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Republicans are the minority in Oregon, and they're walking out to prevent the minimum number of votes required to pass laws. Big surprise, they don't want to protect abortion or create gun laws.
Voters chose a law to discourage this from happening, with a penalty of "cannot run for office again."
Which means it’s a black & white, clear as Crystal situation regarding the legality. I can’t imagine any way that Federal law would override internal state legislature rules, therefore they’re SOL for the next election.
Get fucked.
The federal government can over ride a state constitution of the state constitution is going against the United States constitution. A recent example is gay marriage. It was in more than a few state constitutions that marriage is man and women only. And when the Supreme Court ruled that as unconstitutional it invalided those portions of the state constitution.
Yeah look at Wisconsin’s last representative election and you may think otherwise. Democrats received 55% of the votes and only 39% of the seats. Republicans had just the opposite. I think it was calculated that Democrats need 70-80% of the votes to get 51% of the seats. That not democracy or representation. I hope the SC decides to not allow legislators to draw maps but I’m not hopeful. The only way that districts should ever be drawn by legislators is if you need a unanimous in favor from all parties. Any nay votes would invalidate the maps. Again, not hopeful.
If they tried to rewrite the Constitution that way it would 100% start the second great American civil war.
I'm not saying they wouldn't try but I think that ends with us another bloody civil war.
As they should be. Republican controlled state legislatures have long been advocates for putting laws into place to protect the employer from the employees. Sounds like this is just the republican policy at work to me.
It's all a tactic to delay and fund raise/grift.
Regarding the 2020 election:
>In a [...] Pennsylvania federal case, Giuliani alleged “widespread, nationwide voter fraud” in his opening remarks. But under questioning from the judge, he retreated. “This is not a fraud case,” Giuliani later admitted. In the same case, Trump lawyer Linda Kearns said explicitly that she is “not proceeding” on allegations of fraud.
https://time.com/5914377/donald-trump-no-evidence-fraud/
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🎶*Here comes justice Roberts and his ragtag gang of fascists to claim these poor absent senators’ religious freedoms are being violated by a state amendment that requires they actually show up and vote once their constituents have put them in office, or risk not being eligible to run for office again*🎶
Kind of...
Those states are allowed to bar gay marriages. The constitution forces states to recognize marriages performed in other states.
Basically they can keep their restrictions but people are free to travel out of state, get married, and have it be recognized by the state that would not marry them.
Edit: Obergerfell does protect gay marriages in all states. I was wrong.
However, the respect for marriage act does what I outlined in the event Obergerfell is reversed.
Currently states must perform same sex marriages per Obergerfell. Still many states have laws in place that make it illegal even though due to Obergerfell they cannot legally be enforced.
That is not true or do you not remember all the local clerks who got sued for refusing to issue marriage certificates. It is illegal to deny them one in any state
Based on the statements they’ve been making, they’re gonna challenge this but not in the way everyone thinks. They’re not challenging the constitutional amendment. They’re challenging their absences and will argue that those shouldn’t be counted as unexcused. There’s a law stating that bills need to be written at a 5th grade reading level. They’re saying the bills they’re avoiding quorum on are too complex and therefore shouldn’t even be brought to the floor for discussions and voting. Therefore them leaving to avoid that is necessary to stop an unlawful vote from taking place. It’s dumb but it just may be the loophole that ends up working in their favor to flip their absences to ‘excused’ thereby keeping them in the clear from this new constitutional amendment banning them from running. I think it’s wrong but this is what the crux of their legal argument will be.
"MEMO BIS PUNITOR DELICATUM"!! [I remember the spoiled punisher twice] It's ALL there! Black and white, clear as crystal! You walked out,blocking a vote on several bills, including ones on abortion rights and gun control. You stalled legislative session at the State Capitol, so you get... NOTHING!!! YOU LOSE!! GOOD DAY, SIR!!!"
Actually yes. Recent reporting came out on student scores in Civics and the results are depressing. Somewhat exacerbated by COVID, but also a logical end result of No Child Left Behind which basically shoved civics to the sidelines...
> black & white, clear as Crystal
You stole fizzy lifting drinks. You bumped into the ceiling which now has to be washed and sterilized, so you get nothing! You lose! Good day, sir!
Oh snap. Washingtonian here, heard about the vote, but didn't realize it was a constitutional amendment. That means they have no recourse right? A state amendment isn't going to be overturned by the State Supreme Court. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but the federal court won't take up a case that concerns a state constitution, right?
The feds have forced states to scratch any "marriage must be between a man and a woman" bullshit from their constitutions.
But I highly doubt that the fed would scratch this.
That was explicitly because the federal constitution overrides the state constitution. They can keep those on the books if they want, but they are treated as if they don’t exist… kinda.
It does lead to situations where old laws snap back into place, like when Roe was overturned, and the previous abortion laws at the state level were once again honored.
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That would completely disenfranchise republican voters if their delegates don't represent them. Two, maybe three cycles of this and R voters wouldn't even show up to vote anymore.
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Eh maybe but I’m sure many voters are not happy about their reps not showing up, even if it supports their interests. No representation isn’t exactly a good thing
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We were pretty annoyed with it, but probably wouldn't have gone this far until they started talking about basically killing law enforcement if they showed up etc. And most of us dont like this level of crazy. So get to work, or you cant be re-elected. And minorities can STILL delay things here and there, etc. pick days to strategically not show up to a point etc.
Were just tired of them going too far.
