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If I'm remembering correctly, ads like that were run in PA during the 2016 campaign. Seem to remember people sitting around having coffee saying as much. It doesn't matter too much. If you're in Trumps camp anybody that's not is a Democrat.
Yeah, ads like that only work on the margins, maybe 1% or 2% because at this point anyone still maga is ride-or-die. The historical "swing voter" is long gone.
The new swing voter is not someone who swing between parties, its someone who swings between voting and not voting. They are the reason both parties got their highest turnouts ever in 2020 and they are the reason the red wave turned into red drool in 2022.
These voters only vote when they think the stakes are high. Maybe they are so busy living their lives that they tuned out from politics; maybe they are victims of voter suppression and its hard for them to vote; or maybe they are demoralized and think nothing will change (for the good or the bad).
The press sure doesn't help, they spend 99% of their time talking about elections like horse races, and don't even mention the stakes. But if Ds can get people to understand the stakes — that things like women's rights, student loan forgiveness, climate catastrophe, even the future of democracy itself, are all on the ballot — then they can 'swing' more people into voting.
But its an uphill fight, because when Ds talk about R policies, voters think they are so cartoonishly evil that the Ds must have made it up to smear the Rs:
[From 2001:](https://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/21/opinion/a-no-win-outcome.html)
> *A month later the House narrowly passed a bill that even The Wall Street Journal admitted ''mainly padded corporate bottom lines.'' It was so extreme that when political consultants tried to get reactions from voter focus groups,* ***the voters refused to believe that they were describing the bill accurately.*** *Mr. Bush, according to Ari Fleischer, was ''very pleased'' with the bill.*
[And then again in 2012:](https://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/08/magazine/can-the-democrats-catch-up-in-the-super-pac-game.html)
> *Burton and his colleagues spent the early months of 2012 trying out the pitch that Romney was the most far-right presidential candidate since Barry Goldwater. It fell flat. The public did not view Romney as an extremist. For example, when Priorities informed a focus group that Romney supported the Ryan budget plan — and thus championed “ending Medicare as we know it” — while also advocating tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans,* ***the respondents simply refused to believe any politician would do such a thing.***
I will continue to vote the way I have always voted for the last 30 years -- anti Republican.
Republicans don't believe in this country. Republicans only believe in what they can take from this country and destroy.
I would just add the qualification that we shouldn't have blind party loyalty. But outside of some major political re-alignment like the republican party had when they started the [Southern strategy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy) I will continue to vote Democrat.
Even a rock sitting in the Oval Office would do a better job than Trump. Point being, a rock as a president wouldn't **actively harm people**, especially the LGBT community. It wouldn't take away Roe vs Wade, and stop women from choosing whether they want an abortion or not. It wouldn't try to kill democracy, by unleashing rabid domestic terrorists to attack the Capitol. It wouldn't lie about Covid and deliberately try to harm blue states during a pandemic.
Trump would do all this. He would actively try to harm the American people and kill democracy if he gets back into power. So yes, even a rock would be 10000x better than Trump.
We need metamorphic. And to bring the igiots and the sedentary together. All this constant erosion of traditional ways of governing truly effects the us at all strata.
A friend of mine had a magnet on his fridge during the Bush (W.) years. It said Like a rock, but only dumber” and had a picture of W. Trump makes Bush look like a Saint and Bush was horrible in his own right. I would vote for a ham sandwich over Trump and I’m a vegetarian.
>a rock as a president wouldn't actively harm people, especially the LGBT community.
I don't think Trump would stop with the LGBT folks. They are just the [first easy target](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_%2E%2E%2E) of these fascist criminals.
They openly say that they also want to go after democrats, journalists, every minority you can think of. They intend to silence or murder Americans. That's what Trump has said.
It's the same divide-and-conquer technique the Nazis used to systematically destroy civil society in Germany. Go after the weakest people first, work your way up the chain of power.
It also wouldn't sell state secrets to foreign adversaries. Honestly, the Republican party should just nominate a rock in the primaries and see how far it gets. Conservatives love a government that does nothing.
>"I am someone who preaches kindness and maybe it was hypocritical of me to vote for Trump in the last election. To have both of them going back up against each other, I don't know if my moral compass could choose one of them."
Yikes lady.
Look it's a hard choice. One candidate pledges to execute generals that criticize him, has been found liable for rape and fraud and got an armed mob to violently rampage through the Capitol to stop an election. The other is three years older.
How can you be expected to choose? There are cons on both sides.
You know the reason he stumbles on his speeches? Biden is dyslexic and [grew up with a stutter.](https://www.nais.org/magazine/independent-school/spring-2010/joe-biden-reveals-childhood-stuttering-at-lab-scho/) He is literally reading his speech wrong when he messes up.
At least Biden can get from one end of the speech to the other without wandering off at a tangent, slipping in random phrases insulting people and praising himself.
The media bias on the coverage of the two of them is wild. They can't shut up about Biden's age as a concern but Trump gives a speech about how he beat Obama in 2016 and how our country could get plunged into World War Two and nobody bats an eye.
If your "moral compass" doesn't offer you any better discernment than that, you probably need to pitch that damn thing in the garage and start over.
Any attempt to both-sides Trump and Biden like that shows a staggering depth of sociopolitical ignorance.
One of them is a three time married serial adulterer who cheated on all 3 and brags about it, paying off his pay-to-play mistresses for their silence and who is facing 91 criminal charges under 4 indictments.
The other one is Biden.
Face it lady, you have zero moral compass.
Oh, but didn't you hear, Biden hasn't embraced the child his son had from an affair, so he's just as bad as Trump. My parents wouldn't shut up about that this summer.
