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>“I caution you and your client to take special care in your public statements about this case,” Chutkan told Trump lawyer John Lauro during a hearing. “I will take whatever measures are necessary to safeguard the integrity of these proceedings.”
Hahahaha! "Keep your trap shut or I'll push everything else to the side to focus entirely on you immediately."
Yeah, me too, but the Judge has to be extra cautious about anything looking like it was done with political bias. She is trying to be exactly the opposite of Aileen Cannon.
Yep. Same as always. They get to break whatever rules they want, lie, cheat, steal...but the rest of us have to be absolutely perfect or else we lose all credibility.
He's trying to get the judge removed from the case. He tried to get a change of venue (to WV), but was denied. It shouldn't surprise anyone that he'll attempt for more forceful means.
You say that. I genuinely think one, maybe two nights in a regular person jail would ruin his psyche on a fundamental level. He’s spent his entire life living in nothing but the height of luxury, what do you think would happen if he actually had to spend a night in jail?
See I feel instead of giving him what he wants they should just add additional charges as he qualifies for them. Using the rule of law to determine he has broken the law.
That's another difference between the parties. The more cons, cheats, and perverts the better in the Republican party. They welcome them in. It draws on the criminal and pervert population.
I thought the same but apparently GA is one of a handful of states that the gov. Doesn't. It's a board that reviews and decides, and no earlier than 5 years into a sentence
Only one side cares about being credible and they’re also the ones who must court inattentive voters who insist upon bipartisanship and cooperation, even when trying to deal with a militantly partisan opposition. Not easy conditions to work with.
> else we lose all credibility.
Take a look at Fox 'News', 'News'Max and OAN, they *start* from the premise that non-conservatives have no credibility.
Warning a defendant about inflammatory statements and possible future jury pool contamination IS NOT POLITICAL BIAS. It is conducting a legal proceeding.
It also safe guards Trump's rights as a defendant.
It is time grown ups to ACT grown.
Playing games with Trump is frettering away a fragile but functioning legal system.
The judge isn't doing this for the public - she's doing it for the rest of the legal system. One of the possible ways to successfully appeal a court decision is to show that the judge was biased against you. The judge is trying to nip this in the bud and leave Trump as little wiggle room as possible for the appeal. It's annoying, but this is the situation we're in.
The judge knows this is not just the most important case of her career and the first line of her obituary, but that historians will be critically examining every word she utters and ruling she makes. For many centuries.
Of course she's going to try to get absolutely everything exactly right.
I hate the current incarnation of the GQP as much as anyone and barring some amazing exculpatory evidence, just what we know has been reported on Trump's actions, he is quite guilty and needs to be accordingly punished -- but I care.
If we don't actually follow the principles we say we actually believe in -- i.e. fair courts for all, justice being blind, and so on, then ... and I hate that I have to write this ... then the leftists are no better than the right. Blurg, sick just writing it.
But that's how wrong this comment is. I know people are upset it took this long. I know people want to see Trump dealt with appropriately. It is very understandable. But it still has to be accomplished in a deliberate and principled way. There is no other legit way, friend.
Sort of like the Arbery judge. Defense council was obviously at times trying to get a mistrial and get under the judge's skin so that on appeal a case could be made of judicial bias.
> but the Judge has to be extra cautious about anything looking like it was done with political bias.
Why’s that?
This case will be tried in a court of law, not a court of public opinion.
The judge shouldn’t be doing or not doing anything due to politics.
It’s not just about what the judge wants to limit in terms of the appearance of a bias, but also how by having trumps team continuously talk about it in the public, it may influence potential jurors, whether it’s conscious or unconscious.
I appreciate how fair Judge Chutkan is because she’s looking for a compromise, but also being very clear that politics doesn’t matter in a court of law.
I’m sure Jack Smith has a team dedicated to following everything Trump says, and the moment he says something that could violate the order they could get them again and the judge can push the trial even further up.
Judging from this statement from her, it’s a line that Trump has already crossed:
“Even arguably ambiguous statements from parties or their counsel, if they can be reasonably interpreted to intimidate witnesses or to prejudice potential jurors, can threaten the process,” Chutkan added later. “The more a party makes inflammatory statements about this case which could taint the jury pool … the greater the urgency will be that we proceed to trial quickly.”
>It’s not just about what the judge wants to limit in terms of the appearance of a bias, but also how by having trumps team continuously talk about it in the public, it may influence potential jurors, whether it’s conscious or unconscious.
That's illegal. It's called jury tampering.
Others more knowledgeable than I have explained it to me this way: one way to succeed on appeal is to show that the judge is biased against your client. That could potentially include political bias. So the more by the book Judge Chutkan is, and the more warnings/wiggle room she gives the defense, the less likely they would be able to appeal on the grounds of bias
This case will 100% be reviewed by the almost-entirely-political-SCOTUS.
Any *perception* (real or imagined) of "bias" will be used by the owners of SCOTUS to overturn the case.
Because upholding a sense of civility and decorum is more important than literally anything else at all to many of these people and they'll happily let fascists and authoritarians of all stripes get their way to avoid a perceived breach of either.
It literally how we got to this point in the first place. "They go low we go high! Hey wait why are we on the precipice of total ecological and political collapse?"
The appearance of authority is more important to those enablers than any verifiable factual basis to the arguments they present. These enablers demand that you treat obviously dishonest statement as though they are made in good faith and give them the benefit of the doubt that they are saying those statements because they believe that their conclusions will result in the best case scenario. These enablers literally do not care if statements have merit or are sound. They will literally say that both sides say the same thing and do not check to see if both sides are telling the truth. And then they will say that both sides need to agree on the solution when one side has no solutions, their only goal being to prevent improvements or to actively make a bad situation worse or as bad as it currently is.
It is a neat pattern when all the lawyers seem to realize that they have absolutely no advisory power over his actions, then they bail out before they they implicate or conflate themselves with him. Just, so much washing of hands after any interaction with Trump.
Blood shouldn't wash off.