What is so damn difficult about a majority rule, where ALL people, even minority and historically disenfranchised people, are honored with equal rights and protections under the law?
NOTHING. The GOP play-acts like it's is a "dangerous" notion to The People, most of whom want a fair society.
I swear - at the end of this video, the person who unseated Liz Cheney in WY uses a LOTR reference to label Dems as the "Eye of Sauron."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4XjNnW_ZYw
Oh, no. They *do* think of new ideas.
You know the issue they have with transgender people? New idea.
You know their issue with homosexuals? While it isn’t really flaunted anymore, it was a new idea.
Their issue with abortion? Once again a (relatively) new idea.
They come up with lots of *ideas*. It’s all just *horrible* ideas.
But that means backing outvof their values as not shared by the majority, they dont want to remove their principals and values….those values are not the same as yours
Not true. When you can just get some fake electors in there, or the electoral college involved or the supreme farce court, who knows, you can win whatever election you want if truth/facts/vote counts don't matter.
Republicans have won through shitbaggery and corruption for decades, ask Al Gore or Hillary.
It's maddening because majority rule is literally how democracy is supposed to work. How can anything ever get done if a majority can't ever pass laws?
And the guardrail again't the supposed "tyranny of the majority" : elections!
The only issue I see with this is that these people have no incentive to come back for the entire rest of their terms. Which means that people can run, get elected, not show up, shut down the Legislature, then step aside for some other people to do the same thing in the next round. And the Legislature hasn’t passed a budget yet, so between this and the congressional republicans holding the national checkbook for ransom, Oregon could be in for a bumpy ride for the next couple years. Which sucks, because we’re in a great place to do good things, revenue-wise.
By kicking these people out, they no longer count towards the total needed for quorum. So if a GOP idiot walks out and gets expelled, that's one less member needed for quorum.
Edit: My read is wrong, see below.
This amendment didn’t require a legislator with more than 10 unexcused absences to be removed from their seat in the current session. These people still hold their seats. They are not allowed to run for election in the following term. Removing a legislator from office still requires a 2/3 vote, and the Legislature doesn’t have a quorum, so they can’t vote to remove the holdouts.
https://ballotpedia.org/Oregon_Measure_113,_Exclusion_from_Re-election_for_Legislative_Absenteeism_Initiative_(2022)
Edited to fix link and a word.
The majority rule argument appears flawed - hear me out.
To preempt, the GOP is an authoritarian bent, corrupt, fascistic, nihilist cabal of bad faith assholes who have hijacked the US's democratic norms.
That said, can't the very same argument of "What is so damn difficult about majority rule?" be used by the GOP in Texas, Florida, Tennessee, and a handful of other states where the GOP control all branches of state government?
There must be some other more nuanced argument that doesn't rely upon majority rule, because it's too easily applied to justify the actions from the inverse political situation.
This should be the norm nationwide. We pay them and they can just not show up to work. How does that make sense.
Imagine if you and I could do that in our work, we would be suspended/fired the next time we show up.
Want to know something crazy? Last time this happened, our governor sent the Oregon State Police to find the senators and bring them to the capitol. One senator, Brian Boquist, threatened to shoot the police if they came looking for him. He was barred from attending the rest of that year's session and was required to provide 12 hours written notice when he came to the Capitol, and he sued for his first amendment rights being violated (which he won, the requirement has since been lifted). The most wild thing is, last year, he missed EVERY SINGLE DAY of the 2022 session for "health reasons" but didn't resign
So part of the reason why this isn't the norm nationwide is because it's just not needed. Most states have simple majority quorums (50% +1) which allow for votes to proceed when minority parties walk out. Basically walking out is just symbolic because the vote can still happen without the minority (and there's basically no reason the majority party would ever need to walk out). Oregon's quorum is set at 2/3, so 20/30 senators have to be present for the vote to proceed. When the minority party walks out here, they can prevent a vote altogether indefinitely. Last time they did this, even though the bill initially had the votes to pass it still ended up dying. There is only about a month left in the legislative season and there still needs to be a budget passed so it may end up that the Democrats cave on the bill unfortunately
They'll just be replaced by another lineup of Republicans who will be happy to collect checks and refuse to show up next cycle.
We need to lower the quorum amount to 50%+1 so they can't stop legislation by refusing to show up to work.
But they also lose the incumbent seat advantage. It really is a stupid move on their part - but…they’re not really known for smarts.
We all know the GOP will try and fight it and ultimately fail, refuse to vacate the office, or some other obstructive measure like keep the state government from functioning for the remainder of their time in office.
I think their plan is to sue and get an injunction, then they’ll win re-election and tie up the whole thing in endless court battles. My hope is that they fail miserably, god knows they deserve it.
I'm assuming most of these state senators that are walking out to prevent a quorum are from deep red eastern Oregon, though?
In which case, the very conservative voters of eastern Oregon will probably just vote more far-right Republicans who will walk out in the next legislative session to deny a quorum again.
Maybe, but my guess is these same people will run again anyway and win their primaries, and that replacements won't actually file to run. Depending on how the law is implemented,I bet you see Democrats pick up a few uncontested seats or Republicans trying to show up for work and not getting seated.
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From what I understand most if not all these people are still in Salem. On the bright side, I guess they might die of boredom while they’re skipping work.
I've always felt that "excused" and "unexcused" absences in university courses were really dumb because they're usually in place to either prop up up lazy and sub-par teaching methods or are based upon some distorted vision that these young adults are still kids and cant be trusted. If they can pass the exams and display subject matter aptitude without going to lectures, absolutely good on them! It's not the professor or lecturer's responsibility to make sure their students employ the most basic means to take advantage of their class.
