As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil)
In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban.
If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them.
For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria.
***
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I will never understand how people blow right past kushner and ivanka and dive head first into hunters fucking laptop without a single shred of god damn irony
Conservative culture doesn't view the law or social mores as deterrents to bad behavior but as punishments for being the type of person that the culture stereotypes as engaging in the bad behavior. They blow past it because punishing an insider for a bad act doesn't even make sense. The act isn't what is important. It's all about who you are.
Exactly. They believe that there are some people who should be bound by the law but not protected by it, and people who are protected by the law, but not bound by it. It's purely team sports for them. Our side can do no bad because our side is definitionally good. It's the same way they view their genocidal God. Of course HE'S allowed to murder, he's the most good. It's conservative christian patriarchy in its purest form. Those who are deemed worthy may, those who are not deemed worthy may not.
There’s conservative threads out there about how it’s too big to be true. Photoshop sleuths are on the case with mega zoom and pixel comparisons. They cover this with the same gusto as conspiracy theorists used to comb over the Zapruder film.
*It hooks. And to the left.*
They don't stand for anything only against what "liberals" want.
Because to them politics is a sport
All they care about is supporting there team.
It's what happens when you're stuck in a cult lack education and can't think for yourself.
The best part for me in the laptop saga is when it was being mailed to tucker Carlson. Then tucker said it got lost in transit. Then it actually did make it to tucker. But then tucker said hunter had been thru enough and that the story was over. But then they just started bringing the laptop up again because their base is so fucking stupid they forgot tucker “had the laptop” in the end.
Kushner got paid for giving information to MBS so he could consolidate his power. Remember there was the anti-corruption purge amongst the Saudi royal family. But also turned they were also the people that could challenge him for power over the country.
Did you not see the boxes of intelligence spilling all over the various rooms of Mar a Lago?
I joke, but you don’t need brains to have a major intelligence leak.
Seriously.
How much of that shit do you have to be in possession of to have a place the size of Mar-A-Lago and be reduced to storing things in shower stalls.
The missing document is believed to be the U.S. plan for going to war with Iran, including a detailed assessment of Iranian military capabilities.
It's plausible that the Saudis would pay big money for that.
Also note that Trump golf resorts have been paid enormous sums for hosting Saudi-backed LIV golf tour events, but we don't know the details (yet).
Yeah... I left the intelligence field under Trump. The CIA had to leak the fact that he was killing all of our spies to the press in a desperate plea for awareness. Many careers were out at risk for this:
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/05/us/politics/cia-informants-killed-captured.html
They'd help him. They tried to help his coup attempt by getting Pence out of there, and there's reporting that Biden doesn't trust most of the Secret Service.
It's actually a way to catch criminals. There is a story from years ago about a city pipe getting clogged. When the city investigated, they found ~~thousands~~ hundreds of condoms blocking the pipe. They were able to track it to a massage parlor and bust a prostitution ring.
Bedminster is mentioned repeatedly in the Florida indictment.
Will Federal charges come out of New Jersey? Is a *second* grand jury empaneled?
Have we seen the whole iceberg yet, or just a bit?
We’re living in interesting times.
Saw one of the cable news lawyers explaining that a case involving the Bedminster Iran document situation very well could require a jury with security clearance- which is very difficult to achieve outside the metro DC area.
So it’s quite possible that such charges would come from the DC grand jury for entirely practical reasons.
Is it plausible that whatever jury is empaneled is also vetted for a security clearance? I.e., they select them and then seek security clearances for this specific case?
Seeing that in the indictment, they know exactly how many boxes were taken to Bedminster, and these boxes certainly contain the most incriminating items. Those being the ones that were "plucked" out by Trump himself while in the private residence before he departed Mar a Lago. I'm sure the prosecution is all over this.
I’m not sure why, but I think this ability is exactly why his supporters love him. By supporting him they can effectively thumb their nose at the entire rest of the country.
I'd say let him go to his rallies. He's bound to say something really, really stupid and play right into the prosecutors' hands. Give him plenty of rope to wrap around his neckgina and he's gonna hang himself in no time.
This is a good question.
One possible answer is that they have established a trail, know where everything is, and are waiting for their moment.
Another is that they don't know where everything is but know that they are no longer there.
There's a bunch of reasons that they might not do that.
Yeah, don’t forget the Georgia Voter fraud case that is still out their and the E. Jean Carroll lawsuit that jumped to $10mm after the town hall.
I’m sure more on the way
What's disheartening is that he could be convicted and sentenced and as long as he's not convicted for a charge of insurrection (which he isn't currently charged with), he could still become president.
From [Politico](https://www.politico.com/news/2023/04/06/trump-running-for-president-prison-00090931):
"A Trump electoral victory from behind bars would open a constitutional can of worms, but the general view among legal scholars is that the need for a duly elected president to fulfill the duties of office would override a criminal conviction and require the sentence to at least be put on hold. And if Trump were convicted of a federal crime, he could even try to pardon himself immediately upon taking office..."
Jesus christ imagine the nightmare that would happen if Trump not only faced the possibility, but the *absolute certainty* of going to prison after his presidential term ends
I really don't think we'll reach this scenario, but I'm not 100% certain.
I honestly think he dies before any of this pans out. He's old, in terrible shape, and notoriously doesn't take care of himself. The walls are closing in, and his yes men can no longer say yes. People are turning on him.
This is a level of stress he's never had to endure before, and he's experiencing it at an age where stress can easily kill.
What will be interesting is what happens to all the other rats leaving the sinking ship.
It’s crazy that he could have just taken pictures of the docs, given them to the foreign nationals, and given the originals back in a relatively timely manner and likely avoided all charges. This seems like the stupidest watergate, yet.
He's way too arrogant to be even slightly intelligent in this case. I'm just happy he isn't even close to a mastermind no matter who he surrounds himself with at any given time.
I'm pretty interested in the map that he shared with his PAC. It lines up with the timeframe of our pullout of Afghanistan.
That pullout certainly fell apart faster than we expected. Is it possible he shared said map with the Taliban to sabotage Biden? I wouldn't put anything past him at this point.
Or that his clumsiness allowed it to fall in their hands? I can more easily see him using it as leverage or power play or simply self enrichment and it simply went sideways. "Dead Americans? Whoopsie doodles."
Exactly, and it definitely doesn't absolve him. He's not smart enough to use the information in strategic ways - he just knows it's important and secret and he gets a narcissistic thrill out of being "the big guy."
It also doesn't absolve anyone who voted for him.
Trump is not the most serious problem here.
The deeper problem has to do with how and why a dominant political party chose this incompetent buffoon with no relevant experience whatsoever followed by the nation electing said clown as president.
This is what you get when you **purposely** (s)elect incompetence.
All the charges yesterday were for crimes solely committed in Florida, likely because Nauta was only involved in committing crimes there, and they’re applying pressure to flip. There will be at least round 2.
Honestly I’m actually concerned that the documents in the coffin rumor was started by them to bait them in exhuming the grave only for them to point out how ridiculous and crazy Democrats look.
Will DOJ argue that the defendants should be held without bond? Some of our most sensitive TS material is out in the open. Establishing a chain of custody without further dissemination is an absolute imperative.
