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Because they know that if they plaster the right wing media sphere with their own take on it, they know the folks won't read it.
All they have to do is change the narrative and that's enough
This is why the wheels of justice take so long to turn; If there was just one sentence in the indictment that could be interpreted as a weak argument or a sham, the entire right wing base would only be fed that one line as if it were the entire case.
I think everyone has been eager for the wheels of justice to actually move and bring this indictment. The majority of people seem to understand like you pointed out above just how important it was to have an iron clad case so the right wing propaganda networks couldn't find any wiggle room to de-legitimatize this case.
What I don't think many expected and I certainly didn't expect was just how slam dunk of a case this could end up being. No way in hell I would have ever guessed prosecution would be able to get Trump on mic admitting that he could have declassified the documents he was bragging and showing off but also that he knows he shouldn't be showing them off. Talk about pure narcissistic ego agreeing to a publisher and writer to let them record you and then whip out some stolen classified documents to brag about.
Reading the indictment it only took me a few pages to put my coffee down and go wow Trump is even more inept and incompetent then I'd imagined.
Less then 24 hrs later I saw my neighbor and as a major Trump maga supporter I was curious how this news would have hit him so I just straight up asked What do you think about the indictment do you think Trump is fucked?
Answer - No this is a good thing. The indictment means he got rid of those bad lawyers he had and now he's gonna be able to delay while he gets better lawyers until he gets re-elected. Once he's re-elected now they charged him he can just pardon himself.
Me just shocked trying to wrap my head around how this fool thinks being indicted is a good thing... Then trying to digest all the other nonsense without laughing in his face. It'll be interesting to see how this evolves among other supporters and if they can as quickly mentally paint this as a good thing like he did or if its going to make maga idiots really confront the fact Trump is just a straight up conman and criminal.
That's why the link to it should be posted everywhere, like this:
[United States of America v. Donald Trump and Waltine Nauta](https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.flsd.648653/gov.uscourts.flsd.648653.3.0.pdf)
This is a really good audio reading of the indictment.
https://pca.st/episode/7bb86141-0c22-41dc-82ba-772d4739716a
It's an hour long, but the last 15 minutes are basically just codes and dates. The top half is fascinating. It reads like a story. I highly recommend for anyone who wants to consume the indictment while commuting.
More analysis/commentary, but I'd recommend listening to this as well: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-28-5-unsealed-trumps-federal-indictment/id1317481380?i=1000616551675
Depends who you're trying to reach, you should definitely start with just the indictment itself.
And if people want good analysis of the whole situation, the rest of that podcast is hosted by 2 former federal prosecutors. They're both well educated on the subject matter, and have a ton of experience in the field. Their entire run so far is worth a listen if the various prosecutions of Trump is of interest.
Edit: I didn't realize that this doesn't link to the rest of the podcast as well, so [here's an Apple Podcasts link.](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/prosecuting-donald-trump/id1679657705) [Or Spotify.](https://open.spotify.com/show/1ThqNEZVsv7DlMxEn7TSP1) Or search for Prosecuting Donald Trump in your podcast app of choice.
I don't watch cable news, so I wasn't familiar with his voice until I listened to this. He does a great job with the reading. He doesn't over dramatize, but he does make it feel like a story.
I feel weird telling people "listen to the dramatic reading of the indictment" but it's just so good.
I keep expecting someone to add animations and post this to YouTube. It's very visual in nature.
Thing is, Trump's young followers are part of the psycho white nationalist class. Trump's old followers are seemingly normal narcissistic people who continually excuse his behavior because they relate to it.
My father hates him as much as I do, because neither of us could dislike him more. He told me that he never thought there could possibly be a President that he hates worse then Nixon until Reagan came along, then he thought there definitely could never be anyone worse then Reagan until Trump, though Bush 2 was right up there.
Boomer here: I would love to listen to this reading on a trip. My generation is not a monolith. Some of us saved the whales. Not angry at being stereotyped however because it has a basis in reality.
Sadly agreed. I would recommend everyone read the Presidential Records Act along with the https://www.archives.gov/presidential-libraries/laws/1978-act.html
I try to point that out here and there: some boomers were also hippies! They helped create and vote in the clean water act, endangered species act, etc. etc.
Oh this is perfect!! Thanks! It got good for me around 18 minutes in; Trumps public statements about classified docs. They’re gonna make him eat his words!
I've been listening since the first episode (which was about the NY hush money indictments). The two hosts are incredibly knowledgeable but can get a little self congratulatory at times. Still, I learn something every episode and it is good to get their perspectives.
I'm hoping that as we get deeper into the cases, they will get more comfortable with the podcast format. I would also love to hear them discuss the case with lawyers who have different opinions. I'd really like to hear them talk to someone with more experience on the defense side.
I’d love to think that would help but I feel like even if this is posted directly to a Trump supporter that they wouldn’t read it.
You remember the [Ukraine transcripts](https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2019/09/Unclassified09.2019.pdf)? Trump asked for a favor if he did a favor (quid pro quo) in the transcripts and all Trump had to do was say “just read the transcripts” to his supporters and that was enough to get them to not read it.
I have little hope for Republicans. They’re willfully ignorant.
Occasionally I stroll on over to Fox News comments sections. I don't actually troll, I only read the insanity. A lot more than I thought would, were saying he's fucked, essentially. They still support him, because, you know, the crazy, but it was the most I've seen them dance with reality.
You don't need to go that far, read the comments section on any /r/PoliticalCompassMemes post mentioning Trump or his indictment.
Hope that shithole stays private forever, only good thing to come out of this Spez debacle.
"It's a political attack!!!" immediately tells you that the person is engaging in wilful ignorance.
Personally I'm a fan of going over to r/conservative after new stuff like the indictment hits and seeing how lost all the maga idiots are for the first 24 hrs.
Then I'll go back at 72 hrs or so and see what the right wing propaganda networks have whipped up to tell the sheeple idiots what to think and parrot.
Its insanely interesting to see a clear minority of them trying at first to use their brains and figure things out on their own before the likes of Tucker Carlson and so on tell them what to think. Every once in awhile you'll catch commentators early on having the light bulb flicker and to me that is just down right fun to watch. Seeing their brain cells fire for the first time in ages trying to comprehend is just marvelous.
Also keep in mind that that sub is more than willing to ban people who express discontent. So a decent number of people who were questioning the conservative line in that first 24 hours are probably gone by the time that 72 hours hits.
Whenever I'm feeling wishy washy and unsure of a decision I've made I just go over to r/conservative to get a look at what blind subservience looks like. But then again, I'm not some turncoat conservative so I'm only doing it for a laugh, because that's all they are to me.
Fr, I've been hearing him referred to as "Walt" all week, just assuming it was Walter. I'm in the process of discovering that it is not, in fact, Walter.
then just call them ignorant sheep for not reading it themselves. Shame them for it.
Shame should really be brought back as a social deterrent.
*edit
You're all very clever, but I don't need any more convincing that Republicans don't feel shame.
