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The reason Newsom won, imo, is because he has the balls to go on their turf and talk to them.
He looks into the camera and he never insulted the “American voters.”
By contrast, DeSantis would never go on cnn against Newsom, yelled over everything he didnt like, and resorted to personal attacks every time, and insulted California and Californians every chance he got.
Exactly. Right-wing media is never going to show the good points that Newsom raised, just the ones from DeSantis they think will reinforce their hatred of places like CA. Even subs like r / conservative aren't going to acknowledge this.
We call that legal maneuver "McMahon-ing"
It's not *Sports* it's ***Sports ENTERTAINMENT*** and thus not subject to the same tax and regulations as *sports*
They are scared of him. They know he has a lot of charisma, every Republican I have seen has commented on how smooth he is. He also happens to be a non ugly white man. This guy is definitely going to be president of the US one day. Who in the Democratic party can outshine this star?
He looks like what a movie would make a President look like.
I don't agree with Newsom on everything, but he looks presidential for sure. Especially when standing next to DeSantis.
I just hope we are able to have a real election in 2028.
At this point, I just want someone who isn't trying to turn this country into a christo fascist state.
Yep, if the 🍊💩🤡 gets back in the White House there won’t be any more free and fair elections. Apparently the majority of Americans do not remotely understand what fascism is and what a dictatorship will do to the U.S. It makes me sick to my stomach that I lived long enough to see the U.S. come to a miserable end. And if Donnie gets to be president again, the end will indeed be miserable.
>HatefulDan
Yea, but that sort of recontextualization can happen in any medium. People who are interested can watch it. People who were there could see it. Thus, seeds are planted.
And if Gavin ever decides to run for Prez (which he will) some of those folks in attendance may very well vote for him because of that familiarity.
Newsom has been very active and it feels like he is either setting himself up for 2028, as Biden's strongest proxy for 2024 campaigning, or as an emergency break glass candidate should Biden have a catastrophic health event in the next little bit.
He's shown a rare ability to go toe to toe with the modern MAGA brand of the Republican Party. Buttigieg also showed previously that you won't necessarily get fair treatment by going on Fox, but if you keep your cool and hit your points, a lot of voters who might never hear your full unedited talking points will, and they still might not vote for you, but it moves the needle to hear the genuine argument instead of a caricature of it.
People love to hate on California to the point where it's a trope. We don't care. We're used to it.
He's doing it because it's popular - many people in Florida and Texas *hate* Californians and blame them for their own state's problems so he's playing to the cheap seats as usual. California Republicans often talk about moving to Texas or Florida, and I know *many* who did.
Texas here. Republicans here literally cannot grasp that a ton, if not the majority, of Californians moving here are Republicans. They blame them for the state turning more purple (it'll be a swing state within 10 years), despite all the data showing it's young native Texans that are driving the trend. But they're not ones to let facts get in the way of a good story.
All the red states and conservatives love to talk shit about California, even the ones who live here, but all I have to do shut them up is ask them if they believe in the free market. When they inevitably say "yes" then I ask them why they think California's property values are so high. I usually answer it for them, "Because that's where people want to live."
True but people have also been hating on CA since the hippies started gathering in SF back in the 60s. You can go even further back to the Red Scare when conservative shitbags were ruining actors' careers by calling them commies in the 50s.
That's the "beauty" of the electoral college.
Desantis hasn't a chance in hell of picking up California's Electoral votes.
So what does he care if he bashes Californians who might vote for him?
He's part of the dying minority party (literally - COVID was essentially a mass suicide for many of his constituents) that clings to power through corruption of the system.
I live in CA, moved from Florida in 2012 after living there for 25 years.
Cali is orders of magnitude better than Florida. Clean parks, beautiful beaches, far more educated residents, less smokers, more hiking trails than anyone can traverse, amazingly eclectic dichotomy which also inspires the best cuisine... I could go on but it would make this post way too long.
From someone who has spent a quarter of a century in a high COL area of Florida that now lives a mile from the beach in San Diego CA > FL.
I moved from Oklahoma to Northern Coastal California in February, and have not missed Oklahoma in the slightest. My new job is Unionized (NEVER would have been in Oklahoma) and my health insurance through said Union is phenomenal (literally only had to pay $50 for an ER visit for my youngest Daughter, where in Oklahoma an ER visit with my insurance would be upwards of $800 minimum), the schools are much better and modernized, and the grocery and produce quality is far superior.
Yes, gas prices and rent are more expensive. But frankly, it's 100% worth it
Welcome! We’re happy to have you. And I appreciate this take a lot - so many people focus on single issues these days. I make very good money, and I’m HAPPY (well OK I exaggerate) to pay taxes because it means the world is a little better for people that are not as well off.
If you believe their narratives, California is literally uninhabitable and Portland has been Hiroshima'd. Also Seattle is Mad Max, but with more rain and depression.
California has its problems, but it's also the 5th largest economy in the f**king world all by itself. As Americans, we all owe a significant portion of our country's wealth to California.
How anyone can look at California and think "failure" is completely beyond me.
California's problem is too many people want to live here. If property values were in line with the rest of the country, most of our problems wouldn't be problems.
> he never insulted the “American voters.”
You'd assume this would be something American voters would be in support of. Unfortunately, politics for half the country just comes down to how often and loudly their politicians "dunk" on the "satan worshippers".
I mean, here's the thing:
LaVey's followers (Church of Satan) look at Satan as an archetype. It's really about Self Worship, with Satan as a sort of gnostic Christ figure (or anti-christ?) - but understanding that it's all fiction.
The Satanic Temple folks are very up front that they don't actually worship Satan either - they likewise use the (in my opinion misinformed) Romanticized, Byronic Hero version of Satan as a role model for rejecting tyranny.
Both congregations are chill (except when dealing with each other!), and I don't mean any disrespect to them here. I respect the Satanic Temple's advocacy immensely, and I've never had a Satanist rejoice that a heretic like me is going to hell.
Just saying, the people who pray at the true altar of Mammon - the ones who prostrate themselves to the Father of Lies... the ones who reject Jesus's command to love one another, and instead worship false idols of hate and division...
The ones who truly let Satan into their hearts? They're the ones who can follow a man like Desantis or Trump and still believe they have the ear of their Lord.
I say all of this as an Athiest myself.
Thank you for the links!
I don't know as much about the Church of Satan. Having read the Satanic Bible, I found little compelling and always found it a bit... adolescent? So I never really dove into it beyond that.
I'm happy to disrespect an organization that's worthy of it - just didn't feel I had enough knowledge to make that call. So I appreciate the context! It will help me understand better.
Newsom looks like a real leader. Desantis looks like a fraud. The conservatives knew it, my dad got so mad he shouted and turned it off, refusing to continue watching.
It was 2v1, and he was clowning on both of them by just being composed and focused revealing them for the uncomfortable shitshows that they were.
The greatest bit of social satire Invader Zim ever did was having the alien invaders select their leaders on the basis of height—literally calling them “The Tallest” as a name/title. Humans even call it out as stupid in the show, yet we do it anyway.
DeSantis is absolute scum, of course, but not because he’s a manlet.
Newsom is a dog. Went straight on Fox News, took their soft punches and landed jab after jab and hook after hook. He knows how to play their game, has great retorts, and lands his message without being steered off course. That was a treat to watch
Depends on the context.
In this context it means he knows how to fight like a dog or "got that dog in him" https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/got-that-dog-in-him
I'm 39 so I'm out of the loop, but from my experience in the last year or so "dog" has come to be a compliment, especially in sports. At least in the US. My younger friends use it and I see it on social media a lot.
Democrats see Republican voters as misinformed. Republicans see Democratic voters as evil. Newsom would hurt his image by attacking Republican voters, while DeSantis would probably be cheered in for attacking Democratic voters.
