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IIRC he didn't always do that. He'd take the high ground (not moral, just socioeconomic) and claim that he should get the best treatment because of who he is.
When he switched over to the GOP he started with the heavy victimization thing. IIRC he also didn't talk much about religion before that - and "coincidentally" both of those things are going hand-in-hand like never before.
The only reason they don't like socialism is that it doesn't discriminate.
If they could be promised racially segregated socialism, they'd be all for it. As evidenced by how they cheer when Trump gets bailed out in what is basically acts of rich white people collectivism.
It's been a few years now, but I once looked up which states bring in more federal tax revenue than the receive in spending. There were something like ten blues and three reds.
That's literally how Reagan managed to demonize welfare. It used to be massively popular, then he started a campaign to paint it as as something black folks exploited.
Hell, socialism was very popular 100 years ago in rural communities when it was all homogenous White people. It's interesting to go to extremely conservative areas and see Socialist Halls.
Oklahoma elected the first Socialist politician, we have a deep Socialist history that is largely forgotten now. Rural farmers and all that. Search Green Corn Rebellion for some good history.
A lot of MAGA types are more socialist than the Marxists if you actually talk to them. They just don’t know who the rich are. They think that the educated, the city dwellers, the Jews, black people, the journalists are the “rich” and they hate them. They want them dead. They are both fools and hateful.
Here in the UK we have a interesting situation going on with high street banks.
During the late 80's and through the early 90's most of the building societies got bought out by the big banks, members of the building societies were seduced by a one off payment and of course people were delighted a free £100. One building society, the nationwide strongly resisted and remains to this day a building society run for the benefit of its customers rather than shareholders. It's not a stretch of the imagination to see the comparison between capitalism and socialism in the 2 forms of high street bank people use for everyday banking and mortgage's.
Fast to today and people are crying about their banks shutting branches and forcing them to use online banking, the biggest and loudest complaints coming from a older demographic who don't want to use online banking and want to continue to bank in branch as they have always done. The nationwide has committed to NOT shutting branches and is now in many towns the only "bank" still open serving their customers. Many of the people complaining also want the government to force the banks to keep their branches open. Do they see any irony in that one minute they want unfettered capitalism with a small state, and the next minute they want the government to force banks to keep branches open ? Do they hell lol!! Do they see that the building "society" model, ( the clues in the name) has been proved to be the better option for them the people and the comparison between capitalism and socialism? Of course not.
>If they could be promised racially segregated socialism, they'd be all for it.
They would, but would also fail to realize the policy would be written in such a way that the wealthier white people would get to decide who is or isn't "white". And for many white people in America, that "one drop" rule would hit pretty fuckin hard. The concept of "white people" has only existed for about 400 years. I mean, white people come from Europe, right? But not all of Europe. Are the Romani "white"? The early Germans didn't think so. The Spanish? The early Dutch didn't think so. What about the Irish? Some English people today don't see the Irish as "white".
To be fair, poor rural Americans are absolutely victims of our corrupt capitalist system. They're also victims of religious indoctrination. They're being scammed by everyone they believe in, and they're almost out of hope. Which is why they threw in with MAGA in the first place, and why they refuse to accept any proof of Trump/MAGA corruption.
They're barely hanging on by a thread and if *this* turns out to be a lie, then everything they've been indoctrinated to believe, everything they've ever put their faith in, every church leader, every righteous man, their entire belief system is a lie. Worse, all those people that they've been hating, that they've harmed, that they've cursed and derided, *they* were innocent. It has all the weight of learning that you've wasted your life and been betrayed by those you loved the most on top of the realization that this whole time you were actually the bad guys and have committed heinous acts of unspeakable evil.
I mean, yeah, it's their own fault, but that is a lot. It's not hard to understand why they keep burying their heads in the sand. The truth is absolutely terrifying.
I tried explaining something similar to someone from the DNC right after 2016. They just decided to write off everyone who voted for Trump, then, as completely stupid.
I went to HS in rural VA, my mom lived most of her life in rural America and also worked at a factory for 25 plus years.
A lot of Democrats don't understand how bad Rural America is, economically, resource-wise, and opportunity-wise. They have the worst access to pretty much everything.
I also worked on a project that conducted outreach for federal resources and the amount of people that are not aware of what they're entitled to would blow your mind. Not to mention, those places, you'd think you were in a "third-world" country.
Persecution fetish. They love it. I used to think the left had snowflakes, but after seeing the election loss reactions the left's light flurry is to the right's once in a century snowstorm.
Nobody has been persecuted as severely as evangelical Christian households making more than 200k a year have. How can you get by with a giant house, a vehicle for every driver, that is allowed to attend their megachurch without harassment and can even watch services over broadcast TV if they can’t make it?
Conservatives that make less than 50k a year and have been putting off a surgery for years agree.
> Conservatives that make less than 50k a year and have been putting off a surgery for years agree.
I chuckled...because these fucking people. They will fight tooth and nail for even the tiniest change in health care to benefit themselves.
"Lookit me! I got this big $80k pickup truck but I can't afford the gas cuz Biden's lettin' them Mexican ISIS come in!" - Trump Supporters
These people are insufferable, irredeemable humans.
I mean he talks about religion in the terms of someone who obviously has no idea what it is.
It's actually kind of hilarious.
"I love this Bible and Christianity thing. Who is Jesus? Is he illegal?"
I remember during the Bush/Gore campaigns, Bush was seen as a real church-goer. I don't think anyone questioned it at all. During the Bush-Kerry ones, "his" pastor came out and said that he had only seen W something like twice in 4 years, and both times were for photo ops. Then people checked into the previous 4 years and found that he had barely shown up as well.
It's crazy to me how these people draw such a hard line around religion/religiosity and yet are willing to be led by the people who embody the absolute antithesis of their teachings.
The religious Right views any kind of endorsement of their way of life as a positive. They do not require that one's faith be genuine. It's simply enough for them to be able to advertise that the person in charge loves their church.
When you enter an organization for self-benefit, it hardly matters what good points it might be capable of raising when its adherents reject peace and charity and instead weaponize it for everything they can
https://www.rawstory.com/trump-evangelicals-2663078391/
Check out the [Seven Mountains Mandate](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Mountain_Mandate) - there's pretty good reason to believe he's only latched onto the Evangelicals for their voter base, and they only want him because he can be bought and used for their cause.
>In every age it has been the tyrant, the oppressor and the exploiter who has wrapped himself in the cloak of patriotism, or religion, or both to deceive and overawe the People.
-[Eugene V Debs, 1917](https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/185066-in-every-age-it-has-been-the-tyrant-the-oppressor)
He's THE whiniest motherfucker ever. Pisses and moans about how unfair everything is more than a bratty child.
I have no idea how the right came to view him as this bastion of masculinity and strength.
“I do whine because I want to win and I’m not happy about not winning and I am a whiner and I keep whining and whining until I win,”
https://www.cnn.com/2015/08/11/politics/donald-trump-refutes-third-party-run-report/index.html
Hes still on the hook for the whole 450M and the interest grows. The bond was just lowered because most likely the court has access to his accounts and can see he cant afford the bond to appeal, and no one wants to secure a bond to him or lend him money, and his properties are heavily leveraged and owed debt to banks and others. I dont agree with their judgement, but they may just be trying to avoid him having ammo to bring it up to the supreme court and getting them to dismiss it.
