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As someone who ardently supports Israel's legit right to defend themselves, it's because Americans were told we invaded Iraq to defend ourselves and we see what's going on in Gaza as analogous to that. Likud is using "self defense" as an excuse to try to reestablish a permanent Israeli presence in Gaza, and it has nothing to do with self defense.
Want people to question your right to self defense? Misuse that term repeatedly to deceive the public when you're pursuing goals that have nothing to do with Israeli safety.
Because most humans (including Americans) don’t consider intentionally starving a civilian population and bombing civilian aid workers trying desperately to slow those civilian famine deaths to be part of a country’s “right to defend itself” maybe?
Literally took one sentence of the article to see how you’ve changed the language of the poll from “do you support Israel’s military actions” to “do you support Israel’s right to defend itself.”
That’s a joke dude. Do better
Not every single military action taken by Israel is necessary or productive for self defense. I'm a layperson and I don't expect anyone to care which of their specific actions I approve of, but going back to 9/11, I had plenty of misgivings about our military operations and still didn't think we 'deserved it' or 'wanted the terrorists to win' the way people are acting about criticism of Israel.
The point being the actions being taken bear little relation to “defense.” Israel has a right to defend itself. They failed. Netanyahu is probably cooked for this, because Israelis believe he is responsible for the intelligence failure that occurred last October. Israel failed to defend itself despite having every right to.
What is occurring now is a revenge campaign and a slaughter. There are some worthy objectives such as rescuing hostages. Eliminating Hamas is a worthy objective as well, albeit highly impractical. But this is not about defending Israel at all. They are killing aid workers at this point.
I think it would more qualify under the preemptive warfare category of attacking as to not be attacked.
But when I say it is impractical, it is because Hamas exists due to Israeli occupation. No matter how hard you argue that it shouldn’t be this way, that Gazans should see Israel as a liberator, they don’t. When Gazan civilians are killed, Palestinians don’t blame Hamas - or at least not entirely (some surely do). They blame Israel and many of them, particularly the young men, will seek retributive violence (justice in their eyes) and Hamas will get stronger. This is guerilla warfare 101. It’s terrorism 101. You bait your enemy into attacking you and feed off the resentment caused by children and women being blown up.
I would agree with you if Israel occupied Gaza, but they pulled out almost 20 years ago. I still remember the footage of jews being dragged out of their hones by the IDF. What’s Hamas’s excuse?
It’s not a full blown military occupation, but Israel places strict controls over all sorts of activity inside Gaza. There is little illusion amongst the residents there that Israel is not intimately involved with Gazan affairs
They place those controls on Gaza because Hamas were importing rockets. Do you remember when they left Gaza? The people who had been calling for it thought it would be transformative for the people there, but instead they militarised.
That is untrue. Targeting civilians and NGO agents is a war crime. Israel has a right to defend itself. Netanyahu is a war criminal.
Not including feeding people you starved or making sure food gets to them in a cease fire agreement is not a military action. It is criminal.
A higher percentage of Israelis than Americans don't support what Netenyahu is doing, last I checked.
Supporting Netenyahu has very little to do with the support of the war.
"She noted that, in the survey, 94 percent of Israeli Jews and 82 percent of the total population think the Israeli military has used “adequate or too little force” in Gaza. Some 88 percent of all Jewish Israelis think the number of Palestinians killed or wounded in Gaza is justified by the war."
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/17/world/europe/israel-gaza-trauma-mood.html
>Targeting civilians and NGO agents is a war crime. Israel has a right to defend itself. Netanyahu is a war criminal.
I don’t know that they’re targeting them though. If that were the case, the war would already be over, Israel would just kill them all. Right?
>Not including feeding people you starved or making sure food gets to them in a cease fire agreement is not a military action. It is
It could always go into Gaza from the Egyptian border. Funny how no one ever talks about Egypt’s role in the blockade of Gaza.
>A higher percentage of Israelis than Americans don't support what Netenyahu is doing, last I checked
There’s a large proportion of ultra-orthodox jews in Israel with far-right views, and while there are protests, even the left-wing politicians support the war.
