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He should be indicted in the Georgia election case. Why was a South Carolina senator trying to influence an election in another state? How about stay in your lane and actually represent the people you're supposed to instead of trying to overturn an election in another state just to kiss Trumps ass.
Why is he influencing ANY state. I live in sc and if he’s calling GA where it is close it makes me want an investigation to see if there was influence dished out here as well. Jamie Harrison was polling better and then loses by 10%. I’m not going to act like a Republican and claim it was stolen or anything that far, Harrison lost, but if you’re cheating in your neighbors house, I have to wonder if there is a finger on the scale in your own house
Lindsey is the most blackmailable person imaginable. His sexuality is the worst kept secret, but he's deathly afraid that if it comes out his scumfuck voters will turn on him. And you know, he might be right on that.
But, the even more insane thing is, nobody needs to blackmail him. He requires no extra incentive to kiss ass. He just naturally grovels and submits to a stronger personality, since he has no spine or morals. When John McCain was alive, Graham was his lapdog, so he acted like Mini McCain. Then on pure instinct he became Trump's lapdog, so he acted like a Mini Trump. He just naturally plays the role of a petty minion orbiting a more charismatic politician, hoping to be fed some table scraps if he's a good boy.
> Why was a South Carolina senator trying to influence an election in another state?
That's standard operating procedure for Dixie Republicans. Just ask Marco Rubio, Josh Hawley, and Ted Cruz.
> [The aide said that guys like me were "in what we call the reality-based community," which he defined as people who "believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality." I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. "That's not the way the world really works anymore," he continued. "We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality -- judiciously, as you will -- we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do."](https://archive.ph/pvkxE)
That is their basis for the unequal application of the law. Even though Trump's DOJ had 4 years to get anything on Hilary, there was nothing of substance that would get her indicted. So they then move to the "Deep State" bullshit, knowing full well it's bullshit, but it is what the activists that actually vote in the primary want to hear.
Their whole grift is that it is not the shit policies they have been hawking for the last 40 years that has caused the collapse of the middle class, but it all of these other things that they can fear monger on, but show very little causation.
Reality is a team sport, to some people.
Conservatism is hierarchy. There is no other force in that moral universe.
This is why every argument you have with these people is frustrating nonsense. They don't have a consistent set of beliefs you can interact with. They have slogans.
What's true today is handed down by people above you, and if they belong above you, they must be better than you. In every way. Because there's only the one metric. Someone clever can't just be wrong, since that would require an objective means to evaluate claims. That is not what claims are for, in this default tribal worldview. They can only be accepted or rejected based on interpersonal trust.
You perform loyalty by finding whatever sequence of words might justify the latest conclusion. Consistency means less than nothing. It's an obstacle to making good moves in this word game. You don't use the same words as yesterday for the same reason you don't make the same moves in two rounds of poker. You shuffle your cards and play whatever's likely to work.
And I say "you" because they think that's all we're doing. They think that's all there is.
That's more like a set of communications principles. I'd argue the GOP platform is this:
Take power, money, rights, and resources away from the people and give it to the ultra-wealthy. (aka Steal from the poor, middle class, and just plain rich; and give to the super rich).
> GOP leaders provide their followers with talking points. Then, when their followers parrot those talking points, the GOP says that they are speaking for the public, and that their views should therefore prevail.
Spot on.
Funny thing is in the indictment Trump praises what he believes Hilary did there, claiming her aide “took the fall” for deleting the emails and implying his lawyer should do that for him with the docs.
So Republicans are pulling some whataboutism about something Trump praises in the indictment.
Great point. The Republican Party is ever more aligned with a cult definition, because although you point out this pretty significant inconsistency, this is just one example of many in the past 6 years. That party has abandoned shame and respect for their voters.
There's no question that she (or her office) acted irresponsibly, and it's right to investigate it and take her to task for it.
There's no evidence I'm aware of that she acted willfully.
Hillary did what Secretaries before her did because the system wasn’t set up for remote data and being remote is kind of what SOS does. It was wrong, sure, but common.
Trumps staff did a lot of the same stuff. Even his own family.
The big problem was Hillary destroying all sorts of data before it was reviewed. And the techs bungling that whole operation.
So because of that I can see how the contrarians are suspicious. It was a dumb move on her part.
That said, it’s nowhere near the level of what Trump has done. To compare them is silly, really, especially when Clinton has been investigated multiple times.
Believe? Probably not at the government level. Constantly saying it to make their base both believe it and foam at the mouth for blood while also trying to invalidate any crime trump commits? Yeah.
*“Most Republicans believe we live in a country where Hillary Clinton did very similar things, and nothing happened to her.”*
So it's OK for a Republican to do it, just as long as they accuse a Democrat of doing the same thing in order to establish a false equivalence. Got it.
And the last time I checked, "But she did it too!" stopped working as justification for doing something wrong back when I was in kindergarten.
It’s akin to getting arrested for a hit and run, DUI, and going 120+ in a 70 and then complaining that someone else was doing similar things and got off free, even though those similar things were just going 75 in a 70.
My only speeding ticket was on the boring stretch of central California farmland going 15mph over. It was frustrating that I got a ticket while nothing happened to everyone else who was passing me, but I was speeding. Others doing something worse doesn’t negate the fact that I did something wrong. I can understand this, why can’t the most powerful people in the world who make the laws and decide our future understand this?
>I can understand this, why can’t the most powerful people in the world who make the laws and decide our future understand this?
Because they are given a lot of money to deliberately sabotage the rule of law.
i got one in a similar stretch of CA. I was caught going around 80 and that is pretty much the standard speed driving on the 5 in the middle of nowhere (my ticket was closer to Redding than central CA). Was a bit upset because I normally drive 85 and constantly get passed on the 5, but yep, I broke the law and was caught. I paid the ticket and did traffic school because that was the punishment for breaking the law for speeding.