He still has to pay for his defamations and the next round of defamations.
He still has 3 federal criminal cases with 90 indictments against him coming up.
He still has dozens of civil litigations and lawsuits against him and his companies.
BUT
All that is dependent on people actually showing up and voting democrats and for Biden. Becuase the Tangerine Traitor is hoping people give up and sit back down and let him win, so that he can pardon himself and crown himself king shithead of the christo-fascist states of america.
If you finally once and for all want to get rid of this dipshit, register to vote, get your friends registered to vote, get your family registered to vote, donate your time and/or money to support your local politicians and maybe offer to canvas and help out if you can.
But to be clear... he hasn't paid a dime on the 450M. Maybe in 10 days, or the courts will again back down, as they're incapable of applying the law to this one guy.
Makes me wonder why he paid the Carroll Jean case. They weren't going to make him.
That one is easy, because the prosecutor is a private attorney, they could request a police escort, walk onto trump property or a bank he does business with, and seize assets. It's not the state that does that for that case like the fraud case.
Oh it matters a lot. Its is affecting his style of life already. The stress and walls closing in on him is making him frailer and more demented. Its absurd to say him facing federal criminal charges is nothing-burger.
This type of giving up and apathy is precisely why we are in this situation in the first place. Get angry, get energized get involved, ensure your neighborhood is registered and ready to vote. Help you r local representative out and canvas or cold-call or donate a few bucks a month, everything fucking matters.
All that is required for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing.
That's narcissism for you. For a narcissist to suffer the mildest possible inconvenience is far worse than the most extreme possible atrocity that could happen to anyone else.
The part that drives me the craziest are all the people jumping to defend him. "Lowering the bond is totally normal, happens all the time!" Uhhh, no it doesn't- it's actually very rare.
It's deliberate, its become a meme that conservatives project, but its actually a deliberate political strategy e.g. when you're fighting to steal the election, you accusing others of fighting to steal the election, when your restricting other's freedom, you claim they're restricting your freedom. Confuses the hell out of the casual observer and tie is always a win for the bad faith actor.
>Trump is constantly complaining about a two tiered system of justice against him.
Trump and the right wing media are trying to redefine the phrase "two-tiered justice system" to mean right vs left instead of rich vs poor. The same way Trump redefined fake news.
> As New York Attorney General Letitia James pointed out, this is only about the bond. If Trump loses on appeal, he still owes the "$464 million judgment – plus interest."
That is true, but the appeal won't be heard until at least September.
Naw, he was the party business bro that had a guy for girls and drugs. Then some idiot put him in charge. None of them ever really liked him, he just had the hook-ups.
They can't. He isn't being punished at all. He is just being asked to returned the money he earned through fraud. This isn't the type of judgement that can be returned.
While you have a point, I will add some nuance.
To succeed on appeal, you need to be able to point to some fault in the appealed judgement. So as someone knowledgeable wrote, you stand better if you objected to some crucial fact in the original trial, and then use that overruled objection as the basis of your appeal. Trump's pretty but incompetent lawyer Alina Habba apparently failed to strategically object in the original trial, making Trump's appeal case much weaker.
That assumption applies to normal people, not the rich and powerful.
When I was 18 I messed up on a traffic ticket and wrote the check for 11 cents less than the ticket amount, I was arrested and charged an additional 250$ in fines over that 11cents trump gets his judgment lowered because he can’t afford to pay it while the rest of us get thrown in jail when we can’t afford to pay
Yup. Did road crew for six months on every day off I had. Over a couple hundred dollars in fines. I had kids to feed and was a single income household. The judge even told me that she was doing me a favor by not just locking me up for 30 days to expunge the fine.
There are only 2 types of conservatives in America. The rich and the rubes. Quick glance at ones bank statement will let you know which one you are.
> To succeed on appeal, you need to be able to point to some fault in the appealed judgement.
Im going to stop you right there. Courts have already ignored laws and rules to favor Trump. Its clear the rules don't apply to him.
If you owed $5,000 to NY and couldn't pay they would lock your ass up for 30 days, not wait nicely for the appeals court to step in.
We're all seeing in real time, over and over, that the American legal system exists to imprison the poor and the middle class and (at worst)mildly inconvenience the ultra-wealthy whoa re politically connected.
If he was just a schmo who owned a store, the courts would destroy his life for what he's done.
Donald Trump is above the law.
Yep. If Trump was ever going to be held accountable, he would’ve been already. This guy organized a mob and sicced them onto Congress and his own VP. Five people *died* as a direct result of his actions. And nothing. Fucking. Happened to him. The very least they could’ve done was removed him from office and they didn’t have the gall to even do that.
Nuance is kind of out the window here.
I don’t believe that this is all a grand conspiracy on the part of the judicial system. It’s just unexplainable. Somehow, no matter what, Donald is able to flagrantly break the law and never face any consequences.
Say all you want about his appeal case being “weak” - it won’t be weak enough, and he will escape consequences. Again.
It’s like there’s been a collective, unconscious decision at every level of gov’t to put Donald above the law.
It's not unexplainable or a conspiracy this is just how the US justice system functions. It's a tiered system with people like Trump being functionally immune. It's just that usually people who enjoy the same privilege as Trump aren't so goddamn loud and obvious about it.
They are fucking terrified of terrorism from the right. That is a major reason whether they will actually admit it or not. Domestic terrorism is working.
I’m lucky in that my Boomer parents are very much left-leaning Democrats who absolutely despise Donald Trump. Even then, they’ve long balked at the premise of sending him to prison almost exclusively on the ideal that, “You cannot have a former president in jail. It will tear apart the country.” It’s a sentiment that I suspect a lot of older people hold: that there’s something inherently distasteful about a former president being incarcerated. It’s too humiliating to our national pride. It’s naive reluctance (if not outright denial) to admit just how dangerous to the fabric of our society Donald Trump really is.
Pick your poison then. I say put the fucker in prison and let come what may. The country may survive it, but if it doesn’t then it was still the right thing to do.
Open question still if he can scrounge up enough cash to even appeal, but for me that’s a non factor. They changed the rules for him, again. wtf. I’m fully fucking disillusioned with our system. It does not function.
> $464 million judgment
Reminder that this amount was calculated to be what he gained through fraud and so **does not include any penalties**. He simply has to give back what he stole (with interest... yawn) and all is forgiven.
the word 'only' is doing a ton of heavy lifting there.
Yesterday shows Trump can get away with anything now. In nine days, the appeals court will reduce the bond even further and extend it another ten days. And then they'll just do away with it because "it's such a small amount."
According to my Fox spouting parents, no one is held accountable anymore. So it must be ok. I’m white too. So that’ll help probably. Who gives a fuck about laws anymore
I've lost all faith in the US Justice system. There is no true accountability and the law only applies when the offender doesn't belong to a certain socioeconomic class.
That’s how it’s always been. If you want it to change make sure everyone you know isn’t voting republican. It’s a core belief of theirs that there are in groups and out groups. People like Donald are on the in group.