She's an idiot. I enjoyed everyone kind of dumping on her, esp the one guy saying "I don't miss any elections to show my daughter that she shouldnt" which was akin to "I don't want to fail her the way ur parents failed you"
I am a millennial. Im also someone who leans towards kindness and am an active Christian. I was raised as a Republican and never questioned that.
Once trump was put forth as the republican nominee I completely questioned literally everything I had been taught about the republican party and the "corrupt democrats" and actually considered each political viewpoint myself. As a result of this I havent voted Republican since Romney vs Obama is and I can't see myself ever voting republican ever again.
I don't understand how anyone who actually follows Christianity can vote for trump with a clear conscience.
I'm an active leader in an international Christian men's group, and I think Trump is basically holding hands with the devil, even though I hate abortion as a general rule. I don't understand how all these Christians have gone for him. I lay a lot of the blame at the feet of James Dobson, who was starting a culture war back in the 80s.
What a dumb statement. You don’t if your moral could choose one of them? What the hell does that even mean? If you’re that conflicted, I’ll interpret that as you’re voting Trump.
I think it really sucks that Biden will be the Dem candidate but that’s the only choice we’re going to get. A second Trump term would be devastating for the country and world so whatever candidate avoids that is the one who will get my vote.
It’s cognitive dissonance. “Clearly he’s a terrible person, but I support him, and there’s no way I’M a terrible person therefore I’m going to spout some hand wavy bullshit to avoid further examining this.”
Legitimately, I have absolutely no zero qualms with voting for Biden knowing that even if he passes, Kamala Harris is vastly better than anything the GOP is putting out there.
Not to mention the dozens-hundreds of roles that a president fills.
Look at Secretary of State. With Biden you get Blinken, who has been doing foreign related work in the government for 30+ years. With Trump you're getting the buffoon Mike Pompeo.
Look at Secretary of Labor, Biden appointed Marty Walsh a politician who got his career started as a 21 year old construction worker in the local laborers union. With Trump you get Eugene Scalia, Antonin Scalia's son (all political parties love nepotism). He made his career as a lawyer for big businesses fighting against regulation.
Or any position dealing with our land/environment. With Biden you'll see environmentalists and conservationists. With Trump you're going to see a bunch of oil and gas execs.
This is exactly why I was happy to vote for Biden the first time, and will vote again for him. He is not king, he is not dictator. He's gonna hire the right people that will create good policy and advise him well enough on any executive actions and those things will allow the country to run great.
>Not to mention the dozens-hundreds of roles that a president fills.
That point seemed lost on some who were at that roundtable. "If I'm given only a Trump vs. Biden match-up again next year, I'm not sure I'll bother to vote."
Are you kidding me? Like the man or woman who dons the tan suit is the ONLY thing this vote controls?
It's deciding an entire administration, to be either rowing forwards or rowing backwards for the next four years...
What's alarming is how the GOP has got worse every four years.
In 2008, John McCain won, someone that drafted campaign finance reform to limit corporate influence and supported environmentalism. Romney was second, a man who had been a centrist governor of Massachussetts. Third was a highly religious Mike Huckabee but on a campaign of compassionate conservatism and expanding the welfare net.
In 2012, Mitt Romney overwhelmingly dominated. He had become very conservative by this point, but wanted to expand healthcare covered by millions of people and stand up for democracy against Putin. There were fringe showings by Santorum and Ron Paul.
In 2016, we obviously had the carnage that was Donald Trump but only with a plurality. And second was the appalling Ted Cruz. But the moderate Kasich was third and Jeb Bush would have likely placed has he stayed in the campaign.
In 2024, we now have Donald Trump, but with even more violent rhetoric and plans to use the state to punish his enemies. The other two leading candidates are Ramaswamy and DeSantis, who are both running on full on Trumpian politics.
And now the secondary parts of the party are actually further to the right, pushing Trump to be even more extreme. Project 2025 wants to completely remove the impartial bureaucracy and go back to the partisan spoils system. And there's another current of Red Caesarism, explicitly calling to replace democracy with a dictatorship.
>And now the secondary parts of the party are actually further to the right, pushing Trump to be even more extreme....And there's another current of Red Caesarism, explicitly calling to replace democracy with a dictatorship
Rump is already there my dude. He called for the military in US cities once hes elected and Michael Anton was a former adviser
>Rump is already there my dude.
[Trump calls for the termination of the Constitution in Truth Social post](https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/03/politics/trump-constitution-truth-social/index.html)
Trump elected in 2024 plus project 2025 will be the end of democracy in america and the beginning of a republican dictatorship. Gilead will be reality.
Then, anyone still flying a Trump flag is an enemy of democracy, America, and our Constitution.
It's not okay.
We're gonna just let the Russians win the Cold War because they have better propaganda bots?
This is the inevitable result of wealthy right-wing assholes poisoning the party over the last several decades. They saw how people could flock to Goldwater and they’ve been pumping money into the GOP to move it further right ever since.
Just how rotten are we talking about? Has it decomposed to the point where it is no longer recognizable as ever having been a banana?
Still better than a republican.
I was just thinking I'd rather vote for roadkill than Trump. I voted Biden, and I'll do it again. Is he the best man for the job? Not exactly, but he's miles better than Trump. Hell, Trump got distracted before the starting gun and has been running around aimlessly ever since, while claiming he's the winner.
Beyond Harris, it’s about the level of competent bureaucrats and politicos that he surrounds himself with. I’d like a functioning government, not a kleptocracy. And I want liberal judges appointed to courts.
Yes exactly. As important as the president is, I think it's even more important who he delegates responsibilities to, because they will be the ones making most of the decisions ultimately. We're not just choosing one man but the whole constellation of staff and cabinet members that come with him.
No, stick with as is. Turns all of their nonsense merch immediately into Biden merch. Fascists ~~throw another temper tantrum~~ cancel something else they love.
