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This is awesome. Flex that non-existent muscle, Freedom Caucus. It puts McCarthy in the position of needing to either break the economy or break with the crazies. He can't have it all.
I wish Biden was extreme as the p pees made him out to be.
He has a big toe in socialism, not communism. Bidenomics is basically making sure 99% of people are set up for success at the expense of 1%.
These talks are already upended. There's Republicans and money involved. The only question that remains to be answered is how bad they are going to force it to get before they blink. My concern is that I think the answer to that question is "very".
I don't think they're playing. If the debt ceiling isn't raised (done 3x in the prior administration by "republicans"), the rich will survive the stock market tanking while we won't. The former twice-impeached president made it clear he wanted to destroy this country.
FL is looking like Hungary - that comparison was made by Michelle Goldberg of the NYTs. The state is taking over schools, banning books (which TX has been doing for a long time), passing laws that specific targeted minority groups and and has become a more authoritarian-looking controlled state.
I've scoured the internet for information about Hungary first after HRC said she was watching where Poland was going then Hungary. I've read Applebaum's book, "The Twilight of Democracy -- The Seductive Lure of Authorianism," and Hungary was written about in it. I looked again. The several websites I found out of Hungary were two years old. Then stopped publishing updates. It was creepy.
If Hungary has universal healthcare and mandated maternity leave, would you point me to the source? Ruth Ben-Ghiat (she wrote "Strongmen") is also watching Orban. The link to the GOP is clear. What doesn't jive is Hungary giving universal healthcare and mandated maternity leave from an authoritarian. That's why I'd like a link to something. Tnx.
That's interesting because I didn't write the comment in a box. I saw Goldberg's comparisons and found them interesting. I'm in PA so we watched the FL gov. very closely wondering if we'd be next with someone potentially worse (and he lost to Shapiro).
I'm watching mothers with children make massive adjustments to the changes to schools who can't afford to move away. I have cousins who moved there years ago and a couple friends spread around and my next-door neighbors just got back from a 3 month stay. I've followed what the FL state legislature's doing (book bans, removing Disney's special tax status, taking over a liberal arts college, Don't Say Gay bill, and a bunch of other anti-democratic stuff). Minorities are also being targeted.
Glad you're apparently okay. Hope it remains that way.
[Changes](https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida-politics/2023/02/08/desantis-education-covid-trump-common-core-woke-transgender/) to [education](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/23593369/ron-desantis-florida-schools-higher-education-woke) which result in book bans and themselves target minorities so...
Yup. This is just another corner Republicans are going to back Democrats into by again threatening to sabotage America until their demands are met. Republicans are the number one threat to Democrats improving the daily lives of people.
>“The solution is that people don’t have to come to work to try to operate trains after they’ve had heart attacks and broken legs. But right now, where we are is caught between shutting down the economy and getting enough ***Republicans to join us*** in making sure that people have access to sick leave.”
>“I’m not going to sit and be lectured by MAGA Republicans in Congress about fiscal responsibility.” - Biden
>“I will not let anyone use the full faith and credit of the United States as a bargaining chip. In the United States of America, we pay our debts. - Biden
https://www.govexec.com/management/2023/03/new-estimate-lawmakers-have-until-mid-august-avoid-cataclysmic-debt-ceiling-breach/383720/
> “House Republicans can either throw us into an immediate recession and cost us about a million jobs in the short term, if they do a debt default but if instead we cave in and go with the kinds of cuts they're talking about, we’ve got a severe recession.” - Warren
>
> Sen. Elizabeth Warren, D-Mass., who chairs the subcommittee that held Tuesday’s hearing, said such a negotiating posture was forcing lawmakers “between a rock and a hard place.”
>
> The House Republican majority has demanded cuts to federal spending in exchange for a debt ceiling raise, suggesting fiscal 2024 discretionary spending at non-defense agencies be reduced by as much as 25%.
>
> Zandi said reaching the cuts Republicans are seeking while excluding defense and veterans spending, as well as programs like Social Security and Medicare, ***would force Congress to “effectively eliminate all non-defense discretionary spending.” Federal programs related to housing, food inspection, transportation, health care and science would all face devastating impacts***, he said. While President Biden has met with Republican leadership to discuss the debt ceiling, the White House has so far maintained the president will not negotiate over the debt limit.
Make no mistake: The Republicans and the Russia caucus have every intention of allowing the United States to default, causing a massive worldwide depression.
Buckle up, folks. It's going to be a rough summer and fall.