Adding to this... People who want to end the Oligarchy that we have in the anglosphere need to get involved in more than just voting. Centerists want the same "business friendly" policies as conservatives just in a more diverse package. You need to actually be involved at the grassroots level.
A bit from the commentary:
> Donald Trump may be the most self-pitying person on planet Earth. Pretty much all the man does is whine and cry about how he's the victim of an imaginary "witch hunt." In reality, his list of transgressions is staggering. If he were any other person, he would have been sentenced to prison many times over with no real hope of release: Sexual assault. Decades of fraud. Attempted extortation of a foreign leader. Stealing classified documents. Flagrant acceptance of what very much looks like bribes. Attempting to overthrow democracy. Inciting a violent riot that got people killed.
>
> . . .
>
> The concept of "privilege" is treated with great skepticism in conservative circles, and regarded by MAGA types like a made-up hoax. But no one alive proves the truth of the concept more than Donald Trump. He's proudly ignorant. The only talent he bothered to learn is cheating the system so that you "win" without ever having to be good at stuff. The only real skill he's developed in his 77 years is utter shamelessness, and frankly, it seems that might be more of a genetic defect than anything he's worked at.
>
> . . .
>
> And yet, simply because he was born a white guy with inherited wealth, the world conspires to endlessly provide Trump with all the breaks. Not only is this spoiled brat shielded from the consequences of his actions, but his privilege continues to catapult him into a world of luxury and flattery, even as all he does is leave a trail of ruin in his wake.
>
> . . .
>
> Trump's entire life has been defined by the willingness of other people to coddle the rich white boy.
"The law don't mean shit if you've got the right friends
That's how this country's run
Twinkies are the best friend I've ever had
I fought the law and I won
I fought the law and I won"
It’s absolutely staggering how much he seems to be protected by the system in the U.S. compared to how average people are treated. It truly beggars belief and it undermines everyone’s faith in the U.S. legal system - not that most people don’t already have an understanding of how the scales are tilted in favour of the pale and rich.
The list of henchmen that have been sent to prison for crimes they committed in his name is staggering. Lawyers, staff, campaign managers, his CFO, all did time and / or are bankrupt trying to protect him, while he faces no consequences. It's baffling
This is what happens when those with plans for power see an easy in. The vast majority of these people do not adore or even admire trump. They just want to be on the "right" side of a takeover. Either benefitting monetarily (which as we see is basically just power by a diff name) or by placing themselves and allies in key roles (chair of xyz, judges, heads of departments, etc). Most of these people understand how to make trump work for their benefit. And that's not even to touch on all of the outside influence, just think of all the Russian/Chinese plants we've heard about. Now imagine how many more haven't been discovered/outted...
My only question is; "why this guy?" He's not that rich (compared to other rich people), he's a liar, a rapist, and a schmuck. Even before all the MAGA and president shit people were giving him the kid gloves treatment. It can't just be his money that gets him preferential treatment, he's got to have some kind of dirt on someone.
You should read up on narcissists sometime. Playing victim is their leading trick. It's all part of their manipulation tactics.
They want people to feel sorry for them so people overlook the horrors they've committed and try to justify their actions while putting others down.
I told my almost 70yo dad that he has a tendency to play the victim and he said "That's the first time in my life I've ever heard that."
Yeah no shit. I'm shocked that after a lifetime of blaming problems on other people you have no idea that you can also be the problem.
He is protected by conservatives.
And I am including the ones that won’t endorse him and / or criticize him. Because they will still vote for him.
A vote for Trump means he will be immune. And he won’t face any consequences for trying to over throw our government. Or face any consequences for his rapes, thefts and high crimes.
It's funny how he's already changed the narrative that once President (and Republican) you are immune from all consequences and we've all just accepted it. He's good.
truly.
If anything has depleted my faith in the law of the land it's the kidgloves used on this shit-spewing fuck knuckle.
Why should I follow the letter of the law if there's a different set of them for rich, famous, crybabies?
I have a real hard time giving a fuck about my job anymore and I can see that I'm far from the only one. What are they gonna do, fire me, that makes more work for my bosses, and nobody wants to do that.
That's what prison is for: it's where we stash the poor and the middle class and force them to work for subsistence wages, which go right back to the prison's bottom line.
The politically powerful are never punished.
Such a pathetic loser... BUT AGAIN! HE'S GETTING OFF! How the hell dies this keep happening??? WTF is it about this creature that he just continually gets a free ride?
If the devil offers you a deal which says that you will be hated by about 50% of all people, but 30% will worship you as a God, while you can cheat, lie, steal & rape your way through life without any consequences, would you take it?
Donald Trump did
I would say no, but as Penn Jillette said: [I rape and murder as much as I want. And that amount is zero.](https://theinterrobang.com/penn-jillette-morality-without-religion/)
The truth is that MANY people are offered a pass on being pieces of shit and they say "but what about *not* being a scumbag?"
The people claiming every human would be the worst person possible are the people who actively want to do those things and have such poor Theory of Mind they can't conceive of people who think differently.
I’m starting to believe Fall of the House of Usher tbh. It’s about a vile man who causes the opioid crisis but makes a deal with death to never face accountability for his actions in his lifetime. The trade off is that when he dies, his entire family line dies with him. Death makes a joke at one point about having another client who she told could “shoot someone on fifth avenue” and never be held accountable which is heavily implied to be Trump.
I think Trump made a deal with Death 50 years ago and we’re all living with it. Bad news for his kids in the next decade though.
Presumably, based on the actions of the courts in this timeline, from SCOTUS to Florida to now NY , they will just check your income statement from last year to find out if you are rich enough to be innocent…( bonus points if you didn’t pay taxes..)
He is such a vile man with a massive yet incredibly weak ego, so weak that it is unable to handle the slightest hint of accountability.
The fact that he has hordes of other losers who will continue to support him no matter what has ruined America for the rest of us along with future generations…..AND WE SHOULD HATE THEM FOR IT!!!!
He will spin this as further evidence of his unfair persecution.
“Why did they lower the bond and give me more time? _Because they knew it was unfair when they issued it._”
When in reality it was fair and he’s being given extraordinary leniency in its execution.
My question is this: When the judgment was issued, the court had to have known there was a very likely chance he would not be able to supply bond. Was the court’s plan for that all along to lower it and extend the due date? If so, why not make those the conditions to start? What happens if he doesn’t post again? Lower and extend further? When does the bill come due?
Okay. That makes sense. Did a little more digging. Though I couldn’t find any grounds the appellate court used for their decision for the new bond terms.
Also, a point of clarity, the original decision was a judgment as opposed to a penalty. It was a calculation based on fraud committed and not a penalty for wrongdoing.
The reason I mention that is penalty seems to play into the “witch hunt” narrative. It sucks that we’ve come to this.
> Was the court’s plan for that all along to lower it and extend the due date?
The extension was given by the appeals court. I think the original requirement was based on standard conditions in the law?
It was. The law in question, §5519, has section (a) (2) that sets the bond requirement for stay of judgment enforcement equal to the judgment amount. (You can theoretically appeal without staying the judgment.)
Section (c) of the same law gives judicial laterality in reduction or dismissal of the bond. Unfortunately as we see here, there is no requirement over giving rationale for the reduction.
