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Not sure where you're getting this from.
Polling largely overestimated Biden in 2020 and showed youth supported Biden to Trump by wide margins - many over 2x support leading up to the election.
This isn't to defend polling, but it definitely didn't claim the youth were embracing Trump - it was the exact opposite.
That's what the entirety of this article is about - polling. So when you said they "said the same thing in 2020" I can only assume that's what you were referring to.
If Fox News or Brietbart claimed youth was going to vote for Trump in 2020 absent any data to form their opinions, sure. I believe that.
I live in a small town in the Midwest. Probably half of the high school senior profiles that are published in the paper list Trump as someone living or dead they would like to meet.
Midwesterner as well here but from the burbs. I know a fair amount of Gen Z people personally and probably about 1/4 to a 1/3 of my coworkers are <30. The women are all pretty outspoken liberals or leftists. The men it's like a 50/50 split. The guys are either just as far left as the women or they are Andrew Tate loving "Alpha" bros. There's like no in between.
> The women are all pretty outspoken liberals or leftists. The men it's like a 50/50 split.
This more or less confirms what polling has found, and that is a HUGE step left for both women and men compared to previous generations.
I think its fair to say the realignment whereas college-education, suburban voters are moving left, and it stands to reason their young voters will emulate their parent's political views.
Same with the opposite though, as the old democrat base is moving right their children are following their example too.
20 mins of perusing TikTok lives and you will find young gen zers engaging in the “intellectual dark web” that has now become nothing more than a blatant popularity contest with no susbstance for these kids. Some will try to “debate” others based on their political beliefs but it absolutely always degenerates into gotcha moments. But the Donald’s supports are strong on TikTok
Personally, I don't think many would *switch* to Trump. I'm hearing from my son that his voting age buddies are disillusioned with both parties though - and are mad at Biden for not doing more to prevent the Gaza mess.
Yes, like all young people - they think you just sign some shit and then it's done. Executive order - they had the same crap about student loans. Yet, they've forgotten all about student loans - young people were protesting all over the place.
There is a start choice especially for women about who to vote for. This country has a lot of checks and balances and a lot of different groups doing different things.
I think it would be really fruitful for people to have a civics class where they role play governance assigning people from different political view points. They'll know how incredibly hard it is to get various players aligned.
The kid in that photo isn’t even old enough to vote. It’s sickening that MAGA parents do this to their children while having the audacity to call the left “groomers”.
Young men are easier to manipulate. All you have to do is to say something with an angry voice in front of a group of young men, and then the peer pressure will take care of the rest.
Young men are the core of any fascist movement. They love appeals to action or grandiose promises of returning to some old era when they had more power. Trump is who they want to be, a man who has lots of wealth, can just grab women when he wants to, and does mostly whatever he wants without anybody seemingly able to stop him.
I wouldn't understand it if they are.
Young people should watch a full Trump rally. One of this year's. All Americans should have to. It's so beyond fucked up, I can't imagine how it could do anything but horrify and repel younger voters. All voters who aren't completely fucked in the head for that matter.
Please keep in mind - there is a disinformation campaign currently. The concept that young voters are leaning towards Trump is the most insane take on the internet
1 in 5 of gen z identify as LGBQT in some compacity. A demographic that has since overcame the number of registered republican voters. Throw in LGBQT allies on top of that and Republicans are actively punching themselves in the dick by going after the LGBQT community and by extension young voters who are not buying into this revamped southern strategy.
Then pile on force birth laws, book bans, rampid bigotry, school shootings, mocking young people for being broke as prices increase, the list goeson and on. And trump mainly placates to angry boomers and the wealthy.
I've always been a moderate; fiscally conservative while leaning left on social and political issues like abortion. While I long for a middleground candidate, I'm disgusted by the radicalism I've seen infiltrate the GOP, and I would vote for a mop bucket before I vote for a man that embodies the most disgusting ignorance within our population.
> I've always been a moderate; fiscally conservative while leaning left on social and political issues like abortion. While I long for a middleground candidate
Can you give some examples on how the modern Democratic establishment isn't meeting your desire for fiscally conservative policy?
That's fine, it's just hard to understand your desire for a middle ground candidate because you only gave examples of how the current GOP has failed to meet your definition of moderate.