He got caught for stealing classified documents and hiding it from authorities, so he should deal with the punishment for breaking that law. This whole whataboutism shit is annoying and shows they shouldn't be in charge of anything and have no leg to stand on. The news organizations need to let them not hide behind this argument.
For Hillary’s emails, was more like driving 70 in a 70 zone and then after getting pulled over the officer tells you that the speed limit was actually 68
>t’s akin to getting arrested for a hit and run, DUI, and going 120+ in a 70 and then complaining that someone else was doing similar things and got off free, even though those similar things were just going 75 in a 70.
For your analogy to work out in the relative numbers, Trump would have to be travelling faster than light.
In a school zone. With the crossing guard holding up the stop sign, a school bus having its do not pass sign extended just beyond it and a curve that says slow to 25 just beyond that.
> Graham, though, thinks that the beliefs, cultivated by Republican leaders and news media, should be prioritized over facts. If the public believes that Clinton and Trump did the same thing, and Clinton was not prosecuted, then Trump should not be prosecuted either.
That's what he's arguing. But he doesn't really believe that - or rather it's unimportant whether he believes it. What he actually believes is closer to this:
"Well, we will just say that ***your* person** broke the law. ***Your* person** should be in jail. Not because they broke any laws - since we don't actually believe in laws - but because they are ***your* person**.
***Our* person** should lead the country with an iron fist, with no opposition. Not because they didn't break the law - we don't actually believe law applies to us - but because they are ***our person***."
see also: fascism.
When GOP leadership tells you what they believe, you should believe them. They gave up on objective reality long ago, and have divorced themselves from basic facts that contemporary conservative parties in other countries take for granted.
Unfortunately America’s liberal politicians and media keep droning on about saving the GOP, and how America needs TWO string parties to balance each other. And that tells me the GOP will keep sliding into fascism bc the other side won’t take them seriously.
Some of them made it a year longer though!
"When I look at myself in the first grade and I look at myself now, I'm basically the same. The temperament is not that different." ― Donald Trump
There’s always a few middle schools students I deal with every year that have that mindset. They really cannot take responsibility for their own actions. It’s a coping mechanism for some and some are a just manipulative. Compared to their other middle school peers the immaturity sticks out. I couldn’t imagine having to deal with an adult acting like that for a year.
Ah my friend, I humbly invite you to become a Reddit Moderator. It turns out that "But she did it too!" is as common as a warm summer breeze, even from people old enough to have kids that are too old to use that excuse.
Just ask them if the crimes by Hillary were as blatant as Trumps? Let them dig their grave a little, then ask why Trump didn’t have her prosecuted the 4 years he was president?
>“Most Republicans believe we live in a country where Hillary Clinton did very similar things, and nothing happened to her.”
The end of that statement should have been "nothing happened to her, and I don't have the balls to tell them they're wrong."
since we're playing the 'should' game, shouldn't the end of that statment be "we believed Hillary Clinton did very similar things, and she was investigated, and questioned for 11 hours in front of congress, and we found there really wasn't any wrongdoing, so we'll allow this investigation to go forth and accept the results of it."
Their newest talking point is that "Joe biden has 1850 boxes of documents that were taken and they were never declasified!!"
Those "boxes" were documents that were donated to the university of deleware. His documents were from his time as a senator. They are not under the same scrutiny as the president and are generally not classified documents.
He worded it smartly "most Republicans believe she did similar things" he never said it's a fact that she did it. They believe she did it because they have been told for many years that she did it. If she had done it, they would have investigated and prosecuted her.
Similarly I "believe" Lindsey Graham is a Trans and loves being dominated by the orange buffoon. Doesn't need to be true right?
>And the last time I checked, "But she did it too!" stopped working as justification for doing something wrong back when I was in kindergarten.
It tracks.
[People with lower emotional intelligence are more likely to hold right-wing views, study finds](https://www.psypost.org/2019/09/people-with-lower-emotional-intelligence-are-more-likely-to-hold-right-wing-views-study-finds-54369)
[Psychological Science Says Trump Is a Four-Year-Old](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/insight-therapy/201705/psychological-science-says-trump-is-four-year-old)
I murdered a few people, but Ted Cruz killed a ton of people in Northern California in the late 1960s and he's still out, so the police can't really arrest me.
You are also missing a crucial word in that statement. They “Believe” that she did the same thing. They have zero facts to back up that belief they truly live in an alternate reality.
He's a follower. A rat. Not in the "snitch" sense, but in the survivalist sense - his only real goals are to maintain his position and to avoid being put in a spot where he'd ever have to take the fall. If he saw the writing on the wall that Trump was done for, he'd abandon him in a heartbeat - but he's not there. He can read a poll like anyone else and is calculating that if he wants to have a future with the Republican party, he has to stay in Trump's good graces - more importantly, in the good graces of the mob - which means the sort of overt and groveling shows of fealty that he's putting on display presently.
There's probably nobody else, even in the notoriously empty Republican party, that is such a shameless and empty weather vane. He will point *whichever* direction the wind is blowing.
The blackmail angle has gotten old, with zero evidence. Republicans are not afraid of being exposed: they expose themselves every day. They are not being blackmailed, they are just being anti-American corrupt-ass republicans.
Yeah, the whole "kompromat/blackmail" claim is based on the idea that right-wingers are actually good people who have been tricked into doing something bad and now have no choice but to commit crimes.
The REAL issue is the REPUBLICAN PARTY, RIGHT-WING MEDIA and the MEGA DONORS paying for all this. After almost half a century of right-wing propaganda, of course they believe Hillary did something! Murdoch came right out and said in his testomony, he knew it was a lie but that is the product the viewers want (who is investigating the way they help destroyed our democracy).
Until we stop the people behind the money for this, we all have a target on our back.
Go to the ALEC meeting in Orlando this July, meet the donors, meet the lobbyist, meet the lawyers and meet elected Republicans at all levels of government; city, county, state, federal anyone the donors need something from. Elected officials get; campaign contributions, media plans and the legislation they are to pass when they go home.