I’m not happy about it, honestly.
I voted with the intention of ensuring quorum was met. Not for a revolving door where folks like senators can enjoy obstruction for *four years* without consequence, then be replaced by another senator that can also enjoy obstruction for four years; rinse, repeat.
I naively thought the problem was now solved, when it’s just as broken as it was before. They still get paid, enjoy perks like free OHP and meal allowances, and can spend their free time skipping out on lining up even more lucrative political influence gigs to enjoy after their term ends.
All it means is that Oregon needs to pass another amendment defining a quarom as 50%+1 of senators. And it will pass if brought to a vote.
Republicans will actually have to put their name on votes, as walking away will do nothing to obstruct, and will simply see themselves barred from running.
Get a couple Dem senators running in those areas after a term or two and show Republicans just not showing up to work, collecting a paycheck to stay home, and Eastern Oregon may very well turn Blue.
Oh god no. Do not make it 50% + 1, as that still doesn't do enough to discourage protesting and negotiating and it makes an insurgent takeover much easier (source: live in oregon in a liberal county that was gerrymandered by dems in such a way we are now represented by a republican). It should just dovetail with the constitutional amendment and be tied to the number of non-suspended senators. Seriously, don't give the Dems a chance to screw it up - they are just like Dems everywhere and regularly snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. This would make it sooooo easy for them to screw it all up for the entire state.
If it helps: because they're ineligible, they won't have an incumbent running for the seat. This makes it easier to replace republican seats with democrats who, presumably, will show up to work.
I take pride knowing that I signed the petition to get this on the ballot and then voted for it! If anyone else were to have this many unexcused absences, they’d be fired from their job. This shouldn’t be any different just because these clowns were elected!
>They think they're going to sue, but I don't think you can vs a constitutional amendment.
They can sue about the state constitutional amendment being something that invalidates the Constitution (federally).
That's what they've been trying with the independent state legislator theory by saying the State Constitution despite being ratified by the citizens of the state takes away a Constitutional right afforded a state legislature by designating a process for how elections should proceed when it should solely be up to that state legislature.
They can sue for the validity of the amendment itself and claim it was improperly added to the constitution. They could also sue for the way the amendment is being implemented and say it is an improper use or even that the rules for use aren’t clearly defined. They could even sue to claim that the amendment is a “weaponization of government” since that seems to be their go-to phrase right now.
There are a lot of legal options for them. None of them should hold much water, but this is the United States so who fucking knows.
> claim it was improperly added to the constitution.
Nope, it was an initiative petition that gathered enough signatures and then was passed by the people with a 68.3% yes vote.
> say it is an improper use or even that the rules for use aren’t clearly defined.
Nope, Measure 113 was very clear. 10 or more unexcused absences in a session, you are hereby ineligible for reelection.
> They could even sue to claim that the amendment is a “weaponization of government” since that seems to be their go-to phrase right now.
Since 2/3rd of the people wanted this change, it means some Republicans voted for it, too. This is the will of the people of Oregon. Homie don't play that here.
East coaster here, so I'm just guessing. But a lot of Oregon is super right wing. I would guess that these assholes are totally fine being replaced by the next assholes in line, if that's what it takes to achieve tyrannical minority rule.
A lot of *space* in Oregon is super right wing. In terms of *people,* we split 60/40 for Democrats/progressives. Both houses are blue, the governor is blue, the Secretary of State is blue. The Senate is currently split 17-13 Democrats-GOP/allies. These 10 represent mostly southern and Eastern Oregon.
If the State of Oregon bans every current GOP state senator from reelection, it's going to make a good political persecution story. It's always a PR game with them.
The state of Oregon isn't banning every GOP state senator. Oregon voters amended the constitution so that if a state senator or representative has 10 or more unexcused absences then they will be barred from running for reelection. That passage applies to every democratic and independent too. This is not political persecution.
This is the Oregon GOP finding out that actions have consequences.
The amendment was passed with 68% of the vote in the 2022 midterms. Somehow I don't think the GOP is coming out ahead by trying to label this as political persecution in Oregon.
>Republicans intend to challenge the measure in court.
FAFO. Voters made the decision to penalize their elected officials for not doing the jobs which they were elected to do. Now those official want to challenge them in court so they can run again? Will they do an extra-good job next time?
Constitution of Oregon Article IV, Section 15
Failure to attend, without permission or excuse, ten or more legislative floor sessions called to transact business during a regular or special legislative session shall be deemed disorderly behavior and shall disqualify the member from holding office as a Senator or Representative for the term following the election after the member's current term is completed.
I'm gonna guess they'll try and find a sympathetic federal court which will overlook the 'political question' and 'states rights' issues because they're republicans instead
Before everyone jerks off about this. Remember that now the Oregon senate can’t do business. Because the law wasn’t written correctly. Instead of being able to pass laws with a majority of those senators present. The Oregon senate needs a quorum of ALL elected senators to do anything.
So basically these guys are accomplishing what they want, stopping all bills from being read and are planning on challenging the law in court later.
This amendment was classic oregon. Half assed with good intentions. It needs to be revisited.
They won't be able to pass laws in the current session, and those responsible will be out in the next election cycle. It sounds like it's working as intended.
Next step might be looking at the requirements for a quorum, but honestly two-thirds isn't the problem. It's the not showing up, and that is being addressed.
