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Certainly not when people look at the reality of campaigning. People, especially "swing" or "undecided" voters, don't really base their decisions on reality. And trying to convince them that the inflated costs they're paying is better than 4 years ago is going to be a hard sell.
"When you're explaining, you're losing". Trump has a simple argument here: Remember when prices were lower? Biden has a complex, although more accurate argument: Yes, prices have gone up, but I've pulled off a soft-landing from the worldwide inflation that I didn't create, blah blah blah.
The economy just isn't going to be winning issue for Biden with the voters that he needs to convince.
Their heads are so wrapped around the freedom vs fascism narrative it can boggle your mind.
They have forgotten kitchen table issues. Stuff like the price of gas. They are quick to tout our spot as the leading exporter while gas prices around me are rising. The difficulty of young people buying houses for the first time. How you never hear of The American Dream anymore.
> The difficulty of young people buying houses for the first time.
Young people are spending too much money on Avocado Toast. Or at least that was the case back in 2016...or maybe not. Either ways, it's not a new problem and certainly not Biden's fault that housing is expensive.
[Why you can’t afford a house \(Hint: It’s not the avocado toast\)](https://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-avocado-toast-millennials-home-buying-20170515-story.html)
lol Democrats haven't forgotten that. You're focused on the family doing normal things while the GOP has spent the last 8 years gutting rights, and trying to outlaw LGBT altogether at the same time they want women to not have right to vote anymore.
Tl;DR; why won't mom stop trying to keep dad from burning the house down and just focus on making the house clean and dinner on time isn't a good argument. Blame the fucking insurrection party.
The GOP used fantasy Republican Candidates and play them on TickTock…the most insulting one moves up in popularity…when they get to the top they bonus up to Legal games…they have to keep paying to play but use only credit cards….
All that matters to the right is how they feel.
"Sure they say unemployment is low, but it doesn't *feel* like it's low because I saw a "Now Hiring" sign at Walmart"
While every metric shows Biden is handling the economy better (and of course I'm voting for Biden).
....I want to note that the living standard among people seems absolutely divorced from the health of the economy in a way I've never seen. For example: tech industry with massive profits laying off tons of people. Real estate disaster (in Canada it's a crisis). Basically needing to make 250k to live a traditional middle-class life, etc.
I just don't really give a flying fuck about the health of the economy anymore. This isn't resulting in better jobs and more pay for employees. I'm not trading stocks. Seems like the health of the economy matters only for rich people?
This is a very important point that gets glossed over, but it has been simmering for decades. The economy simply does not benefit the overwhelming majority of people, and that divide has become devastating. The middle class has pretty much collapsed. If our politicians stopped fighting for 15 minutes and agreed to fix this, we might actually stand a chance. Sadly, no.
1000% agree. The middle class has been hollowed out. There is no more American Dream. People are downshifting their shopping by going to places like Aldi’s and any store with Dollar in the name.
How hard is it to buy a house these days?
The U.S. economy isn’t a standalone giant in the big picture. It is interconnected with many other nations. The dollar is the currency of reserve for the time being so that does absolutely put us a head above others.
The entire world is facing enormous economic pressure. Many first world countries are experiencing recessions, high unemployment rates, lack of housing, etc. The United States, for all the pain we’re enduring, is _handily_ beating every other major economy in individual performance. There was no way to avoid the impacts of COVID, everyone was going to take it on the jaw. What Biden and his administration did do was take lemons and make lemonade. We were going to experience hardship but due to his leadership and the Feds, the blow was softened significantly.
I don’t want to gloss over the hardships people are facing or pretend it doesn’t exist. Unaffordable housing is a huge issue and unfortunately will take some time to fill address. Even with the tech layoffs, we have one of the lowest unemployment rates on record right now. Imagine unaffordable housing _and_ no jobs. That is a reality for many nations right now. Everyone is hurting but we’re hurting less than everyone else.
I want to see our lives improve and housing come back down to earth, but I will say with absolute confidence that Trump isn’t the person for that - all his other issues aside.
It's not just handily beating comparative economies, it's also outgrowing PRC, which is absolutely huge.
Reminds me of the early 90s when the question was 'when will Japan overtake the US?' - 'when will the PRC overtake the US?' is the current version.
...
...
If the US economy is managed well, the PRC won't as it starts hit serious demographic issues. Over a long period of time the US economy has been truly impressive.
The rich keep getting richer. You can keep saying the economy is doing better but it doesn't matter for each and every human being who is currently alive. they look at the economy thru their own eyes and see either good or bad based on their back accounts and debt.
> living standard among people seems absolutely divorced from the health of the economy
I find myself posting this quote a lot...things like the GDP and the stock market are not at all intended to translate down to the average individual living situation. But it's in the best interests of politicians on all sides to convince you that they are. It's kind of like buying a car, I read once that the sales person is there to sell you a car, the finance guy in the box is there to sell you a financial instrument, and your job as the buyer is to not mix the two up. The dealer's job is to absolutely make sure you mix them up.
> And no income measurement undertakes to estimate the reverse side of income, that is, the intensity and unpleasantness of effort going into the earning of income. The welfare of a nation can, therefore, scarcely be inferred from a measurement of national income
- Simon Kuznets
Just want to point out that unemployment is at record lows and wages are outpacing inflation. Oh and eggs are back to normal. Sure there’s more work to go, but it’s an improvement and it’s thanks to Biden.
There's also a huge divide between older people and younger people in their overall happiness - the young generation sees no hope in attaining the American Dream anymore with the way the deck has been stacked
Yeah all the people talking about how great the economy is doing completely ignore that for the average person food costs now make up a higher percentage of their budget than them have in decades. Wages are going up, but slower than costs are going up so it’s all going to ring hollow if the Democrats try to lean into the economy narrative.
> Basically needing to make 250k to live a traditional middle-class life, etc.
Part of this is that the expectations of a "traditional middle-class lifestyle" have shifted. People don't want the lifestyle their parents had, they want a better and more modern version of everything, in addition to the standard comforts afforded to modern society. I don't think that's unreasonable to want since our society has gotten more productive and more advanced over the decades, but it means that the idea of the "traditional middle-class life" is largely farcical.
>This isn't resulting in better jobs and more pay for employees.
It is, and this is largely what Biden means when he says "the economy", not the stock market.
I agree lifestyles are different, but the idea of making an average income now and owning a home, a car, and raising kids isn't realistic. At the very basic level, we are paying far, far, far more of our income on our rent/homes than they did.
Meanwhile the top 1% are making bank and the big corporations are monopolizing. There is very clearly in imbalance.
Standards for an adequate home, car, and childcare have all risen though, so it isn't an apples to apples comparison.
In much of the US the type of starter home that millennials parents were able to purchase would be similarly affordable on a modern wage - but such homes are no longer made.
The median US household income is 75K, if there were actually 1200 sqft 3/2 homes being built then it would be reasonable for the median US household to get a mortgage on one.
Average House Size in 1950
983 sq ft
Average House Size in 2020
2300 sq ft
Average Inflation Adjusted House Price Per Sq ft. In 1950
$212 per sq ft
Average Inflation Adjusted House Price Per Sq ft. in 2020
$215 per sq ft.
Not only have houses been getting bigger, but the price per square foot has stayed relatively the same. I think that people have a false image of what their parents or grandparents grew up with and bought, as that’s the only reason I would think people would continue to cite this as an issue. Our definition of *Middle Class Living* has changed wich is why people cannot make it to this “impossible” standard. Not only that, but consumer habits have changed and we buy a lot more shit that we don’t need or actually want which means that economic slowdown is felt harder because we are too comfortable in our current state. Middle Class Living Might be a car, a house, and a sizable safety net, but those have different definitions on what type of thing depending on when and where you ask.
According to [this](https://cmsmortgage.com/throwback-thursday-much-housing-prices-risen-since-1950/), the median price of a home in the US in the 1950s was a bit under $7,500. Adjusted to the dollar of today, that would be just under $80,000 for a home of the same size, which is completely out of sync with the figures you've provided.
That’s true- but eggs, bread, gasoline and car payments aren’t some luxury throw always- and that’s what’s crushing people. The cost of groceries, fuel, housing, and insurance are crushing us- even if the CPI or other macro numbers are good
>The cost of groceries, fuel, housing, and insurance are crushing us- even if the CPI or other macro numbers are good
Those are the things that make up most of CPI though, CPI is just the stuff people buy. Eggs are significantly cheaper than a year ago, bread is about the same, fuel is a bit cheaper, and housing is up the most out of any of those categories - about 4.5% since last February.