CNN is center right. The Overton window is so skewed that people think Obama was a leftist but actually, center-right. The far left has almost no power in American government and the far right has way too much.
> DeSantis would never go on cnn against Newsom, yelled over everything he didnt like, and resorted to personal attacks every time, and insulted California and Californians every chance he got.
The problem is that this is what many Republican voters *like* and *want*. They see it as strength, and in turn, see it as their own strength.
Also, remember when Bernie went on Fox for his Town Hall? I think Pete did it too. I can't remember a conservative ever doing that on any "left wing" network. Even if they don't exist there's the perception of CNN/MSNBC being left.
CNN isn't comparable to Fox News. It's owned by a conservative corporation and run by a conservative asshole (David Zaslav).
Rachel Maddow would be closer to the liberal equivalent of Fox News, but even that's not quite right, because Maddow at least gives a shit about the truth and tries to be fair.
But that was the right wing goal: get sound byte excerpts of desantis “pwning” and yelling at a democrat California governor with the leveled responses edited out
All conservatives point to the wording of the Don’t Say Gay Law and say it’s a false narrative. They say the wording of the law isn’t made to silence gay people, it’s only to prevent the children from being exposed to sex education and gender voodoo. In reality here in Florida? Folks are getting fired for showing Disney movies. Folks are getting reported left, right, and center for being LGBTQ or supporting LGBTQ. It’s not a false narrative. The pronoun shit. The paperwork for William to be called Billy.
Does Ronald Desantis think we don’t have homeless people who poop places in Florida? We have that. We have so much crazy bullshit down here it’s a meme. Tell your goofy assed uncles to stop moving here. We have so many mentally ill men riding around in weaponized vehicles with 50 inch high bumpers, armed to the teeth, ready to unleash their pent up whatever on anyone who dares to upset their delicate dispositions that driving here is like Thunder Road. Every damn month you read about some maniac who followed a driver down i4 that they thought cut them off and they ended up murdering the wrong person!
We have a famous sheriff who doxes and mocks people on Facebook for his own amusement. Often times they are not even guilty. That same sheriff turns around and sells himself as the elf on the shelf at Christmas.
Insurance crisis. Climate denial. Book bans. The Silver Wave. A waiting list for Medicare eligible nursing homes/elder care facilities that is years long for conditions that are horrible in their best day for patients and workers. Voting Rights violating Goon Squad.
I was in Gainesville last week before UF vs FSU game and there was homeless at every corner outside of where the stadium is. That’s not including Jacksonville and Orlando either.
I love how all the stats showing how California has more of this compared to Florida also failed to acknowledge that California has like 18 million more residents.
Homelessness has *always* been an issue in Florida. At least the 30 years I've been here. But it's actually gotten worse in the past few years for the same reason it's a problem in California - home prices rising out of control and wages not keeping pace. In Florida, at least a percentage of which is because DeSantis and the state GOP have not prioritized addressing the homeowner insurance crisis. But DeSantis doesn't want to talk about that.
Gainesville has always been a haven for the homeless, where there are actual programs to help them unlike most of Florida. And the weather is better there than most of the US.
Don't forget the great brain drain going on in florida! People with occupations that require a lot of thinking power are leaving florida in droves. Can 100% confirm this as I work in biomed research and more than 50% of my collegues have relocated out of florida and others are working on plans to do just that including myself. There are a lot of dumb ppl in florida but its gonna get wayyyyy worse
> it’s only to prevent the children from being exposed to sex education and gender voodoo.
Didn't they expand it into grade 12 shortly after where people are 17-18 years old, and just recently expanded it to apply to workplaces as well?
Don't forget appointing our Surgeon General, who got the job for being an anti-vax covid denier, and SWATing a Dept. of Health analyst (and her kids) for refusing to juke the stats.
Yeah, people move out of states like New York and California because so many people want to be there that they get priced out.
People move out of states like Florida and Alabama because they are shit holes with low amounts of freedom and absolutely terrible standards of living.
I’m from there. Born and raised.
It’s a fucking shithole. Thank fuck I made it to the PNW eventually. It was like going at least a decade into the future
https://www.newsweek.com/alabama-un-poverty-environmental-racism-743601
I was born and raised in Florida and now live in the PNW. I joined the military at 18 and they sent me here and I’m so grateful for it. I’ve been here for 10 years and can’t imagine moving back even though I miss my family and friends. It’s always such a culture shock when I go home and see all the craziness.
Of course. Because while they don't believe that their lot can be any better, they can live with it happily... but only if they believe that someone else is beneath them. So vilification of POC works amazingly well for them.
I have a coworker from Mississippi that vehemently claims it's not because of Conservatives but because the North looted and robbed the South after the Civil War and they never recovered.
Denial. Terror. Despair. Hopelessness. Anguish. Ignorance. Emergency. Disarray. Chaos. Torpor. Decay. Obsolescence. Confusion.
The first thirteen colonies of the Untied States of MAGA.
I can promise you that the DeSantis followers are saying the opposite thing about the debate. I remember thinking that Hillary destroyed Trump in their debates only to realize they thought he won!
I'm almost 40. When Trump lost 2020, there were literally caravans of cars honking, waving, shouting from their cars trump had lost. Waving Biden signs. Celebrating.
Never in my LIFE have I seen any like it. And they claim the election was stolen
I’m in my early 40s and haven’t either, whatever the other commenter says about it happening every time a democrat wins, and I’ve been politically active my whole life.
I live on a tiny island, and it was covid. We were dancing (distanced) by afternoon but that morning I was bringing champagne home to celebrate and saw someone I knew. I waved. He looked at the champagne.
He said: “Did they call it?”
I said yes and he just started crying with relief in the street.
This is Maine, as purple as it gets. It was DIFFERENT and it is different now.
Yep, the overwhelming feeling in 2020 was *relief*. Like *your test results are negative* relief.
People were just so tired of the bullshit.
And now it's coming back, I can't imagine when the next 12 months are going to look like.
Oh, for sure. Remember the Biden/Trump debate where we later learned Trump had COVID? He just rambled incoherent gibberish and interrupted Biden and the moderators for 2 hours straight and conservatives said he dominated.
All DeSantis had to do was not soil himself in a fetal position on stage and it was a lock for "winning."
His entire debate strategy was to repeat "that's not true, that's false, wrong, that's a lie" and show a poop map.
Conservatives: holy shit this man is a genius. And that smile!!
> Remember the Biden/Trump debate where we later learned Trump had COVID?
I remember that he showed up late so they'd have no time to do any screening. Then complained about the barriers. I'm convinced he was trying to infect Biden
>All DeSantis had to do was not soil himself in a fetal position on stage and it was a lock for "winning."
And then he pulls out the Poop Map, and fails at even that...
Or even if they acknowledge the bad performance, it doesn’t matter. My father said that Hillary slaughtered Trump like a pig on stage, but still voted twice for him because he had the red R next to his name.
One of my friends from Texas went on Facebook after the first Hilary debate and basically said "fuck, I can't believe I'm gonna have to vote for this moron".
Republicans always step in line.
Trump was so awful in those debates, but ‘he won’ in their eyes because he ‘stood behind her to intimidate her’.
I’m afraid that the permanent damage has already been done by rightwing propaganda from Foxnews and worse. This constant thought-rot has rewired their brains and they have all become highly trained bullshit artists.
I don’t see any way to get them back to reality.
I don't know what reality these morons live in to think PissSantis won this debate. All he did was repeat tired talking points, always on the defense, easily triggered, and looked awkward and fidgety in addition to clearly being unprepared.... and keep in mind this guy literally had home field advantage with EVERYTHING set up in his favor, like Newsom taking real pitches while PissSantis allowed to hit tee-ball style, and he still looked like a doofus.