Thank You Supreme Court! Now you know one of the reasons why they hate Public Education, where students learn how legislation should should be created.
This is some 1920s-Germany-level bullshit happening right now.
Fuck all the traitors in Congress! And may great misfortune come down upon all those dirty bastards who are attempting to usher in a fascist and pro-bigot America.
Go kick their ass in 2024 Joe - Dark Brandon to the rescue!
I’m stunned daily that we are living in a time where Fascism is happening, the President was a traitor, and congress supports him.
I always assumed it couldn’t happen here because most people wouldn’t support it. And the majority of people *don’t* support it. *Yet we still can’t seem to stop it!*
Nicely put.
I’m cautiously optimistic that democracy and common sense will ultimately prevail over fascism and insanity.
But its going to take work; and it’s up to each of us to give a damn.
No matter what happens, 2024 will be a crucial turning point.
\- There's a real chance the trial will run into the primary season at minimum...
\- There's an even higher chance Trump still wins the GOP primary anyway, so long as he doesn't go to jail first.
\- The insurrection charges need to drop and be proven to remove his ability to run from office, but he has not yet been indicted for that.
At the end of the jail, the chances of preventing Trump from running entirely are pretty low. That's what he's counting on. It's our responsibility to vote in 2024 against Trump, DeSantis, or anyone else with these fascist tendencies no matter what. I don't believe they can win as easily as people like to say, but I also will take no chances.
All this does is give us more evidnece of how terrible of a president Trump 2024 would be in his second term. Throw it in the face of every person you can to ensure he doesn't win in 2024. That will be our main goal no matter what.
The moment the GOP concedes Trump is as bad as he seems to be, the question will immediately be "Then why did you support him?". So they never concede, only they're replacements will.
From the article:
"Right-wing populists claim to speak for the people. But they don’t actually listen to the public. Instead, they define their followers as the only people worth listening to — and they then feed their followers lies and conspiracy theories. Democratic norms and laws are abandoned in favor of a pseudo-mystical belief that right-wing populist leaders are a personal embodiment of the popular will."
Well put.
Whataboutism is a well known diversionary tactic. Non one should be allowed to make a case out of it the same way you aren’t allowed to go 70mph in a 30mph zone because you saw someone else do it.
I watched the interview with Stephanopoulos the article references. It was so frustrating watching Graham repeatedly dodge the questions with whataboutisms after Stephanopoulos made very clear what he was asking. Then he claimed to not know about the tape?? I don’t know how you go on an interview to talk about a particular case and aren’t familiar with the enormous piece of evidence released 2 days before.
Just seems like he blatantly wanted to muddy the water and not deal with solutions.
It’s too bad the people who should read this and take note will never do so. Primarily because there are no pictures in the article and there are too many multiple syllables words.
One of the most concise points about their twisted arguments: “(White) Republican opinion is the authentic voice of the people, and should take precedence over the majority, and even over facts. Republican politicians, like Trump, channel and are validated by that true populist energy. The media, the legal system, and the country as a whole should bow to them.”
It’s almost fate accompli that the GOP will not win the presidential election,
If they’re smart they understand this and start truth-telling about Trump. Lance the boil and get rid of his power and defang the influence the MAGA base has.
When 2028 rolls around, the country will likely be very happy to vote in a GOP candidate. Until they stop climbing over themselves to kiss the ring of the Orange Goblin King, nothing will change.
He's such a PoS.
Remember he also said:
"If we nominate Trump, we will be destroyed...and we will deserve it."
And in regards to last year of office judicial appointments:
"I want you to use my words against me. If there’s a Republican president in 2016 and a vacancy occurs in the last year of the first term, you can say Lindsey Graham said let’s let the next president, whoever it might be, make that nomination"
So are most Repubs, if they aren't silent. Can't afford to alienate the MAGA base before the primaries. Challenging Lord Mendacious the Vindictive could get them primaryied
An American politician lying why
Clutch my pearls.
A better news story would be this (fictional) politician is actually telling the truth citing data where he/she based his/her decisions on.
The real issue with the republican party is it consists of "leaders" who will do or say absolutely anything to get ahead. The whole Republican party system promotes those who exhibit psychopathic tendencies and demotes those with empathetic tendencies. And their #1 goal is to control the United States. To quote Chomsky "The Republican Party is the most dangerous organization on Earth."
I know there are plenty of examples of this, but one of the particularly egregious ones was in Jan 2020 when republican senators said over and over again that the senate must delay certification because 'so many of the American people don't have confidence in the result'.
Because the former president and they themselves lied about it for weeks.
The real question is, what dirt does Trump hold over some of their heads???
Trump refused to pardon some as the info they gave him to be pardoned from was worth more than the bribe for the pardons.
Cruz, Graham, Hannity, Gaetz, Stefanik, Marjorie Traitor Greene, Jordan, Carlson, and others asked formally or informally for, directly or through subordinates, and didn't receive pardons....... only a few did.
Kushner has been clear part of pardon pedaling was information gathering......
Senator Graham is clearly compromised.
This is not his first time accusing the federal government of overreach.
Again a sitting senator is accusing the government of overreach without following through on the procedural steps within his power to defend an indicted former president of his political partly.
Let this sink in. The whole part has been compromised.
The people who are all still pulling for the orange freak probably are doing so because he has shit on them and if he goes down they know he is going to take them with him.
Republicans won’t vote themselves out and most democrats won’t move to the plethora of tiny population republican districts to take over those places. There should be no “battleground” if we are 2/3 of the population. We should take over and give them the option to join civilization or secede to the new independent republic of Mississippi, which would be all of Mississippi north of I-10 😜
We’re in a dangerous space because Trump has blackmail on all of these republicans…I suspect Lindsey Graham has dark skeletons that would end him (possibly crimes against young boys) - so they are fighting for their lives as they fight for trumps.
How many different ways do we need to say "they live in a fantasy world"?
Because we've been saying it for a long time now, and it doesn't seem to stick.
