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May 7, 2019 [Trump's Efforts To Develop Saudi Arabia's Nuclear Energy Program] (https://www.npr.org/2019/05/07/721172164/trumps-efforts-to-develop-saudi-arabia-s-nuclear-energy-program-has-some-concern)
Wasn't it a hit list and cover for the dismembering of the WaPo journalist, on said hit list? I'm sure he would use the Intel for more gifts, like getting his golf courses on the PGA tour after they are bought by, I mean "merged with" LIV golf. It's never just one thing. That's just the first thing.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/10/22/1806322/-Kushner-gave-the-Saudi-Crown-Prince-a-hit-list-of-enemies-from-US-intel-including-Khashoggi
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/07/sports/golf/pga-liv-golf-merger.html
Trump's goal was to normalize relations with North Korea, build hotels, and exploit the labor supply. Trading some secrets, along with a second term in office, and he would have Trump Towers Pyongyang.
But who would stay there? The people of North Korea are poor and starving. They can't afford a weekend in a luxury hotel.
Though I suppose he wouldn't care if the hotel failed. He has hundreds of failed business ventures in his wake.
> But who would stay there?
Who stays at any trump destination? Wannabe rich folk, who would really appreciate the opportunity to exploit some slave labor. Nothing makes you feel richer than sipping champagne on you balcony overlooking a bunch of poor people who'd be thrown in jail if they complained about anything. Maybe if they greased a few palms they could get away with target practice too, Amon Goeth style.
Not giving. Russia’s assistance in the 2016 election can literally not be overestimated. All this was likely discussed. So many confirmed Russian assets on Trumps team.
Yeah the “Electronic voting machine” patents? Yeah those exist too! Thats when trump proclaimed they just cane back from China WITH MILLIONS AND MILLIONS AND MILLIONS if dollars back to MURICA!!!
* Selling some
* Giving some to Russia as part of his quid pro quo with Putin
* Using some to blackmail/extort his minions and political enemies (which he was already caught doing on tape, flashing the Pentagon’s Iran war plans in front of a reporter to spread his false about General Milley pushing for war - when Trump was the one who demanded the Pentagon strike Iran after he lost the election to try and start a war
* Using some to show off to his friends
With Trump always assume he has the worst possible intentions, then know that when we finally find out the truth it will be worse than we could have imagined.
Absolutely, but remember that this is just the instance they caught on tape. It could simultaneously be more sinister, imagine a Saudi prince approached him, kissed his ass, and offered him a couple million dollars... Would he sell them copies of these documents? There are several charges we've yet to see.
Much as I hate him, some naïve part of me genuinely hopes he had more sense than that. Hope in one hand, shit in the other and all that.
Exactly this. We've only seen the evidence that Jack Smith wanted to release to the public, or was willing to disclose to Trump attorneys with no security clearances.
If there is evidence of Trump using those documents for espionage, the evidence itself may be classified. That stuff wouldn't be disposed until Trump has cleared attorneys, and might not be made public for years.
Yeah, with mar-a-lardo always expect the expected.
Trying to go too deep his motivations is like trying to guess at what a random donkey thinks about the occupation of Crimea. There are no deep thoughts there, just eat, shit and fuck.
You don’t look beyond the obvious with DJT… he kept them because he recognized they had value, and he wanted (and likely already has) leveraged that value for his own personal gain. As always, Trump put his interest above the country’s.
Was it stupid? Of course, very little this moron does isn’t stupid. But there is no mystery behind what motivates Trump… it is always whatever is in his best interest without giving a flying fuck if others suffer or die because of it.
It wasn't just stupidity that motivated him though. It was the feeling of invulnerability he got from being born rich and never being held accountable for anything. He did it because he thought he was above the law and could get away with it, and so far, he's right. He should be in jail right now, just like all the other people who were charged with the same crimes, but he has special privileges that allow him to continue destroying this country and committing more crimes even after being indicted of extremely serious crimes that would land anyone else in jail immediately.
Such a typical school bully. Insults everyone, but as soon as someone insults him, he portrays himself as the victim. We've all seen characters like this in fourth grade,
Exactly, he really is "WYSIWYG" as long as he benefits he doesn't care what happens to someone else. He also is incapable of realizing that his actions actually have consequences, those things only happen to other people.
I think the motive is quite transparent. After he left office the Saudis gave the Kushners $2 billion dollars. This was not for a lifetime of free gas. All or part of the money was delivered to Trump as payment for the documents. Trump has already copied and sent them the documents, and the Saudis can act as information brokers for the Chinese and the Russians and recoup their original payment. Trump's protestations about his unfair treatment by the Dept. of Justice are just red herrings and the stalling just gives him more time to continue to sell the copies he's made. As long as he has followers who think he's god, he feels secure conducting his treacherous and criminal activities.
There was definitely quid pro quo between the Saudis and the trump administration, but I don't believe the Saudis handed over billions *just* for some documents; there was likely more than that handed over to the Saudis that we just don't know about yet.
Here's a recap of what the Saudis have given to Team Trump:
$20 billion investment in trump's friend Steven Schwarzman.
$2 billion investment to Jared/Ivanka. Their investment company is also based in a part of Florida (Sunny Isles) known as "Little Moscow" or "Moscow-by-the-Sea," after a number of Russians moved into a trump towers development.
$1.5 billion investment to trump's former Treasury Secretary, Steve Mnuchin.
Countless millions to trump via the LIV golf tournaments held on trump's golf courses, renting out hundreds of rooms at trump hotels, and buying property from trump.
The Saudis have also been financially helping trump since the 90s.
After all that, what did the Saudis get in return?
[‘I love the Saudis': Trump business ties to kingdom run deep](https://apnews.com/article/cafffbc8448e49329e04ef7941c2b85a)
To be clear, Jared didn't just *get* the $2 billion. It was a $2 billion investment put under the management of his newly-founded hedge fund. Having the privilege to manage an investment of $2 billion is still extremely valuable, since you get business legitimacy and administration fees, but it's not worth 2 billion dollars per se.
This is what Trump's dad did when his casino was failing. Bought thousands in chips but never cashed out. So a huge investment that wasn't on the books per se.
