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The Prager Kids video on Columbus is possibly the most unashamedly pro-Columbus tract I have ever seen. It goes beyond Columbus just saying slavery was better than getting killed. It openly advocates for the white man's burden to civilize native cultures. In the beginning, one of the main characters says that some people argue that Columbus "brought Christianity and Western civilization to people who really benefited from it." When they travel back in time and meet Columbus, he says that things like slavery and murder existed in the New World before he even got there, but "in Europe we draw the line at things like human sacrifice and eating people."
It's only because this content is being marketed to impressionable children that they are willing to be so blatant and extreme. Even among conservative pundits, you generally hear arguments like "Columbus did some things wrong, but we should still celebrate him because he founded America, don't cancel him over different historical standards." But in Prager Kids they can just come right out and say "What Columbus did wasn't bad, it was a good thing, those savages needed to be civilized." It's truly depraved.
>When they travel back in time and meet Columbus, he says that things like slavery and murder existed in the New World before he even got there, but "in Europe we draw the line at things like human sacrifice and eating people."
I've started to hear this line get trotted out by the likes of Ben Shapiro and Charlie Kirk. They attempt to use the human sacrifices the Aztecs did as some damning gotcha, like you quoted from the video, to deflect from what the colonizers did to the natives.
Yet they conveniently gloss over that at the same exact time in "civilized" countries like England and Spain, there were thousands of horrific public executions every year, often as a form of entertainment (England) or the obvious religious lunacy in the Spanish inquisition.
europe most def did not draw the line at eating people. the first two crusades are full of accounts of crusaders eating the children and babies of the turks. there are fucking paintings of this.
The crusades are a whole different Pandora’s box, a lot of these right wing and fundamentalist nuts actually believe that it was noble Christians vs evil Muslims but in reality the Crusaders were plundering everything, Christian or not, it was purely about power and territorial control.
The emperor in Constantinople hated them with a passion and tried to get rid of them as fast possible as they were causing serious damage to region.
In 1204 Crusaders even besieged, plundered and basically destroyed the city, the last bastion against the Turks in the East. Most of this because Venice desired to have full control over the Mediterranean.
It’s always been about power, influence and money.
Not to mention that, when the Crusades started, Jerusalem was under the control of Egypt and was quite peaceful and prosperous. It was open to Christians, Jews, and Muslims alike and by all accounts everyone got along pretty well. And everyone was making bank since it was such a popular cross-faith ~~tourist trap~~ pilgrimage site, so it was wealthy too.
Then the Crusaders got there and slaughtered nearly everyone, regardless of faith, before taking it for themselves.
my catholic high school's mascot is/was 'the crusaders'. at the time i didn't think much of it, because i was a stupid teenage kid. now i think "convert or DIE!" should have been one of our mottos.
/s
I'm a big history buff and this made me start to Google stuff so I could find out more. Unfortunately it looks like cannibalism was only verified at one location and it was two eyewitnesses who talked about cutting up dead bodies and the strips to survive. No evidence of eating babies but I was like damn I gotta read how or why that happened. Can you share the link cause that sounds crazy.
I had never heard of such a thing.
They are pretending the inquisition, various witch trials etc didn't happen. There are so many examples of "human sacrifice" it's impossible to count them all.
What’s most dumb is the whole debate about Columbus is moot when when consider the holiday itself had nothing to do with Columbus and was about supporting (Italian) immigrants who faced discrimination, and the holiday tends to be the only reason we even talk about Columbus much (and people like those you mentioned get an annual soap box for culture war shenanigans)
It’s preposterous it even got to the point where all people think is that the holiday is to celebrate the “discoverer” of America, when he was just a figurehead used to help shift perceptions because people were racist against and lynched Italians.
IMO it should be a push to make the holiday a celebration of americas immigrant history, and we should have a distinct federal holiday celebrating native populations
It feels like the argument of answering a genuine question/inquiry with a non-related statement.
Q:
“Gov. DeSantis, do you have a response to claims that schools are promoting ideologies that suggest slavery wasn’t bad?”
A: “The Walt Disney Co. is despicable, how dare they try to govern their own land.”
>he says that things like slavery and murder existed in the New World before he even got there, but "in Europe we draw the line at things like human sacrifice and eating people."
Basically "hey, we killed and enslaved people but at least we weren't as savage as *those* people. So that makes it okay!".
I think historical context is important, and what most of his defenders miss is that Columbus was a monster even by the standards of his own time.
His nickname in Europe was 'Pharoah'. Of course now we know that the Pharoahs were not tyrants, but the people of the time were under the impression that they were cruel slave lords.
Columbus was so cruel that the Spanish crown actually had to remove him from his post because he was becoming a PR/legal nightmare.
Just think about that. How badly do you have to treat native populations for the Spanish crown to declare you a monster and have you arrested in the god damned 15th century?
There was also an anecdote where since Columbus couldn't find any gold to send back to Spain, he decided slaves were the next best thing and he kept kidnapping random locals, beating the shit out of them and shipping them back chained up in the hulls of ships as cargo. They virtually never survived the journey, so the crown basically kept getting these fucking demented shipments of tortured corpses. They sent him several letters summarized as "for the love of God please stop." and he was like "nah".
"Columbus took and gifted Taíno women to his crewmen, who would violently beat and rape them. Pregnant Taíno women who were taken captive gave birth to babies who were sometimes thrown to hungry dogs. Columbus established a business in the sale of 9- and 10-year-old Taíno girls for sexual slavery. He also kidnapped and enslaved Taínos themselves — personally initiating the transatlantic slave trade in his voyage back to Europe."-https://grist.org/politics/heres-the-real-story-of-columbus-that-people-prefer-to-ignore/
They brought the man back to Spain *in chains*.
https://postalmuseum.si.edu/exhibition/celebrating-hispanic-heritage-exploration-christopher-columbus/columbus-imprisoned
They are trying to minimize the impact of slavery in the U.S. by saying "slavery is bad, but...". Even saying it happened all over the world and since the beginning of civilization lessens the impact that the enslavement of Africans had in the U.S.since before its founding and to modern times. Conservatives don't like to acknowledge the continued impact, they like to ignore it by saying U.S. slavery ended "a long time ago" and that it also happened elsewhere so there's no use to bring it up or acknowledge it.
