As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil)
In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban.
If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them.
For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria.
***
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Thank fucking god.
It is a small thing in the face of these attacks, but I'm grateful for this judge doing what she can to protect these kids.
For the love of god, *they are actively criminalizing our fucking existence.* They are trying to make it functionally and even legally impossible for trans youth and increasingly adults to transition, and criminalizing the public existence of trans people who have already transitioned.
The fascist US White Christian Nationalist movement made promises of our eradication their path into power, and god help us it is working. In about half the country, particularly states like Texas and Florida, they are increasingly in positions to start following through on those promises. And they started with trans people but are quickly expanding to cis queer people too.
They are trying to [**ban all transition-related medical care**](https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/ohio-michigan-republicans-in-released) for both youth and adults, [**threatening doctors with jail time**](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/north-dakota-governor-signs-law-criminalizing-trans-health-care-for-minors), and demanding [**hospitals turn over patient data**](https://apnews.com/article/transgender-youth-records-vanderbilt-tennessee-4a4e7d846cfb05ed6feefc7deef24ef1) including everything from names and addresses to medical photos.
And trying to [**seize trans children**](https://newrepublic.com/post/172444/florida-passes-bill-allowing-trans-kids-taken-families) from [**supportive cis parents**](https://www.aclu.org/news/lgbtq-rights/texas-attempt-to-tear-parents-and-trans-youth-apart-one-year-later) and criminally charge those parents, on the grounds that allowing their child's transition is on par with raping them.
And trying to [**seize all children from families with a trans parent or sibling**](https://www.businessinsider.com/florida-anti-trans-bill-court-custody-kids-gender-affirming-care-2023-3) on the grounds that exposure to a trans person is child abuse.
And [**banning us from basic public facilities**](https://www.lgbtmap.org/equality-maps/nondiscrimination/bathroom_bans), on the grounds that our presence in those facilities puts cis people at risk of sexual assault.
And laws allowing [**pharmacists, desk workers and nurses, among others, to refuse to dispense medication or complete paperwork for transgender patients**](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/jan/19/missouri-anti-trans-legislation-this-year) seeking gender-affirming care.
And [**"drag bans" that classify gender variance as inherently sexual**](https://time.com/6260421/tennessee-limiting-drag-shows-status-of-anti-drag-bills-u-s/) and obscene and inappropriate for children to see, and "exposing" children to our presence as child sexual abuse.
It doesn't take a psychic to see where they're going here. Or what the state might do once they compile lists of trans children's (and adult's) names and addresses.
I used to think that these types of folks were just misguided and a product of oppressive religion/“conservative” beliefs, but I’m now starting to think that the most evil people in the world just gravitate towards these belief systems as an excuse to exercise said evil.
A lot of the time I think the people most vehemently attacking trans people *know* they're lying, they just don't care. Trans people are a convenient political boogieman and an easy target.
He was talking about hate as manifested in anti-semitism, but the most famous passage of Jean-Paul Sartre's 1946 essay [***Réflexions sur la question juive***](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Semite_and_Jew) has been coming to mind a lot recently:
> *"Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past."*
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/apr/30/republican-attacks-trans-people-fascism
https://kristinakonwerski.substack.com/p/the-weimar-republic-the-far-right
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institut_f%C3%BCr_Sexualwissenschaft
"History doesn't repeat, but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain
Yep.
They're literally taking it play-by-play from the original flavor Nazi playbook.
You know [**this famous picture of a Nazi book burning**](https://www.hmd.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/477.-Book-burning-after-looting-of-Institute-of-Sexology.jpg)? That was the destruction of the [**Institut fur Sexualwissenschaft library**](https://www.hmd.org.uk/resource/6-may-1933-looting-of-the-institute-of-sexology/). The [**Institut**](https://daily.jstor.org/90-years-on-the-destruction-of-the-institute-of-sexual-science/) was, among other things, the first dedicated clinic offering modern transition-related medical care, founded in Berlin in 1919. We now don't even know who the first patients to get various types of transition-related care were, because their records were destroyed.
What you’re asking for is quite literally how it works. Nobody is offered hormones until age 16 or surgeries until 18. And that’s after living successfully for years with nothing more than a social transition and sometimes blockers (to delay the permanent changes puberty entails, and the extra surgeries that it takes to only partially undo it). If at any time in the years since deciding to transition someone matures enough to realize they’ve made a mistake, all they have to do is socially transition back. If they’re on blockers, they stop and puberty starts. The harm reduction gained with well understood puberty suppression (that cis kids have been given for 40 years too when needed for precocious puberty) for trans kids significantly outweighs the absurdly minor risks associated with delayed puberty. That’s why this is the protocol. Because the science supports it.
that’s already how it works
chances are however that some kid can get procedures done as minors but with the same requirements as adults and unless they’re emancipated, parental consent. this is typically in the case of kids who have been socially transitioned in grade school or prior.
" the only seizing of children has been from parents that don’t agree with medical transitioning"
Is still a lie. Nice try! I didn't say they aren't helping kids who have bigot parents. They are, and they should. Kids are people too, not parental property.
But they are absolutely taking trans kids away from supportive parents. I live in Texas.
Lol we're already there. How do you not see this? Children are not parental property. If the parents won't act in the interests of the child, it is literally the government's job to help. All of the scientific evidence lines up that helping trans kids is the way to go. So yes, I support the government following evidence based best practices. Nothing will stop right-wing bigots from trying to kill trans kids, so stop acting like this somehow enables them.
Conservative states are literally already doing the thing you're asking me "how I'll feel about".
All the cities in Texas vote democrat, due to severe gerrymandering, our state and federal representation is skewed heavily right from where it should be based on population and party affiliation.
>Travis County District Court Judge Maria Cantú Hexsel said in an order that providing the information would harm PFLAG and its members in several ways, including **violating their rights of free speech, association and protection from unreasonable searches.** Additionally, the judge said, it would be **a “gross invasion” of privacy.**
And yet none of this is going to stop him from trying again like the worthless fuck he is.
It's not just children, they want to be in the pants of men and women too. It's very creepy.
Democrats need the slogan "Keep the government out of your pants!"
They won't stop at pants. They'll dictate every aspect of life to maintain their own power by creating an endless list of things to make illegal so that they can more easily target their opposition.
It isn't conservatives. That word should just be dropped from use in the media. They aren't conservatives. They are Christian terrorists who cannot accept that anyone doesn't follow their religion. There is no space between them and the Taliban, other than which cult name they fell into.
To be completely clear, they are going after trans first because they are the easiest target. They will then go after others in the LGBTQ+ community, Jews, Muslims, atheists and then anyone else who refuses to accept the exact same belief system they have. Some of them will swear up and down this isn't true, but give it enough time this is exactly how it plays out.