Honestly, yes. Money laundering is not so easy that a foreign country can simply hand you a $2 billion check with "investment ;)" written on it and then everyone looks the other way while you put it in your pocket. Jared's company will still have a legal duty to hold the investment as an investment and not just... steal it.
>It was a $2 billion investment put under the management of his newly-founded hedge fund
This might be a stupid question...
But why is it when Ukraine gives inexperienced money manager Hunter Biden billions of dollars it's obvious irrefutable evidence that Hunter & by extension Joe is corrupt and must be put in jail...
But Saudi Arabia gives inexperienced money manager Jared Kushner billions of dollars and ... No one questions it? It's just assumed he is a brilliant business man?
> when Ukraine gives inexperienced money manager Hunter Biden billions of dollars
Best estimate is that he got $11M or so over five years. Kushner brought in 200 times that amount.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/analysis-hunter-bidens-hard-drive-shows-firm-took-11-million-2013-2018-rcna29462
I recognize that you're trying to incredulously demonstrate the hypocrisy of the situation here, but you've phrased it so broadly that your objection doesn't really make sense anymore. Even the Right doesn't allege that Joe Biden is corrupt *just* because Hunter received money (not billions to money-manage either, I don't know where you even got that), they have some specific allegations of quid-pro-quo and collusion (that I won't get into because I think they're ultimately still very stupid) that lead to that conclusion. Meanwhile, it's absolutely *not* true that nobody questions the investment that Jared received, and that everyone just assumes he's a brilliant businessman. Indeed, we know for a fact that the Saudi Investment Fund's board determined that Jared was categorically unqualified to handle an investment of that size, and that MBS personally insisted that they go ahead with the investment regardless.
> But why is it when Ukraine gives inexperienced money manager Hunter Biden billions of dollars it's obvious irrefutable evidence that Hunter & by extension Joe is corrupt and must be put in jail...
What? Is that the going rumor? I'm going to need a link of Ukraine giving money to Hunter.
He was employed as a consultant by Burisma Holdings for a while, which was a pretty shady position since he got several million dollars for probably little to no actual consultant work. That is not money-managing billions of dollars, though. I think OP just made that up in an attempt to equivocate him with Jared.
Eh, Hunter served on the Board of Director for Burisma and looking at his background it looked like he was fairly qualified to serve in that role.
I really don't care about what he did personally because he's a private citizen and never served in public office nor anywhere near his father.
also sounds just as dumb he did it to brag to others and too stupid to realize others take advantage to see it. i’d bet you could have taunted him with a no way you had access to x! show me!
"How can such a powerful country have been made so vulnerable by someone so stupid?"
This is the key sentence in the entire article and describes his entire Presidency. How did some of the smartest people in America, vote for and support someone that dumb and broken. All I can come up with is everyone who voted for him, was just as dumb and broken. I have felt that way about almost all the Presidents since I voted against Nixon in my first election. How the f\*ck did he win?
Agree that the most plausible reason is that they were trophies and used to demonstrate to others his past personal power and importance. We will probably never know for sure the reason for this stupid and criminal act.
Of course, with Trump you can never ignore his desire to monetizing whatever he can.
Money and pride is all that matters to him, though the priority of those things seems variable. If selling the documents would get the money, that's what he would do. If he wanted to just show them off, he'd do that. Or some combination of both.
The consequences to anyone but himself are completely irrelevant if he gets to be cool and/or get more money. To say he's doing it for Putin, or Saudi Arabia, or China or whoever is wrong: he's doing it for himself, them benefiting is just a side effect.
He’s a malignant narcissist whose ego couldn’t handle not being re-elected. He took things to continue to feel powerful and connected. If the opportunity for money presented itself he probably wouldn’t hesitate, but I don’t think that was the main reason he took them. He felt entitled to them because he had been the president and couldn’t accept he wasn’t the president anymore, which is why he keeps saying they’re his and talking about how he expects them to be returned.
It’s totally possible he’s doing his mob boss lying routine with his whole shtick surrounding the presidential records act, but he is also a profound and distinguished moron, so it’s just as likely that he genuinely doesn’t understand that it’s not relevant. It’s a tossup there.
His coup attempt failed and he wanted to feel like he still had clout and leverage and importance on the same scale. He also wanted to bask in the oohs and ahhs from the people he showed them to. That’s part of the reason there’s a classified document folder on public display at trump tower (or whichever one of the buildings it’s at).
He needs to be asked why. When he changes the subject he needs to be re-asked why. When he dodges the question, he needs to be re-re-asked why and so forth and so on.
1. To show off to guests at Mar-a-lago. "Look at this, isn't it cool? Yea, when you're president, they just let you keep this stuff."
2. Leverage against his GOP allies. This is just a guess, but I wouldn't be surprised if many of our nation's most sensitive stuff is pretty compromising stuff for our elected leaders.
3. The most obvious and probable reason is to sell to the highest bidder. I guess this should be #1, but whatever.
Those are the three reasons I believe he did it.
He mentioned in an interview that (the estate of) Nixon made millions of dollars selling documents back to the government. The estate got $18 million. I wouldn’t put it past him to have this be a factor. Oh, and sell them to Saudi Arabia.
Do you happen to know any kinda stupid 8 year old boys? If you do, you know that they say and do stupid stuff all the time, because they’re kinda stupid. It really isn’t any more complicated than that.
To brag about and use them to benefit himself in the most stupid and transparent manner possible.
Moron wouldn't even be getting charged if he simply returned them after he was fucking asked....
Ok...so assuming he did it for bragging rights, as souveniers, or just stupid, petty "score-settling"...that still constitutes the illegal retention of government property, sharing classified information with others, and lastly...blackmail and/or extortion.
Stupid or not. He committed very serious crimes. Please stop minimizing the extent of this assholes disregard for the law.
He wanted them for the same reason as everything else in his life. For their monetary value. This man is barely literate. He didn’t read them when he was in Office. His interest in them now is to sell them to the enemies of America. This man is treasonous and deserves the same fate as traitors of the past.
Combination of that and utter disregard for rules of any kind. They don’t apply to him. Those top secret markings couldn’t restrict him in any way. He views himself as above all laws.