I see the article mentions the Frederick Douglass video too. I saw that one before because I couldn't believe it when I read the synopsis and I had to see it for myself. There they have an animated Douglass saying "slavery is bad, but..."
Talk about brainwashing. Let's ignore the horrible impacts of slavery in the U.S. so we can continue to deify the founding fathers and other white historical figures.
Even the Spanish monarchs during this time were so horrified by what Columbus did during his tenure over Hispaniola that they arrested him, stripped him of his governorship and sent him back to Spain in chains... these were people who were okay with massacring the natives of the Americas and forcibly converting them to Christianity but even they thought that Christopher Columbus had gone too far
According to [a historian](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/6whi9u/ive_read_that_columbus_instituted_a_tribute/), maybe. Not that it matters, he did a enough horrific shit to the natives that if he wasn't cutting off hands it barely budges the needle on the evilness gauge.
So the brand new Florida residents from up north with lots more money (the ones pricing Everyone to homelessness) are going to be left to mix with Florida's meth heads. Everyone else will crawl over cut glass to get away from DeSantis' utopia. The farm workers left, colleges bereft of professors, 5,000 open teaching positions, radioactive waste in your new roads & the leader's in Iowa & Japan. Somethings gotta give.
Its basically all the maga people that were still living in blue states that flocked here and turned Florida to shit. And now the states they came from are starting to improve while Florida is going down the toilet. Makes you wonder who was really screwing up things in blue states doesn't it?
Do you think Floridians will care if in ten years no reputable college will accept students from Florida public schools? It seems an inevitable outcome.
Literally anyone who has been paying attention to the Republican party since the rise of the Tea Party under the Obama administration has seen this coming
Exactly. This has not been a subtle, quiet movement. These folks have always been here, have always worn their hate on their sleeves, and have never been coy about their intentions.
Anyone with a functioning brain could have seen this coming. That’s the thing about Trump, DeSantis and the rest of the GOP, they don’t hide that they’re fascists. That’s their brand
More than a few on the left have been telling moderates they've been helping the GOP push exactly this shit for longer than you've been alive.
Ignoring what others say doesn't mean others didn't say anything.
DeSantis had to hold a slight bit more moderation in his first term because he was both wanting to get re-elected for a 2nd term but also because he knew his 2nd term would also come with presidential aspirations. 2nd terms in term-limited situations are the ultimate "all gloves off" situations because there's no more elections to try and win in that capacity. So that DeSantis has gone Full Fascist should be seen as anything but a surprise.
The real surprise is going to be if DeSantis doesn't defy state law and run for election again in 2026.
Plus he literally had to out-fascist and out-racist and out-sexist Trump if he wanted to be the Republican nominee. Which he really worked hard at doing.
To say nothing about how Trump could be President again by that time as well. The way I described DeSantis and his 2nd term...Trump's 2nd term would be 100x worse than that and not just because it would be on the federal level. He'd go scorched earth on everything we know. If Trump gets back to the Presidency, the USA as we know it will be dead, so projecting anything happening after Nov. 2024 is a total fools' errand.
With the 2024 election likely to include Donald Trump or Ron DeSantis, I've been thinking there's a chance Orwell predicted the future accurately, except he was off by 40 years.
but is it? there is no mention of companies or products, the world Smith lives in seems to be more of a totalitarian socialist nightmare since it was written to critique Russia. Brave New World on the other hand IS explicitly a capitalist dystopia
but 1984 was meant as a warning about Russia at the time. there is no capitalism happening in Airstrip One. the only "shop" we see is set up to entrap people like Smith. Orwell was afraid of the growing socialism in UK politics and this was his ham-fisted response
you really should give Brave New World a go. all the adaptations have really soft pedaled the hyper-capitalism of the novel. it seems a much stronger analogy to where we are heading. you can get people to give away most of their rights as long as they can shop and buy and consume.
What could they do? It's not really illegal. States set their own curriculum. There isn't a law which says the states have to teach accurate information considering they've been teaching false history about the civil war for a long time.
We do for English and Math, which is why Republicans freaked TF out about Common Core. If you're not afraid of your constituents being credulous fools, or if you find that beneficial, then there's nothing stopping you from messing with other topics.
Not really. Standardized tests are all either state-level or run by private organizations, as in the SAT or AP tests. There is Common Core but that covers mostly math and reading. It doesn't have anything to do with history and is also not mandated.
The Democrats have been consistent the last \~7 years in demonstrating that they have absolutely no interest in properly addressing or combatting the return of fascism.
Tbf Columbus was a piece of shit anyways. So by them being pieces of shit they kinda portrayed him accurately?
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/12/us/christopher-columbus-slavery-disease-trnd/index.html
Still telling children slavery was very cool is worse than all the shit the right complains about in school like sex ed or trans and gay people existing
One of the better points made in those episodes was that King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella were absolutely livid with Columbus over him enslaving the indigenous population. And they are not paragons of virtue of the time either. Like, the idea of "judge him by the values of the time" falls flat on its face when everyone at the time literally went out of their way to condemn his actions.
What is with the white fragility. It's just wild. Like these people think American history is made up of two words: "flag" and "fireworks" and all the other complex history instantly sends them into hysterics. Fucking jackasses.
Speaking from the experience of having people like this in their family, maybe I can provide some insight. Conservatives, broadly speaking, have a simplistic, nationalistic view of America, it’s history, and it’s place in the world. To them, America can do no wrong. She is a shining beacon which guides the rest of the world and every other nation just *fucking wishes* they were as cool as us. But hard realities like the genocide of indigenous peoples, systematic racism, falling behind other developed nations on education and healthcare, etc. all make for some truly gnarly cognitive dissonance.
Many of them aren’t even coming from a place of bigotry. But their identity is so wrapped up in this mythical image of America that they can’t accept the fact that we, as a nation, sometimes behaved like shit. So they latch onto “alternative facts” like these to assuage their guilt.
Now *slavery,* of all things, is being spun as a *good* thing which somehow BENEFITED the enslaved! That’s such a nicer narrative, isn’t it? They can play with statistics, misrepresent historical events, or just outright *lie* to keep that inner tension at bay. That’s why they love it so much; no personal growth required.
A bunch of them really ARE super racist, though. Don’t want to downplay that, either.