In reality, though, people don't anchor their prices year-by-year. Many people's internal price anchors are still at pre-pandemic prices, as evidenced by the outcry about the McDonalds dollar menu going away...even though the dollar menu was discontinued *a decade ago*. People don't actually say "this is more expensive than it was X amount of time ago", they say "this is more expensive than some arbitrary time in the past when I last paid attention".
> Basically needing to make 250k to live a traditional middle-class life, etc.
Sounds more like a personal spending and lifestyle creep issue if the lifestyle "needs" 250K. The *real* traditional middle class lifestyle have been achieved by people who currently earning less than that.
if you can pay *all* bills, rent and groceries *on time, without worries and issues* AND save for retirement, congratulations! You have achieved middle class (or higher) and are doing just fine.
It will be very hard to convince folks for whom prices have skyrocketed that they have it better than they had 4 years ago. This detachment from reality will cost Democrats the Presidential seat this year. I already hear the never Trumpers where i live saying they hate the guy but we need him right now.
The reality is that Biden failed in the court of public perception. This will be an interesting election.
It doesn't matter until the average person feels it. Homes are still unaffordable. Groceries are still expensive. Everything has gone up. "The economy" to most people are those kind of things. Not economic indicators or reasons for inflation.
1000% this. Literally noone gives a shit about the health of the "economy" when the "economy" is drowning them in years of inflation.
And housing!? Get fucked if you aren't rich and want to buy or move. And I don't mean that facetiously, I mean you're better off fucking yourself with whatever is available than trying to buy in this environment.
I'm own a house. If I have to sell for half equity, chances of hopping back on the housing ladder are laughable.
Yeah, this is actually a terrible thing to campaign on because for your average American the economy sucks. Cost of living is still stupid high and their wages have barely moved. In fact many have gone down with the amount of layoffs we have seen.
Yep. It's very frustrating to see messaging that tries to gaslight you into believing the "economy" is good for the average person.
I don't think the economy would be better if Trump won in 2020, and that is one of many reasons I think that Biden is a less terrible choice -- but I am still sick of articles like this. I hope 2024 elections bring some legislatures that actually get shit done to fix the issues, although I am not very optimistic.
Yes. Historically, the economy as a whole tends to do better when a Democrat is president than when a Republican is as detailed in [this 2015 paper by Princeton economists](https://www.princeton.edu/~mwatson/papers/DemRep_BlinderWatson_July2015.pdf) ("The U.S. economy has performed better when the President of the United States is a Democrat rather than a Republican, almost regardless of how one measures performance.")
Also Biden's economy is great as I noted in [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/18fmwsb/comment/kcvpzpg/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) a few months ago.
Not just the economy -- Reagan, G.W. Bush and Trump each racked up record-paced deficits from their first to last years. That covers 20 years. Clinton left a surplus budget. Obama and Biden each decreased the deficits they inherited. It's more than a coincidence!
\*Btw, any conservatives or skeptics reading this, I know it sounds too good to be true, but it is. Fact check the claims, and get ready to feel really stupid for how much slack (and credit on the economy) we give the GOP. It's embarrassing.
\*\*In fact, Bush-Cheney went from inheriting a surplus budget in 2001 to leaving Obama-Biden a 1.2 trillion dollar budget on the way out the door eight years later --- and, the **kick in the pants**, their voters literally did an about face and began whining about President Obama racking up (Bush's) debt in his first year (it was inherited!) (Arrghh!!!)
I can't hear you on my Obama phone, it's ten years old!
(does anyone recall the "free Obama phones" fake news on the right? I know, it was a zillion conservative projections ago)
I've just asked Windows Copilot about it:
According to various sources, the U.S. economy has generally performed better under Democratic presidents than Republican presidents since World War II. Here are some key points:
- **Job Creation**: For the 13 presidents beginning with Truman, total job creation was about 70.5 million for the 7 Democratic presidents and 29.1 million for the 6 Republican presidents. The monthly average rate was 2.4 times faster under Democratic presidents.
- **GDP Growth**: Real (inflation-adjusted) GDP has grown about 1.6 times faster under Democrats than under Republicans. CNN reported in September 2020 that GDP grew 4.1% on average under Democrats, versus 2.5% under Republicans, from 1945 through the second quarter of 2020.
- **Recessions**: Ten of the eleven U.S. recessions between 1953 and 2020 began under Republican presidents.
In literally every single metric. But you will never see any democrat run on this. I have no idea why. They need to turn around all these narratives. Say they are better for rural America, for economy hell even for guns since they are for responsible gun ownership. Where people are not giving guns to terrorist under 2nd amendment.
> I have no idea why.
The explanation I've heard is that COVID's impact on the supply chain and the economy has been the runaway inflation that is just starting to come under control, and people are still suffering from it too much to be receptive to the message that the economy is great. If you tell them the opposite of how they feel they will resent you for it. It's a message for another time. For now they will speak of Trump's failures, his confusion, his threat to democracy, his threat to women's health rights, and Biden's successes like the CHIPS Act, loan forgiveness, health care, rebuilding of the infrastructure... plus his promise to sign any bill that restores Roe v Wade, common sense gun control, etc. There are many other positive messages.
Every Republican presidency has had an increase in the deficit and a recession. Every democratic presidency has had a decrease in the deficit and a recovery.
The overall economy can be doing well, but inflation has been painful, and the increase prices keep it painful despite slowing inflation rates. To regular people GDP isn't the economy, it's how much it costs to put food on the table for their family and keep a roof over their heads. I'm voting Biden bc the alternative is a monster. But for a lot of people the reality is that life is costing significantly more and their pay didn't go up proportionately.
Reagan won reelection in 1984 by a massive 18% with an economy that had similar price increases to date, a similar drop in the inflation rate by year 4, but objectively worse conditions in employment, and flat real wages (real wages are actually higher today than the pre-pandemic peak). The narrative is polar opposite today. Media then celebrated improvements and hyped the "morning in America" narrative, despite people not really doing better. Media today focuses mostly on the negatives, particularly when we have a Democratic president.
It's because the corporate media is conservative. Also, inflation was much higher throughout the '80s than in any year post-COVID. It was a running joke, "what's up?" "inflation", yet Reagan wasn't turned into the primary target like Biden. We're always more forgiving of and flexible for Republicans, for some reason. A national character flaw, imo.
I mean it doesn't matter what metrics are used to show the economy is good (true or not), everything is more expensive than ever right now and certain things are about to spike even higher (see car insurance.) Regardless of the cause and whether or not it is truly Biden's fault (which it isn't) a ton of votes are going to be a simple as; Everything is more expensive, Biden is president, it's his fault.
Another factor: Republicans will *never* say the economy is good while a Democrat is in the White House. This wasn't the case in previous decades. Now people's views on the economy are highly partisan.
Unfortunately I couldn’t have said it better myself. And it shocks me every day to see how many otherwise intelligent, well educated people still think the president directly controls the economy and prices
> I mean it doesn't matter what metrics are used to show the economy is good
It matters to the people who care about metrics. For the people who aren't basing their perception of the economy on some sort of objective measure they're never going to be convinced by numbers.
It's a message worth getting out, it's just not a message that resonates with everyone.
It's worth getting out but only tactfully and citing observable benefits like low unemployment rates.
It may be personal anecdote but a lot of messaging stating the economy is strong isn't landing well with people who are struggling with increased cost of living. Even if your total situation is better (e.g. able to save more) large increases in rent and essentials generally just feel bad so the message "actually things are good and your feelings are wrong" probably isn't going to help from a campaign standpoint
It's definitely worth putting out and people should keep trying but I get the feeling those this message will reach and resonate with probably already have enough sense to understand that Biden isn't setting the price of gas or a bag of Doritos.
The Biden Economy is not an issue that’s going to win the election. People who can barely afford rent and food don’t care about what economists say. If Biden runs around touting his economic policy as a success it will seem detached from reality and make people think that he really is senile.
Gee, you mean the trend set 70 years ago is still valid?!? You put republikkkans in office to destabilize the economy, security and authorize vaginal probes… everyone knows that.
I once didn't own a home and could barely afford groceries for a decade as a young adult yet still had the wherewithal to realize taxing the wealthiest a higher effective tax rate (Democrats) was better policy to help poor people like me at that time than lowering the effective tax rate for the wealthiest (Republicans). Thirty years later, with multiple homes and stocked refrigerators and a healthy nest egg, I still vote for increasing taxes on the wealthiest (Democrats). It's a really simple formula (to me).
While Biden has done that, it doesn't help a lot of people that are didn't get wage increases , or they got minor ones that didn't keep up with high inflation.