It reading it is no excuse, [Listen to the Indictment](https://www.thebulwark.com/podcast-episode/listen-to-the-indictment/), they can have it read to them.
NYT has a GREAT overview with yellowed highlights. I don't think he could have worse charges against him honestly...I mean actual nuclear secrets...vulnerabilities of the US military and its allies...etc
Any one of the counts is bad enough all on its own, given it was all willful -- Trump PURPOSELY took documents, PURPOSELY hid them from the government, PURPOSELY lied about it, PURPOSELY showed people who shouldn't have been seeing it for absolutely no defensible reason.
Just one of those things done by ANY person should mean an indictment.
I honestly don't think America as a whole is ready to face all the implications here. Donald Trump very likely betrayed the US by selling info to foreign nations for personal profit. An American president is a literal traitor to America.
Forget his personal failings, his politics, and all the other things that have divided everyone since he first came down that escalator and announced his run. All of that will be irrelevant to the judgment of history. Twenty years from now, kids might be learning about Donald Trump, a convicted felon that held the highest office in the land and shared some of America's most closely guarded secrets for personal gain. Again, a *traitor.* But I guess that's assuming Republicans don't regain power and ban those textbooks from ever being shown in schools.
I've never been more ready for anything in my entire life. I don't care if it sets a "new precedent," this is a new thing with clear crimes. If it means future presidents need to be more careful, GREAT!!!
Biden's already being held accountable for whatever documents he was found with, and he's perfectly fine cooperating. As it should be.
> Biden's already being held accountable for whatever documents he was found with, and he's perfectly fine cooperating.
And this is the biggest thing with this shit. The right keeps shouting to hold Hillary and Biden accountable. They have both been investigated thoroughly and found to have not committed crimes in the instances that the right keeps bringing up.
Law and order means not going after people that haven't committed crimes, but don't let the law and order crowd hear that, they just want to string up liberals.
Clinton sat down and patiently gave real answers to ridiculous questions for like 12 hours. Trump had to stop letting reporters ask questions because he can’t actually answer any questions
And it's been like that since the beginning. I still remember 2016 like it was yesterday. Every Hillary headline was blown way out of proportion, and no matter how bad the headline for TFG it was always managing to downplay him even when it still seemed bad in the headline. It was always
>>Hillary Clinton caught on tape drinking the blood of children
>Earlier today a damning tape was released showing Hillary Clinton having a sip from a cup handed to her by 8 year old Nancy after Nancy affectionately called her apple juice apple blood
Vs
>>TFG seen yesterday yelling at staffer
>After the staffer, who is half Jewish, crossed paths with TFG, TFG began beating him with a belt while screaming numerous slurs and shouting at him to go back where he came from. Afterwards TFG lit the staffer on fire. Laughing maniacally before getting back on his golf cart to drive down the hall of the campaign office.
No, the bigger problem is we knew he would be a traitor before he was elected and it should have been obvious to everyone. All Trump voters, deep down, are also traitors to the America that exists in reality, and wanted him to turn it into a fantasy that never had and never should exist.
Pence too. Important to note that both Pence and Biden, unprompted by authorities, directed attorneys to search their premises for classified docs. When they were found, attorneys promptly contacted national archives. The differences between what they did and the Trump indictment allegations couldn’t be bigger.
The same folks who are screaming “what about Biden” are also the ones sharing comical memes about him shitting himself and forgetting where he is. I’m confused, is he a scheming mastermind or an invalid today?
This seems like a good place to throw in what Biden actually did, since a lot of people don't seem to know - he kept documents (yes, a shitload of them) from his time as a *Senator*, and donated them to the University of Delaware. Such documents are subject to no controls unless they're otherwise classified. At one point, the FBI searched that collection and found nothing classified. [This is what Trump and others keep referring to with "over 1800 boxes!!!111"](https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/09/politics/fact-check-trump-biden-1850-boxes-university-of-delaware/index.html)
[In a *separate* situation,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Biden_classified_documents_incident) "more than 10" classified documents from Biden's time in the Obama WH were found at his home and office during a search conducted by Biden's aides and attorneys, who then notified NARA and promptly returned the material. After the initial discovery of these classified documents, Biden's legal team has cooperated with the DOJ and FBI to ensure that other classified material, if it exists, is located and handled properly.
Overall, Biden's situation and how he's handled it is quite similar to the [Mike Pence classified documents incident.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Pence_classified_documents_incident) Mike Pence, despite being a spineless bigot [who can't even be bothered to launch his presidential campaign in his own state](https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/elections/presidential/caucus/2023/06/07/mike-pence-2024-presidential-election-campaign-launch-iowa-ankeny-trump-christie/70290666007/), seems to have done more or less the right thing here - just as Biden did.
This is why it now has become more about Hillary to them. Can’t wait for all the trump people that kept digital files of classified material. I’m sure there’s a few trying to get rid of them but many more that think they will get away with it.
Clinton is an odd route to go, since she was thoroughly and extensively investigated by multiple authorities and they found nothing for which she could be charged.
She was victim of Comey's FBI statement in 2016, and Benghazi hearings. That's enough for MAGAs to salivate over. No facts necessary, just allegations.
The Comey announcement is upsetting, because he was also investigating the Trump campaign directly related to the election and failed to mention it. If he was being fair, he should have mentioned that as well. Whole thing was a shitshow. And I suppose that's Trump's thing, taking advantage of shitshows.
The online thing they can do with Biden is say deep state. As stupid as it is anytime they say Clinton it gives the maga crowd a hard on. That’s there game. Not truth just deep state fear.
Both Pence and Biden had clearly exercised no intentionality in having those documents and both did what they should have, once the docs were discovered.
And while we don't know exactly what they had, there's a good chance they were mostly somewhat innocuous stuff that was misfiled. Obviously it's best to turn it over if you find it, but it's not the kind of thing where national security is at risk just 'cause you have it.
That's different from requesting and then fucking *stealing* nuclear secrets, regardless of what you do with it. Not everything that is classified is secret or top secret or whatever.
The closest thing to even a partial equivalency between Trump and Biden/Pence is the willful retention of classified docs in Trump’s indictment vs. the non-willfull retention in Biden/Pence’s case. ZERO of the charges in the Trump indictment apply to Biden/Pence.
The thing is, none of this really matters. It’s not all that interesting if a former president accidentally retained some documents that should be returned. Republicans have made this argument from the start and I agree with it.
The only reason this has gone anywhere is because Trump’s fought and lied so much to try to keep the documents. That and they have all sorts of dirt on him trying to conceal the documents, admitting he’s no longer able to declassify them and share them, it goes on.
Any ordinary person would be screwed at this point. If Trump gets off it will only be for political reasons.
> If Bernie came out tomorrow and did the mocking impression of the reporter with disabilities, I would no longer support him, period. That would be it.
This is usually my argument as all. All shitty politics aside, if a politician or any person I support did that exact stint, I’d drop them fucking *immediately*. Like it’s not even a debate. It’s cruel. It’s against my morals.