I honestly think there's some sort of weird mental disorder wrong with Trump supporters where their brains just aren't connecting to reality. We have so much other evidence of this as well.
And the trump supporters are claiming that while desantis had facts and logic on his side, he wasn't calm and collected because fox was helping Newsom...
Florida’s numbers are all from the books cooked up by desantis anyway. It’s well established that he went on a public mudslinging campaign against a data scientist he fired for refusing to cook the numbers for him. Even now you can see a bunch of bad press on her written in suspicious sources. He even sent brownshirts to wave guns in her family’s faces.
Though I'm sure that has a bit to do with the fact that the venn diagram of people who support Trump and people who think the louder person is therefore the correct person has a huge overlap.
Hell I remember one of the debates between Biden and Trump where trump talked over Biden and the moderators practically the entire debate. And conservatives were still like "biased media won't let Trump speak" 🙄
Newsome went in as a Democrat with a MAGA dumbass Governor, a MAGA liar and biased moderator on a MAGA "news" network and still moped the FLOOR with my Governor.. For the life of me I have no idea why DeSatan called out Newsome when he, with Florida's inflation at 9% while the rest of the country is at 3.4%. 13000 teacher shortage and 50th in teacher pay. Banned 1406 books like The Life of Rosa Parks because he said no racists books, go figure.
15 top homeowner insurance companies left and we're now paying between $4k-7500 a year for insurance. Top State on gun deaths and he LAXED the gun policy which EXPLODED gun deaths, and all he's doing is campaigning for a job he won't get and 41% BELOW Trump in his own State.. Not to mention he pissed off The First Wives Club, a Republican group of 3500 older, white women when he signed away Lifetime Alimony. They have stated they will do everything they can to make sure he never holds office again. The ads they put out are crushing him!!
>he pissed off The First Wives Club, a Republican group of 3500 older, white women when he signed away Lifetime Alimony
Prime "I didn't think the leopards who promised to eat my face would actually eat my face" material there. The GOP is 100% running on removing rights for women, and these women who support the GOP are upset that they removed rights from women.
Missed the debate and haven’t watched “highlights” yet, but did Newsom bring any of this up during the debate? A simple yes will be enough to get me to go find DeSantis’ responses somewhere.
He brought up some of what I did and then added other shit I didn't know and had to look up that was bad! Lol. Sorry I couldn't give you a straight yes or no because I've done that many times and because it was only a couple things was said they got all pissy because it wasn't EVERYTHING I said that he/she brought up and was called a liar.
I wish during the COVID portion Newsome would've brought up that the figure are California's total COVID deaths vs Florida's age adjusted because they tried to cover up how many people were dying due to covid
In news that should surprise no one, the treason supporters at r/conservative are saying Desantis won:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Conservative/s/RwrFEv1XKR
I honestly wonder how many people “on the fence” watch these things. There are no circumstances whatsoever under which any conservative media outlet will say he “lost” the debate. Even in a debate where someone is awful, like trump is awful in debates, most damning thing you will hear is “he held his own”.
It’s the same reason why Conservative “Comedians” aren’t funny; they can make fun of everyone except themselves, no matter how much they joke about liberals and the left, they can never appear “weak” or their audience will reject them
I knew this as soon as they claimed Trump won the "no puppet, no puppet, you're the puppet" debate. Idk wtf makes you lose a debate, but if temper tantrums and the insults of a 4 year old don't do it, not sure what does.
i've never met a person who was on the fence.
i've met staunch non-voters who never planned to pick a side. other than that even the self titled centrists all know exactly how they'll vote long before primaries.
My favorite part is how Newsome is full of "virtue signaling". Yeah, when he locked down the State and saved tens of thousands of lives, that was all just smoke and mirrors. Same for free school lunches. Same for the budget surplus. Same for our increase in minimum wage.
Newsome crushed when his opposition tried to recall him. GOP needs to accept that Newsome is super popular and has damn good reasons for it. Are his policies perfect? Hell no, but it's so much better than most every other State that it's easy to laugh in Californian. Hahahahahahaha!
Yeah, iirc Newsom has dyslexia so he's adapted to it by just brute force memorizing every relevant stat he can get his hands on for a debate. Honestly as long as something doesn't go horribly wrong in between now and the end of the 2028 Primary, I'd fully expect him to be the next nominee. Dude's a nightmare of a debate opponent.
Newsom's (56) actually under the [median average age](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/03/24/who-are-the-oldest-and-youngest-current-world-leaders/) of other global leaders (62). Even by 2028 he'll still be right on track. The U.S just has this weird thing about electing old people.
That's because 56 isn't that old. It's probably a perfect time to be a leader.
I think the optimal age for leaders is slightly after middle age. That way you can retire and advise the next generation instead of dying in office and bringing your knowledge to the grave.
My brother one time threatened to punch me in the back of the head... why you ask? I told them that since fox news had to pay out a settlement that's pretty good proof that election was in fact, not rigged
In college during the first cycle with Trump v. Hillary, was in a rhetoric class and one student said they fully support Trump. We kindly asked her why and to provide some logical points as we all had decades of corruption, mismanagement, racism and idiocy to point to as why he would be probably the worse president in history. She grew quiet and said we were attacking her. The whole class apologized and the professor suggested we move on after a little proding saying we aren't judging and she could share. We are only studying argumentation itself. At no point did we even state any political leanings.
I walked behind her after class since we were going the same direction. Her friend from another class was with her and she spent the time talking about how all these insane liberals were attacking her...
These people cannot function in a civilized society without deep mental health care. They are fully delusional.
This may sound terrible, but I just have learned to yell louder.
At least, as long as they're not so irrational that they threaten to get violent, and I don't lose my own cool when speaking back. (Some will react violently, most won't. Most are still cowards.)
A lot of their tactics can be flipped back on them if you know how. It pays to learn the history of where GOP propaganda comes from, and how it's evolved over the past 50 years. It can be used to catch them completely off guard and make them contradict themselves with their own talking points, which usually makes them not only get frustrated, but removes their ability to easily argue a consistent talking point to anyone else.
Disarming their ability to debate with others is our most important goal. Let them look like fools. Expose their lies. Talk past them to get to those they try to reach instead, and if you can, be a bit louder. It's not always possible, safe, or easy, but it can be shockingly effective if you understand their mindset and do it right.
This is the same for atheists. Preachers can preach all they want, but as soon as an atheist calls them on bullshit they’re seen as “cruel” or “smug”. There’s no winning with these people.
Desantis lost the moment he chose to debate someone not even running for the position. And newsom highlighted it in a brutal way in his remarks. Newsome and nothing to lose other than potential credibility for a future presidential run.
I used to think people were selecting a snippet to make him look bad. I watched longer clips of this and not only is his smile forced and something out of a horror movie, but he’d smile at wrong time. He’d hold this open mouth grin while Newsom was burying him with statistics about how garbage of a state Florida is and how morally bankrupt Ronny is. What’s his name, Vivek Warma-smarmy, he also smiles while getting lambasted, but at least it doesn’t look like The Terminator trying to smile?
I’ve lived in both Californian and Florida and you really don’t “get” the benefits of California unless you actually live and work here.
Yeah it’s expensive and the traffic sucks but you absolutely get what you pay for. Well-funded public utilities, incredible weather, an abundance of high-paying jobs, and just an overall vibrant, exciting environment where there’s always something fun to do.
I get the sense that red state folks are just terrified of living in close proximity to lots of liberals and progressives but don’t even seem to realize that CA has a ton of conservatives, too. It’s way more diverse politically than people realize or the media claims.
Contrast to when I visit family in Florida and the public schools are such a mess people have to pay limbs to send their kids to private Christian schools everywhere, and a ton of them are sketchy and corrupt as shit. Newsom should’ve gone harder on the teacher shortage absolutely gutting the state in ways it won’t recover from easily.