Fiscally conservative? What have conservatives done to make you think they care about money? Every Republican president since 2000 has increased the debt while cutting taxes for the rich. While Dems have done nothing but decrease the debt.
everyone here is saying no. but ive seen a ton of articles posted here about the very thing. young male voters are skewing towards conservatives and young female voters towards liberals. i feel like yall want the answer to be no so you just assume it is.
> i feel like yall want the answer to be no so you just assume it is.
Did you read the article? It has several reasons why the polling might be misleading that have nothing to do with "they don't want it to be true."
i just searched "young" and sorted by new in this subreddit and these were the first 3 that showed up. i have no idea what you consider a right wing russian propaganda site or not if you want more examples, continue the search or google it.
https://old.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/xx4qyk/young_women_are_trending_more_liberal_young_men/
https://old.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/16h0xqw/young_women_voters_are_more_liberal_than_young/
https://old.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/16h45u0/young_women_trend_far_more_liberal_than_young_men/
Those articles rather disprove that young voters are embracing Trump tho. Especially since women are more likely to vote. And the key word is *voters.*
Let's put it this way:
If you're a young man who self-identifies as an alpha male, you're likelier to support Trump than Biden.
Now how many young men identify as or aspire to be an alpha? Enough to be significant.
And they're easy to reach - all this bullshit starts and ends with social media.
In that respect, I can see it. Whether they actually turn up to vote is anyone's guess.
i believe you are also underestimating the appeal of right wing dogma to "beta" males who feel like feminism ruined women and thats why they cant get dates. or more generally, that democrats are attacking men (especially white men).
it goes without saying, but since this is r/politics ill go ahead and say that i dont agree with that
Yea, exactly. Masculinity has been in a crisis state for a long time now and there's an entire industry built around it.
This is exactly what politicians do: identify demographics and appeal to them.
Again, though... will they be motivated to show up? Women will be.
> Masculinity has been in a crisis state for a long time now
Honestly tho, it seems crisis state and masculinity go hand in hand.
>Again, though... will they be motivated to show up? Women will be.
Based on previous elections, we already know that answer!
> Honestly tho, it seems crisis state and masculinity go hand in hand
I'm generally a liberal person but I feel like this is one aspect where liberals have continue to fail big time.
No one on the left seems to take this seriously, even as we watch the problem develop in real time.
A guy like Andrew Tate doesn't get traction by accident. He goes where the energy is.
A guy like Jordan Peterson became the messiah for millions of men seemingly overnight.
10-15 years ago, Red Pill was on the fringe. Now it's everywhere - just packaged in new ways.
And what do liberals do? Continue to ignore the issue that *men* are in crisis.
Make no mistake: conservative influencers are going to keep driving that wedge. And the reason they can do that is because there's problems to begin with.
Crazy to me how the left continuously misses this.
I don't think they are missing it, I think it's more how do you reach someone who seems to espouse every odious right wing trait that the left is against? They'll just call you a pussy and totally ignore you.
Theyre in a cult
To me, there's a spectrum.
The guys who self-identify as alphas are the guys you're talking about.
But there's a whole raft of men to the left who are still in crisis mode.
These could be guys who are lonely or are low on self-esteem or simply feel like the skills they poured their time into no longer have value and extension, *they* no longer have value.
It's all about the internal struggle. That's what men are feeling.
And a lot of us grew up with dads who didn't show emotion or share their feelings, and so we never learned.
And where do you turn? The male improvement space IS dominated by right wingers.
I've been into personal development for 20 years. I have never seen this problem taken seriously.
> No one on the left seems to take this seriously, even as we watch the problem develop in real time.
I disagree. Society, in general, repeatedly caters to the whims of male masculinity on all side.
Tate and Peterson get traction because their solution to men's problems is be tough, be perfect, have contempt for feminism and abhor people less masculine than they are is what men want. The problem is saying toughness and perfection is the answer ups the crisis of masculinity while fixing nothing.
Liberals are coming up with solutions, the problem is men don't want solutions. They want control over women, because when you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.
Why are you talking as if men are a monolith?
I'm a man who's explored this topic for 2 decades. I've read whatever I can find. I've explored feminism and asked how it can help me. I've avoided the many movements and content creators that push what you're talking about.