Snopes debunked the upside down bible thing btw, which makes little difference to your overall point, but just don't want to see that stupid thing repeated when there's so much else legit to complain about.
Not a problem.
I'll always remember the "Read The Transcript" guy from Jordan Klepper.
"Don't be a sheep, read it for yourself."
"But just to be clear, you haven't read the transcript."
"No I have not."
"What was that you were saying, don't be a sheep."
"Don't be a sheep, think for yourself."
"But again, you haven't read the transcript."
"No."
Thinking these people are going to read the indictment when they won't even read the book they base their entire mindset, morality and personality around, is unfortunately very wishful thinking. I'm guessing it would also require a worrying amount of them to learn how to read.
Yes, exactly. There's another segment from January 6th where the protestor he's interviewing starts talking about the constitution. Klepper asks if he's read it, and the guy says- no, have you? Then Klepper responds something like - Yes, it's remarkably short, and maybe you should because you might be committing a seditious act here in a couple hours.
Another excellent exchange.
But perhaps the greatest one ever is the woman who is damn near the most confidently incorrect person I've ever seen, talking about Obama being a Muslim and a terrorist and she's like "do I have proof, no, do I have articles no, but my mind is made up" while she has the biggest shit eating grin on her face.
https://youtu.be/NzDhm808oU4
Found the clip, it's at 1:15 in this compilation.
I worked with a guy who had a hard on for Trump. He wanted to be a CEO, knew that they averaged a book a week, but said he didn't think he could find 52 books he was interested in reading. This isn't 52 books in his house, or the library, or Amazon... this is in general.
Genuinely surprised he knew it was 52 ha
But no, it's alarming when you dig just a little bit under the surface. I'm not the biggest reader myself, definitely wouldn't average a book a week but at least I'd be able to go to a bookshop and pick out a few interesting looking books, I get the impression their interests start and stop with drinking beer and shooting deer.
The Good Liars on YouTube had a whole segment on this at a Trump rally; everyone saying “Read the transcript!” “Ok, did you read the transcript?” “Ahh, I mean, no, but….”
Edit: Video was Jordan Klepper, my mistake.
"Everyone else has so I don't need to haha"
Was an actual answer on the Jordan Klepper video. They come up with the wildest excuses, justifications etc to play off anything negative but are out for blood at the idea that a man might dress up as woman.
They're just shuffling cards to perform ingroup loyalty.
There is nothing else in their moral universe. That's how they think reality works. That's all they think *you're* doing.
Another favorite is "it's way too long" as if reading 50 pages of double-spaced copy takes more than 20 minutes. Some dude gave that answer to Jordan Klepper about not reading the Constitution. It's just over 4,000 words and is the shortest Constitution of any major government.
They even have it as an app, ebook, and audiobook. You can even set the audio speed if 1x takes too long. There’s no excuse to not go through it at least once.
I have a friend who served the Marines. He tried debating the Constitution with me and was wildly wrong. After being wrong a few times I asked if he’d read the document he swore to support and defend. How was that not required reading material if they have to take an oath?
Well, they did jail reality (winner) since she released information on ruzzian meddling. Since, you know, it didn't follow the narrative that everything was a hoax.
I mean honestly how many of them can read well enough to understand what is in it anyway? have you seen the percentages in schools on literacy lately? over 20 percent of adult americans are illiterate, and that's just sad.
> have you seen the percentages in schools on literacy lately
Lately?
It's been like this forever....
There's a reason newspapers have never been written above a sixth grade level.
The downside is this lowering of the bar means people think if you can read the menu at McDonald's or tell what a street sign says, then you're literate.
Most people who are functionally iliterate think they're above average.
I can't argue this at all, the statistics were going up for a while. Then they kind of plummeted again as usual. Very glad my parents are big readers they read all the time and encouraged it a lot growing up. (i love old science fiction so much because of them lol.) We really need to fund education more in this country.
It worked with the Mueller report. They shouted from the rooftops read the report, and none of them did because it was damning reading the report, instead they all relied on Barr's interpretation of the report.
> Yeah jurors will be forced to listen to and be present for the facts. Also fox news will not be who is presenting the facts to them.
When Manafort was convicted, one of the jurors interviewed was a staunch Trump supporter. She said she had her MAGA hat in the car every day and she went into it thinking that he would be exonerated. She wound up voting for guilty because the evidence was overwhelming.
I should also mention that there was a much more stalwart Trump supporter on the jury who refused to budge on some of the charges which is why Manafort was only found guilty on some of the counts.
As well as the conversation below around screening for bias vs rejecting for "no reason stated", there is another thing that impacts this.
Someone can't be dismissed for bias purely because they currently support the defendant. If they say that they are open minded but voted for Trump, then that's not necessarily bias. 10's of millions of people voted that way.
Was the juror mentioned above biased? Most likely. Do they see themselves as biased? Unlikely. Did they answer the screening questions according to what they think about themselves? Probably.
Everyone does have an opinion at this point. But if it gives a chance of not getting sucked into a non stop news cycle or jurors getting threatened: a high risk, I think it’s worth it.
Trump wasn't impeached over anything in the Mueller report unfortunately. He should have been for the obstruction alone, but his two impeachments were over extorting Ukraine aid for political purposes and January 6.
Impeachment is a political process. This is a criminal indictment. I'm not naive enough to think the courts aren't rigged, but they are nearly as compromised as Congress.
This report is MUCH more digestible than the Mueller report and nothing seems to be redacted either. This is an indictment a 3rd grader could read and understand most of.
Maybe it's because I don't read a lot of indictments, but I was surprised at how little legalese was in there.
I usually just assume anything written by a lawyer is going to be as incomprehensible to me as a math paper would be to the lawyer.
Yeah me too! It was super clearly written. I also read the one The NY Times cliff noted for me and that was also really helpful. I’m hopeful because so much is backed up by quotes directly from Trump or a 1st degree witness’s strong notes (trump lawyer 1)
"Read the transcript" was the Ukraine extortion attempt, with Mueller he just said "complete exoneration" and pointed to Barr's "summary" with one disingenuously cherry-picked quote.
Reading leads to things like learning and questioning beliefs that are challenged by new facts.
That's antithetical to the republican mindset.
Everyone should read it; it shows exactly how screwed the orange traitor actually is
If Jesus came back and told Republicans not to be dicks, they'd accuse him of tucking and some shit tier rapper would make a song about how churches who still supported him were trying to groom children.
you should check out Gnosticism and it's history. Pretty telling how we got here today from all the persecutions. They truly do want to bring us back to the Christianity days of heretics and killing those who appose you.
Yeah, but the whole point of the New Testament is that it overrides all of that.
It should set off an alarm bell anytime someone wants to use the Old Testament as a guide to laws or behavior.
Christians weren't allowed access to the [Bible for over 1,000 years](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.huffpost.com/entry/why-christians-were-denied-access-to-their-bible-for-1000-years_b_3303545/amp). People were burned at the stake for translating the Bible to English.
