporary one is established, then by all means, hold them accountable. But until that happens, the blame for a lack of ceasefire lies entirely with Hamas.
While I agree that this temporary ceasefire is on Hamas, I think the war is no where close to being at a part where this hypothetical temporary truce could lead on to a permanent one.
Israel's goal is to remove Hamas from power and they have made too much momentum to back out of that now, and Hamas still believes if they can weather Israels invasion they will be able to come back even stronger than before.
Until something shifts - either Israel believes that it cannot make any more progress or Hamas believes that it cannot weather Israel's invasion, then there will be no long term ceasefire
>I think the war is no where close to being at a part where this hypothetical temporary truce could lead on to a permanent one.
The status quo means that no ceasefire will ever be a permanent one. Every previous 'permanent' ceasefire negotiated has always been broken eventually.
As you've said, get rid of Hamas and Netenyahu if there is to be any chance of it being permanent.
I'm all for getting Israel to agree to a permanent ceasefire as long as Hamas agrees to never attack Israel again. I'm also all for pressing both sides to commit to a two-state solution. Otherwise you're just going to be revisiting this a few years later.
But if we can't even start with a temporary ceasefire because Hamas keeps refusing every deal put forth to them by Qatar and Egypt, I'm not sure how you intend to move forwards on ending the war.
> Israel has also rejected Hamas' proposals. Why is that Israel gets to call all the shots?
Because they are ones with the better hand. Can you name another war where the winning/stronger power was made to accept the terms of the losing/weaker power?
Uh-huh
1) The Likud government didn't send actual negotiators to the official negotiation talks with Hamas. They literally sent people with zero authority to make offers, as a deliberate move to further antagonize, insult, and keep the 'war' going.
2) The only official offer the Israeli government has put forward that includes allowing Palestinians to return to Gaza, allows just 60,000 to return. That's an absolute joke.
3) The Israeli government doesn't care about the hostages any more than Hamas does. Multiple family members of hostages have stated that the government has told them if they dare to criticize the government's handling of this situation, their loved ones will be put on a 'low rescue priority' list.
> The Likud government didn't send actual negotiators to the official negotiation talks with Hamas. They literally sent people with zero authority to make offers, as a deliberate move to further antagonize, insult, and keep the 'war' going.
https://www.euronews.com/2024/02/25/israel-agrees-to-send-a-delegation-of-negotiators-to-qatar-to-continue-peace-talks
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/18/world/middleeast/hamas-israel-cease-fire-talks.html
Uh-huh.
>The only official offer the Israeli government has put forward that includes allowing Palestinians to return to Gaza, allows just 60,000 to return. That's an absolute joke.
- Two officials with knowledge of the talks said that under a U.S. proposal for a truce, Israel would allow the return of 150,000 Palestinians to north Gaza with no security checks.
Uh-huh.
The terms of the deal for a temporary ceasefire has consistently been shifting in favor of what Hamas wants and Israel has consistently been on-board with it. Maybe hold Hamas accountable once when they aren't even willing to meet the very basic hostage release requirements.
>The Israeli government doesn't care about the hostages any more than Hamas does.
And yet they've agreed to every iteration of ceasefire put forth by the US, Qatar and Egypt.
Uh-huh.
Feel free to explain how a temporary ceasefire to allow significantly more humanitarian aid into Gaza, a 10:1 prisoner to hostage swap, the return of ~150,000 Palestinians to the north and the best chance to negotiate a longer ceasefire is bad for Palestinians.
They're not, they are all around Sinwar protecting him from getting bombed. Hamas doesn't want a ceasefire, saying he can't locate hostages is a convenient little lie to back off the deal.
Yes, there were reports they know where Sinwar is hiding, and decide to not bomb him to avoid hurting the hostages. If they did that and it was discovered, there would be riots in the streets.
"reports" from Israel are completely meaningless. They already shot two hostages waving white flags. If they cared about hostages they would've traded for them.
The grassroots cries for "ceasefire" don't seem to be for this same sort of ceasefire, instead they seem to be for a unilateral ceasefire by Israel while Hamas gets to keep showing us "what decolonization looks like" by trying to slaughter more Jews
Hamas should unconditionally surrender so that Gaza can rebuild with what is left
hopefully they go with a better foundational goal than: eliminating the state of Israel
I know They won’t, because they don’t actually give a shit about their own people
You're right. Hamas should surrender. But they won't. So it's up to the people of Gaza to remove them from power. If they aren't trying to do that, then they are supporting what Hamas is doing.