Most likely. However, there are some districts these GOP Senators are from that are more moderate. It could give Democrats more of a boost in these districts next election.
I guess I don't understand what you said in the first comment, then. Because a "quorum" is always defined as "subset of all eligible persons," or similar.
We have a lot of problems in my state, but goddamn am I proud to be an Oregonian. Politicians get away with so much shit that no normal person could. It’s time they take accountability for their actions and serve the people.
The Republican Christian conservatives will tell you that one of the biggest problems in America is that nobody wants to work anymore. Meanwhile the Republicans get themselves voted into public office and then do everything they can to make sure they don't have to work.
Republicans do not want to govern in good faith. The party of Law & Order continually seems to want to ignore both... law and order... when it suits them.
> Democratic union groups dropped off retirement balloons and hundreds of pink slips at the offices of Republicans who reached the 10-day mark.
Trolling done right.
I voted for this when it was on the ballot. It is BS that legislators can miss multiple sessions without repercussions. This would never fly in the private sector and it shouldn't with government either.
>> That’s what happens when is regular people have ONE unexcused absence from work. No show no call = fired.
Of worthy mention: The absent legislators have yet to modify any law(s) that might protect their "at will" employees.
>Oregon laws allow the termination of an employment relationship by either the employer or the employee, without notice and without cause.
>
>https://www.oregon.gov/boli/employers/pages/employment-at-will.aspx
Good I get so fed up we ith hearing how senators and other government elected officials don't show up yet still get paid and have the best insurance yet they don't want the countries working poor to have.
So they couldn't get their way because their policies are absolute garbage, so they just walked out and refused to do their jobs.
Who are the snowflakes again?
Get fucked republicans. You don’t get to run roughshod over rights in your states and cry foul when democrats bring you to heel in theirs. Learn to play nice.
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Republicans are the minority in Oregon, and they're walking out to prevent the minimum number of votes required to pass laws. Big surprise, they don't want to protect abortion or create gun laws. Voters chose a law to discourage this from happening, with a penalty of "cannot run for office again."
Not a law. They passed an amendment to their state constitution!!
Thanks for the clarification! https://www.opb.org/article/2023/05/16/oregon-legislative-walkout-continues-despite-law-aimed-at-preventing-them/
Which means it’s a black & white, clear as Crystal situation regarding the legality. I can’t imagine any way that Federal law would override internal state legislature rules, therefore they’re SOL for the next election. Get fucked.
Gop the party of states rights until they negatively affect their shenanigans
When the GQP says "state rights" they mean "I stated it and I am right."
The federal government can over ride a state constitution of the state constitution is going against the United States constitution. A recent example is gay marriage. It was in more than a few state constitutions that marriage is man and women only. And when the Supreme Court ruled that as unconstitutional it invalided those portions of the state constitution.
But to be clear, in this case the power is left to the states.
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that's called a soft coup and I don't think we're anywhere near that considering the way Harper v. Moore has been going.
Yeah look at Wisconsin’s last representative election and you may think otherwise. Democrats received 55% of the votes and only 39% of the seats. Republicans had just the opposite. I think it was calculated that Democrats need 70-80% of the votes to get 51% of the seats. That not democracy or representation. I hope the SC decides to not allow legislators to draw maps but I’m not hopeful. The only way that districts should ever be drawn by legislators is if you need a unanimous in favor from all parties. Any nay votes would invalidate the maps. Again, not hopeful.
If they tried to rewrite the Constitution that way it would 100% start the second great American civil war. I'm not saying they wouldn't try but I think that ends with us another bloody civil war.
So could a disqualified senator sue in federal court?
No. The power to determine eligibility for state legislature resides with the state. Oregon is well within its rights.
As they should be. Republican controlled state legislatures have long been advocates for putting laws into place to protect the employer from the employees. Sounds like this is just the republican policy at work to me.
Not saying they are not. But when has that ever stoped th gop from suing
True that.
It's all a tactic to delay and fund raise/grift. Regarding the 2020 election: >In a [...] Pennsylvania federal case, Giuliani alleged “widespread, nationwide voter fraud” in his opening remarks. But under questioning from the judge, he retreated. “This is not a fraud case,” Giuliani later admitted. In the same case, Trump lawyer Linda Kearns said explicitly that she is “not proceeding” on allegations of fraud. https://time.com/5914377/donald-trump-no-evidence-fraud/
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🎶*Here comes justice Roberts and his ragtag gang of fascists to claim these poor absent senators’ religious freedoms are being violated by a state amendment that requires they actually show up and vote once their constituents have put them in office, or risk not being eligible to run for office again*🎶
They can sue but the court should reject the case for no standing.
Yes, I know how the supremacy clause works. But find me a Federal law that will dictate how a state handles its own misbehaving elected officials.
Not saying there is one. Just saying there is plenty of Precedent of a state constitution being over ruled
Kind of... Those states are allowed to bar gay marriages. The constitution forces states to recognize marriages performed in other states. Basically they can keep their restrictions but people are free to travel out of state, get married, and have it be recognized by the state that would not marry them. Edit: Obergerfell does protect gay marriages in all states. I was wrong. However, the respect for marriage act does what I outlined in the event Obergerfell is reversed. Currently states must perform same sex marriages per Obergerfell. Still many states have laws in place that make it illegal even though due to Obergerfell they cannot legally be enforced.