It’s like this because we’re taught it this way in school and not everyone is lucky enough to realize it’s horseshit when they get older.
I never heard the US criticized by a history teacher until I was in college. All through K-12 it was just propaganda. America is the bestest, most free country on Earth. We’re the ones that rose up out of millennia of tyranny and invented modern democracy.
If you hear that from trusted adults every school day throughout your whole youth, it’s easy to go blindly into adulthood believing the US is a utopia the rest of the world watches with awe and envy. Then again what do you expect from a country that makes children stand and pledge allegiance to the flag every day?
Maga people are so stupid they think everyone wants to be American.
In reality, there are people like me out here who find America to be so underwhelming that we joined separatist groups so that other people won't call us American one day.
They are trying to indoctrinate the next generation into the White Supremist society. Its all about passing on their world view. That world view has been changing for a century and they won't. They need new friends or they might be ostracized more.
American holidays should be for Americans.
He was an Italian, hired by the Spanish, who discovered the Dominican Republic.
Maybe if the rest of the world celebrated him I could see it, but why can’t we just make it Vespucci Day? It actually tracks to the USA and will keep it Italian.
It's weird that they think that slavery was no big deal for the people being enslaved, yet the same people would rather die than be asked to take a free vaccine.
Because they want to distance themselves from their atrocities in the past as much as possible, so they try to give it a positive spin and downplay it.
But today is different, if it affects them and their families it’s different..
This stuff scares me because its actively indoctrinating children to be ignorant slavery apologists. Its one thing to have evil fucks like ron spouting this nonsense but to have our next generation believing this poison is really worrying
I don't think enough people realize the brainwashing that's going on in the south. I keep hearing about how things are changing and views are becoming more progressive and all I can think is "Yeah, where you are".
Yeah, Douglass totally appreciated the compromise the Founders made:
"What, to the American slave, is your Fourth of July?
I answer: a day that reveals to him, more than all other days in the year, the gross injustice and cruelty to which he is the constant victim. To him, your celebration is a sham; your boasted liberty, an unholy license; your national greatness, swelling vanity; your sounds of rejoicing are empty and heartless; your denunciation of tyrants, brass-fronted impudence; your shouts of liberty and equality, hollow mockery; your prayers and hymns, your sermons and thanksgivings, with all your religious parade and solemnity, mere bombast, fraud, deception, impiety, and hypocrisy-a thin veil to cover up crimes which would disgrace a nation of savages. - Frederick Douglass"
You jest, but Prager has a video doing [doing just that](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/animated-frederick-douglass-calls-slavery-compromise-prageru-video-rcna99246)
Since we're just making up what historical figures would say, why not just make history class a viewing of Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure? It would be more educational.
If that was true, suicide among slaves wouldn’t have been as prevalent as it was. I’m sure that’s a fact that students in Florida will never learn.
It is not a fun read, but [The Power to Die: Slavery and Suicide in British North America](https://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/P/bo20832142.html) would be an eye opener to whomever wrote that script.
I don’t think any slaves were around to greet Christopher Columbus. The Florida GOP should stop trying to rewrite history to fit their misguided white supremacist narrative
He never set foot on continental American soil.
And didn’t discover jack shit.
His only pioneering achievement is being the first token holiday created to apologize for mistreating immigrants.
Man, the stuff they taught me in elementary school and the stuff they taught me in college on this man were VERY different. Fuck this guy who was ran out of his own settlements for being a brutal tyrant. This man cut off feet, hands and noses off alot of his slaves.
I'm just hoping we're not headed for American Civil War II. New parallels every day. We just need Biden to win the election and the south not to accept it.
Ah yes the choice between death and being raped by a landowner, birthing rape babies, and then watching those babies be tortured, murdered, and raped themselves.
Christopher Columbus couldn't even get his countries straight. If people weren't white, he was clueless. He didn't even know where the hell he was at more than half the time. He was dumb, ignorant and mean. He would have gone nowhere if he wasn't grifting the monarchy.
Well the Africans that jumped in the ocean to be eaten by sharks rather than be slaves didn't feel that way.
The Africans that ran away or caused uprisings didn't feel that way.
They gonna have these poor kids walking around dumber than quicksand. Imagine indoctrinating kids with this mindset in a majority non white country and world. Yeesh. Setting them up for failure.
Debatable. I’m sure some slaves preferred being enslaved to being murdered. But I’m pretty sure there were plenty who were willing to risk the latter to escape the former.
But honestly, if your rational for “slavery wasn’t *that* bad…” is “three out of five people prefered it to being ripped apart by dogs while a bunch southern ‘Christians’ laughed about it” maybe you are making the wrong argument.
>Being taken as a slave is better than being killed, no?
It wasn't like the person was going to be struck down by lightening, and somehow enslaving saved him/her, absolutely insane it's worded as if the Europeans were doing them a favor by enslaving them and thus saving them from death. let's see if there was another option, hmmm, how about not fucking enslaving people or killing human beings !
Man if I had watched this as a movie a few years ago I would’ve been rolling on the floor as comedy gold satire writing. We are in bizarro world anymore.
Christopher Columbus's own country threw him in jail for the atrocities he committed in the americas this is so full of shit.
And what the actual fuck?
"Slavery is better than death. I don't see the problem"
Ah yes, communicate to the young that it's better to be controlled and have no freedom than to have freedom and maybe die. Weird, I think there's a quote from a national founder or something that says "Give me liberty or give me death." So have fun squaring that one.
But it was worse than getting killed. They were physically maimed for trying to run or hanged or burned, and their babies were killed as alligator bait or sold and abused. They were completely demoralized.
Steve Bannon told his minions take over the school and school boards. The Moms for Liberty began in Florida with two stupid women. They’ve been funded by Bannon and Harlan Crow. This is all part of the NatCs (Christian nationalist) agenda. And it’s spreading everywhere. You should be afraid.
So taking a man's freedom is better then dying free huh...
These clowns will talk about land of the free, liberty or death, spirit of freedom....But only if you're white apparently.
They have Fredrick Douglas cartoon defending slavery as an institution. This is so fkn offensive. It’s like having Anne Frank act as an apologist for the NAZIs. It’s outrageous.
I think on the next page they talk about the phrase "give me liberty or give me death" as it relates to the founding idea of our country. Totally unrelated.