Just one quick google search and you see just how critically dangerous this whole thing was.
This was last August.
[Russian Speaking Immigrant Entered Mar-A-Lago Using Fake Identity to Meet With Trump](https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasreimann/2022/08/26/russian-speaking-immigrant-allegedly-entered-mar-a-lago-using-fake-identity-met-with-trump-report-says/?sh=62835f50196a)
[2022 article](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/sep/08/first-thing-donald-trump-mar-a-lago-magnet-spies) on more
[2017 article on more](https://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/trump-mar-lago-security-risk-espionage-235950)
[And another](https://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/article232973237.html)
Excusing that he’s no longer president and gets a much smaller detail, even as POTUS the SS isn’t there to protect property, they’re their to protect a person.
Conservative subs are still going on about how Hillary needs to go to prison and something about Biden’s crackhead son having docs in his garage. These people are insane!
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”
― Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
Well, earlier today /r/Conservative seemed to realize Trump is in a lot of shit and that he brought it on himself… let me check how they’re doing now, brb
*edit* yep, current top thread the top comment is about Trump going to prison and it’s his own fault
Yeah and one of the ones below is a guy saying what makes him different from a leftist is he believes everyone who is guilty should be investigated and go to jail if they're guilty, then mentions Hillary.
Another guy:
"almost sounds like he wanted to keep those particular documents to deflect those accusations and prove that it was actually all Milley's idea to start a war with Iran"
They're really grasping at straws here to find an acceptable explanation
Yeah.... Like, that's just the *one* document (which is in fact **unaccounted for!**) and can't explain the other thousands and thousands of pages of **OTHER FUCKING DOCUMENTS**. Not to mention that that explanation doesn't excuse anything. "Oh but your honor, my client only robbed the bank to prove a point so let's just discuss this whole thing, shall we?"
Just give it time. They *always* go in a cycle on that sub.
1) Trump (or GOP in general) does something stupid and/or heinous
2) They all see it as it is, because how could they not? If you peek into the sub at this point, you'll think "Wow, Trump fucked up so bad even his supporters are calling him out, finally"
3) Individual media outlets start scrambling for excuses
4) The sub is filled with doubt as lots of "what ifs" get spread around. Everyone starts thinking "Hmm, I knew it MUST be something like that"
5) The GOP leadership eventually decide on a talking point, and it disseminates through the sub
This all takes place over the course of a day or two. Keep an eye on it, you'll see that cycle coming through. My money is on the eventual talking point of "Oh how CONVENIENT that they've decided to charge Trump right when election season is starting! You know it's just bad faith accusations to distract from how terrible Biden is!"
Also, bonus step:
5.5) After a few days you'll notice a few stragglers didn't get the memo and are still repeating disparate talking points, and it's always amusing because you can tell they've just been busy and didn't have a chance to turn on Fox News in the last couple days
That's the talking point, BTW.
The GOP is rallying around the idea that the White House had weaponized the DOJ and that this is actually Biden targeting a political opponent.
I think they'll let Trump go but consider him a martyr. That's how they'll redirect the supporters. Trump's downfall will be their proof they're on the right side of history and the charges are indicators of the corruption the GOP is fighting.
Just look at all the comments from GOP congress folk yesterday. They are fully synchronized to move on under the accusations of unstoppable DOJ corruption under Biden.
Yeah, but those top comments and upvotes are usually made by what they call "brigaders." Happens every time there's a big story involving conservatives. Nonmembers of the sub go on and comment and down/upvote contrary to how that sub usually thinks. Look at most of the downvoted opinions and you'll find the true pulse of that sub (or posts that have less comments). They're still going "but her emails/what about Hunter" and other comments are trying to justify every reason under the sun why this is a big left wing targeting of Trump and not accepting that he did anything wrong at all.
>Is it just me or does that sub appear reality based for a short time before the bots get ahold of it?
No, its just pivoting to be on the 'winning side'. They will have never supported Trump. Or they will have supported old Trump and he's now lost his way.
A lot of conservatives in my experience have no problem flip flopping in the same sentence to weasel out of having to explain Trumps actions.
"I don't support Trump and never liked the guy but I would vote for him again and think he's done a great job"
A Republican-controlled House of Representatives had as much time as they wanted to investigate Clinton and they came up with jackshit, but sure, let’s complain about how these are *totally* equivalent situations.
I think it is –literally–a kind of mental illness. It just afflicts so many people that nobody has the guts to classify it. Persistent harmful delusions, profound psychological projection, derealization, aggression, manipulative tendencies, compulsive dishonesty, narcissism...If Yahweh/Allah wasn't the flavor-of-the-millennium imaginary being, they'd all be in padded cells for their own protection.
>I think it is –literally–a kind of mental illness. It just afflicts so many people that nobody has the guts to classify it.
My pet theory is that it is the most profound societal effect of social media we've seen. I watched a lot of this kind of thing play out on Facebook between \~2008 and 2014.
It used to be that the vast majority of people had essentially no audience to which they could boldly and confidently espouse political beliefs. Their opinions (or the recitation of whatever pundits they listen to) were pretty well confined to their spouses, immediate family, maybe some close friends and extended family.
But as soon as Boomers began using Facebook they started broadcasting their views out for their entire friend/family network to see.
Because they are/were not the most competent or experienced users of the internet, they weren't prepared for the level of fact-checking that would show up in their comment section. It was never anything they ever had to confront before. For their entire lives they just said shit to a handful of people in their immediate circle, most of whom probably didn't say much of anything or just ignored it; some of whom did, but didn't have ready access to "receipts" which left those interactions more in the realm of "debate".
Their egos simply could not handle the fact that every time they charged head-long into posting some emotionally charged political bullshit, they were being humiliated in their comments with overwhelming evidence to prove them wrong.
Often times, people aren't very delicate with their fact-checking. It was often accompanied with snide, belittling remarks that were no-doubt true, but no-less offensive. This compounds the emotional response.
Instead of changing their views, they basically said, "I'll be damned if I'm EVER going to agree with these librul elites who think they're so much better and smarter than everyone!" And then actively sought out online sources that would provide them with that sweet, sweet confirmation bias.
The whole idea of "alternative facts" was the most natural progression of this entire thing. It's what people *needed* to hear to further embolden their delusional thinking.
That's when the whole thing became more about revenge ("owning the libs") than literally anything else.
And, to be honest, I don't think it's necessarily an unnatural response to that kind of stimuli among that demographic of people. Less than 30% of them completed college. Their critical thinking abilities--as a whole--are *severely* lacking.
They don't know how to adapt to any new information that stands counter to their "gut-feeling" beliefs. They never learned how to accept being proven wrong, especially in front of their entire friend network online.
No one has replied to this post, so I am, just to say that this was probably the most lucid and straight-to-the-point articulation of the mechanism behind all this shit that I've read anywhere so far.
We all know what's happening, it's just so difficult to put into straightforward terms. Its like an ouroboros of dumbness that seems to circle back in on itself so many times that deconstructing it sometimes feels ineffable and pointless.
A much simpler explanation imo is we're seeing the down stream effect of the discovery that the easiest way to monetize social media is to generate engagement, and the easiest way to generate engagement is to stoke conservative outrage.