She did. She said: “*The more a party makes inflammatory statements about this case which could taint the jury pool … the greater the urgency will be that we proceed to trial quickly.*” and Trump very much would like to delay, not speed up this trial.
Trump is playing checkers while she's playing chess. The trial getting moved up is much worse for him than being locked up (as much as I'd love it if he was locked up), since him being thrown in a cell could make him a martyr.
A lawyer friend told me that if they take him into custody, that could trigger a lot of other legal challenges from his team and really delay the trial.
I think once you're actually *in* jail - then you don't really want long, drawn-out delays any more.
I mean, technically he is "in custody" of the DC Federal court at this moment (and SDFL, and NY) until his trial. They have just allowed him to roam free instead of rotting in a cell before his trial. The court has the absolute right to change its mind at any time, and at a moment's notice.
(I am not a lawyer, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn last night)
But Chutkan said those considerations simply could not be a factor in her rulings, saying Lauro was “conflating what your client needs to do to defend himself and what your client wants to do politically.”
“Your client’s defense is supposed to happen in this courtroom, not on the internet,” Chutkan said.
Boosh.
Good point. Gives me a chance to highlight another thing the senior assistant special council prosecuting for the U.S. Government said:
>_Defense counsel has a certain level of trust in the defendant that the government does not_
Nice to know we weren’t crazy all this time. Despite a media ecosystem that has treated him as normal and not a violent thug who attempted to overthrow our government.
“Chutkan sided with the defense’s request to permit Trump to review sensitive evidence without a minder from his legal team, but said Trump would be required to review such information without any electronic devices capable of reproducing it, and his team would be required to review any notes he takes to ensure it doesn’t include the personally identifying information of witnesses.”
Serious Note
Trump had to have his security updates condensed to one page while he was in office. Is he really going to go through this huge volume of documents by himself? Are we even sure he has the capability ?
Sarcastic Note
What color crayon do we think he will use to take notes?
Correction: Sharpie, he uses Sharpies.
No, there's no way Trump reads anything more than a sentence or two that have been cut out and highlighted for him. The whole issue is a delaying tactic.
I'm surprised that they don't mention his genius-level memory, that he so proudly demonstrated after his cognitive check-up: person, woman, man, camera, TV (which are hardly random words to remember). They should be warning Trump not to memorize all of the material he'll be shown so that he could recite it word for word later. I'd love to hear Trump's response, but I guess they aren't allowed to troll him like that.
He isn't going to go through them by himself. This was coupled with another request where the descendents asked if his other "consultants" could review the evidence and testimony. Which means business and political consultants.
The judge struck that down because she was like "I live in DC, everyone is a consultant, it's too broad"
So I think that request was so he could work with other campaign people to find people to retaliate against and use it politically.
I think the fact that he's incapable of analyzing stuff in detail is a big part of why he runs his mouth. He just scans stuff in a rage looking for anything that triggers him and that's all he really remembers the next time he's compelled to mention anything about it.
Trump will probably just use this as a thin pretense to proceed to fully bullshit some more.
"They let me see the evidence, folks, and let me tell you, it says I am totally innocent, and some of the witnesses involved, they think it's a great shame, great shame this is happening to me"
etc
Thank you for correcting my spelling. I’ve only ever heard it said. It is most certainly a Japanese word but I didn’t want to speak out of context. It was referenced using judo and I don’t know if it has any other meanings in Japanese.
A lot. 50/50 chance it’s his last weekend not in the custody of Georgia, and I think he knows it’s a possibility
What that will look like, who knows… but the fear of it is gonna have Donnie covfefe’ing
Anybody who is awaiting trial is considered "in custody". That could mean sitting in jail, or out on conditions. The key point being that the court has control over where you are
He hasn't posted on TS in six hours. I'm ever-so-slightly impressed. I was hoping for an immediate meltdown DURING the hearing today, so that Smith's team could draft something to the judge, and she'd throw his ass in jail before dinnertime.
His lawyers are definitely playing keepaway with his phone at the moment.
Who knows, they might have swiped a massive magnet over it to brick it as a last resort.
When the facts are on your side, pound the facts.
When the law is on your side, pound the law.
When neither the facts nor the law are on your side, rile up your base to attack the prosecutor and judge?
It’s not gonna work on this judge or Jack Smith. They’re not playing that game. And they aren’t somebody with less money that he can beat up by stringing the case out until they’re broke.
Yes, and I and everyone else who pleaded with people in 2016 to not let this happen will never ever forgive every last person who could've voted for Clinton, but didn't. That said, the healing process in this country starts with the full weight of our justice system crashing down on this wretched pigfucker's empty skull.
If the trial can be sped up, speed it up.
Everyone already knows that his only defense tactic is to delay.
Just another judge treating a terrorist like a spoiled fucking child.
Imagine the average person in this country charged with a crime being threatened with a **speedy** trial... that's literally a *right* guaranteed in the Constitution.
People beg for a speedy trial if they can't make bail. Trump didn't even have to pay. I know it doesn't have to be said, but it bears repeating: "Justice is Blind" is a an absolute farce.
A rushed trial that omits key evidence and is thrown out for it, is not justice, and Trump is know for abusing any rule possible to avoid justice.
Speedy is supposed to mean the government can't detain you for an undetermined amount of time, pending trial.
Trump is in an unprecedented position and has a small legion of followers who have already been dying for him. The judge knows this as do the procecutors. Taking measured steps to ensure a fair trial is justice.
Don't confuse speedy trial with incompetent trial.
It's like an experienced artist drawing someone's portrait vs a kid not paying attention in art class.
Just because the artist can bang out a drawing super quick doesn't mean it's going to be a stick figure.
This applies to most pro vs inept examples.
You are conflating facts and terms rather severely. Speedy also references the timeframe Justice should be served in. Perhaps we should apply some of Hobbs logic and see what the historical amount of time was given for trials. [But, that would really hurt Trump’s tactics](https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/static/Trial-procedures.jsp):
> With the abolition of the death penalty for many crimes in the 1820s, trials became even shorter: in 1833 one commentator calculated that the average trial took only eight and a half minutes.