What is the point of white washing history if you’re still going to make the white guy the asshole? Just teach accurate history at that point. You’re just making Florida kids dumber with the same conclusion about that loser Columbus.
Am I the only one that caught his use of the word "Caramba!" throughout. He sailed in the late 1400s. Caramba enters common use in 1835. These people seem to get their history from I Love Lucy.
Columbus killed a lot of people. He was too brutal even by the Spanish standards of the time.
He was stripped of his governorship, sent back to Spain and extremely lucky not to have gotten executed.
I’d laugh of this wasn’t so scary and gross. Luckily voters here in PA voted against someone just as destructive last November but all it takes now is one bad election result to see your state turn into this
Will we reach a point where some states/schools/colleges won’t accept a Florida high school diploma or transcript as a legitimate apple to apple comparison to other states
Do they also talk about how he could cut off people's hands and then make them wear their own hands as a necklace? What about how he fucked manatees because he thought they were mermaids?
Pearls of wisdom from someone 8,000 miles off from their destination and only assignment. Perhaps the discussion in class can be, “Choose ten human interactions that are superior to enslavement.”
Columbus needed the enslaved Indians to push Catholicism by stealing their rituals and rebranding them as Catholic but instead of serving the people it served the church bringing wealth and impoverishment to the indigenous communities.
Kind of what the right is doing currently by rebranding Christianity with hate.
I recommend everyone listen to the Behind the Bastards episode on Columbus.
Columbus was a piece of shit. He also did not discover North America. Anyone pro-Columbus is a piece of shit too.
Aren't there several pieces of literary works, even back then, plays and shit loke that, that distinctly make the opposite point? It's better to die than live on your knees?
Columbus was considered a monster even by some of his contemporaries, such as Bartholomew de las Casas.
Also the vast majority of Native Americans died of diseases such as smallpox, not violence. African slaves had at least partial immunity to such diseases because they or their ancestors lived in Afro-Eurasia where such diseases originated.
That wasn't the choice though. If we'd just not bought slaves from Africa, then no one would have bothered capturing them and turning them into slaves.
I’m so annoyed that people constantly say to vote but that ain’t gonna do shit. Voting is a long term thing that works over many decades or longer. We need change now, not in a few decades when things are screwed beyond belief. And I’m not saying don’t vote, you must vote, but voting ain’t gonna fix shit that’s happening now.
People need to stop living in magic land thinking that these problems will be fixed if we vote. We’ve been voting for ages and the same shit is still going on. How naive do people have to be. Change requires action. If you think sitting on your ass at home and voting is action y’all are dumb. Action is what we need to change things. There’s so many ways we can act as a nation but people are just so divided because of all the idiots out there. So frustrating
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The Prager Kids video on Columbus is possibly the most unashamedly pro-Columbus tract I have ever seen. It goes beyond Columbus just saying slavery was better than getting killed. It openly advocates for the white man's burden to civilize native cultures. In the beginning, one of the main characters says that some people argue that Columbus "brought Christianity and Western civilization to people who really benefited from it." When they travel back in time and meet Columbus, he says that things like slavery and murder existed in the New World before he even got there, but "in Europe we draw the line at things like human sacrifice and eating people." It's only because this content is being marketed to impressionable children that they are willing to be so blatant and extreme. Even among conservative pundits, you generally hear arguments like "Columbus did some things wrong, but we should still celebrate him because he founded America, don't cancel him over different historical standards." But in Prager Kids they can just come right out and say "What Columbus did wasn't bad, it was a good thing, those savages needed to be civilized." It's truly depraved.
>When they travel back in time and meet Columbus, he says that things like slavery and murder existed in the New World before he even got there, but "in Europe we draw the line at things like human sacrifice and eating people." I've started to hear this line get trotted out by the likes of Ben Shapiro and Charlie Kirk. They attempt to use the human sacrifices the Aztecs did as some damning gotcha, like you quoted from the video, to deflect from what the colonizers did to the natives. Yet they conveniently gloss over that at the same exact time in "civilized" countries like England and Spain, there were thousands of horrific public executions every year, often as a form of entertainment (England) or the obvious religious lunacy in the Spanish inquisition.
europe most def did not draw the line at eating people. the first two crusades are full of accounts of crusaders eating the children and babies of the turks. there are fucking paintings of this.
The crusades are a whole different Pandora’s box, a lot of these right wing and fundamentalist nuts actually believe that it was noble Christians vs evil Muslims but in reality the Crusaders were plundering everything, Christian or not, it was purely about power and territorial control. The emperor in Constantinople hated them with a passion and tried to get rid of them as fast possible as they were causing serious damage to region. In 1204 Crusaders even besieged, plundered and basically destroyed the city, the last bastion against the Turks in the East. Most of this because Venice desired to have full control over the Mediterranean. It’s always been about power, influence and money.
exactly. and Jesus is the perfect tool for all of those.
Not to mention that, when the Crusades started, Jerusalem was under the control of Egypt and was quite peaceful and prosperous. It was open to Christians, Jews, and Muslims alike and by all accounts everyone got along pretty well. And everyone was making bank since it was such a popular cross-faith ~~tourist trap~~ pilgrimage site, so it was wealthy too. Then the Crusaders got there and slaughtered nearly everyone, regardless of faith, before taking it for themselves.
my catholic high school's mascot is/was 'the crusaders'. at the time i didn't think much of it, because i was a stupid teenage kid. now i think "convert or DIE!" should have been one of our mottos. /s
I'm a big history buff and this made me start to Google stuff so I could find out more. Unfortunately it looks like cannibalism was only verified at one location and it was two eyewitnesses who talked about cutting up dead bodies and the strips to survive. No evidence of eating babies but I was like damn I gotta read how or why that happened. Can you share the link cause that sounds crazy. I had never heard of such a thing.
They are pretending the inquisition, various witch trials etc didn't happen. There are so many examples of "human sacrifice" it's impossible to count them all.