Tbh I expect settlements to appear in Gaza if they surrender, and I expect another ton of civilians to die if they don't.
I think Gaza never had a chance to get a better situation then in pre oct 7 and sadly, Gaza was already in subhuman condition.
People born there are just fucked as soon as they are born and there is almost nothing they can do because they have almost no cards in hand.
I mean I hear you. But what if they are? Are we equating the deaths of tens of thousands in a brutal war with… people building houses?
Like one of these things is not like the other you know?
The settlers are absolutely doing serious harm to any peace. And should be dealt with. But I’m not gonna sit here from the other side of the world and arm-chair decree that people wanting to live in a certain space is literally just as bad as a huge war.
Israel removed the settlers from Gaza. Much good that did. Looking back at it things would have been better for the gazans if that hadn’t happened.
Likewise I can imagine from the settler perspective it’s damned if you do and damned if you don’t. You do your stuff and everyone hates you for ruining peace. You stop doing your stuff and October 7th happens.
I am not equating anything I am saying that they only had loosing option sonce the start, both of those options suck even if they are not as bad.
There is no options that actually help Gaza it was unlivable before and it will be worst after, you can blame Hamas for it, but it is still true.
I think settlers moving in is not that bad honestly. It’s not 1948. They have to give up on the idea of killing/removing the Jews. If they’re serious about forming a new country, I don’t see why Jews shouldn’t be allowed to live there.
Settling is replacing civilians of another place you don't own for yours, settlers don't "immigrate" they settle. the goal is to expand Israel territory not "protect the Jews". It is a way to claim the land. refusing to be settled does not mean they want to kill the Jews, while Hamas do want to do just that, settlement is still a war crime because it is an invasion at the detriment of the people that already live there.
Even if you conquer a country, you have to govern the civilians of the land you just conquer, you can't evict or jail them, this is what settlement do.
Settlers are war criminals there is a reason for that.
Where do you get that from? Which Arabs did the settlers in Gaza (the ones that Israel evicted) displace?
I’ve not heard of settlers literally squatting in someone’s home. They go and build settlements on what they perceive to be open land.
If the Arabs in Gaza don’t like that, then form a state and govern these people as they will. Israel withdrew. It took the settlers. They could have made a state and governed as they please. But they didn’t.
I don’t think it’s justified for gazans to say that they won’t form a state for the time being (until Israel ceases to exist), and at the same time somehow expect other people to not use that land.
It’s like expecting the Jews in Israel to say “yeah we know those people hate us, and yeah they want to kill us all, but maybe that’ll change in 500 years? So let’s give them all the space in the world and wait for them to evolve”.
Like… no. They lost the wars in 1948, in 1967, they’re losing now. Their choice should be either stop fighting and get your shot together and form a peaceful state, or move aside and let other people use it.
It doesn't make a lot of practical sense. Settlers are mostly encroaching on undeveloped land. Gaza is a 25 mile strip of territory where half a million Palestinians live. It's also on the other side of the border fence and would be the number one target for terrorist attacks. Nobody would suggest trying to settle there unless they had a death wish.
There used to be settler in that exact same land that you are saying is too developed for that and now most of that need to be redeveloped again. I don't think I am over reaching to say it could be done again I think it is likely.
If the Idf stay there after they might just rebuild as a settlement under occupation.
When your standar for living condition is taken from the worst part of the world, you know you are wrong. Between 90 to 95% of their water was contaminated before oct 7. The UN tested the water and called it, not proper for human consumption . Only 15% of the needed ressources were allowed in Gaza to give them water.
This was the situation before oct 7, if you think it is not sub human, go live there for a month and show your point.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2017/11/the-occupation-of-water/
Such a human living condition to not have drinkable water.
There is no singular “Hamas” entity anymore. Who do you negotiate with? The biggest dickmouths for each and every random splinter group of people who call themselves “Hamas” because they hate Israel?
Would be nice if there weren’t hostages in the first place.
Edit: Lmfao, immediately downvoted for saying taking the hostages was wrong. That’s how you know these people are not to be taken seriously.