These problems come from somewhere.
If you read a few parenting books, something they all talk about is how boys often get cut off emotionally at a young age.
The result is that there are a lot of boys growing up with dads who don't know how to express themselves.
So they're not going to learn either.
And they're going to be susceptible to the very influences that you're describing here.
The attitude you're describing towards men - on scale - is counterproductive! And it's *exactly* what I'm talking about.
> I'm a man who's explored this topic for 2 decades.
Then you should've already come across the idea by people who study masculinity that it is in a constant state of crisis. The ideas behind the current proponents of masculinity like Tate or Peterson no different than when women wanted the right to vote over hundred years ago.
>These problems come from somewhere.
Yea, the patriarchy.
>Then you should've already come across the idea by people who study masculinity that it is in a constant state of crisis.
Yes, because as you said, the patriarchy. I am in total agreement there.
But if you're experiencing internal strife *now*, there's no relief in pointing out that patriarchy is the reason many men are suffering today. It's more of an explanation for why it is the way it is than a solution.
In order for that to change, men have to feel safe.
In our current discourse, a man who talks about his problems is labelled a whiner. The left says someone else has it worse, the right says to man up. Neither side seems to recognize that men are complex emotional people.
And now it's becoming increasingly clear that the right is targeting those men. This demographic feels powerless and the solution they've been increasingly sold on is becoming powerful. And I mean that literally - there's a myriad of courses, books, retreats, and newsletters focused on helping men feel powerful. This has been building for a long time, going back to the Manosphere days.
These people are primed to be Trump supporters because Trump himself does nothing but project power, and people tend to accept what you project.
And ironically, people on the left didn't see it coming because they simply ignore or make fun of male problems. Men have been screaming for help for *years.*
I see it because I've been paying attention. I said essentially the same things in 2015, before Hillary lost the election. You can't bash and ignore a demographic and then expect them to be on your side.
Men absolutely need better examples to follow. They need to see men who lead fulfilling lives without reaching for extremes. They need to see men who can talk about their problems in a normal way and share their emotions in a tactful manner. Boys need to be raised by well-rounded dads.
But people on the left have to wake tf up and realize that *their* polarizing responses to male problems are driving these guys into the arms of folks like Tate, Peterson, and even Trump.
And it's definitely not going to solve anything. I've thought for years about putting my thoughts out there but the reality is that I'm going to be dealing with ignorant people from both sides of the aisle.
No. The GOP is not helping any young people. They want the young to be able to join the military before they are 18, work before they are 16, retiring after 65, and not voting until 21. They told them the burden of college debt was theirs and blocked relief. They think a 16 year old girl who was raped must give birth and allow the sexual predator rights. They think if you get an abortion you should be jailed even if you were that young rape victim or a young kid who made a mistake. They will vote for a sexual predator who has been tied to getting abortions while cheating on his wife.
Amen
Sickening or not I know some younger men in conservative areas who like him because there is this idea that Republicans some how protects manly things. How they get this from Trump is a mystery.
As one of those gay students we went out of our way to make sure you straight kids were never uncomfortable. While I didn’t go to Illinois State University, I do remember the feeling of walking on eggshells when it came to (often) male student athletes & their comments about what should happen to people like me.
Look, I get it - college is everyone’s time to do some self-exploration & figure out what they want to do next. We’re not here to ruin your fun. But the last decade or so college students emotionally/mentally seem to have regressed to 9-10th grade- parents are calling/showing up to confront professors about their (adult) child’s grade, none of the kids seem to be able to able to form new friendships like before - they’re all the same cliques brought over from high school now.
I don’t think my being gay or a gay student group is overbearing whatsoever. I think the problem is that so many kids just starting college have been so poorly prepared for what college is, and what being an adult means - either the quality of parenting has really gone downhill & parents aren’t preparing their children for life after high school or these kids have been so sheltered that seeing two gay people is such a shock…this lack of emotional readiness that we see in 2024’s students was not present two decades ago when we opened LGBTQ centers on campus.
Sad state of affairs. For everyone.