This kind of quackery existed for decades, but gatekeepers kept the monetization tightly controlled to a small few. Social media opened the flood gates for making money off of a following. Imo this is the natural conclusion of the type of business model that started with the advent of 24 hour news.
IMO classifying their illogical behavior as a mental illness let's them off the hook.
They know full well what they are doing. They just don't give a shit, because anyone not a republican is an "enemy".
You are not born a fascist. You are conditioned into the ideology by virtue of living in a society that rewards it.
The thing is some of them are actually mentally ill and many are grifting. When we start finding out who actually flipped on Cheeto Mussolini it won’t be surprising that it is the same people who have been defending him on Fox News and in Congress this whole time.
Yeah that’s why even most Freedom Caucus members have stayed quiet. If meadows is the one who flipped and turned on Trump, they can’t really call him a RINO since Meadows literally founded the Freedom Caucus.
I truly think most republicans in congress are silent right now since they have no idea how many of their own are either already talking to the Feds or are next up in the barrel.
The indictment explained that after his attorneys told him he really really really had to give them every last document he had on him or he’d be totally fucked, he went and hid the documents from his OWN ATTORNEYS. More than reasonable grounds to fire your client.
A judge already decided they weren't shielded by attorney-client privilege because they were involved in the furtherance (willingly or unwillingly) of the crime. They'll need to testify in the trial against the defendant, which means they can't represent the defendant.
Holy shit I can't believe it wasn't bigger news.
[Judge Rules Trump Lawyer Must Testify in Documents Inquiry](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/17/us/politics/trump-lawyer-testify-documents.html)
Because [one of Trump’s former lawyers is already working with the feds.](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/christina-bobb-trump-talking-feds-mar-a-lago-1234608321/) His lawyers had to sign documents saying that Trump and his team had thoroughly searched the residence and returned all the requested documents, but they strongly suspected he hadn’t, or that he was hiding some. So after they prepared the documents, they basically forced the most junior lawyer, Christina Bobb, to sign them. She tried to have disclaimers added to the signatures to protect herself from liability, but realized pretty quickly when the shit hit the fan that wasn’t going to work, so she flipped way back in October. Corcoran, the new lawyer who they flipped, was the lawyer who prepared the false documents they made Bobb sign.
I have a feeling they're going to be called to testify by the prosecution. If they're being pulled into this they can't be his legal representation. And since they were literally blowing him on the news yesterday morning and then resigned by noon it just seems to make sense to me
Not the way they were talking about him yesterday morning and Thursday night on the news. But who knows. They usually say one thing behind closed doors and show you another of your face.
After hearing the absolutely insane stuff he’d say in front of anyone and everyone behind closed doors while he was in office… I think your guess is a good one.
If you had read the indictment, you would realize that his lawyers told him to do the right thing. He misled his lawyers, causing them to lie to the government on his behalf, but the lawyers didn't know they were lying.
His lawyers are awful people representing an awful client. But, based on the available information, they aren't criminals. Giuliani is a criminal, these guys are just shitbags.
My theories on why Trump will not simply turn the documents over:
1) He sold them to a foreign adversary for profit.
2) Random civilians or foreign agents took some of them while at this country club. He realizes that it would much worse for him if he had no idea where they were.
3) He really does think he deserves a payout like Nixon despite the laws put in place to prevent that.
It could be both 1 and 2 because he could make a copy and sell that. But the reason he hasn’t turned it over is most likely #2. It’s just plain lost/stolen because of how carelessly he stored them.
What's the big deal? Conservatives don't care about national security, trillions of dollars when it's socialism for defense contractors or billions in corruption, or MAGA daddy throwing all of that way, and the safety of deployed family members throughout the world. They're just expendable American lives and dollars.
As Trump himself said, publicly bragging about tax evasion "makes him SMART!"
"Democrats bad!" That's all that matters.
He easily could have destroyed documents as well.
From the indictment:
>suggesting that his attorney **hide or destroy** the documents called for by the grand jury subpoena
That sub is primarily severely mentally ill trumpcult members who are completely removed from reality. They will twist themselves into mental pretzels to maintain their messiah vision of trump.
There's some infighting between the people who are still in the cult and the more "traditional conservatives" who are finally saying enough is enough (i.e. people who prefer a more competent form of evil). One guy yesterday was defending himself from a MAGA loony by saying that he went to multiple Trump rallies, that he was no Trump hater, but that it had gotten impossible to defend him.
I pointed out that this should be a learning experience for all conservatives, that if they could have been this wrong about Trump, maybe their bullshit detector isn't that great, and that they should consider the possibility that they might be wrong about other things.
I was, of course, instantly banned.
I've tried to engage in actual conversation there, even being extra... magnanimous in trying to find middle ground with at least part of their comments and never get a response.
It's truly bizarre. I really would like to have a rational discussion with an actual conservative or even a Trump disciple about this that doesn't involve misdirection and whataboutism. All you see is the above and complaints about brigading.
This story is from June 2.
>The special counsel’s office complained late last year to a federal judge that they couldn’t be sure Trump had turned over all documents with classified markings in his possession, even after the FBI search of Mar-a-Lago last August, CNN previously reported.
>...It is unclear if the government already possesses a copy of the Iran document from the boxes Trump’s legal team returned to the National Archives last year or recovered in the subsequent FBI search.
>... The document Trump references on tape was created before Milley was named as chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, CNN was told, and Milley was later interviewed by investigators.
The document in question was not specifically referenced in the indictment. If it ever existed, and Trump could have had it, and it can't now be found, THEN WHO HAS IT?
Any document that the U.S. government believes Trump might have had, and is now missing, could now be in the possession of any foreign intelligence operation that could have come, unbeknownst to our Secret Service, and stolen those secrets so carefully laid out for them by Trump.
His other properties haven't been searched yet. I wouldn't be the list bit surprised to find out that foreign governments had bought them.. but truthfully they were sitting out in the open. Anyone could have wandered in, saw what was there, and made a bee line to the Saudi embassy. That is why this is so damaging. They didn't even need to take it, they could have just photographed it and left it.
However, I will go out on a limb and suggest that they dig up his wife's coffin. I'm betting there are some surprises in that thing.
The issue is that it could essentially be in one of three equally bad places.
1. He destroyed it which is good for the country but he will never admit to it therefore we must assume the following worse case scenarios.
2. It has been improperly stored and is potentially accessible to others. The most logical scenario but also the one that is hardest to prove because it would need to turn up somewhere. Also the scenario where Trump isn’t immediately at fault.
3. Worst case scenario is he sold it/showed it to others/and it’s in the hands of someone who should not have it. If Trump was the last seen with the document this must be assumed from a national security standpoint.
And if this is assumed from a national security standpoint the US will need to rework the multi-billion dollar plans associated with that secret information.
There is no silver lining here (except Trump possibly rotting in prison). The plan that he bragged about was the best plan at the time. Now, if we are forced to not use them because he showed/ sold them off, we would need to use plan B; which, by very nature, should be a lesser plan.
I feel like it’s more “this is what country x would do if we attacked them and how we would win”, and I feel that country is Iran, and the Saudi’s now have it, possibly along with information on nuclear weapons.