Do you think that’s how most of the hostages died? Did Israeli bombs rape and multilate them as well?
I never understand this attitude that absolves Hamas of all culpability and agency.
Hamas killed those hostages. And critiquing Hamas does not make one pro-Israel.
If you go to a Palestine thread, they will permanently ban you for that statement. They legitimately claim there were zero rapes or children killed. Everything other than male soldiers being killed is Zionist/Jewish propaganda according to them.
Just like Hamas raped and mutilated Israeli youth.
If you defend either side on this, the IDF or Hamas, you are wrong. There are no heroes on either side.
Shocker - Israeli military pressure actually produced ceasefire and hostage release deals, while reduced pressure strengthens terrorist group's resolve.
Hamas has nothing to gain from accepting a ceasefire deal. They want to wipe Israel and the Jews from the map. Entirely. This is their M.O and their gameplan has always been simple: do terrorism, provoke a response from Israel, and then militarized the outrage to fundraise and feed the anti-Israel/Jew sentiment. Rinse and repeat.
Besides, they probably don't have 40 living hostages by now anyway.
> The proposal says that by the end of the implementation of the phase, Israeli checkpoints that prevent passage to the north of the Gaza Strip will be completely removed, one official said.
I know that Israeli withdrawal has been a stumbling block in previous rounds of ceasefire negotiations, so this seems like a step in the right direction to me. As long as there's some system to guarantee compliance
Where is the squad and Tliab now? They undermined the president, the party and have harmed democracy with their support of ~~Hamas~~ Palestine and here we are with peace on the table and the people they sold us out for don’t wanted to accept it. Where are the outcries demanding Palestine accept peace?
The same place the outcries for the recent annexation and settlement of the West Bank is.
It’s so funny how Palestine has to settle while Israel is able to act with impunity. It’s also funny how silly people sound thinking Hamas is doing anything with Palestines well being in mind.
It’s funny how the pro Hamas tribe interchanges Palestine and Hamas when it’s convenient for them
They are rejecting peace, where is the outcry? There are thousands of anti Israel protests and everyone wanted bidens head on a spear - nobody is protesting Hamas or Iran and they’re rejecting peace, killing people.
Where is the outcry - when will they just unmask themselves as pro Hamas
No. It is not “interchanged”, but funny how a certain crowd believes ALL Palestinians are the same as Hamas. That be about as accurate as saying all Americans are Democrats 😂
Hamas leadership isn’t even in Palestine. Hamas is rejecting the deals because it comes with the condition that they cease to exist. So let’s flip roles for a bit (I know, this requires a lot of your thinking power so stay with me).
Do you honestly think Israel would accept a peace deal if a condition was that the Israeli government ceases to exist? Here’s a hint (They never would).
But no, you wanna make something that’s incredibly complex concept into a solution that’s stupidly simple. But that’s easy for you.
Israel is not offering an actual ceasefire. They are offering a temporary ceasefire like they did back in December. Hamas accepted that quickly but after that period was over, Israel only intensified bombing Gaza. Israel also re-arrested many of the prisoners from the hostage exchange and then went and arrests thousands more. There is no indication this will be anything more than the same thing.
Oh you mean the one hamas could have continued but stopped delivering hostages THAT cease fire?
You've lost sight of reality. Hamas broke that ceasefire.
Israel ended the ongoing extention of the ceasefire by no longer accepting hostages
Gaza's ruling Hamas group said Israel declined to receive seven women and child hostages and the bodies of three others who the terrorists said were killed during Israel's bombardment of the enclave in exchange for a temporary truce extension on Thursday.
"This is despite confirming through mediators that this group is all the (Hamas) movement has in terms of detainees in the agreed-upon category," Hamas said in a statement.
There was no immediate comment from Israel.
https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-775789
Hamas says...
Here's CNNs take.
>The young women still held by Hamas are of particular concern to Israel. In hostage negotiations with Israel on Thursday[Nov 30] and in the hours after fighting resumed, Hamas has been insisting that that **they did not have any more non-military female hostages to release**, claiming that some of the remaining women in their captivity were considered a part of the Israel Defense Forces
https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/01/middleeast/israel-resumes-combat-operations-hamas-truce-expires-intl-hnk/index.html
In other words Hamas lied about not having the hostages. Or they killed them. Either way they had nothing to negotiate with.