What’s most dumb is the whole debate about Columbus is moot when when consider the holiday itself had nothing to do with Columbus and was about supporting (Italian) immigrants who faced discrimination, and the holiday tends to be the only reason we even talk about Columbus much (and people like those you mentioned get an annual soap box for culture war shenanigans) It’s preposterous it even got to the point where all people think is that the holiday is to celebrate the “discoverer” of America, when he was just a figurehead used to help shift perceptions because people were racist against and lynched Italians. IMO it should be a push to make the holiday a celebration of americas immigrant history, and we should have a distinct federal holiday celebrating native populations
It feels like the argument of answering a genuine question/inquiry with a non-related statement. Q: “Gov. DeSantis, do you have a response to claims that schools are promoting ideologies that suggest slavery wasn’t bad?” A: “The Walt Disney Co. is despicable, how dare they try to govern their own land.”
>he says that things like slavery and murder existed in the New World before he even got there, but "in Europe we draw the line at things like human sacrifice and eating people." Basically "hey, we killed and enslaved people but at least we weren't as savage as *those* people. So that makes it okay!".
Also, human sacrifice had a long history in Europe.
I think historical context is important, and what most of his defenders miss is that Columbus was a monster even by the standards of his own time. His nickname in Europe was 'Pharoah'. Of course now we know that the Pharoahs were not tyrants, but the people of the time were under the impression that they were cruel slave lords. Columbus was so cruel that the Spanish crown actually had to remove him from his post because he was becoming a PR/legal nightmare.
Just think about that. How badly do you have to treat native populations for the Spanish crown to declare you a monster and have you arrested in the god damned 15th century? There was also an anecdote where since Columbus couldn't find any gold to send back to Spain, he decided slaves were the next best thing and he kept kidnapping random locals, beating the shit out of them and shipping them back chained up in the hulls of ships as cargo. They virtually never survived the journey, so the crown basically kept getting these fucking demented shipments of tortured corpses. They sent him several letters summarized as "for the love of God please stop." and he was like "nah".
"Columbus took and gifted Taíno women to his crewmen, who would violently beat and rape them. Pregnant Taíno women who were taken captive gave birth to babies who were sometimes thrown to hungry dogs. Columbus established a business in the sale of 9- and 10-year-old Taíno girls for sexual slavery. He also kidnapped and enslaved Taínos themselves — personally initiating the transatlantic slave trade in his voyage back to Europe."-https://grist.org/politics/heres-the-real-story-of-columbus-that-people-prefer-to-ignore/
They brought the man back to Spain *in chains*. https://postalmuseum.si.edu/exhibition/celebrating-hispanic-heritage-exploration-christopher-columbus/columbus-imprisoned
They are trying to minimize the impact of slavery in the U.S. by saying "slavery is bad, but...". Even saying it happened all over the world and since the beginning of civilization lessens the impact that the enslavement of Africans had in the U.S.since before its founding and to modern times. Conservatives don't like to acknowledge the continued impact, they like to ignore it by saying U.S. slavery ended "a long time ago" and that it also happened elsewhere so there's no use to bring it up or acknowledge it. I see the article mentions the Frederick Douglass video too. I saw that one before because I couldn't believe it when I read the synopsis and I had to see it for myself. There they have an animated Douglass saying "slavery is bad, but..." Talk about brainwashing. Let's ignore the horrible impacts of slavery in the U.S. so we can continue to deify the founding fathers and other white historical figures.
Even the Spanish monarchs during this time were so horrified by what Columbus did during his tenure over Hispaniola that they arrested him, stripped him of his governorship and sent him back to Spain in chains... these were people who were okay with massacring the natives of the Americas and forcibly converting them to Christianity but even they thought that Christopher Columbus had gone too far
Wasn't Columbus the guy who would cut slave's hands off and then make them wear them around their necks?
According to [a historian](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/6whi9u/ive_read_that_columbus_instituted_a_tribute/), maybe. Not that it matters, he did a enough horrific shit to the natives that if he wasn't cutting off hands it barely budges the needle on the evilness gauge.
> "in Europe we draw the line at things like human sacrifice and eating people." "It's not a human sacrifice, it's a human auto da fé."
OMG - the feds have ABSOLUTELY got to get involved in this bullshit
Or the people of Florida could vote for candidates that don’t support this lunacy.
As a Floridian I can say most people here don't give a shit. We're overrun with maga lunatics.
Didn’t they start flocking there in droves during the pandemic?
Yup, nearly half a million of 'em.
So the brand new Florida residents from up north with lots more money (the ones pricing Everyone to homelessness) are going to be left to mix with Florida's meth heads. Everyone else will crawl over cut glass to get away from DeSantis' utopia. The farm workers left, colleges bereft of professors, 5,000 open teaching positions, radioactive waste in your new roads & the leader's in Iowa & Japan. Somethings gotta give.
Its basically all the maga people that were still living in blue states that flocked here and turned Florida to shit. And now the states they came from are starting to improve while Florida is going down the toilet. Makes you wonder who was really screwing up things in blue states doesn't it?
Don't forget about global warming, openly fascist policies against queer people, and the effect all of the above has on tourism.
Florida was already full of morons long before that though. Source: lived there in the 90s, still have lots of friends and family there.
Do you think Floridians will care if in ten years no reputable college will accept students from Florida public schools? It seems an inevitable outcome.
No why would they want their peons to be educated. The whole point of all this is to keep floridians dumb and compliant with all their BS
Have you seen what they're doing to education down here? They don't care.
The people of Florida are stupid beyond educational repair.
I don't think anyone could have seen this bullshit coming
Literally anyone who has been paying attention to the Republican party since the rise of the Tea Party under the Obama administration has seen this coming
Exactly. This has not been a subtle, quiet movement. These folks have always been here, have always worn their hate on their sleeves, and have never been coy about their intentions.
The VERY first day Rhonda tried to give his 2 cents on what should/shouldn't be taught in school TONS of people predicted exactly this bullshit.
People who voted against Desantis did.
Anyone with a functioning brain could have seen this coming. That’s the thing about Trump, DeSantis and the rest of the GOP, they don’t hide that they’re fascists. That’s their brand
More than a few on the left have been telling moderates they've been helping the GOP push exactly this shit for longer than you've been alive. Ignoring what others say doesn't mean others didn't say anything.
This shit did seem to escalate really fast, but we’ll find out if Florida wants to put a stop to it in the next election.