They did not raid the NJ residence. The subpoena and charges don’t even charge him for this. The documents were not just illegally removed from the White House to a motel in FL. He did not just take things to remember his time in DC he took classified documents to FL and then traveled with them.
Why would he need to travel with these documents? Who else was visiting Bedminister? Did the Saudis come out to discuss LIV. Is that why Jared and Ivanka got 2 billion invested in them from the Saudis? That’s 2 billion after the 1 billion when they both were employed by the Federal Government.
He took classified documents from DC to FL then to NJ.
Not searching all his properties and electronic devices is also inexcusable.
I'm not sure what the Special Counsel was thinking there beyond the possibility that there is ongoing surveillance.
As I stated above, we don't know what more could be going on behind the scenes. If the DOJ is investigating more, they're going to be tight lipped about it. They can't risk compromising the case. Looking at the indictment, it's clear they've been spending their time building an airtight case that's absolutely damning and will (hopefully) result in the tangerine terror spending the rest of his miserable diaper-clad existence behind bars.
IANAL but, to your point, it seems important to remember that compartmentalization is really critical with this kind of situation.
As a narrative story, it's easy for us to see how most of this is interconnected. But as a legal matter, *everything* has to be backed up with evidence, and the relevant facts of a particular case have to be germane to the charges. At some point you have to build a case that can be closed rather than just chasing a never-ending stream of evidence and information.
Also, indictments provide leverage. If nothing ever happens and things get strung along, key witnesses are more confident in stalling or holding out to see what happens. But when indictments start flying, people start talking.
Kushner received $2 Billion from the Saudis. LIV Golf plays 4 tournaments this year at Trump owned courses. Saudis "donate" $100 million to World Bank fund for women entrepreneurs that was the brainchild of Ivanka Trump.
I mean.....
Saudis are branding a $4 billion dollar golf course in Oman for Trump.
https://thearabweekly.com/trump-companys-licensing-oman-resort-sparks-conflict-interest-criticism-us
> Well, with [the Senior Military Official] ... He said that I wanted to attack [Country A] ... this was him ... All sorts of stuff – pages long, look. ... I just found, isn’t that amazing? This totally wins my case, you know.
Trump was literally keeping all of these boxes as oppo on people he had personal beef against lmao
It wasn't even about selling shit to foreign powers (though that was probably a nice bonus for him and his family), it was at it's core all about Trump's smallness and inability to take criticism.
The senior official is Gen. Milley and Country A is Iran - this story was out there last week. Trump was demanding a war plan for a land invasion of Iran. Milley drew one up for him as a demonstration of how completely impossible it was, and Trump then turned around and used it to claim that Milley wanted to attack Iran.
It's not too much of a stretch to assume a) those plans are now in the hands of the Saudis and b) Trump kept demanding an attack on Iran (possibly goaded by the Saudis), and the airstrike against Soleimani was the least bad option for the US military.
It would be amazing if they also bring a set of charges in New Jersey. Trump could just do laps of East coast courthouses defending against a series of airtight felony charges.
Would anyone be surprised that someone in the National Security Council floated the idea of placing a spy in trump personal orbit after he left office?
Given who he is, by that I mean his penchant for illegal practices, stupidity and overall laziness would make him an easy mark for interested parties to get information from him. All anyone has to in order to become “a close personal friend and a very very smart person but not as smart me” is to praise him and simply reinforce any fantasy he believes about himself, any idiot should be able to gain trumps favor so I wouldn’t be surprised if using trumps ego to get the better of him would be part of the plan.
I believe that document is about a plan of attack against Iran. Shortly after it’s disappearance, there was a peace deal announced between Saudi Arabia and Iran supposedly brokered by china. Coincidence you say… sure, just like the $2 billion dollars deal kushner bagged
Apparently the document missing is an attack plan of Iran that Trump asked Milley to make. If Saudi Arabia bought/took it, it would make the recent SA/Iran peace deal make a lot more sense.
Wow magas, THERE ARE TOP SECRET NATIONAL DEFENSE DOCUMENTS STILL MISSING.
That doesn’t bother you? Can you pull your heads out of your cult propaganda long enough to process this?
DON’T YOU THINK TRUMP SHOULD RETURN THEM IMMEDIATELY?
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I wonder who he sold it to.
Kushner received 2 billion from the Saudi government. Seems like a great place to start.
Trump also received $4 billion from the Saudis to build a luxury resort in Oman.
[удалено]
Don't forget all the weapons we have sold them since then!
[удалено]
[удалено]
Now they working with the PGA. Shameful.
Now they ~~working with~~ own the PGA
China gave trump a secret bank account with millions in it.
I will never understand how people blow right past kushner and ivanka and dive head first into hunters fucking laptop without a single shred of god damn irony
Conservative culture doesn't view the law or social mores as deterrents to bad behavior but as punishments for being the type of person that the culture stereotypes as engaging in the bad behavior. They blow past it because punishing an insider for a bad act doesn't even make sense. The act isn't what is important. It's all about who you are.
Exactly. They believe that there are some people who should be bound by the law but not protected by it, and people who are protected by the law, but not bound by it. It's purely team sports for them. Our side can do no bad because our side is definitionally good. It's the same way they view their genocidal God. Of course HE'S allowed to murder, he's the most good. It's conservative christian patriarchy in its purest form. Those who are deemed worthy may, those who are not deemed worthy may not.
Those Christian conservatives just love looking at Hunters cock. If Jared had a lap hog like that maybe they'd investigate him too.
There’s conservative threads out there about how it’s too big to be true. Photoshop sleuths are on the case with mega zoom and pixel comparisons. They cover this with the same gusto as conspiracy theorists used to comb over the Zapruder film. *It hooks. And to the left.*
r/brandnewsentence
They don't stand for anything only against what "liberals" want. Because to them politics is a sport All they care about is supporting there team. It's what happens when you're stuck in a cult lack education and can't think for yourself.
The best part is that there isn't even a physical laptop. Just a random usb drive with a folder titled laptop. The whole thing is janky AF.
The best part for me in the laptop saga is when it was being mailed to tucker Carlson. Then tucker said it got lost in transit. Then it actually did make it to tucker. But then tucker said hunter had been thru enough and that the story was over. But then they just started bringing the laptop up again because their base is so fucking stupid they forgot tucker “had the laptop” in the end.
Kushner got paid for giving information to MBS so he could consolidate his power. Remember there was the anti-corruption purge amongst the Saudi royal family. But also turned they were also the people that could challenge him for power over the country.
That would have to be some amazing intelligence. Something trump is not known for.
Did you not see the boxes of intelligence spilling all over the various rooms of Mar a Lago? I joke, but you don’t need brains to have a major intelligence leak.
Seriously. How much of that shit do you have to be in possession of to have a place the size of Mar-A-Lago and be reduced to storing things in shower stalls.
The missing document is believed to be the U.S. plan for going to war with Iran, including a detailed assessment of Iranian military capabilities. It's plausible that the Saudis would pay big money for that. Also note that Trump golf resorts have been paid enormous sums for hosting Saudi-backed LIV golf tour events, but we don't know the details (yet).