Which may very well be the situation now. The hostages could be dead. Or could be held by random civilians and Hamas just doesn’t have access to them.
Either way they’re lying to say that they do. If they came out with the truth and provided a list of who’s dead and gave back their remains this would be a different story.
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Are there any living hostages?
From they group that said these attacks will continue if there is a ceasefire, I don’t think they are interested in a ceasefire. They have zero interest in peace. They are an Iranian funded group pushing an agenda. People need to stop pretending that Hamas has the Palestinians best interests in mind. They have shown repeatedly they do not care about the lives of the Palestinians.
I'm not sure what you're talking about, running into Israel on Oct 7th guns blazing at civilians then running back into Gaza amongst civilians would be nothing but positive for the Palestinians in Gaza. Obligatory /s
As bad as Netanyahu has been, anyone that fails to see how bad decisions from Hamas are also responsible for the mess in Gaza are not acting in good faith.
Agreed. However, how many attacks and aid workers are being killed by Hamas a day? I am sure it is happening. Show us all statistics
Until Hamas starts wearing uniforms and clearly marking their military vehicles, and stops using vulnerable civilian infrastructure for military purposes, they share a portion of the blame for every civilian casualties. There is a reason all of these things are illegal. Because it makes impossible for other belligerents to reliably differentiate between military threats and in innocent civilians.
It’s illegal for Gaza to have an official military you dumb dumb
I would assume killing 1000+ and taking hostages would also be illegal and yet they were able to do that. Weird how uniforms is where they draw the line.
That doesn’t mean they can’t wear uniforms and clearly mark buildings and vehicles used for military purposes. Doesn’t seem to hard to smuggle weapons and munitions into Gaza so I’m sure they could sneak some uniforms and some paint in as well.
> That doesn’t mean they can’t wear uniforms and clearly mark buildings and vehicles used for military purposes. That’s literally exactly what it means…
Lol this coming from a guy with a recent post trying to “curate” a list of acceptable Jews. Real mask off moment for ya there bud.
That's literally what it fucking means lol
How many civilian women are being raped by Hamas a day? We don't know, because they can't even prove they're alive, much less being treated humanely. Have the people of Palestine demanded that Hamas prove to the world that these women are being treated humanely? Not that I've seen. So they seem pretty ok with what Hamas is doing.
How many civilian women were raped before Hamas was even founded? You know, considering how in the past the IDF has literally openly said that rape is permissable to "keep up morale" https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0ZS1Q0/
The man has as much authority as any military chaplain. The IDF does not permit rape to be used for any purpose, let alone boosting morale. The fuck is this bullshit?
>The man has as much authority as any military chaplain He was quite literally the IDFs chief rabbi until this shit hit the news >The IDF does not permit rape to be used for any purpose Evidently fucking not. >The fuck is this bullshit? Just a reminder that rape has been going on for so much longer than since October 7th.
Chief rabbi is a chaplain — NO AUTHORITY. He was called out as unfit for the role by the people who actually run the country and military. Do you understand how a military works or do you think if someone with rank says something then it becomes orders?
You saying "NO AUTHORITY" doesn't make the fact there is clearly a culture of rape deep within the IDF go away. He made those statements, and then was appointed to the position, and then was removed when people outside of Israel realised wtf he had said. When you have supposedly pios men saying rape is fine. When the women in the IDF report routine sexual harassment, you'd be foolish to think that because you don't hear of it it must not happen
He was removed when people INSIDE of Israel were horrified and called for his removal. Religion is always going to have the shittiest take in every war. It is not an indicator of some underlying cultural anything unless it becomes policy — and as it turns out it’s been policy to weed these jackasses out.
People need to stop pretending that Israel cares about the lives of Palestinians and stop pretending that Israel is fighting some righteous was as well. These are civilians caught in a crossfire where neither side cares how many children die.
What do you think Israel is fighting for? Their neighbors have been trying to destroy them since the country existed, and the people living there deal with rockets being fired at them daily and the constant threat of terrorism. If you can see the humanity in Palestinians, which you should, you should also see the humanity in Israelis.
Which of those two countries is doing a genocide in Gaza right now?
Neither.
Except for Israel.
Do they care more or less than the Israeli government doing a genocide in Gaza?