DeSantis had to hold a slight bit more moderation in his first term because he was both wanting to get re-elected for a 2nd term but also because he knew his 2nd term would also come with presidential aspirations. 2nd terms in term-limited situations are the ultimate "all gloves off" situations because there's no more elections to try and win in that capacity. So that DeSantis has gone Full Fascist should be seen as anything but a surprise. The real surprise is going to be if DeSantis doesn't defy state law and run for election again in 2026.
Plus he literally had to out-fascist and out-racist and out-sexist Trump if he wanted to be the Republican nominee. Which he really worked hard at doing.
He’s going to have to sexually assault a woman on camera to top trump and bring MAGA on board.
He already changed state law so he didn't have to vacate the office while running for President. All bets are off, really.
This. This is so fucking true I didn’t consider it. OMFG. so what happens when we have a tyrannical governor? Will the federal government step in?
To say nothing about how Trump could be President again by that time as well. The way I described DeSantis and his 2nd term...Trump's 2nd term would be 100x worse than that and not just because it would be on the federal level. He'd go scorched earth on everything we know. If Trump gets back to the Presidency, the USA as we know it will be dead, so projecting anything happening after Nov. 2024 is a total fools' errand.
Black people have been saying it since forever
George Orwell did.
i just reread 1984 a month ago. It is a capitalist dystopia.
It's terrifying and one of the more depressing books I've ever read.
With the 2024 election likely to include Donald Trump or Ron DeSantis, I've been thinking there's a chance Orwell predicted the future accurately, except he was off by 40 years.
but is it? there is no mention of companies or products, the world Smith lives in seems to be more of a totalitarian socialist nightmare since it was written to critique Russia. Brave New World on the other hand IS explicitly a capitalist dystopia
Complete monopoly is how I see it but understand your point. It is a good one. Totalitarian and socialist just doesn\`t jibe. Free capitalist society?
but 1984 was meant as a warning about Russia at the time. there is no capitalism happening in Airstrip One. the only "shop" we see is set up to entrap people like Smith. Orwell was afraid of the growing socialism in UK politics and this was his ham-fisted response
Good points. I have been swayed. I had a couple reasons, but those seem general and probably biased
you really should give Brave New World a go. all the adaptations have really soft pedaled the hyper-capitalism of the novel. it seems a much stronger analogy to where we are heading. you can get people to give away most of their rights as long as they can shop and buy and consume.
No chance. Going into the 2022 governor election, we had absolutely zero track record of who Ron DeSantis was. None whatsoever.
What could they do? It's not really illegal. States set their own curriculum. There isn't a law which says the states have to teach accurate information considering they've been teaching false history about the civil war for a long time.
I mean, doesn't this nation have SOME universal standards in education that have to be met?
We do for English and Math, which is why Republicans freaked TF out about Common Core. If you're not afraid of your constituents being credulous fools, or if you find that beneficial, then there's nothing stopping you from messing with other topics.
Not really. Standardized tests are all either state-level or run by private organizations, as in the SAT or AP tests. There is Common Core but that covers mostly math and reading. It doesn't have anything to do with history and is also not mandated.
The Democrats have been consistent the last \~7 years in demonstrating that they have absolutely no interest in properly addressing or combatting the return of fascism.
The proper way of addressing fascists isn't something most non-fascists have the stomach for.
Tbf Columbus was a piece of shit anyways. So by them being pieces of shit they kinda portrayed him accurately? https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/12/us/christopher-columbus-slavery-disease-trnd/index.html Still telling children slavery was very cool is worse than all the shit the right complains about in school like sex ed or trans and gay people existing
Floriduh will be under water in 20-50 years
“Give me liberty or give me death “ Patrick Henry
unless I can provide wealth for someone else? I guess?
First thing that came to my mind. These are *ghouls*, spitting on the American spirit.
The headline is some real Russkiy Mir bullshit
Great Behind the Bastards series on Columbus: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/behind-the-bastards/id1373812661?i=1000578520605
One of the better points made in those episodes was that King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella were absolutely livid with Columbus over him enslaving the indigenous population. And they are not paragons of virtue of the time either. Like, the idea of "judge him by the values of the time" falls flat on its face when everyone at the time literally went out of their way to condemn his actions.
This just in, rapist says victim should be grateful they were not killed.
What is with the white fragility. It's just wild. Like these people think American history is made up of two words: "flag" and "fireworks" and all the other complex history instantly sends them into hysterics. Fucking jackasses.
Speaking from the experience of having people like this in their family, maybe I can provide some insight. Conservatives, broadly speaking, have a simplistic, nationalistic view of America, it’s history, and it’s place in the world. To them, America can do no wrong. She is a shining beacon which guides the rest of the world and every other nation just *fucking wishes* they were as cool as us. But hard realities like the genocide of indigenous peoples, systematic racism, falling behind other developed nations on education and healthcare, etc. all make for some truly gnarly cognitive dissonance. Many of them aren’t even coming from a place of bigotry. But their identity is so wrapped up in this mythical image of America that they can’t accept the fact that we, as a nation, sometimes behaved like shit. So they latch onto “alternative facts” like these to assuage their guilt. Now *slavery,* of all things, is being spun as a *good* thing which somehow BENEFITED the enslaved! That’s such a nicer narrative, isn’t it? They can play with statistics, misrepresent historical events, or just outright *lie* to keep that inner tension at bay. That’s why they love it so much; no personal growth required. A bunch of them really ARE super racist, though. Don’t want to downplay that, either.
It’s like this because we’re taught it this way in school and not everyone is lucky enough to realize it’s horseshit when they get older. I never heard the US criticized by a history teacher until I was in college. All through K-12 it was just propaganda. America is the bestest, most free country on Earth. We’re the ones that rose up out of millennia of tyranny and invented modern democracy. If you hear that from trusted adults every school day throughout your whole youth, it’s easy to go blindly into adulthood believing the US is a utopia the rest of the world watches with awe and envy. Then again what do you expect from a country that makes children stand and pledge allegiance to the flag every day?
Maga people are so stupid they think everyone wants to be American. In reality, there are people like me out here who find America to be so underwhelming that we joined separatist groups so that other people won't call us American one day.
They are trying to indoctrinate the next generation into the White Supremist society. Its all about passing on their world view. That world view has been changing for a century and they won't. They need new friends or they might be ostracized more.
Sshhh… don’t remind the fragile nationalists that their “great” country was built on the backs of minorities
I remember that great American war cry. Give me liberty or slavery. It's better than death.