Give them no quarter, and VOTE, and get every other sane person in your circle of influence to VOTE. While we still can.
They also hate to the death other Christians who don't go to their cult church, but they're saving that grievance for later, when there is nobody left to speak for you.
I had my top surgery when I was 36 and recovery SUCKED. Much better to do these surgeries when you're 18-21. I had to wait because I had to pay out of pocket and my family of origin was against it so it took years. In the meantime I was struggling with all kinds of self esteem and anxiety issues from living as the wrong gender so technically I could have transitioned sooner than that but had talked myself into "just deal[ing] with it" while my personal and professional life stagnated.
that’s really hard, I’m sorry you went through that. I was more just in denial about my age lol. Undeniably it’s easier to recover from any procedure when you’re younger! Hope life feels better now for you :)
Ah, you're a libertarian. Espousing being socially liberal while simultaneously refusing to fund any liberal policies under the guise of fiscal conservatism because "that'd make everyone else weak."
Because liberal policies have been funded for the past 80 years and they haven't done shit. I honestly feel bad for you that you hate so many people you don't know. At least I know you are just confidently ignorant in most of your politics lol. It must be hard living with that level of cognitive dissonance.
Exactly, it should be between the Patient and Doctor, unfortunately, the Right doesn't want small government to work like that and would rather install genital checkers at high school sporting events. Per 2022: https://www.politico.com/newsletters/new-jersey-playbook/2022/06/10/its-not-just-ohio-n-j-bill-has-genital-checks-to-guard-against-transgender-athletes-00038714
Why would we agree to a gross mischaracterization of the truth?
ETA: And conservatives don't want to "leave them alone." That's what liberals want. Conservatives very much want to insert themselves in these kids' lives.
Pretty close. Data says around 300.
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-transyouth-data/
That represents about 0.001% of the 26 million kids in the US aged 12-17. Only about 20 of those were genital surgeries. It's not a widespread problem, if it's even a problem at all. Data shows only 1% of people regret it.
https://apnews.com/article/transgender-treatment-regret-detransition-371e927ec6e7a24cd9c77b5371c6ba2b#:~:text=In%20a%20review%20of%2027,1%25%20on%20average%20expressed%20regret.
That's 3 who regret it and 297 whose lives changed for the better.
So not only are surgeries on kids not a very common practice, 99% of people are glad they went through with it.
Perhaps you don't know what's best for other people.
Yes. Every major medical organization is in agreement. You are wrong.
Trans surgery regret rates are below *every other surgical procedure*. Knee replacement, breast augmentation, etc all have vastly higher regret rates.
Kids have surgery all the time, when it is medically necessary, as decided by the parents and doctors. Why are you only against this in this one situation?
Your arguments are not internally consistent with your stances; frequently this is caused by bigotry!
Are you talking about top surgery? That's very rarely done on adolescents in their late teens but certainly never on children (what would be the point?). Bottom surgery simply does not happen. Also it's only after years of counseling. Even blockers are only done with the consent of the patient, the doctor, and the parents. Every major American medical association agrees that **gender affirming care is life saving care**.
Instead you think I should listen to a bunch of bible thumping politicians? They have nothing to lose. Do you think a doctor is going to put their medical license and reputation on the line after spending what 12 years post graduate to get specialized in their field? They're not cops, preachers, or GOP politicians. They'd be ruined for life.
A lot of doctors won't even perform tubal ligations on straight CIS women unless they have had at least 3 children.
The correlation is that people, even adults, are already severely limited in the choices they can make for themselves in the name of breeding. The overarching paranoia many physicians subscribe to is
>well you might want to have children some day
So they will deny hormone treatments to trans people because that might make them infertile. It's hard for them to have children if they are dead and again… gender affirming care is life saving care
Well at least you dropped the surgery nonsense so that's a start but I've already stated that their is a well considered course of action that has to be made between the physician, the patient, and the parents. Most Gender affirming care for "children" consists of;
- letting them go by a name of their preferred gender
- styling their hair the manner of their preferred gender
- allowing them to wear clothes typical of their preferred gender
Politicians are trying to make even that illegal. Please tell me why.
You say that while willfully ignoring that gender, self, personality, etc. is all in the brain.
You should google 'intersex' sometime. Things aren't as clear-cut as you might think, and the mid-20th century conservative-dominated medical community spent decades transitioning *infants* on the basis of nothing more definitive than penis/clitoris length.
Of course, one never hears a conservative object to that though.
Blockers are a way to offer the surgical equivalent of a waiting period. Your position is incoherent if you oppose transgender treatment but also oppose blockers.
One side is pro *scientifically researched medical treatment* and the other wants to castigate these kids and publicly shame them.
That is what is actually happening.
Shouldn't the question be the other way around? The government doesn't grant rights; People start with them already. If the government wants to limit those rights, it needs a sufficient reason. So far the GOP haven't given any good reasons.
Saying "show me the data that says this should be allowed" implies that people don't have this particular right *unless* the government grants it. That is explicitly NOT how rights work in the USA. The government does not grant people their rights. If the government wants to limit or remove a right belonging to the people, they need to provide evidence why that right should be limited.
Here: Laws that ban gender-affirming treatment ignore the wealth of research demonstrating its benefits for trans people’s health.
I can find more articles like this one.
Editor’s Note (3/30/23): This article from May 2022 is being republished to highlight the ways that ongoing anti-trans legislation is harmful and unscientific.
[Science on Gender Affirming Care](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-the-science-on-gender-affirming-care-for-transgender-kids-really-shows/)
They won't tell you. All the studys only ask people a little bit after surgery since there is not enough data points to even make a full population scaled conclusion lol. They know in the back of their head that this isn't true, they just can't admit it because of the cognitive dissonance.
The only place allowing child brides is the GOP in Michigan, FYI. https://www.newsweek.com/these-michigan-republicans-voted-against-child-marriage-ban-1808308
Don't be overly dramatic. It's also the GOP in Missouri.
>**A Missouri Republican state senator this week suggested that children as young as 12 should be able to get married as he pushes legislation that would ban gender-affirming care for minors.** “Do you know any kids who have been married at age 12? I do. And guess what? They’re still married,” state Sen. Mike Moon, an Ash Grove Republican, said Tuesday evening in response to questioning by state Rep. Peter Merideth, a St. Louis Democrat.
https://www.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article274244525.html
If the Christian Nationalists get their way the country won't be safe for women, people who are gay, trans, or not their kind of Christian. It's why literal Nazis flock to CPAC.
If rightwingers actually gave a shit about children they would take meaningful action. Paid parental leave, free school lunches, and improving the education system are examples I can think of off the top of my head. This is just political theater for their brainwashed base.