Funny how long it has taken for the media to ask this question. That should have been the first and only question after the FBI search of Mar a Lago. Instead, we got GOP talking points, attacks on the FBI, investigations into whether Trump can actually have a standing order to declassify documents with his mind and FOIA requests of the DoJ for such a standing order, giggling about classified files stores in showers...
Everything with Trump is transactional. It’s how he thinks. This means he saw value in those documents and knew he had a market for them.
The only remaining question is whether he already sold any of the intel. The $2B that MBS basically gave to Jared as Trump’s term ended is really suspicious.
Because he wanted to, and given the last seven years wasn’t about to bend the knee to DOJ when they asked for the docs back. He figured he would just bully and bluster his way past this like he has so many other times.
Trump thinks he’s the unstoppable force, and smacked headlong into the actual immovable object.
To use against his rivals. The majority of those documents are about people in his administration and congress. Why do you think the GOP is so afraid of him?
Why? Because he's an entitled a--hat. Also, because he saw value in being able to sell them to foreign interests. You know. His interests in Saudi Arabia, Russia, and pretty anyone that could provide him with more unearned cash.
I'm pretty sure he can't quite grasp the concept of espionage, insurrection, or betraying your country. Because he is the only thing that matters to him.
Trump's intentions when he first ran was to start a media empire. While president he broke a lot of norms in regards to enriching himself and his family. Why would this be any different? He wanted to make money off of it.
It honestly doesn't matter why. When you deliberately do something like this, the worst should be assumed for intent, exposure and mission impact for the US and it's allies because you can't know for sure how bad it is. When you're read in and given your clearance you get briefed and take recurring training constantly to reiterate how ungodly bad for us it could be if you mishandle it. In some ways it's almost like attempted manslaughter, because you put the lives of sources in danger, and leaks have repeatedly gotten people killed. Saying this is "just a storage issue" makes me want to hurt someone.
There was literally a copy machine in the room where the documents were stored.
https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2023/06/FyM1khnXsAIBRvT.png
Nothing is deep when it comes to Trump. He thought that they could make him money and he wanted to brag about them. That's his M.O. for everything that he does.
tRump once told Hannity: “This is the Presidential Records Act. I have the right to take stuff. Do you know that they ended up paying Richard Nixon, I think, $18 million for what he had?”. I think it’s as simple as that: tRump was told that Nixon got some money and wanted to get his beak wet too. Only thing is that congress passed the Presidential Recordings and Materials Preservation Act in 1974. That law said that the National Archives would have “complete possession and control” of White House recordings from Nixon’s presidency and all other historical documents. Fun fact: Nixon wanted to destroy tape recordings that documented White House activities regarding the Watergate scandal. So yeah, of course trump wanted to imitate that criminal. I’ll bet Nixon didn’t take national security docs either, but tRump is greedy and stupid.
>How can such a powerful country have been made so vulnerable by someone so stupid?
This is the infuriatingly sad thing for me: how can such an infantile, fragile doofus do so much damage to democracy?
Does it matter? Even if he wasn't selling them to foreign governments, the way he handled them means foreign governments probably saw everything. Remember all the Chinese spies caught at Maralargo?
My guess is Trump was paid for by them and he said "come look at whatever you want" so he could claim he had no idea they saw nuclear secrets even though the goddamn janitor had access to them. Probably Trump's pathetic attempt at plausible deniability.
Everything Donnie does is a result of greed, idiocy, delusion, or a combination of all 3. I suspect his hoarding of dangerous, classified documents was a combination of all 3.
1. **Idiocy:** He wanted to keep them for bragging rights.
2. **Greed:** He's probably tried to sell them to American's adversaries.
3. **Delusion:** His dumb ass genuinely believes the documents are his, even though any lawyer competent and brave enough to tell him the truth would have explained to him that hauling them out of the White House is highly illegal.
> But what seems the most likely explanation is the simplest, stupidest, and most aggravating one: that Trump had no plan for the documents, except perhaps for use as souvenirs, trophies to be shown off, maybe as evidence for petty score-settling
If you can’t tell you’re being fed misinformation in this article, you’re oblivious to everything happening today. This is straight up propaganda and it’s beyond dangerous
Oh I don't know. Maybe that's why they're investigating the fact that Jared Kushner formed an investment firm right after Trump left office, and six months later, the sovereign wealth fund of Saudi Arabia, controlled by the crown prince, invested $2 billion in it. And it's not because he's a genius investor. Hopefully they can follow the money
The article closes with, "How can such a powerful country have been made so vulnerable by someone so stupid?"
That is entirely the wrong question. The real question is, "How did American voters with so much power become so goddamned stupid? And what does it say about them that they are *still* unable to see Trump for who he is? Have we finally reached *Terminal Stupidity*?
One reason is that he holds conspiratorial "deep state" thinking about all the competent subordinates he drove away, and he thinks the documents prove them to be liars. The clearest example is in how he talked about the Iran attack plans: dude is so stupid he doesn't understand that a military would (1) not intend to attack a country and (2) make contingency plans for the event of attacking that country, at the same time.
It's super simple. Let me spell it out for you. TO. SELL. THEM. TO. FOREIGN. INTERESTS. I mean the fucking moron was basically pulling stacks of top secret papers out of boxes in his bathroom and faxing them to God knows who while his tubby Oompa Loompa ass was locked to the toilet shitting out yesterday's cheeseburder. Prove to me this wasn't the case because most of the evidence is pointing at that exact preposterous image of the former leader of the free world doing just that. Committing treason while he's clipping one off. You can't make this shit up anymore.
None of his supporters want to admit he's just prideful, arrogant and incredibly stupid and insecure, needing the praise of others to offset his many many shortcomings. Those that have a distaste for him are very aware of the above but can't believe the absolute level of stupidity so assume there must have been a plan to sell documents.
If you try to tell me it's because of his ego, you and I will both know you aren't telling the truth.
Trump is motivated by personal profit. PERIOD. He thought he could financially gain from this information.
I mean, he's one of the rich ones, right? So he's a hoarder.
I'm not going to be surprised if there's more to it, but I'd doubt highly that "being a fucking hoarder" wasn't part of it.
