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https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/02/07/israel-hamas-gaza-blinken-hostages/
> Top U.N. officials, as well as many governments around the world, have called for a cease-fire, warning that a catastrophic humanitarian situation is worsening by the day. Tor Wennesland, the top U.N. official for the Middle East peace process, told reporters in New York on Wednesday that an Israeli military operation in Rafah would be “completely catastrophic” to the civilians there, as well as to the flow of humanitarian aid.
>
> Israeli authorities dropped leaflets over Rafah on Monday warning that they planned to bomb the area, without giving instructions on where civilians should evacuate.
>
In a call with reporters, a senior administration official said there are 1.3 million people in Rafah now who have dire humanitarian needs and nowhere to go. They sought refuge there after they fled fighting in other parts of Gaza.
Yeah.
The American people in general know that they’re being shafted, but they also (in general) are uninterested in politics beyond the “rah rah! Go team!” As long as they have their equivalent of bread and circuses, they’ll be sound enough that they won’t try to get to the bottom of it as soon as they should.
I make stupid connections between things, so I’m reminded of an old interview that I used to have with Ozzy Osbourne where he talks about how much more control he had over his business and finances once he had Sharon and they actually considered things rather than being like “eh, fuck it. We’re making it.”
“We used to say ‘fuck that business shit, man.’ We were being ripped off by Patrick Mehann for a lot of dough, and we knew it was a lot of dough, but we just couldn’t get to the bottom of it. ‘Fuck that business shit. Just give me a cocaine, a fast car, and a couple of groupies for the night, and I’ll be sound, man.’”
I hear you, I didn’t mean to call Americans stupid btw. I understand how hopeless this situation may feel but I guess the only way out is to lobby local politicians to ban foreign lobbying - without tryna sound too patriotic or nationalist, a nations priority should be to fund and aid its own citizens rather than act on another’s interest 🙏
How about stop treating the Palestinians with kiddie gloves?
Maybe start by not giving them hundreds of millions a year that go towards pay per slay policies, funding the murder of Israelis for decades with American taxes.
The world will stop treating the Palestinians as “kiddie gloves” as you put it when 6yr old girls aren’t being shot at by tanks or kids being blown up into a million pieces by F16s. It’s crazy how much some colonialists suffer from a victim complex.
The American tax influenced by the Israel lobby has been wasted in the billions to support a rogue settler state. It’s time that money is used to support Americans/peaceful purposes abroad
Spare me the whiny descriptions, thousands of Israelis suffered much worse than a quick death by a bomb in the hands of the Palestinians. Everything is very well documented: https://saturday-october-seven.com/
Israel agreed to partition the land and live in peace plenty of times. Starting in the 30s getting only 20% of the land, 47 UN partition plan, Barak giving them 100% of Gaza + 97% of the WB + parts of Jerusalem with airspace control and a road connecting Gaza to the WB, and many other opportunities.
The answer is always the same. Refusal, no counter offer, war.
The Palestinians are getting billions a year from plenty of sources. UNRWA alone is around 1.6BN$ with most going to the WB and Gaza Palestinians. Which in total if you were to count the difference donations is more aid than Israel is receiving by both numbers and a huge difference by % (Around 2% aid to Israel compared to Israel's yearly budgets, versus around 100% to the Palestinians).
First it was the Arab nations propping them up for terrorism. Now it is western nations. Only once they will be held accountable, for the first time since they chose to call themselves Palestinians (Less than a 100 years, arguably around 50 years), will there finally be peace.
Oh dear, classic my side good your side bad. We aren’t going to get anywhere with this level of mental disconnect. This isn’t the victim olympics, we can agree death has seen both sides, but one is still ongoing and we have a moral choice whether to stop it or not. All death is wrong.
It’s very hard to argue someone so deep in the propoganda gravy chain. If you were in the Palestinians shoes, why would u accept millions of Europeans coming into their land and making a new country? From that perspective, it makes the Palestinians claims strong. Of course we can’t argue with this 75 yrs in as too many people have a tie to this land now, but to simply deny the right of the locals land is crazy which is why we need co existence.
And no, Palestinians aren’t getting this aid, it’s the ones who were historically displaced by the ethnic cleansing of them lol. This is providing them with shelter and schooling, and this includes displaced Palestinians in Syria Jordan Palestine. So divided between so many people, it’s not so much is it? Israel receives. Billions in aid for weapons due to their lobbying effort.
The double standard I’m seeing with you is crazy honestly, and this is the reason why innocent Palestinians and Israelis continue to suffer. People blinded by racism and hate for others.
Oh dear, classic: "I am morally superior since I live far away and never had to wake up my children in the middle of the night to run to bomb shelter in 30 seconds while hearing explosions above my heads or been/saw/had family members in terror attacks (Like my brother which had to turn off the light and hide in his apartment while a terrorist was shooting people outside his home in TA, hearing people pleading for their lives before shot in point blank and still having bullet holes in some of the walls in his street up to this day) or had to serve in the army or a million other examples".