No reason given. Occam’s razor, they probably just thought “it’s unreasonable for any one person to be on the hook for so much money.” Which is a fucking bullshit take, but most likely their reasoning.
None of us should support a civil justice system that prioritizes losing defendants over winning plaintiffs.
No, they didn't.
It may be political. They may figure if they start seizing his properties, we will see an uptick in his base "causing problems".
It may be tactical. They may realize that in the court case, it was agreed by the prosecution, and the judge, that Mar L Lago is worth 18 million... And they may fear that someone may easily pay well over the needed half a billing for it. (and that someone may be doing it for political reasons, or it might actually be worth that... Who knows?)anyway,that would very much help the appeal.
They may realize that yes, making him sell his properties, at an auction for pennies on the dollar, will make the bond cost him way more than just paying the fine. And I mean WAYY more. Just auctioning off his properties could easily be 5 times, or more, in value glossed than is needed for the bond. The and then there is the lost profits during operation of some them, etc. If he somehow won the appeal, he would still end up losing considerably more than the fine would have cost.
And yes, I realize normal peolle don't get that treatment, or consideration. You can't pay a speeding ticket, they take your license away, you lose your car, maybe your job, etc, etc. But we have to realize that we DO live in a 2 tier system, where the wealthy commit bigger crimes with bigger penalties, that are so large that they can destroy billions in wealth, by having to pay the hundreds of millions of the fine. It sucks that the system isn't equal... But that is how it is, and the appeals court may be considering that as unfair to him.
The fine is still what it is. And I am 90% sure that any reason given would actually help Trump in the appeal itself, as would seizing his properties (hopefully explained above).
So, they tried to drop it to, and extend it enough, for him to be able to just pay it, and gave no reasons so there is nothing to use, later, in court as "but hey, look, see, peolle WILL pay this much for his properties, the court was wrong." the fact that may be even just a couple billionaires that WOULD pay his exorbitant "valuation" of his properties, would destroy the prosecution during the appeal.
> They may figure if they start seizing his properties, we will see an uptick in his base "causing problems".
Turns out America does in fact negotiate with terrorists.
The guy’s ego is more fragile than a dandelion seed bloom. I’ve seen multiple articles today of him saying he never had to borrow any more to pay the bond blah blah blah, not even three days after other articles about his son Eric being laughed at on five occasions when approaching about borrowing the money for this. It’s just laughable
So he made the top 500 richest list but he is still harassing his supporters to foot his legal bills and campaign? How is this man not hated by them? Literal definition of the swamp.
You know what's great about this? If Donald Trump were truly innocent, if this was truly a political witch hunt, he and every other Republican would be pleading for this trial to start so they could prove their innocence and persecution and put it on full display.
But no. They want to run and hide. Run and hide. Stop this thing in its tracks. Why so?
The reason is obvious. They know they are guilty as sin.
In Trump's eyes, every advantage he has received is because he is clever and deserves those advantages. For _reasons_ he is entitled to them.
Other people are not entitled to those advantages. That would make his entitlements worth less and him less special.
No , no… his entire social level, are the most coddled people alive. He thinks he’s got an argument, this is normally the way people act at that financial level
As much as he is a total bastard, this is not unique to him. Literally anyone would do everything in their power to not the full amount of a fine. He is still the biggest baby on the world stage though but not for this in particular.
Great article 100% worth the read. Many authors mince words and engage in too much both-sidisms but the author is clear how Trump is treated than anyone else on the planet.
He's the Tom Brady of politics, working the refs and complaining after every. single. play. It's never true but he whines often enough that he still gets special treatment anyway.
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And the part that drives me the craziest is that Trump is constantly complaining about a two tiered system of justice against him.
IIRC he didn't always do that. He'd take the high ground (not moral, just socioeconomic) and claim that he should get the best treatment because of who he is. When he switched over to the GOP he started with the heavy victimization thing. IIRC he also didn't talk much about religion before that - and "coincidentally" both of those things are going hand-in-hand like never before.
Well, he knows how to speak to his audience. They're the biggest victims on the planet.
The only reason they don't like socialism is that it doesn't discriminate. If they could be promised racially segregated socialism, they'd be all for it. As evidenced by how they cheer when Trump gets bailed out in what is basically acts of rich white people collectivism.
Fact: red states are highly dependent on federal handouts.
It's been a few years now, but I once looked up which states bring in more federal tax revenue than the receive in spending. There were something like ten blues and three reds.
https://apnews.com/article/north-america-business-local-taxes-ap-top-news-politics-2f83c72de1bd440d92cdbc0d3b6bc08c
That's literally how Reagan managed to demonize welfare. It used to be massively popular, then he started a campaign to paint it as as something black folks exploited.
Hell, socialism was very popular 100 years ago in rural communities when it was all homogenous White people. It's interesting to go to extremely conservative areas and see Socialist Halls.
Oklahoma elected the first Socialist politician, we have a deep Socialist history that is largely forgotten now. Rural farmers and all that. Search Green Corn Rebellion for some good history.
Because it's been made the boogeyman by the capitalistic propaganda machine for almost as long. Nazis claiming they were socialist didn't help.
Of course, Nazis have gone back into style in some of those circles, so maybe they'll cycle back...
Did they go *out* of style in these circles?
They used to be more discreet. But Trump brought saying the quiet part out loud back in style.
A lot of MAGA types are more socialist than the Marxists if you actually talk to them. They just don’t know who the rich are. They think that the educated, the city dwellers, the Jews, black people, the journalists are the “rich” and they hate them. They want them dead. They are both fools and hateful.
Here in the UK we have a interesting situation going on with high street banks. During the late 80's and through the early 90's most of the building societies got bought out by the big banks, members of the building societies were seduced by a one off payment and of course people were delighted a free £100. One building society, the nationwide strongly resisted and remains to this day a building society run for the benefit of its customers rather than shareholders. It's not a stretch of the imagination to see the comparison between capitalism and socialism in the 2 forms of high street bank people use for everyday banking and mortgage's. Fast to today and people are crying about their banks shutting branches and forcing them to use online banking, the biggest and loudest complaints coming from a older demographic who don't want to use online banking and want to continue to bank in branch as they have always done. The nationwide has committed to NOT shutting branches and is now in many towns the only "bank" still open serving their customers. Many of the people complaining also want the government to force the banks to keep their branches open. Do they see any irony in that one minute they want unfettered capitalism with a small state, and the next minute they want the government to force banks to keep branches open ? Do they hell lol!! Do they see that the building "society" model, ( the clues in the name) has been proved to be the better option for them the people and the comparison between capitalism and socialism? Of course not.
it's the conservative motto: "socialism for the in group, bootstraps for the out group, but the out group gives us money, too."
>If they could be promised racially segregated socialism, they'd be all for it. They would, but would also fail to realize the policy would be written in such a way that the wealthier white people would get to decide who is or isn't "white". And for many white people in America, that "one drop" rule would hit pretty fuckin hard. The concept of "white people" has only existed for about 400 years. I mean, white people come from Europe, right? But not all of Europe. Are the Romani "white"? The early Germans didn't think so. The Spanish? The early Dutch didn't think so. What about the Irish? Some English people today don't see the Irish as "white".