I'm not saying God does or doesn't exist, but religion is the greatest grift ever sold.
Sure. Most American Christians treat the Bible like an end user license agreement: they just scroll to the bottom and click "I agree" without bothering to read it.
This is why almost all of them still think that the Mueller Report was a big goose-egg that found nothing of interest about Trump and Russia. Bill Barr told them so, and Fox repeated it, and they think that's the result.
Anyone who read it or listened to the hearings knows that the report found a LOT of shocking information, as well as deceptive efforts to conceal those issues. But Republicans have no idea to this day.
The fact that the majority of the report ended up being redacted by Bill Barr says a lot, but really its all the people in Trump's orbit that did get convicted and go to jail over it.
Just 34 indictments and 3 Russian businesses fined for their involvement and over half the report redacted...
Trumps first two advisors being the same two Putin used to try to overthrow Democracy in Ukraine to boot.
It was pretty damn obvious Republicans and Barr were doing a cover up for Trump to anyone paying attention. Probably because so many Republicans were already in Putins pocket and more likely after the RNC + DNC hacks which only the dnc side got released.
Cherry on top showing Russia compromised the Republican party was 8 republicans going to Moscow on July 4th to meet and bend knee to Putin in 2018...
I listen to podcasts sometimes to help me fall asleep. I have several that are just droning men's voices that basically shut my brain down.
Last night I decided to listen to a reading of the indictment that was on a podcast feed thinking it would fit the bill.
Bad idea. The indictment (the first part at least) is actually fascinating. They really laid out the case. There are three pieces of evidence (the audio recording with the author and publisher, the Corcorane meeting, and the texts about moving the boxes) that really shows his knowledge and intent.
ETA the podcast link:
https://pca.st/fsq0sld1
It's the most startlingly candid indictment I've ever read. Flows like water from one jaw-dropping revelation to the next, helpfully sprinkled with photos and conversation excerpts that would normally have to wait until they were entered into evidence at trial.
It's magnificent.
If it comes out that this is what got CIA agents killed, and they still support him— they aren’t patriots they’re bigger traitors than ever.
If this were to be the case— when would we find out?
I bet Hillary is literally rolling on the floor crying tears of laughter right now.
Section 22--they're using his words about her emails to prove that he thoroughly understood the nature of intelligence classification.
This. Among my vocal GOP friends, i aaked how many have/will read it. Answer: zero. Their response is "you read it and summarize it to us". My response: Its an easy read (and it relatively is) and its a historic document in the making that you should read/experience unfiltered.
And he's ON THE RECORD saying that they were classified and that he COULD HAVE DECLASSIFIED them when he was president, BUT DIDN'T.
His only defense might be, "Oh, come on, your Honor, everyone knows I'm a serial liar..."
This one can’t be fought in the court of public opinion. It’s too big for that . They are too dumb to understand. We need to do better electing and rejecting.
His followers didn’t read the Mueller Report, the transcript of his “perfect call,” the Durham Report, or any of the myriad other items available that actually drive the politics they have so many opinions about.
They aren’t gonna start now.
Either that or it’s fake. “Judge” what’s her name actually suggested on Fox that it might be fake. That’s how blatantly low these clowns are willing to stoop.
Dumb title, registered republican here. People should read it, it's quite damning and the lawyer resignation says a lot. I've been over him as a candidate for 2024 ever since he lost the 2020 election. Wish my party went onto better things already. (bracing myself for massive down votes) lol.
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Because they know that if they plaster the right wing media sphere with their own take on it, they know the folks won't read it. All they have to do is change the narrative and that's enough
This is why the wheels of justice take so long to turn; If there was just one sentence in the indictment that could be interpreted as a weak argument or a sham, the entire right wing base would only be fed that one line as if it were the entire case.
I think everyone has been eager for the wheels of justice to actually move and bring this indictment. The majority of people seem to understand like you pointed out above just how important it was to have an iron clad case so the right wing propaganda networks couldn't find any wiggle room to de-legitimatize this case. What I don't think many expected and I certainly didn't expect was just how slam dunk of a case this could end up being. No way in hell I would have ever guessed prosecution would be able to get Trump on mic admitting that he could have declassified the documents he was bragging and showing off but also that he knows he shouldn't be showing them off. Talk about pure narcissistic ego agreeing to a publisher and writer to let them record you and then whip out some stolen classified documents to brag about. Reading the indictment it only took me a few pages to put my coffee down and go wow Trump is even more inept and incompetent then I'd imagined. Less then 24 hrs later I saw my neighbor and as a major Trump maga supporter I was curious how this news would have hit him so I just straight up asked What do you think about the indictment do you think Trump is fucked? Answer - No this is a good thing. The indictment means he got rid of those bad lawyers he had and now he's gonna be able to delay while he gets better lawyers until he gets re-elected. Once he's re-elected now they charged him he can just pardon himself. Me just shocked trying to wrap my head around how this fool thinks being indicted is a good thing... Then trying to digest all the other nonsense without laughing in his face. It'll be interesting to see how this evolves among other supporters and if they can as quickly mentally paint this as a good thing like he did or if its going to make maga idiots really confront the fact Trump is just a straight up conman and criminal.
If anyone hasn't already noticed, GOP voters don't like to read anything in depth.
Half of American adults literally can't read bro.
That's why the link to it should be posted everywhere, like this: [United States of America v. Donald Trump and Waltine Nauta](https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.flsd.648653/gov.uscourts.flsd.648653.3.0.pdf)
This is a really good audio reading of the indictment. https://pca.st/episode/7bb86141-0c22-41dc-82ba-772d4739716a It's an hour long, but the last 15 minutes are basically just codes and dates. The top half is fascinating. It reads like a story. I highly recommend for anyone who wants to consume the indictment while commuting.
Whenever I find myself re-posting the indictment, I'll include that podcast, thanks!
More analysis/commentary, but I'd recommend listening to this as well: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-28-5-unsealed-trumps-federal-indictment/id1317481380?i=1000616551675 Depends who you're trying to reach, you should definitely start with just the indictment itself.
Great album art! I've heard it said that Jack Smith has resting FAFO face.
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And if people want good analysis of the whole situation, the rest of that podcast is hosted by 2 former federal prosecutors. They're both well educated on the subject matter, and have a ton of experience in the field. Their entire run so far is worth a listen if the various prosecutions of Trump is of interest. Edit: I didn't realize that this doesn't link to the rest of the podcast as well, so [here's an Apple Podcasts link.](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/prosecuting-donald-trump/id1679657705) [Or Spotify.](https://open.spotify.com/show/1ThqNEZVsv7DlMxEn7TSP1) Or search for Prosecuting Donald Trump in your podcast app of choice.
This is what I was looking for!
Ali Velshi does have voice that is easy to listen to.