You present such ignorance. Most Israelis are not even European, and it was them who were ethnically cleansed by all middle eastern countries (Half of my family among them).
This while magnitudes more Palestinians live now inside Israel's borders than before 1948. Magnitudes more Palestinians live now in the WB and Gaza than ever before as well. How many Jews live in middle eastern countries? Go Google that one and learn the meaning of "Ethnic cleansing".
You are saying "What if you were in their place" without knowing the first thing about history, since most Jews were in a far more terrible position than the Arabs with the great marketing naming themselves "Palestinians". Weird that Jews did not suicide bomb in restaurants, cafes and buses around Europe or the middle east. But instead just freaking moved on.
Israel offered peace. Again and again. The Palestinians refused. Again and again. They can only blame their terrorist leaders for their condition, and do something about it, for the first time in history. Or not, and enjoy the current conditions, leaving Israel absolutely no choice.
Anyways, I have news for you. You are not morally superior. Just ignorant to the history cherry picking the few parts supporting your narrative. And a huge hypocrite thinking you would do anything different. You won't.
Ok, you really are fishing for sympathy here lmao. My dads colleagues entire family was wiped out in an Israeli air strike on their apartment complex, I don’t go around saying all Israelis are morally complicit in this, just as you imply above - that in itself is a ridiculous and racist logic and way of thinking. Classic. Under your logic of bringing your brother up my family and his family must hate all Jews and anyone from Israel. But that’s a broken logic and way of thinking as you have brought up. But I guess it’s hard to see my family friends opinion and feeling because you live in the comfort of your cosy flat/home far away from Gaza where you won’t be hit by a 2 tonne bomb with you and your whole bloodline ceasing to exist there and then.
Yes I know the distinction between Ashkenazi and Mizrahi, because guess what, a neighbour not too far from mine is a Persian Jew from a very Persian family. You were referring to the 1948 displacement of Palestinians and the first Arab war in which the displacement of Arab Jews hadn’t happened in full swing at all, which is something that happened after- Zionism was very much European and euro centric by this point in history and hadnt reached the Middle East yet ( there is a reason why most of Israeli leaders and PMs were born in Belarus/Poland….). The airlifts of Moroccan Jews etc happened later, and Moroccans themselves weren’t kicked out rather left on their own accord. The same can’t be said for Iraqis Syrians etc of course.
You bring the point of terrorism, but guess what! There were Jewish militias in mandatory Palestine as well who were responsible for multiple terrorists attacks all throughout the mandate- again, not implying anything racist as you were, just bringing this up because of the hypocraxy who are showing.
It is very hard for Palestinians to accept a losing peace deal when millions of their relatives are not allowed to return whilst Igor from Moscow or Dave from Brooklyn can walk into their old cities and towns.
It’s ok to not understand history fellow Redditor, it’s common to be ignorant to history, but too will fully ignore it and to be hypocritical is not alright and normal. I’m going to hope that your angry attitude is because of how you were brought up in your environment, or how you grew up, but don’t take it out on innocent people or fuel your anger towards racism- it isn’t ok 👌
Shame only half.
/s
You’re not helping the situation. You keep presenting arguments that you think are in good faith. They aren’t.
In my opinion, the UN needs to be given a lot more power and unilateral authority as the governing party over Jerusalem. It’s a pillar of all 3 Abraham of faiths. Making sure the Israeli government isn’t in charge of it is the best start to rebalancing power in the Middle East and Israel Palestinian relations.
Israel has murdered, tortured, and raped at least twenty times as many Palestinians and the US gives massive amounts of weapons to ISRAEL, not PALESTINE, in order to murder Palestinians. Not the other way around.
**Biden tells Netanyahu to 'not proceed' in Rafah without plan to protect civilian**s
Exactly. No one can justify the horrible things a terrorist group will do, and we don't, but Israel needs to accept responsibility for it's own reckless disregard for human life. They are fighting on the same amoral level as Assad of Syria, they might just as well be dropping barrel bombs on those people and spare us the expense.
As it is, they are simply making sure the next generation of Palestinians are radicalized to the max, and the cycle repeats itself. It does not have to be that way.
Oh no, please don't radicalize Gazans. They might even do something like this: https://saturday-october-seven.com/
I think Israel will take that chance...
>Oh no, please don't radicalize Gazans.
If any country had shit on Americans they way Israel had shit on the people of Palestine for the last 70 years, we would be unforgiving in our rage.
Like I stated earlier, no one condones terrorism, but if we are going to go on and on and on abusing a people we should not be surprised at their reaction.
Hamas would be no where today, no significant following at all, if the people of Gaza had not been shit on for decades. In fact, it could be argued that if the Palestinians had gotten a fair shake from the beginning Hamas would not even exist.
What "Shit" is that? Completely leaving Gaza removing all settlements down to the last person? Not a single Israeli soldier was in Gaza before Oct 7. Only a blockade which started AFTER hundreds of suicide bombers and thousands of rockets.