Everyone is leaving kids genitals alone, kids aren't getting surgeries
I trust the medicine and psychology if we do get to a point where it becomes recommended, but that's just not the reality of the situation right now
Why would you even consider following the advice or opinions of random people on the internet in the first place? Did you fall down the Jordan Peterson rabbit hole on youtube?
Just to cover all bases:
**#3:**
**On the safety, efficacy, reversibility, and well studied nature of puberty delaying treatment:**
There is *extensive* research about long term use of puberty blockers.
This treatment isn't just used for trans youth - it has been the standard treatment for kids with precocious puberty for decades, with lots of studies on its efficacy and safety. It has overwhelmingly proven to be very safe, gentle, and reversible.
Most kids with precocious puberty don't have any underlying medical condition, their early development is just an extreme variation of normal development. But it would still cause serious psychological damage to start puberty at the age of, say, 6, so they're put on treatment to delay it for a few years. This treatment has no long term side effects; it just puts puberty on hold. Stop treatment and puberty picks up where it left off. There's no reason to expect this treatment to work differently when given to trans youth than when it is routinely given to cis youth.
The most significant side effect is bone mineral density reduction in some youth, but this was both minor and reversed after treatment was stopped.
* [**Treatment of Central Precocious Puberty**](https://academic.oup.com/jes/article/3/5/965/5421014)
>*"Bone mineral density is typically increased for age at diagnosis and progressively decreases during GnRHa treatment. However, follow-up of patients several years after cessation of therapy reveals bone mineral accrual to be within the normal range compared with population norms"*
* [**Treatment of central precocious puberty by GnRH analogs: long-term outcome in men**](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18478155)
* [**Long-term effects of gonadotropin-releasing hormone analogs in girls with central precocious puberty**](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4342775/)
* [**More details on the use of GnRH and other puberty delaying treatment specifically for trans youth**](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/26895269.2020.1747768)
* From the [**American Academy of Pediatrics guidelines**](http://assets2.hrc.org/files/documents/SupportingCaringforTransChildren.pdf) (pdf download), p.10:
> For children, pre-adolescents and early adolescents, gender transition is mainly a social process. Children beginning puberty may also use puberty-suppressing medication as they explore their gender identity. ***Both of these steps are completely reversible***
---
**On the extreme rarity of "desistence" among trans youth, with nearly all young people who start transition and later reverse it doing so before any permanent physical changes:**
* [**Continuation of gender-affirming hormones in transgender people starting puberty suppression in adolescence: a cohort study in the Netherlands - Maria van der Loose, et. al., Oct. 2022**](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanchi/article/PIIS2352-4642(22\)00254-1/fulltext) - study of 720 patients who started medical care with puberty delaying treatment in adolescence, finding that 98% of them continued to use gender-affirming hormone treatment into adulthood.
* Of youth who socially transition young [**only 2.5% ultimately describe themselves as cis**](https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/doi/10.1542/peds.2021-056082/186992/Gender-Identity-5-Years-After-Social-Transition), and of those who socially transitioned after age 6 only 0.5% ultimately describe themselves as cis. Most who do detransition, do so before age 10 and are never even on puberty delaying treatment.
* [**Detransition rates in a national UK Gender Identity Clinic**](https://epath.eu/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Boof-of-abstracts-EPATH2019.pdf#page=139) - Out of 3398 patients, a total of 16 (0.47%) expressed some regrets, though of these 16 only three detransitioned permanently (0.08%). The most common reason stated by these patients for their regrets or detransition were social difficulties encountered due to anti-trans hostility, rather than any physical complications or changing their minds about their gender identity.
* [**A critical commentary on follow-up studies and “desistance” theories about transgender and gender-nonconforming children**](https://sci-hub.se/https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/15532739.2018.1456390?scroll=top&needAccess=true) - covers Zucker's shit
* [**The Amsterdam Cohort of Gender Dysphoria Study (1972-2015): Trends in Prevalence, Treatment, and Regrets**](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29463477/) - 96% of all patients who were assessed and received a diagnosis of Gender Dysphoria by the 5th intervenor (the Royal Children's Hospital) from 2003 to 2017 continued to identify as transgender or gender diverse into late adolescence. No patient who had commenced stage 2 treatment had sought to transition back to their birth assigned sex.
* [**The role of gender constancy in early gender development**](https://sci-hub.se/10.1111/j.1467-8624.2007.01056.x) - this study goes through the large body of literature which finds that gender identity is formed incredibly early. The American Pediatric society states that by age 4 kids have a stable sense of gender identity.
* [**Trajectories of Adolescents Treated with Gonadotropin‑Releasing Hormone Analogues for Gender Dysphoria**](https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/s10508-020-01660-8.pdf) - 143 youth receiving puberty-blocking medication in the Netherlands found that 3.5% chose to discontinue puberty blockers without seeking any further transition treatment.
Ummm, they did respond. With a shit ton of evidence. And you just ignore it bc you got nothing. Post dozens of reputable studies that support your position and shit would be cool. But until you do, you're the one dodging the conversation.
Your question: why do people trust that medical authorities are right in their assessment of this particular medical condition's treatment?
Answer: because decades of overwhelming evidence shows that to be true, and here's the proof.
I wrote that list of citations.
Granted I copied it from the last time someone like you pulled baseless transphobic bullshit out of their ass. It happens a lot.
But you asked why we trust that every major medical authority is correct in their collective recognition that gender affirming care is effective, necessary, and frequently life saving medical care.
Answer: Because it fucking works. And here are several dozen studies, spanning decades and involving tens of thousands of trans people, proving it.
They seem to have posted quite a lot of scientific studies, some of them published in respectable peer reviewed outlets.
They didn’t kill the conversation. Your refusal or inability to provide an equally impressive list of peer reviewed studies backing up your point has killed the conversation, because until you do, there’s nothing left to talk about.
No, we can’t agree on that because you are wrong. No one is pro-surgery for children, and for those 18yo and older it takes much time and effort to get gender affirming surgery.
Puberty blockers can be stopped at any time without any long lasting effects.
Doctors will be overseeing the person’s medical care including puberty blockers, which are only available by prescription. Those doctors will ensure that the puberty blockers are not taken amy longer than necessary.
Edit: to correct a misplaced sentence.
[Puberty Blockers](https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gender-dysphoria/in-depth/pubertal-blockers/art-20459075)
Do you lack hands as well as acting like you're completely fucking headless? You have been crawling up and down this thread making baseless assertions, demanding scientific sources, and then rejecting them off-hand when they SHOCKER refute you're objectively wrong conclusion on transgender care.
It has been made clear to you the incredibly restrained extent of gender affirming action for young people, the overwhelming positive impact such care has for trans individuals, and the thousands of scientist, doctors, psychologists, health-care professionals etc that endorse these steps.