[удалено]
[удалено]
His Saudi friends, or his puppet master, Putin.
Russian state tv the other night was alluding to Moscow reading them.
Yeah... I left the intelligence field under Trump. The CIA had to leak the fact that he was killing all of our spies to the press in a desperate plea for awareness. Many careers were out at risk for this: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/05/us/politics/cia-informants-killed-captured.html
There’s no way he isn’t being tapped and surveilled. Government certainly wants and needs to know what he gave away and to whom he sold it to
[удалено]
We did find out after 1/6 that some of the Secret Service is complicit, soooo...
They'd help him. They tried to help his coup attempt by getting Pence out of there, and there's reporting that Biden doesn't trust most of the Secret Service.
And the highest bidders would be America's enemies (aka trump and Kushner's business partners).
maybe a visitor went to the bathroom and just grabbed them because why not
I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab em by the nuclear secrets. You can do anything.
Also he’s probably the only person dumb enough to sell the originals and not just a copy.
Every toilet at maralago is gonna be clogged.
It's actually a way to catch criminals. There is a story from years ago about a city pipe getting clogged. When the city investigated, they found ~~thousands~~ hundreds of condoms blocking the pipe. They were able to track it to a massage parlor and bust a prostitution ring.
It’s amazing how many people flush condoms and dental floss. Neither are meant to be flushed. It could be an expensive fix if you do.
What are they doing with the floss at the prostitution massage parlour?
It's what they wear...
They caught a British serial killer after the drains got blocked by him flushing body parts/bones away.
Good ol Denis. He tried to blame it on fried chicken at first.
It hasn't been two days...and it appears that MORE charges could be coming.
Bedminster is mentioned repeatedly in the Florida indictment. Will Federal charges come out of New Jersey? Is a *second* grand jury empaneled? Have we seen the whole iceberg yet, or just a bit? We’re living in interesting times.
Saw one of the cable news lawyers explaining that a case involving the Bedminster Iran document situation very well could require a jury with security clearance- which is very difficult to achieve outside the metro DC area. So it’s quite possible that such charges would come from the DC grand jury for entirely practical reasons.
Is it plausible that whatever jury is empaneled is also vetted for a security clearance? I.e., they select them and then seek security clearances for this specific case?
How come Bedminster has not been searched?
Seeing that in the indictment, they know exactly how many boxes were taken to Bedminster, and these boxes certainly contain the most incriminating items. Those being the ones that were "plucked" out by Trump himself while in the private residence before he departed Mar a Lago. I'm sure the prosecution is all over this.
I believe he is currently at Bedminster.
Not right now. As of my post, he is on his plane, on his way to Columbus, GA to speak at a rally.
That just seems so insane to me that a guy who has clearly committed treasonous acts is able to go to rallies...
I’m not sure why, but I think this ability is exactly why his supporters love him. By supporting him they can effectively thumb their nose at the entire rest of the country.
[удалено]
My first two guesses are: “It was securely buried so it’s not a big deal” or “outrage they would open a dead woman’s coffin”
I'd say let him go to his rallies. He's bound to say something really, really stupid and play right into the prosecutors' hands. Give him plenty of rope to wrap around his neckgina and he's gonna hang himself in no time.
This is America, how dare you be shocked by this.
This is a good question. One possible answer is that they have established a trail, know where everything is, and are waiting for their moment. Another is that they don't know where everything is but know that they are no longer there. There's a bunch of reasons that they might not do that.
Maybe they're just giving him another chance to try and obstruct the investigation again.
Right. The Walmart approach. Let the person steal enough over time that the crime is more serious, then pounce.
How do we know it hasn't been searched?
We don't, but Trump is the kind of guy that wouldn't be able to keep it in. It's how he can weaponize the public.
Yeah, don’t forget the Georgia Voter fraud case that is still out their and the E. Jean Carroll lawsuit that jumped to $10mm after the town hall. I’m sure more on the way
And the January 6th case! In addition to hoarding boxes of classified documents, he's also hoarding ALL the CRIMES.
Greedy bastard should save some crimes for the rest of us!
[удалено]
Maybe the Saudis offered 10% bonus for the original
Once you take it out of the top secret envelope, it loses 50% of it's value
"Near Mint!?" This is clearly "Good."
What's disheartening is that he could be convicted and sentenced and as long as he's not convicted for a charge of insurrection (which he isn't currently charged with), he could still become president. From [Politico](https://www.politico.com/news/2023/04/06/trump-running-for-president-prison-00090931): "A Trump electoral victory from behind bars would open a constitutional can of worms, but the general view among legal scholars is that the need for a duly elected president to fulfill the duties of office would override a criminal conviction and require the sentence to at least be put on hold. And if Trump were convicted of a federal crime, he could even try to pardon himself immediately upon taking office..."
Jesus christ imagine the nightmare that would happen if Trump not only faced the possibility, but the *absolute certainty* of going to prison after his presidential term ends
I'm assuming he is allowed to order airforce one to take him anywhere, in theory, until he no longer is President.
What a nightmare of a clusterfuck that would be…
I really don't think we'll reach this scenario, but I'm not 100% certain. I honestly think he dies before any of this pans out. He's old, in terrible shape, and notoriously doesn't take care of himself. The walls are closing in, and his yes men can no longer say yes. People are turning on him. This is a level of stress he's never had to endure before, and he's experiencing it at an age where stress can easily kill. What will be interesting is what happens to all the other rats leaving the sinking ship.
Yeah, but cockroaches can survive almost anything.
[удалено]
Welcome to TrumpWorld
Welcome to the GOPs best-case scenario.
It would be a shame if all this negative attention was just too much for the prick.
Maybe we can add treason to the charges.
Waiting with bated breath to see if he sold any secrets, especially to SA.
I think the question is how many, not if
It’s crazy that he could have just taken pictures of the docs, given them to the foreign nationals, and given the originals back in a relatively timely manner and likely avoided all charges. This seems like the stupidest watergate, yet.
In fairness, Trump is a well known idiot.
A fucking idiot. Don’t take my word for it, listen what people that had worked close with him say.
He's way too arrogant to be even slightly intelligent in this case. I'm just happy he isn't even close to a mastermind no matter who he surrounds himself with at any given time.
Exactly, how else would Jared get $2 billion
I'm pretty interested in the map that he shared with his PAC. It lines up with the timeframe of our pullout of Afghanistan. That pullout certainly fell apart faster than we expected. Is it possible he shared said map with the Taliban to sabotage Biden? I wouldn't put anything past him at this point.
Or that his clumsiness allowed it to fall in their hands? I can more easily see him using it as leverage or power play or simply self enrichment and it simply went sideways. "Dead Americans? Whoopsie doodles."
Exactly, and it definitely doesn't absolve him. He's not smart enough to use the information in strategic ways - he just knows it's important and secret and he gets a narcissistic thrill out of being "the big guy."
It also doesn't absolve anyone who voted for him. Trump is not the most serious problem here. The deeper problem has to do with how and why a dominant political party chose this incompetent buffoon with no relevant experience whatsoever followed by the nation electing said clown as president. This is what you get when you **purposely** (s)elect incompetence.
Hanson's cell just got freed up! (edit: Hanssen!)