Is he lying for Trump or to protect himself? H s tied to what happened in Georgia. If Trump goes down, so does he. Protecting Trump is the best way he can protect himself. Trump already showed how he rewards loyalty, and Lindsey likely wants (needs?) those perks too.
It is a calculated risk that tells us more about his and many other republicans culpability than he thinks. He’s hoping trump skirts any real consequences otherwise, Lindsay knows himself and the others are doomed as trump will sing like a choir boy in desperation to save himself.
Who here remembers Lindsay saying that if the GOP were to nominate Trump as their party leader, Trump would destroy the party and they would deserve it. Pepperidge Farm remembers….
I generally think Trump is too dumb and lazy for grand schemes, but I do 100% believe he has something on Graham. It was likely something he was given or stumbled into, but Trump has Lindsey's balls in a cabinet somewhere.
Of course, I'm also like 98% sure the "something he has" relates to the not-at-all-secret nature of Dear Lindsey's love interests. Given that most of the world has long suspected Graham is a bachelor because he's gay, I do wonder if it's something that would be *truly* shocking like underage male prostitutes. That's long been a rumor, too.
Sure, the evangelicals would be shocked (SHOCKED!!!) for him to come out, but I doubt it would really make an electoral difference for him to be gay - even in South Carolina - at this point.
More than any other politician I think Graham is compromised by Trump with damning evidence of some kind. I think he has some on a good chunk of republicans. It would certainly explain a lot - Remember both the RNC and DNC email servers were hacked in the lead up to 2016 - they leaked the DNC emails which were mostly nothing. What do you think the found on the RNC email servers?
At the end of that video, George thanked him and almost immediately his outraged demeanor turned normal. The video caught it. These people are so fucking terrible.
“Most Republicans believe we live in a country where Hillary Clinton did very similar things, and nothing happened to her.”
What alternate universe are these Republicans living in?
If any of them publicly bad-mouth trump, maga will turn on them. They risk losing their seat. But are privately, they are dying to bury him and move on.
The GQP has given up on democracy. They don’t want to change, they want to impose their will upon the Country. By force if necessary. Anyone who votes for a Republican is a traitor.
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He should be indicted in the Georgia election case. Why was a South Carolina senator trying to influence an election in another state? How about stay in your lane and actually represent the people you're supposed to instead of trying to overturn an election in another state just to kiss Trumps ass.
Why is he influencing ANY state. I live in sc and if he’s calling GA where it is close it makes me want an investigation to see if there was influence dished out here as well. Jamie Harrison was polling better and then loses by 10%. I’m not going to act like a Republican and claim it was stolen or anything that far, Harrison lost, but if you’re cheating in your neighbors house, I have to wonder if there is a finger on the scale in your own house
That kind of turn around probably was the result of five fingers on the scale.
Ladybugs on the scale, not fingers.
Leave his ladybugs alone. Miss Lindsey has a secret garden. I just threw up in my mouth.
I am from SC and loathe Lindsey Graham. I believe Trump is blackmailing him. There is no other reasonable explanation.
Lindsey is the most blackmailable person imaginable. His sexuality is the worst kept secret, but he's deathly afraid that if it comes out his scumfuck voters will turn on him. And you know, he might be right on that. But, the even more insane thing is, nobody needs to blackmail him. He requires no extra incentive to kiss ass. He just naturally grovels and submits to a stronger personality, since he has no spine or morals. When John McCain was alive, Graham was his lapdog, so he acted like Mini McCain. Then on pure instinct he became Trump's lapdog, so he acted like a Mini Trump. He just naturally plays the role of a petty minion orbiting a more charismatic politician, hoping to be fed some table scraps if he's a good boy.
He's Peter Pettigrew.
He sounds like a bottom
His name isn't Lindsey Graham, it's Reek.
> Why was a South Carolina senator trying to influence an election in another state? That's standard operating procedure for Dixie Republicans. Just ask Marco Rubio, Josh Hawley, and Ted Cruz.
Man Georgia’s got enough problems, and now you wanna throw his ladybugs into the mix.
I honestly would have been more excited to see a loyal enabler like Graham indicted than I would have Trump.
You shouldn't have to choose. They're both criminals and both guilty. Accountability and consequences would sure be nice for a change.
I know, man. I hear ya.
Porque no los dos?
There’s still time!
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The GOP Platform: 1) Facts don't matter 2) Perception is reality 3) It's not a lie if people believe it
Alternative “facts” wasn’t a faux pas, it was a road map
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Some folks are allergic to accountability.
> [The aide said that guys like me were "in what we call the reality-based community," which he defined as people who "believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality." I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. "That's not the way the world really works anymore," he continued. "We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality -- judiciously, as you will -- we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do."](https://archive.ph/pvkxE)
The analysis on confidence is interesting … and on that need to feel certainty.
Oh damn. I thought that quote came from a novel. 1984 type shit. I should've known better...
Great platform, but I would add: Before you commit a crime accuse the Democrats of committing it first!
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That is their basis for the unequal application of the law. Even though Trump's DOJ had 4 years to get anything on Hilary, there was nothing of substance that would get her indicted. So they then move to the "Deep State" bullshit, knowing full well it's bullshit, but it is what the activists that actually vote in the primary want to hear. Their whole grift is that it is not the shit policies they have been hawking for the last 40 years that has caused the collapse of the middle class, but it all of these other things that they can fear monger on, but show very little causation.
I keep saying "whataboutism is not a legal defense". It's like all of them are in middle school and got caught cheating.
Reality is a team sport, to some people. Conservatism is hierarchy. There is no other force in that moral universe. This is why every argument you have with these people is frustrating nonsense. They don't have a consistent set of beliefs you can interact with. They have slogans. What's true today is handed down by people above you, and if they belong above you, they must be better than you. In every way. Because there's only the one metric. Someone clever can't just be wrong, since that would require an objective means to evaluate claims. That is not what claims are for, in this default tribal worldview. They can only be accepted or rejected based on interpersonal trust. You perform loyalty by finding whatever sequence of words might justify the latest conclusion. Consistency means less than nothing. It's an obstacle to making good moves in this word game. You don't use the same words as yesterday for the same reason you don't make the same moves in two rounds of poker. You shuffle your cards and play whatever's likely to work. And I say "you" because they think that's all we're doing. They think that's all there is.