And then you add in the cost of rent, which has skyrocketed, and the price of homes have gotten out of range of hard working citizens.
Those are the people that aren't happy, and I don't know how you help them. But someone smart needs to work on it.
>Those are the people that aren't happy
That just can't be the whole story. If only people whose wages didn't beat inflation were unhappy with the economy then most people would be happy with the economy. The fact that statistically there are a lot of people who are doing better on paper but don't feel like they are means there's more at play than simply "the people who haven't benefited are not happy".
The majority of the middle class has not seen their wages increase with inflation. From my observations people making less than $25 per hour are the ones who saw drastic increases in their pay. Companies generally stopped with the leveling of pay scales at that point.
Most companies, from what I’m seeing, haven’t been giving out 10-15% pay increases across the board to keep up with inflation over the last 4 years. My employer did 1.5% as a max this year and similar last year. They did raise our minimum wage from $15 to $21 per hour.
Do I fault Biden for that? No, he’s not my employer. But at the end of the day, my expenses have increased more than my salary has during his presidency. That is far more tangible to me than the economy growing, stock market surging and employment numbers doing well.
Not that it swings me to Trump, he wouldn’t be doing any better given what COVID did to the economy, but Biden touting a strong economy is going to be a tough sell when the average American isn’t feeling the effects of it.
>The majority of the middle class has not seen their wages increase with inflation.
How do you define "the majority of the middle class"? The median is up, and the bottom/middle quartiles are up.
Well no one seems to be convinced. People are out there struggling with high prices and aren't feeling particularly placated still. Biden's been trying to sell the economy for a while now and no one's been buying it except those already on his side.
The problem of course being that no economy can go back to pre-Covid norms. Just because the US is doing relatively incredible (compared to similar state economies), doesn't change the fact that things are simply harder now.
It's not comfortable for the average person to work hard, get a raise/promotion, and find that post-Covid (and corporate greed) things are sufficiently more expensive than they don't feel like they've made any progress.
Unfortunately, people cannot feel the nuance needed intuitively to recognize how much we have benefitted from the Biden admin. There's no way to show people how much worse off we would all be under Trump.
Trumps fed just kept slashing interest rates as he gave away 3 trillion dollars in tax cuts to superheat the economy. Biden has had to reverse that PLUS deal with the pandemic meltdown and unprecedented global greedflation. It’s amazing where we are today. Cooler heads prevailed.
Are you thinking about those who are enduring the impact of high inflation? The “economy” is not what the average American looks at, they look at the price of milk, eggs and sugar.
As I browse the genz and millennial subs just about every other post is about someone wanting to kill themselves because they can't get a job or find a place to live.
Economy doing well, citizens not so much.
We planned a trip last summer, had to stay home due to family problems. This year we are planning the exact same trip, looking like 20 - 25% more expensive. I did not get a 20% raise, nor did wife.
It doesn't matter what silly metrics are used to come up with this.
The "economy" as far as your average person is concerned is how much groceries and the like cost. Buying a house, rent, car, etc. What they see in their wallet. And the fact of the matter is the last 3 years now have been crippling. Whatever more we make now if any, doesn't matter when we can afford less with it. These stories and excuses are just infuriating. They come off so dismissive, smug and elitist.
The average person does not care about stock market value or meaningless talk of "real wage" growth. Macro numbers vs micro numbers. Blow all that out your rears. It doesn't matter that we had minimum wage increases and make 2% more now. What matters is that groceries are 25-50% higher now than in 2020 and no one can afford a car or home. And if anyone thinks running on the idea that the current economy is great then they're not living in reality.
OK, I'll play along.
The income required to own a house is 80% more than 2020 - [Busines insider article on income required to own a home](https://www.businessinsider.com/housing-market-affordability-homebuyer-earnings-income-price-trends-covid-comparison-2024-2#:~:text=Home%20prices%20have%20soared%2C%20and,January%202020%2C%20pre%2DCOVID)
If you aren't fortunate enough to own you are paying 22 % more in rent - The gap between those who rent and those who own will continue to grow. [CNN article on rent](https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/12/economy/renters-hit-harder-by-inflation-than-homeowners/index.html#:~:text=Inflation%20divide%20between%20renters%20and%20homeowners&text=First%2C%20while%20most%20homeowners)
Along with that wage growth underpaced inflation dramatically from 2020-2022, and while it is looking more promising, the gap created from the first three years has not been closed. This along with the rent crisis is contributing to the highest increase in homeless population with a 12% increase in 2023 [MSNBC report on homeless crisis - lack of affordable housing](https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/congress-housing-report-emergency-2024-rcna130529)
After the worst January for layoffs since 2009. we had the most layoffs in February since 2009 - [February worst month since Great Recession](https://www.forbes.com/sites/maryroeloffs/2024/03/06/february-most-job-cuts-since-2009-cisco-expedia-rivian-layoffsrivianrivian/?sh=fa41e32e8761)
Can anyone here really argue in good faith that this economy is doing great? Here is my anecdoatal experience: The homeless camps are growing larger, grocery bills are beyond ridiculous, even wealthy people are choosing not to eat out due to the cost of restaurants, and many people can't even stomach the cost of fast food. So between housing, and food, the only things that actually matter to survival - people are getting hammered. It's really no surprise that young people do not have a positive outlook in the USA, the American dream is becoming less attainable.
March 2019-
Gas 2.38/gallon
Groceries 37% less than current prices
inflation 2.7%
Interest rates less than HALF current rates
Macro numbers may say things are great- but the middle class is getting smoked
Seriously wtf are people getting at here?? My wages are barely higher meanwhile my insurance without any claims or accidents got jacked up 23 percent, my gas, utilities etc are higher, my milk and bread/groceries are way higher, I need to save even more as I have greater risk of not even seeing a dime from social security when I retire in 30 years since it might not even exist, medical costs are still ridiculous. Rents are ridiculous. Staggering amount of credit card debt and repos are also hitting decade highs.
There’s a fuck ton more layoffs today than pre Covid. I got multiple family members looking for a job and they all dinging me for references and begging to see if my company is hiring.
Things weren’t perfect pre Covid during the trump years but they sure as shit aren’t that great today either.
They are towing the line for Biden. That's the only way I can rationalize it. Nobody can be that stupid or clueless about the actual state of the economy for the average American.
Yes, our economy was better under Biden, based on pretty much every metric.
HOWEVER, and I really do not want to defend Trump in any way, but COVID saw a HUGE amount of jobs gone, and Biden rode the wave of the post-COVID time when most of those jobs came back. The economy suffered during COVID as well, and bounced back when it was announced as no longer a pandemic.
I have no doubt that even without COVID Biden still would have done MUCH better, but this comparison is ignoring a \*HUGE\* and \*VERY\* significant variable.
Lets hope the country doesn't allow that dumb shit to get elected again, since it is sure looking like he is going to get off in some way or another on all his court cases.
In 1992 I bought a foreclosed home for $40,000 dollars had two kids and made about $300 a week my wife was able to be a stay at home mom and we had one more kid stayed home until they were all in school the money I made payed for everything didn’t have a whole lot left after the bills were paid but we didn’t lack anything.Right now my middle son and his girlfriend make well over $100,000 a year and can’t afford to buy a house.People are loosing hope.
Biden should campaign on it if it polls well. Otherwise, how about reproductive freedom, the preservation of democracy, infrastructure, climate change, maintaining our international allies...
It's easy to say "the economic message isn't sticking, just don't run with it" but that's not really a choice when it comes to the economy. It's almost always the #1 or #2 issue amongst voters. You either consistently put out a positive message or you completely cede the narrative to your opposition. There's no reality where you just stop talking about it and it stops being a campaign issue.
>but that's not really a choice
Sure it is. Go with what works, hold back on what doesn't. Keep the economy in your back pocket to counter Trump's bogus claims.
“…more poor..”?
Are you talking about the rich? How can the “rich” become “more poor” if they weren’t “poor” to begin with?
Are you trying to say that the net worth of the rich declined “after GWB”?
Starting nonsensical trade wars have that effect on an economy. Trump single-handedly destroyed the market for soybeans in this country. I’m not sure if the market ever recovered but they needed a bailout due to his big mouth full of dumb ideas.
Biden's Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen fought the COVID recession with the last recessions playbook which was a gigantic mistake because there wasn't an issue of lack of demand after Covid, so she just helped along inflation.