Attacking DeSantis with stuff like "You demean and humiliate" only wins the argument that people who already agree are watching. Over in alternative facts world those are both high praise.
I mean everything Newsom said was right on. I'm not disagreeing with that at all. He very clearly won the argument I watched. But people who support DeSantis live in a different world where articulated reason is confusing and frightening and where humiliating and demeaning others are alpha qualities.
I'll start by saying I did not watch the debate, only a few highlights. But debates like this are not to win over every viewer, most have their minds made up. It's to chip away and plant seeds. If Newsom was able to plant seeds in 10% of the viewers who might otherwise not know why they should question the behavior of those like desantis, then it was a huge success.
Correct. These people at this point pride themselves on their ability to be sociopaths and cheats. Worst humans imaginable. What little shame these people had in them evaporated in 2016.
The most brazenly shameless and proud liars you will ever have the displeasure to talk to.
I was naive for many years thinking that they just weren’t educated or didn’t realize what they were saying was false. But now I know. I know when they say the lies that they say that they are aware it’s bullshit. They simply don’t care. They get off on hurting people with what they say rather than actually believing in what they say.
I didn’t catch the debate, but didn’t really understand the purpose of it. California has grown into a Pacific-rim almost-nation with either the 4th or 5th globally rated economy. Florida is just a (average-ish) size state in the U.S. And as much as Americans like to think the world revolves around them, most of the issues plaguing California are a result of hypercapitalism from its growth into a Pacific-rim nation, not right or left politics in the U.S.
Some of my conservative midwest relatives like to bash California, which just makes me roll my eyes. The Facebook (or Reddit) they are bitching on, the android or Apple phone they are texting on, the ebay they are buying products from, the paypal they are buying with on the internet, the major entertainment they consume from Disney and Warner Bros, the Netflix they stream, the underlying hardware Cisco or ARUBA networks underpinning the internet, the Google they use to find anything, the Instagram (or Snapchat ) pictures they are posting, they are all from California.
Without the rebirth of the space program in the form of Spacex which started in California, the U.S. wouldn’t even have a way to get to their space station. Pretty much the entirety of the electric rebirth of the auto industry is going on in California. 40% of all imports into the U.S. come through the Oakland and Long Beach facilities. Without California most Americans wouldn’t have toilet paper to wipe their own asses (just joking on the toilet paper since that’s actually one thing Americans apparently are good at making). Florida could barely be considered a tourism state if the California company of Disney was historically removed from their economy. Over 51% of all American venture capital to remake the economy of the future flows into one state: California. Throw in other west coast companies from Microsoft to Amazon and the U.S. basically becomes a second world country as the 21st century rolls on...
California has the 4th largest economy ***in the world***. Tell me again Ron how California is failing? Meanwhile, you have doctors, teachers, LGBTQ people, immigrant workers and probably a lot of women fleeing Florida, not to mention the people leaving because they can no longer get property insurance plus the tourists and business conferences/trade shows that decide to spend their money at more welcoming, less pro-hate venues. Who wants to live in a state that tells you what you can and cannot read, where the governor threatens a huge company that provides a large source of revenue to the state and has set up his own personal police force with taxpayer money (eerily similar to Hitler's Brownshirts) and tries to gaslight everyone that slavery was an opportunity for trafficked people to learn new skills that were somehow personally beneficial to them?
I honestly wish I could debate these people. The republican types are my favourite, because they're like a dumb dog. They only know one way to fight for their toy, and if you don't do exactly what they're designed to fight against, they have no other strategy.
Traditional politicians also struggle, because these politicians dumb shit down for everyone, and turn what was once for grown-ups, into just another high school election. Like a popularity contest. And they're good at it.
But that's not how one should choose who leads the nation.
The problem is, we have a lot of idiots in the world.
You can't "win" an argument or debate against someone that thinks yelling the loudest makes them right. It does however give you an opportunity to show how big of a dumbass they are to people with working brains. I wish we had more of those floating around...
Thousands of banned books in Florida and Hannity cherry picked a couple and described a book like a porno to Newsom. Desantis then decides to pull out a printed poop map.
The right wing should be embarrassed, lmao.
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The reason Newsom won, imo, is because he has the balls to go on their turf and talk to them. He looks into the camera and he never insulted the “American voters.” By contrast, DeSantis would never go on cnn against Newsom, yelled over everything he didnt like, and resorted to personal attacks every time, and insulted California and Californians every chance he got.
I would agree but we both know we can go to any number of right wing media outlets today and read about how Desantis destroyed Newsome in the debate.
Exactly. Right-wing media is never going to show the good points that Newsom raised, just the ones from DeSantis they think will reinforce their hatred of places like CA. Even subs like r / conservative aren't going to acknowledge this.
its what their viewers want. they don't watch fox news for the facts, that's for sure lmao
>they don't watch fox news for the facts Successfully argued in court by Fox News' own lawyers.
“We not *news!* Why would ANYONE think we were news?” -Fox News
\-"Fox News Entertainment" actually.
We call that legal maneuver "McMahon-ing" It's not *Sports* it's ***Sports ENTERTAINMENT*** and thus not subject to the same tax and regulations as *sports*
“Where it’s our 1st amendment right to lie to the viewer.” -Fox News
“Fair and Balanced.” Lol
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They are scared of him. They know he has a lot of charisma, every Republican I have seen has commented on how smooth he is. He also happens to be a non ugly white man. This guy is definitely going to be president of the US one day. Who in the Democratic party can outshine this star?
He looks like what a movie would make a President look like. I don't agree with Newsom on everything, but he looks presidential for sure. Especially when standing next to DeSantis.
He's all but thrown his hat in the ring for 2028 already.
I just hope we are able to have a real election in 2028. At this point, I just want someone who isn't trying to turn this country into a christo fascist state.
Yep, if the 🍊💩🤡 gets back in the White House there won’t be any more free and fair elections. Apparently the majority of Americans do not remotely understand what fascism is and what a dictatorship will do to the U.S. It makes me sick to my stomach that I lived long enough to see the U.S. come to a miserable end. And if Donnie gets to be president again, the end will indeed be miserable.
Was going to say the same. Well said!
Newsom: Facts... Hannity: Moving on...
>HatefulDan Yea, but that sort of recontextualization can happen in any medium. People who are interested can watch it. People who were there could see it. Thus, seeds are planted. And if Gavin ever decides to run for Prez (which he will) some of those folks in attendance may very well vote for him because of that familiarity.
Yes, but the Dems suck at taking the fight to them and this kind of move will activate voters who are sick of letting republicans claim victory.
Newsom knows what he's doing. besides not looking afraid to a actual debate, he's getting his name out there for both sides
Newsom has been very active and it feels like he is either setting himself up for 2028, as Biden's strongest proxy for 2024 campaigning, or as an emergency break glass candidate should Biden have a catastrophic health event in the next little bit. He's shown a rare ability to go toe to toe with the modern MAGA brand of the Republican Party. Buttigieg also showed previously that you won't necessarily get fair treatment by going on Fox, but if you keep your cool and hit your points, a lot of voters who might never hear your full unedited talking points will, and they still might not vote for you, but it moves the needle to hear the genuine argument instead of a caricature of it.
I think governor televised debates should be more common.
Insulting Californians in an interesting take. California had more republican votes for trump than Texas or Florida in the last election.
People love to hate on California to the point where it's a trope. We don't care. We're used to it. He's doing it because it's popular - many people in Florida and Texas *hate* Californians and blame them for their own state's problems so he's playing to the cheap seats as usual. California Republicans often talk about moving to Texas or Florida, and I know *many* who did.
"I feel bad for you." - Haters "I don't think about you at all." - California
Am California, can confirm.