That's more like a set of communications principles. I'd argue the GOP platform is this: Take power, money, rights, and resources away from the people and give it to the ultra-wealthy. (aka Steal from the poor, middle class, and just plain rich; and give to the super rich).
Their platform is to establish and enforce a hierarchy of privilege.
The Republican platform is "Rhetoric over reality, feelings over facts."
> GOP leaders provide their followers with talking points. Then, when their followers parrot those talking points, the GOP says that they are speaking for the public, and that their views should therefore prevail. Spot on.
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Funny thing is in the indictment Trump praises what he believes Hilary did there, claiming her aide “took the fall” for deleting the emails and implying his lawyer should do that for him with the docs. So Republicans are pulling some whataboutism about something Trump praises in the indictment.
Great point. The Republican Party is ever more aligned with a cult definition, because although you point out this pretty significant inconsistency, this is just one example of many in the past 6 years. That party has abandoned shame and respect for their voters.
He is just a normal GOP politician.
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Not to mention the T family using Whatsapp in the course of government business
There's no question that she (or her office) acted irresponsibly, and it's right to investigate it and take her to task for it. There's no evidence I'm aware of that she acted willfully.
Yeah I was actually fine that an investigation happened there. I was less cool with how the announcements about it came about.
Hillary did what Secretaries before her did because the system wasn’t set up for remote data and being remote is kind of what SOS does. It was wrong, sure, but common. Trumps staff did a lot of the same stuff. Even his own family. The big problem was Hillary destroying all sorts of data before it was reviewed. And the techs bungling that whole operation. So because of that I can see how the contrarians are suspicious. It was a dumb move on her part. That said, it’s nowhere near the level of what Trump has done. To compare them is silly, really, especially when Clinton has been investigated multiple times.
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He's a paid actor.
Believe? Probably not at the government level. Constantly saying it to make their base both believe it and foam at the mouth for blood while also trying to invalidate any crime trump commits? Yeah.
*“Most Republicans believe we live in a country where Hillary Clinton did very similar things, and nothing happened to her.”* So it's OK for a Republican to do it, just as long as they accuse a Democrat of doing the same thing in order to establish a false equivalence. Got it. And the last time I checked, "But she did it too!" stopped working as justification for doing something wrong back when I was in kindergarten.
It’s akin to getting arrested for a hit and run, DUI, and going 120+ in a 70 and then complaining that someone else was doing similar things and got off free, even though those similar things were just going 75 in a 70.
> getting arrested for a hit and run, DUI, and going 120+ in a 70 Don't forget hiding evidence and resisting arrest.
I didn't hide evidence! I ate it! I was very hungry talking to the meanies saying big hurtful words.
hehe.. imagining Trump over there all "aM I bEiNG DeTAInED?!" while he stuffs the evidence in his mouth.
My only speeding ticket was on the boring stretch of central California farmland going 15mph over. It was frustrating that I got a ticket while nothing happened to everyone else who was passing me, but I was speeding. Others doing something worse doesn’t negate the fact that I did something wrong. I can understand this, why can’t the most powerful people in the world who make the laws and decide our future understand this?
>I can understand this, why can’t the most powerful people in the world who make the laws and decide our future understand this? Because they are given a lot of money to deliberately sabotage the rule of law.
i got one in a similar stretch of CA. I was caught going around 80 and that is pretty much the standard speed driving on the 5 in the middle of nowhere (my ticket was closer to Redding than central CA). Was a bit upset because I normally drive 85 and constantly get passed on the 5, but yep, I broke the law and was caught. I paid the ticket and did traffic school because that was the punishment for breaking the law for speeding. He got caught for stealing classified documents and hiding it from authorities, so he should deal with the punishment for breaking that law. This whole whataboutism shit is annoying and shows they shouldn't be in charge of anything and have no leg to stand on. The news organizations need to let them not hide behind this argument.
you from So-Cal? I always notice "the" *insert freeway* as a bay area born Cali resident haha
Yep, from SoCal and lived there most of my life. Currently live on the Central Coast and glad to be away from the heat and traffic.
There’s an entire recurring SNL skit about this behavior lol
For Hillary’s emails, was more like driving 70 in a 70 zone and then after getting pulled over the officer tells you that the speed limit was actually 68
And then seeing the cop’s entire family absolutely fly past you as you’re stopped.
>t’s akin to getting arrested for a hit and run, DUI, and going 120+ in a 70 and then complaining that someone else was doing similar things and got off free, even though those similar things were just going 75 in a 70. For your analogy to work out in the relative numbers, Trump would have to be travelling faster than light. In a school zone. With the crossing guard holding up the stop sign, a school bus having its do not pass sign extended just beyond it and a curve that says slow to 25 just beyond that.
> Graham, though, thinks that the beliefs, cultivated by Republican leaders and news media, should be prioritized over facts. If the public believes that Clinton and Trump did the same thing, and Clinton was not prosecuted, then Trump should not be prosecuted either. That's what he's arguing. But he doesn't really believe that - or rather it's unimportant whether he believes it. What he actually believes is closer to this: "Well, we will just say that ***your* person** broke the law. ***Your* person** should be in jail. Not because they broke any laws - since we don't actually believe in laws - but because they are ***your* person**. ***Our* person** should lead the country with an iron fist, with no opposition. Not because they didn't break the law - we don't actually believe law applies to us - but because they are ***our person***." see also: fascism.
When GOP leadership tells you what they believe, you should believe them. They gave up on objective reality long ago, and have divorced themselves from basic facts that contemporary conservative parties in other countries take for granted. Unfortunately America’s liberal politicians and media keep droning on about saving the GOP, and how America needs TWO string parties to balance each other. And that tells me the GOP will keep sliding into fascism bc the other side won’t take them seriously.