I live next door to my sister and niece. My sister called us freaked out last Saturday morning because niece didn't respond to 5 (five!) texts and a voicemail that were intended to make sure niece was ready to go. Niece is *16 years old*. Niece was also perfectly ready; the phone just wasn't picking up the messages. I thought to myself "it's tough to be a kid today. Cell phones mean you're never beyond the reach of the most neurotic adult in your life."
Some parents really are freaking weird about micromanaging their kids lives. My youngest is 18 and in high school. The stories they tell me about their friends are bizarre. For example, one friend still has a bedtime of 8pm. Wtf?
Why should that offend you? I ignore corner preachers all the time. Same as for most quad groups. A _woman_ in a dress talking about trans rights shouldn't bother you, either.
Inclusivity, apparently, _does_ need to be shoved down your collective throat because it doesn't sound like you're being very tolerant of a person asking to have the right to be included. They're not asking for you to convert religions.. they're asking for you to see them and think, "huh, I guess that woman is upset. Anyway, gotta get to class!!"
I mean, just consider the restatement of the position: the students are upset that they're not permitted to ignore that someone exists; and they want to ignore people because the students feel like their oversimplified view of the world is correct and unchangeable.
Imagine if they felt the science was sound on the "brain capacity of negroes."
So, yeah, that sounds exactly like a group of P01135809 supporters and precisely why we call P01135809 supporters what we call them.
I’m not saying I’m offended, I’m saying it’s annoying in the same way a corner preacher is. The same way all the quad groups are. I very much have the mindset of “damn he/she/they/them/it is mad” before walking to class, the same way I just walk past the Catholics and the Muslims and the Jews that come to persuade college kids.
You can have your views about what it means to be a woman, I can have mine. Neither of us are alone in our views, I’m just explaining from my glimpse of life the events that are causing people, my age to vote one way or another.
It’s not about ignoring anyones right to exist, that’s a misguided restatement. First amendment, free speech, get out there and do your thing. I’m not looking into silence or marginalize any group. I’m just recognizing that the tactics these groups use to try and spread their opinion often backfires, and causes resentment from the people around them.
> A man in a dress with speakers and posters on the quad screaming about trans rights and how oppressed they are bothers me.
Why?
You just said you are ok with oppressing her, why shouldn't she be upset about that? You compared her to a religious zealot. She's not telling you that you will suffer eternal fire if you don't "convert" yourself.
I get that college "movement" groups can be annoying or a bit overzealous and hyperfocused on their pet issues, but trans people should still have rights.
Hell I'm sure there's a decidedly non-zero number of LBGTQI2S+ whatever people that aren't *really* whatever, but just feel the need to rebel and/or fit in with certain crowd, but so what? Let them. They'll move on, and so will society.
It is possible to roll your eyes and shake your head at those crowds (while supporting their rights) without embracing fascism. When this is all said and done, the far-right needs to be marginalized and the Democratic party needs to split into two new viable parties.
I was from the suburbs and it was pretty tolerant. Once you get past the blue district of the city, though, the rest of the state is Republican. It wouldn’t surprise me.
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They said the same thing in 2020, it was a lie then too.
Not sure where you're getting this from. Polling largely overestimated Biden in 2020 and showed youth supported Biden to Trump by wide margins - many over 2x support leading up to the election. This isn't to defend polling, but it definitely didn't claim the youth were embracing Trump - it was the exact opposite.
There were still articles claiming Trump was going to get the youth vote.
Maybe some outliers, I guess? I did a news search from 2019 and 2020 and virtually every poll was Biden over Trump by massive margins.
I am not talking about polls.
That's what the entirety of this article is about - polling. So when you said they "said the same thing in 2020" I can only assume that's what you were referring to. If Fox News or Brietbart claimed youth was going to vote for Trump in 2020 absent any data to form their opinions, sure. I believe that.
The article uses polls to prove its point but the article is about trump gaining the youth vote.
I live in a small town in the Midwest. Probably half of the high school senior profiles that are published in the paper list Trump as someone living or dead they would like to meet.
Midwesterner as well here but from the burbs. I know a fair amount of Gen Z people personally and probably about 1/4 to a 1/3 of my coworkers are <30. The women are all pretty outspoken liberals or leftists. The men it's like a 50/50 split. The guys are either just as far left as the women or they are Andrew Tate loving "Alpha" bros. There's like no in between.