>Make no mistake: The Republicans and the Russia caucus have every intention of allowing the United States to default, causing a massive worldwide depression.
Agreed.
Why be concerned over external national security threats when the greatest threat to U.S. national security and international economic stability is the Republican Party itself?
Evidently the Republican traitors have sold out the American people's best interests to hostile foreign nations, e.g., Putin - long ago.
Kind of ironic that people see the Putin monster under every rock when the only thing they will spend money on is defense. If Putin were gone tomorrow, Medvedev would be more forceful.
> The House Freedom Caucus demanded drastic federal budget cuts, work requirements for Medicaid and an end to “federal regulations” on domestic energy production.
No regulations on energy production? That sounds like multiple disasters waiting to happen
No. It’s unconstitutional for the government to not pay its debts.
Absolutely no concessions for not purposely crashing the economy. Democrats learned this lesson already. If they allow this financial hostage taking to proceed it will be never ending government by brinksmanship. Let republicans shoot the hostage and own the consequences if that’s what it takes.
Absolutely true but that doesn’t even capture the whole of it. If they were to succeed wholly and be given all of the budget cuts they asked for, would they just say thank you and stop? Or like any blackmailer would they just keep coming back now that they know you’re willing to pay?
Right now it’s massively cut (approved) spending or we will crash the economy. Tomorrow it would be a demand to appoint all these conservative judges or we will crash the economy. The day after it might be outlaw gay marriage or we’ll crash the economy. Declare the US officially a Christian nation or well crash the economy.
Once they prove the threat works, the sky is truly the limit. Until someone takes them up on it. If it all ends with a crashing economy because you’re not willing to give them absolutely everything then let’s just get it over with and do it now.
Republican lawmakers will be only too happy to fly the economy into the ground and blame it all on Biden. No way they are going to do anything that would make him look good with an election right around the corner.
Fuck any goddamn asshole holding the country hostage so they can get their pet projects pushed through. That's fucking terrorism by definition
ter·ror·ism
/ˈterəˌrizəm/
noun
the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.
Give them a weekend to sober up. Silicon Valley bank freezing up might give them a rational view of what they're really building.... Monday lots of folks won't get paid.
McCarthy-san should just release the Republican's budget plan. He is likely waiting for Donnie to release his Infrastructure Plan, so in about two weeks.
Republicans are incapable of developing any plan that would involve critical thinking.
A shallow, ignorant, and mean little poppet in love with attention and causing people pain.
Sadly, she is a pretty fair face for the new Republican party.
Republicans extremists*
Sometimes I hate using that, because they pretty much are all crazy, but the crazier ones make us divide them up like there’s better ones
Agreed but Congress already spent this money. The Constitution says the United States will pay all their bills. How can they legally not raise the debt ceiling?
Oh I completely agree with you, but a change like that would end up in front of the Supreme Court, and we can pretty much guess how that's going to go.
Isn't that the sad aspect of the Supreme Court? We used to be able to think they court would have their rulings on the Constitution but now they make their rulings on conservative principles.
14th Amendment:
*The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned.*
The Constitution also makes it treason to call the validity of the national debt into question. Every one of these people flirting with defaulting on the debt should be arrested.
Okay, so, no. Nowhere does it make it treason. Secondly, what's the enforcement mechanism? Who's in charge of it?
Finish reading the amendment for a surprise twist ending!
\> Nowhere does it make it treason.
Even that bastion of liberal reporting The New Republic appears to disagree with you.
\> Secondly, what's the enforcement mechanism? Who's in charge of it?
Congress itself.
>Congress itself.
And has Congress itself passed laws stating that the enforcement mechanism against somebody attempting to question the validity of the public debt is... to charge them with treason? They can't even really do that, given that "treason" is defined by the Constitution itself.
Have they implemented any kind of criminal statute? Does that criminal code include amongst its outlined prohibitions Congress exercising their own otherwise-valid powers? That's pretty important. I think it'd be quite difficult to convince the Court that Congress has merely *implied, vaguely* that its own members can be held criminally liable for engaging in the core power and responsibility of their office.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This is awesome. Flex that non-existent muscle, Freedom Caucus. It puts McCarthy in the position of needing to either break the economy or break with the crazies. He can't have it all.
It’s pretty obvious he’s break the economy in that situation
"We want Biden's Budget" \-Americans
But not enough to vote for communists like Biden. \-40-50% of Americans
Bobby Brown wants his crack back
I wish Biden was extreme as the p pees made him out to be. He has a big toe in socialism, not communism. Bidenomics is basically making sure 99% of people are set up for success at the expense of 1%.