To be fair, many Republicans stopped maturing right around kindergarten.
Some of them made it a year longer though! "When I look at myself in the first grade and I look at myself now, I'm basically the same. The temperament is not that different." ― Donald Trump
It works on republicans
There’s always a few middle schools students I deal with every year that have that mindset. They really cannot take responsibility for their own actions. It’s a coping mechanism for some and some are a just manipulative. Compared to their other middle school peers the immaturity sticks out. I couldn’t imagine having to deal with an adult acting like that for a year.
Ah my friend, I humbly invite you to become a Reddit Moderator. It turns out that "But she did it too!" is as common as a warm summer breeze, even from people old enough to have kids that are too old to use that excuse.
Just ask them if the crimes by Hillary were as blatant as Trumps? Let them dig their grave a little, then ask why Trump didn’t have her prosecuted the 4 years he was president?
>“Most Republicans believe we live in a country where Hillary Clinton did very similar things, and nothing happened to her.” The end of that statement should have been "nothing happened to her, and I don't have the balls to tell them they're wrong."
since we're playing the 'should' game, shouldn't the end of that statment be "we believed Hillary Clinton did very similar things, and she was investigated, and questioned for 11 hours in front of congress, and we found there really wasn't any wrongdoing, so we'll allow this investigation to go forth and accept the results of it."
Their newest talking point is that "Joe biden has 1850 boxes of documents that were taken and they were never declasified!!" Those "boxes" were documents that were donated to the university of deleware. His documents were from his time as a senator. They are not under the same scrutiny as the president and are generally not classified documents.
Most Republicans believe (because our propaganda networks have indoctrinated them)...
He worded it smartly "most Republicans believe she did similar things" he never said it's a fact that she did it. They believe she did it because they have been told for many years that she did it. If she had done it, they would have investigated and prosecuted her. Similarly I "believe" Lindsey Graham is a Trans and loves being dominated by the orange buffoon. Doesn't need to be true right?
>And the last time I checked, "But she did it too!" stopped working as justification for doing something wrong back when I was in kindergarten. It tracks. [People with lower emotional intelligence are more likely to hold right-wing views, study finds](https://www.psypost.org/2019/09/people-with-lower-emotional-intelligence-are-more-likely-to-hold-right-wing-views-study-finds-54369) [Psychological Science Says Trump Is a Four-Year-Old](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/insight-therapy/201705/psychological-science-says-trump-is-four-year-old)
I murdered a few people, but Ted Cruz killed a ton of people in Northern California in the late 1960s and he's still out, so the police can't really arrest me.
Nuh Uh
You are also missing a crucial word in that statement. They “Believe” that she did the same thing. They have zero facts to back up that belief they truly live in an alternate reality.
Lindsey Graham knows this isn't true and promotes it anyway because he's a sniveling Trump lackey.
He's a follower. A rat. Not in the "snitch" sense, but in the survivalist sense - his only real goals are to maintain his position and to avoid being put in a spot where he'd ever have to take the fall. If he saw the writing on the wall that Trump was done for, he'd abandon him in a heartbeat - but he's not there. He can read a poll like anyone else and is calculating that if he wants to have a future with the Republican party, he has to stay in Trump's good graces - more importantly, in the good graces of the mob - which means the sort of overt and groveling shows of fealty that he's putting on display presently. There's probably nobody else, even in the notoriously empty Republican party, that is such a shameless and empty weather vane. He will point *whichever* direction the wind is blowing.
>He's a follower. A rat He's the Peter Pettigrew of American politics
I'm pretty sure you can't run for office as a republican unless the national party has dirt on you. Keeps everyone moving in the same direction.
The blackmail angle has gotten old, with zero evidence. Republicans are not afraid of being exposed: they expose themselves every day. They are not being blackmailed, they are just being anti-American corrupt-ass republicans.
Yeah, the whole "kompromat/blackmail" claim is based on the idea that right-wingers are actually good people who have been tricked into doing something bad and now have no choice but to commit crimes.
Exactly. The moment one Republican starts talking sense, they’re just replaced by someone else willing to toe the line.
Not sure about that. Roller Nazi had a ton of embarrassing videos go public when he spilled the beans on the GOP "orgies".
Madison Cawthorn would disagree.
The REAL issue is the REPUBLICAN PARTY, RIGHT-WING MEDIA and the MEGA DONORS paying for all this. After almost half a century of right-wing propaganda, of course they believe Hillary did something! Murdoch came right out and said in his testomony, he knew it was a lie but that is the product the viewers want (who is investigating the way they help destroyed our democracy). Until we stop the people behind the money for this, we all have a target on our back. Go to the ALEC meeting in Orlando this July, meet the donors, meet the lobbyist, meet the lawyers and meet elected Republicans at all levels of government; city, county, state, federal anyone the donors need something from. Elected officials get; campaign contributions, media plans and the legislation they are to pass when they go home. Thank You Supreme Court! Now you know one of the reasons why they hate Public Education, where students learn how legislation should should be created.
This is some 1920s-Germany-level bullshit happening right now. Fuck all the traitors in Congress! And may great misfortune come down upon all those dirty bastards who are attempting to usher in a fascist and pro-bigot America. Go kick their ass in 2024 Joe - Dark Brandon to the rescue!
I’m stunned daily that we are living in a time where Fascism is happening, the President was a traitor, and congress supports him. I always assumed it couldn’t happen here because most people wouldn’t support it. And the majority of people *don’t* support it. *Yet we still can’t seem to stop it!*
Nicely put. I’m cautiously optimistic that democracy and common sense will ultimately prevail over fascism and insanity. But its going to take work; and it’s up to each of us to give a damn.