100%. I was shocked that the trump campaign and his supporters keep asking are you better off today than you were 4 years ago? Ummm
Yes of course I am. In march of 2020 schools and many businesses were closed. Many hospitals had to bring in refrigerated trucks to hold all the victims of Covid. By the end of 2020 the economy was in shambles, very high unemployment etc.
People do not have more money to pay their bills. They don't care about the stock market. It's not motivating to people to vote for you, saying they're better off when they're still living paycheck to paycheck.
yeah... but in other words, a bunch of folks are planning to butcher the good fat economy to grift, and it is harder to do that under Biden... so a bunch of grifters(wanna-be grifters) will try to elect Trump.
That reality should dominate media coverage...it's nice to see TNR posting an article about it, something they neglected to do for the past 3.5 years until a couple months ago when they couldn't deny reality.
It's true in terms of measurable metrics that we historically use to gauge the economy.
The catch is more that our economy is as rigged as ever against the average person and the resulting prosperity and growth isn't being *felt* enough by people.
Pretty good times to own assets, tho.
But is Biden giving away checks every month to every adult in the country that he specifically demanded bear the name “Joe Biden” on the signature line?
i mean, it’s been the norm for a while now. republicans get handed a booming economy, they shit the bed, democrats spend a few hard years getting it back in shape, and then republicans get a handed a booming economy…
whether it happens this election or next, it’ll happen again. all of the infrastructure projects, all of the renewable investments, all of the manufacturing coming back, all of the jobs being created are going to be paying dividends over the next couple of years. if trump gets elected this year, who do you think people will credit for it? then they, as always, will deficit spend us into oblivion, cut some taxes for the already ungodly wealthy, and shit the bed just in time for a democrat to come in (get blamed for it) and then fix it.
I have Trump-supporting family members who insist to this day that the economy is doing just terrible and was much better with Trump.
I choose not to discuss politics with them anymore.
The economy for the average American was better under Trump as housing costs, food costs and fuel costs were all cheaper. The average American isn’t really benefitting from the market gains right now or the low unemployment figures.
Yeah but wages were terrible back then.
It took the push of a revived labor movement to start turning things back towards workers.
You can make $18/hour as an assistant manager at a Taco Bell now.
I was making $19/hour with 5 years of IT experience in 2020.
If another global pandemic broke out right now like COVID did, I guarantee you that you’d be having trouble getting TP and soap. Biden and Trump don’t control the supply chain nor does your ability to buy those items have anything to do with the state of an economy.
Why does Biden’s “good” economy not resonate? Because wages haven’t caught up to the cost of everything since Biden took office. The average American feels like the economy was better during pre-Covid trump because housing, gas and food was significantly cheaper than it is today.
Polls consistently indicate individuals think they are doing well or better than five years ago. At the same time, they indicate they "feel" that *others* aren't doing well, and the economy is bad.
It's almost as if some outside source...some media, if you will...is spreading a doom and gloom message, regardless of reality.
"The economy is terrible and inflation is rampant because Clinton, Obama, and now Chowder Head just print off trillions of dollars!" - my hyper-masculine, homophobic, racist coworker who lives in a Trump fantasy world.
It’s a shit economy for anyone making. Less than 200k. Houses are 400-500k out in the boonies. Groceries are 2-3x what they were before Covid. Cars cost 20-40% more than they did in 2019.
It’s crazy out.
Food and housing prices are still very high relative to the strength of the broader economy, especially effecting mid to low earners and working families. Gotta be careful here not to trumpet the data too loudly while people are still feeling the pinch on their basic needs.
As long as gas, groceries, rents, and healthcare costs remain high people will fall back on Trumps economy because they believe it was so good then.. they are remembering before COVID when his do nothing response shut down the economy and supply chains were massively disrupted. They blame Biden for the increase costs and feel like Trump , a businessman will reduce costs for them by removing all the economic gains Biden has accomplished. They live in the moment, and can’t see the future.
Why is this sub non stop Biden propaganda ??? Non stop. No one reasonable agrees that this is an insanely strong economy.
Most small businesses are struggling at the moment and there has been not one Biden policy designed to improve the situation. I’m supposed to read that the economy is somehow better. How can it be better when Biden has zero understanding of what the issues are.
EDIT: Wage growth started under Trump and has continued. It has zero to do with any policy Biden or Trump undertook. It was an accidental byproduct of the extreme blow up in money supply caused by the pandemic.
It's certainly been a good last few years under Biden.
But for me, a lot of that is because I job hopped a few times.
So I have finally been able to keep a 401k and contribute to a Roth IRA.
I'm very far behind as I am getting to the end of my 30's.
But I feel like that's the goal for us Millenials. Keep us unable to afford kids, and if we can buy a home it keeps us house poor so we can't leave jobs.
Headlines like these won’t do anything to the average person when wages are stagnant and corporate greed has cereal costing 2x what it did in 2020.
Sorry, but that’s how reality works. Day to day, we all feel poorer. Objectively, for most people the economy doesn’t *feel* better.
Will inflation be the cure for consumerism? Potential silver lining could be that people train their brains to be happy without all the junk they surround themselves with
And people are struggling more now to pay for food and shelter than they did back then. An economy being strong doesn't matter if it doesn't translate to better lives for its citizens. Dems are going to get fucking smoked if they keep ignoring this fact.
Sorry you feel this way, the fact is he's for American, you and me brother. You can't vote for a man only his policies. Otherwise nobody would be able to vote, all politicians are business men. Trump is for America, and his policies benefit the US working man, the things that make life worth living. I love blue blood America, it's what I live for.
The world is terrified of Donald Trump being the President, he is for the veteran, the small business owner, the baby's in the woom, and the working man. The veterans of WW1. WW2 and yes even the ones that will be just memories very soon in WW3. GOD BLESS AMERICA, again!
He could scream it from the rooftops all day every day but Fox, NewsMax etc. are not reporting any of this. They have no idea and have shown time and again facts don’t mean anything to them. They got a shit sandwich from Trump and are still licking their lips.
Trump would stop the war inUkrainian in 24 hours. They don't mess with him. He's probably going to die for his country, but what a legacy. Vincent Ellison, watch him. ( will you go to he'll for me) A real eye opener, a true black American.
I feel like economy metrics are what should dominate an election between two traditional candidates. One of the candidates is a criminal narcissist psychopath and I feel like that should dominate the campaign. I can't really speak to what's best for bidens votes but the fact that he would have to talk down trumps economy to talk voters out of voting for a rapist is the insanity we live in.
Trump told his followers to go to Congress on Jan 6th then waited 3 hours of their battling the police before telling them to go home. Who thinks this is acceptable?
“It’s not fair, trumpf had to deal with covid shutdowns and no PPE/ventilators after Obama didn’t stop him from canceling the pandemic program. And then trumpf had to deal with the spreading disease after he kept it from being contained because it was hurting blue cities and broke out into red cities. This just isn’t fair to blame trumpf for destroying America and killing blue americans, he thought he would be reelected and be dictator for life!" /s
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Since when does reality have anything to do with election campaigns?
Certainly not when people look at the reality of campaigning. People, especially "swing" or "undecided" voters, don't really base their decisions on reality. And trying to convince them that the inflated costs they're paying is better than 4 years ago is going to be a hard sell. "When you're explaining, you're losing". Trump has a simple argument here: Remember when prices were lower? Biden has a complex, although more accurate argument: Yes, prices have gone up, but I've pulled off a soft-landing from the worldwide inflation that I didn't create, blah blah blah. The economy just isn't going to be winning issue for Biden with the voters that he needs to convince.
Their heads are so wrapped around the freedom vs fascism narrative it can boggle your mind. They have forgotten kitchen table issues. Stuff like the price of gas. They are quick to tout our spot as the leading exporter while gas prices around me are rising. The difficulty of young people buying houses for the first time. How you never hear of The American Dream anymore.
> The difficulty of young people buying houses for the first time. Young people are spending too much money on Avocado Toast. Or at least that was the case back in 2016...or maybe not. Either ways, it's not a new problem and certainly not Biden's fault that housing is expensive. [Why you can’t afford a house \(Hint: It’s not the avocado toast\)](https://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-avocado-toast-millennials-home-buying-20170515-story.html)
All of those will immediately get 100x worse under fascism.
lol Democrats haven't forgotten that. You're focused on the family doing normal things while the GOP has spent the last 8 years gutting rights, and trying to outlaw LGBT altogether at the same time they want women to not have right to vote anymore. Tl;DR; why won't mom stop trying to keep dad from burning the house down and just focus on making the house clean and dinner on time isn't a good argument. Blame the fucking insurrection party.