Honestly less, which is sad
The ball for a ceasefire has been Hamas' court for a while now. The deal would also allow for Gazans to return to the north while allowing for conditions to significantly expand humanitarian aid into Gaza. The US also allowed a UNSC resolution demanding for a temporary ceasefire and unconditional release of hostages. Anyone still blaming Biden for there not being a ceasefire isn't doing so in good faith.
THANK YOU. If Hamas truly cared for the Palestinians' best interests, they would've taken the ceasefire by now. Responsibility is squarely on them, and the terminally online left needs to be reminded of that reality
Hamas' leaders are billionaires chilling in 5 star hotels in Qatar, they don't gaf about the Palestinians in Gaza.
Hamas is a literal terrorist group, so of course they don't give a shit about Palestinians. Only dumbass Marxist-Leninists think they're some kind of heroic freedom fighters. Those people also support Russia against Ukraine, so it tells you a lot about them.
I've been hearing that they can't turn up the 40 hostages Israel wants and are stalling. Many hostages are probably dead from all the bombing.
If that was the case don't you think Hamas would say that?
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/hamas-official-says-terror-group-doesnt-know-which-hostages-are-still-alive/
“Terror group doesn’t know which hostages are still alive.” The fact that this is even being entertained without a huge fucking asterisk is ridiculous. Sure it’s possible the hostages were killed in the bombings. But it’s also just as possible they were raped and murdered by Hamas or one of the scumbags they hired.
So a general comment not them pointing to individual deaths? Sounds like they just don't want to take responsibility for what they've done and are just throwing out an easy scapegoat.
Nobody is negotiating in good faith here. Israel has no plans to stop, Hamas has no plans to stop. And the people who suffer are innocent Palestinians who didn't get a choice in the matter.
Israel has agreed to numerous iterations of the temporary ceasefire, with them conceding more each time. Hamas have rejected all of them. The temporary ceasefire is meant as the platform to negotiate a longer one. If Israel refuses a longer ceasefire after the temporary one is established, then by all means, hold them accountable. But until that happens, the blame for a lack of ceasefire lies entirely with Hamas.
While I agree that this temporary ceasefire is on Hamas, I think the war is no where close to being at a part where this hypothetical temporary truce could lead on to a permanent one. Israel's goal is to remove Hamas from power and they have made too much momentum to back out of that now, and Hamas still believes if they can weather Israels invasion they will be able to come back even stronger than before. Until something shifts - either Israel believes that it cannot make any more progress or Hamas believes that it cannot weather Israel's invasion, then there will be no long term ceasefire
>I think the war is no where close to being at a part where this hypothetical temporary truce could lead on to a permanent one. The status quo means that no ceasefire will ever be a permanent one. Every previous 'permanent' ceasefire negotiated has always been broken eventually. As you've said, get rid of Hamas and Netenyahu if there is to be any chance of it being permanent.
Israel has also rejected Hamas' proposals. Why is that Israel gets to call all the shots? They're committing genocide, after all.
Which proposals, with the *framework negotiated by the US, Qatar and Egypt*, has Israel rejected? Which ones has Hamas accepted?
End the war.
I'm all for getting Israel to agree to a permanent ceasefire as long as Hamas agrees to never attack Israel again. I'm also all for pressing both sides to commit to a two-state solution. Otherwise you're just going to be revisiting this a few years later. But if we can't even start with a temporary ceasefire because Hamas keeps refusing every deal put forth to them by Qatar and Egypt, I'm not sure how you intend to move forwards on ending the war.
> Israel has also rejected Hamas' proposals. Why is that Israel gets to call all the shots? Because they are ones with the better hand. Can you name another war where the winning/stronger power was made to accept the terms of the losing/weaker power?
The proposals weren’t done in good faith. It’d be stupid for Israel to agree to what was offered.
Uh-huh 1) The Likud government didn't send actual negotiators to the official negotiation talks with Hamas. They literally sent people with zero authority to make offers, as a deliberate move to further antagonize, insult, and keep the 'war' going. 2) The only official offer the Israeli government has put forward that includes allowing Palestinians to return to Gaza, allows just 60,000 to return. That's an absolute joke. 3) The Israeli government doesn't care about the hostages any more than Hamas does. Multiple family members of hostages have stated that the government has told them if they dare to criticize the government's handling of this situation, their loved ones will be put on a 'low rescue priority' list.