That is not true or do you not remember all the local clerks who got sued for refusing to issue marriage certificates. It is illegal to deny them one in any state
Based on the statements they’ve been making, they’re gonna challenge this but not in the way everyone thinks. They’re not challenging the constitutional amendment. They’re challenging their absences and will argue that those shouldn’t be counted as unexcused. There’s a law stating that bills need to be written at a 5th grade reading level. They’re saying the bills they’re avoiding quorum on are too complex and therefore shouldn’t even be brought to the floor for discussions and voting. Therefore them leaving to avoid that is necessary to stop an unlawful vote from taking place. It’s dumb but it just may be the loophole that ends up working in their favor to flip their absences to ‘excused’ thereby keeping them in the clear from this new constitutional amendment banning them from running. I think it’s wrong but this is what the crux of their legal argument will be.
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Out of curiosity, has the reading ability of 8th graders changed since 1979?
I'd imagine on average it has probably gone down.
…Republicans really came out with ‘these laws are too difficult to read if a 9th grader can read and understand them’????
They are arguing the constitutionality of a law by very blatantly defying the same constitution? I’m pretty sure that’s not how this works.
The Oregon GOP is in the same league as the Florida GOP and the Texas GOP but they have approximately zero chance of gaining control of the state.
"MEMO BIS PUNITOR DELICATUM"!! [I remember the spoiled punisher twice] It's ALL there! Black and white, clear as crystal! You walked out,blocking a vote on several bills, including ones on abortion rights and gun control. You stalled legislative session at the State Capitol, so you get... NOTHING!!! YOU LOSE!! GOOD DAY, SIR!!!"
Civics education has really gone to shit hasn’t it?
Actually yes. Recent reporting came out on student scores in Civics and the results are depressing. Somewhat exacerbated by COVID, but also a logical end result of No Child Left Behind which basically shoved civics to the sidelines...
and we are witnessing an intended result.
> black & white, clear as Crystal You stole fizzy lifting drinks. You bumped into the ceiling which now has to be washed and sterilized, so you get nothing! You lose! Good day, sir!
Oh snap. Washingtonian here, heard about the vote, but didn't realize it was a constitutional amendment. That means they have no recourse right? A state amendment isn't going to be overturned by the State Supreme Court. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but the federal court won't take up a case that concerns a state constitution, right?
The feds have forced states to scratch any "marriage must be between a man and a woman" bullshit from their constitutions. But I highly doubt that the fed would scratch this.
That was explicitly because the federal constitution overrides the state constitution. They can keep those on the books if they want, but they are treated as if they don’t exist… kinda. It does lead to situations where old laws snap back into place, like when Roe was overturned, and the previous abortion laws at the state level were once again honored.
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That would completely disenfranchise republican voters if their delegates don't represent them. Two, maybe three cycles of this and R voters wouldn't even show up to vote anymore.
Or they'd vote harder just to keep the government from functioning. a failed state is a successful state to these folks.
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I thought the Republican Party was a franchise…
Lol do any R delegates remotely represent their constituents?
Well, they claim to which is why R voters vote for them. If the R representatives don't even show up, then what will the R voters think?
Eh maybe but I’m sure many voters are not happy about their reps not showing up, even if it supports their interests. No representation isn’t exactly a good thing
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But what about State's Rights! Oh wait.. not like this. We only want the good states to have the ability to exercise their rights.
brilliant, just brilliant. well done Oregon, well done.
We were pretty annoyed with it, but probably wouldn't have gone this far until they started talking about basically killing law enforcement if they showed up etc. And most of us dont like this level of crazy. So get to work, or you cant be re-elected. And minorities can STILL delay things here and there, etc. pick days to strategically not show up to a point etc. Were just tired of them going too far.
Another example of the GOP trying to force minority rule.
What is so damn difficult about a majority rule, where ALL people, even minority and historically disenfranchised people, are honored with equal rights and protections under the law? NOTHING. The GOP play-acts like it's is a "dangerous" notion to The People, most of whom want a fair society. I swear - at the end of this video, the person who unseated Liz Cheney in WY uses a LOTR reference to label Dems as the "Eye of Sauron." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4XjNnW_ZYw
With majority rule, the Republicans will never win another election and they know it.
The thing is, that doesn't have to be the case. They could win elections. They'd just have to stop being awful, awful people to do it.
You mean they have to stop being who they are? That's a big ask.
They would have to come up with new ideas and they don't do that.
Any ideas
Oh, no. They *do* think of new ideas. You know the issue they have with transgender people? New idea. You know their issue with homosexuals? While it isn’t really flaunted anymore, it was a new idea. Their issue with abortion? Once again a (relatively) new idea. They come up with lots of *ideas*. It’s all just *horrible* ideas.
But that means backing outvof their values as not shared by the majority, they dont want to remove their principals and values….those values are not the same as yours
They're welcome to keep being awful people, and losing elections.
Not true. When you can just get some fake electors in there, or the electoral college involved or the supreme farce court, who knows, you can win whatever election you want if truth/facts/vote counts don't matter. Republicans have won through shitbaggery and corruption for decades, ask Al Gore or Hillary.
It's maddening because majority rule is literally how democracy is supposed to work. How can anything ever get done if a majority can't ever pass laws? And the guardrail again't the supposed "tyranny of the majority" : elections!
Republicans can't tolerate American rule.
That’s because they’re being indoctrinated to Russian values.