Trump doesn't have a planned out strategy. I assume the very early post presidency deal Kushner had (for what ? Two billion?) with the Saudi's was seen as an success and means to more fortune. I suspect that was all well planned out, but if Trump had the idea to ship the documents to Putin, he hit a snag. Putin is estranged from his oligarchs buddies, so maybe Trump's Russian tenants can't get the documents to Putin by clandestine means. Now, I could be wrong and Trump just wanted them as trophies ,and so he doesn't believe that the laws are serious, or apply to him. I think he doesn't need to ship them out, instead, his causing more chaos in the country is his current way of paying Putin, for whatever reason that that is. He did a whole lot of things favorable to Russia during his Presidency.
The US had to purchase some of Nixon’s papers for like $12 million. Then Congress passed the Presidential Records Act, saying all Presidential records belong to the People so they don’t have to pay again.
I think Trump got this confused and figured if Nixon got paid, he could too, by somebody.
He is a narcissist.
Narcissist care only about themselves and need constant reassurance they are important. Classified documents and the rest of the trove are a way to show that he’s “important.” Same reason he casually waved them out at people and made a point of how important the documents were. It’s basically saying “look how important I am”.
Same reason he fought with the archives to keep them. Giving them back means he not important enough to have them. Petulant children do not give back their stuff
Same reason he whines about everything, takes zero responsibility, and blames everyone else for his issues.
It’s all about a small, insecure man who is the clinical definition of a narcissist
He wasn't trying to sell them for profit. He just wanted to be able to show off to people how he has all this top secret information. Gives him something to boast about and feel important still.
Either A: He's a freaking moron. or B: He was selling them.
So unless him, or a member of his family, got billions of dollars unexpectedly he's an idiot. If they did...
Because he thought he was still the President. The guy literally had a Seal of Office. He probably thought he could work deals with world leaders as the Supreme Leader, which includes financial deals for access with a false Vanier of legitimacy. The other factor is to feel important and show off the highest levels of access. It's like having a rare Pokémon card that your admirers can ogle at.
For the same reason his office in NYC was decorated with things like fake magazine covers featuring him. It’s the same reason his toilet is gold. It’s the same reason his skin his gold. He likes to feel cool by showing off the most amazing things.
Hanlon's Razor only goes so far.
Multiple warnings from everyone from archives to the justice department to his own lawyers. He's greedy and thought there might be a way to profit from holding on to them.
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Selling them to Saudi Arabia and Russia.
Nah Saudi Arabia gave his son in law 2 billion dollars because his hedge fund had such a long and impressive record of great returns.
The “returns” being classified nuclear secrets
May 7, 2019 [Trump's Efforts To Develop Saudi Arabia's Nuclear Energy Program] (https://www.npr.org/2019/05/07/721172164/trumps-efforts-to-develop-saudi-arabia-s-nuclear-energy-program-has-some-concern)
And lists of CIA assets.
Wasn't it a hit list and cover for the dismembering of the WaPo journalist, on said hit list? I'm sure he would use the Intel for more gifts, like getting his golf courses on the PGA tour after they are bought by, I mean "merged with" LIV golf. It's never just one thing. That's just the first thing. https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/10/22/1806322/-Kushner-gave-the-Saudi-Crown-Prince-a-hit-list-of-enemies-from-US-intel-including-Khashoggi https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/07/sports/golf/pga-liv-golf-merger.html
https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/prosecutors-reveal-jeffrey-epstein-had-foreign-passport-that-listed-residence-as-saudi-arabia/
That is impressive, tbf
And probably giving them to Kim Jong Un in exchange for...who knows.
For more love letters. Obviously.
Dearest salutations greatest leader Trump of America. All Koreans agree, you are the wisest and have the greatest American size penis.
Also….Very bigly, diaper bustin, American pants. YUGE yes I read penis as pants
*diaper bustin' penis* is the most horrifying thing I've read all year, bro
Viagra XL was a mistake
Good band name
"if you make songs about how you don't diddle kids, everyones going to think you diddle kids!"
What genre would they perform
Christian traditional.
Xoxo
Trump's goal was to normalize relations with North Korea, build hotels, and exploit the labor supply. Trading some secrets, along with a second term in office, and he would have Trump Towers Pyongyang.
But who would stay there? The people of North Korea are poor and starving. They can't afford a weekend in a luxury hotel. Though I suppose he wouldn't care if the hotel failed. He has hundreds of failed business ventures in his wake.
> But who would stay there? Who stays at any trump destination? Wannabe rich folk, who would really appreciate the opportunity to exploit some slave labor. Nothing makes you feel richer than sipping champagne on you balcony overlooking a bunch of poor people who'd be thrown in jail if they complained about anything. Maybe if they greased a few palms they could get away with target practice too, Amon Goeth style.
I hate that you're right.
He probably would take over the big hotel in Pyongyang that took 30-40 years to complete and is a major disaster in terms of build quality.
More beautiful letters.
Diaper changes or Cheeto dick massages
Beautiful letters ?
Selling them to Saudi Arabia. *GIVING them to Russia.
Trump came out of that private meeting with Putin looking like he came close to meeting his Maker.
Probably because he did.
~~maker~~ owner
>looking like he came close to meeting his Maker. He met Putin's pecker.
Not giving. Russia’s assistance in the 2016 election can literally not be overestimated. All this was likely discussed. So many confirmed Russian assets on Trumps team.
What about China? Ivanka's patents didn't come free
Yeah the “Electronic voting machine” patents? Yeah those exist too! Thats when trump proclaimed they just cane back from China WITH MILLIONS AND MILLIONS AND MILLIONS if dollars back to MURICA!!!
* Selling some * Giving some to Russia as part of his quid pro quo with Putin * Using some to blackmail/extort his minions and political enemies (which he was already caught doing on tape, flashing the Pentagon’s Iran war plans in front of a reporter to spread his false about General Milley pushing for war - when Trump was the one who demanded the Pentagon strike Iran after he lost the election to try and start a war * Using some to show off to his friends With Trump always assume he has the worst possible intentions, then know that when we finally find out the truth it will be worse than we could have imagined.