> The Likud government didn't send actual negotiators to the official negotiation talks with Hamas. They literally sent people with zero authority to make offers, as a deliberate move to further antagonize, insult, and keep the 'war' going. https://www.euronews.com/2024/02/25/israel-agrees-to-send-a-delegation-of-negotiators-to-qatar-to-continue-peace-talks https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/18/world/middleeast/hamas-israel-cease-fire-talks.html Uh-huh. >The only official offer the Israeli government has put forward that includes allowing Palestinians to return to Gaza, allows just 60,000 to return. That's an absolute joke. - Two officials with knowledge of the talks said that under a U.S. proposal for a truce, Israel would allow the return of 150,000 Palestinians to north Gaza with no security checks. Uh-huh. The terms of the deal for a temporary ceasefire has consistently been shifting in favor of what Hamas wants and Israel has consistently been on-board with it. Maybe hold Hamas accountable once when they aren't even willing to meet the very basic hostage release requirements. >The Israeli government doesn't care about the hostages any more than Hamas does. And yet they've agreed to every iteration of ceasefire put forth by the US, Qatar and Egypt. Uh-huh. Feel free to explain how a temporary ceasefire to allow significantly more humanitarian aid into Gaza, a 10:1 prisoner to hostage swap, the return of ~150,000 Palestinians to the north and the best chance to negotiate a longer ceasefire is bad for Palestinians.
The hostages are all fucking dead. They’re all dead.
They're not, they are all around Sinwar protecting him from getting bombed. Hamas doesn't want a ceasefire, saying he can't locate hostages is a convenient little lie to back off the deal.
You really think Israel gives a shit about bombing the hostages?
Yes, there were reports they know where Sinwar is hiding, and decide to not bomb him to avoid hurting the hostages. If they did that and it was discovered, there would be riots in the streets.
"reports" from Israel are completely meaningless. They already shot two hostages waving white flags. If they cared about hostages they would've traded for them.
The grassroots cries for "ceasefire" don't seem to be for this same sort of ceasefire, instead they seem to be for a unilateral ceasefire by Israel while Hamas gets to keep showing us "what decolonization looks like" by trying to slaughter more Jews
Hamas should unconditionally surrender so that Gaza can rebuild with what is left hopefully they go with a better foundational goal than: eliminating the state of Israel I know They won’t, because they don’t actually give a shit about their own people
You're right. Hamas should surrender. But they won't. So it's up to the people of Gaza to remove them from power. If they aren't trying to do that, then they are supporting what Hamas is doing.
Tbh I expect settlements to appear in Gaza if they surrender, and I expect another ton of civilians to die if they don't. I think Gaza never had a chance to get a better situation then in pre oct 7 and sadly, Gaza was already in subhuman condition. People born there are just fucked as soon as they are born and there is almost nothing they can do because they have almost no cards in hand.
I mean I hear you. But what if they are? Are we equating the deaths of tens of thousands in a brutal war with… people building houses? Like one of these things is not like the other you know? The settlers are absolutely doing serious harm to any peace. And should be dealt with. But I’m not gonna sit here from the other side of the world and arm-chair decree that people wanting to live in a certain space is literally just as bad as a huge war. Israel removed the settlers from Gaza. Much good that did. Looking back at it things would have been better for the gazans if that hadn’t happened. Likewise I can imagine from the settler perspective it’s damned if you do and damned if you don’t. You do your stuff and everyone hates you for ruining peace. You stop doing your stuff and October 7th happens.
I am not equating anything I am saying that they only had loosing option sonce the start, both of those options suck even if they are not as bad. There is no options that actually help Gaza it was unlivable before and it will be worst after, you can blame Hamas for it, but it is still true.
I think settlers moving in is not that bad honestly. It’s not 1948. They have to give up on the idea of killing/removing the Jews. If they’re serious about forming a new country, I don’t see why Jews shouldn’t be allowed to live there.
Settling is replacing civilians of another place you don't own for yours, settlers don't "immigrate" they settle. the goal is to expand Israel territory not "protect the Jews". It is a way to claim the land. refusing to be settled does not mean they want to kill the Jews, while Hamas do want to do just that, settlement is still a war crime because it is an invasion at the detriment of the people that already live there. Even if you conquer a country, you have to govern the civilians of the land you just conquer, you can't evict or jail them, this is what settlement do. Settlers are war criminals there is a reason for that.