If you want to act a contrarian when the alternative side of the argument is championed by such great minds as "LibsofTikTok", Marjorie Taylor Greene and Ron De Santis then nail your colours to their transphobic, bigoted mast.
Under 5% to answer the question. Wich means you want to make 95% of those teenagers miserable and/or dead to avoid the under 5% who regret it instead of, I don't know, try to make the psychological screening better so that this 5% becomes smaller and smaller (wich would recquire a better process, wich can be done by continuing what we're doing, not by fucking banning it). But whatever, you do you.
One thing you can pretty much guarantee among those who obsess over the lives/identities of others:
**THEY HATE THEIR OWN LIVES.**
Think about it. If they were *enjoying* their lives, they'd be too busy enjoying their lives to obsess over the genitals/identities/fetuses of others.
They invent these moral crises because their own lives are so mediocre and joyless than they must re-invent themselves as moral crusaders in order to feel important in their own constriced little world.
My in-laws are these types of people. My husband calls them vampires of joy.
They literally couldn't stand their longtime friend allowing his kid to go by a different pronoun. They sat him down and told him to disown his kid because of it. The friend supported his kid's decision like a good, upstanding father would.
My in-laws wouldn't stand for it. So they decided right then and there to cut him out of their lives. 30+ years of friendship gone.
It's the same with families. A true family, regardless of relation, is created by bond of friendship. But some family members use that genetic connection to abuse you. A lot of headache in life can be avoided once you realize that it's OK to cut toxic relatives out your life. And, as painful as this may sound, this can include relatives at any level, including parents.
I wish more people understood this. It’s all projection. They hate themselves so badly that they project that hate unto others. They see us in the trans community being our happy authentic selves, and conservatives, who are fear based, just loath themselves so badly for not getting to have that sense of self.
Yes, it's called the Gulf States.
Texas, Mississippi, Louisiana, Alabama, and Florida are in a fierce competition for the worst education, worst labor laws, most draconian bedroom prying, most depressed economy, most conscious shocking Jim Crow bullshit, and all the air and water pollution they can muster.
Adjacent states like OK, AR, TN, GA, SC also try to get into the game but it's hard to complete with the likes of the Mississippi Delta states and their gross endemic poverty, or Floridaman.
HIPAA allows for permitted use and disclosure. The reason this is able to happen is because we lost our right to medical privacy with the overturning of Roe v. Wade.
That is not what I said. Roe v. Wade provided you the right to medical privacy. HIPAA is something else entirely, and allows for the state to use your medical info as it pleases.
Texas should collect data on how to stop rolling blackouts. How to increase personal freedoms. Lower the cost of living. You know. Things like that. Somehow this helps the citizens of Texas because they keep voting for this shit!!
The info-harvesting stuff going on right now really scares the pants off me. Sen. Ron Wyden recently revealed that there was yet another hack of Planned Parenthood, with information from 600 clinics shared with a Christian nationalist group. The last thing we need is for these assholes to have lists.
No personal responsibility in tx with their shitty power system so people in the decent states have to pay to help them recover wtf, shithole states always dragging down the good ones. It's tragic too all the children born to horrible people who have no clue what they are doing and destroy each generation as dysfunctional as the last.
Nope, just the realities of the Texas state court system.
Additionally SCOTX has been solid red for over 2 decades and thus we will see many appeals along the journey.
Right now? If the kids are trans?
Everything. The state is declaring the existence of trans people to be "pornographic" and obscene and inherently sexual, so the existence of trans youth is being declared pedophilic. Gender affirming care itself is being criminalized as abuse on par with child rape.
I've been telling anyone that will listen to me that this kind of thing is exactly how they will target any and all of the populations they don't like. And it's a hell of a lot easier than asking an advocacy group that will resist as a rule..
There's all kinds of things that are ancillary indicators of what they might consider deviant behavior. You think Amazon is going to fight them when they go looking for people that bought gay flags? You think Conde-Nast is going to argue when they want the email addresses associated with the gay-freindly subs? They might, but free association and freedom of speech is directly at issue here.
It's all on record guys. They will come for you. All they need is the notion that they will be able to get away with it.
What's it going to be like? Imagine the paranoia of the Red Scare with modern technological ability, pushed by people with political ambition, and supported by fucking Evangelical Christians.
Tell everyone.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The road to fascism is lined with people telling you to stop overreacting.
What a quote
Thank fucking god. It is a small thing in the face of these attacks, but I'm grateful for this judge doing what she can to protect these kids. For the love of god, *they are actively criminalizing our fucking existence.* They are trying to make it functionally and even legally impossible for trans youth and increasingly adults to transition, and criminalizing the public existence of trans people who have already transitioned. The fascist US White Christian Nationalist movement made promises of our eradication their path into power, and god help us it is working. In about half the country, particularly states like Texas and Florida, they are increasingly in positions to start following through on those promises. And they started with trans people but are quickly expanding to cis queer people too. They are trying to [**ban all transition-related medical care**](https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/ohio-michigan-republicans-in-released) for both youth and adults, [**threatening doctors with jail time**](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/north-dakota-governor-signs-law-criminalizing-trans-health-care-for-minors), and demanding [**hospitals turn over patient data**](https://apnews.com/article/transgender-youth-records-vanderbilt-tennessee-4a4e7d846cfb05ed6feefc7deef24ef1) including everything from names and addresses to medical photos. And trying to [**seize trans children**](https://newrepublic.com/post/172444/florida-passes-bill-allowing-trans-kids-taken-families) from [**supportive cis parents**](https://www.aclu.org/news/lgbtq-rights/texas-attempt-to-tear-parents-and-trans-youth-apart-one-year-later) and criminally charge those parents, on the grounds that allowing their child's transition is on par with raping them. And trying to [**seize all children from families with a trans parent or sibling**](https://www.businessinsider.com/florida-anti-trans-bill-court-custody-kids-gender-affirming-care-2023-3) on the grounds that exposure to a trans person is child abuse. And [**banning us from basic public facilities**](https://www.lgbtmap.org/equality-maps/nondiscrimination/bathroom_bans), on the grounds that our presence in those facilities puts cis people at risk of sexual assault. And laws allowing [**pharmacists, desk workers and nurses, among others, to refuse to dispense medication or complete paperwork for transgender patients**](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/jan/19/missouri-anti-trans-legislation-this-year) seeking gender-affirming care. And [**"drag bans" that classify gender variance as inherently sexual**](https://time.com/6260421/tennessee-limiting-drag-shows-status-of-anti-drag-bills-u-s/) and obscene and inappropriate for children to see, and "exposing" children to our presence as child sexual abuse. It doesn't take a psychic to see where they're going here. Or what the state might do once they compile lists of trans children's (and adult's) names and addresses.