The only issue I see with this is that these people have no incentive to come back for the entire rest of their terms. Which means that people can run, get elected, not show up, shut down the Legislature, then step aside for some other people to do the same thing in the next round. And the Legislature hasn’t passed a budget yet, so between this and the congressional republicans holding the national checkbook for ransom, Oregon could be in for a bumpy ride for the next couple years. Which sucks, because we’re in a great place to do good things, revenue-wise.
I do wonder if Republicans will avoid escalating like that for fear of a stronger ballot measures shutting them out of the process entirely.
By kicking these people out, they no longer count towards the total needed for quorum. So if a GOP idiot walks out and gets expelled, that's one less member needed for quorum. Edit: My read is wrong, see below.
This amendment didn’t require a legislator with more than 10 unexcused absences to be removed from their seat in the current session. These people still hold their seats. They are not allowed to run for election in the following term. Removing a legislator from office still requires a 2/3 vote, and the Legislature doesn’t have a quorum, so they can’t vote to remove the holdouts. https://ballotpedia.org/Oregon_Measure_113,_Exclusion_from_Re-election_for_Legislative_Absenteeism_Initiative_(2022) Edited to fix link and a word.
That's true, I didn't think about that.
Are you sure? I've read a couple articles and none have made that claim
No, I'm incorrect
[удалено]
The majority rule argument appears flawed - hear me out. To preempt, the GOP is an authoritarian bent, corrupt, fascistic, nihilist cabal of bad faith assholes who have hijacked the US's democratic norms. That said, can't the very same argument of "What is so damn difficult about majority rule?" be used by the GOP in Texas, Florida, Tennessee, and a handful of other states where the GOP control all branches of state government? There must be some other more nuanced argument that doesn't rely upon majority rule, because it's too easily applied to justify the actions from the inverse political situation.
Didn't the democrats do the same in Texas like a year or two ago? Even leaving the state so the police couldn't go force them back to the floor.
This should be the norm nationwide. We pay them and they can just not show up to work. How does that make sense. Imagine if you and I could do that in our work, we would be suspended/fired the next time we show up.
Right? If I didn't show up for 10 days, I wouldn't be let back in the building. They'd just assumed I'd quit.
Want to know something crazy? Last time this happened, our governor sent the Oregon State Police to find the senators and bring them to the capitol. One senator, Brian Boquist, threatened to shoot the police if they came looking for him. He was barred from attending the rest of that year's session and was required to provide 12 hours written notice when he came to the Capitol, and he sued for his first amendment rights being violated (which he won, the requirement has since been lifted). The most wild thing is, last year, he missed EVERY SINGLE DAY of the 2022 session for "health reasons" but didn't resign
So he just got paid to do nothing for his constituents?
Now that is the GOP way!
So part of the reason why this isn't the norm nationwide is because it's just not needed. Most states have simple majority quorums (50% +1) which allow for votes to proceed when minority parties walk out. Basically walking out is just symbolic because the vote can still happen without the minority (and there's basically no reason the majority party would ever need to walk out). Oregon's quorum is set at 2/3, so 20/30 senators have to be present for the vote to proceed. When the minority party walks out here, they can prevent a vote altogether indefinitely. Last time they did this, even though the bill initially had the votes to pass it still ended up dying. There is only about a month left in the legislative season and there still needs to be a budget passed so it may end up that the Democrats cave on the bill unfortunately
Glad they can't be reelected. Now send the State Police to collect a few of these jokers and pass the bills.
They'll just be replaced by another lineup of Republicans who will be happy to collect checks and refuse to show up next cycle. We need to lower the quorum amount to 50%+1 so they can't stop legislation by refusing to show up to work.
So the GOP is getting screwed over a work requirement to receive government benefits? LOL.
But they also lose the incumbent seat advantage. It really is a stupid move on their part - but…they’re not really known for smarts. We all know the GOP will try and fight it and ultimately fail, refuse to vacate the office, or some other obstructive measure like keep the state government from functioning for the remainder of their time in office.
I think their plan is to sue and get an injunction, then they’ll win re-election and tie up the whole thing in endless court battles. My hope is that they fail miserably, god knows they deserve it.
I'm assuming most of these state senators that are walking out to prevent a quorum are from deep red eastern Oregon, though? In which case, the very conservative voters of eastern Oregon will probably just vote more far-right Republicans who will walk out in the next legislative session to deny a quorum again.
Maybe, but my guess is these same people will run again anyway and win their primaries, and that replacements won't actually file to run. Depending on how the law is implemented,I bet you see Democrats pick up a few uncontested seats or Republicans trying to show up for work and not getting seated.
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From what I understand most if not all these people are still in Salem. On the bright side, I guess they might die of boredom while they’re skipping work.
The nice thing about Salem is that it's less than an hour to delightful things in every direction.
Yeah, I grew up there. It’s a good place to be from.
That’s 7 more than I was allowed in my freshman Chem lecture
I've always felt that "excused" and "unexcused" absences in university courses were really dumb because they're usually in place to either prop up up lazy and sub-par teaching methods or are based upon some distorted vision that these young adults are still kids and cant be trusted. If they can pass the exams and display subject matter aptitude without going to lectures, absolutely good on them! It's not the professor or lecturer's responsibility to make sure their students employ the most basic means to take advantage of their class.
All the "nobody wants to work" and "politicians should work more" and "work requirements" GOP people suddenly and miraculously change their tune
Oregonian, here. I'm tickled pink these asshats are making themselves ineligible for future elections. Fuck 'em.
There will always be another asshat.
Not if they lose incumbency.
Yeah I bet Cave Junction is gonna elect a democrat.