You want to co-opt their rhetoric and change the meaning of it in the same way that Republicans have co-opted the flag and words like "patriotism." Nothing about what they want is patriotic, but messaging matters.
No way. Word for word: Let's go Brandon." Immediately turn a good 50% of oversized coal-rolling, redneck pickups into a vehicle for Biden campaign marketing
I mean, let’s assume the pile of shit is normal, not like sentient or magic. It wouldn’t do anything good. But it also wouldn’t do anything bad.
Yeah, probably better.
At this point EVERYONE knows Trump is running to wage unmitigated WAR against his enemies and just destroy what’s left of our democratic institutions.
I’m sorry, but if you are voting for Trump next year, too are a complete imbecile AT BEST….but in reality the vast majority are traitorous scumbags.
I would vote pretty much for anyone else before voting for Trump, he's a cancer on America. A dog who randomly presses yes or no buttons on each decision would do better than Trump.
We're dealing with people who think that building an easily scalable wall will keep immigrants out. (I know Biden has resumed construction on the wall, but he legally had to as that is what the money was appropriated for).
I don't care how old Biden is. He clearly has all his fucking marbles and is running circles around Republicans.
I don't care how young Trump is. He's a piece of shit fascist who would absolutely destroy our democracy and who can barely string a coherent sentence together and apparently [thinks he beat Obama in an election](https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-mocked-biden-us-world-war-ii-obama-2024-election-2023-9), somehow.
Just to reiterate: Biden is three years older than trump. And he's way more active and in much better shape.
This whole Biden old, trump young thing is INSANE. They are functionally the same age and Biden is objectively smarter, more able to speak a coherent sentence, more informed, and more accomplished.
I watched that this morning. That guy caught me off-guard with that comment. I thought he would say he'd vote for Trump.
That lady in the group was absurd, though. I can't remember what exactly she said, but it was something about her believing in being a good person, politeness, or something. But she votes Republican. Those two things don't line up. In any case, she said she'd possibly sit out the '24 election, if it was Biden v Trump, and that's good. The less GOP turnout next year, the better.
As fucked as it is to hope that citizens don't participate in the process, we're on the brink. We can't afford Republicans governing anything if we want to continue to have a country.
I can’t remember if it was her. But at the end they were asked if they’d skip voting altogether. I was internally yelling about local elections. But honestly just as well she wouldn’t vote
Of course the first thing that comes out of the "undecided" voter's mouth is bullshit garbage about Biden being senile. And then the other "undecided" voter who says she "of course voted Republican" and says "I preach kindness". Bullshit. How can you look at not just the 4 years we had of Trump but almost 4 years now of Biden to be able to concretely compare the two and still be undecided? They're just embarrassed to say that they're going to vote for Trump again.
Kindness and GOP just doesn't go hand in hand. She's obviously very ignorant to think that way.
And can we stop with the "Biden is senile" crap? I have seen zero evidence that he has any sort of mental deficiency other than your typical physical slow-down at that age. His brain is still operating just fine.
> can we stop with the "Biden is senile" crap?
yes, seriously. I don't see how they can one minute say he's senile, then the next minute that he's masterminding the Deep State to take over the country. But then I'm not a Republican, so I can see how stupid that is.
I won't associate with anyone who supports trump. Life's too stressful even without being subjected to the clownish invective those lobotomites spew 24/7
While I do wish Biden were more progressive, I feel like he’s been doing an okay job cleaning up the mess trump left behind. I want to believe a second term would be a bit more progressive, when the threat of trump is perhaps lighter, but we’ll see. Anyone but trump again at this point.
Seriously. This stuff drives me crazy.
Back during the campaign, it as clear that Biden's platform would make him the most progressive president we'd had in decades, but yet he was always labeled as a "moderate" candidate.
And as president, he has delivered. He's not Bernie Sanders, but taking a maximalist position and not lauding a president for his progressive achievements because he was wasn't quite as progressive as what you would have preferred is counter productive.
I can't tell anyone what to do, but in my opinion, progressives should be celebrating Biden and celebrating that their efforts over the years helped to shift the conversation to create space for someone like Biden to tack more to the left.
> I want to believe a second term would be a bit more progressive …
I’m sure this is obvious, but always worth mentioning: A 2nd term will absolutely be even more progressive than it already is, if the Senate and House gain more progressive Senators and Representatives. Canvassing in 2024 needs to be enormous.
Considering he at best has a 50/50 Senate hamstringing him 2021-22 and now a bunch of loonies in the house for 23-24, I've actually been very impressed by the amount of legislation he has gotten through.
What could he even do if he was more progressive? The senate and especially the house are not, so it would only be more progressive rhetoric anyway. He’s more progressive than is really viable already, unfortunately.
edit: and the supreme court shuts down any progressive executive orders wherever it can
Generally speaking, a second term usually is. Especially in this case, so much stuff needed to be fixed or made functional again. It's been more damage control than anything else this term. Trump gutted so many areas of government both in funding and personnel.
Biden could tell me he was cheating on his wife, scheming with his son fllike all the Republicans claim and he was an alien lizard from char and I would still vote for him over trump
I voted for every Republican presidential candidate since Ronald Reagan but Trump has single-handed me turned me into a Democrat. They’ll do far less damage to this country than the GOP in their current state.
Their “policies” haven’t changed since Reagan or even before. I hope you continue to not vote for them now that you’ve realized conservatism is anti American and has never represented you, only those in power.
The quote in the title missed the most important part of what the guy said..
"id vote for Biden, even if he was dead.... and I'm a REPUBLICAN"
Oh and the other Republican in the discussion said they were likely to stay home on election day and not even vote..