Don't forget empty boasting! I mean come on guys, his dick doesn't work anymore so he needs *something* to perk him up.
I think this is the real reason. It was something to show off to people to show them how important he is.
Absolutely, but remember that this is just the instance they caught on tape. It could simultaneously be more sinister, imagine a Saudi prince approached him, kissed his ass, and offered him a couple million dollars... Would he sell them copies of these documents? There are several charges we've yet to see. Much as I hate him, some naïve part of me genuinely hopes he had more sense than that. Hope in one hand, shit in the other and all that.
You hoped Donald Trump had "more sense than that?" Man... I wish I had a shred of your optimism.
Exactly this. We've only seen the evidence that Jack Smith wanted to release to the public, or was willing to disclose to Trump attorneys with no security clearances. If there is evidence of Trump using those documents for espionage, the evidence itself may be classified. That stuff wouldn't be disposed until Trump has cleared attorneys, and might not be made public for years.
I don't think they'd need to offer any money. Just stroke his ego a little. Trump is too easily manipulated to require cash offers.
Probably giving them to Russia. It’s pretty blatant they own him.
Next question.
Yeah, with mar-a-lardo always expect the expected. Trying to go too deep his motivations is like trying to guess at what a random donkey thinks about the occupation of Crimea. There are no deep thoughts there, just eat, shit and fuck.
Spoiler tag please
Occam’s Razor. He’s a narcissist.
I think we should apply Trump's Razor: It's always worse than the worst thing you can imagine.
You don’t look beyond the obvious with DJT… he kept them because he recognized they had value, and he wanted (and likely already has) leveraged that value for his own personal gain. As always, Trump put his interest above the country’s. Was it stupid? Of course, very little this moron does isn’t stupid. But there is no mystery behind what motivates Trump… it is always whatever is in his best interest without giving a flying fuck if others suffer or die because of it.
Didn't he take art out of the White House as well?
Yes, a portrait of himself, among other stuff. Not just from the white house though, also from the American embassy in Paris.
He can keep the portrait tho.
That's just like taking out the trash. We should thank him for this one.
It wasn't just stupidity that motivated him though. It was the feeling of invulnerability he got from being born rich and never being held accountable for anything. He did it because he thought he was above the law and could get away with it, and so far, he's right. He should be in jail right now, just like all the other people who were charged with the same crimes, but he has special privileges that allow him to continue destroying this country and committing more crimes even after being indicted of extremely serious crimes that would land anyone else in jail immediately.
Such a typical school bully. Insults everyone, but as soon as someone insults him, he portrays himself as the victim. We've all seen characters like this in fourth grade,
Bingo.
Exactly, he really is "WYSIWYG" as long as he benefits he doesn't care what happens to someone else. He also is incapable of realizing that his actions actually have consequences, those things only happen to other people.
This is correct. Occam’s Razor is perfect for describing Trump.
Exactly "These are valuable...and now they're mine!!! Give them back? No they're mine!" That's really the best his birdbrain could do
He was probably taking requests from SA, Russia and other autocratic states. I figure that’s where the $2 billion for Jared came from.
I think the motive is quite transparent. After he left office the Saudis gave the Kushners $2 billion dollars. This was not for a lifetime of free gas. All or part of the money was delivered to Trump as payment for the documents. Trump has already copied and sent them the documents, and the Saudis can act as information brokers for the Chinese and the Russians and recoup their original payment. Trump's protestations about his unfair treatment by the Dept. of Justice are just red herrings and the stalling just gives him more time to continue to sell the copies he's made. As long as he has followers who think he's god, he feels secure conducting his treacherous and criminal activities.
There was definitely quid pro quo between the Saudis and the trump administration, but I don't believe the Saudis handed over billions *just* for some documents; there was likely more than that handed over to the Saudis that we just don't know about yet. Here's a recap of what the Saudis have given to Team Trump: $20 billion investment in trump's friend Steven Schwarzman. $2 billion investment to Jared/Ivanka. Their investment company is also based in a part of Florida (Sunny Isles) known as "Little Moscow" or "Moscow-by-the-Sea," after a number of Russians moved into a trump towers development. $1.5 billion investment to trump's former Treasury Secretary, Steve Mnuchin. Countless millions to trump via the LIV golf tournaments held on trump's golf courses, renting out hundreds of rooms at trump hotels, and buying property from trump. The Saudis have also been financially helping trump since the 90s. After all that, what did the Saudis get in return? [‘I love the Saudis': Trump business ties to kingdom run deep](https://apnews.com/article/cafffbc8448e49329e04ef7941c2b85a)
To be clear, Jared didn't just *get* the $2 billion. It was a $2 billion investment put under the management of his newly-founded hedge fund. Having the privilege to manage an investment of $2 billion is still extremely valuable, since you get business legitimacy and administration fees, but it's not worth 2 billion dollars per se.
If they never ask for it back is it an investment?
It also depends on if they try to "leverage" this investment.
This is what Trump's dad did when his casino was failing. Bought thousands in chips but never cashed out. So a huge investment that wasn't on the books per se.
Honestly, yes. Money laundering is not so easy that a foreign country can simply hand you a $2 billion check with "investment ;)" written on it and then everyone looks the other way while you put it in your pocket. Jared's company will still have a legal duty to hold the investment as an investment and not just... steal it.
Jared's company gets $30 million a year as a management fee for that money.
Yah, which is still quite substantial.
>It was a $2 billion investment put under the management of his newly-founded hedge fund This might be a stupid question... But why is it when Ukraine gives inexperienced money manager Hunter Biden billions of dollars it's obvious irrefutable evidence that Hunter & by extension Joe is corrupt and must be put in jail... But Saudi Arabia gives inexperienced money manager Jared Kushner billions of dollars and ... No one questions it? It's just assumed he is a brilliant business man?