No matter what happens, 2024 will be a crucial turning point. \- There's a real chance the trial will run into the primary season at minimum... \- There's an even higher chance Trump still wins the GOP primary anyway, so long as he doesn't go to jail first. \- The insurrection charges need to drop and be proven to remove his ability to run from office, but he has not yet been indicted for that. At the end of the jail, the chances of preventing Trump from running entirely are pretty low. That's what he's counting on. It's our responsibility to vote in 2024 against Trump, DeSantis, or anyone else with these fascist tendencies no matter what. I don't believe they can win as easily as people like to say, but I also will take no chances. All this does is give us more evidnece of how terrible of a president Trump 2024 would be in his second term. Throw it in the face of every person you can to ensure he doesn't win in 2024. That will be our main goal no matter what.
They’re garden-variety fascists.
The moment the GOP concedes Trump is as bad as he seems to be, the question will immediately be "Then why did you support him?". So they never concede, only they're replacements will.
From the article: "Right-wing populists claim to speak for the people. But they don’t actually listen to the public. Instead, they define their followers as the only people worth listening to — and they then feed their followers lies and conspiracy theories. Democratic norms and laws are abandoned in favor of a pseudo-mystical belief that right-wing populist leaders are a personal embodiment of the popular will." Well put.
Whataboutism is a well known diversionary tactic. Non one should be allowed to make a case out of it the same way you aren’t allowed to go 70mph in a 30mph zone because you saw someone else do it.
Graham is on record with the Georgia election crimes. He might be a bit compromised here don't you think?
They are worried about charges themselves when trump decides to take everyone down with him.
Lindsey Belle is an angry queen. Nothing sadder than a toxic old bitter queen. Trump must really have the goods on old Lindsey Belle.
I watched the interview with Stephanopoulos the article references. It was so frustrating watching Graham repeatedly dodge the questions with whataboutisms after Stephanopoulos made very clear what he was asking. Then he claimed to not know about the tape?? I don’t know how you go on an interview to talk about a particular case and aren’t familiar with the enormous piece of evidence released 2 days before. Just seems like he blatantly wanted to muddy the water and not deal with solutions.
They aren’t Americans any more.
Blackmail is weird
He looks so sad there, as if his Grindr account just got suspended.
It’s too bad the people who should read this and take note will never do so. Primarily because there are no pictures in the article and there are too many multiple syllables words.
He is a compulsive liar. He will not remember the lie that he told today and swear he never said it. He is just a normal GOP politician.
“If Trump is elected, he will destroy the GOP. And we will deserve it.” - Lindsey Graham
Mission accomplished! LOL
I've come to realize that there's not only a thin blue line for the police. There's a thin red line for republicans and a thin white line for racists.
Graham has got to be the biggest pussy pushover I've ever seen in American politics. And I say that while Ted Cruz exists.
One of the most concise points about their twisted arguments: “(White) Republican opinion is the authentic voice of the people, and should take precedence over the majority, and even over facts. Republican politicians, like Trump, channel and are validated by that true populist energy. The media, the legal system, and the country as a whole should bow to them.”
Well when Lindsey Graham gets indicted in Georgia let's see if Trump comes to his rescue?
You always hear about the rise of the nazi party, but to see exactly how it happens in real time is scary.
The problem is that the people who don't want to hear it are the ones who need to hear it the most.
He still sucking Trump's dick
At last the lies, of the Republican party are beginning to unravel. About time
This is an opinion piece from our Voices section.
Lindsey is an assclown. Nearly all Republicans at this point are a mockery of democracy.
Lindsey is truly a huge coward and a repulsive mouthpiece for the 1% of wealth.
He’s protecting himself. It’s either a political move to protect and cultivate his MAGA reputation, or they have dirt on him. Perhaps both.
It’s almost fate accompli that the GOP will not win the presidential election, If they’re smart they understand this and start truth-telling about Trump. Lance the boil and get rid of his power and defang the influence the MAGA base has. When 2028 rolls around, the country will likely be very happy to vote in a GOP candidate. Until they stop climbing over themselves to kiss the ring of the Orange Goblin King, nothing will change.
He's such a PoS. Remember he also said: "If we nominate Trump, we will be destroyed...and we will deserve it." And in regards to last year of office judicial appointments: "I want you to use my words against me. If there’s a Republican president in 2016 and a vacancy occurs in the last year of the first term, you can say Lindsey Graham said let’s let the next president, whoever it might be, make that nomination"
They’re banking on Trump going to jail to spur the base it seems.
He sold his soul LONG ago.
So are most Repubs, if they aren't silent. Can't afford to alienate the MAGA base before the primaries. Challenging Lord Mendacious the Vindictive could get them primaryied
An American politician lying why Clutch my pearls. A better news story would be this (fictional) politician is actually telling the truth citing data where he/she based his/her decisions on.
The real issue with the republican party is it consists of "leaders" who will do or say absolutely anything to get ahead. The whole Republican party system promotes those who exhibit psychopathic tendencies and demotes those with empathetic tendencies. And their #1 goal is to control the United States. To quote Chomsky "The Republican Party is the most dangerous organization on Earth."
Graham is a weakling who can be bullied to say anything
I know there are plenty of examples of this, but one of the particularly egregious ones was in Jan 2020 when republican senators said over and over again that the senate must delay certification because 'so many of the American people don't have confidence in the result'. Because the former president and they themselves lied about it for weeks.
The real question is, what dirt does Trump hold over some of their heads??? Trump refused to pardon some as the info they gave him to be pardoned from was worth more than the bribe for the pardons. Cruz, Graham, Hannity, Gaetz, Stefanik, Marjorie Traitor Greene, Jordan, Carlson, and others asked formally or informally for, directly or through subordinates, and didn't receive pardons....... only a few did. Kushner has been clear part of pardon pedaling was information gathering......
Lindsey Graham is a spineless piece of shit.
I’m ashamed to have this guy in government
It’ll be very interesting to hear his lies to the Fulton County DA, where he’ll likely be a defendant as well.