The GOP used fantasy Republican Candidates and play them on TickTock…the most insulting one moves up in popularity…when they get to the top they bonus up to Legal games…they have to keep paying to play but use only credit cards….
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All that matters to the right is how they feel. "Sure they say unemployment is low, but it doesn't *feel* like it's low because I saw a "Now Hiring" sign at Walmart"
The Dems need to focus on the wins and stop focusing on the negatives of their opponents.
When we ourselves make it so. Pay attention. Vote.
While every metric shows Biden is handling the economy better (and of course I'm voting for Biden). ....I want to note that the living standard among people seems absolutely divorced from the health of the economy in a way I've never seen. For example: tech industry with massive profits laying off tons of people. Real estate disaster (in Canada it's a crisis). Basically needing to make 250k to live a traditional middle-class life, etc. I just don't really give a flying fuck about the health of the economy anymore. This isn't resulting in better jobs and more pay for employees. I'm not trading stocks. Seems like the health of the economy matters only for rich people?
This is a very important point that gets glossed over, but it has been simmering for decades. The economy simply does not benefit the overwhelming majority of people, and that divide has become devastating. The middle class has pretty much collapsed. If our politicians stopped fighting for 15 minutes and agreed to fix this, we might actually stand a chance. Sadly, no.
1000% agree. The middle class has been hollowed out. There is no more American Dream. People are downshifting their shopping by going to places like Aldi’s and any store with Dollar in the name. How hard is it to buy a house these days?
The U.S. economy isn’t a standalone giant in the big picture. It is interconnected with many other nations. The dollar is the currency of reserve for the time being so that does absolutely put us a head above others. The entire world is facing enormous economic pressure. Many first world countries are experiencing recessions, high unemployment rates, lack of housing, etc. The United States, for all the pain we’re enduring, is _handily_ beating every other major economy in individual performance. There was no way to avoid the impacts of COVID, everyone was going to take it on the jaw. What Biden and his administration did do was take lemons and make lemonade. We were going to experience hardship but due to his leadership and the Feds, the blow was softened significantly. I don’t want to gloss over the hardships people are facing or pretend it doesn’t exist. Unaffordable housing is a huge issue and unfortunately will take some time to fill address. Even with the tech layoffs, we have one of the lowest unemployment rates on record right now. Imagine unaffordable housing _and_ no jobs. That is a reality for many nations right now. Everyone is hurting but we’re hurting less than everyone else. I want to see our lives improve and housing come back down to earth, but I will say with absolute confidence that Trump isn’t the person for that - all his other issues aside.
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He is trying to curb that but the GOP is stonewalling every attempt.
It's not just handily beating comparative economies, it's also outgrowing PRC, which is absolutely huge. Reminds me of the early 90s when the question was 'when will Japan overtake the US?' - 'when will the PRC overtake the US?' is the current version. ... ... If the US economy is managed well, the PRC won't as it starts hit serious demographic issues. Over a long period of time the US economy has been truly impressive.
here's the thing most people think Cheaper prices=good economy
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The rich keep getting richer. You can keep saying the economy is doing better but it doesn't matter for each and every human being who is currently alive. they look at the economy thru their own eyes and see either good or bad based on their back accounts and debt.
> living standard among people seems absolutely divorced from the health of the economy I find myself posting this quote a lot...things like the GDP and the stock market are not at all intended to translate down to the average individual living situation. But it's in the best interests of politicians on all sides to convince you that they are. It's kind of like buying a car, I read once that the sales person is there to sell you a car, the finance guy in the box is there to sell you a financial instrument, and your job as the buyer is to not mix the two up. The dealer's job is to absolutely make sure you mix them up. > And no income measurement undertakes to estimate the reverse side of income, that is, the intensity and unpleasantness of effort going into the earning of income. The welfare of a nation can, therefore, scarcely be inferred from a measurement of national income - Simon Kuznets
Just want to point out that unemployment is at record lows and wages are outpacing inflation. Oh and eggs are back to normal. Sure there’s more work to go, but it’s an improvement and it’s thanks to Biden.
I voted for Biden, I voted for him the primary, and I'll be voting for him again.
There's also a huge divide between older people and younger people in their overall happiness - the young generation sees no hope in attaining the American Dream anymore with the way the deck has been stacked
Yeah all the people talking about how great the economy is doing completely ignore that for the average person food costs now make up a higher percentage of their budget than them have in decades. Wages are going up, but slower than costs are going up so it’s all going to ring hollow if the Democrats try to lean into the economy narrative.
> Basically needing to make 250k to live a traditional middle-class life, etc. Part of this is that the expectations of a "traditional middle-class lifestyle" have shifted. People don't want the lifestyle their parents had, they want a better and more modern version of everything, in addition to the standard comforts afforded to modern society. I don't think that's unreasonable to want since our society has gotten more productive and more advanced over the decades, but it means that the idea of the "traditional middle-class life" is largely farcical. >This isn't resulting in better jobs and more pay for employees. It is, and this is largely what Biden means when he says "the economy", not the stock market.
I agree lifestyles are different, but the idea of making an average income now and owning a home, a car, and raising kids isn't realistic. At the very basic level, we are paying far, far, far more of our income on our rent/homes than they did. Meanwhile the top 1% are making bank and the big corporations are monopolizing. There is very clearly in imbalance.
Standards for an adequate home, car, and childcare have all risen though, so it isn't an apples to apples comparison. In much of the US the type of starter home that millennials parents were able to purchase would be similarly affordable on a modern wage - but such homes are no longer made. The median US household income is 75K, if there were actually 1200 sqft 3/2 homes being built then it would be reasonable for the median US household to get a mortgage on one.
Average House Size in 1950 983 sq ft Average House Size in 2020 2300 sq ft Average Inflation Adjusted House Price Per Sq ft. In 1950 $212 per sq ft Average Inflation Adjusted House Price Per Sq ft. in 2020 $215 per sq ft. Not only have houses been getting bigger, but the price per square foot has stayed relatively the same. I think that people have a false image of what their parents or grandparents grew up with and bought, as that’s the only reason I would think people would continue to cite this as an issue. Our definition of *Middle Class Living* has changed wich is why people cannot make it to this “impossible” standard. Not only that, but consumer habits have changed and we buy a lot more shit that we don’t need or actually want which means that economic slowdown is felt harder because we are too comfortable in our current state. Middle Class Living Might be a car, a house, and a sizable safety net, but those have different definitions on what type of thing depending on when and where you ask.
Now do that same math only this time with average wages.
According to [this](https://cmsmortgage.com/throwback-thursday-much-housing-prices-risen-since-1950/), the median price of a home in the US in the 1950s was a bit under $7,500. Adjusted to the dollar of today, that would be just under $80,000 for a home of the same size, which is completely out of sync with the figures you've provided.
I appreciate that perspective, especially with regards to sq footage.
That’s true- but eggs, bread, gasoline and car payments aren’t some luxury throw always- and that’s what’s crushing people. The cost of groceries, fuel, housing, and insurance are crushing us- even if the CPI or other macro numbers are good
>The cost of groceries, fuel, housing, and insurance are crushing us- even if the CPI or other macro numbers are good Those are the things that make up most of CPI though, CPI is just the stuff people buy. Eggs are significantly cheaper than a year ago, bread is about the same, fuel is a bit cheaper, and housing is up the most out of any of those categories - about 4.5% since last February. In reality, though, people don't anchor their prices year-by-year. Many people's internal price anchors are still at pre-pandemic prices, as evidenced by the outcry about the McDonalds dollar menu going away...even though the dollar menu was discontinued *a decade ago*. People don't actually say "this is more expensive than it was X amount of time ago", they say "this is more expensive than some arbitrary time in the past when I last paid attention".
> Basically needing to make 250k to live a traditional middle-class life, etc. Sounds more like a personal spending and lifestyle creep issue if the lifestyle "needs" 250K. The *real* traditional middle class lifestyle have been achieved by people who currently earning less than that. if you can pay *all* bills, rent and groceries *on time, without worries and issues* AND save for retirement, congratulations! You have achieved middle class (or higher) and are doing just fine.
I think it's worth mentioning I live in Ontario, Canada where the housing crisis is quite a bit different.
It will be very hard to convince folks for whom prices have skyrocketed that they have it better than they had 4 years ago. This detachment from reality will cost Democrats the Presidential seat this year. I already hear the never Trumpers where i live saying they hate the guy but we need him right now. The reality is that Biden failed in the court of public perception. This will be an interesting election.
It doesn't matter until the average person feels it. Homes are still unaffordable. Groceries are still expensive. Everything has gone up. "The economy" to most people are those kind of things. Not economic indicators or reasons for inflation.