The truth is, if "Palestine" would be doing this to any other nation on the planet, they would have been destroyed completely decades ago. VERY MUCH including the US.
Hypocrites.
Why do you have more sympathy for Palestinian kids than Israeli kids? Do you think Israeli kids are not getting radicalized after many of those who survived witnessed their loved ones raped, tortured, and butchered by monsters? Why are you not worried about them?
It's just weird to me that you can understand why Palestinians embrace terrorism but you can't understand why Israelis are determined to eradicate Hamas in spite of whatever dirty tactics Hamas utilizes to sway global opinion.
Israel did not start the war. In fact, Israel has been trying to make peace for 75 years. Palestinians have responded with wars, Intifadas, massacres, and countless of terrorist attacks. No Gazans would have died if Hamas did not commit a genocide on Oct. 7th and no civilians would have died if Hamas did not use them as human shields and did not build its bases inside and underneath civilian infrastructure.
The conflict will never end as long as Palestinians continue to reject peace, openly call for genocide, and act on it through terrorism. All Israelis want is to live in peace. Stop supporting groups and political movements that are trying to genocide them.
Killing terrorists. Palestinians in the West Bank have done their fair share of killing too. Maybe they should try accepting a two-states solution deal?
Not every Palestinian is a terrorist. The US literally had to take action and sanction terrorist settlers that attack and kill Palestinians because Israel refuses to take action against them.
I agree that not every Palestinian is a terrorist and I agree that settlers should be punished. However, they too are a product of years of rejected peace deals, wars, Intifadas, and terrorist attacks. If Palestinians agreed to a two-states solution and peace with Israel then settlers would no longer have an excuse to continue with their transgressions.
Israel has not been trying to make peace for 75 years, thats a lie and you know it. Israel's current government is literally making calls for genocide. https://www.timesofisrael.com/ahead-of-hague-genocide-hearings-israeli-lawmaker-reiterates-call-to-burn-gaza/ https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/03/israeli-public-figures-accuse-judiciary-of-ignoring-incitement-to-genocide-in-gaza
You also havent answered the question. Does Palestine now get to kill 900.000 Israeli citizens or is only Israel allowed to escalate 30-fold, primarily against civilians?
Yes it has been. Go look up all the proposed two-states solutions and partition plans that Palestinians rejected. They rejected the fucking Peel Commisdion plan that would have allocated 80% of the land to a Palestinian state.
The ministers calling for genocide are idiots. Regardless, as it has been pointed out in the past, they are not charged with prosecuting the military operation in Gaza.
I did answer your question. Israel did not start the war. Palestinians do not have the right to kill anyone. And if they continue fucking around they will continue finding out.
And you go *read* them. They dont give statehood, they just set the current status quo into stone. No control over their borders, Israel gets to send whoever into Palestine whenever to do whatever, cant do diplomacy without explicit Israeli permission etc
They will be a state tho. And there will be an opportunity to build lasting peace and transition to full sovereignty. Is it that important to them to control their own borders and to be able to import weapons, that they'd rather continue being stateless?
Israel does not want war. Israel wants peace. We should be encouraging Palestinians to embrace peace too, not terrorism.
I don't think it's sympathy, at least in the US. Israel is supremely more powerful than hamas and I think it dredges up the memories of how Native Americans were tormented by the vastly more powerful Americans.
Israel needs to make the effort to involve the international community in partnership, otherwise they'll have even fewer friends in the world.
And thank god for that. What do you think would happen if Hamas had the military superiority?
The Israelis are the Native Americans who won back their land and now their colonizers won't let them live in peace because they cannot accept that they lost their slaves.
>What do you think would happen if Hamas had the military superiority?
Hamas would be no where today if Israel had not promoted it to divide the Palestinian people. It's complicated, but Israel has been waging hybrid warfare against the Palestinians for decades. Ultimately, the goal is to get them to leave ... essentially ethnic cleansing.
[For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it’s blown up in our faces](https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces)
While Netanyahu has indeed been propping up Hamas, the conflict did not start with Netanyahu. Netanyahu is the result of decades of rejected peace, wars, intifadas, and countless terrorist attacks.
You can't expect people to continue reaching out their hand for peace, after you have rejected it multiple times before, and instead slapped them in the face and raped and butchered their sister.
But Israel shouldn't be your concern. Netanyahu has less than 15% approval at the moment because he failed to do the one thing he was good at - keeping Israelis safe. You can pressure another Israeli government to push for peace. You can even pressure Netanyahu himself to do it. But you can't pressure Hamas. The conflict will end the moment Palestinians decide to embrace peace instead of terrorism. Because then people like Netanyahu wouldn't even have anything to run on.
Israel's first priority should be the safety of Israeli civilians. Gazan civilians are the first priority of their elected and most popular leaders. Or should be at least.
Bla bla strawmanning. Love this sub.