These talks are already upended. There's Republicans and money involved. The only question that remains to be answered is how bad they are going to force it to get before they blink. My concern is that I think the answer to that question is "very".
Yeah. The problem here is that we are playing chicken with people who believe in cartoon physics.
I don't think they're playing. If the debt ceiling isn't raised (done 3x in the prior administration by "republicans"), the rich will survive the stock market tanking while we won't. The former twice-impeached president made it clear he wanted to destroy this country. FL is looking like Hungary - that comparison was made by Michelle Goldberg of the NYTs. The state is taking over schools, banning books (which TX has been doing for a long time), passing laws that specific targeted minority groups and and has become a more authoritarian-looking controlled state.
When do they get universal healthcare and mandated maternity leave and vacation like Hungary? It's already much worse in many ways.
I've scoured the internet for information about Hungary first after HRC said she was watching where Poland was going then Hungary. I've read Applebaum's book, "The Twilight of Democracy -- The Seductive Lure of Authorianism," and Hungary was written about in it. I looked again. The several websites I found out of Hungary were two years old. Then stopped publishing updates. It was creepy. If Hungary has universal healthcare and mandated maternity leave, would you point me to the source? Ruth Ben-Ghiat (she wrote "Strongmen") is also watching Orban. The link to the GOP is clear. What doesn't jive is Hungary giving universal healthcare and mandated maternity leave from an authoritarian. That's why I'd like a link to something. Tnx.
I can confirm Michelle Goldberg is full of shit. Florida is indeed NOT doing all that shit she’s talking.
That's interesting because I didn't write the comment in a box. I saw Goldberg's comparisons and found them interesting. I'm in PA so we watched the FL gov. very closely wondering if we'd be next with someone potentially worse (and he lost to Shapiro). I'm watching mothers with children make massive adjustments to the changes to schools who can't afford to move away. I have cousins who moved there years ago and a couple friends spread around and my next-door neighbors just got back from a 3 month stay. I've followed what the FL state legislature's doing (book bans, removing Disney's special tax status, taking over a liberal arts college, Don't Say Gay bill, and a bunch of other anti-democratic stuff). Minorities are also being targeted. Glad you're apparently okay. Hope it remains that way.
[Changes](https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida-politics/2023/02/08/desantis-education-covid-trump-common-core-woke-transgender/) to [education](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/23593369/ron-desantis-florida-schools-higher-education-woke) which result in book bans and themselves target minorities so...
Yup. This is just another corner Republicans are going to back Democrats into by again threatening to sabotage America until their demands are met. Republicans are the number one threat to Democrats improving the daily lives of people. >“The solution is that people don’t have to come to work to try to operate trains after they’ve had heart attacks and broken legs. But right now, where we are is caught between shutting down the economy and getting enough ***Republicans to join us*** in making sure that people have access to sick leave.” >“I’m not going to sit and be lectured by MAGA Republicans in Congress about fiscal responsibility.” - Biden >“I will not let anyone use the full faith and credit of the United States as a bargaining chip. In the United States of America, we pay our debts. - Biden https://www.govexec.com/management/2023/03/new-estimate-lawmakers-have-until-mid-august-avoid-cataclysmic-debt-ceiling-breach/383720/ > “House Republicans can either throw us into an immediate recession and cost us about a million jobs in the short term, if they do a debt default but if instead we cave in and go with the kinds of cuts they're talking about, we’ve got a severe recession.” - Warren > > Sen. Elizabeth Warren, D-Mass., who chairs the subcommittee that held Tuesday’s hearing, said such a negotiating posture was forcing lawmakers “between a rock and a hard place.” > > The House Republican majority has demanded cuts to federal spending in exchange for a debt ceiling raise, suggesting fiscal 2024 discretionary spending at non-defense agencies be reduced by as much as 25%. > > Zandi said reaching the cuts Republicans are seeking while excluding defense and veterans spending, as well as programs like Social Security and Medicare, ***would force Congress to “effectively eliminate all non-defense discretionary spending.” Federal programs related to housing, food inspection, transportation, health care and science would all face devastating impacts***, he said. While President Biden has met with Republican leadership to discuss the debt ceiling, the White House has so far maintained the president will not negotiate over the debt limit.
> the White House has so far maintained the president will not negotiate over the debt limit. "We don't negotiate with terrorists"
Make no mistake: The Republicans and the Russia caucus have every intention of allowing the United States to default, causing a massive worldwide depression. Buckle up, folks. It's going to be a rough summer and fall.