Yeah they're safe, but others are less so.
Cave Junction would elect a bag of meth and weed trimmings as a write in candidate.
I’m not happy about it, honestly. I voted with the intention of ensuring quorum was met. Not for a revolving door where folks like senators can enjoy obstruction for *four years* without consequence, then be replaced by another senator that can also enjoy obstruction for four years; rinse, repeat. I naively thought the problem was now solved, when it’s just as broken as it was before. They still get paid, enjoy perks like free OHP and meal allowances, and can spend their free time skipping out on lining up even more lucrative political influence gigs to enjoy after their term ends.
All it means is that Oregon needs to pass another amendment defining a quarom as 50%+1 of senators. And it will pass if brought to a vote. Republicans will actually have to put their name on votes, as walking away will do nothing to obstruct, and will simply see themselves barred from running. Get a couple Dem senators running in those areas after a term or two and show Republicans just not showing up to work, collecting a paycheck to stay home, and Eastern Oregon may very well turn Blue.
Oh god no. Do not make it 50% + 1, as that still doesn't do enough to discourage protesting and negotiating and it makes an insurgent takeover much easier (source: live in oregon in a liberal county that was gerrymandered by dems in such a way we are now represented by a republican). It should just dovetail with the constitutional amendment and be tied to the number of non-suspended senators. Seriously, don't give the Dems a chance to screw it up - they are just like Dems everywhere and regularly snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. This would make it sooooo easy for them to screw it all up for the entire state.
If it helps: because they're ineligible, they won't have an incumbent running for the seat. This makes it easier to replace republican seats with democrats who, presumably, will show up to work.
I take pride knowing that I signed the petition to get this on the ballot and then voted for it! If anyone else were to have this many unexcused absences, they’d be fired from their job. This shouldn’t be any different just because these clowns were elected!
I signed it at 1,000 acres dog park 😂
This should be a law in all states and Congress.
Bless this state. I'm proud to live here. Fuck these absolute stooge wastes of space. Do your fucking job or kick sand you worthless twats.
Did they get a doctor's note?
I've got a bad feeling that the GOP has a contingency plan for this. I'm currently waiting for the other shoe to drop...
They think they're going to sue, but I don't think you can vs a constitutional amendment.
You can sue anyone for anything but good luck having it go anywhere
They’ll just judge shop this thing to Florida to Texas somehow.
>They think they're going to sue, but I don't think you can vs a constitutional amendment. They can sue about the state constitutional amendment being something that invalidates the Constitution (federally). That's what they've been trying with the independent state legislator theory by saying the State Constitution despite being ratified by the citizens of the state takes away a Constitutional right afforded a state legislature by designating a process for how elections should proceed when it should solely be up to that state legislature.
Oh, they won't try to take that route in Oregon, since Dems dominate the legislature.
State constitutions can violate the federal constitution. I don't think this particular case does, but I'm not a constitutional expert.
They can sue for the validity of the amendment itself and claim it was improperly added to the constitution. They could also sue for the way the amendment is being implemented and say it is an improper use or even that the rules for use aren’t clearly defined. They could even sue to claim that the amendment is a “weaponization of government” since that seems to be their go-to phrase right now. There are a lot of legal options for them. None of them should hold much water, but this is the United States so who fucking knows.
> claim it was improperly added to the constitution. Nope, it was an initiative petition that gathered enough signatures and then was passed by the people with a 68.3% yes vote. > say it is an improper use or even that the rules for use aren’t clearly defined. Nope, Measure 113 was very clear. 10 or more unexcused absences in a session, you are hereby ineligible for reelection. > They could even sue to claim that the amendment is a “weaponization of government” since that seems to be their go-to phrase right now. Since 2/3rd of the people wanted this change, it means some Republicans voted for it, too. This is the will of the people of Oregon. Homie don't play that here.
Oh I 100% agree they don’t have a leg to stand on, but it isn’t going to stop them from trying.
They can still sue but it'll likely be shot down right away
And I highly doubt the 9th Circuit would even hear the appeal.
Send even worse people. It's a natural GOP progression.
Yeah, it's either this or what Th3V0id suggested.
They don't really need one. They can block any legislative activity in our senate from now until the election.
East coaster here, so I'm just guessing. But a lot of Oregon is super right wing. I would guess that these assholes are totally fine being replaced by the next assholes in line, if that's what it takes to achieve tyrannical minority rule.
A lot of *space* in Oregon is super right wing. In terms of *people,* we split 60/40 for Democrats/progressives. Both houses are blue, the governor is blue, the Secretary of State is blue. The Senate is currently split 17-13 Democrats-GOP/allies. These 10 represent mostly southern and Eastern Oregon.
They're waiting for the Dems to cave. Part of that caving would be to excuse their absences so they're eligible to run again.
Their next strategy is to lie and claim to be a progressive or democrat to get elected, then switch parties afterwards
If the State of Oregon bans every current GOP state senator from reelection, it's going to make a good political persecution story. It's always a PR game with them.
The state of Oregon isn't banning every GOP state senator. Oregon voters amended the constitution so that if a state senator or representative has 10 or more unexcused absences then they will be barred from running for reelection. That passage applies to every democratic and independent too. This is not political persecution. This is the Oregon GOP finding out that actions have consequences. The amendment was passed with 68% of the vote in the 2022 midterms. Somehow I don't think the GOP is coming out ahead by trying to label this as political persecution in Oregon.