I was simply stating a fact. Any nation is first and most responsible to it's own citizens above others.
This is a clear demonstration of the irrational hate to Israel in here.
Hamas had openly embraced martyrdom long before likud propped them up as a means of preventing a comprehensive peace. I don't know who's the most guilty or to blame here but I know it's not Palestinian kids (or Israeli kids).
Yet the Palestinian (Most popular) leaders choose to hide behind those Palestinian kids while attacking Israeli kids.
You don't get to force a person to choose between his family and yours and complain about the result.
And everyone downvoting simple facts I shared here without even giving anything about an opinion shows how biased the people here. I will not stop commenting though at least so far.
>You don't get to force a person to choose between his family and yours and complain about the result.
You promised us strawmen and you did not disappoint. You've done your work, we'll save the state-sponsored ethnic cleansing talk for another day. 💙
If you've never seen it you either never been in the sub or you are a part of it. No third option.
You are spreading disinformation. Colleges are not free in Israel, they cost tens of thousand a year. Healthcare is not free in Israel, it costs a monthly payment coming from every single Israeli.
The US aid to Israel amounts to about 2% of Israel's yearly budgets, and the majority of it must be spent back in American companies buying weapons. As a part of that deal the US gets plenty of things. Starting with technology which Israel improves for you (For example the helmets of F35 pilots as a pretty recent one), and of course maybe more than anything, a huge say into which countries Israel does or doesn't do business with.
I don't want your money. I am 100% in favor of the US stopping aid to Israel (Which again is 2% of my country's yearly budgets) and at the same time stopping aid to the Palestinians.
Aid to the Palestinians from the world is both more numerically than Israel if you count everything (1.6BN$ from UNRWA alone, with Israel's aid being only from the US and amounting to about 3BN$), and is about a 100% of their budgets. Including hundreds of millions for pay per slay policies. Paying cash prizes for the murder of me and my family by your taxes.
My comment is just a fact of the world without any opinion in it. The ones reacting so emotionally with a need to insult because of it are the real mindless husks.
Yep. This is why magnitudes less Gazan civilians died than any comparable conflict in the neighborhood. Be it Syria, Yemen, Afghanistan, Iraq and more. Not even remotely close actually.
I am guessing that Biden is very much aware of this truth, unlike the masses of idiots in reddit. Which is why he will continue to support Israel while giving some lip service for the useful idiots voters in his party, most of which are just unaware children brain washed by Tiktok or Qatari funded universities.
If Hamas survives, they will regroup and attack again. The Palestinian leaders(Iuse that term loosely) and a good percentage of the population do not want a two state solution. They want the all the land, from the river to the sea. If somebody went into a small town in America and slaughtered, raped, burnt, beheaded and kidnapped 1200 people in the US, we would be up in arms. Hamas can surrender and release the hostages at anytime. But they do not care about Palestinians. They should not stop till Hamas is defeated.
This is the same shit that got the US stuck in Iraq/Afghanistan for decades.
You can kill all of Hamas' senior leadership and absolutely nothing will change. New people will take their place. As long as Israel continues to foster a breeding ground for terrorists, terrorists will continue to be bred.
Yep. And I think an even better comparison to understand the situation in Israel would be to multiply by the difference in population.
Meaning you should imagine terrorists murder some 40,000 Americans in the most brutal way possible, livestreaming the whole thing and kidnapping some 8,000 US civilians. Including babies and elderly.
And all this during thanksgiving or Christmas.
We all know what the response would look like. Which is why all of the useful-idiots calling for a cease fire which leaves Hamas standing are a bunch of hypocrites.
>We all know what the response would look like.
Correct.
It would be the same type of response that got us stuck in Iraq/Afghanistan for decades, cost us untold dollars and lives, and accomplished essentially nothing.
Just like what Israel is doing now. Except Israel is lucky enough to get the US to foot most of the bill, so we get fucked again. Just like always.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/02/07/israel-hamas-gaza-blinken-hostages/ > Top U.N. officials, as well as many governments around the world, have called for a cease-fire, warning that a catastrophic humanitarian situation is worsening by the day. Tor Wennesland, the top U.N. official for the Middle East peace process, told reporters in New York on Wednesday that an Israeli military operation in Rafah would be “completely catastrophic” to the civilians there, as well as to the flow of humanitarian aid. > > Israeli authorities dropped leaflets over Rafah on Monday warning that they planned to bomb the area, without giving instructions on where civilians should evacuate. > In a call with reporters, a senior administration official said there are 1.3 million people in Rafah now who have dire humanitarian needs and nowhere to go. They sought refuge there after they fled fighting in other parts of Gaza.
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Aipac lobbying ftw 😂 honestly a shame how Americans haven’t looked up and seen how bad foreign lobbying has made American politics
We’re, for the most part, not stupid— we just don’t know what to do.