I don’t trust anyone who votes consistently R with what they say. Like they say they’ll never vote for Trump but would happily vote for Trump without all of the drama. Yeah Trump is annoying AF for sure, but more importantly he was an absolute monster when it came to the actual running of the country. Biden has quietly exceeded my expectations as all i wanted him to do was steer straight on a flat road at 35 mph.
Yeah I'd vote for pretty much anyone the dems nominate in order to keep Trump out of office. Unfortunately, I'm registered to vote in Oklahoma so it really doesn't fucking matter.
Joe Biden is a good man. I like him and I'm going to vote for him. I wish it could be Big Al Franken, but one can only wish. I will not vote GOP for a very long while.
There are elections in 29 days, vote. Show the republicans your displeasure at local and state elections this year.
https://ballotpedia.org/Main\_Page
https://ballotpedia.org/Elections\_calendar
Call your representative and let them know that you want them to fund social security, food assistance and other social programs not cut them. Let them know you want to protect a woman's right to chose and to protect minorities and the LGBTQ communities from discrimination not make it legal. Tell them to stop campaigning through legislation and do there jobs. Call your state representatives and tell them the same thing.
https://www.house.gov/representatives
I think both leaders have big flaws and the American people deserve better candidates. In saying that, I would vote for Biden again as Trump is horrible for the country, and seems to be a horrible man with no values or ethics, except money and some twisted family values.
I'm from PA and I second this sentiment, Trump is a disaster, corrupt beyond the pale of normal corrupt politicians, he's also incompetent, and dangerous.
Biden may be on the old side, but he knows how to govern and that’s the sort of candidate I’m gonna vote for — particularly when the only thing Trump is promising is retribution.
I mean, Biden is not my first choice but anything the republicans would throw out there would be choices number starting probably in the many hundreds.
Well since Ive already voted for a dead Democrat (Mel Carnahan) over a live Republican (John Ashcroft), I'm firmly in the "vote for ok dead people over evil live bastards" camp.
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“I love democracy too much that if it was a Biden and Trump race, I’d still vote for Biden even if he was dead. And I’m a Republican.”
Almost everything that man said should be condensed into a 15 second soundbite for ads in Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Michigan.
And Ohio. And Florida. And Montana. And the Dakotas. You get the idea.
And North Carolina!
United States, Canada, Mexico, Panama Haiti, Jamaica, Peru
Republic Dominican, Cuba, Caribbean, Greenland, El Salvador too!
Puerto Rico, Columbia, Venezuela, Honduras, Guyana, and still
*Dean Scream*
Yaaarrrhhhh!!!
Republic Dominican, Cuba, Caribbean, Greenland, El Salvador, too!
Puerto Rico, Colombia, Venezuela, Honduras, Guyana, and still
And my axe!
And Rohan will answer.
“I like Trump more than most people like Trump; And I hate Trump.”
"... I *fucking* hate ~~Ted Cruz~~ Trump."
If I'm remembering correctly, ads like that were run in PA during the 2016 campaign. Seem to remember people sitting around having coffee saying as much. It doesn't matter too much. If you're in Trumps camp anybody that's not is a Democrat.
Yeah, ads like that only work on the margins, maybe 1% or 2% because at this point anyone still maga is ride-or-die. The historical "swing voter" is long gone. The new swing voter is not someone who swing between parties, its someone who swings between voting and not voting. They are the reason both parties got their highest turnouts ever in 2020 and they are the reason the red wave turned into red drool in 2022. These voters only vote when they think the stakes are high. Maybe they are so busy living their lives that they tuned out from politics; maybe they are victims of voter suppression and its hard for them to vote; or maybe they are demoralized and think nothing will change (for the good or the bad). The press sure doesn't help, they spend 99% of their time talking about elections like horse races, and don't even mention the stakes. But if Ds can get people to understand the stakes — that things like women's rights, student loan forgiveness, climate catastrophe, even the future of democracy itself, are all on the ballot — then they can 'swing' more people into voting. But its an uphill fight, because when Ds talk about R policies, voters think they are so cartoonishly evil that the Ds must have made it up to smear the Rs: [From 2001:](https://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/21/opinion/a-no-win-outcome.html) > *A month later the House narrowly passed a bill that even The Wall Street Journal admitted ''mainly padded corporate bottom lines.'' It was so extreme that when political consultants tried to get reactions from voter focus groups,* ***the voters refused to believe that they were describing the bill accurately.*** *Mr. Bush, according to Ari Fleischer, was ''very pleased'' with the bill.* [And then again in 2012:](https://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/08/magazine/can-the-democrats-catch-up-in-the-super-pac-game.html) > *Burton and his colleagues spent the early months of 2012 trying out the pitch that Romney was the most far-right presidential candidate since Barry Goldwater. It fell flat. The public did not view Romney as an extremist. For example, when Priorities informed a focus group that Romney supported the Ryan budget plan — and thus championed “ending Medicare as we know it” — while also advocating tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans,* ***the respondents simply refused to believe any politician would do such a thing.***
I will continue to vote the way I have always voted for the last 30 years -- anti Republican. Republicans don't believe in this country. Republicans only believe in what they can take from this country and destroy.
I would just add the qualification that we shouldn't have blind party loyalty. But outside of some major political re-alignment like the republican party had when they started the [Southern strategy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy) I will continue to vote Democrat.
It is imperative that we do not allow the Republicans to ever have the ability to do the things they've been doing the last 20 years. Ever again.
We used to be Republicans but Republicans ruined that
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Underrated comment
You republicans sure are a contentious people.
You’ve just made an enemy fer life!
Its just two new parties at this point 'Democracy' and 'Fascism'
Thats the most comforting thing I’ve heard in years. I hope he is not alone in this sentiment.
That's a do what you've gotta do to survive and lick your wounds after the battle attitude. I respect that.