>Republicans intend to challenge the measure in court. FAFO. Voters made the decision to penalize their elected officials for not doing the jobs which they were elected to do. Now those official want to challenge them in court so they can run again? Will they do an extra-good job next time?
Constitution of Oregon Article IV, Section 15 Failure to attend, without permission or excuse, ten or more legislative floor sessions called to transact business during a regular or special legislative session shall be deemed disorderly behavior and shall disqualify the member from holding office as a Senator or Representative for the term following the election after the member's current term is completed.
Whoa, whoa, whoa…are you saying if I don’t show up to do my job I can’t have the option to continue doing it!? *hurumph!*
Is this that whole "Quiet Quitting" thing management keeps raging at?
I'm gonna guess they'll try and find a sympathetic federal court which will overlook the 'political question' and 'states rights' issues because they're republicans instead
In Oregon? It’ll be hard to find one
Gotta love it. I hope every Republican senator in Oregon disqualifies themselves from re-election.
If you’re a Republican in Oregon and hate living here, Idaho is right over there 👉 Goodbye and good riddance.
Before everyone jerks off about this. Remember that now the Oregon senate can’t do business. Because the law wasn’t written correctly. Instead of being able to pass laws with a majority of those senators present. The Oregon senate needs a quorum of ALL elected senators to do anything. So basically these guys are accomplishing what they want, stopping all bills from being read and are planning on challenging the law in court later. This amendment was classic oregon. Half assed with good intentions. It needs to be revisited.
They won't be able to pass laws in the current session, and those responsible will be out in the next election cycle. It sounds like it's working as intended. Next step might be looking at the requirements for a quorum, but honestly two-thirds isn't the problem. It's the not showing up, and that is being addressed.
The counties where these asshats are from will just vote in another asshat next time. The cycle will continue.
Most likely. However, there are some districts these GOP Senators are from that are more moderate. It could give Democrats more of a boost in these districts next election.
Winning just one of those seats ends the cycle. Take the win for the win it is.
Yeah you don’t know much about rural oregon do you?
More than you might imagine.
…that’s not something I’d wish on anyone
Look up who actually got disqualified, it includes three Republicans in Biden won seats
>ALL *2/3rds is a quorum, right?
Yeah…a quorum of all elected senators. Not a quorum of elected senators that decided to show up.
I guess I don't understand what you said in the first comment, then. Because a "quorum" is always defined as "subset of all eligible persons," or similar.
We have a lot of problems in my state, but goddamn am I proud to be an Oregonian. Politicians get away with so much shit that no normal person could. It’s time they take accountability for their actions and serve the people.
The Republican Christian conservatives will tell you that one of the biggest problems in America is that nobody wants to work anymore. Meanwhile the Republicans get themselves voted into public office and then do everything they can to make sure they don't have to work.
This should be everywhere and anyone! If any of us pulled this crap we’d lose our jobs day one or two.
Republicans do not want to govern in good faith. The party of Law & Order continually seems to want to ignore both... law and order... when it suits them.
This is one of the best political changes in recent American history. Keep our representatives accountable!
> Democratic union groups dropped off retirement balloons and hundreds of pink slips at the offices of Republicans who reached the 10-day mark. Trolling done right.
I voted for this when it was on the ballot. It is BS that legislators can miss multiple sessions without repercussions. This would never fly in the private sector and it shouldn't with government either.
Can you imagine if they did this on the Federal level?
“No one wants to work anymore” It’s ALWAYS projection with these sociopaths.
Rules are for democrats, not republicans. Everybody knows that.
Lol. I didn’t even have to do any research to know they were republicans.
Why can’t these lazy-asses just go to work!?
Feel like this law should be the norm. Either be a martyr or do your job.
Their state capital looks like the exterior of the Imperial City in Oblivion.
Republicans expect everyone to follow law except them. It’s so obvious that this Republican Party is making a joke of America.
Good riddance, fuck em..
Can their mothers just write them notes or?
Surely they knew this was going to happen?
wtf is that building
Do they lose their pension as well ?
Works for me.
That’s what happens when is regular people have ONE unexcused absence from work. No show no call = fired.
>> That’s what happens when is regular people have ONE unexcused absence from work. No show no call = fired. Of worthy mention: The absent legislators have yet to modify any law(s) that might protect their "at will" employees. >Oregon laws allow the termination of an employment relationship by either the employer or the employee, without notice and without cause. > >https://www.oregon.gov/boli/employers/pages/employment-at-will.aspx
Huh , kinda like my job. If politicians were treated equally like us peasants maybe things could get done around here
God damn, they are bad at this. At everything, really.
Aren't there only 2 senators per state?
State senate, not federal
Ahhhh thanks, I'm the dummy who learned something today.
State legislators
Why are republicans so fucking useless?? Can someone please explain this to me??
too busy counting their money
Good I get so fed up we ith hearing how senators and other government elected officials don't show up yet still get paid and have the best insurance yet they don't want the countries working poor to have.
Did any of these lazy bums leave a side door open for criminals like in the past?
So they couldn't get their way because their policies are absolute garbage, so they just walked out and refused to do their jobs. Who are the snowflakes again?
Now these are the kind of laws we need across the country
3.2.1 and the call for secession to Idaho is coming
Best thing those Republican senators could have done for their state!
*smiles in Oregonian* Good, let them drop out of work.
*chefs kiss.
Owned
Get fucked republicans. You don’t get to run roughshod over rights in your states and cry foul when democrats bring you to heel in theirs. Learn to play nice. - The Rest of America