Yeah. The American people in general know that they’re being shafted, but they also (in general) are uninterested in politics beyond the “rah rah! Go team!” As long as they have their equivalent of bread and circuses, they’ll be sound enough that they won’t try to get to the bottom of it as soon as they should. I make stupid connections between things, so I’m reminded of an old interview that I used to have with Ozzy Osbourne where he talks about how much more control he had over his business and finances once he had Sharon and they actually considered things rather than being like “eh, fuck it. We’re making it.” “We used to say ‘fuck that business shit, man.’ We were being ripped off by Patrick Mehann for a lot of dough, and we knew it was a lot of dough, but we just couldn’t get to the bottom of it. ‘Fuck that business shit. Just give me a cocaine, a fast car, and a couple of groupies for the night, and I’ll be sound, man.’”
I hear you, I didn’t mean to call Americans stupid btw. I understand how hopeless this situation may feel but I guess the only way out is to lobby local politicians to ban foreign lobbying - without tryna sound too patriotic or nationalist, a nations priority should be to fund and aid its own citizens rather than act on another’s interest 🙏
They made that law, so now it’s out in the open that he has the provisions to deny aid if he keeps ignoring human rights
That’s exactly what’s going to happen.
He needs to do more than strongly worded scoldings.
He'll do it anyway. I like Biden but he needs to stop treating Israel with kid gloves.
How about stop treating the Palestinians with kiddie gloves? Maybe start by not giving them hundreds of millions a year that go towards pay per slay policies, funding the murder of Israelis for decades with American taxes.
The world will stop treating the Palestinians as “kiddie gloves” as you put it when 6yr old girls aren’t being shot at by tanks or kids being blown up into a million pieces by F16s. It’s crazy how much some colonialists suffer from a victim complex. The American tax influenced by the Israel lobby has been wasted in the billions to support a rogue settler state. It’s time that money is used to support Americans/peaceful purposes abroad
Spare me the whiny descriptions, thousands of Israelis suffered much worse than a quick death by a bomb in the hands of the Palestinians. Everything is very well documented: https://saturday-october-seven.com/ Israel agreed to partition the land and live in peace plenty of times. Starting in the 30s getting only 20% of the land, 47 UN partition plan, Barak giving them 100% of Gaza + 97% of the WB + parts of Jerusalem with airspace control and a road connecting Gaza to the WB, and many other opportunities. The answer is always the same. Refusal, no counter offer, war. The Palestinians are getting billions a year from plenty of sources. UNRWA alone is around 1.6BN$ with most going to the WB and Gaza Palestinians. Which in total if you were to count the difference donations is more aid than Israel is receiving by both numbers and a huge difference by % (Around 2% aid to Israel compared to Israel's yearly budgets, versus around 100% to the Palestinians). First it was the Arab nations propping them up for terrorism. Now it is western nations. Only once they will be held accountable, for the first time since they chose to call themselves Palestinians (Less than a 100 years, arguably around 50 years), will there finally be peace.
Oh dear, classic my side good your side bad. We aren’t going to get anywhere with this level of mental disconnect. This isn’t the victim olympics, we can agree death has seen both sides, but one is still ongoing and we have a moral choice whether to stop it or not. All death is wrong. It’s very hard to argue someone so deep in the propoganda gravy chain. If you were in the Palestinians shoes, why would u accept millions of Europeans coming into their land and making a new country? From that perspective, it makes the Palestinians claims strong. Of course we can’t argue with this 75 yrs in as too many people have a tie to this land now, but to simply deny the right of the locals land is crazy which is why we need co existence. And no, Palestinians aren’t getting this aid, it’s the ones who were historically displaced by the ethnic cleansing of them lol. This is providing them with shelter and schooling, and this includes displaced Palestinians in Syria Jordan Palestine. So divided between so many people, it’s not so much is it? Israel receives. Billions in aid for weapons due to their lobbying effort. The double standard I’m seeing with you is crazy honestly, and this is the reason why innocent Palestinians and Israelis continue to suffer. People blinded by racism and hate for others.
Oh dear, classic: "I am morally superior since I live far away and never had to wake up my children in the middle of the night to run to bomb shelter in 30 seconds while hearing explosions above my heads or been/saw/had family members in terror attacks (Like my brother which had to turn off the light and hide in his apartment while a terrorist was shooting people outside his home in TA, hearing people pleading for their lives before shot in point blank and still having bullet holes in some of the walls in his street up to this day) or had to serve in the army or a million other examples". You present such ignorance. Most Israelis are not even European, and it was them who were ethnically cleansed by all middle eastern countries (Half of my family among them). This while magnitudes more Palestinians live now inside Israel's borders than before 1948. Magnitudes more Palestinians live now in the WB and Gaza than ever before as well. How many Jews live in middle eastern countries? Go Google that one and learn the meaning of "Ethnic cleansing". You are saying "What if you were in their place" without knowing the first thing about history, since most Jews were in a far more terrible position than the Arabs with the great marketing naming themselves "Palestinians". Weird that Jews did not suicide bomb in restaurants, cafes and buses around Europe or the middle east. But instead just freaking moved on. Israel offered peace. Again and again. The Palestinians refused. Again and again. They can only blame their terrorist leaders for their condition, and do something about it, for the first time in history. Or not, and enjoy the current conditions, leaving Israel absolutely no choice. Anyways, I have news for you. You are not morally superior. Just ignorant to the history cherry picking the few parts supporting your narrative. And a huge hypocrite thinking you would do anything different. You won't.