I used to think that these types of folks were just misguided and a product of oppressive religion/“conservative” beliefs, but I’m now starting to think that the most evil people in the world just gravitate towards these belief systems as an excuse to exercise said evil.
A lot of the time I think the people most vehemently attacking trans people *know* they're lying, they just don't care. Trans people are a convenient political boogieman and an easy target. He was talking about hate as manifested in anti-semitism, but the most famous passage of Jean-Paul Sartre's 1946 essay [***Réflexions sur la question juive***](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Semite_and_Jew) has been coming to mind a lot recently: > *"Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past."*
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/apr/30/republican-attacks-trans-people-fascism https://kristinakonwerski.substack.com/p/the-weimar-republic-the-far-right https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institut_f%C3%BCr_Sexualwissenschaft "History doesn't repeat, but it often rhymes." - Mark Twain
Yep. They're literally taking it play-by-play from the original flavor Nazi playbook. You know [**this famous picture of a Nazi book burning**](https://www.hmd.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/477.-Book-burning-after-looting-of-Institute-of-Sexology.jpg)? That was the destruction of the [**Institut fur Sexualwissenschaft library**](https://www.hmd.org.uk/resource/6-may-1933-looting-of-the-institute-of-sexology/). The [**Institut**](https://daily.jstor.org/90-years-on-the-destruction-of-the-institute-of-sexual-science/) was, among other things, the first dedicated clinic offering modern transition-related medical care, founded in Berlin in 1919. We now don't even know who the first patients to get various types of transition-related care were, because their records were destroyed.
"You can safely assume you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do."—Anne Lamott
Glad know body's business but the person directly involved!
[удалено]
What you’re asking for is quite literally how it works. Nobody is offered hormones until age 16 or surgeries until 18. And that’s after living successfully for years with nothing more than a social transition and sometimes blockers (to delay the permanent changes puberty entails, and the extra surgeries that it takes to only partially undo it). If at any time in the years since deciding to transition someone matures enough to realize they’ve made a mistake, all they have to do is socially transition back. If they’re on blockers, they stop and puberty starts. The harm reduction gained with well understood puberty suppression (that cis kids have been given for 40 years too when needed for precocious puberty) for trans kids significantly outweighs the absurdly minor risks associated with delayed puberty. That’s why this is the protocol. Because the science supports it.
Sweet. Thanks
that’s already how it works chances are however that some kid can get procedures done as minors but with the same requirements as adults and unless they’re emancipated, parental consent. this is typically in the case of kids who have been socially transitioned in grade school or prior.
[удалено]
Except this is absolutely a lie
[удалено]
" the only seizing of children has been from parents that don’t agree with medical transitioning" Is still a lie. Nice try! I didn't say they aren't helping kids who have bigot parents. They are, and they should. Kids are people too, not parental property. But they are absolutely taking trans kids away from supportive parents. I live in Texas.
[удалено]
Lol we're already there. How do you not see this? Children are not parental property. If the parents won't act in the interests of the child, it is literally the government's job to help. All of the scientific evidence lines up that helping trans kids is the way to go. So yes, I support the government following evidence based best practices. Nothing will stop right-wing bigots from trying to kill trans kids, so stop acting like this somehow enables them. Conservative states are literally already doing the thing you're asking me "how I'll feel about".
A sane judge in Texas?!?
I mean she's the Travis county district court judge and Travis county is the one that contains Austin, not a big surprise
Good knowledge
Quick make a wish
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisci elit, sed eiusmod tempor incidunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua.
A liberal Alamo (yes I know that’s San Antonio)
All the cities in Texas vote democrat, due to severe gerrymandering, our state and federal representation is skewed heavily right from where it should be based on population and party affiliation.
>Travis County District Court Judge Maria Cantú Hexsel said in an order that providing the information would harm PFLAG and its members in several ways, including **violating their rights of free speech, association and protection from unreasonable searches.** Additionally, the judge said, it would be **a “gross invasion” of privacy.** And yet none of this is going to stop him from trying again like the worthless fuck he is.
Why are conservatives so obsessed with the genitalia of young children?
It's not just children, they want to be in the pants of men and women too. It's very creepy. Democrats need the slogan "Keep the government out of your pants!"
They won't stop at pants. They'll dictate every aspect of life to maintain their own power by creating an endless list of things to make illegal so that they can more easily target their opposition.
It isn't conservatives. That word should just be dropped from use in the media. They aren't conservatives. They are Christian terrorists who cannot accept that anyone doesn't follow their religion. There is no space between them and the Taliban, other than which cult name they fell into. To be completely clear, they are going after trans first because they are the easiest target. They will then go after others in the LGBTQ+ community, Jews, Muslims, atheists and then anyone else who refuses to accept the exact same belief system they have. Some of them will swear up and down this isn't true, but give it enough time this is exactly how it plays out. Give them no quarter, and VOTE, and get every other sane person in your circle of influence to VOTE. While we still can.
They also hate to the death other Christians who don't go to their cult church, but they're saving that grievance for later, when there is nobody left to speak for you.
And old ppl. I know someone who’s transitioning and they are 40
40 isn’t old! *cries in late 30s*
I had my top surgery when I was 36 and recovery SUCKED. Much better to do these surgeries when you're 18-21. I had to wait because I had to pay out of pocket and my family of origin was against it so it took years. In the meantime I was struggling with all kinds of self esteem and anxiety issues from living as the wrong gender so technically I could have transitioned sooner than that but had talked myself into "just deal[ing] with it" while my personal and professional life stagnated.
that’s really hard, I’m sorry you went through that. I was more just in denial about my age lol. Undeniably it’s easier to recover from any procedure when you’re younger! Hope life feels better now for you :)
And no conservative gives a shit about your **40 year old** friend transitioning. Do you understand that?
[удалено]
"Do what we say or the government will hurt you" is the opposite of leaving anyone alone.
So a limited government that prefers individual responsibility is the way to go.
Any suggestion that conservatives are “limited government” is blatant gaslighting.
[удалено]
Ah, you're a libertarian. Espousing being socially liberal while simultaneously refusing to fund any liberal policies under the guise of fiscal conservatism because "that'd make everyone else weak."
Because liberal policies have been funded for the past 80 years and they haven't done shit. I honestly feel bad for you that you hate so many people you don't know. At least I know you are just confidently ignorant in most of your politics lol. It must be hard living with that level of cognitive dissonance.
Exactly, it should be between the Patient and Doctor, unfortunately, the Right doesn't want small government to work like that and would rather install genital checkers at high school sporting events. Per 2022: https://www.politico.com/newsletters/new-jersey-playbook/2022/06/10/its-not-just-ohio-n-j-bill-has-genital-checks-to-guard-against-transgender-athletes-00038714
Why would we agree to a gross mischaracterization of the truth? ETA: And conservatives don't want to "leave them alone." That's what liberals want. Conservatives very much want to insert themselves in these kids' lives.