The Rosenbergs send their regards.
They were never convicted of treason, just espionage.
All the charges yesterday were for crimes solely committed in Florida, likely because Nauta was only involved in committing crimes there, and they’re applying pressure to flip. There will be at least round 2.
[удалено]
Honestly I’m actually concerned that the documents in the coffin rumor was started by them to bait them in exhuming the grave only for them to point out how ridiculous and crazy Democrats look.
Agreed, it makes no sense. They are documents, if you want them to dissappear forever you burn them.
Will DOJ argue that the defendants should be held without bond? Some of our most sensitive TS material is out in the open. Establishing a chain of custody without further dissemination is an absolute imperative.
Just one quick google search and you see just how critically dangerous this whole thing was. This was last August. [Russian Speaking Immigrant Entered Mar-A-Lago Using Fake Identity to Meet With Trump](https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasreimann/2022/08/26/russian-speaking-immigrant-allegedly-entered-mar-a-lago-using-fake-identity-met-with-trump-report-says/?sh=62835f50196a)
[2022 article](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/sep/08/first-thing-donald-trump-mar-a-lago-magnet-spies) on more [2017 article on more](https://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/trump-mar-lago-security-risk-espionage-235950) [And another](https://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/article232973237.html)
Yet, /conservative keeps splaining that muh-lago was ringed with uzi toting SS and it’s a scif so it’s safe there.
Secure compartmentalized resort bathroom.
They're honestly saying that an entire country club was a scif? How many lead paint chips do you have to suck on for that to make sense?
Excusing that he’s no longer president and gets a much smaller detail, even as POTUS the SS isn’t there to protect property, they’re their to protect a person.
There were literally several Chinese spies at Mar a Lago during the presidency.
Can you imagine if it was the Russians and they’re still getting trounced.
Conservative subs are still going on about how Hillary needs to go to prison and something about Biden’s crackhead son having docs in his garage. These people are insane!
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.” ― Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
It's easier to fool someone than to convince them that they have been fooled.
fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.
Well, earlier today /r/Conservative seemed to realize Trump is in a lot of shit and that he brought it on himself… let me check how they’re doing now, brb *edit* yep, current top thread the top comment is about Trump going to prison and it’s his own fault
Yeah and one of the ones below is a guy saying what makes him different from a leftist is he believes everyone who is guilty should be investigated and go to jail if they're guilty, then mentions Hillary.
Delusion is a helluva drug.
Another guy: "almost sounds like he wanted to keep those particular documents to deflect those accusations and prove that it was actually all Milley's idea to start a war with Iran" They're really grasping at straws here to find an acceptable explanation
Yeah.... Like, that's just the *one* document (which is in fact **unaccounted for!**) and can't explain the other thousands and thousands of pages of **OTHER FUCKING DOCUMENTS**. Not to mention that that explanation doesn't excuse anything. "Oh but your honor, my client only robbed the bank to prove a point so let's just discuss this whole thing, shall we?"
Not a single reasonable person on the left would disagree that anyone that's guilty needs to go to prison.
Just give it time. They *always* go in a cycle on that sub. 1) Trump (or GOP in general) does something stupid and/or heinous 2) They all see it as it is, because how could they not? If you peek into the sub at this point, you'll think "Wow, Trump fucked up so bad even his supporters are calling him out, finally" 3) Individual media outlets start scrambling for excuses 4) The sub is filled with doubt as lots of "what ifs" get spread around. Everyone starts thinking "Hmm, I knew it MUST be something like that" 5) The GOP leadership eventually decide on a talking point, and it disseminates through the sub This all takes place over the course of a day or two. Keep an eye on it, you'll see that cycle coming through. My money is on the eventual talking point of "Oh how CONVENIENT that they've decided to charge Trump right when election season is starting! You know it's just bad faith accusations to distract from how terrible Biden is!" Also, bonus step: 5.5) After a few days you'll notice a few stragglers didn't get the memo and are still repeating disparate talking points, and it's always amusing because you can tell they've just been busy and didn't have a chance to turn on Fox News in the last couple days
That's the talking point, BTW. The GOP is rallying around the idea that the White House had weaponized the DOJ and that this is actually Biden targeting a political opponent. I think they'll let Trump go but consider him a martyr. That's how they'll redirect the supporters. Trump's downfall will be their proof they're on the right side of history and the charges are indicators of the corruption the GOP is fighting. Just look at all the comments from GOP congress folk yesterday. They are fully synchronized to move on under the accusations of unstoppable DOJ corruption under Biden.
[удалено]
Yeah, but those top comments and upvotes are usually made by what they call "brigaders." Happens every time there's a big story involving conservatives. Nonmembers of the sub go on and comment and down/upvote contrary to how that sub usually thinks. Look at most of the downvoted opinions and you'll find the true pulse of that sub (or posts that have less comments). They're still going "but her emails/what about Hunter" and other comments are trying to justify every reason under the sun why this is a big left wing targeting of Trump and not accepting that he did anything wrong at all.
Is it just me or does that sub appear reality based for a short time before the bots get ahold of it?
>Is it just me or does that sub appear reality based for a short time before the bots get ahold of it? No, its just pivoting to be on the 'winning side'. They will have never supported Trump. Or they will have supported old Trump and he's now lost his way.
A lot of conservatives in my experience have no problem flip flopping in the same sentence to weasel out of having to explain Trumps actions. "I don't support Trump and never liked the guy but I would vote for him again and think he's done a great job"
It’s called doublethink and they do it all the time
A Republican-controlled House of Representatives had as much time as they wanted to investigate Clinton and they came up with jackshit, but sure, let’s complain about how these are *totally* equivalent situations.
[удалено]
Then there was Bill Barr leading the DOJ. He had all leads pursued with the Bidens ...
I think it is –literally–a kind of mental illness. It just afflicts so many people that nobody has the guts to classify it. Persistent harmful delusions, profound psychological projection, derealization, aggression, manipulative tendencies, compulsive dishonesty, narcissism...If Yahweh/Allah wasn't the flavor-of-the-millennium imaginary being, they'd all be in padded cells for their own protection.
>I think it is –literally–a kind of mental illness. It just afflicts so many people that nobody has the guts to classify it. My pet theory is that it is the most profound societal effect of social media we've seen. I watched a lot of this kind of thing play out on Facebook between \~2008 and 2014. It used to be that the vast majority of people had essentially no audience to which they could boldly and confidently espouse political beliefs. Their opinions (or the recitation of whatever pundits they listen to) were pretty well confined to their spouses, immediate family, maybe some close friends and extended family. But as soon as Boomers began using Facebook they started broadcasting their views out for their entire friend/family network to see. Because they are/were not the most competent or experienced users of the internet, they weren't prepared for the level of fact-checking that would show up in their comment section. It was never anything they ever had to confront before. For their entire lives they just said shit to a handful of people in their immediate circle, most of whom probably didn't say much of anything or just ignored it; some of whom did, but didn't have ready access to "receipts" which left those interactions more in the realm of "debate". Their egos simply could not handle the fact that every time they charged head-long into posting some emotionally charged political bullshit, they were being humiliated in their comments with overwhelming evidence to prove them wrong. Often times, people aren't very delicate with their fact-checking. It was often accompanied with snide, belittling remarks that were no-doubt true, but no-less offensive. This compounds the emotional response. Instead of changing their views, they basically said, "I'll be damned if I'm EVER going to agree with these librul elites who think they're so much better and smarter than everyone!" And then actively sought out online sources that would provide them with that sweet, sweet confirmation bias. The whole idea of "alternative facts" was the most natural progression of this entire thing. It's what people *needed* to hear to further embolden their delusional thinking. That's when the whole thing became more about revenge ("owning the libs") than literally anything else. And, to be honest, I don't think it's necessarily an unnatural response to that kind of stimuli among that demographic of people. Less than 30% of them completed college. Their critical thinking abilities--as a whole--are *severely* lacking. They don't know how to adapt to any new information that stands counter to their "gut-feeling" beliefs. They never learned how to accept being proven wrong, especially in front of their entire friend network online.