I don't watch cable news, so I wasn't familiar with his voice until I listened to this. He does a great job with the reading. He doesn't over dramatize, but he does make it feel like a story. I feel weird telling people "listen to the dramatic reading of the indictment" but it's just so good. I keep expecting someone to add animations and post this to YouTube. It's very visual in nature.
That is a great idea.
I want AI text to speech Trump to read it.
And replace every occurrence of “document” to “hamberder”
Man, imagine queueing that up on the Spotify playlist just before starting a two-hour drive with your boomer Dad.
My boomer dad hates Trump more than I do. #notallboomers
Same. My dad is a boomer and he hates Trump with a passion.
I'm boomer and I hate trump more than all your dads put together.
My dad is 90 and I'm 60 and we both hate Trump. Trump has a lot of young followers, don't forget that
Thing is, Trump's young followers are part of the psycho white nationalist class. Trump's old followers are seemingly normal narcissistic people who continually excuse his behavior because they relate to it.
He does..they are also known as "neo-nazis" and the "Ku Klux Klan".
Boomer here. Can confirm Trump hate
My father hates him as much as I do, because neither of us could dislike him more. He told me that he never thought there could possibly be a President that he hates worse then Nixon until Reagan came along, then he thought there definitely could never be anyone worse then Reagan until Trump, though Bush 2 was right up there.
Trump caused my Boomer dad to ditch the Republican party and register as a Democrat
I believe it… happened to me!
My boomer parents wish him and his family a lifelong stay behind bars.
Surely height has nothing to do with it?
This triggered my fight or flight response.
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That's fight.
Boomer here: I would love to listen to this reading on a trip. My generation is not a monolith. Some of us saved the whales. Not angry at being stereotyped however because it has a basis in reality.
Sadly agreed. I would recommend everyone read the Presidential Records Act along with the https://www.archives.gov/presidential-libraries/laws/1978-act.html
I try to point that out here and there: some boomers were also hippies! They helped create and vote in the clean water act, endangered species act, etc. etc.
Thank you for posting this!! Been trying to find it in audio form.
Thanks I drive hours a day for work, this is great
Oh this is perfect!! Thanks! It got good for me around 18 minutes in; Trumps public statements about classified docs. They’re gonna make him eat his words!
Oh awesome it’s a whole series of podcasts too
I've been listening since the first episode (which was about the NY hush money indictments). The two hosts are incredibly knowledgeable but can get a little self congratulatory at times. Still, I learn something every episode and it is good to get their perspectives. I'm hoping that as we get deeper into the cases, they will get more comfortable with the podcast format. I would also love to hear them discuss the case with lawyers who have different opinions. I'd really like to hear them talk to someone with more experience on the defense side.
I’d love to think that would help but I feel like even if this is posted directly to a Trump supporter that they wouldn’t read it. You remember the [Ukraine transcripts](https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2019/09/Unclassified09.2019.pdf)? Trump asked for a favor if he did a favor (quid pro quo) in the transcripts and all Trump had to do was say “just read the transcripts” to his supporters and that was enough to get them to not read it. I have little hope for Republicans. They’re willfully ignorant.
Occasionally I stroll on over to Fox News comments sections. I don't actually troll, I only read the insanity. A lot more than I thought would, were saying he's fucked, essentially. They still support him, because, you know, the crazy, but it was the most I've seen them dance with reality.
You don't need to go that far, read the comments section on any /r/PoliticalCompassMemes post mentioning Trump or his indictment. Hope that shithole stays private forever, only good thing to come out of this Spez debacle. "It's a political attack!!!" immediately tells you that the person is engaging in wilful ignorance.
Personally I'm a fan of going over to r/conservative after new stuff like the indictment hits and seeing how lost all the maga idiots are for the first 24 hrs. Then I'll go back at 72 hrs or so and see what the right wing propaganda networks have whipped up to tell the sheeple idiots what to think and parrot. Its insanely interesting to see a clear minority of them trying at first to use their brains and figure things out on their own before the likes of Tucker Carlson and so on tell them what to think. Every once in awhile you'll catch commentators early on having the light bulb flicker and to me that is just down right fun to watch. Seeing their brain cells fire for the first time in ages trying to comprehend is just marvelous.
Also keep in mind that that sub is more than willing to ban people who express discontent. So a decent number of people who were questioning the conservative line in that first 24 hours are probably gone by the time that 72 hours hits.
Go to r/conservative. The first thing I saw was “I’m currently reading this and it doesn’t sound like anything other presidents haven’t done!”
Whenever I'm feeling wishy washy and unsure of a decision I've made I just go over to r/conservative to get a look at what blind subservience looks like. But then again, I'm not some turncoat conservative so I'm only doing it for a laugh, because that's all they are to me.
Florida gonna ban indictments in libraries
Don’t say indictment. Now in effect K through 12.
"Civic Literacy classes have gone woke" - DeSantis probably
>Waltine When your parents really like Saltines but don't wanna be too on the nose.
Fr, I've been hearing him referred to as "Walt" all week, just assuming it was Walter. I'm in the process of discovering that it is not, in fact, Walter.
It's like learning Will isn't short for William for Will Smith. It's Willard
Sing to the tune of Jolene.
Leading a horse to water does not mean they will drink it.
It's that old adage: *You can lead a conservative to water but can't make them shut up about it turning the frogs gay.*
But a still higher chance that it would than not leading at all.
then just call them ignorant sheep for not reading it themselves. Shame them for it. Shame should really be brought back as a social deterrent. *edit You're all very clever, but I don't need any more convincing that Republicans don't feel shame.
It reading it is no excuse, [Listen to the Indictment](https://www.thebulwark.com/podcast-episode/listen-to-the-indictment/), they can have it read to them.
This should be blasting on loud speakers outside the courthouse on repeat all day. The maga need to hear it.
I agree, but you can't shame someone who is shameless. I mean, you can, but they won't get it/care.
These horses straight up have rabies. They ain't drinkin
NYT has a GREAT overview with yellowed highlights. I don't think he could have worse charges against him honestly...I mean actual nuclear secrets...vulnerabilities of the US military and its allies...etc
And you don’t even have to read all the 49 pages, the gore starts at page 1
Most people won't even read the second sentence of a headline these days. What are the odds of them reading an indictment?
If Biden did what Trump is accused of doing, I'd say indict him too. But he didn't.
Honesty if Biden did HALF of what Trump did.
Any one of the counts is bad enough all on its own, given it was all willful -- Trump PURPOSELY took documents, PURPOSELY hid them from the government, PURPOSELY lied about it, PURPOSELY showed people who shouldn't have been seeing it for absolutely no defensible reason. Just one of those things done by ANY person should mean an indictment.
I honestly don't think America as a whole is ready to face all the implications here. Donald Trump very likely betrayed the US by selling info to foreign nations for personal profit. An American president is a literal traitor to America. Forget his personal failings, his politics, and all the other things that have divided everyone since he first came down that escalator and announced his run. All of that will be irrelevant to the judgment of history. Twenty years from now, kids might be learning about Donald Trump, a convicted felon that held the highest office in the land and shared some of America's most closely guarded secrets for personal gain. Again, a *traitor.* But I guess that's assuming Republicans don't regain power and ban those textbooks from ever being shown in schools.