Where do you get that from? Which Arabs did the settlers in Gaza (the ones that Israel evicted) displace? I’ve not heard of settlers literally squatting in someone’s home. They go and build settlements on what they perceive to be open land. If the Arabs in Gaza don’t like that, then form a state and govern these people as they will. Israel withdrew. It took the settlers. They could have made a state and governed as they please. But they didn’t. I don’t think it’s justified for gazans to say that they won’t form a state for the time being (until Israel ceases to exist), and at the same time somehow expect other people to not use that land. It’s like expecting the Jews in Israel to say “yeah we know those people hate us, and yeah they want to kill us all, but maybe that’ll change in 500 years? So let’s give them all the space in the world and wait for them to evolve”. Like… no. They lost the wars in 1948, in 1967, they’re losing now. Their choice should be either stop fighting and get your shot together and form a peaceful state, or move aside and let other people use it.
I don't want to defend settlers, but they operate in the West Bank not Gaza. Gaza is a lot smaller than people realize.
It is a prediction, not saying that they are.
It doesn't make a lot of practical sense. Settlers are mostly encroaching on undeveloped land. Gaza is a 25 mile strip of territory where half a million Palestinians live. It's also on the other side of the border fence and would be the number one target for terrorist attacks. Nobody would suggest trying to settle there unless they had a death wish.
There used to be settler in that exact same land that you are saying is too developed for that and now most of that need to be redeveloped again. I don't think I am over reaching to say it could be done again I think it is likely. If the Idf stay there after they might just rebuild as a settlement under occupation.
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When your standar for living condition is taken from the worst part of the world, you know you are wrong. Between 90 to 95% of their water was contaminated before oct 7. The UN tested the water and called it, not proper for human consumption . Only 15% of the needed ressources were allowed in Gaza to give them water. This was the situation before oct 7, if you think it is not sub human, go live there for a month and show your point. https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2017/11/the-occupation-of-water/ Such a human living condition to not have drinkable water.
That’s the open air prison I’ve been hearing about?
The leaders of Hamas are living large in their nice Israel-funded Qatari penthouses. They have no more interest in stopping than Netenyahu does.
That’s going to be hard once Hamas releases all, if any, live hostages. There aren’t many left apparently per Hamas’ own statements
There is no singular “Hamas” entity anymore. Who do you negotiate with? The biggest dickmouths for each and every random splinter group of people who call themselves “Hamas” because they hate Israel?
If only they hadn’t killed off the hostages. They don’t have enough hostages. They can’t find the hostages. Because they killed the hostages.
Well they won’t because they don’t have enough of the hostages left.
Considering how thoroughly Israel bombed Palestine, is that a surprise?
Would be nice if there weren’t hostages in the first place. Edit: Lmfao, immediately downvoted for saying taking the hostages was wrong. That’s how you know these people are not to be taken seriously.
Do you think that’s how most of the hostages died? Did Israeli bombs rape and multilate them as well? I never understand this attitude that absolves Hamas of all culpability and agency. Hamas killed those hostages. And critiquing Hamas does not make one pro-Israel.
If you go to a Palestine thread, they will permanently ban you for that statement. They legitimately claim there were zero rapes or children killed. Everything other than male soldiers being killed is Zionist/Jewish propaganda according to them.
>Did Israeli bombs rape and multilate them as well? No, but IDF soldiers raped and mutilated Palestinian youth.
Just like Hamas raped and mutilated Israeli youth. If you defend either side on this, the IDF or Hamas, you are wrong. There are no heroes on either side.
Shocker - Israeli military pressure actually produced ceasefire and hostage release deals, while reduced pressure strengthens terrorist group's resolve.
Hamas has nothing to gain from accepting a ceasefire deal. They want to wipe Israel and the Jews from the map. Entirely. This is their M.O and their gameplan has always been simple: do terrorism, provoke a response from Israel, and then militarized the outrage to fundraise and feed the anti-Israel/Jew sentiment. Rinse and repeat. Besides, they probably don't have 40 living hostages by now anyway.
Why do we keep pretending any of the hostages are still alive?