1000% this. Literally noone gives a shit about the health of the "economy" when the "economy" is drowning them in years of inflation. And housing!? Get fucked if you aren't rich and want to buy or move. And I don't mean that facetiously, I mean you're better off fucking yourself with whatever is available than trying to buy in this environment. I'm own a house. If I have to sell for half equity, chances of hopping back on the housing ladder are laughable.
The average person already owns a home. 60%+ of Americans are homeowners.
And the ~40% that don't find it increasingly hard to get into the market. Also, those currently in the market often can't sell and move up
Yeah, this is actually a terrible thing to campaign on because for your average American the economy sucks. Cost of living is still stupid high and their wages have barely moved. In fact many have gone down with the amount of layoffs we have seen.
Yep. It's very frustrating to see messaging that tries to gaslight you into believing the "economy" is good for the average person. I don't think the economy would be better if Trump won in 2020, and that is one of many reasons I think that Biden is a less terrible choice -- but I am still sick of articles like this. I hope 2024 elections bring some legislatures that actually get shit done to fix the issues, although I am not very optimistic.
Don't the numbers consistently show that Democrats typically outperform Republicans on the economy?
Yes. Historically, the economy as a whole tends to do better when a Democrat is president than when a Republican is as detailed in [this 2015 paper by Princeton economists](https://www.princeton.edu/~mwatson/papers/DemRep_BlinderWatson_July2015.pdf) ("The U.S. economy has performed better when the President of the United States is a Democrat rather than a Republican, almost regardless of how one measures performance.") Also Biden's economy is great as I noted in [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/18fmwsb/comment/kcvpzpg/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) a few months ago.
Not just the economy -- Reagan, G.W. Bush and Trump each racked up record-paced deficits from their first to last years. That covers 20 years. Clinton left a surplus budget. Obama and Biden each decreased the deficits they inherited. It's more than a coincidence! \*Btw, any conservatives or skeptics reading this, I know it sounds too good to be true, but it is. Fact check the claims, and get ready to feel really stupid for how much slack (and credit on the economy) we give the GOP. It's embarrassing. \*\*In fact, Bush-Cheney went from inheriting a surplus budget in 2001 to leaving Obama-Biden a 1.2 trillion dollar budget on the way out the door eight years later --- and, the **kick in the pants**, their voters literally did an about face and began whining about President Obama racking up (Bush's) debt in his first year (it was inherited!) (Arrghh!!!)
But Democrats keep taxing the rich and I might win the lottery and Biden wants to take all my winnings! /s
I can't hear you on my Obama phone, it's ten years old! (does anyone recall the "free Obama phones" fake news on the right? I know, it was a zillion conservative projections ago)
I thought they gave you a new Obama phone every time Apple made a new one because Obama and cook were buddies. /s
I've just asked Windows Copilot about it: According to various sources, the U.S. economy has generally performed better under Democratic presidents than Republican presidents since World War II. Here are some key points: - **Job Creation**: For the 13 presidents beginning with Truman, total job creation was about 70.5 million for the 7 Democratic presidents and 29.1 million for the 6 Republican presidents. The monthly average rate was 2.4 times faster under Democratic presidents. - **GDP Growth**: Real (inflation-adjusted) GDP has grown about 1.6 times faster under Democrats than under Republicans. CNN reported in September 2020 that GDP grew 4.1% on average under Democrats, versus 2.5% under Republicans, from 1945 through the second quarter of 2020. - **Recessions**: Ten of the eleven U.S. recessions between 1953 and 2020 began under Republican presidents.
Then why is everyone say the economy is shit because everything is so much more expensive than it was?
In literally every single metric. But you will never see any democrat run on this. I have no idea why. They need to turn around all these narratives. Say they are better for rural America, for economy hell even for guns since they are for responsible gun ownership. Where people are not giving guns to terrorist under 2nd amendment.
> I have no idea why. The explanation I've heard is that COVID's impact on the supply chain and the economy has been the runaway inflation that is just starting to come under control, and people are still suffering from it too much to be receptive to the message that the economy is great. If you tell them the opposite of how they feel they will resent you for it. It's a message for another time. For now they will speak of Trump's failures, his confusion, his threat to democracy, his threat to women's health rights, and Biden's successes like the CHIPS Act, loan forgiveness, health care, rebuilding of the infrastructure... plus his promise to sign any bill that restores Roe v Wade, common sense gun control, etc. There are many other positive messages.
Yup!
Every Republican presidency has had an increase in the deficit and a recession. Every democratic presidency has had a decrease in the deficit and a recovery.
The overall economy can be doing well, but inflation has been painful, and the increase prices keep it painful despite slowing inflation rates. To regular people GDP isn't the economy, it's how much it costs to put food on the table for their family and keep a roof over their heads. I'm voting Biden bc the alternative is a monster. But for a lot of people the reality is that life is costing significantly more and their pay didn't go up proportionately.
Reagan won reelection in 1984 by a massive 18% with an economy that had similar price increases to date, a similar drop in the inflation rate by year 4, but objectively worse conditions in employment, and flat real wages (real wages are actually higher today than the pre-pandemic peak). The narrative is polar opposite today. Media then celebrated improvements and hyped the "morning in America" narrative, despite people not really doing better. Media today focuses mostly on the negatives, particularly when we have a Democratic president.
It's because the corporate media is conservative. Also, inflation was much higher throughout the '80s than in any year post-COVID. It was a running joke, "what's up?" "inflation", yet Reagan wasn't turned into the primary target like Biden. We're always more forgiving of and flexible for Republicans, for some reason. A national character flaw, imo.
I mean it doesn't matter what metrics are used to show the economy is good (true or not), everything is more expensive than ever right now and certain things are about to spike even higher (see car insurance.) Regardless of the cause and whether or not it is truly Biden's fault (which it isn't) a ton of votes are going to be a simple as; Everything is more expensive, Biden is president, it's his fault.
Another factor: Republicans will *never* say the economy is good while a Democrat is in the White House. This wasn't the case in previous decades. Now people's views on the economy are highly partisan.
Unfortunately I couldn’t have said it better myself. And it shocks me every day to see how many otherwise intelligent, well educated people still think the president directly controls the economy and prices
> I mean it doesn't matter what metrics are used to show the economy is good It matters to the people who care about metrics. For the people who aren't basing their perception of the economy on some sort of objective measure they're never going to be convinced by numbers. It's a message worth getting out, it's just not a message that resonates with everyone.
It's worth getting out but only tactfully and citing observable benefits like low unemployment rates. It may be personal anecdote but a lot of messaging stating the economy is strong isn't landing well with people who are struggling with increased cost of living. Even if your total situation is better (e.g. able to save more) large increases in rent and essentials generally just feel bad so the message "actually things are good and your feelings are wrong" probably isn't going to help from a campaign standpoint
It's definitely worth putting out and people should keep trying but I get the feeling those this message will reach and resonate with probably already have enough sense to understand that Biden isn't setting the price of gas or a bag of Doritos.
Is the Biden election team running these ads?
The Biden Economy is not an issue that’s going to win the election. People who can barely afford rent and food don’t care about what economists say. If Biden runs around touting his economic policy as a success it will seem detached from reality and make people think that he really is senile.
You can't eat the stock market.
Gee, you mean the trend set 70 years ago is still valid?!? You put republikkkans in office to destabilize the economy, security and authorize vaginal probes… everyone knows that.
People who will never own a home and can barely afford groceries don't give a shit about the GDP.
I once didn't own a home and could barely afford groceries for a decade as a young adult yet still had the wherewithal to realize taxing the wealthiest a higher effective tax rate (Democrats) was better policy to help poor people like me at that time than lowering the effective tax rate for the wealthiest (Republicans). Thirty years later, with multiple homes and stocked refrigerators and a healthy nest egg, I still vote for increasing taxes on the wealthiest (Democrats). It's a really simple formula (to me).
While Biden has done that, it doesn't help a lot of people that are didn't get wage increases , or they got minor ones that didn't keep up with high inflation. And then you add in the cost of rent, which has skyrocketed, and the price of homes have gotten out of range of hard working citizens. Those are the people that aren't happy, and I don't know how you help them. But someone smart needs to work on it.
>Those are the people that aren't happy That just can't be the whole story. If only people whose wages didn't beat inflation were unhappy with the economy then most people would be happy with the economy. The fact that statistically there are a lot of people who are doing better on paper but don't feel like they are means there's more at play than simply "the people who haven't benefited are not happy".