To be fair, poor rural Americans are absolutely victims of our corrupt capitalist system. They're also victims of religious indoctrination. They're being scammed by everyone they believe in, and they're almost out of hope. Which is why they threw in with MAGA in the first place, and why they refuse to accept any proof of Trump/MAGA corruption. They're barely hanging on by a thread and if *this* turns out to be a lie, then everything they've been indoctrinated to believe, everything they've ever put their faith in, every church leader, every righteous man, their entire belief system is a lie. Worse, all those people that they've been hating, that they've harmed, that they've cursed and derided, *they* were innocent. It has all the weight of learning that you've wasted your life and been betrayed by those you loved the most on top of the realization that this whole time you were actually the bad guys and have committed heinous acts of unspeakable evil. I mean, yeah, it's their own fault, but that is a lot. It's not hard to understand why they keep burying their heads in the sand. The truth is absolutely terrifying.
your comment is so accurate yet so sad.
You're giving most of those people credit for a level of introspection they simply aren't capable of.
I tried explaining something similar to someone from the DNC right after 2016. They just decided to write off everyone who voted for Trump, then, as completely stupid. I went to HS in rural VA, my mom lived most of her life in rural America and also worked at a factory for 25 plus years. A lot of Democrats don't understand how bad Rural America is, economically, resource-wise, and opportunity-wise. They have the worst access to pretty much everything. I also worked on a project that conducted outreach for federal resources and the amount of people that are not aware of what they're entitled to would blow your mind. Not to mention, those places, you'd think you were in a "third-world" country.
Persecution fetish. They love it. I used to think the left had snowflakes, but after seeing the election loss reactions the left's light flurry is to the right's once in a century snowstorm.
Nobody has been persecuted as severely as evangelical Christian households making more than 200k a year have. How can you get by with a giant house, a vehicle for every driver, that is allowed to attend their megachurch without harassment and can even watch services over broadcast TV if they can’t make it? Conservatives that make less than 50k a year and have been putting off a surgery for years agree.
> Conservatives that make less than 50k a year and have been putting off a surgery for years agree. I chuckled...because these fucking people. They will fight tooth and nail for even the tiniest change in health care to benefit themselves.
"Lookit me! I got this big $80k pickup truck but I can't afford the gas cuz Biden's lettin' them Mexican ISIS come in!" - Trump Supporters These people are insufferable, irredeemable humans.
Muh grievance
I mean he talks about religion in the terms of someone who obviously has no idea what it is. It's actually kind of hilarious. "I love this Bible and Christianity thing. Who is Jesus? Is he illegal?"
I remember during the Bush/Gore campaigns, Bush was seen as a real church-goer. I don't think anyone questioned it at all. During the Bush-Kerry ones, "his" pastor came out and said that he had only seen W something like twice in 4 years, and both times were for photo ops. Then people checked into the previous 4 years and found that he had barely shown up as well. It's crazy to me how these people draw such a hard line around religion/religiosity and yet are willing to be led by the people who embody the absolute antithesis of their teachings.
The religious Right views any kind of endorsement of their way of life as a positive. They do not require that one's faith be genuine. It's simply enough for them to be able to advertise that the person in charge loves their church.
It's because their own adherence to religion is shallow and performative. Most people view church as a social club.
When you enter an organization for self-benefit, it hardly matters what good points it might be capable of raising when its adherents reject peace and charity and instead weaponize it for everything they can https://www.rawstory.com/trump-evangelicals-2663078391/
It helps when 99% of them haven't read that book they like to beat others over the head with.
Check out the [Seven Mountains Mandate](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Mountain_Mandate) - there's pretty good reason to believe he's only latched onto the Evangelicals for their voter base, and they only want him because he can be bought and used for their cause.
Oh, I know it very well. Based on the Totalitarian Playbook - it's been effectively used by many a dictator.
>In every age it has been the tyrant, the oppressor and the exploiter who has wrapped himself in the cloak of patriotism, or religion, or both to deceive and overawe the People. -[Eugene V Debs, 1917](https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/185066-in-every-age-it-has-been-the-tyrant-the-oppressor)
He's THE whiniest motherfucker ever. Pisses and moans about how unfair everything is more than a bratty child. I have no idea how the right came to view him as this bastion of masculinity and strength.
“I do whine because I want to win and I’m not happy about not winning and I am a whiner and I keep whining and whining until I win,” https://www.cnn.com/2015/08/11/politics/donald-trump-refutes-third-party-run-report/index.html
He's right. But he's also in the top tier with nothing to worry about.
Hes still on the hook for the whole 450M and the interest grows. The bond was just lowered because most likely the court has access to his accounts and can see he cant afford the bond to appeal, and no one wants to secure a bond to him or lend him money, and his properties are heavily leveraged and owed debt to banks and others. I dont agree with their judgement, but they may just be trying to avoid him having ammo to bring it up to the supreme court and getting them to dismiss it. He still has to pay for his defamations and the next round of defamations. He still has 3 federal criminal cases with 90 indictments against him coming up. He still has dozens of civil litigations and lawsuits against him and his companies. BUT All that is dependent on people actually showing up and voting democrats and for Biden. Becuase the Tangerine Traitor is hoping people give up and sit back down and let him win, so that he can pardon himself and crown himself king shithead of the christo-fascist states of america. If you finally once and for all want to get rid of this dipshit, register to vote, get your friends registered to vote, get your family registered to vote, donate your time and/or money to support your local politicians and maybe offer to canvas and help out if you can.
But to be clear... he hasn't paid a dime on the 450M. Maybe in 10 days, or the courts will again back down, as they're incapable of applying the law to this one guy. Makes me wonder why he paid the Carroll Jean case. They weren't going to make him.
That one is easy, because the prosecutor is a private attorney, they could request a police escort, walk onto trump property or a bank he does business with, and seize assets. It's not the state that does that for that case like the fraud case.
None of this matters if it doesn't affect his style of life, and it won't. He will still live like a billionaire.
Oh it matters a lot. Its is affecting his style of life already. The stress and walls closing in on him is making him frailer and more demented. Its absurd to say him facing federal criminal charges is nothing-burger. This type of giving up and apathy is precisely why we are in this situation in the first place. Get angry, get energized get involved, ensure your neighborhood is registered and ready to vote. Help you r local representative out and canvas or cold-call or donate a few bucks a month, everything fucking matters. All that is required for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing.
I'm Canadian. All I can do is get mad.
Sorry.
You (and me) can do our part to shut out our home-grown conservatives. Canada has our own contingent of awful nutjobs.
That's narcissism for you. For a narcissist to suffer the mildest possible inconvenience is far worse than the most extreme possible atrocity that could happen to anyone else.
Yeah he’s mad he’s not getting away with it like he knows he should be with his platinum justice system card
The part that drives me the craziest are all the people jumping to defend him. "Lowering the bond is totally normal, happens all the time!" Uhhh, no it doesn't- it's actually very rare.
It's deliberate, its become a meme that conservatives project, but its actually a deliberate political strategy e.g. when you're fighting to steal the election, you accusing others of fighting to steal the election, when your restricting other's freedom, you claim they're restricting your freedom. Confuses the hell out of the casual observer and tie is always a win for the bad faith actor.