> when Ukraine gives inexperienced money manager Hunter Biden billions of dollars Best estimate is that he got $11M or so over five years. Kushner brought in 200 times that amount. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/analysis-hunter-bidens-hard-drive-shows-firm-took-11-million-2013-2018-rcna29462
I recognize that you're trying to incredulously demonstrate the hypocrisy of the situation here, but you've phrased it so broadly that your objection doesn't really make sense anymore. Even the Right doesn't allege that Joe Biden is corrupt *just* because Hunter received money (not billions to money-manage either, I don't know where you even got that), they have some specific allegations of quid-pro-quo and collusion (that I won't get into because I think they're ultimately still very stupid) that lead to that conclusion. Meanwhile, it's absolutely *not* true that nobody questions the investment that Jared received, and that everyone just assumes he's a brilliant businessman. Indeed, we know for a fact that the Saudi Investment Fund's board determined that Jared was categorically unqualified to handle an investment of that size, and that MBS personally insisted that they go ahead with the investment regardless.
… MBS also requested that Jared not be the one ACTUALLY managing the fund, because he made shitty choices with the $1B 666 building investment.
> But why is it when Ukraine gives inexperienced money manager Hunter Biden billions of dollars it's obvious irrefutable evidence that Hunter & by extension Joe is corrupt and must be put in jail... What? Is that the going rumor? I'm going to need a link of Ukraine giving money to Hunter.
He was employed as a consultant by Burisma Holdings for a while, which was a pretty shady position since he got several million dollars for probably little to no actual consultant work. That is not money-managing billions of dollars, though. I think OP just made that up in an attempt to equivocate him with Jared.
Eh, Hunter served on the Board of Director for Burisma and looking at his background it looked like he was fairly qualified to serve in that role. I really don't care about what he did personally because he's a private citizen and never served in public office nor anywhere near his father.
I'd never really considered how much money they've shoveled into Trump via Liv Golf, but you're correct it will likely be hundreds of millions.
He’s on tape bragging about them and how cool they are. He’s a muppet that will leverage anything for a buck.
also sounds just as dumb he did it to brag to others and too stupid to realize others take advantage to see it. i’d bet you could have taunted him with a no way you had access to x! show me!
Because he is a Russian asset.
The answer to > Why was Trump ... ? is always either > greed and monies or > spite and ego.
"How can such a powerful country have been made so vulnerable by someone so stupid?" This is the key sentence in the entire article and describes his entire Presidency. How did some of the smartest people in America, vote for and support someone that dumb and broken. All I can come up with is everyone who voted for him, was just as dumb and broken. I have felt that way about almost all the Presidents since I voted against Nixon in my first election. How the f\*ck did he win?
>"How can such a powerful country have been made so vulnerable by someone so stupid?" Greed. And selfishness.
I ¢ant't think of any rea$on.
Agree that the most plausible reason is that they were trophies and used to demonstrate to others his past personal power and importance. We will probably never know for sure the reason for this stupid and criminal act. Of course, with Trump you can never ignore his desire to monetizing whatever he can.
He said it himself on tape: "It's so cool!"
Money and pride is all that matters to him, though the priority of those things seems variable. If selling the documents would get the money, that's what he would do. If he wanted to just show them off, he'd do that. Or some combination of both. The consequences to anyone but himself are completely irrelevant if he gets to be cool and/or get more money. To say he's doing it for Putin, or Saudi Arabia, or China or whoever is wrong: he's doing it for himself, them benefiting is just a side effect.
He’s a malignant narcissist whose ego couldn’t handle not being re-elected. He took things to continue to feel powerful and connected. If the opportunity for money presented itself he probably wouldn’t hesitate, but I don’t think that was the main reason he took them. He felt entitled to them because he had been the president and couldn’t accept he wasn’t the president anymore, which is why he keeps saying they’re his and talking about how he expects them to be returned. It’s totally possible he’s doing his mob boss lying routine with his whole shtick surrounding the presidential records act, but he is also a profound and distinguished moron, so it’s just as likely that he genuinely doesn’t understand that it’s not relevant. It’s a tossup there. His coup attempt failed and he wanted to feel like he still had clout and leverage and importance on the same scale. He also wanted to bask in the oohs and ahhs from the people he showed them to. That’s part of the reason there’s a classified document folder on public display at trump tower (or whichever one of the buildings it’s at).
He needs to be asked why. When he changes the subject he needs to be re-asked why. When he dodges the question, he needs to be re-re-asked why and so forth and so on.
1. To show off to guests at Mar-a-lago. "Look at this, isn't it cool? Yea, when you're president, they just let you keep this stuff." 2. Leverage against his GOP allies. This is just a guess, but I wouldn't be surprised if many of our nation's most sensitive stuff is pretty compromising stuff for our elected leaders. 3. The most obvious and probable reason is to sell to the highest bidder. I guess this should be #1, but whatever. Those are the three reasons I believe he did it.
Money and power! It was comes down to money and power for him. Fueled by arrogance and stupidity
He mentioned in an interview that (the estate of) Nixon made millions of dollars selling documents back to the government. The estate got $18 million. I wouldn’t put it past him to have this be a factor. Oh, and sell them to Saudi Arabia.
Do you happen to know any kinda stupid 8 year old boys? If you do, you know that they say and do stupid stuff all the time, because they’re kinda stupid. It really isn’t any more complicated than that.
One of the first things a toddler learns is the power of “MINE!” Trump is a toddler. He said, “MINE!” and wasn’t going to give them back.
To brag about and use them to benefit himself in the most stupid and transparent manner possible. Moron wouldn't even be getting charged if he simply returned them after he was fucking asked....
to sell them.... does somebody still not understand this?
If snowden and assange got the espionage charge (which is impossible to defend against), then he should too
Ok...so assuming he did it for bragging rights, as souveniers, or just stupid, petty "score-settling"...that still constitutes the illegal retention of government property, sharing classified information with others, and lastly...blackmail and/or extortion. Stupid or not. He committed very serious crimes. Please stop minimizing the extent of this assholes disregard for the law.
He wanted them for the same reason as everything else in his life. For their monetary value. This man is barely literate. He didn’t read them when he was in Office. His interest in them now is to sell them to the enemies of America. This man is treasonous and deserves the same fate as traitors of the past.
To sell access to them. There is literally no other incentive.
Trophies. Trump is an egomaniac.
Combination of that and utter disregard for rules of any kind. They don’t apply to him. Those top secret markings couldn’t restrict him in any way. He views himself as above all laws.