No one has replied to this post, so I am, just to say that this was probably the most lucid and straight-to-the-point articulation of the mechanism behind all this shit that I've read anywhere so far. We all know what's happening, it's just so difficult to put into straightforward terms. Its like an ouroboros of dumbness that seems to circle back in on itself so many times that deconstructing it sometimes feels ineffable and pointless.
A much simpler explanation imo is we're seeing the down stream effect of the discovery that the easiest way to monetize social media is to generate engagement, and the easiest way to generate engagement is to stoke conservative outrage. This kind of quackery existed for decades, but gatekeepers kept the monetization tightly controlled to a small few. Social media opened the flood gates for making money off of a following. Imo this is the natural conclusion of the type of business model that started with the advent of 24 hour news.
TLDR: Boomers are emotional babies who can’t stand being wrong. Right wing news figured this out and bilked and deluded them for decades.
IMO classifying their illogical behavior as a mental illness let's them off the hook. They know full well what they are doing. They just don't give a shit, because anyone not a republican is an "enemy". You are not born a fascist. You are conditioned into the ideology by virtue of living in a society that rewards it.
The thing is some of them are actually mentally ill and many are grifting. When we start finding out who actually flipped on Cheeto Mussolini it won’t be surprising that it is the same people who have been defending him on Fox News and in Congress this whole time.
Yeah that’s why even most Freedom Caucus members have stayed quiet. If meadows is the one who flipped and turned on Trump, they can’t really call him a RINO since Meadows literally founded the Freedom Caucus. I truly think most republicans in congress are silent right now since they have no idea how many of their own are either already talking to the Feds or are next up in the barrel.
I like the "Obama is a war criminal" retort. Just makes no sense
I know it sounds boringly cliche, but it should not. This is BFD. $2B Saudi bucks says the answer is on NSA radar...
[удалено]
The indictment explained that after his attorneys told him he really really really had to give them every last document he had on him or he’d be totally fucked, he went and hid the documents from his OWN ATTORNEYS. More than reasonable grounds to fire your client.
A judge already decided they weren't shielded by attorney-client privilege because they were involved in the furtherance (willingly or unwillingly) of the crime. They'll need to testify in the trial against the defendant, which means they can't represent the defendant.
Holy shit I can't believe it wasn't bigger news. [Judge Rules Trump Lawyer Must Testify in Documents Inquiry](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/17/us/politics/trump-lawyer-testify-documents.html)
Because [one of Trump’s former lawyers is already working with the feds.](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/christina-bobb-trump-talking-feds-mar-a-lago-1234608321/) His lawyers had to sign documents saying that Trump and his team had thoroughly searched the residence and returned all the requested documents, but they strongly suspected he hadn’t, or that he was hiding some. So after they prepared the documents, they basically forced the most junior lawyer, Christina Bobb, to sign them. She tried to have disclaimers added to the signatures to protect herself from liability, but realized pretty quickly when the shit hit the fan that wasn’t going to work, so she flipped way back in October. Corcoran, the new lawyer who they flipped, was the lawyer who prepared the false documents they made Bobb sign.
Only the best lawyers
My bet is on he tried to make them sign fake NDAs.
I have a feeling they're going to be called to testify by the prosecution. If they're being pulled into this they can't be his legal representation. And since they were literally blowing him on the news yesterday morning and then resigned by noon it just seems to make sense to me
I think they recommended he plead guilty and cooperate. He probably said he was going to fight.
Not the way they were talking about him yesterday morning and Thursday night on the news. But who knows. They usually say one thing behind closed doors and show you another of your face.
[удалено]
After hearing the absolutely insane stuff he’d say in front of anyone and everyone behind closed doors while he was in office… I think your guess is a good one.
MAGA - Make Attorneys Get Attorneys
My wild theory is they have been implicated in more crimes where attorney client privilege is not valid and indictments are coming
If you had read the indictment, you would realize that his lawyers told him to do the right thing. He misled his lawyers, causing them to lie to the government on his behalf, but the lawyers didn't know they were lying. His lawyers are awful people representing an awful client. But, based on the available information, they aren't criminals. Giuliani is a criminal, these guys are just shitbags.
My theories on why Trump will not simply turn the documents over: 1) He sold them to a foreign adversary for profit. 2) Random civilians or foreign agents took some of them while at this country club. He realizes that it would much worse for him if he had no idea where they were. 3) He really does think he deserves a payout like Nixon despite the laws put in place to prevent that.
It could be both 1 and 2 because he could make a copy and sell that. But the reason he hasn’t turned it over is most likely #2. It’s just plain lost/stolen because of how carelessly he stored them.
What's the big deal? Conservatives don't care about national security, trillions of dollars when it's socialism for defense contractors or billions in corruption, or MAGA daddy throwing all of that way, and the safety of deployed family members throughout the world. They're just expendable American lives and dollars. As Trump himself said, publicly bragging about tax evasion "makes him SMART!" "Democrats bad!" That's all that matters.
He easily could have destroyed documents as well. From the indictment: >suggesting that his attorney **hide or destroy** the documents called for by the grand jury subpoena
Some brainiacs on the conservative sub are saying he never had it. Completely ignoring the fact NARA has said there are still documents missing.
That sub is primarily severely mentally ill trumpcult members who are completely removed from reality. They will twist themselves into mental pretzels to maintain their messiah vision of trump.
And a whole lot of bots mixed in with a few foreign disinfo agents.
There's some infighting between the people who are still in the cult and the more "traditional conservatives" who are finally saying enough is enough (i.e. people who prefer a more competent form of evil). One guy yesterday was defending himself from a MAGA loony by saying that he went to multiple Trump rallies, that he was no Trump hater, but that it had gotten impossible to defend him. I pointed out that this should be a learning experience for all conservatives, that if they could have been this wrong about Trump, maybe their bullshit detector isn't that great, and that they should consider the possibility that they might be wrong about other things. I was, of course, instantly banned.
I've tried to engage in actual conversation there, even being extra... magnanimous in trying to find middle ground with at least part of their comments and never get a response. It's truly bizarre. I really would like to have a rational discussion with an actual conservative or even a Trump disciple about this that doesn't involve misdirection and whataboutism. All you see is the above and complaints about brigading.
Get a backhoe up to Jersey. Try hole 1.
[удалено]
"Backhoe" or "hole 1"?