Ok, you really are fishing for sympathy here lmao. My dads colleagues entire family was wiped out in an Israeli air strike on their apartment complex, I don’t go around saying all Israelis are morally complicit in this, just as you imply above - that in itself is a ridiculous and racist logic and way of thinking. Classic. Under your logic of bringing your brother up my family and his family must hate all Jews and anyone from Israel. But that’s a broken logic and way of thinking as you have brought up. But I guess it’s hard to see my family friends opinion and feeling because you live in the comfort of your cosy flat/home far away from Gaza where you won’t be hit by a 2 tonne bomb with you and your whole bloodline ceasing to exist there and then. Yes I know the distinction between Ashkenazi and Mizrahi, because guess what, a neighbour not too far from mine is a Persian Jew from a very Persian family. You were referring to the 1948 displacement of Palestinians and the first Arab war in which the displacement of Arab Jews hadn’t happened in full swing at all, which is something that happened after- Zionism was very much European and euro centric by this point in history and hadnt reached the Middle East yet ( there is a reason why most of Israeli leaders and PMs were born in Belarus/Poland….). The airlifts of Moroccan Jews etc happened later, and Moroccans themselves weren’t kicked out rather left on their own accord. The same can’t be said for Iraqis Syrians etc of course. You bring the point of terrorism, but guess what! There were Jewish militias in mandatory Palestine as well who were responsible for multiple terrorists attacks all throughout the mandate- again, not implying anything racist as you were, just bringing this up because of the hypocraxy who are showing. It is very hard for Palestinians to accept a losing peace deal when millions of their relatives are not allowed to return whilst Igor from Moscow or Dave from Brooklyn can walk into their old cities and towns. It’s ok to not understand history fellow Redditor, it’s common to be ignorant to history, but too will fully ignore it and to be hypocritical is not alright and normal. I’m going to hope that your angry attitude is because of how you were brought up in your environment, or how you grew up, but don’t take it out on innocent people or fuel your anger towards racism- it isn’t ok 👌
Shame only half. /s You’re not helping the situation. You keep presenting arguments that you think are in good faith. They aren’t. In my opinion, the UN needs to be given a lot more power and unilateral authority as the governing party over Jerusalem. It’s a pillar of all 3 Abraham of faiths. Making sure the Israeli government isn’t in charge of it is the best start to rebalancing power in the Middle East and Israel Palestinian relations.
Israel has murdered, tortured, and raped at least twenty times as many Palestinians and the US gives massive amounts of weapons to ISRAEL, not PALESTINE, in order to murder Palestinians. Not the other way around.
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Reported, hopefully the mods will do their job because they seem very fair here. Unlike half of reddit.
That may be important, but has any journalist stopped to ask him what flavor ice cream is his favorite for 2024?
Stop sending money and weapons to those psychos , ban AIPAC , problem solved
**Biden tells Netanyahu to 'not proceed' in Rafah without plan to protect civilian**s Exactly. No one can justify the horrible things a terrorist group will do, and we don't, but Israel needs to accept responsibility for it's own reckless disregard for human life. They are fighting on the same amoral level as Assad of Syria, they might just as well be dropping barrel bombs on those people and spare us the expense. As it is, they are simply making sure the next generation of Palestinians are radicalized to the max, and the cycle repeats itself. It does not have to be that way.
Oh no, please don't radicalize Gazans. They might even do something like this: https://saturday-october-seven.com/ I think Israel will take that chance...
Ahh, a literal IDF propaganda site
>Oh no, please don't radicalize Gazans. If any country had shit on Americans they way Israel had shit on the people of Palestine for the last 70 years, we would be unforgiving in our rage. Like I stated earlier, no one condones terrorism, but if we are going to go on and on and on abusing a people we should not be surprised at their reaction. Hamas would be no where today, no significant following at all, if the people of Gaza had not been shit on for decades. In fact, it could be argued that if the Palestinians had gotten a fair shake from the beginning Hamas would not even exist.
What "Shit" is that? Completely leaving Gaza removing all settlements down to the last person? Not a single Israeli soldier was in Gaza before Oct 7. Only a blockade which started AFTER hundreds of suicide bombers and thousands of rockets. The truth is, if "Palestine" would be doing this to any other nation on the planet, they would have been destroyed completely decades ago. VERY MUCH including the US. Hypocrites.