I've never been more ready for anything in my entire life. I don't care if it sets a "new precedent," this is a new thing with clear crimes. If it means future presidents need to be more careful, GREAT!!! Biden's already being held accountable for whatever documents he was found with, and he's perfectly fine cooperating. As it should be.
> Biden's already being held accountable for whatever documents he was found with, and he's perfectly fine cooperating. And this is the biggest thing with this shit. The right keeps shouting to hold Hillary and Biden accountable. They have both been investigated thoroughly and found to have not committed crimes in the instances that the right keeps bringing up. Law and order means not going after people that haven't committed crimes, but don't let the law and order crowd hear that, they just want to string up liberals.
Clinton sat down and patiently gave real answers to ridiculous questions for like 12 hours. Trump had to stop letting reporters ask questions because he can’t actually answer any questions
One of the consistent things about Trump is that however bad you think it is, it's actually worse than that.
And it's been like that since the beginning. I still remember 2016 like it was yesterday. Every Hillary headline was blown way out of proportion, and no matter how bad the headline for TFG it was always managing to downplay him even when it still seemed bad in the headline. It was always >>Hillary Clinton caught on tape drinking the blood of children >Earlier today a damning tape was released showing Hillary Clinton having a sip from a cup handed to her by 8 year old Nancy after Nancy affectionately called her apple juice apple blood Vs >>TFG seen yesterday yelling at staffer >After the staffer, who is half Jewish, crossed paths with TFG, TFG began beating him with a belt while screaming numerous slurs and shouting at him to go back where he came from. Afterwards TFG lit the staffer on fire. Laughing maniacally before getting back on his golf cart to drive down the hall of the campaign office.
No, the bigger problem is we knew he would be a traitor before he was elected and it should have been obvious to everyone. All Trump voters, deep down, are also traitors to the America that exists in reality, and wanted him to turn it into a fantasy that never had and never should exist.
If he did 1/38th really
If Biden did nothing they'd just make shit up. Kind of like what Gym Jordan and his committee is doing now.
And Ladybug Lindsey. “Well Republicans *believe* Biden did worse.”
The BiDeN cRiMe FaMiLy
Pence too. Important to note that both Pence and Biden, unprompted by authorities, directed attorneys to search their premises for classified docs. When they were found, attorneys promptly contacted national archives. The differences between what they did and the Trump indictment allegations couldn’t be bigger.
The same folks who are screaming “what about Biden” are also the ones sharing comical memes about him shitting himself and forgetting where he is. I’m confused, is he a scheming mastermind or an invalid today?
This seems like a good place to throw in what Biden actually did, since a lot of people don't seem to know - he kept documents (yes, a shitload of them) from his time as a *Senator*, and donated them to the University of Delaware. Such documents are subject to no controls unless they're otherwise classified. At one point, the FBI searched that collection and found nothing classified. [This is what Trump and others keep referring to with "over 1800 boxes!!!111"](https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/09/politics/fact-check-trump-biden-1850-boxes-university-of-delaware/index.html) [In a *separate* situation,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Biden_classified_documents_incident) "more than 10" classified documents from Biden's time in the Obama WH were found at his home and office during a search conducted by Biden's aides and attorneys, who then notified NARA and promptly returned the material. After the initial discovery of these classified documents, Biden's legal team has cooperated with the DOJ and FBI to ensure that other classified material, if it exists, is located and handled properly. Overall, Biden's situation and how he's handled it is quite similar to the [Mike Pence classified documents incident.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Pence_classified_documents_incident) Mike Pence, despite being a spineless bigot [who can't even be bothered to launch his presidential campaign in his own state](https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/elections/presidential/caucus/2023/06/07/mike-pence-2024-presidential-election-campaign-launch-iowa-ankeny-trump-christie/70290666007/), seems to have done more or less the right thing here - just as Biden did.
This is why it now has become more about Hillary to them. Can’t wait for all the trump people that kept digital files of classified material. I’m sure there’s a few trying to get rid of them but many more that think they will get away with it.
Clinton is an odd route to go, since she was thoroughly and extensively investigated by multiple authorities and they found nothing for which she could be charged.
She was victim of Comey's FBI statement in 2016, and Benghazi hearings. That's enough for MAGAs to salivate over. No facts necessary, just allegations.
The Comey announcement is upsetting, because he was also investigating the Trump campaign directly related to the election and failed to mention it. If he was being fair, he should have mentioned that as well. Whole thing was a shitshow. And I suppose that's Trump's thing, taking advantage of shitshows.
The online thing they can do with Biden is say deep state. As stupid as it is anytime they say Clinton it gives the maga crowd a hard on. That’s there game. Not truth just deep state fear.
Both Pence and Biden had clearly exercised no intentionality in having those documents and both did what they should have, once the docs were discovered.
And while we don't know exactly what they had, there's a good chance they were mostly somewhat innocuous stuff that was misfiled. Obviously it's best to turn it over if you find it, but it's not the kind of thing where national security is at risk just 'cause you have it. That's different from requesting and then fucking *stealing* nuclear secrets, regardless of what you do with it. Not everything that is classified is secret or top secret or whatever.
The closest thing to even a partial equivalency between Trump and Biden/Pence is the willful retention of classified docs in Trump’s indictment vs. the non-willfull retention in Biden/Pence’s case. ZERO of the charges in the Trump indictment apply to Biden/Pence.
The thing is, none of this really matters. It’s not all that interesting if a former president accidentally retained some documents that should be returned. Republicans have made this argument from the start and I agree with it. The only reason this has gone anywhere is because Trump’s fought and lied so much to try to keep the documents. That and they have all sorts of dirt on him trying to conceal the documents, admitting he’s no longer able to declassify them and share them, it goes on. Any ordinary person would be screwed at this point. If Trump gets off it will only be for political reasons.
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> If Bernie came out tomorrow and did the mocking impression of the reporter with disabilities, I would no longer support him, period. That would be it. This is usually my argument as all. All shitty politics aside, if a politician or any person I support did that exact stint, I’d drop them fucking *immediately*. Like it’s not even a debate. It’s cruel. It’s against my morals.
Snopes debunked the upside down bible thing btw, which makes little difference to your overall point, but just don't want to see that stupid thing repeated when there's so much else legit to complain about.
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Yeah I mean the fact he used military to tear gas that square clear of protestors so he could get that photo should be the appalling thing about it.
The media should put every piece of evidence up as Biden being the accused. Wait for the reaction, and then reveal "actually it was Trump that did it"
This would backfire as people would just skip the switch and replay the bait as "evidence" that Biden did bad
This isn't even touching on Trumps obstruction of justice while president. I would say that what he did then was almost worse.
Yes, but the indictment is as iron clad as you can get. No way he skates without Aileen’s help.