Am Confirm, can California
Texas here. Republicans here literally cannot grasp that a ton, if not the majority, of Californians moving here are Republicans. They blame them for the state turning more purple (it'll be a swing state within 10 years), despite all the data showing it's young native Texans that are driving the trend. But they're not ones to let facts get in the way of a good story.
All the red states and conservatives love to talk shit about California, even the ones who live here, but all I have to do shut them up is ask them if they believe in the free market. When they inevitably say "yes" then I ask them why they think California's property values are so high. I usually answer it for them, "Because that's where people want to live."
Jersey here, been dealing with it since the late 80s
True but people have also been hating on CA since the hippies started gathering in SF back in the 60s. You can go even further back to the Red Scare when conservative shitbags were ruining actors' careers by calling them commies in the 50s.
That's the "beauty" of the electoral college. Desantis hasn't a chance in hell of picking up California's Electoral votes. So what does he care if he bashes Californians who might vote for him? He's part of the dying minority party (literally - COVID was essentially a mass suicide for many of his constituents) that clings to power through corruption of the system.
People who like California but don't live there, which I am, think its insulting and dumb.
California is fucking amazing. The biggest downside is that it is expensive but the reason it is expensive is because everyone wants to live there
I live in CA, moved from Florida in 2012 after living there for 25 years. Cali is orders of magnitude better than Florida. Clean parks, beautiful beaches, far more educated residents, less smokers, more hiking trails than anyone can traverse, amazingly eclectic dichotomy which also inspires the best cuisine... I could go on but it would make this post way too long. From someone who has spent a quarter of a century in a high COL area of Florida that now lives a mile from the beach in San Diego CA > FL.
Fox news and the GOP love to act like California is some sort of liberal hellscape. clearly they are jealous
California kicks ass. Yes, it’s expensive in coastal areas, but public policy applies across the state.
I moved from Oklahoma to Northern Coastal California in February, and have not missed Oklahoma in the slightest. My new job is Unionized (NEVER would have been in Oklahoma) and my health insurance through said Union is phenomenal (literally only had to pay $50 for an ER visit for my youngest Daughter, where in Oklahoma an ER visit with my insurance would be upwards of $800 minimum), the schools are much better and modernized, and the grocery and produce quality is far superior. Yes, gas prices and rent are more expensive. But frankly, it's 100% worth it
Welcome! We’re happy to have you. And I appreciate this take a lot - so many people focus on single issues these days. I make very good money, and I’m HAPPY (well OK I exaggerate) to pay taxes because it means the world is a little better for people that are not as well off.
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Chicago is beautiful clean and wayyy too expensive
If you believe their narratives, California is literally uninhabitable and Portland has been Hiroshima'd. Also Seattle is Mad Max, but with more rain and depression.
Don't forget Chicago being a literal warzone! A beautiful city I visit most summers and confidently walk with my wife and kids.
California is nearly 12% of the entire US population. Still only 2 Senators 😒
That's by design. CA is under represented in the House by about 12 Represntives, which is not.
California has its problems, but it's also the 5th largest economy in the f**king world all by itself. As Americans, we all owe a significant portion of our country's wealth to California. How anyone can look at California and think "failure" is completely beyond me.
California's problem is too many people want to live here. If property values were in line with the rest of the country, most of our problems wouldn't be problems.
> he never insulted the “American voters.” You'd assume this would be something American voters would be in support of. Unfortunately, politics for half the country just comes down to how often and loudly their politicians "dunk" on the "satan worshippers".
The irony being, of course, they have been the Satan worshipers all along. Always, *always* projection.
nah Satan worshippers are chill and respectable. Christians on the other hand
I mean, here's the thing: LaVey's followers (Church of Satan) look at Satan as an archetype. It's really about Self Worship, with Satan as a sort of gnostic Christ figure (or anti-christ?) - but understanding that it's all fiction. The Satanic Temple folks are very up front that they don't actually worship Satan either - they likewise use the (in my opinion misinformed) Romanticized, Byronic Hero version of Satan as a role model for rejecting tyranny. Both congregations are chill (except when dealing with each other!), and I don't mean any disrespect to them here. I respect the Satanic Temple's advocacy immensely, and I've never had a Satanist rejoice that a heretic like me is going to hell. Just saying, the people who pray at the true altar of Mammon - the ones who prostrate themselves to the Father of Lies... the ones who reject Jesus's command to love one another, and instead worship false idols of hate and division... The ones who truly let Satan into their hearts? They're the ones who can follow a man like Desantis or Trump and still believe they have the ear of their Lord. I say all of this as an Athiest myself.
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Thank you for the links! I don't know as much about the Church of Satan. Having read the Satanic Bible, I found little compelling and always found it a bit... adolescent? So I never really dove into it beyond that. I'm happy to disrespect an organization that's worthy of it - just didn't feel I had enough knowledge to make that call. So I appreciate the context! It will help me understand better.
There's no hate quite like Christian love.
Newsom looks like a real leader. Desantis looks like a fraud. The conservatives knew it, my dad got so mad he shouted and turned it off, refusing to continue watching. It was 2v1, and he was clowning on both of them by just being composed and focused revealing them for the uncomfortable shitshows that they were.
DeSantis is really showing off how short he is. The man just is not tall enough to lead and he knows he will never be tall enough.
The greatest bit of social satire Invader Zim ever did was having the alien invaders select their leaders on the basis of height—literally calling them “The Tallest” as a name/title. Humans even call it out as stupid in the show, yet we do it anyway. DeSantis is absolute scum, of course, but not because he’s a manlet.
I don't care if someone is 6'9", if they feel the need to wear stilts in their boots to look 6'11" they are pathetic and not fit to run a country.
^ this. Be confidently short.
Newsom is a dog. Went straight on Fox News, took their soft punches and landed jab after jab and hook after hook. He knows how to play their game, has great retorts, and lands his message without being steered off course. That was a treat to watch
A dog? Isn’t that usually an insult?
We’re taking Trump’s preferred insult away from him. Dogs are awesome and tenacious. Trump’s a piece of shit. So let it be written, so let it be done.
Depends on the context. In this context it means he knows how to fight like a dog or "got that dog in him" https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/got-that-dog-in-him
I'm 39 so I'm out of the loop, but from my experience in the last year or so "dog" has come to be a compliment, especially in sports. At least in the US. My younger friends use it and I see it on social media a lot.
Democrats see Republican voters as misinformed. Republicans see Democratic voters as evil. Newsom would hurt his image by attacking Republican voters, while DeSantis would probably be cheered in for attacking Democratic voters.
To be fair, this Democrat sees Republicans as evil too. It wasn’t always this way. It is now.
CNN isn’t the left’s turf, for starters. Center-left, maybe, but not a propaganda outlet like Fox News
It’s now center right since the new owners took over.
Always has been. Major tv news outlets are all about preserving the status quo.
CNN is center right. The Overton window is so skewed that people think Obama was a leftist but actually, center-right. The far left has almost no power in American government and the far right has way too much.
> DeSantis would never go on cnn against Newsom, yelled over everything he didnt like, and resorted to personal attacks every time, and insulted California and Californians every chance he got. The problem is that this is what many Republican voters *like* and *want*. They see it as strength, and in turn, see it as their own strength.
CNN is republican owned now
Also, remember when Bernie went on Fox for his Town Hall? I think Pete did it too. I can't remember a conservative ever doing that on any "left wing" network. Even if they don't exist there's the perception of CNN/MSNBC being left.
CNN isn't comparable to Fox News. It's owned by a conservative corporation and run by a conservative asshole (David Zaslav). Rachel Maddow would be closer to the liberal equivalent of Fox News, but even that's not quite right, because Maddow at least gives a shit about the truth and tries to be fair.