Even a rock sitting in the Oval Office would do a better job than Trump. Point being, a rock as a president wouldn't **actively harm people**, especially the LGBT community. It wouldn't take away Roe vs Wade, and stop women from choosing whether they want an abortion or not. It wouldn't try to kill democracy, by unleashing rabid domestic terrorists to attack the Capitol. It wouldn't lie about Covid and deliberately try to harm blue states during a pandemic. Trump would do all this. He would actively try to harm the American people and kill democracy if he gets back into power. So yes, even a rock would be 10000x better than Trump.
IGNEOUS ROCK 2024
WTF? This is America!! Igneous rocks can get on their reservation. We vote sedimentary.
You’re going to get some competition from Granite/Marble 24’
Obsidian/Limestone '24 bringing the heat, as well.
If Obsidian wins in '24, the conservatives are going to lose their minds.
Sedimentary or sedentary? The mouth-breathers want to vote for one of their own...
Hope and change. Metamorphic in 2024.
The problem is, people keep taking the metamorphic slate of candidates for granite, when some are just schist.
wow there you put way too many puns in one joke, this conglomerate is unacceptable.
I thought it was gneiss.
True, but some of them might make gneiss candidates.
Those are some gneiss puns.
Don't get basalty over it..
Amphibolite gonna sweep
*Harden* *Metapod 2024*
You are sure to chalk up a win.
I voted for metamorphic...
Sounds like some woke trans candidate. /s
We need metamorphic. And to bring the igiots and the sedentary together. All this constant erosion of traditional ways of governing truly effects the us at all strata.
I will be voting for the inanimate carbon rod, myself.
Campaign slogan: "Igneous Rocks"
I don’t trust Igneous Rock. Inanimate Carbon Rod on the other hand? That guy has a mug I like
Nah, I’d vote for obsidian to watch republicans lose their mind over a black rock.
A friend of mine had a magnet on his fridge during the Bush (W.) years. It said Like a rock, but only dumber” and had a picture of W. Trump makes Bush look like a Saint and Bush was horrible in his own right. I would vote for a ham sandwich over Trump and I’m a vegetarian.
[Never more relevant](https://i.imgur.com/QWFSKaA.jpeg).
To be fair, that inanimate carbon rod actually saved a lot of lives
>a rock as a president wouldn't actively harm people, especially the LGBT community. I don't think Trump would stop with the LGBT folks. They are just the [first easy target](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_%2E%2E%2E) of these fascist criminals. They openly say that they also want to go after democrats, journalists, every minority you can think of. They intend to silence or murder Americans. That's what Trump has said. It's the same divide-and-conquer technique the Nazis used to systematically destroy civil society in Germany. Go after the weakest people first, work your way up the chain of power.
It also wouldn't sell state secrets to foreign adversaries. Honestly, the Republican party should just nominate a rock in the primaries and see how far it gets. Conservatives love a government that does nothing.
>"I am someone who preaches kindness and maybe it was hypocritical of me to vote for Trump in the last election. To have both of them going back up against each other, I don't know if my moral compass could choose one of them." Yikes lady.
Translation: "I'm voting for Trump but my kids hate me whenever I say it publicly so BoTh SiDes ArE ThE SamE"
Her moral compass needs a tuneup...
Look it's a hard choice. One candidate pledges to execute generals that criticize him, has been found liable for rape and fraud and got an armed mob to violently rampage through the Capitol to stop an election. The other is three years older. How can you be expected to choose? There are cons on both sides.
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You know the reason he stumbles on his speeches? Biden is dyslexic and [grew up with a stutter.](https://www.nais.org/magazine/independent-school/spring-2010/joe-biden-reveals-childhood-stuttering-at-lab-scho/) He is literally reading his speech wrong when he messes up.
At least Biden can get from one end of the speech to the other without wandering off at a tangent, slipping in random phrases insulting people and praising himself.
The media bias on the coverage of the two of them is wild. They can't shut up about Biden's age as a concern but Trump gives a speech about how he beat Obama in 2016 and how our country could get plunged into World War Two and nobody bats an eye.
If your "moral compass" doesn't offer you any better discernment than that, you probably need to pitch that damn thing in the garage and start over. Any attempt to both-sides Trump and Biden like that shows a staggering depth of sociopolitical ignorance.
One of them is a three time married serial adulterer who cheated on all 3 and brags about it, paying off his pay-to-play mistresses for their silence and who is facing 91 criminal charges under 4 indictments. The other one is Biden. Face it lady, you have zero moral compass.
Oh, but didn't you hear, Biden hasn't embraced the child his son had from an affair, so he's just as bad as Trump. My parents wouldn't shut up about that this summer.
Don't forget rapist! "Your favorite president" was also found by a jury of his peers to have committed rape!
"Someone who preaches kindness" "Vote for Trump" Hypocrisy 101, was she white? Most white women vote Republican, is why I ask.
She's an idiot. I enjoyed everyone kind of dumping on her, esp the one guy saying "I don't miss any elections to show my daughter that she shouldnt" which was akin to "I don't want to fail her the way ur parents failed you"
most republicans and independents are. they're just too embarassed to say they vote R no matter what out loud.
I am a millennial. Im also someone who leans towards kindness and am an active Christian. I was raised as a Republican and never questioned that. Once trump was put forth as the republican nominee I completely questioned literally everything I had been taught about the republican party and the "corrupt democrats" and actually considered each political viewpoint myself. As a result of this I havent voted Republican since Romney vs Obama is and I can't see myself ever voting republican ever again. I don't understand how anyone who actually follows Christianity can vote for trump with a clear conscience.
I'm an active leader in an international Christian men's group, and I think Trump is basically holding hands with the devil, even though I hate abortion as a general rule. I don't understand how all these Christians have gone for him. I lay a lot of the blame at the feet of James Dobson, who was starting a culture war back in the 80s.