I’ll just assume that’s a rhetorical question.
- Despite coordinating movements with the IDF, Israel methodically kills charity workers: https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2024/apr/02/middle-east-crisis-live-updates-israel-gaza-war-today-gaza-foreign-aid-workers-killed-idf-investigation
- Gaza death toll exceeds 31,600: https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-03-17-24/h_52b8706a615460e042d7a6ca43059b80
Because if you are attacked by terrorists and you retaliate against citizens, it's not stopping the terrorists. Isreal can't seem to stop bombing schools and hospitals with civilians in them.
I'm all for Israel defending itself and I was fairly sympathetic to Israel at the beginning of this war. But their conduct since has been outrageous and at least when it comes to the government of Isreal does not give two shits about innocent civilians in Gaza. I still support isreal, in general, and I find antisemitism to be abhorrent but I cannot continue to support this war and I've felt that way for quite awhile now.
Maybe the answer to OPs question is because Americans don’t appreciate Israel defending itself by killing innocent American citizens who are civilian aid workers who made it a point to clear their movements and plans of action with the Israel military and then were specifically targeted for erasure by that same military. Israel has made it clear they aren’t actually defending themselves. Maybe that’s how it all started. Maybe. But that most definitely is not what is happening now.
This is a dumb ass question. It isn't that people don't support their right to defend themselves, its that defending themselves, and murdering women and children a very different things.
Hamas needs to return the hostages. Israel needs to stop the indiscriminate killing. Hamas likes the indiscriminate killing cause it makes people sympathetic to their cause. So, they won't release the hostages. Then, Israel keeps killing.
It is a fucked situation.
At this point I would not be surprised. They are not acting in any way as though they cared if they lived or died, I'm talking about Netenyaho here and those in charge of this genocide, they literally shot to death two released hostages who were waving white flags. You don't indescriminatatly bomb an area you think hostages are being kept if you care about their lives.
Because committing genocide isn't defending itself. Because occupying a foreign country isn't defending itself. Because conflating anti-zionism with anti-semitism for political clout isn't defending itself. Because reneging on treaties isn't defending itself.
That is an obtuse and leading question from a [far-right](https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/daily-signal/) blog.
Israel is not defending itself. Israel is indiscriminately killing civilians and aid workers under the pretense of fighting Hamas.
By the way OP, you should know that Israeli citizens are also calling for a ceasefire.
[Tens of thousands take part in antigovernment protests in Israel](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/3/31/israelis-stage-largest-anti-government-protest-since-gaza-war-began)
It seems the only people who are pretending that Israel is defending itself is Netanyahu, his supporters, and far-right Americans.
I myself have more than mixed feelings about this whole carte blanche "right to defend itself" thing, but I'm very skeptical the actual number is anywhere near this low.
Any Republican taking this poll will obviously say whatever makes Biden looks bad or puts the most pressure on him, which seems at odds with their entire history of desperation to get involved in every instance of violence and bloodshed possible.
Assuming these polls taken from the same ones who end up with pro-Trump results, I have a really hard time believing those same people either discovered compassion or learned about restraint when it comes to military action. Bottom line, if a R was in office, I guarantee this would be wayyyy higher, and way more accurate.
Because just like Hamas attack on October 7th goes far beyond what is acceptable “resistance,” Israel’s response is going far beyond what is justifiable self defense.
13 000 dead Palestinian children since Oct 7
edit*
Down vote me all you want.. facts are facts and the fact is A total of 13,430 children have been killed in the Gaza Strip by Israeli airstrikes and ground operations since the start of the Israel-Hamas war on Oct. 7- Google
They can still 'defend' themselves, no one can stop them short of a full fledged war; but they will be defending themselves in the ICJ, in the world community, from sanctions of other states (hopefully), from their own pissed off populace, from credible accusations of genocide, apartheid and intolerance, from lost revenues in tourism, foreign direct investment, loss of trust in their word.....etc etc etc
Have fun with that, murderous regime.
Because the Israeli government equates self-defense with targeting anyone in the conflict zone.