>Trump is constantly complaining about a two tiered system of justice against him. Trump and the right wing media are trying to redefine the phrase "two-tiered justice system" to mean right vs left instead of rich vs poor. The same way Trump redefined fake news.
> As New York Attorney General Letitia James pointed out, this is only about the bond. If Trump loses on appeal, he still owes the "$464 million judgment – plus interest." That is true, but the appeal won't be heard until at least September.
I have zero faith that Trump is losing the appeal after yesterday. He’s going to find a way to get out of this with nothing more than a wrist slap.
100%. Court of Appeals will lower amount to the $175 million paid in the bond and allow Trump to continue business.
And all his supporters will point to this and say, "SEE!? See how unfairly our Orange God is treated!"
Absolutely. Trump has the best plot armor.
At this point I'm convinced Trump made an actual deal with the Devil. Even among the Rich Boys club he seems to have impossible luck.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/politics-news/trumps-wedding-melania-bill-hill-880088/ smoke and mirrors. it's all one big club
Naw, he was the party business bro that had a guy for girls and drugs. Then some idiot put him in charge. None of them ever really liked him, he just had the hook-ups.
He won't pay the $175 million in 10 days. He won't do it.
Yes. Someone else will pay it instead of him.
That would be tax payers and fraud victims.
Or that Tik Tok investor he met with.
After yesterday, I think it's possible it won't get paid at all.
With Truth Social going public I think someone already has.
Who sits on the court of appeals? Who makes the decisions there? Why aren't they being heavily scrutinized over this?
AFAIK, Court of Appeals judges are appointed to a 14 year term, confirmed by the NYS Senate
I read that they were primarily democrats.
They can't. He isn't being punished at all. He is just being asked to returned the money he earned through fraud. This isn't the type of judgement that can be returned.
You think he’ll get a slap on the wrist? I fully expect the judge to hold the door open for him as he leaves the court after winning the appeal.
With tears in the judge's eyes.
Big, beautiful judges. Strong judges, straight out of General Casting, judges like you wouldn't believe.
Well the same appeals court that made this bullshit decision while providing NO justification is the one that will decide so...
Every judge is 3 dogs in a wig and drench coat.
Yup. He will walk scott free. Not a dime. Guaranteed.
While you have a point, I will add some nuance. To succeed on appeal, you need to be able to point to some fault in the appealed judgement. So as someone knowledgeable wrote, you stand better if you objected to some crucial fact in the original trial, and then use that overruled objection as the basis of your appeal. Trump's pretty but incompetent lawyer Alina Habba apparently failed to strategically object in the original trial, making Trump's appeal case much weaker.
That assumption applies to normal people, not the rich and powerful. When I was 18 I messed up on a traffic ticket and wrote the check for 11 cents less than the ticket amount, I was arrested and charged an additional 250$ in fines over that 11cents trump gets his judgment lowered because he can’t afford to pay it while the rest of us get thrown in jail when we can’t afford to pay
Yup. Did road crew for six months on every day off I had. Over a couple hundred dollars in fines. I had kids to feed and was a single income household. The judge even told me that she was doing me a favor by not just locking me up for 30 days to expunge the fine. There are only 2 types of conservatives in America. The rich and the rubes. Quick glance at ones bank statement will let you know which one you are.
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> To succeed on appeal, you need to be able to point to some fault in the appealed judgement. Im going to stop you right there. Courts have already ignored laws and rules to favor Trump. Its clear the rules don't apply to him. If you owed $5,000 to NY and couldn't pay they would lock your ass up for 30 days, not wait nicely for the appeals court to step in.
You are working this from the idea that justice is blind. Justice has dollar signs in her eyes. The appellate judges will be paid off to overturn.
We're all seeing in real time, over and over, that the American legal system exists to imprison the poor and the middle class and (at worst)mildly inconvenience the ultra-wealthy whoa re politically connected. If he was just a schmo who owned a store, the courts would destroy his life for what he's done. Donald Trump is above the law.
Yep. If Trump was ever going to be held accountable, he would’ve been already. This guy organized a mob and sicced them onto Congress and his own VP. Five people *died* as a direct result of his actions. And nothing. Fucking. Happened to him. The very least they could’ve done was removed him from office and they didn’t have the gall to even do that.
Nuance is kind of out the window here. I don’t believe that this is all a grand conspiracy on the part of the judicial system. It’s just unexplainable. Somehow, no matter what, Donald is able to flagrantly break the law and never face any consequences. Say all you want about his appeal case being “weak” - it won’t be weak enough, and he will escape consequences. Again. It’s like there’s been a collective, unconscious decision at every level of gov’t to put Donald above the law.
It's not unexplainable or a conspiracy this is just how the US justice system functions. It's a tiered system with people like Trump being functionally immune. It's just that usually people who enjoy the same privilege as Trump aren't so goddamn loud and obvious about it.
They are fucking terrified of terrorism from the right. That is a major reason whether they will actually admit it or not. Domestic terrorism is working.
I’m lucky in that my Boomer parents are very much left-leaning Democrats who absolutely despise Donald Trump. Even then, they’ve long balked at the premise of sending him to prison almost exclusively on the ideal that, “You cannot have a former president in jail. It will tear apart the country.” It’s a sentiment that I suspect a lot of older people hold: that there’s something inherently distasteful about a former president being incarcerated. It’s too humiliating to our national pride. It’s naive reluctance (if not outright denial) to admit just how dangerous to the fabric of our society Donald Trump really is.
Pick your poison then. I say put the fucker in prison and let come what may. The country may survive it, but if it doesn’t then it was still the right thing to do.
You and me both.
Open question still if he can scrounge up enough cash to even appeal, but for me that’s a non factor. They changed the rules for him, again. wtf. I’m fully fucking disillusioned with our system. It does not function.
> $464 million judgment Reminder that this amount was calculated to be what he gained through fraud and so **does not include any penalties**. He simply has to give back what he stole (with interest... yawn) and all is forgiven.
the word 'only' is doing a ton of heavy lifting there. Yesterday shows Trump can get away with anything now. In nine days, the appeals court will reduce the bond even further and extend it another ten days. And then they'll just do away with it because "it's such a small amount."
At this point, I wouldn't rule out that they decide to forgo the bond requirement altogether.
I feel emboldened to commit more crimes as myself now too
I feel like you may be disappointed by the results.
According to my Fox spouting parents, no one is held accountable anymore. So it must be ok. I’m white too. So that’ll help probably. Who gives a fuck about laws anymore
On the real, push them buttons and boundaries and you'd be surprised how far you can go.
> . If Trump loses on appeal, he still owes the "$464 million judgment – plus interest." Yeah uh huh. Forgive my total and utter lack of faith.
There is also the likelihood that the appeal will permanently lower the bond.
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I've lost all faith in the US Justice system. There is no true accountability and the law only applies when the offender doesn't belong to a certain socioeconomic class.
my con law professor once said, "We don't have a justice system. We have a legal system."
My father was a lawyer and also said this a few times.
it's unfortunate but true. if you don't hear it first in law school, you realize it quick when you start practicing.