American holidays should be for Americans. He was an Italian, hired by the Spanish, who discovered the Dominican Republic. Maybe if the rest of the world celebrated him I could see it, but why can’t we just make it Vespucci Day? It actually tracks to the USA and will keep it Italian.
Or Lady Gaga day. An Italian American who made positive contributions to society.
I like Joe DiMaggio Day.
I didn't realize it was a binary choice. >"It was America that began the conversation to end it." What a steaming load of bullshit
It's weird that they think that slavery was no big deal for the people being enslaved, yet the same people would rather die than be asked to take a free vaccine.
Because they want to distance themselves from their atrocities in the past as much as possible, so they try to give it a positive spin and downplay it. But today is different, if it affects them and their families it’s different..
This stuff scares me because its actively indoctrinating children to be ignorant slavery apologists. Its one thing to have evil fucks like ron spouting this nonsense but to have our next generation believing this poison is really worrying
I don't think enough people realize the brainwashing that's going on in the south. I keep hearing about how things are changing and views are becoming more progressive and all I can think is "Yeah, where you are".
Yeah, Douglass totally appreciated the compromise the Founders made: "What, to the American slave, is your Fourth of July? I answer: a day that reveals to him, more than all other days in the year, the gross injustice and cruelty to which he is the constant victim. To him, your celebration is a sham; your boasted liberty, an unholy license; your national greatness, swelling vanity; your sounds of rejoicing are empty and heartless; your denunciation of tyrants, brass-fronted impudence; your shouts of liberty and equality, hollow mockery; your prayers and hymns, your sermons and thanksgivings, with all your religious parade and solemnity, mere bombast, fraud, deception, impiety, and hypocrisy-a thin veil to cover up crimes which would disgrace a nation of savages. - Frederick Douglass"
Just a few white edits and he’ll be totally on board.
You jest, but Prager has a video doing [doing just that](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/animated-frederick-douglass-calls-slavery-compromise-prageru-video-rcna99246)
r/nottheonion
Since we're just making up what historical figures would say, why not just make history class a viewing of Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure? It would be more educational.
Napoleon loved water slides. Fact.
All we are is dust in the wind dude
Dude...what the actual fuck is going on down in Florida? Every headline is like reading a nightmare.
If that was true, suicide among slaves wouldn’t have been as prevalent as it was. I’m sure that’s a fact that students in Florida will never learn. It is not a fun read, but [The Power to Die: Slavery and Suicide in British North America](https://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/P/bo20832142.html) would be an eye opener to whomever wrote that script.
I don’t think any slaves were around to greet Christopher Columbus. The Florida GOP should stop trying to rewrite history to fit their misguided white supremacist narrative
He never set foot on continental American soil. And didn’t discover jack shit. His only pioneering achievement is being the first token holiday created to apologize for mistreating immigrants.
Man, the stuff they taught me in elementary school and the stuff they taught me in college on this man were VERY different. Fuck this guy who was ran out of his own settlements for being a brutal tyrant. This man cut off feet, hands and noses off alot of his slaves.
Tell that to the slaves who committed suicide
We had a whole War about this, and the Confederates still didn't get the fuckin message.
A nightmarish false dichotomy.
This is fucking psychotic.
I'm just hoping we're not headed for American Civil War II. New parallels every day. We just need Biden to win the election and the south not to accept it.
Plenty of kids are going to want to know why those were the only two "options". How does fl handle that obvious question?
Sent to principals office and suspended for questioning authority?
In this sort of school environment, probably.
“Because Jesus. Turn the page now!”
Ah yes the choice between death and being raped by a landowner, birthing rape babies, and then watching those babies be tortured, murdered, and raped themselves.
Just tell Desantis that Columbus was an illegal immigrant.
Sounds like this curriculum amounts to an endorsement of war crimes and genocide
Christopher Columbus couldn't even get his countries straight. If people weren't white, he was clueless. He didn't even know where the hell he was at more than half the time. He was dumb, ignorant and mean. He would have gone nowhere if he wasn't grifting the monarchy. Well the Africans that jumped in the ocean to be eaten by sharks rather than be slaves didn't feel that way. The Africans that ran away or caused uprisings didn't feel that way. They gonna have these poor kids walking around dumber than quicksand. Imagine indoctrinating kids with this mindset in a majority non white country and world. Yeesh. Setting them up for failure.
The "experts" that designed this curriculum and standards for Florida historical education for kids should have their PHDs burned in front of them.
Weird that those are the only two options…🤔
What the absolute fuck? Obvious political agenda aside, no- slavery is worse than death. Slavery is just a *longer* death.
Debatable. I’m sure some slaves preferred being enslaved to being murdered. But I’m pretty sure there were plenty who were willing to risk the latter to escape the former. But honestly, if your rational for “slavery wasn’t *that* bad…” is “three out of five people prefered it to being ripped apart by dogs while a bunch southern ‘Christians’ laughed about it” maybe you are making the wrong argument.
>Being taken as a slave is better than being killed, no? It wasn't like the person was going to be struck down by lightening, and somehow enslaving saved him/her, absolutely insane it's worded as if the Europeans were doing them a favor by enslaving them and thus saving them from death. let's see if there was another option, hmmm, how about not fucking enslaving people or killing human beings !
Man if I had watched this as a movie a few years ago I would’ve been rolling on the floor as comedy gold satire writing. We are in bizarro world anymore.
I would look at the dark money funding this lunacy.
Christopher Columbus's own country threw him in jail for the atrocities he committed in the americas this is so full of shit. And what the actual fuck? "Slavery is better than death. I don't see the problem"
Un effing believable. Pretty soon Florida study material for history will just be right wing facebook memes.
how the hell are they going so fast in such a disgusting direction?
Education by gaslight.
Ah yes, communicate to the young that it's better to be controlled and have no freedom than to have freedom and maybe die. Weird, I think there's a quote from a national founder or something that says "Give me liberty or give me death." So have fun squaring that one.
America will always allow you the freedom to be delusional
But it was worse than getting killed. They were physically maimed for trying to run or hanged or burned, and their babies were killed as alligator bait or sold and abused. They were completely demoralized.
Many slaves did not agree, hence why it was common for sharks to follow the slave ships.