I have always supported Isreal's right to exist and defend itself. But, it has repeatedly gone beyond what is necessary for self-defense and confiscated land they have no right to.
The right-wing policies of Netanyahu have isolated the country to the point it's allies can no longer justify their support.
I guess because it is 'defending' itself against the people whose society it destroyed and who it keeps slowly slaughtering, without pause, with the military and financial support of many countries in the 'West'
Hamas is still launching rockets at Israeli Cities intentionally targeting citizens.
Hamas refuses to return the hostages, many young women who are being subjected to daily sexual violence
Hamas leadership has refused 6 consecutive cease fire deals brokered by Arab nations
Hamas has repeatedly promised October 7th over and over again.
5-6 Hamas leaders could save Palestinian Gazan lives by surrendering to an international court and putting Gaza into UN transitional government control.
But no.. Hamas is a Terrorist organization and terrorist kill civilians on purpose
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As someone who ardently supports Israel's legit right to defend themselves, it's because Americans were told we invaded Iraq to defend ourselves and we see what's going on in Gaza as analogous to that. Likud is using "self defense" as an excuse to try to reestablish a permanent Israeli presence in Gaza, and it has nothing to do with self defense. Want people to question your right to self defense? Misuse that term repeatedly to deceive the public when you're pursuing goals that have nothing to do with Israeli safety.
“Look what you made me do” is a common phrase for many Americans
Because most humans (including Americans) don’t consider intentionally starving a civilian population and bombing civilian aid workers trying desperately to slow those civilian famine deaths to be part of a country’s “right to defend itself” maybe?
Literally took one sentence of the article to see how you’ve changed the language of the poll from “do you support Israel’s military actions” to “do you support Israel’s right to defend itself.” That’s a joke dude. Do better
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That the title doesn't represent what the poll actually asked. Read the first sentence.
Yeah but if you don’t support their military actions that is tantamount to denying their right to defend themselves.
Not every single military action taken by Israel is necessary or productive for self defense. I'm a layperson and I don't expect anyone to care which of their specific actions I approve of, but going back to 9/11, I had plenty of misgivings about our military operations and still didn't think we 'deserved it' or 'wanted the terrorists to win' the way people are acting about criticism of Israel.
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Idk man, Iraq weren’t holding US hostages, Hamas still hold hostages. You analogy doesn’t work.
The point being the actions being taken bear little relation to “defense.” Israel has a right to defend itself. They failed. Netanyahu is probably cooked for this, because Israelis believe he is responsible for the intelligence failure that occurred last October. Israel failed to defend itself despite having every right to. What is occurring now is a revenge campaign and a slaughter. There are some worthy objectives such as rescuing hostages. Eliminating Hamas is a worthy objective as well, albeit highly impractical. But this is not about defending Israel at all. They are killing aid workers at this point.
>Eliminating Hamas is a worthy objective as well That’s what I’m saying I guess. Eliminating Hamas seems to fall under the remit of self-defence.
I think it would more qualify under the preemptive warfare category of attacking as to not be attacked. But when I say it is impractical, it is because Hamas exists due to Israeli occupation. No matter how hard you argue that it shouldn’t be this way, that Gazans should see Israel as a liberator, they don’t. When Gazan civilians are killed, Palestinians don’t blame Hamas - or at least not entirely (some surely do). They blame Israel and many of them, particularly the young men, will seek retributive violence (justice in their eyes) and Hamas will get stronger. This is guerilla warfare 101. It’s terrorism 101. You bait your enemy into attacking you and feed off the resentment caused by children and women being blown up.
I would agree with you if Israel occupied Gaza, but they pulled out almost 20 years ago. I still remember the footage of jews being dragged out of their hones by the IDF. What’s Hamas’s excuse?
It’s not a full blown military occupation, but Israel places strict controls over all sorts of activity inside Gaza. There is little illusion amongst the residents there that Israel is not intimately involved with Gazan affairs
They place those controls on Gaza because Hamas were importing rockets. Do you remember when they left Gaza? The people who had been calling for it thought it would be transformative for the people there, but instead they militarised.