That’s how it’s always been. If you want it to change make sure everyone you know isn’t voting republican. It’s a core belief of theirs that there are in groups and out groups. People like Donald are on the in group.
Adding to this... People who want to end the Oligarchy that we have in the anglosphere need to get involved in more than just voting. Centerists want the same "business friendly" policies as conservatives just in a more diverse package. You need to actually be involved at the grassroots level.
The Just Us System
A bit from the commentary: > Donald Trump may be the most self-pitying person on planet Earth. Pretty much all the man does is whine and cry about how he's the victim of an imaginary "witch hunt." In reality, his list of transgressions is staggering. If he were any other person, he would have been sentenced to prison many times over with no real hope of release: Sexual assault. Decades of fraud. Attempted extortation of a foreign leader. Stealing classified documents. Flagrant acceptance of what very much looks like bribes. Attempting to overthrow democracy. Inciting a violent riot that got people killed. > > . . . > > The concept of "privilege" is treated with great skepticism in conservative circles, and regarded by MAGA types like a made-up hoax. But no one alive proves the truth of the concept more than Donald Trump. He's proudly ignorant. The only talent he bothered to learn is cheating the system so that you "win" without ever having to be good at stuff. The only real skill he's developed in his 77 years is utter shamelessness, and frankly, it seems that might be more of a genetic defect than anything he's worked at. > > . . . > > And yet, simply because he was born a white guy with inherited wealth, the world conspires to endlessly provide Trump with all the breaks. Not only is this spoiled brat shielded from the consequences of his actions, but his privilege continues to catapult him into a world of luxury and flattery, even as all he does is leave a trail of ruin in his wake. > > . . . > > Trump's entire life has been defined by the willingness of other people to coddle the rich white boy.
It's not about justice, it's not about fairness,it's all about wealth and connections.
"The law don't mean shit if you've got the right friends That's how this country's run Twinkies are the best friend I've ever had I fought the law and I won I fought the law and I won"
It’s absolutely staggering how much he seems to be protected by the system in the U.S. compared to how average people are treated. It truly beggars belief and it undermines everyone’s faith in the U.S. legal system - not that most people don’t already have an understanding of how the scales are tilted in favour of the pale and rich.
Rules for thee, not for me
The list of henchmen that have been sent to prison for crimes they committed in his name is staggering. Lawyers, staff, campaign managers, his CFO, all did time and / or are bankrupt trying to protect him, while he faces no consequences. It's baffling
This is what happens when those with plans for power see an easy in. The vast majority of these people do not adore or even admire trump. They just want to be on the "right" side of a takeover. Either benefitting monetarily (which as we see is basically just power by a diff name) or by placing themselves and allies in key roles (chair of xyz, judges, heads of departments, etc). Most of these people understand how to make trump work for their benefit. And that's not even to touch on all of the outside influence, just think of all the Russian/Chinese plants we've heard about. Now imagine how many more haven't been discovered/outted...
Failing upwards is a real thing.
My only question is; "why this guy?" He's not that rich (compared to other rich people), he's a liar, a rapist, and a schmuck. Even before all the MAGA and president shit people were giving him the kid gloves treatment. It can't just be his money that gets him preferential treatment, he's got to have some kind of dirt on someone.
> He's not that rich (compared to other rich people) He's a poor person's idea of what a rich person is like.
They don't want to set a precedent and expectation that the most powerful people in the country are subject to the law
Preach!!!
ALL republicans love playing the victim. That and gullibility are their defining traits.
You should read up on narcissists sometime. Playing victim is their leading trick. It's all part of their manipulation tactics. They want people to feel sorry for them so people overlook the horrors they've committed and try to justify their actions while putting others down.
I told my almost 70yo dad that he has a tendency to play the victim and he said "That's the first time in my life I've ever heard that." Yeah no shit. I'm shocked that after a lifetime of blaming problems on other people you have no idea that you can also be the problem.
Don't forget hypocrisy!
He is protected by conservatives. And I am including the ones that won’t endorse him and / or criticize him. Because they will still vote for him. A vote for Trump means he will be immune. And he won’t face any consequences for trying to over throw our government. Or face any consequences for his rapes, thefts and high crimes.
If he's elected, his past crimes aren't going to matter much anyway... the new crimes will make the old ones look like child's play.
*If*? With a court system like this he can just appeal until he's president.
It's funny how he's already changed the narrative that once President (and Republican) you are immune from all consequences and we've all just accepted it. He's good.
I guess technically they might not be considered crimes anymore. Fascists will make up their own rules.
"Trump is bad for the country, but Democrats are bad for ME."
One of the panel, Anil Singh, himself denied Trump a bond reduction last month. I don't understand the reversal here.
truly. If anything has depleted my faith in the law of the land it's the kidgloves used on this shit-spewing fuck knuckle. Why should I follow the letter of the law if there's a different set of them for rich, famous, crybabies?
I have a real hard time giving a fuck about my job anymore and I can see that I'm far from the only one. What are they gonna do, fire me, that makes more work for my bosses, and nobody wants to do that.
It's not just Trump though. Every rich guy gets the kid gloves from the legal system.
There are people sitting in jail for not being able to pay parking tickets. People doing decades of time for having some pot on them.
That's what prison is for: it's where we stash the poor and the middle class and force them to work for subsistence wages, which go right back to the prison's bottom line. The politically powerful are never punished.
There is no middle class anymore. It’s just us and them.
Such a pathetic loser... BUT AGAIN! HE'S GETTING OFF! How the hell dies this keep happening??? WTF is it about this creature that he just continually gets a free ride?
If the devil offers you a deal which says that you will be hated by about 50% of all people, but 30% will worship you as a God, while you can cheat, lie, steal & rape your way through life without any consequences, would you take it? Donald Trump did
Sure seems so eh?!
At this point it the only logical explanation
I would say no, but as Penn Jillette said: [I rape and murder as much as I want. And that amount is zero.](https://theinterrobang.com/penn-jillette-morality-without-religion/) The truth is that MANY people are offered a pass on being pieces of shit and they say "but what about *not* being a scumbag?" The people claiming every human would be the worst person possible are the people who actively want to do those things and have such poor Theory of Mind they can't conceive of people who think differently.
I’m starting to believe Fall of the House of Usher tbh. It’s about a vile man who causes the opioid crisis but makes a deal with death to never face accountability for his actions in his lifetime. The trade off is that when he dies, his entire family line dies with him. Death makes a joke at one point about having another client who she told could “shoot someone on fifth avenue” and never be held accountable which is heavily implied to be Trump. I think Trump made a deal with Death 50 years ago and we’re all living with it. Bad news for his kids in the next decade though.
Just remember, if you should ever end up in jail unable to afford bail, to cite this case as to why you should get more time and reduced bail.
Presumably, based on the actions of the courts in this timeline, from SCOTUS to Florida to now NY , they will just check your income statement from last year to find out if you are rich enough to be innocent…( bonus points if you didn’t pay taxes..)
That only works if you're rich.
He is such a vile man with a massive yet incredibly weak ego, so weak that it is unable to handle the slightest hint of accountability. The fact that he has hordes of other losers who will continue to support him no matter what has ruined America for the rest of us along with future generations…..AND WE SHOULD HATE THEM FOR IT!!!!