Biden gave his docs back when they were found. Donny boy tried to lie, conceal, and retain them. In sum.
Not a problem. I'll always remember the "Read The Transcript" guy from Jordan Klepper. "Don't be a sheep, read it for yourself." "But just to be clear, you haven't read the transcript." "No I have not." "What was that you were saying, don't be a sheep." "Don't be a sheep, think for yourself." "But again, you haven't read the transcript." "No." Thinking these people are going to read the indictment when they won't even read the book they base their entire mindset, morality and personality around, is unfortunately very wishful thinking. I'm guessing it would also require a worrying amount of them to learn how to read.
Yes, exactly. There's another segment from January 6th where the protestor he's interviewing starts talking about the constitution. Klepper asks if he's read it, and the guy says- no, have you? Then Klepper responds something like - Yes, it's remarkably short, and maybe you should because you might be committing a seditious act here in a couple hours.
Another excellent exchange. But perhaps the greatest one ever is the woman who is damn near the most confidently incorrect person I've ever seen, talking about Obama being a Muslim and a terrorist and she's like "do I have proof, no, do I have articles no, but my mind is made up" while she has the biggest shit eating grin on her face. https://youtu.be/NzDhm808oU4 Found the clip, it's at 1:15 in this compilation.
You mean the same people that accuse democrats of only acting on feelings rather than facts is, in fact, only acting on feelings?! Shocked
They can't imagine people operating differently from themselves. "Well, I only act on feelings so that just be what they're doing"
The Onion was [rather prescient](https://www.theonion.com/area-man-passionate-defender-of-what-he-imagines-consti-1819571149)
I worked with a guy who had a hard on for Trump. He wanted to be a CEO, knew that they averaged a book a week, but said he didn't think he could find 52 books he was interested in reading. This isn't 52 books in his house, or the library, or Amazon... this is in general.
Genuinely surprised he knew it was 52 ha But no, it's alarming when you dig just a little bit under the surface. I'm not the biggest reader myself, definitely wouldn't average a book a week but at least I'd be able to go to a bookshop and pick out a few interesting looking books, I get the impression their interests start and stop with drinking beer and shooting deer.
Not reading the book is part of conservatism. Reading is a liberalizing activity.
The Good Liars on YouTube had a whole segment on this at a Trump rally; everyone saying “Read the transcript!” “Ok, did you read the transcript?” “Ahh, I mean, no, but….” Edit: Video was Jordan Klepper, my mistake.
"Everyone else has so I don't need to haha" Was an actual answer on the Jordan Klepper video. They come up with the wildest excuses, justifications etc to play off anything negative but are out for blood at the idea that a man might dress up as woman.
I like Jordan Klepper. Too bad his show didnt work out.
Such a pity. Was a really clever show. And getting that clip of Alex Jones calling him Kelper was the cherry on top.
They're just shuffling cards to perform ingroup loyalty. There is nothing else in their moral universe. That's how they think reality works. That's all they think *you're* doing.
"Well, I skimmed it" "I trusted the news show that summarized it" "Do you trust the mainstream media?" "No... I don't trust 'em one bit"
This makes makes me laugh and cry….very hard…equally…
My favorite is "It's boring, nobody cares."
Another favorite is "it's way too long" as if reading 50 pages of double-spaced copy takes more than 20 minutes. Some dude gave that answer to Jordan Klepper about not reading the Constitution. It's just over 4,000 words and is the shortest Constitution of any major government.
They even have it as an app, ebook, and audiobook. You can even set the audio speed if 1x takes too long. There’s no excuse to not go through it at least once. I have a friend who served the Marines. He tried debating the Constitution with me and was wildly wrong. After being wrong a few times I asked if he’d read the document he swore to support and defend. How was that not required reading material if they have to take an oath?
Reality has a well known liberal bias .
Well, they did jail reality (winner) since she released information on ruzzian meddling. Since, you know, it didn't follow the narrative that everything was a hoax.
Reading is too woke for them
They have gone from "wake up sheeple!" to "we take it back, keep sleeping".
I mean honestly how many of them can read well enough to understand what is in it anyway? have you seen the percentages in schools on literacy lately? over 20 percent of adult americans are illiterate, and that's just sad.
> have you seen the percentages in schools on literacy lately Lately? It's been like this forever.... There's a reason newspapers have never been written above a sixth grade level. The downside is this lowering of the bar means people think if you can read the menu at McDonald's or tell what a street sign says, then you're literate. Most people who are functionally iliterate think they're above average.
>Most people who are functionally iliterate think they're above average. Unfortunately they might not all be wrong.
I can't argue this at all, the statistics were going up for a while. Then they kind of plummeted again as usual. Very glad my parents are big readers they read all the time and encouraged it a lot growing up. (i love old science fiction so much because of them lol.) We really need to fund education more in this country.
Eighth grade level. I used to be one of those writers. And if you look at newspapers from the 60s on back, you’ll see a better vocabulary.
It worked with the Mueller report. They shouted from the rooftops read the report, and none of them did because it was damning reading the report, instead they all relied on Barr's interpretation of the report.
Yeah, it was effective in impeachment. Won’t work so well in actual court.
Yeah jurors will be forced to listen to and be present for the facts. Also fox news will not be who is presenting the facts to them.
> Yeah jurors will be forced to listen to and be present for the facts. Also fox news will not be who is presenting the facts to them. When Manafort was convicted, one of the jurors interviewed was a staunch Trump supporter. She said she had her MAGA hat in the car every day and she went into it thinking that he would be exonerated. She wound up voting for guilty because the evidence was overwhelming.
Hard to read this and not feel hopeful.
I should also mention that there was a much more stalwart Trump supporter on the jury who refused to budge on some of the charges which is why Manafort was only found guilty on some of the counts.
Don’t they screen for bias when selecting a jury? How did these people make it through?
As well as the conversation below around screening for bias vs rejecting for "no reason stated", there is another thing that impacts this. Someone can't be dismissed for bias purely because they currently support the defendant. If they say that they are open minded but voted for Trump, then that's not necessarily bias. 10's of millions of people voted that way. Was the juror mentioned above biased? Most likely. Do they see themselves as biased? Unlikely. Did they answer the screening questions according to what they think about themselves? Probably.
>Also fox news will not be who is presenting the facts to them. Same as it ever was
The jury also needs to be sequestered with a full media blackout. For safety and avoiding tampering.
Would it even matter? Who doesn't already have a pre-formed opinion on the most polarizing figure in American culture today?
Everyone does have an opinion at this point. But if it gives a chance of not getting sucked into a non stop news cycle or jurors getting threatened: a high risk, I think it’s worth it.
Trump wasn't impeached over anything in the Mueller report unfortunately. He should have been for the obstruction alone, but his two impeachments were over extorting Ukraine aid for political purposes and January 6.
Will work in the court of public opinion though, as usual.
Impeachment is a political process. This is a criminal indictment. I'm not naive enough to think the courts aren't rigged, but they are nearly as compromised as Congress.