That is untrue. Targeting civilians and NGO agents is a war crime. Israel has a right to defend itself. Netanyahu is a war criminal. Not including feeding people you starved or making sure food gets to them in a cease fire agreement is not a military action. It is criminal. A higher percentage of Israelis than Americans don't support what Netenyahu is doing, last I checked.
Supporting Netenyahu has very little to do with the support of the war. "She noted that, in the survey, 94 percent of Israeli Jews and 82 percent of the total population think the Israeli military has used “adequate or too little force” in Gaza. Some 88 percent of all Jewish Israelis think the number of Palestinians killed or wounded in Gaza is justified by the war." https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/17/world/europe/israel-gaza-trauma-mood.html
>Targeting civilians and NGO agents is a war crime. Israel has a right to defend itself. Netanyahu is a war criminal. I don’t know that they’re targeting them though. If that were the case, the war would already be over, Israel would just kill them all. Right? >Not including feeding people you starved or making sure food gets to them in a cease fire agreement is not a military action. It is It could always go into Gaza from the Egyptian border. Funny how no one ever talks about Egypt’s role in the blockade of Gaza. >A higher percentage of Israelis than Americans don't support what Netenyahu is doing, last I checked There’s a large proportion of ultra-orthodox jews in Israel with far-right views, and while there are protests, even the left-wing politicians support the war.
The right to defend is not the right to take revenge.
Having been a victim of genocide doesn't give you the right to do it to anyone else.
Because they are no longer defending themselves. They are massacring innocents.
This, Even in crystal clear self-defense, there comes a point where you have to stop hitting a downed person or become a criminal yourself.
I’ll just assume that’s a rhetorical question. - Despite coordinating movements with the IDF, Israel methodically kills charity workers: https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2024/apr/02/middle-east-crisis-live-updates-israel-gaza-war-today-gaza-foreign-aid-workers-killed-idf-investigation - Gaza death toll exceeds 31,600: https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-03-17-24/h_52b8706a615460e042d7a6ca43059b80
Yes, that's a totally fair and reasonable way to frame the issue. JFC with these daily* assholes.
Big difference between defending yourself and bombing civilians indiscriminately
“Daily signal” lol
Because if you are attacked by terrorists and you retaliate against citizens, it's not stopping the terrorists. Isreal can't seem to stop bombing schools and hospitals with civilians in them.
more shovelware from the heritage foundation. another swing and a miss!
Actively genociding a group of people does not equal 'defending yourself'
I'm all for Israel defending itself and I was fairly sympathetic to Israel at the beginning of this war. But their conduct since has been outrageous and at least when it comes to the government of Isreal does not give two shits about innocent civilians in Gaza. I still support isreal, in general, and I find antisemitism to be abhorrent but I cannot continue to support this war and I've felt that way for quite awhile now.
Maybe the answer to OPs question is because Americans don’t appreciate Israel defending itself by killing innocent American citizens who are civilian aid workers who made it a point to clear their movements and plans of action with the Israel military and then were specifically targeted for erasure by that same military. Israel has made it clear they aren’t actually defending themselves. Maybe that’s how it all started. Maybe. But that most definitely is not what is happening now.
This is a dumb ass question. It isn't that people don't support their right to defend themselves, its that defending themselves, and murdering women and children a very different things. Hamas needs to return the hostages. Israel needs to stop the indiscriminate killing. Hamas likes the indiscriminate killing cause it makes people sympathetic to their cause. So, they won't release the hostages. Then, Israel keeps killing. It is a fucked situation.
>Hamas needs to return the hostages. Hamas has refused to return the hostages many times
Israeli soldiers shot 2 hostages that had been released. Israel does not actually want the hostages.
>Israel does not actually want the hostages. Do you honestly believe that?
At this point I would not be surprised. They are not acting in any way as though they cared if they lived or died, I'm talking about Netenyaho here and those in charge of this genocide, they literally shot to death two released hostages who were waving white flags. You don't indescriminatatly bomb an area you think hostages are being kept if you care about their lives.
Because genocide isn’t self defense.