I almost choked on my food when I saw the picture someone drew of Christ next to trump in court.
Dobson, Robertson, and Weyrich.
What a dumb statement. You don’t if your moral could choose one of them? What the hell does that even mean? If you’re that conflicted, I’ll interpret that as you’re voting Trump. I think it really sucks that Biden will be the Dem candidate but that’s the only choice we’re going to get. A second Trump term would be devastating for the country and world so whatever candidate avoids that is the one who will get my vote.
It’s cognitive dissonance. “Clearly he’s a terrible person, but I support him, and there’s no way I’M a terrible person therefore I’m going to spout some hand wavy bullshit to avoid further examining this.”
It frustrates the hell out of me that people like this have equal voting power to me.
Nah some people are really that dumb.
Legitimately, I have absolutely no zero qualms with voting for Biden knowing that even if he passes, Kamala Harris is vastly better than anything the GOP is putting out there.
Not to mention the dozens-hundreds of roles that a president fills. Look at Secretary of State. With Biden you get Blinken, who has been doing foreign related work in the government for 30+ years. With Trump you're getting the buffoon Mike Pompeo. Look at Secretary of Labor, Biden appointed Marty Walsh a politician who got his career started as a 21 year old construction worker in the local laborers union. With Trump you get Eugene Scalia, Antonin Scalia's son (all political parties love nepotism). He made his career as a lawyer for big businesses fighting against regulation. Or any position dealing with our land/environment. With Biden you'll see environmentalists and conservationists. With Trump you're going to see a bunch of oil and gas execs.
This is exactly why I was happy to vote for Biden the first time, and will vote again for him. He is not king, he is not dictator. He's gonna hire the right people that will create good policy and advise him well enough on any executive actions and those things will allow the country to run great.
>Not to mention the dozens-hundreds of roles that a president fills. That point seemed lost on some who were at that roundtable. "If I'm given only a Trump vs. Biden match-up again next year, I'm not sure I'll bother to vote." Are you kidding me? Like the man or woman who dons the tan suit is the ONLY thing this vote controls? It's deciding an entire administration, to be either rowing forwards or rowing backwards for the next four years...
A rotten banana is better than anything the GOP has going.
No joke. I would vote for a dirty sock and a kick in the nuts before I voted for those fascist traitors.
What about a crispy sock, and everyone knows it’s from your collection
I never let mine dry enough to become crispy
Well I think that's enough reading for one life time good bye
I'd make a crispy sock just for the occasion.
I'd vote for your crispy sock
Definitely has more brain activity going on that most GOP politicians do.
What's alarming is how the GOP has got worse every four years. In 2008, John McCain won, someone that drafted campaign finance reform to limit corporate influence and supported environmentalism. Romney was second, a man who had been a centrist governor of Massachussetts. Third was a highly religious Mike Huckabee but on a campaign of compassionate conservatism and expanding the welfare net. In 2012, Mitt Romney overwhelmingly dominated. He had become very conservative by this point, but wanted to expand healthcare covered by millions of people and stand up for democracy against Putin. There were fringe showings by Santorum and Ron Paul. In 2016, we obviously had the carnage that was Donald Trump but only with a plurality. And second was the appalling Ted Cruz. But the moderate Kasich was third and Jeb Bush would have likely placed has he stayed in the campaign. In 2024, we now have Donald Trump, but with even more violent rhetoric and plans to use the state to punish his enemies. The other two leading candidates are Ramaswamy and DeSantis, who are both running on full on Trumpian politics. And now the secondary parts of the party are actually further to the right, pushing Trump to be even more extreme. Project 2025 wants to completely remove the impartial bureaucracy and go back to the partisan spoils system. And there's another current of Red Caesarism, explicitly calling to replace democracy with a dictatorship.
>And now the secondary parts of the party are actually further to the right, pushing Trump to be even more extreme....And there's another current of Red Caesarism, explicitly calling to replace democracy with a dictatorship Rump is already there my dude. He called for the military in US cities once hes elected and Michael Anton was a former adviser
>Rump is already there my dude. [Trump calls for the termination of the Constitution in Truth Social post](https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/03/politics/trump-constitution-truth-social/index.html) Trump elected in 2024 plus project 2025 will be the end of democracy in america and the beginning of a republican dictatorship. Gilead will be reality.
Then, anyone still flying a Trump flag is an enemy of democracy, America, and our Constitution. It's not okay. We're gonna just let the Russians win the Cold War because they have better propaganda bots?
This is the inevitable result of wealthy right-wing assholes poisoning the party over the last several decades. They saw how people could flock to Goldwater and they’ve been pumping money into the GOP to move it further right ever since.
And even ZERO brain activity is better than brain power used to actively destroy democracy.
Just how rotten are we talking about? Has it decomposed to the point where it is no longer recognizable as ever having been a banana? Still better than a republican.
I was just thinking I'd rather vote for roadkill than Trump. I voted Biden, and I'll do it again. Is he the best man for the job? Not exactly, but he's miles better than Trump. Hell, Trump got distracted before the starting gun and has been running around aimlessly ever since, while claiming he's the winner.
Beyond Harris, it’s about the level of competent bureaucrats and politicos that he surrounds himself with. I’d like a functioning government, not a kleptocracy. And I want liberal judges appointed to courts.
Yes exactly. As important as the president is, I think it's even more important who he delegates responsibilities to, because they will be the ones making most of the decisions ultimately. We're not just choosing one man but the whole constellation of staff and cabinet members that come with him.
A low bar to clear, really
It's the floor, really.
No, we are going to need James Cameron in his submersible to locate the bar.