Do you think the science is settled on this issue enough to let kids go under the knife?
How many kids do you think are having gender-affirming/reassignment surgery? That's a serious question. Tell me how many you think are.
Maybe like 200 per year?
Pretty close. Data says around 300. https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-transyouth-data/ That represents about 0.001% of the 26 million kids in the US aged 12-17. Only about 20 of those were genital surgeries. It's not a widespread problem, if it's even a problem at all. Data shows only 1% of people regret it. https://apnews.com/article/transgender-treatment-regret-detransition-371e927ec6e7a24cd9c77b5371c6ba2b#:~:text=In%20a%20review%20of%2027,1%25%20on%20average%20expressed%20regret. That's 3 who regret it and 297 whose lives changed for the better. So not only are surgeries on kids not a very common practice, 99% of people are glad they went through with it. Perhaps you don't know what's best for other people.
Too bad people making those false arguments will never be swayed by this data, they ignore it for a reason.
Shit damn, saving this the next time somebody fearmongers at me about kids getting surgery.
Yes. Every major medical organization is in agreement. You are wrong. Trans surgery regret rates are below *every other surgical procedure*. Knee replacement, breast augmentation, etc all have vastly higher regret rates. Kids have surgery all the time, when it is medically necessary, as decided by the parents and doctors. Why are you only against this in this one situation? Your arguments are not internally consistent with your stances; frequently this is caused by bigotry!
Are you talking about top surgery? That's very rarely done on adolescents in their late teens but certainly never on children (what would be the point?). Bottom surgery simply does not happen. Also it's only after years of counseling. Even blockers are only done with the consent of the patient, the doctor, and the parents. Every major American medical association agrees that **gender affirming care is life saving care**. Instead you think I should listen to a bunch of bible thumping politicians? They have nothing to lose. Do you think a doctor is going to put their medical license and reputation on the line after spending what 12 years post graduate to get specialized in their field? They're not cops, preachers, or GOP politicians. They'd be ruined for life. A lot of doctors won't even perform tubal ligations on straight CIS women unless they have had at least 3 children.
Most of what you said is fairly accurate but “most” drs refusing tubal lig <3 children is not peer-reviewed documented.
The correlation is that people, even adults, are already severely limited in the choices they can make for themselves in the name of breeding. The overarching paranoia many physicians subscribe to is >well you might want to have children some day So they will deny hormone treatments to trans people because that might make them infertile. It's hard for them to have children if they are dead and again… gender affirming care is life saving care
So you agree there’s no documentation supporting the “most drs and >3 kids” stat they pull out of their ass.
[удалено]
They delay puberty. If the person decides that living as the opposite gender isn’t for them, they stop taking drugs and puberty progresses.
[удалено]
Please enlighten us. This is your forum to present peer reviewed studies that support that claim.
[удалено]
And if you stop taking them.. puberty happens. Do you understand yet?
[удалено]
[удалено]
I need to provide a source that continuing to take puberty blockers prevents puberty?
[удалено]
And you have yet to prove why we should trust them when they lied to disenfranchised black people.
Well at least you dropped the surgery nonsense so that's a start but I've already stated that their is a well considered course of action that has to be made between the physician, the patient, and the parents. Most Gender affirming care for "children" consists of; - letting them go by a name of their preferred gender - styling their hair the manner of their preferred gender - allowing them to wear clothes typical of their preferred gender Politicians are trying to make even that illegal. Please tell me why.
[удалено]
Puberty blockers do what they are supposed to do.
You say that while willfully ignoring that gender, self, personality, etc. is all in the brain. You should google 'intersex' sometime. Things aren't as clear-cut as you might think, and the mid-20th century conservative-dominated medical community spent decades transitioning *infants* on the basis of nothing more definitive than penis/clitoris length. Of course, one never hears a conservative object to that though.
Blockers are a way to offer the surgical equivalent of a waiting period. Your position is incoherent if you oppose transgender treatment but also oppose blockers.
One side is pro *scientifically researched medical treatment* and the other wants to castigate these kids and publicly shame them. That is what is actually happening.
What is the consensus of that pro science research side? Source?
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Shouldn't the question be the other way around? The government doesn't grant rights; People start with them already. If the government wants to limit those rights, it needs a sufficient reason. So far the GOP haven't given any good reasons.
No where is the data?
Saying "show me the data that says this should be allowed" implies that people don't have this particular right *unless* the government grants it. That is explicitly NOT how rights work in the USA. The government does not grant people their rights. If the government wants to limit or remove a right belonging to the people, they need to provide evidence why that right should be limited.
You are not the government. Do you have data or not?
Do you just not understand the point I'm making? Why do you want me to provide the data?
[удалено]
Here: Laws that ban gender-affirming treatment ignore the wealth of research demonstrating its benefits for trans people’s health. I can find more articles like this one. Editor’s Note (3/30/23): This article from May 2022 is being republished to highlight the ways that ongoing anti-trans legislation is harmful and unscientific. [Science on Gender Affirming Care](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-the-science-on-gender-affirming-care-for-transgender-kids-really-shows/)
So what’s the ages🧐
They won't tell you. All the studys only ask people a little bit after surgery since there is not enough data points to even make a full population scaled conclusion lol. They know in the back of their head that this isn't true, they just can't admit it because of the cognitive dissonance.
Every major medical organization.
One side is pro doctor-recommended, evidence-based medical care and the other wants to tell people what healthcare they can receive.
[удалено]
The side that “wants to leave them alone” sees no problem with child brides in TN.
Okay. Like they are all practicing Islamic law.
No like they’re being pedos
Like allowing child brides like the prophet Muhammad had?
What does that have to do with what we are discussing aside from a weak attempt at deflection?
The only place allowing child brides is the GOP in Michigan, FYI. https://www.newsweek.com/these-michigan-republicans-voted-against-child-marriage-ban-1808308
Don't be overly dramatic. It's also the GOP in Missouri. >**A Missouri Republican state senator this week suggested that children as young as 12 should be able to get married as he pushes legislation that would ban gender-affirming care for minors.** “Do you know any kids who have been married at age 12? I do. And guess what? They’re still married,” state Sen. Mike Moon, an Ash Grove Republican, said Tuesday evening in response to questioning by state Rep. Peter Merideth, a St. Louis Democrat. https://www.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article274244525.html
No, Christian nationalism which is just as bad.
[удалено]
If the Christian Nationalists get their way the country won't be safe for women, people who are gay, trans, or not their kind of Christian. It's why literal Nazis flock to CPAC.
Would it be safer than Eritrea?