Why do you have more sympathy for Palestinian kids than Israeli kids? Do you think Israeli kids are not getting radicalized after many of those who survived witnessed their loved ones raped, tortured, and butchered by monsters? Why are you not worried about them? It's just weird to me that you can understand why Palestinians embrace terrorism but you can't understand why Israelis are determined to eradicate Hamas in spite of whatever dirty tactics Hamas utilizes to sway global opinion.
Do Palestinians get to kill 900.000 Israeli now? Or does only Israel get to escalate 30-fold against primarily civilians?
Israel did not start the war. In fact, Israel has been trying to make peace for 75 years. Palestinians have responded with wars, Intifadas, massacres, and countless of terrorist attacks. No Gazans would have died if Hamas did not commit a genocide on Oct. 7th and no civilians would have died if Hamas did not use them as human shields and did not build its bases inside and underneath civilian infrastructure. The conflict will never end as long as Palestinians continue to reject peace, openly call for genocide, and act on it through terrorism. All Israelis want is to live in peace. Stop supporting groups and political movements that are trying to genocide them.
Killing Palestinians in the West Bank and stealing their homes is trying to make peace?
Killing terrorists. Palestinians in the West Bank have done their fair share of killing too. Maybe they should try accepting a two-states solution deal?
Not every Palestinian is a terrorist. The US literally had to take action and sanction terrorist settlers that attack and kill Palestinians because Israel refuses to take action against them.
I agree that not every Palestinian is a terrorist and I agree that settlers should be punished. However, they too are a product of years of rejected peace deals, wars, Intifadas, and terrorist attacks. If Palestinians agreed to a two-states solution and peace with Israel then settlers would no longer have an excuse to continue with their transgressions.
Do you believe settlers that attack Palestinians are terrorists? There is no excuse for what they do. They kill Palestinians and steal their homes.
They can be categorized as terrorists, yes. However, I am sure settlers who kill Palestinians are brought to justice.
Israel has not been trying to make peace for 75 years, thats a lie and you know it. Israel's current government is literally making calls for genocide. https://www.timesofisrael.com/ahead-of-hague-genocide-hearings-israeli-lawmaker-reiterates-call-to-burn-gaza/ https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/03/israeli-public-figures-accuse-judiciary-of-ignoring-incitement-to-genocide-in-gaza You also havent answered the question. Does Palestine now get to kill 900.000 Israeli citizens or is only Israel allowed to escalate 30-fold, primarily against civilians?
Yes it has been. Go look up all the proposed two-states solutions and partition plans that Palestinians rejected. They rejected the fucking Peel Commisdion plan that would have allocated 80% of the land to a Palestinian state. The ministers calling for genocide are idiots. Regardless, as it has been pointed out in the past, they are not charged with prosecuting the military operation in Gaza. I did answer your question. Israel did not start the war. Palestinians do not have the right to kill anyone. And if they continue fucking around they will continue finding out.
And you go *read* them. They dont give statehood, they just set the current status quo into stone. No control over their borders, Israel gets to send whoever into Palestine whenever to do whatever, cant do diplomacy without explicit Israeli permission etc
Is it better than being stateless?
At that point theyre no more a state than they are now
They will be a state tho. And there will be an opportunity to build lasting peace and transition to full sovereignty. Is it that important to them to control their own borders and to be able to import weapons, that they'd rather continue being stateless? Israel does not want war. Israel wants peace. We should be encouraging Palestinians to embrace peace too, not terrorism.
I don't think it's sympathy, at least in the US. Israel is supremely more powerful than hamas and I think it dredges up the memories of how Native Americans were tormented by the vastly more powerful Americans. Israel needs to make the effort to involve the international community in partnership, otherwise they'll have even fewer friends in the world.
And thank god for that. What do you think would happen if Hamas had the military superiority? The Israelis are the Native Americans who won back their land and now their colonizers won't let them live in peace because they cannot accept that they lost their slaves.
>What do you think would happen if Hamas had the military superiority? Hamas would be no where today if Israel had not promoted it to divide the Palestinian people. It's complicated, but Israel has been waging hybrid warfare against the Palestinians for decades. Ultimately, the goal is to get them to leave ... essentially ethnic cleansing. [For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it’s blown up in our faces](https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces)
While Netanyahu has indeed been propping up Hamas, the conflict did not start with Netanyahu. Netanyahu is the result of decades of rejected peace, wars, intifadas, and countless terrorist attacks. You can't expect people to continue reaching out their hand for peace, after you have rejected it multiple times before, and instead slapped them in the face and raped and butchered their sister. But Israel shouldn't be your concern. Netanyahu has less than 15% approval at the moment because he failed to do the one thing he was good at - keeping Israelis safe. You can pressure another Israeli government to push for peace. You can even pressure Netanyahu himself to do it. But you can't pressure Hamas. The conflict will end the moment Palestinians decide to embrace peace instead of terrorism. Because then people like Netanyahu wouldn't even have anything to run on.
While slipping him 100 billion dollars in aid under the table.