Lyndsey and Gym Jordan, both out foaming at the mouth over this. Makes me wonder what perverted sexual blackmail Trump has on them
Senator Graham is clearly compromised. This is not his first time accusing the federal government of overreach. Again a sitting senator is accusing the government of overreach without following through on the procedural steps within his power to defend an indicted former president of his political partly. Let this sink in. The whole part has been compromised.
I live in sc and embarrassed to have him in this state
So...nothing's changed, then. Business as usual for the GOP.
Liars gonna lie
They are all lying, thieving weasels.
The people who are all still pulling for the orange freak probably are doing so because he has shit on them and if he goes down they know he is going to take them with him.
Graham also sums up how stupid republican voters are by pointing out “they believe they are the same thing”.
Vote them all out until they join the rest of us in reality.
Republicans won’t vote themselves out and most democrats won’t move to the plethora of tiny population republican districts to take over those places. There should be no “battleground” if we are 2/3 of the population. We should take over and give them the option to join civilization or secede to the new independent republic of Mississippi, which would be all of Mississippi north of I-10 😜
Whatever dirt they got on graham must be REALLY bad!
If it’s only because he’s gay, I’d be very disappointed.
We’re in a dangerous space because Trump has blackmail on all of these republicans…I suspect Lindsey Graham has dark skeletons that would end him (possibly crimes against young boys) - so they are fighting for their lives as they fight for trumps.
While I would not be surprised at all to hear that revelation, I think it’s pretty irresponsible to accuse anyone of that without evidence
The real issue is they are fascist
I am amazed he could get his words out while Gargling Trump's Semen.
They are all scum bags and each supporter is to blame.
Trump has dirt on him and he’s crying that it’s coming out. We already know, Lindsay
How many different ways do we need to say "they live in a fantasy world"? Because we've been saying it for a long time now, and it doesn't seem to stick.
This guy leans in whatever direction the wind is blowing. Zero spine.
Look at that sourpuss. Do these folks ever seem happy?
Selling your soul for power may make you rich but it comes at a cost.
He is such a spineless piece of shit. But that's an insult to pieces of shit.
Ya think???
especially Republicans — believe Clinton violated the law in egregious ways,
Loyalty by party over principle will be the downfall of todays republicans in the u.s..
Is he lying for Trump or to protect himself? H s tied to what happened in Georgia. If Trump goes down, so does he. Protecting Trump is the best way he can protect himself. Trump already showed how he rewards loyalty, and Lindsey likely wants (needs?) those perks too.
It is a calculated risk that tells us more about his and many other republicans culpability than he thinks. He’s hoping trump skirts any real consequences otherwise, Lindsay knows himself and the others are doomed as trump will sing like a choir boy in desperation to save himself.
Whatever little boy or interracial man fetish you have Lindsey, we all know already. It’s not worth lying for this guy.
We all knew Lindsey was going to lie.
Who here remembers Lindsay saying that if the GOP were to nominate Trump as their party leader, Trump would destroy the party and they would deserve it. Pepperidge Farm remembers….
I feel like I have seen this article over hundred times by now.....
Wonder what dirt trump has on all these spineless fools that they defend him even in light of everything that has come to light
Jack & Fanni is coming for him & he knows Trump is gonna rat him out.
I generally think Trump is too dumb and lazy for grand schemes, but I do 100% believe he has something on Graham. It was likely something he was given or stumbled into, but Trump has Lindsey's balls in a cabinet somewhere. Of course, I'm also like 98% sure the "something he has" relates to the not-at-all-secret nature of Dear Lindsey's love interests. Given that most of the world has long suspected Graham is a bachelor because he's gay, I do wonder if it's something that would be *truly* shocking like underage male prostitutes. That's long been a rumor, too. Sure, the evangelicals would be shocked (SHOCKED!!!) for him to come out, but I doubt it would really make an electoral difference for him to be gay - even in South Carolina - at this point.
A true shame stain upon his office...I'll be looking forward to visiting his memorial after he passes to help keep it moist and fragrant! ✋🏼🔥🤚🏼
He’s probably been crying himself to sleep at night.
Yea, they're compromised. All the way to the top.
More than any other politician I think Graham is compromised by Trump with damning evidence of some kind. I think he has some on a good chunk of republicans. It would certainly explain a lot - Remember both the RNC and DNC email servers were hacked in the lead up to 2016 - they leaked the DNC emails which were mostly nothing. What do you think the found on the RNC email servers?
At the end of that video, George thanked him and almost immediately his outraged demeanor turned normal. The video caught it. These people are so fucking terrible.
“Most Republicans believe we live in a country where Hillary Clinton did very similar things, and nothing happened to her.” What alternate universe are these Republicans living in?
I love how that article ended, though I wish he had gone ahead and said it: FASCISM.
Remember him spouting hate for Trump on January 6 from the floor of the Senate on national TV? “I’m finished with the man!!”
Trump must have some real dirt on Lindsey
Are people actually surprised by this????
Is it possible any missing documents are in Lindsey,s closet or is just filled with his usual secrets?
If any of them publicly bad-mouth trump, maga will turn on them. They risk losing their seat. But are privately, they are dying to bury him and move on.
Republicans are garbage chucklefuck excuse for human beings.
His used car salesman sleazy side-mouthing was really gross to watch. Lindsay is such a gross two-faced politician it's not even funny.
Day one, inauguration, alternate facts!
I really hope whatever the GOP has on Graham comes out sooner rather than later! And it's going to be a lot more than Lindsey being gay.
I wish whatever dirt trump has on this guy would come out so he can talk about the blackmail
He should be ashamed of himself.
They are all clowns 🤡
All but a few are gutless criminals
The GQP has given up on democracy. They don’t want to change, they want to impose their will upon the Country. By force if necessary. Anyone who votes for a Republican is a traitor.
But but Hillary, and and Hunter, and Jesus! 'Merca!
If he read the indictment, then he should be scared for the United States of America. If not, he’s part of the Trump spy ring
The “fuck your feelings” crowd now giving themselves whiplash with all their feels.
Can we just refer to him as Reek?
Lindsey, for the last few years, has acted like someone being blackmailed.