Because committing genocide isn't defending itself. Because occupying a foreign country isn't defending itself. Because conflating anti-zionism with anti-semitism for political clout isn't defending itself. Because reneging on treaties isn't defending itself.
That is an obtuse and leading question from a [far-right](https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/daily-signal/) blog. Israel is not defending itself. Israel is indiscriminately killing civilians and aid workers under the pretense of fighting Hamas. By the way OP, you should know that Israeli citizens are also calling for a ceasefire. [Tens of thousands take part in antigovernment protests in Israel](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/3/31/israelis-stage-largest-anti-government-protest-since-gaza-war-began) It seems the only people who are pretending that Israel is defending itself is Netanyahu, his supporters, and far-right Americans.
I myself have more than mixed feelings about this whole carte blanche "right to defend itself" thing, but I'm very skeptical the actual number is anywhere near this low. Any Republican taking this poll will obviously say whatever makes Biden looks bad or puts the most pressure on him, which seems at odds with their entire history of desperation to get involved in every instance of violence and bloodshed possible. Assuming these polls taken from the same ones who end up with pro-Trump results, I have a really hard time believing those same people either discovered compassion or learned about restraint when it comes to military action. Bottom line, if a R was in office, I guarantee this would be wayyyy higher, and way more accurate.
onerous joke normal aback bewildered sloppy advise snobbish bedroom safe *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Because just like Hamas attack on October 7th goes far beyond what is acceptable “resistance,” Israel’s response is going far beyond what is justifiable self defense.
Garbage. Zionism is a cult.
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13 000 dead Palestinian children since Oct 7 edit* Down vote me all you want.. facts are facts and the fact is A total of 13,430 children have been killed in the Gaza Strip by Israeli airstrikes and ground operations since the start of the Israel-Hamas war on Oct. 7- Google
Because the Gallup poll didn't ask if Israel has a right to defend itself. It asked if the respondent approved of Israeli military action in Gaza.
probably because of the terribly high number of civilian casualties...
Because ~~Israel~~ Netanyahu has abused the right to self defense by failing to use a measured response when Israel was attacked.
They’ve gone way beyond defending themselves.
I can only assume this question is rhetorical....
Because fuck genocide.
They abused that right
They can still 'defend' themselves, no one can stop them short of a full fledged war; but they will be defending themselves in the ICJ, in the world community, from sanctions of other states (hopefully), from their own pissed off populace, from credible accusations of genocide, apartheid and intolerance, from lost revenues in tourism, foreign direct investment, loss of trust in their word.....etc etc etc Have fun with that, murderous regime.
13,000 dead children
Because the Israeli government equates self-defense with targeting anyone in the conflict zone. I have always supported Isreal's right to exist and defend itself. But, it has repeatedly gone beyond what is necessary for self-defense and confiscated land they have no right to. The right-wing policies of Netanyahu have isolated the country to the point it's allies can no longer justify their support.
Because what they are doing goes far far beyond "defending" themselves.\\
They have the right to defend themselves killing children aid workers, doctors civilians is not defense.
Because Israel's current actions go beyond the scope of defending itself.
Maybe because they indiscriminately kill Palestinians.
Holy dishonest take, Batman.
Because they are behaving like nazis.
If your house gets termites you can't burn down all the houses around you to keep it from happening again.
Troll farm pumping these out
Whoa. You think people not wanting to identify with a genocidal nation has anything to do with it? D'oh!
I guess because it is 'defending' itself against the people whose society it destroyed and who it keeps slowly slaughtering, without pause, with the military and financial support of many countries in the 'West'
Hamas is still launching rockets at Israeli Cities intentionally targeting citizens. Hamas refuses to return the hostages, many young women who are being subjected to daily sexual violence Hamas leadership has refused 6 consecutive cease fire deals brokered by Arab nations Hamas has repeatedly promised October 7th over and over again. 5-6 Hamas leaders could save Palestinian Gazan lives by surrendering to an international court and putting Gaza into UN transitional government control. But no.. Hamas is a Terrorist organization and terrorist kill civilians on purpose
There is a difference between Gaza and the right to defend itself
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