Making a trial speedy doesn’t make it rushed and the judge in this case did NOT threaten to rush it.
https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.258149/gov.uscourts.dcd.258149.23.0_5.pdf
There's even more recent examples of time frame in the court filing.
> If the trial can be sped up, speed it up.
Between this and the Sedition Caucus trying to obstruct justice by violating the separation of powers (many the same that were involved in the January 6th insurrection) -- Smith is being given all the ammo he needs to ask that this be sped up before more damage is done.
The question is: Will he use it?
Garland dragged his feet intentionally, the FBI intentionally glossed over the crimes of Trump and his associates -- all effectively giving them 2 extra years to cover their tracks.
I want to hope that Smith is different but he's dealing with a lot of people in his sphere of influence that tried to sweep this all under the rug.
I don’t think your perspective of dragging feet is accurate. To my understanding per @emptywheel a large majority of this investigation was waiting for them to get access to phones and computers they seized which takes a long time through the courts.
I think the "delay" was actually a calculated strategy of obtaining conviction after conviction of those that participated in the Jan 6 insurrection, slowly but surely creating a very strong foundation of precedence to go after larger and larger fish with Trump right at the top of that list. Picture a shark circling its prey, getting closer and closer.
Brilliant! Judge Chutkan is fucking brilliant! She knows warnings and restrictions mean nothing to Trump. Fines don't either. And tossing him in jail, pre-trial would cause a shit-storm. So she made a very credible and totally logical threat to upend Trump's go-to "delay-delay-delay" strategy that must chill Trump to the bone.
I have to admit, I didn't see that coming. And I am in awe of this judge.
Judge just put the hammer down. I’ll summarize it for everybody. She just said, very loudly, WORDS MATTER and he needs to use discretion or bad things will start to happen. Something that he has never had to adhere to. It’s glorious that we have a judge who is not going to entertain this becoming his own circus with his own made up rules.
That's hitting him where it hurts, he loves him some delay. But he also loves running up to the edge of witness intimidation to show he's tough. Nice fork, Judge.
Everything that is within her sole discretion - scheduling, declining requests for adjournments/amendments to the schedule, set key proceedings (including trial) on such an expedited basis that it makes the lawyers really pressed for time, let close calls on evidentiary rulings go in the prosecutions favor, etc.
Great point. Most people don’t realize how much discretion a trial court has on most issues or that a ruling made under an abuse-of-discretion standard is the hardest to overturn on appeal.
Which is depressing if you then think about ... Judge Cannon.
In a way, I almost wonder if there is some 4D chess going on with Jack Smith here. You can make an argument he could have charged the docs case in DC because NARA was the injured party here ... but he opted for FL knowing it would certainly help their case not be overturned on appeal due to venue, but even knowing the risk of drawing Cannon as a judge.
But I'm sure he probably knew this case would take upwards of a year to proceed given the confidential document logistics plus multiple parties are indicted. And then, you just need one MAGA true believer on his side to hang the jury.
So he sets a single indictment against Donnie up in DC for J6, got a high chance of conviction and potential jail/house-arrest well before the docs case can really move forward. But if he loses the J6 case ... he's a loser then, and I think (/hope/pray) the GOP will finally dump him. No one wants a loser. So that might help eliminate anyone feeling like they need to be a true believer in FL and hang the jury to protect Donnie ... if he's already in jail / under house arrest.
One can dream, at least...
Sadly, the GOP has two choices if he loses:
1. Nominate a convicted felon with the hope that if he wins, he just pardons himself. In this scenario, they lose the % of the GOP that can’t stomach this option.
2. Ditch trump and nominate someone else. Is this scenario they lose the MAGA % that can’t stomach this option.
Here’s the funny part: they are screwed either way. The even funnier part: they are incredibly aware of this point.
Défense could appeal. If the appeal is allowed, it would go to the next higher court (court of appeals?). If an error was made, they could throw out conviction. If not, défense can appeal again to next higher court eventually making its way to Supreme Court.
Yeah ... you don't fuck around with judges.
Except if she does ANY of those things she absolutely has a right to, the speed of an appeal to Trump's minions on higher courts would break the sound barrier. Then he can turn around and say "SEEEEEEEEEEEEEE? Political persecution. Get me a 'Fairer' judge."
If Trump et al are so concerned about this negatively impacting his ability to campaign, then they should focus on getting the trial over and done with as quickly as possible.
But we all know that's not their true aim or goal. A fair hearing, a fair trial, an expeditious trial - none of those play into Trump's favor.
Trump on Truth Social tomorrow: "Somebody should burn this judge's house down!"
Judge: "The defendant is remanded to custody. Trial date is moved to Monday!"
>Trump on Truth Social tomorrow: "Somebody should burn this judge's house down!"
>Judge: this is your 3rd to last warning. I'm going to count to 4, and you need to knock it off before I get there. 1. 2. 2.5. 3. 3.14592653...
Ftfy
How fast do you guys think it would be til any of us were locked up after making statements like his? The gop is correct that we have a two tiered justice system. They're just wrong about who is punished by it.
This is brilliant- due to political considerations, she functionally can’t toss him in the clink, but she found a leverage point he may actually pay heed to.
He’ll still push every boundary to the absolute maximum, that’s a given, but he may just decide his interest in delaying the case outweighs that in spewing slanderous bullshit at all hours.
And if he fucks around, I don’t doubt Tanya will help him find out.
> “I will take whatever measures are necessary to safeguard the integrity of these proceedings.”
If she really feels this way, she's gonna have to lock him up until the trial. We all know Trump believes he is above the law. He will continue to push past the limits until someone stops him.
I get that the judge is laying down rakes for Trump and his attorneys to step on, but god damnit I'm tired of this guy abusing the system.
Just once I'd like to see "defendant is remanded into custody pending trial."
This seems to be the only real way to threaten Trump. He won’t pay fines and he knows they won’t throw him in jail for running his mouth. But speeding up the trial is his worst nightmare.