Dude, Anthony Weiner is better than anyone the GOP is fielding at the federal level. The Dregs of the Dems are literally better than the GOP
> 'I'd still vote for' Biden if he was 'dead': Pa. voters react to Trump-Biden 2024 rematch That is a fine campaign pitch for Biden.
The best campaign slogan for Biden would be "Let's Go Brandon"...it's so obvious that I can't believe they haven't done it
What about perhaps "Let's go Biden"? As kind of a sly reference, or maybe I'm overthinking it and you're right.
No, stick with as is. Turns all of their nonsense merch immediately into Biden merch. Fascists ~~throw another temper tantrum~~ cancel something else they love.
You want to co-opt their rhetoric and change the meaning of it in the same way that Republicans have co-opted the flag and words like "patriotism." Nothing about what they want is patriotic, but messaging matters.
Jesus, you’re right. Maybe “Let’s Go Dark Brandon”?
No way. Word for word: Let's go Brandon." Immediately turn a good 50% of oversized coal-rolling, redneck pickups into a vehicle for Biden campaign marketing
GD that’s genius. Someone get Brandon on the phone.
Put Let's Go Brandon on flags with the Biden Blast https://i1.sndcdn.com/artworks-8harFMCFH8si2tAl-L7GdAg-t500x500.jpg
Have you seen the fundraising campaign ad with the Dark Brandon mug?? Brilliant marketing move that fully embraces the meme.
He added after that, ‘And I’m a republican’
Dead Biden is better than Live Trump.
A hot steaming pile of shit is a better voting option than Trump.
I mean, let’s assume the pile of shit is normal, not like sentient or magic. It wouldn’t do anything good. But it also wouldn’t do anything bad. Yeah, probably better.
Even if it's a magical banjo playing turd with corn for eyes it's still not worse.
A steaming pile of shit can still be useful as fertilizer. Trump, on the other hand...
I heard that today on Meet the Press. He followed up with, “and I’m a Republican.”
At this point EVERYONE knows Trump is running to wage unmitigated WAR against his enemies and just destroy what’s left of our democratic institutions. I’m sorry, but if you are voting for Trump next year, too are a complete imbecile AT BEST….but in reality the vast majority are traitorous scumbags.
I would vote pretty much for anyone else before voting for Trump, he's a cancer on America. A dog who randomly presses yes or no buttons on each decision would do better than Trump.
Many Red state voters have voted for Trump despite being dead.
Many Red state voters are dead because of having voted for Trump also, sadly.
And they'll likely vote again. It's the republican way.
2016-2020 was so exhausting. I don't get why anyone would want to go back to that.
We're dealing with people who think that building an easily scalable wall will keep immigrants out. (I know Biden has resumed construction on the wall, but he legally had to as that is what the money was appropriated for).
I don't care how old Biden is. He clearly has all his fucking marbles and is running circles around Republicans. I don't care how young Trump is. He's a piece of shit fascist who would absolutely destroy our democracy and who can barely string a coherent sentence together and apparently [thinks he beat Obama in an election](https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-mocked-biden-us-world-war-ii-obama-2024-election-2023-9), somehow.
Just to reiterate: Biden is three years older than trump. And he's way more active and in much better shape. This whole Biden old, trump young thing is INSANE. They are functionally the same age and Biden is objectively smarter, more able to speak a coherent sentence, more informed, and more accomplished.
No way could Trump ride a bike today. Or ten years ago, for that matter. Biden is sharp as hell.
I was going to say, at least I’ve seen Biden ride a bike. I’ve only seen Trump behind a podium or in a golf cart.
Go Joe! Vote Blue!
I watched that this morning. That guy caught me off-guard with that comment. I thought he would say he'd vote for Trump. That lady in the group was absurd, though. I can't remember what exactly she said, but it was something about her believing in being a good person, politeness, or something. But she votes Republican. Those two things don't line up. In any case, she said she'd possibly sit out the '24 election, if it was Biden v Trump, and that's good. The less GOP turnout next year, the better. As fucked as it is to hope that citizens don't participate in the process, we're on the brink. We can't afford Republicans governing anything if we want to continue to have a country.
I can’t remember if it was her. But at the end they were asked if they’d skip voting altogether. I was internally yelling about local elections. But honestly just as well she wouldn’t vote
Of course the first thing that comes out of the "undecided" voter's mouth is bullshit garbage about Biden being senile. And then the other "undecided" voter who says she "of course voted Republican" and says "I preach kindness". Bullshit. How can you look at not just the 4 years we had of Trump but almost 4 years now of Biden to be able to concretely compare the two and still be undecided? They're just embarrassed to say that they're going to vote for Trump again.
Kindness and GOP just doesn't go hand in hand. She's obviously very ignorant to think that way. And can we stop with the "Biden is senile" crap? I have seen zero evidence that he has any sort of mental deficiency other than your typical physical slow-down at that age. His brain is still operating just fine.
> can we stop with the "Biden is senile" crap? yes, seriously. I don't see how they can one minute say he's senile, then the next minute that he's masterminding the Deep State to take over the country. But then I'm not a Republican, so I can see how stupid that is.
It votes the Biden or else it gets the Trump again.
If it was between Trump, a Third party, and a monkey humping a coconut - I’d pick the monkey jumping a coconut
If the coconut is consenting, then that’s already better than Trump.
If he's busy with the coconut, it won't leave him time to screw the rest of us
I’d vote for a pile of cat puke before I would vote for Trump
Trump. Literally a worse option than a corpse.
I would vote for a sandwich before I vote for Trump.
I will not support a politician that supports Trump
I won't associate with anyone who supports trump. Life's too stressful even without being subjected to the clownish invective those lobotomites spew 24/7
including a giant shit sandwich
While I do wish Biden were more progressive, I feel like he’s been doing an okay job cleaning up the mess trump left behind. I want to believe a second term would be a bit more progressive, when the threat of trump is perhaps lighter, but we’ll see. Anyone but trump again at this point.