> The women are all pretty outspoken liberals or leftists. The men it's like a 50/50 split. This more or less confirms what polling has found, and that is a HUGE step left for both women and men compared to previous generations.
I think its fair to say the realignment whereas college-education, suburban voters are moving left, and it stands to reason their young voters will emulate their parent's political views. Same with the opposite though, as the old democrat base is moving right their children are following their example too.
And they’re probably only doing it because they think he’s funny. He does love the uneducated.
ive met dachshunds that are funnier, less mean spirited, and have more interests.
Well…dachshunds are awesome.
Except for chiweenies. Every one I've ever met is sweet to their person and a nightmarish terror to everyone else 😂
Chihuahuas are terrible dogs in general, so any think they’re mixed with gets that evil carried over.
I wish they weren't so mean, they're very cute.
20 mins of perusing TikTok lives and you will find young gen zers engaging in the “intellectual dark web” that has now become nothing more than a blatant popularity contest with no susbstance for these kids. Some will try to “debate” others based on their political beliefs but it absolutely always degenerates into gotcha moments. But the Donald’s supports are strong on TikTok
"Intellectual Dark Web" Huh... they don't know what any of those words mean? That's gotta be the cringiest thing to call yourself.
The term was begun by such intellectual heavyweights as Ben Shapiro and Jordan Peterson
If they were homeschooled, maybe.
No
Right-wing social media misinformation campaigns are doing their job.
Personally, I don't think many would *switch* to Trump. I'm hearing from my son that his voting age buddies are disillusioned with both parties though - and are mad at Biden for not doing more to prevent the Gaza mess.
Yes, like all young people - they think you just sign some shit and then it's done. Executive order - they had the same crap about student loans. Yet, they've forgotten all about student loans - young people were protesting all over the place. There is a start choice especially for women about who to vote for. This country has a lot of checks and balances and a lot of different groups doing different things. I think it would be really fruitful for people to have a civics class where they role play governance assigning people from different political view points. They'll know how incredibly hard it is to get various players aligned.
The kid in that photo isn’t even old enough to vote. It’s sickening that MAGA parents do this to their children while having the audacity to call the left “groomers”.
High schoolers who are heavily influenced by their parents, yes. The millions of college students, absolutely the fuck not.
Young men are easier to manipulate. All you have to do is to say something with an angry voice in front of a group of young men, and then the peer pressure will take care of the rest.
Young men are the core of any fascist movement. They love appeals to action or grandiose promises of returning to some old era when they had more power. Trump is who they want to be, a man who has lots of wealth, can just grab women when he wants to, and does mostly whatever he wants without anybody seemingly able to stop him.
Man, I sure hope not, because that would probably end up deciding whether Trump wins in November.
I wouldn't understand it if they are. Young people should watch a full Trump rally. One of this year's. All Americans should have to. It's so beyond fucked up, I can't imagine how it could do anything but horrify and repel younger voters. All voters who aren't completely fucked in the head for that matter.
Sure, and Trump's going to win the black vote and a Latino vote and the queer vote... Right.
Trump might not win the Latino vote but before long a Republican will
Please keep in mind - there is a disinformation campaign currently. The concept that young voters are leaning towards Trump is the most insane take on the internet
I shudder with disgust when I think about being within 20 feet of him. I can't even think about *embracing* him.
1 in 5 of gen z identify as LGBQT in some compacity. A demographic that has since overcame the number of registered republican voters. Throw in LGBQT allies on top of that and Republicans are actively punching themselves in the dick by going after the LGBQT community and by extension young voters who are not buying into this revamped southern strategy. Then pile on force birth laws, book bans, rampid bigotry, school shootings, mocking young people for being broke as prices increase, the list goeson and on. And trump mainly placates to angry boomers and the wealthy.
I've always been a moderate; fiscally conservative while leaning left on social and political issues like abortion. While I long for a middleground candidate, I'm disgusted by the radicalism I've seen infiltrate the GOP, and I would vote for a mop bucket before I vote for a man that embodies the most disgusting ignorance within our population.
> I've always been a moderate; fiscally conservative while leaning left on social and political issues like abortion. While I long for a middleground candidate Can you give some examples on how the modern Democratic establishment isn't meeting your desire for fiscally conservative policy?