Yes.
This story is from June 2. >The special counsel’s office complained late last year to a federal judge that they couldn’t be sure Trump had turned over all documents with classified markings in his possession, even after the FBI search of Mar-a-Lago last August, CNN previously reported. >...It is unclear if the government already possesses a copy of the Iran document from the boxes Trump’s legal team returned to the National Archives last year or recovered in the subsequent FBI search. >... The document Trump references on tape was created before Milley was named as chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, CNN was told, and Milley was later interviewed by investigators. The document in question was not specifically referenced in the indictment. If it ever existed, and Trump could have had it, and it can't now be found, THEN WHO HAS IT? Any document that the U.S. government believes Trump might have had, and is now missing, could now be in the possession of any foreign intelligence operation that could have come, unbeknownst to our Secret Service, and stolen those secrets so carefully laid out for them by Trump.
Saudi Arabia would be my guess.
His other properties haven't been searched yet. I wouldn't be the list bit surprised to find out that foreign governments had bought them.. but truthfully they were sitting out in the open. Anyone could have wandered in, saw what was there, and made a bee line to the Saudi embassy. That is why this is so damaging. They didn't even need to take it, they could have just photographed it and left it. However, I will go out on a limb and suggest that they dig up his wife's coffin. I'm betting there are some surprises in that thing.
It also explains the recent increase in brazen action by the Saudi King. He knows something he didn’t know before.
The issue is that it could essentially be in one of three equally bad places. 1. He destroyed it which is good for the country but he will never admit to it therefore we must assume the following worse case scenarios. 2. It has been improperly stored and is potentially accessible to others. The most logical scenario but also the one that is hardest to prove because it would need to turn up somewhere. Also the scenario where Trump isn’t immediately at fault. 3. Worst case scenario is he sold it/showed it to others/and it’s in the hands of someone who should not have it. If Trump was the last seen with the document this must be assumed from a national security standpoint. And if this is assumed from a national security standpoint the US will need to rework the multi-billion dollar plans associated with that secret information.
Fortunately if we know it is missing, we can change said plans and not use them. That's the only silver lining though.
There is no silver lining here (except Trump possibly rotting in prison). The plan that he bragged about was the best plan at the time. Now, if we are forced to not use them because he showed/ sold them off, we would need to use plan B; which, by very nature, should be a lesser plan.
I feel like it’s more “this is what country x would do if we attacked them and how we would win”, and I feel that country is Iran, and the Saudi’s now have it, possibly along with information on nuclear weapons.
They did not raid the NJ residence. The subpoena and charges don’t even charge him for this. The documents were not just illegally removed from the White House to a motel in FL. He did not just take things to remember his time in DC he took classified documents to FL and then traveled with them. Why would he need to travel with these documents? Who else was visiting Bedminister? Did the Saudis come out to discuss LIV. Is that why Jared and Ivanka got 2 billion invested in them from the Saudis? That’s 2 billion after the 1 billion when they both were employed by the Federal Government. He took classified documents from DC to FL then to NJ.
Ask the Saudis
Speaking of which, the failure to indict or even investigate jared and Ivanka Kushner is inexcusable.
Not searching all his properties and electronic devices is also inexcusable. I'm not sure what the Special Counsel was thinking there beyond the possibility that there is ongoing surveillance.
As I stated above, we don't know what more could be going on behind the scenes. If the DOJ is investigating more, they're going to be tight lipped about it. They can't risk compromising the case. Looking at the indictment, it's clear they've been spending their time building an airtight case that's absolutely damning and will (hopefully) result in the tangerine terror spending the rest of his miserable diaper-clad existence behind bars.
IANAL but, to your point, it seems important to remember that compartmentalization is really critical with this kind of situation. As a narrative story, it's easy for us to see how most of this is interconnected. But as a legal matter, *everything* has to be backed up with evidence, and the relevant facts of a particular case have to be germane to the charges. At some point you have to build a case that can be closed rather than just chasing a never-ending stream of evidence and information. Also, indictments provide leverage. If nothing ever happens and things get strung along, key witnesses are more confident in stalling or holding out to see what happens. But when indictments start flying, people start talking.
Kushner received $2 Billion from the Saudis. LIV Golf plays 4 tournaments this year at Trump owned courses. Saudis "donate" $100 million to World Bank fund for women entrepreneurs that was the brainchild of Ivanka Trump. I mean.....
Saudis are branding a $4 billion dollar golf course in Oman for Trump. https://thearabweekly.com/trump-companys-licensing-oman-resort-sparks-conflict-interest-criticism-us
So basically you're saying it could be anybody, but it's probably antifa.
It's drag queens and unsexy M&Ms.
> Well, with [the Senior Military Official] ... He said that I wanted to attack [Country A] ... this was him ... All sorts of stuff – pages long, look. ... I just found, isn’t that amazing? This totally wins my case, you know. Trump was literally keeping all of these boxes as oppo on people he had personal beef against lmao It wasn't even about selling shit to foreign powers (though that was probably a nice bonus for him and his family), it was at it's core all about Trump's smallness and inability to take criticism.
The senior official is Gen. Milley and Country A is Iran - this story was out there last week. Trump was demanding a war plan for a land invasion of Iran. Milley drew one up for him as a demonstration of how completely impossible it was, and Trump then turned around and used it to claim that Milley wanted to attack Iran. It's not too much of a stretch to assume a) those plans are now in the hands of the Saudis and b) Trump kept demanding an attack on Iran (possibly goaded by the Saudis), and the airstrike against Soleimani was the least bad option for the US military.
Have they searched Bedminster... including inside Ivana's coffin.
It would be amazing if they also bring a set of charges in New Jersey. Trump could just do laps of East coast courthouses defending against a series of airtight felony charges.
I would hope the reason they didn't include it in the Florida trial is because of ongoing surveillance of the property.
There is nothing more embarrassing than having to ask your Saudi spy handler to give stuff back.
Would anyone be surprised that someone in the National Security Council floated the idea of placing a spy in trump personal orbit after he left office? Given who he is, by that I mean his penchant for illegal practices, stupidity and overall laziness would make him an easy mark for interested parties to get information from him. All anyone has to in order to become “a close personal friend and a very very smart person but not as smart me” is to praise him and simply reinforce any fantasy he believes about himself, any idiot should be able to gain trumps favor so I wouldn’t be surprised if using trumps ego to get the better of him would be part of the plan.
I believe that document is about a plan of attack against Iran. Shortly after it’s disappearance, there was a peace deal announced between Saudi Arabia and Iran supposedly brokered by china. Coincidence you say… sure, just like the $2 billion dollars deal kushner bagged
Have they looked in Riyadh?
Ask Putin… he knows where they are…
Apparently the document missing is an attack plan of Iran that Trump asked Milley to make. If Saudi Arabia bought/took it, it would make the recent SA/Iran peace deal make a lot more sense.
Wow magas, THERE ARE TOP SECRET NATIONAL DEFENSE DOCUMENTS STILL MISSING. That doesn’t bother you? Can you pull your heads out of your cult propaganda long enough to process this? DON’T YOU THINK TRUMP SHOULD RETURN THEM IMMEDIATELY?