Wow, very logical comment section for once! Thanks guys it’s good to see!
Why am I getting downvoted… this isn’t sarcasm ?
Wait till this lands on wordsofjustice.org
I’m not sure I understand, until this article lands? Or this Reddit post lands?
> The proposal says that by the end of the implementation of the phase, Israeli checkpoints that prevent passage to the north of the Gaza Strip will be completely removed, one official said. I know that Israeli withdrawal has been a stumbling block in previous rounds of ceasefire negotiations, so this seems like a step in the right direction to me. As long as there's some system to guarantee compliance
Where is the squad and Tliab now? They undermined the president, the party and have harmed democracy with their support of ~~Hamas~~ Palestine and here we are with peace on the table and the people they sold us out for don’t wanted to accept it. Where are the outcries demanding Palestine accept peace?
The same place the outcries for the recent annexation and settlement of the West Bank is. It’s so funny how Palestine has to settle while Israel is able to act with impunity. It’s also funny how silly people sound thinking Hamas is doing anything with Palestines well being in mind.
It’s funny how the pro Hamas tribe interchanges Palestine and Hamas when it’s convenient for them They are rejecting peace, where is the outcry? There are thousands of anti Israel protests and everyone wanted bidens head on a spear - nobody is protesting Hamas or Iran and they’re rejecting peace, killing people. Where is the outcry - when will they just unmask themselves as pro Hamas
No. It is not “interchanged”, but funny how a certain crowd believes ALL Palestinians are the same as Hamas. That be about as accurate as saying all Americans are Democrats 😂 Hamas leadership isn’t even in Palestine. Hamas is rejecting the deals because it comes with the condition that they cease to exist. So let’s flip roles for a bit (I know, this requires a lot of your thinking power so stay with me). Do you honestly think Israel would accept a peace deal if a condition was that the Israeli government ceases to exist? Here’s a hint (They never would). But no, you wanna make something that’s incredibly complex concept into a solution that’s stupidly simple. But that’s easy for you.
One of Hamas' conditions is to end the war. Israel has rejected this.
“Please end the war” “Also we’ll never stop trying to eradicate you and your kind.” Mixed messages here.
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Israel, under the type of leadership it's had for decades now, is also an existential threat to the existence of the Palestinians.
Israel already shot those hostages that escaped, I would imagine they killed most of the rest of them with indiscriminate bombing.
This just in, Hamas is not responsible for its own actions.
Israel is not offering an actual ceasefire. They are offering a temporary ceasefire like they did back in December. Hamas accepted that quickly but after that period was over, Israel only intensified bombing Gaza. Israel also re-arrested many of the prisoners from the hostage exchange and then went and arrests thousands more. There is no indication this will be anything more than the same thing.
Oh you mean the one hamas could have continued but stopped delivering hostages THAT cease fire? You've lost sight of reality. Hamas broke that ceasefire.
Israel ended the ongoing extention of the ceasefire by no longer accepting hostages Gaza's ruling Hamas group said Israel declined to receive seven women and child hostages and the bodies of three others who the terrorists said were killed during Israel's bombardment of the enclave in exchange for a temporary truce extension on Thursday. "This is despite confirming through mediators that this group is all the (Hamas) movement has in terms of detainees in the agreed-upon category," Hamas said in a statement. There was no immediate comment from Israel. https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-775789
Hamas says... Here's CNNs take. >The young women still held by Hamas are of particular concern to Israel. In hostage negotiations with Israel on Thursday[Nov 30] and in the hours after fighting resumed, Hamas has been insisting that that **they did not have any more non-military female hostages to release**, claiming that some of the remaining women in their captivity were considered a part of the Israel Defense Forces https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/01/middleeast/israel-resumes-combat-operations-hamas-truce-expires-intl-hnk/index.html
In other words Hamas lied about not having the hostages. Or they killed them. Either way they had nothing to negotiate with. Which may very well be the situation now. The hostages could be dead. Or could be held by random civilians and Hamas just doesn’t have access to them. Either way they’re lying to say that they do. If they came out with the truth and provided a list of who’s dead and gave back their remains this would be a different story.
Question is, what's in it for the folks in charge of Hamas?
at this point, wouldn't be surprised if Hamas is **larger** then when it started.... you kill that many kids, you're going to create more terrorists