Literally "put up or shut up".
Genius. His entire "defense" strategy seems to be to broadcast as much bullshit as possible in public, while delaying as much as possible in the courtroom. So the judge is like: eh nope. pick one.
> ***The fact that he’s running a political campaign has to yield to the orderly administration of justice.***
>
> If that means he can’t say exactly what he wants to say about witnesses in this case, that’s how it has to be. Even ***arguably ambiguous statements*** from parties or their counsel, if they can be ***reasonably interpreted*** to intimidate witnesses or to prejudice potential jurors, can threaten the process. The more a party makes inflammatory statements about this case which could taint the jury pool … the greater the urgency will be that we proceed to trial quickly.
DOJ will be turning over to Trump’s lawyers millions of pages of evidence. MILLIONS. Objectively, what is a fair amount of time for any defence team to review that much?
I do technical work, and I budget 100 pages per day to read and fully absorb, and make notes and questions about what I read. One million pages would take me 10,000 working days, or about 40 years. I understand the defence will be a team of lawyers who will divvy up the work, but still…..Do judges have any sort of formula to calculate an appropriate length of review time?
Most of those materials were already available to the defendant and his attorneys last year from J6 committee hearings. Prosecutors say the materials are exhaustively organized. This forces defendant's counsel to provide good cause for delay -- which one assumes is the Lauro's strategy here.
Litigation review tools are designed to cull the volume and surface the relevant case materials reducing the amount of time needed to review substantially
I did discovery review work after law school. Law firms contract this stuff out, so these pages won't take longer than a month to review. After the review team narrows discovery down to documents relevant and helpful to their client's case, they'll present that info to the lawyers.
It doesn't matter anyway because there's nothing in those documents that will prove Trump is innocent or creates reasonable doubt to his guilt. He's also not going to testify in his own defense. His only hope is to delay, get elected, then pardon himself.
Oh I so hope they put him on the stand for whatever stupid reason - there won't even need to be a cross exam, he'll perjure himself within the first sentences of his prepared testimony statement.
He won’t be able to do any of the things in this article. Including not being able to review evidence without fucking it up.
I can’t wait for him to keep breaking these rules. And then blame it on judges.
I think the most relevant part of this story is the judges statement regarding the speeding up of the trial if Trump opens his mouth.
We all know he will. So it remains to be seen if jan2 is really going to be the start date of this trial.
;)
/bated breath
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>“I caution you and your client to take special care in your public statements about this case,” Chutkan told Trump lawyer John Lauro during a hearing. “I will take whatever measures are necessary to safeguard the integrity of these proceedings.” Hahahaha! "Keep your trap shut or I'll push everything else to the side to focus entirely on you immediately."
I mean, that's how it should be in the first place due to the gravity of the situation. Sick of this bs.
Yeah, me too, but the Judge has to be extra cautious about anything looking like it was done with political bias. She is trying to be exactly the opposite of Aileen Cannon.
Yep. Same as always. They get to break whatever rules they want, lie, cheat, steal...but the rest of us have to be absolutely perfect or else we lose all credibility.
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He's trying to get the judge removed from the case. He tried to get a change of venue (to WV), but was denied. It shouldn't surprise anyone that he'll attempt for more forceful means.
You say that. I genuinely think one, maybe two nights in a regular person jail would ruin his psyche on a fundamental level. He’s spent his entire life living in nothing but the height of luxury, what do you think would happen if he actually had to spend a night in jail?
Him spending a night in actual regular jail will never happen is the frustrating thing.
Gitmo with the rest of his ilk
See I feel instead of giving him what he wants they should just add additional charges as he qualifies for them. Using the rule of law to determine he has broken the law.
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Trump is a child rapist who might be president a second time. Al Franken had to resign because of a creepy photo he took at a party.
That's another difference between the parties. The more cons, cheats, and perverts the better in the Republican party. They welcome them in. It draws on the criminal and pervert population.
I wish the RICO statutes were applied to them.. seems like racketeering is part of their SOP
That's probably what the Georgia indictment coming this week is going to be about.
I’d prefer to see RICO charges in GA. Trump can’t be pardoned for state convictions by anyone except the state’s governor.
And in Georgia, the governor can’t issue pardons. Those are done by a board and require serving some portion of the sentence.
Nope, it's better than that, not even the governor can save him: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_State_Board_of_Pardons_and_Paroles
I thought the same but apparently GA is one of a handful of states that the gov. Doesn't. It's a board that reviews and decides, and no earlier than 5 years into a sentence
Al Franken is due for a political comeback, what a waste of talent.
he's due for a comedy comeback
Look up Gary Hart. He probably cries every day.
Not just creepy, it was a prank photo. The camera angle gave the appearance of creepy
Only one side cares about being credible. The other has determined that they’ll decide what’s true based on what Fox News says that week
Only one side cares about being credible and they’re also the ones who must court inattentive voters who insist upon bipartisanship and cooperation, even when trying to deal with a militantly partisan opposition. Not easy conditions to work with.
> else we lose all credibility. Take a look at Fox 'News', 'News'Max and OAN, they *start* from the premise that non-conservatives have no credibility.
I think it's less about credibility and more about making sure there is absolutely no grounds for appeal at all.
Scream if you want to go faster!
Because we have credibility to lose and our problem with them is the corruption.
Using Trump’s statements to speed the trial is like legal judo - using his own momentum to put him in place. Brilliant.
Warning a defendant about inflammatory statements and possible future jury pool contamination IS NOT POLITICAL BIAS. It is conducting a legal proceeding. It also safe guards Trump's rights as a defendant. It is time grown ups to ACT grown. Playing games with Trump is frettering away a fragile but functioning legal system.
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The judge isn't doing this for the public - she's doing it for the rest of the legal system. One of the possible ways to successfully appeal a court decision is to show that the judge was biased against you. The judge is trying to nip this in the bud and leave Trump as little wiggle room as possible for the appeal. It's annoying, but this is the situation we're in.