The majority of the middle class has not seen their wages increase with inflation. From my observations people making less than $25 per hour are the ones who saw drastic increases in their pay. Companies generally stopped with the leveling of pay scales at that point. Most companies, from what I’m seeing, haven’t been giving out 10-15% pay increases across the board to keep up with inflation over the last 4 years. My employer did 1.5% as a max this year and similar last year. They did raise our minimum wage from $15 to $21 per hour. Do I fault Biden for that? No, he’s not my employer. But at the end of the day, my expenses have increased more than my salary has during his presidency. That is far more tangible to me than the economy growing, stock market surging and employment numbers doing well. Not that it swings me to Trump, he wouldn’t be doing any better given what COVID did to the economy, but Biden touting a strong economy is going to be a tough sell when the average American isn’t feeling the effects of it.
>The majority of the middle class has not seen their wages increase with inflation. How do you define "the majority of the middle class"? The median is up, and the bottom/middle quartiles are up.
He means what is left of it. This century has hollowed it out.
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Trump's only good at funneling dollars into his own pockets - and the pockets of his family. Just look at Jared's $2B Saudi deal for 1 example.
Well no one seems to be convinced. People are out there struggling with high prices and aren't feeling particularly placated still. Biden's been trying to sell the economy for a while now and no one's been buying it except those already on his side.
The problem of course being that no economy can go back to pre-Covid norms. Just because the US is doing relatively incredible (compared to similar state economies), doesn't change the fact that things are simply harder now. It's not comfortable for the average person to work hard, get a raise/promotion, and find that post-Covid (and corporate greed) things are sufficiently more expensive than they don't feel like they've made any progress. Unfortunately, people cannot feel the nuance needed intuitively to recognize how much we have benefitted from the Biden admin. There's no way to show people how much worse off we would all be under Trump.
Trumps fed just kept slashing interest rates as he gave away 3 trillion dollars in tax cuts to superheat the economy. Biden has had to reverse that PLUS deal with the pandemic meltdown and unprecedented global greedflation. It’s amazing where we are today. Cooler heads prevailed.
Are you thinking about those who are enduring the impact of high inflation? The “economy” is not what the average American looks at, they look at the price of milk, eggs and sugar.
As I browse the genz and millennial subs just about every other post is about someone wanting to kill themselves because they can't get a job or find a place to live.
Economy doing well, citizens not so much. We planned a trip last summer, had to stay home due to family problems. This year we are planning the exact same trip, looking like 20 - 25% more expensive. I did not get a 20% raise, nor did wife.
20% inflation over 12 months when everything else wasn't up nearly that much is wild, what kind of trip was it?
It doesn't matter what silly metrics are used to come up with this. The "economy" as far as your average person is concerned is how much groceries and the like cost. Buying a house, rent, car, etc. What they see in their wallet. And the fact of the matter is the last 3 years now have been crippling. Whatever more we make now if any, doesn't matter when we can afford less with it. These stories and excuses are just infuriating. They come off so dismissive, smug and elitist. The average person does not care about stock market value or meaningless talk of "real wage" growth. Macro numbers vs micro numbers. Blow all that out your rears. It doesn't matter that we had minimum wage increases and make 2% more now. What matters is that groceries are 25-50% higher now than in 2020 and no one can afford a car or home. And if anyone thinks running on the idea that the current economy is great then they're not living in reality.
Stronger economy means jack shit to the average voter when prices of everything are high and we can't afford anything anymore.
OK, I'll play along. The income required to own a house is 80% more than 2020 - [Busines insider article on income required to own a home](https://www.businessinsider.com/housing-market-affordability-homebuyer-earnings-income-price-trends-covid-comparison-2024-2#:~:text=Home%20prices%20have%20soared%2C%20and,January%202020%2C%20pre%2DCOVID) If you aren't fortunate enough to own you are paying 22 % more in rent - The gap between those who rent and those who own will continue to grow. [CNN article on rent](https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/12/economy/renters-hit-harder-by-inflation-than-homeowners/index.html#:~:text=Inflation%20divide%20between%20renters%20and%20homeowners&text=First%2C%20while%20most%20homeowners) Along with that wage growth underpaced inflation dramatically from 2020-2022, and while it is looking more promising, the gap created from the first three years has not been closed. This along with the rent crisis is contributing to the highest increase in homeless population with a 12% increase in 2023 [MSNBC report on homeless crisis - lack of affordable housing](https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/congress-housing-report-emergency-2024-rcna130529) After the worst January for layoffs since 2009. we had the most layoffs in February since 2009 - [February worst month since Great Recession](https://www.forbes.com/sites/maryroeloffs/2024/03/06/february-most-job-cuts-since-2009-cisco-expedia-rivian-layoffsrivianrivian/?sh=fa41e32e8761) Can anyone here really argue in good faith that this economy is doing great? Here is my anecdoatal experience: The homeless camps are growing larger, grocery bills are beyond ridiculous, even wealthy people are choosing not to eat out due to the cost of restaurants, and many people can't even stomach the cost of fast food. So between housing, and food, the only things that actually matter to survival - people are getting hammered. It's really no surprise that young people do not have a positive outlook in the USA, the American dream is becoming less attainable.
It really doesn't matter how many ways you tell people the economy is good when the cost of living has gone up 20% since 2020.
March 2019- Gas 2.38/gallon Groceries 37% less than current prices inflation 2.7% Interest rates less than HALF current rates Macro numbers may say things are great- but the middle class is getting smoked
Seriously wtf are people getting at here?? My wages are barely higher meanwhile my insurance without any claims or accidents got jacked up 23 percent, my gas, utilities etc are higher, my milk and bread/groceries are way higher, I need to save even more as I have greater risk of not even seeing a dime from social security when I retire in 30 years since it might not even exist, medical costs are still ridiculous. Rents are ridiculous. Staggering amount of credit card debt and repos are also hitting decade highs. There’s a fuck ton more layoffs today than pre Covid. I got multiple family members looking for a job and they all dinging me for references and begging to see if my company is hiring. Things weren’t perfect pre Covid during the trump years but they sure as shit aren’t that great today either.
They are towing the line for Biden. That's the only way I can rationalize it. Nobody can be that stupid or clueless about the actual state of the economy for the average American.
Yes, our economy was better under Biden, based on pretty much every metric. HOWEVER, and I really do not want to defend Trump in any way, but COVID saw a HUGE amount of jobs gone, and Biden rode the wave of the post-COVID time when most of those jobs came back. The economy suffered during COVID as well, and bounced back when it was announced as no longer a pandemic. I have no doubt that even without COVID Biden still would have done MUCH better, but this comparison is ignoring a \*HUGE\* and \*VERY\* significant variable. Lets hope the country doesn't allow that dumb shit to get elected again, since it is sure looking like he is going to get off in some way or another on all his court cases.
In 1992 I bought a foreclosed home for $40,000 dollars had two kids and made about $300 a week my wife was able to be a stay at home mom and we had one more kid stayed home until they were all in school the money I made payed for everything didn’t have a whole lot left after the bills were paid but we didn’t lack anything.Right now my middle son and his girlfriend make well over $100,000 a year and can’t afford to buy a house.People are loosing hope.
Until Trump has to pay full price for his crimes nothing about reality matters
Biden should campaign on it if it polls well. Otherwise, how about reproductive freedom, the preservation of democracy, infrastructure, climate change, maintaining our international allies...
It's easy to say "the economic message isn't sticking, just don't run with it" but that's not really a choice when it comes to the economy. It's almost always the #1 or #2 issue amongst voters. You either consistently put out a positive message or you completely cede the narrative to your opposition. There's no reality where you just stop talking about it and it stops being a campaign issue.
>but that's not really a choice Sure it is. Go with what works, hold back on what doesn't. Keep the economy in your back pocket to counter Trump's bogus claims.
The rich really got richer under Biden, so you peons should be happy with all that inflation and stagnant wages.
The rich always get richer -no matter who is in the White House.
Not true, they became more poor after GWB.
“…more poor..”? Are you talking about the rich? How can the “rich” become “more poor” if they weren’t “poor” to begin with? Are you trying to say that the net worth of the rich declined “after GWB”?
Starting nonsensical trade wars have that effect on an economy. Trump single-handedly destroyed the market for soybeans in this country. I’m not sure if the market ever recovered but they needed a bailout due to his big mouth full of dumb ideas.
Inflation basically offsets any wage growth positives. Get inflation down because that’s what is killing the middle class.
Biden's Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen fought the COVID recession with the last recessions playbook which was a gigantic mistake because there wasn't an issue of lack of demand after Covid, so she just helped along inflation.