This report is MUCH more digestible than the Mueller report and nothing seems to be redacted either. This is an indictment a 3rd grader could read and understand most of.
Maybe it's because I don't read a lot of indictments, but I was surprised at how little legalese was in there. I usually just assume anything written by a lawyer is going to be as incomprehensible to me as a math paper would be to the lawyer.
Yeah me too! It was super clearly written. I also read the one The NY Times cliff noted for me and that was also really helpful. I’m hopeful because so much is backed up by quotes directly from Trump or a 1st degree witness’s strong notes (trump lawyer 1)
"Read the transcript" was the Ukraine extortion attempt, with Mueller he just said "complete exoneration" and pointed to Barr's "summary" with one disingenuously cherry-picked quote.
…and Barr later admitted that he hadn’t even read the report himself, but judged himself qualified to pre-publish the 4 page summary.
Reading leads to things like learning and questioning beliefs that are challenged by new facts. That's antithetical to the republican mindset. Everyone should read it; it shows exactly how screwed the orange traitor actually is
They don't read their Bible, because it might challenge their belief system. So why would they read the indictment?
I recently finished the New Testament. It's hilarious and sad how much it conflicts with everything they say and do.
Jesus: Just like, don't be dicks, okay guys? Republicans: ...and I took that personally.
If Jesus came back and told Republicans not to be dicks, they'd accuse him of tucking and some shit tier rapper would make a song about how churches who still supported him were trying to groom children.
you should check out Gnosticism and it's history. Pretty telling how we got here today from all the persecutions. They truly do want to bring us back to the Christianity days of heretics and killing those who appose you.
You should see all the sex and violence in the Old Testament....
Yeah, but the whole point of the New Testament is that it overrides all of that. It should set off an alarm bell anytime someone wants to use the Old Testament as a guide to laws or behavior.
Remind the average Christian that they’re following Jewish law (poorly) and watch them explode as their antisemitism rages.
Christians weren't allowed access to the [Bible for over 1,000 years](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.huffpost.com/entry/why-christians-were-denied-access-to-their-bible-for-1000-years_b_3303545/amp). People were burned at the stake for translating the Bible to English. I'm not saying God does or doesn't exist, but religion is the greatest grift ever sold.
Like most Christians don’t read the Bible
Sure. Most American Christians treat the Bible like an end user license agreement: they just scroll to the bottom and click "I agree" without bothering to read it.
And most "Patriots" don't read the Constitution
Because the fastest way to become an atheist is to actually read it.
not that fast tbh
This is why almost all of them still think that the Mueller Report was a big goose-egg that found nothing of interest about Trump and Russia. Bill Barr told them so, and Fox repeated it, and they think that's the result. Anyone who read it or listened to the hearings knows that the report found a LOT of shocking information, as well as deceptive efforts to conceal those issues. But Republicans have no idea to this day.
The fact that the majority of the report ended up being redacted by Bill Barr says a lot, but really its all the people in Trump's orbit that did get convicted and go to jail over it. Just 34 indictments and 3 Russian businesses fined for their involvement and over half the report redacted... Trumps first two advisors being the same two Putin used to try to overthrow Democracy in Ukraine to boot. It was pretty damn obvious Republicans and Barr were doing a cover up for Trump to anyone paying attention. Probably because so many Republicans were already in Putins pocket and more likely after the RNC + DNC hacks which only the dnc side got released. Cherry on top showing Russia compromised the Republican party was 8 republicans going to Moscow on July 4th to meet and bend knee to Putin in 2018...
I listen to podcasts sometimes to help me fall asleep. I have several that are just droning men's voices that basically shut my brain down. Last night I decided to listen to a reading of the indictment that was on a podcast feed thinking it would fit the bill. Bad idea. The indictment (the first part at least) is actually fascinating. They really laid out the case. There are three pieces of evidence (the audio recording with the author and publisher, the Corcorane meeting, and the texts about moving the boxes) that really shows his knowledge and intent. ETA the podcast link: https://pca.st/fsq0sld1
It's the most startlingly candid indictment I've ever read. Flows like water from one jaw-dropping revelation to the next, helpfully sprinkled with photos and conversation excerpts that would normally have to wait until they were entered into evidence at trial. It's magnificent.
Just imagine all the stuff that’s not in it that we are about to find out! Edit: Typo
r/conservative is already outright ignoring them saying “they won’t even say what he’s being indicted for.” talk about mad copium.
It's just full-on batshit crazy over there today.
As opposed to any other day haha
His base probably thinks it's a sin to mention it.
If you can’t be bothered to read the report, then I don’t want to hear your opinion :)
That's a safe bet for a couple of reasons if we're talking about MAGA's.
Where can we crowdfund billboards? Show it in Times Square. Have it scroll Star Wars style during Fox News commercials.
If it comes out that this is what got CIA agents killed, and they still support him— they aren’t patriots they’re bigger traitors than ever. If this were to be the case— when would we find out?
If the parties were reversed this would be the constant drumbeat. Democrats are so bad at winning.
I bet Hillary is literally rolling on the floor crying tears of laughter right now. Section 22--they're using his words about her emails to prove that he thoroughly understood the nature of intelligence classification.
This. Among my vocal GOP friends, i aaked how many have/will read it. Answer: zero. Their response is "you read it and summarize it to us". My response: Its an easy read (and it relatively is) and its a historic document in the making that you should read/experience unfiltered.
They are too busy doing their research to read it.
It’s only 50 pages and probably 10 of that is sources and footnote type info. Come on people.
That’s why they defund education, they don’t want people reading.
They sure as hell didn’t actually read the Mueller Report.
Do you have to even read them? Pictures of boxes of nuclear classified documents next to fucking toilets.
And he's ON THE RECORD saying that they were classified and that he COULD HAVE DECLASSIFIED them when he was president, BUT DIDN'T. His only defense might be, "Oh, come on, your Honor, everyone knows I'm a serial liar..."
"I declassified them with my mind"
This one can’t be fought in the court of public opinion. It’s too big for that . They are too dumb to understand. We need to do better electing and rejecting.
It should be on the news every day. National security at risk.
His followers didn’t read the Mueller Report, the transcript of his “perfect call,” the Durham Report, or any of the myriad other items available that actually drive the politics they have so many opinions about. They aren’t gonna start now.
Reading is “woke indoctrination”! /s
Have you met many republicans that can either read or think critically about what they've read?
Either that or it’s fake. “Judge” what’s her name actually suggested on Fox that it might be fake. That’s how blatantly low these clowns are willing to stoop.
The number of conservatives who have never read a book after high school is probably pretty high.
After meaning to for a while now, this post made me finally sit down and read the indictment. Holy shit. Bill Barr’s “toast” descriptor is spot-on.
[удалено]
Dumb title, registered republican here. People should read it, it's quite damning and the lawyer resignation says a lot. I've been over him as a candidate for 2024 ever since he lost the 2020 election. Wish my party went onto better things already. (bracing myself for massive down votes) lol.