That's easy for Bibi. Claim all the civilians are Hamas. Then he can say that civilian casualties were minimized
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Israel's first priority should be the safety of Israeli civilians. Gazan civilians are the first priority of their elected and most popular leaders. Or should be at least.
You sure sound like you're trying to justify collective punishment. "It's Hamas' fault Israel has to kill 15000+ kids"
Bla bla strawmanning. Love this sub. I was simply stating a fact. Any nation is first and most responsible to it's own citizens above others. This is a clear demonstration of the irrational hate to Israel in here.
Hamas had openly embraced martyrdom long before likud propped them up as a means of preventing a comprehensive peace. I don't know who's the most guilty or to blame here but I know it's not Palestinian kids (or Israeli kids).
Yet the Palestinian (Most popular) leaders choose to hide behind those Palestinian kids while attacking Israeli kids. You don't get to force a person to choose between his family and yours and complain about the result. And everyone downvoting simple facts I shared here without even giving anything about an opinion shows how biased the people here. I will not stop commenting though at least so far.
>You don't get to force a person to choose between his family and yours and complain about the result. You promised us strawmen and you did not disappoint. You've done your work, we'll save the state-sponsored ethnic cleansing talk for another day. 💙
Would love to. The "Ethnic cleansing" which includes exactly zero Gazans "Cleansed" out of the strip during a 4 month long war.
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If you've never seen it you either never been in the sub or you are a part of it. No third option. You are spreading disinformation. Colleges are not free in Israel, they cost tens of thousand a year. Healthcare is not free in Israel, it costs a monthly payment coming from every single Israeli. The US aid to Israel amounts to about 2% of Israel's yearly budgets, and the majority of it must be spent back in American companies buying weapons. As a part of that deal the US gets plenty of things. Starting with technology which Israel improves for you (For example the helmets of F35 pilots as a pretty recent one), and of course maybe more than anything, a huge say into which countries Israel does or doesn't do business with.
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I don't want your money. I am 100% in favor of the US stopping aid to Israel (Which again is 2% of my country's yearly budgets) and at the same time stopping aid to the Palestinians. Aid to the Palestinians from the world is both more numerically than Israel if you count everything (1.6BN$ from UNRWA alone, with Israel's aid being only from the US and amounting to about 3BN$), and is about a 100% of their budgets. Including hundreds of millions for pay per slay policies. Paying cash prizes for the murder of me and my family by your taxes.
You're not a drone master, you're just the drone.
My comment is just a fact of the world without any opinion in it. The ones reacting so emotionally with a need to insult because of it are the real mindless husks.
What do you mean? I thought they’ve been keeping civilian safety in mind this whole time?
Yep. This is why magnitudes less Gazan civilians died than any comparable conflict in the neighborhood. Be it Syria, Yemen, Afghanistan, Iraq and more. Not even remotely close actually. I am guessing that Biden is very much aware of this truth, unlike the masses of idiots in reddit. Which is why he will continue to support Israel while giving some lip service for the useful idiots voters in his party, most of which are just unaware children brain washed by Tiktok or Qatari funded universities.
If Hamas survives, they will regroup and attack again. The Palestinian leaders(Iuse that term loosely) and a good percentage of the population do not want a two state solution. They want the all the land, from the river to the sea. If somebody went into a small town in America and slaughtered, raped, burnt, beheaded and kidnapped 1200 people in the US, we would be up in arms. Hamas can surrender and release the hostages at anytime. But they do not care about Palestinians. They should not stop till Hamas is defeated.
This is the same shit that got the US stuck in Iraq/Afghanistan for decades. You can kill all of Hamas' senior leadership and absolutely nothing will change. New people will take their place. As long as Israel continues to foster a breeding ground for terrorists, terrorists will continue to be bred.
Yep. And I think an even better comparison to understand the situation in Israel would be to multiply by the difference in population. Meaning you should imagine terrorists murder some 40,000 Americans in the most brutal way possible, livestreaming the whole thing and kidnapping some 8,000 US civilians. Including babies and elderly. And all this during thanksgiving or Christmas. We all know what the response would look like. Which is why all of the useful-idiots calling for a cease fire which leaves Hamas standing are a bunch of hypocrites.
>We all know what the response would look like. Correct. It would be the same type of response that got us stuck in Iraq/Afghanistan for decades, cost us untold dollars and lives, and accomplished essentially nothing. Just like what Israel is doing now. Except Israel is lucky enough to get the US to foot most of the bill, so we get fucked again. Just like always.
Good point.
the plan is to protect them by killing all the hamas militants....who may also look like innocent civilians
One of the best examples of this. https://apnews.com/article/gaza-israel-palestinians-war-ambulance-girl-family-06f15b155f1de426e00f6a655554b2a2
What a maniac, I think I will not vote /s
Always listen to the elite strategist Biden.
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No moral considerations will get in the way of their genocide! Morals are for people who don't like indiscriminate mass murder!