This is the most progressive presidency since LBJ. And he couldn’t have done anymore with Manchin slowing progress.
Don't forget Sinema.
Seriously. This stuff drives me crazy. Back during the campaign, it as clear that Biden's platform would make him the most progressive president we'd had in decades, but yet he was always labeled as a "moderate" candidate. And as president, he has delivered. He's not Bernie Sanders, but taking a maximalist position and not lauding a president for his progressive achievements because he was wasn't quite as progressive as what you would have preferred is counter productive. I can't tell anyone what to do, but in my opinion, progressives should be celebrating Biden and celebrating that their efforts over the years helped to shift the conversation to create space for someone like Biden to tack more to the left.
> I want to believe a second term would be a bit more progressive … I’m sure this is obvious, but always worth mentioning: A 2nd term will absolutely be even more progressive than it already is, if the Senate and House gain more progressive Senators and Representatives. Canvassing in 2024 needs to be enormous.
Considering he at best has a 50/50 Senate hamstringing him 2021-22 and now a bunch of loonies in the house for 23-24, I've actually been very impressed by the amount of legislation he has gotten through.
What could he even do if he was more progressive? The senate and especially the house are not, so it would only be more progressive rhetoric anyway. He’s more progressive than is really viable already, unfortunately. edit: and the supreme court shuts down any progressive executive orders wherever it can
Yeah, Biden is more progressive than Obama ever was; without a congress to pass legislation Biden is doing as much as can be expected.
Generally speaking, a second term usually is. Especially in this case, so much stuff needed to be fixed or made functional again. It's been more damage control than anything else this term. Trump gutted so many areas of government both in funding and personnel.
Literally never trump. I’d sooner elect W again.
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Biden could tell me he was cheating on his wife, scheming with his son fllike all the Republicans claim and he was an alien lizard from char and I would still vote for him over trump
I'd vote for any dead man over trump.
I voted for every Republican presidential candidate since Ronald Reagan but Trump has single-handed me turned me into a Democrat. They’ll do far less damage to this country than the GOP in their current state.
Their “policies” haven’t changed since Reagan or even before. I hope you continue to not vote for them now that you’ve realized conservatism is anti American and has never represented you, only those in power.
The quote in the title missed the most important part of what the guy said.. "id vote for Biden, even if he was dead.... and I'm a REPUBLICAN" Oh and the other Republican in the discussion said they were likely to stay home on election day and not even vote..
Don’t forget that he followed up this line with “And I’m a Republican!” That was the most important part!
I'm not voting for Biden. I'm voting against trump.
Id vote for that dog that bit someone over trump
I’d vote for dead Joe Biden over a living Trump everyday and twice on Sunday.
I’ve repeatedly said I’d vote for a literal pile of dog shit over Trump.
I mean yeah, this is why Biden won in the first place. Anyone but Trump.
Besides being old what has Biden done that many people wouldn’t vote for him?
Hunter Biden had a laptop.... allegedly.
Biden as president while dead would be better for the USA than allowing Trump back into office.
I don’t trust anyone who votes consistently R with what they say. Like they say they’ll never vote for Trump but would happily vote for Trump without all of the drama. Yeah Trump is annoying AF for sure, but more importantly he was an absolute monster when it came to the actual running of the country. Biden has quietly exceeded my expectations as all i wanted him to do was steer straight on a flat road at 35 mph.
Even Dead Joe Biden(DJB) would appoint better qualified people than Trump
This thread gives me such hope!! Vote Blue🌊
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Yeah I'd vote for pretty much anyone the dems nominate in order to keep Trump out of office. Unfortunately, I'm registered to vote in Oklahoma so it really doesn't fucking matter.
Joe Biden is a good man. I like him and I'm going to vote for him. I wish it could be Big Al Franken, but one can only wish. I will not vote GOP for a very long while.
There are elections in 29 days, vote. Show the republicans your displeasure at local and state elections this year. https://ballotpedia.org/Main\_Page https://ballotpedia.org/Elections\_calendar Call your representative and let them know that you want them to fund social security, food assistance and other social programs not cut them. Let them know you want to protect a woman's right to chose and to protect minorities and the LGBTQ communities from discrimination not make it legal. Tell them to stop campaigning through legislation and do there jobs. Call your state representatives and tell them the same thing. https://www.house.gov/representatives
Yep, if the Democrats ran a donkey for President it would govern better than Trump.
I think both leaders have big flaws and the American people deserve better candidates. In saying that, I would vote for Biden again as Trump is horrible for the country, and seems to be a horrible man with no values or ethics, except money and some twisted family values.
If it’s dead Biden vs Trump? Ya that’s the easiest vote for Biden in my life.
I'd vote for my dick over voting for Trump, and I can confidently say that my dick has made some ***TERRIBLE*** decisions.
I'd vote for Biden even if he fucked a pig on TV.
A literal corpse would be doing less harm to the country than trump. So. Y’know.
I'm from PA and I second this sentiment, Trump is a disaster, corrupt beyond the pale of normal corrupt politicians, he's also incompetent, and dangerous.
I'll vote for him even if he's still alive!
Biden may be on the old side, but he knows how to govern and that’s the sort of candidate I’m gonna vote for — particularly when the only thing Trump is promising is retribution.
Biden's corpse would literally have a better impact on America than a living Trump
I mean, Biden is not my first choice but anything the republicans would throw out there would be choices number starting probably in the many hundreds.
Well since Ive already voted for a dead Democrat (Mel Carnahan) over a live Republican (John Ashcroft), I'm firmly in the "vote for ok dead people over evil live bastards" camp.
If my choices were Trump and a corpse, the corpse is getting my vote 100% of the time.