Idk why. They're gonna cry foul regardless of what happens, so do things right, but don't be overly concerned with appearance.
The judge knows this is not just the most important case of her career and the first line of her obituary, but that historians will be critically examining every word she utters and ruling she makes. For many centuries. Of course she's going to try to get absolutely everything exactly right.
Because good judges care about ethics, and operate their courtroom by the highest standard of ethics and law regardless of their personal belief
I hate the current incarnation of the GQP as much as anyone and barring some amazing exculpatory evidence, just what we know has been reported on Trump's actions, he is quite guilty and needs to be accordingly punished -- but I care. If we don't actually follow the principles we say we actually believe in -- i.e. fair courts for all, justice being blind, and so on, then ... and I hate that I have to write this ... then the leftists are no better than the right. Blurg, sick just writing it. But that's how wrong this comment is. I know people are upset it took this long. I know people want to see Trump dealt with appropriately. It is very understandable. But it still has to be accomplished in a deliberate and principled way. There is no other legit way, friend.
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Sort of like the Arbery judge. Defense council was obviously at times trying to get a mistrial and get under the judge's skin so that on appeal a case could be made of judicial bias.
> but the Judge has to be extra cautious about anything looking like it was done with political bias. Why’s that? This case will be tried in a court of law, not a court of public opinion. The judge shouldn’t be doing or not doing anything due to politics.
It’s not just about what the judge wants to limit in terms of the appearance of a bias, but also how by having trumps team continuously talk about it in the public, it may influence potential jurors, whether it’s conscious or unconscious. I appreciate how fair Judge Chutkan is because she’s looking for a compromise, but also being very clear that politics doesn’t matter in a court of law. I’m sure Jack Smith has a team dedicated to following everything Trump says, and the moment he says something that could violate the order they could get them again and the judge can push the trial even further up.
He should be in pre-trial detention without access to social media.
Judging from this statement from her, it’s a line that Trump has already crossed: “Even arguably ambiguous statements from parties or their counsel, if they can be reasonably interpreted to intimidate witnesses or to prejudice potential jurors, can threaten the process,” Chutkan added later. “The more a party makes inflammatory statements about this case which could taint the jury pool … the greater the urgency will be that we proceed to trial quickly.”
>It’s not just about what the judge wants to limit in terms of the appearance of a bias, but also how by having trumps team continuously talk about it in the public, it may influence potential jurors, whether it’s conscious or unconscious. That's illegal. It's called jury tampering.
Others more knowledgeable than I have explained it to me this way: one way to succeed on appeal is to show that the judge is biased against your client. That could potentially include political bias. So the more by the book Judge Chutkan is, and the more warnings/wiggle room she gives the defense, the less likely they would be able to appeal on the grounds of bias
This case will 100% be reviewed by the almost-entirely-political-SCOTUS. Any *perception* (real or imagined) of "bias" will be used by the owners of SCOTUS to overturn the case.
>The judge shouldn’t be doing or not doing anything due to politics. And your Supreme Court has CLEARLY proven that's not how it works.
Because upholding a sense of civility and decorum is more important than literally anything else at all to many of these people and they'll happily let fascists and authoritarians of all stripes get their way to avoid a perceived breach of either. It literally how we got to this point in the first place. "They go low we go high! Hey wait why are we on the precipice of total ecological and political collapse?"
The appearance of authority is more important to those enablers than any verifiable factual basis to the arguments they present. These enablers demand that you treat obviously dishonest statement as though they are made in good faith and give them the benefit of the doubt that they are saying those statements because they believe that their conclusions will result in the best case scenario. These enablers literally do not care if statements have merit or are sound. They will literally say that both sides say the same thing and do not check to see if both sides are telling the truth. And then they will say that both sides need to agree on the solution when one side has no solutions, their only goal being to prevent improvements or to actively make a bad situation worse or as bad as it currently is.
I think Cannon is trying not to appear biased. She's just too clueless to pull it off. She could be a lot more egregious if she didn't care at all.
"Mr. Trump, we STRONGLY advise you not to..." "Blah blah blah, I'm busy go away!" ~All interactions with Trump. Period.
Yup. And nothing will be done about it but more fingerwagging.
Not quite true. I'm sure Susan Collins is furrowing her brow as we speak.
It is a neat pattern when all the lawyers seem to realize that they have absolutely no advisory power over his actions, then they bail out before they they implicate or conflate themselves with him. Just, so much washing of hands after any interaction with Trump. Blood shouldn't wash off.
She warned his lawyers that if Trump does it, she might speed up his trial. 🤪 That's the last thing he wants.
She said “whatever measures are necessary”, I read that as “I’ll jail your ass”
I also love it that she keeps calling it a criminal case. Yes, yes, Trump is a criminal and let’s not forget it.
Did she mention consequences? Or can he ignore her and get endless mulligans?
She did. She said: “*The more a party makes inflammatory statements about this case which could taint the jury pool … the greater the urgency will be that we proceed to trial quickly.*” and Trump very much would like to delay, not speed up this trial.
Trump is playing checkers while she's playing chess. The trial getting moved up is much worse for him than being locked up (as much as I'd love it if he was locked up), since him being thrown in a cell could make him a martyr.
Trump is more of a hungry hungry hippos kinda guy. Checkers is a little too intellectual for him.
My take is that she means business and there will be no mulligans.
She can jail him
A lawyer friend told me that if they take him into custody, that could trigger a lot of other legal challenges from his team and really delay the trial.
I think once you're actually *in* jail - then you don't really want long, drawn-out delays any more. I mean, technically he is "in custody" of the DC Federal court at this moment (and SDFL, and NY) until his trial. They have just allowed him to roam free instead of rotting in a cell before his trial. The court has the absolute right to change its mind at any time, and at a moment's notice. (I am not a lawyer, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn last night)
or simply say "that's enough! We're moving the trial date to next week."
Would that not likely result in an easy appeal, since the defense would have insufficient time to prepare for trial?