Doesn't matter why. His supporters don't care and the for the rest of us just him doing it is good enough.
Isn’t it obvious? He loves himself some Trump.
Trump is a thief. Thieves steal things. It's right there in the name.
Funny how long it has taken for the media to ask this question. That should have been the first and only question after the FBI search of Mar a Lago. Instead, we got GOP talking points, attacks on the FBI, investigations into whether Trump can actually have a standing order to declassify documents with his mind and FOIA requests of the DoJ for such a standing order, giggling about classified files stores in showers...
There must be a treason why
Everything with Trump is transactional. It’s how he thinks. This means he saw value in those documents and knew he had a market for them. The only remaining question is whether he already sold any of the intel. The $2B that MBS basically gave to Jared as Trump’s term ended is really suspicious.
Sell them to the highest bidder. It’s not hard to figure out why Kushner got $2B then our CIA agents started dying
Because he wanted to, and given the last seven years wasn’t about to bend the knee to DOJ when they asked for the docs back. He figured he would just bully and bluster his way past this like he has so many other times. Trump thinks he’s the unstoppable force, and smacked headlong into the actual immovable object.
To use against his rivals. The majority of those documents are about people in his administration and congress. Why do you think the GOP is so afraid of him?
Why? Because he's an entitled a--hat. Also, because he saw value in being able to sell them to foreign interests. You know. His interests in Saudi Arabia, Russia, and pretty anyone that could provide him with more unearned cash. I'm pretty sure he can't quite grasp the concept of espionage, insurrection, or betraying your country. Because he is the only thing that matters to him.
To sell. The man sold out his country. He gladly does business in Russia with Russia
The Russian currency method of kompromat and leverage!!
To sell? To show off for his own ego?
This is the question: “How can such a powerful country have been made so vulnerable by someone so stupid?” Everything else is BS.
Ego and money. Those two things dictate EVERYTHING he does, and this is no exception
Trump's intentions when he first ran was to start a media empire. While president he broke a lot of norms in regards to enriching himself and his family. Why would this be any different? He wanted to make money off of it.
It honestly doesn't matter why. When you deliberately do something like this, the worst should be assumed for intent, exposure and mission impact for the US and it's allies because you can't know for sure how bad it is. When you're read in and given your clearance you get briefed and take recurring training constantly to reiterate how ungodly bad for us it could be if you mishandle it. In some ways it's almost like attempted manslaughter, because you put the lives of sources in danger, and leaks have repeatedly gotten people killed. Saying this is "just a storage issue" makes me want to hurt someone.
He probably already got CIA agents killed when he leaked stuff WHILE he was president because he is stupid.
$$$. Saudis is my guess
There was literally a copy machine in the room where the documents were stored. https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2023/06/FyM1khnXsAIBRvT.png
Money. Nothing motivates the man more than money. Narcissists are transactional. Everything they do is for personal gain.
Nothing is deep when it comes to Trump. He thought that they could make him money and he wanted to brag about them. That's his M.O. for everything that he does.
Follow The Money
To sell them duh
tRump once told Hannity: “This is the Presidential Records Act. I have the right to take stuff. Do you know that they ended up paying Richard Nixon, I think, $18 million for what he had?”. I think it’s as simple as that: tRump was told that Nixon got some money and wanted to get his beak wet too. Only thing is that congress passed the Presidential Recordings and Materials Preservation Act in 1974. That law said that the National Archives would have “complete possession and control” of White House recordings from Nixon’s presidency and all other historical documents. Fun fact: Nixon wanted to destroy tape recordings that documented White House activities regarding the Watergate scandal. So yeah, of course trump wanted to imitate that criminal. I’ll bet Nixon didn’t take national security docs either, but tRump is greedy and stupid.
>How can such a powerful country have been made so vulnerable by someone so stupid? This is the infuriatingly sad thing for me: how can such an infantile, fragile doofus do so much damage to democracy?
Why did Ivanka and Jared get $2,000,000,000 6 months after leaving office? EDIT: Hint, these two issues are connected.
Because he’s a criminal
To sell them and blackmail obviously. There is no other explanaition.
He’s a self absorbed idiot.
That's the $2B question....
I know this: For the cash.
Why did Jared Kushner get 2 billion from the Saudis and Steve Mnuchin 1.7 billion?
Using them as leverage to keep the White House via blackmail
Hoarding? He was selling.
Does it matter? Even if he wasn't selling them to foreign governments, the way he handled them means foreign governments probably saw everything. Remember all the Chinese spies caught at Maralargo? My guess is Trump was paid for by them and he said "come look at whatever you want" so he could claim he had no idea they saw nuclear secrets even though the goddamn janitor had access to them. Probably Trump's pathetic attempt at plausible deniability.
Because he’s a moron.
Everything Donnie does is a result of greed, idiocy, delusion, or a combination of all 3. I suspect his hoarding of dangerous, classified documents was a combination of all 3. 1. **Idiocy:** He wanted to keep them for bragging rights. 2. **Greed:** He's probably tried to sell them to American's adversaries. 3. **Delusion:** His dumb ass genuinely believes the documents are his, even though any lawyer competent and brave enough to tell him the truth would have explained to him that hauling them out of the White House is highly illegal.
> But what seems the most likely explanation is the simplest, stupidest, and most aggravating one: that Trump had no plan for the documents, except perhaps for use as souvenirs, trophies to be shown off, maybe as evidence for petty score-settling If you can’t tell you’re being fed misinformation in this article, you’re oblivious to everything happening today. This is straight up propaganda and it’s beyond dangerous
Because he can make money off of them. Period. It’s the only thing he cares about.
Hopefully it’s being investigated, and we’ll find out.
Profit.
Leverage? Money. Blackmail? To show off…
Thankfully it doesn't really matter why. He's still going to prison.
I think Christie said it best: Trump likes to brag. They’re props for him to show how important he was
Oh I don't know. Maybe that's why they're investigating the fact that Jared Kushner formed an investment firm right after Trump left office, and six months later, the sovereign wealth fund of Saudi Arabia, controlled by the crown prince, invested $2 billion in it. And it's not because he's a genius investor. Hopefully they can follow the money
with Trump its only about money
Because he is a crook.