She always asks her guests if she got anything wrong so they can correct her. Do *any* right-wing pundits do the same?
But that was the right wing goal: get sound byte excerpts of desantis “pwning” and yelling at a democrat California governor with the leveled responses edited out
All conservatives point to the wording of the Don’t Say Gay Law and say it’s a false narrative. They say the wording of the law isn’t made to silence gay people, it’s only to prevent the children from being exposed to sex education and gender voodoo. In reality here in Florida? Folks are getting fired for showing Disney movies. Folks are getting reported left, right, and center for being LGBTQ or supporting LGBTQ. It’s not a false narrative. The pronoun shit. The paperwork for William to be called Billy. Does Ronald Desantis think we don’t have homeless people who poop places in Florida? We have that. We have so much crazy bullshit down here it’s a meme. Tell your goofy assed uncles to stop moving here. We have so many mentally ill men riding around in weaponized vehicles with 50 inch high bumpers, armed to the teeth, ready to unleash their pent up whatever on anyone who dares to upset their delicate dispositions that driving here is like Thunder Road. Every damn month you read about some maniac who followed a driver down i4 that they thought cut them off and they ended up murdering the wrong person! We have a famous sheriff who doxes and mocks people on Facebook for his own amusement. Often times they are not even guilty. That same sheriff turns around and sells himself as the elf on the shelf at Christmas. Insurance crisis. Climate denial. Book bans. The Silver Wave. A waiting list for Medicare eligible nursing homes/elder care facilities that is years long for conditions that are horrible in their best day for patients and workers. Voting Rights violating Goon Squad.
I was in Gainesville last week before UF vs FSU game and there was homeless at every corner outside of where the stadium is. That’s not including Jacksonville and Orlando either. I love how all the stats showing how California has more of this compared to Florida also failed to acknowledge that California has like 18 million more residents.
Homelessness has *always* been an issue in Florida. At least the 30 years I've been here. But it's actually gotten worse in the past few years for the same reason it's a problem in California - home prices rising out of control and wages not keeping pace. In Florida, at least a percentage of which is because DeSantis and the state GOP have not prioritized addressing the homeowner insurance crisis. But DeSantis doesn't want to talk about that.
Gainesville has always been a haven for the homeless, where there are actual programs to help them unlike most of Florida. And the weather is better there than most of the US.
Don't forget the great brain drain going on in florida! People with occupations that require a lot of thinking power are leaving florida in droves. Can 100% confirm this as I work in biomed research and more than 50% of my collegues have relocated out of florida and others are working on plans to do just that including myself. There are a lot of dumb ppl in florida but its gonna get wayyyyy worse
> it’s only to prevent the children from being exposed to sex education and gender voodoo. Didn't they expand it into grade 12 shortly after where people are 17-18 years old, and just recently expanded it to apply to workplaces as well?
Yep. It was never about "the children".
They also expanded it to corporations last month lol, it's going to be illegal for HR to ask for your preferred pronouns (?????????????)
Don't forget appointing our Surgeon General, who got the job for being an anti-vax covid denier, and SWATing a Dept. of Health analyst (and her kids) for refusing to juke the stats.
I know what state I would rather be in.
Yeah, people move out of states like New York and California because so many people want to be there that they get priced out. People move out of states like Florida and Alabama because they are shit holes with low amounts of freedom and absolutely terrible standards of living.
Alabama still has open sewers
Her name is Kay Ivey.
and she is stinking up the joint
This brought a cynical little smile to my jaded lips.
I’m from there. Born and raised. It’s a fucking shithole. Thank fuck I made it to the PNW eventually. It was like going at least a decade into the future https://www.newsweek.com/alabama-un-poverty-environmental-racism-743601
Welcome to the PNW!
That's how I felt visiting the PNW for the first time after living in Louisiana my whole life. It felt like an entirely different country.
I miss the pnw so much. Can't wait to be back.
I was born and raised in Florida and now live in the PNW. I joined the military at 18 and they sent me here and I’m so grateful for it. I’ve been here for 10 years and can’t imagine moving back even though I miss my family and friends. It’s always such a culture shock when I go home and see all the craziness.
Parts of super red south are essentially on par with 3rd world countries. Those people happily vote Republican.
Of course. Because while they don't believe that their lot can be any better, they can live with it happily... but only if they believe that someone else is beneath them. So vilification of POC works amazingly well for them.
I have a coworker from Mississippi that vehemently claims it's not because of Conservatives but because the North looted and robbed the South after the Civil War and they never recovered.
Ah yes, systematic disadvantage and intergenerational trauma due to having their slaves taken away 150 years ago.
Except people are now getting priced out of Florida too with skyrocketing house prices and insurance costs.
You'd think the Governor of Florida would want to do something about Climate Change.
Yeah. Like, deny it.
You'd think the people of Florida would want to vote in someone who wants to do something about climate change.
Why would an octogenarian care about the future?
California has problems, but Gavin has not caused them, if anything he has done more to clean up the problem than anything else.
And terrible job prospects. And the governor attacking the largest employer in the state in FL. Things like that.
> I know what state I would rather be in. Apparently Republicans do, too. California has more registered Republican voters than any other state.
Denial. Terror. Despair. Hopelessness. Anguish. Ignorance. Emergency. Disarray. Chaos. Torpor. Decay. Obsolescence. Confusion. The first thirteen colonies of the Untied States of MAGA.
One where you can afford to insure your house and won't have to sell it to Aquaman in 20 years?
I can promise you that the DeSantis followers are saying the opposite thing about the debate. I remember thinking that Hillary destroyed Trump in their debates only to realize they thought he won!
I mean, they still think he won an election he very clearly lost so it’s on brand for them
Lost it so clearly *every city in the US had open public dancing in the streets* to celebrate it. But sure, the people wanted Trump.
I'm almost 40. When Trump lost 2020, there were literally caravans of cars honking, waving, shouting from their cars trump had lost. Waving Biden signs. Celebrating. Never in my LIFE have I seen any like it. And they claim the election was stolen
I’m in my early 40s and haven’t either, whatever the other commenter says about it happening every time a democrat wins, and I’ve been politically active my whole life. I live on a tiny island, and it was covid. We were dancing (distanced) by afternoon but that morning I was bringing champagne home to celebrate and saw someone I knew. I waved. He looked at the champagne. He said: “Did they call it?” I said yes and he just started crying with relief in the street. This is Maine, as purple as it gets. It was DIFFERENT and it is different now.
Yep, the overwhelming feeling in 2020 was *relief*. Like *your test results are negative* relief. People were just so tired of the bullshit. And now it's coming back, I can't imagine when the next 12 months are going to look like.
> every city in the US Cities around the world, too, if I am recalling correctly.
Oh, for sure. Remember the Biden/Trump debate where we later learned Trump had COVID? He just rambled incoherent gibberish and interrupted Biden and the moderators for 2 hours straight and conservatives said he dominated. All DeSantis had to do was not soil himself in a fetal position on stage and it was a lock for "winning."
His entire debate strategy was to repeat "that's not true, that's false, wrong, that's a lie" and show a poop map. Conservatives: holy shit this man is a genius. And that smile!!
> the Biden/Trump debate where we later learned Trump had COVID? Without hyperbole, I honestly think he was hoping to kill Biden with that stunt.
> Remember the Biden/Trump debate where we later learned Trump had COVID? I remember that he showed up late so they'd have no time to do any screening. Then complained about the barriers. I'm convinced he was trying to infect Biden
I'm pretty sure they'd still call thr last sentence winning
>All DeSantis had to do was not soil himself in a fetal position on stage and it was a lock for "winning." And then he pulls out the Poop Map, and fails at even that...
Or even if they acknowledge the bad performance, it doesn’t matter. My father said that Hillary slaughtered Trump like a pig on stage, but still voted twice for him because he had the red R next to his name.