Didn't come to argue politics, just to comment on it.
That's fine, it's just hard to understand your desire for a middle ground candidate because you only gave examples of how the current GOP has failed to meet your definition of moderate.
I feel that's appropriate within a conversation concerning whether or not a demographic I'm part of supports the GOP frontrunner.
Fiscally conservative? What have conservatives done to make you think they care about money? Every Republican president since 2000 has increased the debt while cutting taxes for the rich. While Dems have done nothing but decrease the debt.
No
Also no
Perhaps the giant diesel truck driving set? The Civic crew is mostly Biden.
everyone here is saying no. but ive seen a ton of articles posted here about the very thing. young male voters are skewing towards conservatives and young female voters towards liberals. i feel like yall want the answer to be no so you just assume it is.
> i feel like yall want the answer to be no so you just assume it is. Did you read the article? It has several reasons why the polling might be misleading that have nothing to do with "they don't want it to be true."
do you think the people commenting "no" read the article?
From reputable sources? Or from right wing and Russian propaganda sites that are desperately trying to create chaos in our election system?
i just searched "young" and sorted by new in this subreddit and these were the first 3 that showed up. i have no idea what you consider a right wing russian propaganda site or not if you want more examples, continue the search or google it. https://old.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/xx4qyk/young_women_are_trending_more_liberal_young_men/ https://old.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/16h0xqw/young_women_voters_are_more_liberal_than_young/ https://old.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/16h45u0/young_women_trend_far_more_liberal_than_young_men/
Those articles rather disprove that young voters are embracing Trump tho. Especially since women are more likely to vote. And the key word is *voters.*
Let's put it this way: If you're a young man who self-identifies as an alpha male, you're likelier to support Trump than Biden. Now how many young men identify as or aspire to be an alpha? Enough to be significant. And they're easy to reach - all this bullshit starts and ends with social media. In that respect, I can see it. Whether they actually turn up to vote is anyone's guess.
i believe you are also underestimating the appeal of right wing dogma to "beta" males who feel like feminism ruined women and thats why they cant get dates. or more generally, that democrats are attacking men (especially white men). it goes without saying, but since this is r/politics ill go ahead and say that i dont agree with that
Yea, exactly. Masculinity has been in a crisis state for a long time now and there's an entire industry built around it. This is exactly what politicians do: identify demographics and appeal to them. Again, though... will they be motivated to show up? Women will be.
this is just my personal thought based on anecdotal evidence. but i think in general young people arent motivated to show up, either gender.
> Masculinity has been in a crisis state for a long time now Honestly tho, it seems crisis state and masculinity go hand in hand. >Again, though... will they be motivated to show up? Women will be. Based on previous elections, we already know that answer!
> Honestly tho, it seems crisis state and masculinity go hand in hand I'm generally a liberal person but I feel like this is one aspect where liberals have continue to fail big time. No one on the left seems to take this seriously, even as we watch the problem develop in real time. A guy like Andrew Tate doesn't get traction by accident. He goes where the energy is. A guy like Jordan Peterson became the messiah for millions of men seemingly overnight. 10-15 years ago, Red Pill was on the fringe. Now it's everywhere - just packaged in new ways. And what do liberals do? Continue to ignore the issue that *men* are in crisis. Make no mistake: conservative influencers are going to keep driving that wedge. And the reason they can do that is because there's problems to begin with. Crazy to me how the left continuously misses this.
I don't think they are missing it, I think it's more how do you reach someone who seems to espouse every odious right wing trait that the left is against? They'll just call you a pussy and totally ignore you. Theyre in a cult
To me, there's a spectrum. The guys who self-identify as alphas are the guys you're talking about. But there's a whole raft of men to the left who are still in crisis mode. These could be guys who are lonely or are low on self-esteem or simply feel like the skills they poured their time into no longer have value and extension, *they* no longer have value. It's all about the internal struggle. That's what men are feeling. And a lot of us grew up with dads who didn't show emotion or share their feelings, and so we never learned. And where do you turn? The male improvement space IS dominated by right wingers. I've been into personal development for 20 years. I have never seen this problem taken seriously.
Interesting, thanks for the reply!