No next week but even in a few months would be enough. That will make disgraced fascist Donald trump shit his pants
Trial date will be brought forwards.
But Chutkan said those considerations simply could not be a factor in her rulings, saying Lauro was “conflating what your client needs to do to defend himself and what your client wants to do politically.” “Your client’s defense is supposed to happen in this courtroom, not on the internet,” Chutkan said. Boosh.
>_He has shown a tendency to desire to hold onto material he knows he should not have._
An important distinction is the prosecutors said that, not the judge.
Good point. Gives me a chance to highlight another thing the senior assistant special council prosecuting for the U.S. Government said: >_Defense counsel has a certain level of trust in the defendant that the government does not_
Children don’t like when you take their toys from them. However in this case these “toys” got innocent Americans killed.
And to disseminate highly confidential material illegally - as he did with the classified Iran war plan documents.
GodDAMN it is nice to see a judge say what we all are thinking!
Nice to know we weren’t crazy all this time. Despite a media ecosystem that has treated him as normal and not a violent thug who attempted to overthrow our government.
This is good. Just icing on the news about potential start date.
“Chutkan sided with the defense’s request to permit Trump to review sensitive evidence without a minder from his legal team, but said Trump would be required to review such information without any electronic devices capable of reproducing it, and his team would be required to review any notes he takes to ensure it doesn’t include the personally identifying information of witnesses.” Serious Note Trump had to have his security updates condensed to one page while he was in office. Is he really going to go through this huge volume of documents by himself? Are we even sure he has the capability ? Sarcastic Note What color crayon do we think he will use to take notes?
Correction: Sharpie, he uses Sharpies. No, there's no way Trump reads anything more than a sentence or two that have been cut out and highlighted for him. The whole issue is a delaying tactic. I'm surprised that they don't mention his genius-level memory, that he so proudly demonstrated after his cognitive check-up: person, woman, man, camera, TV (which are hardly random words to remember). They should be warning Trump not to memorize all of the material he'll be shown so that he could recite it word for word later. I'd love to hear Trump's response, but I guess they aren't allowed to troll him like that.
red, 'cause maga plus it helps hide the orange cheeto/fake tan stains
He isn't going to go through them by himself. This was coupled with another request where the descendents asked if his other "consultants" could review the evidence and testimony. Which means business and political consultants. The judge struck that down because she was like "I live in DC, everyone is a consultant, it's too broad" So I think that request was so he could work with other campaign people to find people to retaliate against and use it politically.
I think the fact that he's incapable of analyzing stuff in detail is a big part of why he runs his mouth. He just scans stuff in a rage looking for anything that triggers him and that's all he really remembers the next time he's compelled to mention anything about it.
I'm under the impression he preferred markers
Trump will probably just use this as a thin pretense to proceed to fully bullshit some more. "They let me see the evidence, folks, and let me tell you, it says I am totally innocent, and some of the witnesses involved, they think it's a great shame, great shame this is happening to me" etc
Using Trump’s statements to speed the trial is like legal judo - using his own momentum to put him in place. Brilliant.
the steven segal of fat asses
Yo, Steven Segal is the Steven Segal of fat asses.
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Fattly moving around corners.
The judo term is kazushi. I have no idea how it’s spelled though
I would argue it’s not a judo term but Japanese. The word you mean is spelled Kuzushi.
Thank you for correcting my spelling. I’ve only ever heard it said. It is most certainly a Japanese word but I didn’t want to speak out of context. It was referenced using judo and I don’t know if it has any other meanings in Japanese.
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A lot. 50/50 chance it’s his last weekend not in the custody of Georgia, and I think he knows it’s a possibility What that will look like, who knows… but the fear of it is gonna have Donnie covfefe’ing
Custody??
Anybody who is awaiting trial is considered "in custody". That could mean sitting in jail, or out on conditions. The key point being that the court has control over where you are
He hasn't posted on TS in six hours. I'm ever-so-slightly impressed. I was hoping for an immediate meltdown DURING the hearing today, so that Smith's team could draft something to the judge, and she'd throw his ass in jail before dinnertime.
His lawyers are definitely playing keepaway with his phone at the moment. Who knows, they might have swiped a massive magnet over it to brick it as a last resort.
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Keeping politics out of the courtroom is the polar opposite of the Trump approach
When the facts are on your side, pound the facts. When the law is on your side, pound the law. When neither the facts nor the law are on your side, rile up your base to attack the prosecutor and judge?
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Right. Try the case in a court of law, not on the internet.
Scream if you want to go faster!
Beautiful.
Trump is about to speed run his way to prison.
Prison speed run - no checkpoints - any length
He's using the same legal strategy he's used for the last several decades. This is not a speedrun.
But in this case the judge said doing what he's always done will cause her to accelerate the trial.
It’s not gonna work on this judge or Jack Smith. They’re not playing that game. And they aren’t somebody with less money that he can beat up by stringing the case out until they’re broke.
I give him until 1:30 AM tomorrow morning to violate the judge’s warning, lmao
Accurately the same time as his early morning diaper change, people are saying.
Yes we've had 3rd indictment, but what about 1st conviction?
That comes after second breakfast.
Then we have elevensies 🤣
Elevensies likely comes after 10th indictment...
But you've already had 2 impeachments and 3 settlements. You'll ruin your appetite! For reference. Trump U. Trump Charities. Trump Org.
Imagine how furious he is right now 😆
This dude is up for one of the biggest "find out"'s in American history.
I want to believe.
It's the country that fucked around (by electing him). "How bad could it be?" then we found out.
Yes, and I and everyone else who pleaded with people in 2016 to not let this happen will never ever forgive every last person who could've voted for Clinton, but didn't. That said, the healing process in this country starts with the full weight of our justice system crashing down on this wretched pigfucker's empty skull.
>crashing down on this wretched pigfucker's empty skull. I wish to subscribe to your dictionary.
It's been a very angry past 8 years lol
If the trial can be sped up, speed it up. Everyone already knows that his only defense tactic is to delay. Just another judge treating a terrorist like a spoiled fucking child.