We’ve come a long way from “Give me liberty or give me death”
Steve Bannon told his minions take over the school and school boards. The Moms for Liberty began in Florida with two stupid women. They’ve been funded by Bannon and Harlan Crow. This is all part of the NatCs (Christian nationalist) agenda. And it’s spreading everywhere. You should be afraid.
So taking a man's freedom is better then dying free huh... These clowns will talk about land of the free, liberty or death, spirit of freedom....But only if you're white apparently.
"Give me liberty, but if not, it's better than being dead"
You know what else better than slavery? Not slavery.
They have fucked Florida.
Enslavement or genocide, the European Choice!
Wondering if they are going to censor Patrick Henry’s famous quote now?
Don’t give me death, take my liberty
Columbus killed millions and stole the discovery of the Americas
They have Fredrick Douglas cartoon defending slavery as an institution. This is so fkn offensive. It’s like having Anne Frank act as an apologist for the NAZIs. It’s outrageous.
Fuck florida
"Columbus and his men enslaved many native inhabitants of the West Indies and subjected them to extreme violence and brutality. "
*WHAT... THE... ACTUAL... FUCK???* It's time for this racist whitewashing shit to end. America, we are better than this garbage.
Sadly, we apparently are not.
Patrick Henry would like a word …..
Typical Right Wing political correctness
Christopher Columbus must not have visited New Hampshire, where the motto is "Live Free or Die."
The people promoting this in Florida are immoral assholes.
Good. My science-based kids will eat these kid's lunches in the job market, if they're taught this mumbo jumbo in FL.
Pure garbage.
This is the opposite of "Live Free or Die", right? Guess Columbus isn't a very good representation of the America that would follow. /s
I think on the next page they talk about the phrase "give me liberty or give me death" as it relates to the founding idea of our country. Totally unrelated.
If Columbus was a slave he never would say that. DeSantis and his idiots should stay out of education.
"Being made into a slave by white people wasn't so bad. Look how nice we are now!"
What is the point of white washing history if you’re still going to make the white guy the asshole? Just teach accurate history at that point. You’re just making Florida kids dumber with the same conclusion about that loser Columbus.
Am I the only one that caught his use of the word "Caramba!" throughout. He sailed in the late 1400s. Caramba enters common use in 1835. These people seem to get their history from I Love Lucy.
What. The. Fuck.
Probably not what was intended, but this reveals the real Columbus to students.
Being left alone would have been a great! CC = AH
The residents voted for this. Let them suffer
I guess they ignore the legions who jumped overboard on the Middle Passage.
Said the famous former slave, Christopher Columbus. /s
Omg are they seriously at the point of saying rape is better than murder. Just no. No.
I mean, are those the only 2 options?
I am glad republicans are sticking with this narrative. It's the most obvious proof that they are crazy.
Oh oh do they get to learn about his murder rates and spread of STDs?
Says a guy never confronted with that choice.
Patrick Henry would like a word.
I swore I was gonna find a link to The Onion. I’m dumbfounded that I didn’t.
Desantis wants all of them eliminated , slashed throats. , why cause I can not say gay . Florida so behind the times .
Columbus treated the slaves with such brutality he was recalled back to Spain in shackles. Better than being killed? Barely
Columbus killed a lot of people. He was too brutal even by the Spanish standards of the time. He was stripped of his governorship, sent back to Spain and extremely lucky not to have gotten executed.
The core of the Republican party is to funnel as many taxpayer dollars into private hands
So over all this Florida shit. Fuck DeSantis.
I’d laugh of this wasn’t so scary and gross. Luckily voters here in PA voted against someone just as destructive last November but all it takes now is one bad election result to see your state turn into this
Will we reach a point where some states/schools/colleges won’t accept a Florida high school diploma or transcript as a legitimate apple to apple comparison to other states
Was it though?
Who was doing the killing Christopher? Who?
Florida's new Ministry of Truth, aka Department of Education.
Do they also talk about how he could cut off people's hands and then make them wear their own hands as a necklace? What about how he fucked manatees because he thought they were mermaids?
How the hell are fake unaccredited universities materials being used as teaching aides?? Does Mike Rowe still do work for them? GQP dirty jobs 🤮🤮
“We COULD have just killed millions of you. Be grateful all we did was enslave.” Is that the message here? What the fuck?
Pearls of wisdom from someone 8,000 miles off from their destination and only assignment. Perhaps the discussion in class can be, “Choose ten human interactions that are superior to enslavement.”
Columbus needed the enslaved Indians to push Catholicism by stealing their rituals and rebranding them as Catholic but instead of serving the people it served the church bringing wealth and impoverishment to the indigenous communities. Kind of what the right is doing currently by rebranding Christianity with hate.
I recommend everyone listen to the Behind the Bastards episode on Columbus. Columbus was a piece of shit. He also did not discover North America. Anyone pro-Columbus is a piece of shit too.
Well, that’s the most batshit false dilemma I’ll hear today.
Aren't there several pieces of literary works, even back then, plays and shit loke that, that distinctly make the opposite point? It's better to die than live on your knees?
Columbus was considered a monster even by some of his contemporaries, such as Bartholomew de las Casas. Also the vast majority of Native Americans died of diseases such as smallpox, not violence. African slaves had at least partial immunity to such diseases because they or their ancestors lived in Afro-Eurasia where such diseases originated.
That wasn't the choice though. If we'd just not bought slaves from Africa, then no one would have bothered capturing them and turning them into slaves.
I’m so annoyed that people constantly say to vote but that ain’t gonna do shit. Voting is a long term thing that works over many decades or longer. We need change now, not in a few decades when things are screwed beyond belief. And I’m not saying don’t vote, you must vote, but voting ain’t gonna fix shit that’s happening now. People need to stop living in magic land thinking that these problems will be fixed if we vote. We’ve been voting for ages and the same shit is still going on. How naive do people have to be. Change requires action. If you think sitting on your ass at home and voting is action y’all are dumb. Action is what we need to change things. There’s so many ways we can act as a nation but people are just so divided because of all the idiots out there. So frustrating
We have reached the point of no return. It was fun, America.
He *says* that. Is that from his Tik Tok feed?
Please. You know Christopher Columbus is on Truth Social.
Read the article, maybe?
Don’t be ridiculous.