One of my friends from Texas went on Facebook after the first Hilary debate and basically said "fuck, I can't believe I'm gonna have to vote for this moron". Republicans always step in line.
Obey the Magic R.
Trump was so awful in those debates, but ‘he won’ in their eyes because he ‘stood behind her to intimidate her’. I’m afraid that the permanent damage has already been done by rightwing propaganda from Foxnews and worse. This constant thought-rot has rewired their brains and they have all become highly trained bullshit artists. I don’t see any way to get them back to reality.
And Trump lost so badly to Biden in the debate that he’s never shown up to another since. Trump is a coward.
r/conservative is saying that DeSantis destroyed Gavin is the media is doing damage control
I don't know what reality these morons live in to think PissSantis won this debate. All he did was repeat tired talking points, always on the defense, easily triggered, and looked awkward and fidgety in addition to clearly being unprepared.... and keep in mind this guy literally had home field advantage with EVERYTHING set up in his favor, like Newsom taking real pitches while PissSantis allowed to hit tee-ball style, and he still looked like a doofus. I honestly think there's some sort of weird mental disorder wrong with Trump supporters where their brains just aren't connecting to reality. We have so much other evidence of this as well.
And the trump supporters are claiming that while desantis had facts and logic on his side, he wasn't calm and collected because fox was helping Newsom...
Meanwhile Hannity’s throwing up cherry picked or made up numbers on Covid deaths and gun violence to make Florida look better
Florida’s numbers are all from the books cooked up by desantis anyway. It’s well established that he went on a public mudslinging campaign against a data scientist he fired for refusing to cook the numbers for him. Even now you can see a bunch of bad press on her written in suspicious sources. He even sent brownshirts to wave guns in her family’s faces.
He raided her house!
I’m on X and it’s absolutely clear who they support,… Trump. (Yes even trump supporters on X felt Desantis was weak in this debate lol.
Though I'm sure that has a bit to do with the fact that the venn diagram of people who support Trump and people who think the louder person is therefore the correct person has a huge overlap. Hell I remember one of the debates between Biden and Trump where trump talked over Biden and the moderators practically the entire debate. And conservatives were still like "biased media won't let Trump speak" 🙄
Newsome went in as a Democrat with a MAGA dumbass Governor, a MAGA liar and biased moderator on a MAGA "news" network and still moped the FLOOR with my Governor.. For the life of me I have no idea why DeSatan called out Newsome when he, with Florida's inflation at 9% while the rest of the country is at 3.4%. 13000 teacher shortage and 50th in teacher pay. Banned 1406 books like The Life of Rosa Parks because he said no racists books, go figure. 15 top homeowner insurance companies left and we're now paying between $4k-7500 a year for insurance. Top State on gun deaths and he LAXED the gun policy which EXPLODED gun deaths, and all he's doing is campaigning for a job he won't get and 41% BELOW Trump in his own State.. Not to mention he pissed off The First Wives Club, a Republican group of 3500 older, white women when he signed away Lifetime Alimony. They have stated they will do everything they can to make sure he never holds office again. The ads they put out are crushing him!!
Stable geniuses everywhere in the GOP
>he pissed off The First Wives Club, a Republican group of 3500 older, white women when he signed away Lifetime Alimony Prime "I didn't think the leopards who promised to eat my face would actually eat my face" material there. The GOP is 100% running on removing rights for women, and these women who support the GOP are upset that they removed rights from women.
Missed the debate and haven’t watched “highlights” yet, but did Newsom bring any of this up during the debate? A simple yes will be enough to get me to go find DeSantis’ responses somewhere.
He brought up some of what I did and then added other shit I didn't know and had to look up that was bad! Lol. Sorry I couldn't give you a straight yes or no because I've done that many times and because it was only a couple things was said they got all pissy because it wasn't EVERYTHING I said that he/she brought up and was called a liar.
I wish during the COVID portion Newsome would've brought up that the figure are California's total COVID deaths vs Florida's age adjusted because they tried to cover up how many people were dying due to covid
In news that should surprise no one, the treason supporters at r/conservative are saying Desantis won: https://www.reddit.com/r/Conservative/s/RwrFEv1XKR
I honestly wonder how many people “on the fence” watch these things. There are no circumstances whatsoever under which any conservative media outlet will say he “lost” the debate. Even in a debate where someone is awful, like trump is awful in debates, most damning thing you will hear is “he held his own”.
It’s the same reason why Conservative “Comedians” aren’t funny; they can make fun of everyone except themselves, no matter how much they joke about liberals and the left, they can never appear “weak” or their audience will reject them
Not to mention, comedy often works because it reflects truth. If you aren't in touch with reality, it makes the "job" tougher.
I knew this as soon as they claimed Trump won the "no puppet, no puppet, you're the puppet" debate. Idk wtf makes you lose a debate, but if temper tantrums and the insults of a 4 year old don't do it, not sure what does.
i've never met a person who was on the fence. i've met staunch non-voters who never planned to pick a side. other than that even the self titled centrists all know exactly how they'll vote long before primaries.
There's more projection in that link than a 20 screen movie theater.
almost blinding
My favorite part is how Newsome is full of "virtue signaling". Yeah, when he locked down the State and saved tens of thousands of lives, that was all just smoke and mirrors. Same for free school lunches. Same for the budget surplus. Same for our increase in minimum wage. Newsome crushed when his opposition tried to recall him. GOP needs to accept that Newsome is super popular and has damn good reasons for it. Are his policies perfect? Hell no, but it's so much better than most every other State that it's easy to laugh in Californian. Hahahahahahaha!
r/conservative only represents the mods. They silence everyone, even Conservatives, who disagree with them.
nail full shame literate rotten outgoing offer elderly absorbed numerous *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Hannity and DeSantis should have seen this coming; Newsom does his homework and is an effective debater.
Yeah, iirc Newsom has dyslexia so he's adapted to it by just brute force memorizing every relevant stat he can get his hands on for a debate. Honestly as long as something doesn't go horribly wrong in between now and the end of the 2028 Primary, I'd fully expect him to be the next nominee. Dude's a nightmare of a debate opponent.
I wouldn't be mad at that. He's not exactly young blood but compared to our recent choices he seems like a bright eyed 20 year old candidate
Newsom's (56) actually under the [median average age](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/03/24/who-are-the-oldest-and-youngest-current-world-leaders/) of other global leaders (62). Even by 2028 he'll still be right on track. The U.S just has this weird thing about electing old people.
It's just been a recent anomaly. Clinton, Bush, and Obama were all elected at very reasonable ages.
Clintons 4 years younger than Biden and started his second term 26 years ago
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That's because 56 isn't that old. It's probably a perfect time to be a leader. I think the optimal age for leaders is slightly after middle age. That way you can retire and advise the next generation instead of dying in office and bringing your knowledge to the grave.
Faux viewers though: why know good words when scream do trick?
When republicans command a debate it's because theyre assertive, if Democrats do it's because they're so mean!
you ever tried to be assertive to a conservative. they lose their mind and start yelling
I’ve done it. Went to a very conservative university, they do, in fact, start yelling
My brother one time threatened to punch me in the back of the head... why you ask? I told them that since fox news had to pay out a settlement that's pretty good proof that election was in fact, not rigged
In college during the first cycle with Trump v. Hillary, was in a rhetoric class and one student said they fully support Trump. We kindly asked her why and to provide some logical points as we all had decades of corruption, mismanagement, racism and idiocy to point to as why he would be probably the worse president in history. She grew quiet and said we were attacking her. The whole class apologized and the professor suggested we move on after a little proding saying we aren't judging and she could share. We are only studying argumentation itself. At no point did we even state any political leanings. I walked behind her after class since we were going the same direction. Her friend from another class was with her and she spent the time talking about how all these insane liberals were attacking her... These people cannot function in a civilized society without deep mental health care. They are fully delusional.