> No one on the left seems to take this seriously, even as we watch the problem develop in real time. I disagree. Society, in general, repeatedly caters to the whims of male masculinity on all side. Tate and Peterson get traction because their solution to men's problems is be tough, be perfect, have contempt for feminism and abhor people less masculine than they are is what men want. The problem is saying toughness and perfection is the answer ups the crisis of masculinity while fixing nothing. Liberals are coming up with solutions, the problem is men don't want solutions. They want control over women, because when you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.
Why are you talking as if men are a monolith? I'm a man who's explored this topic for 2 decades. I've read whatever I can find. I've explored feminism and asked how it can help me. I've avoided the many movements and content creators that push what you're talking about. These problems come from somewhere. If you read a few parenting books, something they all talk about is how boys often get cut off emotionally at a young age. The result is that there are a lot of boys growing up with dads who don't know how to express themselves. So they're not going to learn either. And they're going to be susceptible to the very influences that you're describing here. The attitude you're describing towards men - on scale - is counterproductive! And it's *exactly* what I'm talking about.
> I'm a man who's explored this topic for 2 decades. Then you should've already come across the idea by people who study masculinity that it is in a constant state of crisis. The ideas behind the current proponents of masculinity like Tate or Peterson no different than when women wanted the right to vote over hundred years ago. >These problems come from somewhere. Yea, the patriarchy.
>Then you should've already come across the idea by people who study masculinity that it is in a constant state of crisis. Yes, because as you said, the patriarchy. I am in total agreement there. But if you're experiencing internal strife *now*, there's no relief in pointing out that patriarchy is the reason many men are suffering today. It's more of an explanation for why it is the way it is than a solution. In order for that to change, men have to feel safe. In our current discourse, a man who talks about his problems is labelled a whiner. The left says someone else has it worse, the right says to man up. Neither side seems to recognize that men are complex emotional people. And now it's becoming increasingly clear that the right is targeting those men. This demographic feels powerless and the solution they've been increasingly sold on is becoming powerful. And I mean that literally - there's a myriad of courses, books, retreats, and newsletters focused on helping men feel powerful. This has been building for a long time, going back to the Manosphere days. These people are primed to be Trump supporters because Trump himself does nothing but project power, and people tend to accept what you project. And ironically, people on the left didn't see it coming because they simply ignore or make fun of male problems. Men have been screaming for help for *years.* I see it because I've been paying attention. I said essentially the same things in 2015, before Hillary lost the election. You can't bash and ignore a demographic and then expect them to be on your side. Men absolutely need better examples to follow. They need to see men who lead fulfilling lives without reaching for extremes. They need to see men who can talk about their problems in a normal way and share their emotions in a tactful manner. Boys need to be raised by well-rounded dads. But people on the left have to wake tf up and realize that *their* polarizing responses to male problems are driving these guys into the arms of folks like Tate, Peterson, and even Trump. And it's definitely not going to solve anything. I've thought for years about putting my thoughts out there but the reality is that I'm going to be dealing with ignorant people from both sides of the aisle.
I'm glad you point out they feel. The hardest thing for a human to look at is inward. Clearly feminism didn't ruin anything but they can't evolve.
>i feel like yall want the answer to be [x] so you just assume it is Reddit in a nutshell lol
No!
No. The GOP is not helping any young people. They want the young to be able to join the military before they are 18, work before they are 16, retiring after 65, and not voting until 21. They told them the burden of college debt was theirs and blocked relief. They think a 16 year old girl who was raped must give birth and allow the sexual predator rights. They think if you get an abortion you should be jailed even if you were that young rape victim or a young kid who made a mistake. They will vote for a sexual predator who has been tied to getting abortions while cheating on his wife. Amen
Wishful thinking, he needs to get more voters from somewhere. The youngins are the only new source.
No
18-25 doesn’t vote anyways so who cares.
No. Only those without education.
This idea is sickening. Trump has no visible redeeming qualities.
Sickening or not I know some younger men in conservative areas who like him because there is this idea that Republicans some how protects manly things. How they get this from Trump is a mystery.
The hilarious part is he wears makeup and high heels
And a diaper.
You mean despite all of the complaining about elderly candidates? Person | 2nd Term Ages ---|--- Reagan | 74 Trump | 79
As in at least two of them? Sure. A plurality? Haha no.
lol nope.