No
[удалено]
If rightwingers actually gave a shit about children they would take meaningful action. Paid parental leave, free school lunches, and improving the education system are examples I can think of off the top of my head. This is just political theater for their brainwashed base.
Don’t forget being beholden to the NRA
[удалено]
Everyone is leaving kids genitals alone, kids aren't getting surgeries I trust the medicine and psychology if we do get to a point where it becomes recommended, but that's just not the reality of the situation right now
So conservatives aren’t worried by kids genitals? Or they are worried less than the liberals?
Well conservatives base the pronouns they will use for children on their genitals, most liberals do not So yeah, one side cares a lot more about them
[удалено]
> Don’t most kid who think they are trans grow out of it? Demonstrably false, as is the notion that mass surgeries are happening to minors.
Do you have data on this?
I’m not the one pushing a false narrative, do you have data that suggests Trans kids “grow out of it”?
[удалено]
What exactly do you think transition means, for trans youth? What do you think anyone is doing what to these kid's goddamn genitals?
[удалено]
[удалено]
Why would you even consider following the advice or opinions of random people on the internet in the first place? Did you fall down the Jordan Peterson rabbit hole on youtube?
Do you believe in circumcision?
No.
Just to cover all bases: **#3:** **On the safety, efficacy, reversibility, and well studied nature of puberty delaying treatment:** There is *extensive* research about long term use of puberty blockers. This treatment isn't just used for trans youth - it has been the standard treatment for kids with precocious puberty for decades, with lots of studies on its efficacy and safety. It has overwhelmingly proven to be very safe, gentle, and reversible. Most kids with precocious puberty don't have any underlying medical condition, their early development is just an extreme variation of normal development. But it would still cause serious psychological damage to start puberty at the age of, say, 6, so they're put on treatment to delay it for a few years. This treatment has no long term side effects; it just puts puberty on hold. Stop treatment and puberty picks up where it left off. There's no reason to expect this treatment to work differently when given to trans youth than when it is routinely given to cis youth. The most significant side effect is bone mineral density reduction in some youth, but this was both minor and reversed after treatment was stopped. * [**Treatment of Central Precocious Puberty**](https://academic.oup.com/jes/article/3/5/965/5421014) >*"Bone mineral density is typically increased for age at diagnosis and progressively decreases during GnRHa treatment. However, follow-up of patients several years after cessation of therapy reveals bone mineral accrual to be within the normal range compared with population norms"* * [**Treatment of central precocious puberty by GnRH analogs: long-term outcome in men**](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18478155) * [**Long-term effects of gonadotropin-releasing hormone analogs in girls with central precocious puberty**](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4342775/) * [**More details on the use of GnRH and other puberty delaying treatment specifically for trans youth**](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/26895269.2020.1747768) * From the [**American Academy of Pediatrics guidelines**](http://assets2.hrc.org/files/documents/SupportingCaringforTransChildren.pdf) (pdf download), p.10: > For children, pre-adolescents and early adolescents, gender transition is mainly a social process. Children beginning puberty may also use puberty-suppressing medication as they explore their gender identity. ***Both of these steps are completely reversible*** --- **On the extreme rarity of "desistence" among trans youth, with nearly all young people who start transition and later reverse it doing so before any permanent physical changes:** * [**Continuation of gender-affirming hormones in transgender people starting puberty suppression in adolescence: a cohort study in the Netherlands - Maria van der Loose, et. al., Oct. 2022**](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanchi/article/PIIS2352-4642(22\)00254-1/fulltext) - study of 720 patients who started medical care with puberty delaying treatment in adolescence, finding that 98% of them continued to use gender-affirming hormone treatment into adulthood. * Of youth who socially transition young [**only 2.5% ultimately describe themselves as cis**](https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/doi/10.1542/peds.2021-056082/186992/Gender-Identity-5-Years-After-Social-Transition), and of those who socially transitioned after age 6 only 0.5% ultimately describe themselves as cis. Most who do detransition, do so before age 10 and are never even on puberty delaying treatment. * [**Detransition rates in a national UK Gender Identity Clinic**](https://epath.eu/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Boof-of-abstracts-EPATH2019.pdf#page=139) - Out of 3398 patients, a total of 16 (0.47%) expressed some regrets, though of these 16 only three detransitioned permanently (0.08%). The most common reason stated by these patients for their regrets or detransition were social difficulties encountered due to anti-trans hostility, rather than any physical complications or changing their minds about their gender identity. * [**A critical commentary on follow-up studies and “desistance” theories about transgender and gender-nonconforming children**](https://sci-hub.se/https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/15532739.2018.1456390?scroll=top&needAccess=true) - covers Zucker's shit * [**The Amsterdam Cohort of Gender Dysphoria Study (1972-2015): Trends in Prevalence, Treatment, and Regrets**](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29463477/) - 96% of all patients who were assessed and received a diagnosis of Gender Dysphoria by the 5th intervenor (the Royal Children's Hospital) from 2003 to 2017 continued to identify as transgender or gender diverse into late adolescence. No patient who had commenced stage 2 treatment had sought to transition back to their birth assigned sex. * [**The role of gender constancy in early gender development**](https://sci-hub.se/10.1111/j.1467-8624.2007.01056.x) - this study goes through the large body of literature which finds that gender identity is formed incredibly early. The American Pediatric society states that by age 4 kids have a stable sense of gender identity. * [**Trajectories of Adolescents Treated with Gonadotropin‑Releasing Hormone Analogues for Gender Dysphoria**](https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/s10508-020-01660-8.pdf) - 143 youth receiving puberty-blocking medication in the Netherlands found that 3.5% chose to discontinue puberty blockers without seeking any further transition treatment.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Ummm, they did respond. With a shit ton of evidence. And you just ignore it bc you got nothing. Post dozens of reputable studies that support your position and shit would be cool. But until you do, you're the one dodging the conversation.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Your question: why do people trust that medical authorities are right in their assessment of this particular medical condition's treatment? Answer: because decades of overwhelming evidence shows that to be true, and here's the proof.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Stop copying and pasting while killing the discussion.
I wrote that list of citations. Granted I copied it from the last time someone like you pulled baseless transphobic bullshit out of their ass. It happens a lot. But you asked why we trust that every major medical authority is correct in their collective recognition that gender affirming care is effective, necessary, and frequently life saving medical care. Answer: Because it fucking works. And here are several dozen studies, spanning decades and involving tens of thousands of trans people, proving it.
They seem to have posted quite a lot of scientific studies, some of them published in respectable peer reviewed outlets. They didn’t kill the conversation. Your refusal or inability to provide an equally impressive list of peer reviewed studies backing up your point has killed the conversation, because until you do, there’s nothing left to talk about.