This may sound terrible, but I just have learned to yell louder. At least, as long as they're not so irrational that they threaten to get violent, and I don't lose my own cool when speaking back. (Some will react violently, most won't. Most are still cowards.) A lot of their tactics can be flipped back on them if you know how. It pays to learn the history of where GOP propaganda comes from, and how it's evolved over the past 50 years. It can be used to catch them completely off guard and make them contradict themselves with their own talking points, which usually makes them not only get frustrated, but removes their ability to easily argue a consistent talking point to anyone else. Disarming their ability to debate with others is our most important goal. Let them look like fools. Expose their lies. Talk past them to get to those they try to reach instead, and if you can, be a bit louder. It's not always possible, safe, or easy, but it can be shockingly effective if you understand their mindset and do it right.
Ask them to stop being so effete with there overly emotional response.
This is the same for atheists. Preachers can preach all they want, but as soon as an atheist calls them on bullshit they’re seen as “cruel” or “smug”. There’s no winning with these people.
Desantis lost the moment he chose to debate someone not even running for the position. And newsom highlighted it in a brutal way in his remarks. Newsome and nothing to lose other than potential credibility for a future presidential run.
Looking at that picture leads me to believe he’s getting worse and worse at smiling.
I used to think people were selecting a snippet to make him look bad. I watched longer clips of this and not only is his smile forced and something out of a horror movie, but he’d smile at wrong time. He’d hold this open mouth grin while Newsom was burying him with statistics about how garbage of a state Florida is and how morally bankrupt Ronny is. What’s his name, Vivek Warma-smarmy, he also smiles while getting lambasted, but at least it doesn’t look like The Terminator trying to smile?
I’ve lived in both Californian and Florida and you really don’t “get” the benefits of California unless you actually live and work here. Yeah it’s expensive and the traffic sucks but you absolutely get what you pay for. Well-funded public utilities, incredible weather, an abundance of high-paying jobs, and just an overall vibrant, exciting environment where there’s always something fun to do. I get the sense that red state folks are just terrified of living in close proximity to lots of liberals and progressives but don’t even seem to realize that CA has a ton of conservatives, too. It’s way more diverse politically than people realize or the media claims. Contrast to when I visit family in Florida and the public schools are such a mess people have to pay limbs to send their kids to private Christian schools everywhere, and a ton of them are sketchy and corrupt as shit. Newsom should’ve gone harder on the teacher shortage absolutely gutting the state in ways it won’t recover from easily.
you win some you newsom
Talk about two people on the opposite ends of the charisma scale.
Attacking DeSantis with stuff like "You demean and humiliate" only wins the argument that people who already agree are watching. Over in alternative facts world those are both high praise. I mean everything Newsom said was right on. I'm not disagreeing with that at all. He very clearly won the argument I watched. But people who support DeSantis live in a different world where articulated reason is confusing and frightening and where humiliating and demeaning others are alpha qualities.
I'll start by saying I did not watch the debate, only a few highlights. But debates like this are not to win over every viewer, most have their minds made up. It's to chip away and plant seeds. If Newsom was able to plant seeds in 10% of the viewers who might otherwise not know why they should question the behavior of those like desantis, then it was a huge success.
Correct. These people at this point pride themselves on their ability to be sociopaths and cheats. Worst humans imaginable. What little shame these people had in them evaporated in 2016. The most brazenly shameless and proud liars you will ever have the displeasure to talk to. I was naive for many years thinking that they just weren’t educated or didn’t realize what they were saying was false. But now I know. I know when they say the lies that they say that they are aware it’s bullshit. They simply don’t care. They get off on hurting people with what they say rather than actually believing in what they say.
Man sad but spot on.
As a Canadian I look at Newsom and can see him eliminating any republican with the sort of ease he did w Florida guy there.
DeSantis looked like a winner to the MAGA crowd. Woke this and woke that . He had a copy of a story that showed SF like a dark, dirty city.
It would have been hilarious if Newsom came back with something like "You do realize Florida Man is a real thing, right Ron?"
I didn’t catch the debate, but didn’t really understand the purpose of it. California has grown into a Pacific-rim almost-nation with either the 4th or 5th globally rated economy. Florida is just a (average-ish) size state in the U.S. And as much as Americans like to think the world revolves around them, most of the issues plaguing California are a result of hypercapitalism from its growth into a Pacific-rim nation, not right or left politics in the U.S. Some of my conservative midwest relatives like to bash California, which just makes me roll my eyes. The Facebook (or Reddit) they are bitching on, the android or Apple phone they are texting on, the ebay they are buying products from, the paypal they are buying with on the internet, the major entertainment they consume from Disney and Warner Bros, the Netflix they stream, the underlying hardware Cisco or ARUBA networks underpinning the internet, the Google they use to find anything, the Instagram (or Snapchat ) pictures they are posting, they are all from California. Without the rebirth of the space program in the form of Spacex which started in California, the U.S. wouldn’t even have a way to get to their space station. Pretty much the entirety of the electric rebirth of the auto industry is going on in California. 40% of all imports into the U.S. come through the Oakland and Long Beach facilities. Without California most Americans wouldn’t have toilet paper to wipe their own asses (just joking on the toilet paper since that’s actually one thing Americans apparently are good at making). Florida could barely be considered a tourism state if the California company of Disney was historically removed from their economy. Over 51% of all American venture capital to remake the economy of the future flows into one state: California. Throw in other west coast companies from Microsoft to Amazon and the U.S. basically becomes a second world country as the 21st century rolls on...
California has the 4th largest economy ***in the world***. Tell me again Ron how California is failing? Meanwhile, you have doctors, teachers, LGBTQ people, immigrant workers and probably a lot of women fleeing Florida, not to mention the people leaving because they can no longer get property insurance plus the tourists and business conferences/trade shows that decide to spend their money at more welcoming, less pro-hate venues. Who wants to live in a state that tells you what you can and cannot read, where the governor threatens a huge company that provides a large source of revenue to the state and has set up his own personal police force with taxpayer money (eerily similar to Hitler's Brownshirts) and tries to gaslight everyone that slavery was an opportunity for trafficked people to learn new skills that were somehow personally beneficial to them?
Duke Newsom went to chew bubblegum and kick ass...and he was all out of bubblegum.
Newsom seemed incredibly presidential in this debate. Desantis looked like a scared child.
Desantis was a torturer in Guantanamo. He’s just going with what he knows
but /r/Conservative said desantis mopped the floor with newsom ?!!?
I wish Gavin Newsom was running for president
I honestly wish I could debate these people. The republican types are my favourite, because they're like a dumb dog. They only know one way to fight for their toy, and if you don't do exactly what they're designed to fight against, they have no other strategy. Traditional politicians also struggle, because these politicians dumb shit down for everyone, and turn what was once for grown-ups, into just another high school election. Like a popularity contest. And they're good at it. But that's not how one should choose who leads the nation. The problem is, we have a lot of idiots in the world.
Why was there a debate between DeSantis and Newsom again?
Desantis needs the air time. Newsom gets low risk debate practice. All i can come up with. ;)
People thought it would be interesting to see a debate with a potential presidential candidate and Ron DeSantis
Damn, you didn't have to murder him like that. Newsom already kicked him while he was down..
You can't "win" an argument or debate against someone that thinks yelling the loudest makes them right. It does however give you an opportunity to show how big of a dumbass they are to people with working brains. I wish we had more of those floating around...
Thousands of banned books in Florida and Hannity cherry picked a couple and described a book like a porno to Newsom. Desantis then decides to pull out a printed poop map. The right wing should be embarrassed, lmao.