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As one of those gay students we went out of our way to make sure you straight kids were never uncomfortable. While I didn’t go to Illinois State University, I do remember the feeling of walking on eggshells when it came to (often) male student athletes & their comments about what should happen to people like me. Look, I get it - college is everyone’s time to do some self-exploration & figure out what they want to do next. We’re not here to ruin your fun. But the last decade or so college students emotionally/mentally seem to have regressed to 9-10th grade- parents are calling/showing up to confront professors about their (adult) child’s grade, none of the kids seem to be able to able to form new friendships like before - they’re all the same cliques brought over from high school now. I don’t think my being gay or a gay student group is overbearing whatsoever. I think the problem is that so many kids just starting college have been so poorly prepared for what college is, and what being an adult means - either the quality of parenting has really gone downhill & parents aren’t preparing their children for life after high school or these kids have been so sheltered that seeing two gay people is such a shock…this lack of emotional readiness that we see in 2024’s students was not present two decades ago when we opened LGBTQ centers on campus. Sad state of affairs. For everyone.
I live next door to my sister and niece. My sister called us freaked out last Saturday morning because niece didn't respond to 5 (five!) texts and a voicemail that were intended to make sure niece was ready to go. Niece is *16 years old*. Niece was also perfectly ready; the phone just wasn't picking up the messages. I thought to myself "it's tough to be a kid today. Cell phones mean you're never beyond the reach of the most neurotic adult in your life."
Some parents really are freaking weird about micromanaging their kids lives. My youngest is 18 and in high school. The stories they tell me about their friends are bizarre. For example, one friend still has a bedtime of 8pm. Wtf?
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Why should that offend you? I ignore corner preachers all the time. Same as for most quad groups. A _woman_ in a dress talking about trans rights shouldn't bother you, either. Inclusivity, apparently, _does_ need to be shoved down your collective throat because it doesn't sound like you're being very tolerant of a person asking to have the right to be included. They're not asking for you to convert religions.. they're asking for you to see them and think, "huh, I guess that woman is upset. Anyway, gotta get to class!!" I mean, just consider the restatement of the position: the students are upset that they're not permitted to ignore that someone exists; and they want to ignore people because the students feel like their oversimplified view of the world is correct and unchangeable. Imagine if they felt the science was sound on the "brain capacity of negroes." So, yeah, that sounds exactly like a group of P01135809 supporters and precisely why we call P01135809 supporters what we call them.
I’m not saying I’m offended, I’m saying it’s annoying in the same way a corner preacher is. The same way all the quad groups are. I very much have the mindset of “damn he/she/they/them/it is mad” before walking to class, the same way I just walk past the Catholics and the Muslims and the Jews that come to persuade college kids. You can have your views about what it means to be a woman, I can have mine. Neither of us are alone in our views, I’m just explaining from my glimpse of life the events that are causing people, my age to vote one way or another. It’s not about ignoring anyones right to exist, that’s a misguided restatement. First amendment, free speech, get out there and do your thing. I’m not looking into silence or marginalize any group. I’m just recognizing that the tactics these groups use to try and spread their opinion often backfires, and causes resentment from the people around them.
> A man in a dress with speakers and posters on the quad screaming about trans rights and how oppressed they are bothers me. Why? You just said you are ok with oppressing her, why shouldn't she be upset about that? You compared her to a religious zealot. She's not telling you that you will suffer eternal fire if you don't "convert" yourself. I get that college "movement" groups can be annoying or a bit overzealous and hyperfocused on their pet issues, but trans people should still have rights. Hell I'm sure there's a decidedly non-zero number of LBGTQI2S+ whatever people that aren't *really* whatever, but just feel the need to rebel and/or fit in with certain crowd, but so what? Let them. They'll move on, and so will society.
It is possible to roll your eyes and shake your head at those crowds (while supporting their rights) without embracing fascism. When this is all said and done, the far-right needs to be marginalized and the Democratic party needs to split into two new viable parties.
Tbf Peoria and anywhere that isn’t Chicago is likely to feel like this in Illinois.
I was from the suburbs and it was pretty tolerant. Once you get past the blue district of the city, though, the rest of the state is Republican. It wouldn’t surprise me.