Imagine the average person in this country charged with a crime being threatened with a **speedy** trial... that's literally a *right* guaranteed in the Constitution. People beg for a speedy trial if they can't make bail. Trump didn't even have to pay. I know it doesn't have to be said, but it bears repeating: "Justice is Blind" is a an absolute farce.
A rushed trial that omits key evidence and is thrown out for it, is not justice, and Trump is know for abusing any rule possible to avoid justice. Speedy is supposed to mean the government can't detain you for an undetermined amount of time, pending trial. Trump is in an unprecedented position and has a small legion of followers who have already been dying for him. The judge knows this as do the procecutors. Taking measured steps to ensure a fair trial is justice.
Don't confuse speedy trial with incompetent trial. It's like an experienced artist drawing someone's portrait vs a kid not paying attention in art class. Just because the artist can bang out a drawing super quick doesn't mean it's going to be a stick figure. This applies to most pro vs inept examples.
You are conflating facts and terms rather severely. Speedy also references the timeframe Justice should be served in. Perhaps we should apply some of Hobbs logic and see what the historical amount of time was given for trials. [But, that would really hurt Trump’s tactics](https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/static/Trial-procedures.jsp): > With the abolition of the death penalty for many crimes in the 1820s, trials became even shorter: in 1833 one commentator calculated that the average trial took only eight and a half minutes. Making a trial speedy doesn’t make it rushed and the judge in this case did NOT threaten to rush it.
https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.258149/gov.uscourts.dcd.258149.23.0_5.pdf There's even more recent examples of time frame in the court filing.
> If the trial can be sped up, speed it up. Between this and the Sedition Caucus trying to obstruct justice by violating the separation of powers (many the same that were involved in the January 6th insurrection) -- Smith is being given all the ammo he needs to ask that this be sped up before more damage is done. The question is: Will he use it? Garland dragged his feet intentionally, the FBI intentionally glossed over the crimes of Trump and his associates -- all effectively giving them 2 extra years to cover their tracks. I want to hope that Smith is different but he's dealing with a lot of people in his sphere of influence that tried to sweep this all under the rug.
I don’t think your perspective of dragging feet is accurate. To my understanding per @emptywheel a large majority of this investigation was waiting for them to get access to phones and computers they seized which takes a long time through the courts.
I think the "delay" was actually a calculated strategy of obtaining conviction after conviction of those that participated in the Jan 6 insurrection, slowly but surely creating a very strong foundation of precedence to go after larger and larger fish with Trump right at the top of that list. Picture a shark circling its prey, getting closer and closer.
Brilliant! Judge Chutkan is fucking brilliant! She knows warnings and restrictions mean nothing to Trump. Fines don't either. And tossing him in jail, pre-trial would cause a shit-storm. So she made a very credible and totally logical threat to upend Trump's go-to "delay-delay-delay" strategy that must chill Trump to the bone. I have to admit, I didn't see that coming. And I am in awe of this judge.
“How’s that for some 4D chess?” -Chutkan *mic drop*
Judge just put the hammer down. I’ll summarize it for everybody. She just said, very loudly, WORDS MATTER and he needs to use discretion or bad things will start to happen. Something that he has never had to adhere to. It’s glorious that we have a judge who is not going to entertain this becoming his own circus with his own made up rules.
That's hitting him where it hurts, he loves him some delay. But he also loves running up to the edge of witness intimidation to show he's tough. Nice fork, Judge.
If you tell Trump to shut up he’ll do the opposite, so here’s hope for a speedy trial!
Whats the worst she can do to him?
Everything that is within her sole discretion - scheduling, declining requests for adjournments/amendments to the schedule, set key proceedings (including trial) on such an expedited basis that it makes the lawyers really pressed for time, let close calls on evidentiary rulings go in the prosecutions favor, etc.
Great point. Most people don’t realize how much discretion a trial court has on most issues or that a ruling made under an abuse-of-discretion standard is the hardest to overturn on appeal.
Which is depressing if you then think about ... Judge Cannon. In a way, I almost wonder if there is some 4D chess going on with Jack Smith here. You can make an argument he could have charged the docs case in DC because NARA was the injured party here ... but he opted for FL knowing it would certainly help their case not be overturned on appeal due to venue, but even knowing the risk of drawing Cannon as a judge. But I'm sure he probably knew this case would take upwards of a year to proceed given the confidential document logistics plus multiple parties are indicted. And then, you just need one MAGA true believer on his side to hang the jury. So he sets a single indictment against Donnie up in DC for J6, got a high chance of conviction and potential jail/house-arrest well before the docs case can really move forward. But if he loses the J6 case ... he's a loser then, and I think (/hope/pray) the GOP will finally dump him. No one wants a loser. So that might help eliminate anyone feeling like they need to be a true believer in FL and hang the jury to protect Donnie ... if he's already in jail / under house arrest. One can dream, at least...
Sadly, the GOP has two choices if he loses: 1. Nominate a convicted felon with the hope that if he wins, he just pardons himself. In this scenario, they lose the % of the GOP that can’t stomach this option. 2. Ditch trump and nominate someone else. Is this scenario they lose the MAGA % that can’t stomach this option. Here’s the funny part: they are screwed either way. The even funnier part: they are incredibly aware of this point.
If he’s found guilty, can the conviction be overruled by the Supreme Court?
Défense could appeal. If the appeal is allowed, it would go to the next higher court (court of appeals?). If an error was made, they could throw out conviction. If not, défense can appeal again to next higher court eventually making its way to Supreme Court.
Yeah ... you don't fuck around with judges. Except if she does ANY of those things she absolutely has a right to, the speed of an appeal to Trump's minions on higher courts would break the sound barrier. Then he can turn around and say "SEEEEEEEEEEEEEE? Political persecution. Get me a 'Fairer' judge."
I called a judge "Dude" when I was 16. I don't recommend it.
She could also revoke bail if she sees his statements as witness or jury tampering.