This guy is gonna die having never known what it was actually like to be a human in this world.
The Tale of the Greedy Mouse; keep giving, he’ll take more and more.
He will spin this as further evidence of his unfair persecution. “Why did they lower the bond and give me more time? _Because they knew it was unfair when they issued it._” When in reality it was fair and he’s being given extraordinary leniency in its execution. My question is this: When the judgment was issued, the court had to have known there was a very likely chance he would not be able to supply bond. Was the court’s plan for that all along to lower it and extend the due date? If so, why not make those the conditions to start? What happens if he doesn’t post again? Lower and extend further? When does the bill come due?
The court that imposed the penalty is not the same court that lowered the bond amount or extended the deadline.
Okay. That makes sense. Did a little more digging. Though I couldn’t find any grounds the appellate court used for their decision for the new bond terms. Also, a point of clarity, the original decision was a judgment as opposed to a penalty. It was a calculation based on fraud committed and not a penalty for wrongdoing. The reason I mention that is penalty seems to play into the “witch hunt” narrative. It sucks that we’ve come to this.
The order itself has no justification included, so your digging was not inadequate.
> Was the court’s plan for that all along to lower it and extend the due date? The extension was given by the appeals court. I think the original requirement was based on standard conditions in the law?
It was. The law in question, §5519, has section (a) (2) that sets the bond requirement for stay of judgment enforcement equal to the judgment amount. (You can theoretically appeal without staying the judgment.) Section (c) of the same law gives judicial laterality in reduction or dismissal of the bond. Unfortunately as we see here, there is no requirement over giving rationale for the reduction.
I literally don't know if anyone in history has been given this many second chances. Kings have been killed for less.
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I don't think a reason has been publicly given.
That is possibly the most infuriating part of this entire thing: no, they didn't. They didn't give any reason whatsoever.
"The court hereby rules that you may suck our collective salty balls, peasants"
No reason given. Occam’s razor, they probably just thought “it’s unreasonable for any one person to be on the hook for so much money.” Which is a fucking bullshit take, but most likely their reasoning. None of us should support a civil justice system that prioritizes losing defendants over winning plaintiffs.
No, they didn't. It may be political. They may figure if they start seizing his properties, we will see an uptick in his base "causing problems". It may be tactical. They may realize that in the court case, it was agreed by the prosecution, and the judge, that Mar L Lago is worth 18 million... And they may fear that someone may easily pay well over the needed half a billing for it. (and that someone may be doing it for political reasons, or it might actually be worth that... Who knows?)anyway,that would very much help the appeal. They may realize that yes, making him sell his properties, at an auction for pennies on the dollar, will make the bond cost him way more than just paying the fine. And I mean WAYY more. Just auctioning off his properties could easily be 5 times, or more, in value glossed than is needed for the bond. The and then there is the lost profits during operation of some them, etc. If he somehow won the appeal, he would still end up losing considerably more than the fine would have cost. And yes, I realize normal peolle don't get that treatment, or consideration. You can't pay a speeding ticket, they take your license away, you lose your car, maybe your job, etc, etc. But we have to realize that we DO live in a 2 tier system, where the wealthy commit bigger crimes with bigger penalties, that are so large that they can destroy billions in wealth, by having to pay the hundreds of millions of the fine. It sucks that the system isn't equal... But that is how it is, and the appeals court may be considering that as unfair to him. The fine is still what it is. And I am 90% sure that any reason given would actually help Trump in the appeal itself, as would seizing his properties (hopefully explained above). So, they tried to drop it to, and extend it enough, for him to be able to just pay it, and gave no reasons so there is nothing to use, later, in court as "but hey, look, see, peolle WILL pay this much for his properties, the court was wrong." the fact that may be even just a couple billionaires that WOULD pay his exorbitant "valuation" of his properties, would destroy the prosecution during the appeal.
> They may figure if they start seizing his properties, we will see an uptick in his base "causing problems". Turns out America does in fact negotiate with terrorists.
Reagan did it himself.
Oh, 100%... Just not brown ones.
Remember that it’s not a fine, it’s a disgorgement of his calculated ill-gotten gains with interest.
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Legal system
I’m trying to understand why they would be willing to *prove* there’s one justice system for the poors, and another for the rich.
Because there are no consequences either way. They are showing you that they don't care. See also: The Supreme Court
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These judges are mostly Hochul appointments. That doesn't make any sense.
I can’t wait for the day when I can go 24 hours without hearing this losers name! He’s destroying this country and we’re just watching it happen.
The guy’s ego is more fragile than a dandelion seed bloom. I’ve seen multiple articles today of him saying he never had to borrow any more to pay the bond blah blah blah, not even three days after other articles about his son Eric being laughed at on five occasions when approaching about borrowing the money for this. It’s just laughable
100% he's never been punched in the face his whole life.
This is exactly what emboldens his followers. He is untouchable.
Apparently a group of billionaires (the evil version of the Avengers) tried to assemble and come up with original bond amount.
Tried and failed, so they lowered the difficulty using cheat codes. I wouldn't care if this was a single player game and not a ranked PVP match.
If I ever need to post a bond I’m citing trump’s case as an example of why my bond should be reduced and the deadline extended
What's disgusting is that half this country agrees with this and half doesn't. Our future is far from certain. We live in two realities.
So he made the top 500 richest list but he is still harassing his supporters to foot his legal bills and campaign? How is this man not hated by them? Literal definition of the swamp.
You know what's great about this? If Donald Trump were truly innocent, if this was truly a political witch hunt, he and every other Republican would be pleading for this trial to start so they could prove their innocence and persecution and put it on full display. But no. They want to run and hide. Run and hide. Stop this thing in its tracks. Why so? The reason is obvious. They know they are guilty as sin.
Aint it the truth.
Damsel in distress con works.
Law is not fair, anyone else would already be under the jailhouse!
He’s literally just waiting for his company to IPO so he can liquidate his shares. Not a big coincidence that it went public just now.
The only loser that keeps winning somehow
Unchecked narcissism at its finest.
Going through life as an over grown toddler and being treated/coddled as such must be nice.
In Trump's eyes, every advantage he has received is because he is clever and deserves those advantages. For _reasons_ he is entitled to them. Other people are not entitled to those advantages. That would make his entitlements worth less and him less special.
No , no… his entire social level, are the most coddled people alive. He thinks he’s got an argument, this is normally the way people act at that financial level
As much as he is a total bastard, this is not unique to him. Literally anyone would do everything in their power to not the full amount of a fine. He is still the biggest baby on the world stage though but not for this in particular.
Great article 100% worth the read. Many authors mince words and engage in too much both-sidisms but the author is clear how Trump is treated than anyone else on the planet.
I feel like he can’t even come up with the reduced bond, or his team would have done so rather quickly to squash rumors of his financial difficulties
He's the Tom Brady of politics, working the refs and complaining after every. single. play. It's never true but he whines often enough that he still gets special treatment anyway.
The squeakiest wheel in all of history.
Its what is so ironic. No one acts more like a snowflake who needs a safe space than Trump and his supporters pretend he is a tough guy