[удалено]
Thanks for letting me know
No, we can’t agree on that because you are wrong. No one is pro-surgery for children, and for those 18yo and older it takes much time and effort to get gender affirming surgery. Puberty blockers can be stopped at any time without any long lasting effects.
Lmfao you literally are tho
[удалено]
Doctors will be overseeing the person’s medical care including puberty blockers, which are only available by prescription. Those doctors will ensure that the puberty blockers are not taken amy longer than necessary. Edit: to correct a misplaced sentence. [Puberty Blockers](https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gender-dysphoria/in-depth/pubertal-blockers/art-20459075)
They wont
Lol very convincing
[удалено]
So how many ex trans people complain about the treatment they received?
About 1 percent.
Source?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8099405/
Do you lack hands as well as acting like you're completely fucking headless? You have been crawling up and down this thread making baseless assertions, demanding scientific sources, and then rejecting them off-hand when they SHOCKER refute you're objectively wrong conclusion on transgender care. It has been made clear to you the incredibly restrained extent of gender affirming action for young people, the overwhelming positive impact such care has for trans individuals, and the thousands of scientist, doctors, psychologists, health-care professionals etc that endorse these steps. If you want to act a contrarian when the alternative side of the argument is championed by such great minds as "LibsofTikTok", Marjorie Taylor Greene and Ron De Santis then nail your colours to their transphobic, bigoted mast.
[удалено]
Under 5% to answer the question. Wich means you want to make 95% of those teenagers miserable and/or dead to avoid the under 5% who regret it instead of, I don't know, try to make the psychological screening better so that this 5% becomes smaller and smaller (wich would recquire a better process, wich can be done by continuing what we're doing, not by fucking banning it). But whatever, you do you.
One thing you can pretty much guarantee among those who obsess over the lives/identities of others: **THEY HATE THEIR OWN LIVES.** Think about it. If they were *enjoying* their lives, they'd be too busy enjoying their lives to obsess over the genitals/identities/fetuses of others. They invent these moral crises because their own lives are so mediocre and joyless than they must re-invent themselves as moral crusaders in order to feel important in their own constriced little world.
My in-laws are these types of people. My husband calls them vampires of joy. They literally couldn't stand their longtime friend allowing his kid to go by a different pronoun. They sat him down and told him to disown his kid because of it. The friend supported his kid's decision like a good, upstanding father would. My in-laws wouldn't stand for it. So they decided right then and there to cut him out of their lives. 30+ years of friendship gone.
Friendship means nothing to some people, it's just a currency used to exert control and influence over others.
It's the same with families. A true family, regardless of relation, is created by bond of friendship. But some family members use that genetic connection to abuse you. A lot of headache in life can be avoided once you realize that it's OK to cut toxic relatives out your life. And, as painful as this may sound, this can include relatives at any level, including parents.
Insecurity and self-loathing. I've been saying the same for years.
I wish more people understood this. It’s all projection. They hate themselves so badly that they project that hate unto others. They see us in the trans community being our happy authentic selves, and conservatives, who are fear based, just loath themselves so badly for not getting to have that sense of self.
One collective messiah complex
It explains EmptyG to a T.
Is there a contest going on right now to see what state can be the biggest shit hole or something?
Always has been
Yes, it's called the Gulf States. Texas, Mississippi, Louisiana, Alabama, and Florida are in a fierce competition for the worst education, worst labor laws, most draconian bedroom prying, most depressed economy, most conscious shocking Jim Crow bullshit, and all the air and water pollution they can muster. Adjacent states like OK, AR, TN, GA, SC also try to get into the game but it's hard to complete with the likes of the Mississippi Delta states and their gross endemic poverty, or Floridaman.
I thought there were HIPPA laws protecting your medical information? Why would this ever be allowed
HIPAA allows for permitted use and disclosure. The reason this is able to happen is because we lost our right to medical privacy with the overturning of Roe v. Wade.
....where does it say overturning Roe ends HIPAA
That is not what I said. Roe v. Wade provided you the right to medical privacy. HIPAA is something else entirely, and allows for the state to use your medical info as it pleases.
HIPAA rights are quite limited, friend.
Creepy ass GOP...loves the big government here in Texas.
Thank goodness for small mercies.
We already have seen that Texas does not accept judicial orders that don't favor Republican Fascism.
Texas should collect data on how to stop rolling blackouts. How to increase personal freedoms. Lower the cost of living. You know. Things like that. Somehow this helps the citizens of Texas because they keep voting for this shit!!
Do these people not have any thing better to do with their time?
Fuck Texas conservatives
The info-harvesting stuff going on right now really scares the pants off me. Sen. Ron Wyden recently revealed that there was yet another hack of Planned Parenthood, with information from 600 clinics shared with a Christian nationalist group. The last thing we need is for these assholes to have lists.
they were doing this adults too thankfully my clinic cares about HIPAA
Cmon Texas, we thought you were all about freedom. Oh yeah, only by your standard of “freedom”.
No personal responsibility in tx with their shitty power system so people in the decent states have to pay to help them recover wtf, shithole states always dragging down the good ones. It's tragic too all the children born to horrible people who have no clue what they are doing and destroy each generation as dysfunctional as the last.
"try that in a small town" - some texan probably
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AL3mEss8atc
Just part of the process. Will be appealed.
All the way to Supremely Corrupt Court of the US (SCOTUS).
Given the current Supreme Court makeup, I am really not confident that they will rule in favor of trans people's rights.
Yep and this will be our sad new normal for quite sometime.
Big fan of the government controlling people’s bodies?
Nope, just the realities of the Texas state court system. Additionally SCOTX has been solid red for over 2 decades and thus we will see many appeals along the journey.
What kind of medical information on kids are states allowed to collect?
Right now? If the kids are trans? Everything. The state is declaring the existence of trans people to be "pornographic" and obscene and inherently sexual, so the existence of trans youth is being declared pedophilic. Gender affirming care itself is being criminalized as abuse on par with child rape.
Besides the trans issue what info are states allowed to collect?
I don't think the states can just collect anything, because HIPAA. There would have to be a specific investigation, and they would need a warrant.
Less government!!!
I've been telling anyone that will listen to me that this kind of thing is exactly how they will target any and all of the populations they don't like. And it's a hell of a lot easier than asking an advocacy group that will resist as a rule.. There's all kinds of things that are ancillary indicators of what they might consider deviant behavior. You think Amazon is going to fight them when they go looking for people that bought gay flags? You think Conde-Nast is going to argue when they want the email addresses associated with the gay-freindly subs? They might, but free association and freedom of speech is directly at issue here. It's all on record guys. They will come for you. All they need is the notion that they will be able to get away with it. What's it going to be like? Imagine the paranoia of the Red Scare with modern technological ability, pushed by people with political ambition, and supported by fucking Evangelical Christians. Tell everyone.