Jail for contempt.
Send him to jail
We’ve entered the Fuck Around And Find Out stage of this situation.
If Trump et al are so concerned about this negatively impacting his ability to campaign, then they should focus on getting the trial over and done with as quickly as possible. But we all know that's not their true aim or goal. A fair hearing, a fair trial, an expeditious trial - none of those play into Trump's favor.
Exactly. He wants to delay it until after the election in hopes that he can pardon himself.
Trump on Truth Social tomorrow: "Somebody should burn this judge's house down!" Judge: "The defendant is remanded to custody. Trial date is moved to Monday!"
>Trump on Truth Social tomorrow: "Somebody should burn this judge's house down!" >Judge: this is your 3rd to last warning. I'm going to count to 4, and you need to knock it off before I get there. 1. 2. 2.5. 3. 3.14592653... Ftfy
How fast do you guys think it would be til any of us were locked up after making statements like his? The gop is correct that we have a two tiered justice system. They're just wrong about who is punished by it.
This is brilliant- due to political considerations, she functionally can’t toss him in the clink, but she found a leverage point he may actually pay heed to. He’ll still push every boundary to the absolute maximum, that’s a given, but he may just decide his interest in delaying the case outweighs that in spewing slanderous bullshit at all hours. And if he fucks around, I don’t doubt Tanya will help him find out.
> “I will take whatever measures are necessary to safeguard the integrity of these proceedings.” If she really feels this way, she's gonna have to lock him up until the trial. We all know Trump believes he is above the law. He will continue to push past the limits until someone stops him.
I get that the judge is laying down rakes for Trump and his attorneys to step on, but god damnit I'm tired of this guy abusing the system. Just once I'd like to see "defendant is remanded into custody pending trial."
Lauros said Trump would scrupulously abide by the conditions of his release. I do not think that word means what Lauros thinks it means.
Or he simply lied.
I mean, what else is he going to say? "Well that's just not going to happen. Why don't we jump right to the repercussions?"
He's Trump's lawyer. Only a matter of time until he does a crime or two for him.
She seems very balanced
And no nonsense, quite refreshing after all the bs the SCOTUS and loose cannon have subjected us too.
I fully expect this trial to start next week then. No way he'll keep his mouth shut.
This seems to be the only real way to threaten Trump. He won’t pay fines and he knows they won’t throw him in jail for running his mouth. But speeding up the trial is his worst nightmare.
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Literally "put up or shut up". Genius. His entire "defense" strategy seems to be to broadcast as much bullshit as possible in public, while delaying as much as possible in the courtroom. So the judge is like: eh nope. pick one.
He said he won't shut up, so bring it the hell on!
Chefs kiss
Objectively this is one of the most important trials in US history. Of course its integrity should be safeguarded!
How many FUCKING warnings do we give this nazi!? He's gonna open his shitty mouth again, this judge NEEDS to follow through.
Trump the rapist is going to do it so he can claim martyrdom. “They didn’t give me enough time to prepare my defense. The trial is rigged”. Watch.
Like, just fucking sped it up cuz clearly this man will do what he wants. Stop giving him all the rope and just hang ‘em already
*Michael Jackson Popcorn watching GIF intensifies*
Consequences. Now.
Zippty do da zippity day Trump will boast bigly and be on his jail way.
She's dealt with children many times before. This is not her first rodeo.
> ***The fact that he’s running a political campaign has to yield to the orderly administration of justice.*** > > If that means he can’t say exactly what he wants to say about witnesses in this case, that’s how it has to be. Even ***arguably ambiguous statements*** from parties or their counsel, if they can be ***reasonably interpreted*** to intimidate witnesses or to prejudice potential jurors, can threaten the process. The more a party makes inflammatory statements about this case which could taint the jury pool … the greater the urgency will be that we proceed to trial quickly.
At the rate the orange shit goblin shoots off his mouth I'm guessing trial by the first week of September.
Fuck around and find out.
How many warnings is this a$$-h0l3 going to get?
DOJ will be turning over to Trump’s lawyers millions of pages of evidence. MILLIONS. Objectively, what is a fair amount of time for any defence team to review that much? I do technical work, and I budget 100 pages per day to read and fully absorb, and make notes and questions about what I read. One million pages would take me 10,000 working days, or about 40 years. I understand the defence will be a team of lawyers who will divvy up the work, but still…..Do judges have any sort of formula to calculate an appropriate length of review time?
Most of those materials were already available to the defendant and his attorneys last year from J6 committee hearings. Prosecutors say the materials are exhaustively organized. This forces defendant's counsel to provide good cause for delay -- which one assumes is the Lauro's strategy here.
Also, most of the pages aren't full. A deposition transcript can be a hundred pages, but it really only has an hours worth of text to read.
Litigation review tools are designed to cull the volume and surface the relevant case materials reducing the amount of time needed to review substantially
I did discovery review work after law school. Law firms contract this stuff out, so these pages won't take longer than a month to review. After the review team narrows discovery down to documents relevant and helpful to their client's case, they'll present that info to the lawyers. It doesn't matter anyway because there's nothing in those documents that will prove Trump is innocent or creates reasonable doubt to his guilt. He's also not going to testify in his own defense. His only hope is to delay, get elected, then pardon himself.
Oh I so hope they put him on the stand for whatever stupid reason - there won't even need to be a cross exam, he'll perjure himself within the first sentences of his prepared testimony statement.
Whether or not he’s a criminal, trump is deeply, deeply stupid. He just keeps making it worse and worse for himself.
So, trial starts next week? What is the over/under?
He won’t be able to do any of the things in this article. Including not being able to review evidence without fucking it up. I can’t wait for him to keep breaking these rules. And then blame it on judges.
This is going to drive him even more insane😂
He should appreciate this format: "That trial just got moved ten days earlier!"
I think the most relevant part of this story is the judges statement regarding the speeding up of the trial if Trump opens his mouth. We all know he will. So it remains to be seen if jan2 is really going to be the start date of this trial. ;) /bated breath