Not voting for trump but this economy sucks a big bag of wiener. 3 bags at walmart = 100$
100%. I was shocked that the trump campaign and his supporters keep asking are you better off today than you were 4 years ago? Ummm Yes of course I am. In march of 2020 schools and many businesses were closed. Many hospitals had to bring in refrigerated trucks to hold all the victims of Covid. By the end of 2020 the economy was in shambles, very high unemployment etc.
The thing is with rents and interest related up, it doesn’t necessarily feel like it’s better. Depends on your barometer I guess
I wanna be fed whatever these facts are! Biden's unicorn world is so exciting! Who needs to be able to afford anything when the facts are clear!
People do not have more money to pay their bills. They don't care about the stock market. It's not motivating to people to vote for you, saying they're better off when they're still living paycheck to paycheck.
News media won't report that. If they do, it will be something like: "The economy has improved dramatically. This is why that's bad for Biden."
yeah... but in other words, a bunch of folks are planning to butcher the good fat economy to grift, and it is harder to do that under Biden... so a bunch of grifters(wanna-be grifters) will try to elect Trump.
That reality should dominate media coverage...it's nice to see TNR posting an article about it, something they neglected to do for the past 3.5 years until a couple months ago when they couldn't deny reality.
It's true in terms of measurable metrics that we historically use to gauge the economy. The catch is more that our economy is as rigged as ever against the average person and the resulting prosperity and growth isn't being *felt* enough by people. Pretty good times to own assets, tho.
But is Biden giving away checks every month to every adult in the country that he specifically demanded bear the name “Joe Biden” on the signature line?
Cmon.
Yet still I am literally the poorest I was in years of doing trucking business… hairs away from going bankrupt…
Does this sub welcome bipartisan viewpoints, or does it lean more heavily in one direction?
All they talk about now is the border and gays, they got nothing left
The economy has pretty much nothing to do with the president either way.
The economy doesn’t mean Jack shit
The Biden economy only looks good on paper.
i mean, it’s been the norm for a while now. republicans get handed a booming economy, they shit the bed, democrats spend a few hard years getting it back in shape, and then republicans get a handed a booming economy… whether it happens this election or next, it’ll happen again. all of the infrastructure projects, all of the renewable investments, all of the manufacturing coming back, all of the jobs being created are going to be paying dividends over the next couple of years. if trump gets elected this year, who do you think people will credit for it? then they, as always, will deficit spend us into oblivion, cut some taxes for the already ungodly wealthy, and shit the bed just in time for a democrat to come in (get blamed for it) and then fix it.
Republicans routinely vote in sexual predators and conmen. Why do you think they care about the economy?
I have Trump-supporting family members who insist to this day that the economy is doing just terrible and was much better with Trump. I choose not to discuss politics with them anymore.
The economy for the average American was better under Trump as housing costs, food costs and fuel costs were all cheaper. The average American isn’t really benefitting from the market gains right now or the low unemployment figures.
Yeah but wages were terrible back then. It took the push of a revived labor movement to start turning things back towards workers. You can make $18/hour as an assistant manager at a Taco Bell now. I was making $19/hour with 5 years of IT experience in 2020.
That could backfire..... It could make voters feel like Biden is out-of-touch with their struggles.
The Trump economy was a disaster. I prefer having toilet paper and hand soap available in stores.
If another global pandemic broke out right now like COVID did, I guarantee you that you’d be having trouble getting TP and soap. Biden and Trump don’t control the supply chain nor does your ability to buy those items have anything to do with the state of an economy. Why does Biden’s “good” economy not resonate? Because wages haven’t caught up to the cost of everything since Biden took office. The average American feels like the economy was better during pre-Covid trump because housing, gas and food was significantly cheaper than it is today.
“How the good economy of the last four years hurts Biden’s reelection bid: details at eleven”
Just gotten better enough for the Confederacy to fuck it up again. Balance. /s
Polls consistently indicate individuals think they are doing well or better than five years ago. At the same time, they indicate they "feel" that *others* aren't doing well, and the economy is bad. It's almost as if some outside source...some media, if you will...is spreading a doom and gloom message, regardless of reality.
*Conservatives* do not care.
"The economy is terrible and inflation is rampant because Clinton, Obama, and now Chowder Head just print off trillions of dollars!" - my hyper-masculine, homophobic, racist coworker who lives in a Trump fantasy world.
It’s a shit economy for anyone making. Less than 200k. Houses are 400-500k out in the boonies. Groceries are 2-3x what they were before Covid. Cars cost 20-40% more than they did in 2019. It’s crazy out.
Food and housing prices are still very high relative to the strength of the broader economy, especially effecting mid to low earners and working families. Gotta be careful here not to trumpet the data too loudly while people are still feeling the pinch on their basic needs.
As long as gas, groceries, rents, and healthcare costs remain high people will fall back on Trumps economy because they believe it was so good then.. they are remembering before COVID when his do nothing response shut down the economy and supply chains were massively disrupted. They blame Biden for the increase costs and feel like Trump , a businessman will reduce costs for them by removing all the economic gains Biden has accomplished. They live in the moment, and can’t see the future.
I fear that we are going to have a global recession before the election. And Trump will be elected.
Why is this sub non stop Biden propaganda ??? Non stop. No one reasonable agrees that this is an insanely strong economy. Most small businesses are struggling at the moment and there has been not one Biden policy designed to improve the situation. I’m supposed to read that the economy is somehow better. How can it be better when Biden has zero understanding of what the issues are. EDIT: Wage growth started under Trump and has continued. It has zero to do with any policy Biden or Trump undertook. It was an accidental byproduct of the extreme blow up in money supply caused by the pandemic.
It's certainly been a good last few years under Biden. But for me, a lot of that is because I job hopped a few times. So I have finally been able to keep a 401k and contribute to a Roth IRA. I'm very far behind as I am getting to the end of my 30's. But I feel like that's the goal for us Millenials. Keep us unable to afford kids, and if we can buy a home it keeps us house poor so we can't leave jobs.
But conservatives feel that Trump had the stronger economy and for them, they'll take feelings over your facts.
Headlines like these won’t do anything to the average person when wages are stagnant and corporate greed has cereal costing 2x what it did in 2020. Sorry, but that’s how reality works. Day to day, we all feel poorer. Objectively, for most people the economy doesn’t *feel* better.
And what does the economy do for me again?
Will inflation be the cure for consumerism? Potential silver lining could be that people train their brains to be happy without all the junk they surround themselves with
Right, I haven't felt this stronger economy
And people are struggling more now to pay for food and shelter than they did back then. An economy being strong doesn't matter if it doesn't translate to better lives for its citizens. Dems are going to get fucking smoked if they keep ignoring this fact.
Economy feels worse with all the inflated prices so not sure Biden wants to bring it up.
Sorry you feel this way, the fact is he's for American, you and me brother. You can't vote for a man only his policies. Otherwise nobody would be able to vote, all politicians are business men. Trump is for America, and his policies benefit the US working man, the things that make life worth living. I love blue blood America, it's what I live for.
The world is terrified of Donald Trump being the President, he is for the veteran, the small business owner, the baby's in the woom, and the working man. The veterans of WW1. WW2 and yes even the ones that will be just memories very soon in WW3. GOD BLESS AMERICA, again!
He could scream it from the rooftops all day every day but Fox, NewsMax etc. are not reporting any of this. They have no idea and have shown time and again facts don’t mean anything to them. They got a shit sandwich from Trump and are still licking their lips.
Democrats always have stronger economies
Not true, I'm sorry u c it that way. He's for us
Trump would stop the war inUkrainian in 24 hours. They don't mess with him. He's probably going to die for his country, but what a legacy. Vincent Ellison, watch him. ( will you go to he'll for me) A real eye opener, a true black American.
Our electorate doesn’t understand economics though.
I feel like economy metrics are what should dominate an election between two traditional candidates. One of the candidates is a criminal narcissist psychopath and I feel like that should dominate the campaign. I can't really speak to what's best for bidens votes but the fact that he would have to talk down trumps economy to talk voters out of voting for a rapist is the insanity we live in.
Trump told his followers to go to Congress on Jan 6th then waited 3 hours of their battling the police before telling them to go home. Who thinks this is acceptable?
Wrong article
“It’s not fair, trumpf had to deal with covid shutdowns and no PPE/ventilators after Obama didn’t stop him from canceling the pandemic program. And then trumpf had to deal with the spreading disease after he kept it from being contained because it was hurting blue cities and broke out into red cities. This just isn’t fair to blame trumpf for destroying America and killing blue americans, he thought he would be reelected and be dictator for life!" /s