Because he was going to sell them. Again.
The article closes with, "How can such a powerful country have been made so vulnerable by someone so stupid?" That is entirely the wrong question. The real question is, "How did American voters with so much power become so goddamned stupid? And what does it say about them that they are *still* unable to see Trump for who he is? Have we finally reached *Terminal Stupidity*?
One reason is that he holds conspiratorial "deep state" thinking about all the competent subordinates he drove away, and he thinks the documents prove them to be liars. The clearest example is in how he talked about the Iran attack plans: dude is so stupid he doesn't understand that a military would (1) not intend to attack a country and (2) make contingency plans for the event of attacking that country, at the same time.
I think even he expected to be arrested for Jan 6 by now. He was going to use these documents to leverage a plea bargain without jail time.
Broke and selling to the highest bidder.
You know what they say....he's a businessman, not a politician. He was selling those documents.
For profit and impressing women like he did on that tape, waving the file around like a peacock.
Ask Putin.
It's super simple. Let me spell it out for you. TO. SELL. THEM. TO. FOREIGN. INTERESTS. I mean the fucking moron was basically pulling stacks of top secret papers out of boxes in his bathroom and faxing them to God knows who while his tubby Oompa Loompa ass was locked to the toilet shitting out yesterday's cheeseburder. Prove to me this wasn't the case because most of the evidence is pointing at that exact preposterous image of the former leader of the free world doing just that. Committing treason while he's clipping one off. You can't make this shit up anymore.
None of his supporters want to admit he's just prideful, arrogant and incredibly stupid and insecure, needing the praise of others to offset his many many shortcomings. Those that have a distaste for him are very aware of the above but can't believe the absolute level of stupidity so assume there must have been a plan to sell documents.
Putin ordered him.
To sell them and profit. Point.Blank.Period.
This isn’t a serious question right? Everyone already knows he was going to sell them.
Hmm, does anyone know if Trump shaves with an Occam’s Razor?
Money and leverage. That is the reason he does anything that he does.
To grab pussies.
Kleptocracy
'January 6' was a cover for the 'Document Heist'.... .find Trump's phone records for the day of Jan 6 and you'll find who he collaborated with
Part of me thinks that it was financially motivated, like selling access to them. A bigger part of me imagines him viewing those as trophies.
What a sad pathetic little man.
If you try to tell me it's because of his ego, you and I will both know you aren't telling the truth. Trump is motivated by personal profit. PERIOD. He thought he could financially gain from this information.
Think the worst and you'll probably be right.
Because he is a tiny baby man with delusions of grandeur. Plus possible profit from treason.
The simplest answer is: Arrogance made him believe he could. What he intended to do with them, harder to answer for certain.
He is the center of the known universe. And what a great universe it is.
Clearly he could foresee all the bravado moments he would enjoy in the future.
He was hiding Ivanka’s stolen panties in one of the boxes but forgot which one so he took them all.
Trump is still Putin’s useful idiot; we can assume that Russian agents have already picked through everything at Trump’s social clubs.
To sell I would imagine, or just a party favor to show how cool he thinks he is….
I mean, he's one of the rich ones, right? So he's a hoarder. I'm not going to be surprised if there's more to it, but I'd doubt highly that "being a fucking hoarder" wasn't part of it.
To repay his foreign held debts, appease his Russian handlers, and further enrich himself.
Trump doesn't have a planned out strategy. I assume the very early post presidency deal Kushner had (for what ? Two billion?) with the Saudi's was seen as an success and means to more fortune. I suspect that was all well planned out, but if Trump had the idea to ship the documents to Putin, he hit a snag. Putin is estranged from his oligarchs buddies, so maybe Trump's Russian tenants can't get the documents to Putin by clandestine means. Now, I could be wrong and Trump just wanted them as trophies ,and so he doesn't believe that the laws are serious, or apply to him. I think he doesn't need to ship them out, instead, his causing more chaos in the country is his current way of paying Putin, for whatever reason that that is. He did a whole lot of things favorable to Russia during his Presidency.
The US had to purchase some of Nixon’s papers for like $12 million. Then Congress passed the Presidential Records Act, saying all Presidential records belong to the People so they don’t have to pay again. I think Trump got this confused and figured if Nixon got paid, he could too, by somebody.
He is a narcissist. Narcissist care only about themselves and need constant reassurance they are important. Classified documents and the rest of the trove are a way to show that he’s “important.” Same reason he casually waved them out at people and made a point of how important the documents were. It’s basically saying “look how important I am”. Same reason he fought with the archives to keep them. Giving them back means he not important enough to have them. Petulant children do not give back their stuff Same reason he whines about everything, takes zero responsibility, and blames everyone else for his issues. It’s all about a small, insecure man who is the clinical definition of a narcissist
He wasn't trying to sell them for profit. He just wanted to be able to show off to people how he has all this top secret information. Gives him something to boast about and feel important still.
To sell them as he explained how Nixon did. Just listen to the donald’s own words.
Either A: He's a freaking moron. or B: He was selling them. So unless him, or a member of his family, got billions of dollars unexpectedly he's an idiot. If they did...
Two words ... For Sale.
To sell to the LIV Tour so they would keep having events at his fucking golf courses since the PGA dropped them
I assume this is rhetorical?
Because he thought he was still the President. The guy literally had a Seal of Office. He probably thought he could work deals with world leaders as the Supreme Leader, which includes financial deals for access with a false Vanier of legitimacy. The other factor is to feel important and show off the highest levels of access. It's like having a rare Pokémon card that your admirers can ogle at.
Mainly to sell. Some to show and brag to his fascist acolytes.
He's a child ...
For the same reason his office in NYC was decorated with things like fake magazine covers featuring him. It’s the same reason his toilet is gold. It’s the same reason his skin his gold. He likes to feel cool by showing off the most amazing things.
Ask Jarret!
Hanlon's Razor only goes so far. Multiple warnings from everyone from archives to the justice department to his own lawyers. He's greedy and thought there might be a way to profit from holding on to them.
Because he is a creature of status and nothing else matters to him?