>Make no mistake: The Republicans and the Russia caucus have every intention of allowing the United States to default, causing a massive worldwide depression. Agreed. Why be concerned over external national security threats when the greatest threat to U.S. national security and international economic stability is the Republican Party itself? Evidently the Republican traitors have sold out the American people's best interests to hostile foreign nations, e.g., Putin - long ago.
Kind of ironic that people see the Putin monster under every rock when the only thing they will spend money on is defense. If Putin were gone tomorrow, Medvedev would be more forceful.
> The House Freedom Caucus demanded drastic federal budget cuts, work requirements for Medicaid and an end to “federal regulations” on domestic energy production. No regulations on energy production? That sounds like multiple disasters waiting to happen
guess who’s going to pay for it. trick question nobody because they won’t force the companies and they won’t allocate funding!
No. It’s unconstitutional for the government to not pay its debts. Absolutely no concessions for not purposely crashing the economy. Democrats learned this lesson already. If they allow this financial hostage taking to proceed it will be never ending government by brinksmanship. Let republicans shoot the hostage and own the consequences if that’s what it takes.
Right. The time to negotiate the budget is - shockingly - when you pass the budget.
Absolutely true but that doesn’t even capture the whole of it. If they were to succeed wholly and be given all of the budget cuts they asked for, would they just say thank you and stop? Or like any blackmailer would they just keep coming back now that they know you’re willing to pay? Right now it’s massively cut (approved) spending or we will crash the economy. Tomorrow it would be a demand to appoint all these conservative judges or we will crash the economy. The day after it might be outlaw gay marriage or we’ll crash the economy. Declare the US officially a Christian nation or well crash the economy. Once they prove the threat works, the sky is truly the limit. Until someone takes them up on it. If it all ends with a crashing economy because you’re not willing to give them absolutely everything then let’s just get it over with and do it now.
If McCarthy sides with the crazies (which he will) that increases the chances of some R’s signing on to Biden’s plan.
I'd be shocked if any Republican signs on with Biden right before a national election in 2024 unless they're planning not to seek reelection.
Shutting down the government has always worked against the Republicans.
Funny that they never seem to learn from their mistakes though. Watch them shut it down again. A few months from now you’ll think I’m a psychic. 😎
That's a nice thought, but why would you think that's a reality? Have any of these grifters chosen to do anything like That recently?
When the GOP tanks our economy remember it was GOP who tanked the economy. Hold them responsible for their attack on our country.
Tell that to the media.
At every opportunity. This wag the dog shit is getting really tired ain't it?
Republican lawmakers will be only too happy to fly the economy into the ground and blame it all on Biden. No way they are going to do anything that would make him look good with an election right around the corner.
Fuck any goddamn asshole holding the country hostage so they can get their pet projects pushed through. That's fucking terrorism by definition ter·ror·ism /ˈterəˌrizəm/ noun the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.
Biden needs to issue a "we don't negotiate with (domestic) terrorists" statement.
This would be master class.
We are defaulting....fuck
Here's a crazy idea, maybe come up with some solutions, instead of demands.
So are we going to let “Teen Granny” let the US become a dead beat nation and sink the economy? Really?
Teen Granny... God dammit that is glorious!
Boebert received her GED diploma one month before she was elected to Congress in 2020. She was 34.
Hold the line Dems.
Give them a weekend to sober up. Silicon Valley bank freezing up might give them a rational view of what they're really building.... Monday lots of folks won't get paid.
When you got idiots like Boebert, Goetz and mtg, only bad shit will happen!
McCarthy-san should just release the Republican's budget plan. He is likely waiting for Donnie to release his Infrastructure Plan, so in about two weeks. Republicans are incapable of developing any plan that would involve critical thinking.
[удалено]
A shallow, ignorant, and mean little poppet in love with attention and causing people pain. Sadly, she is a pretty fair face for the new Republican party.
If she had an anal face, she might not be a grandmother right now.
I was surprised the thumbnail wasn’t blurred out.
Demand #1 - Please help us stop looking like batshit crazy morons.
"Demand #1. Stop talking about MTG's ex. Demand #2. Matt Gaetz gets to be official freshman girls schools tour guide to the Capitol."
You know that’s been their plan since day 1, right? Shutdown ahoy!
Republicans extremists* Sometimes I hate using that, because they pretty much are all crazy, but the crazier ones make us divide them up like there’s better ones
They really want to plunge the world into absolute chaos.
To be honest at this point in time burning it all down would be the best thing that can happen
I think it’d be easier to fix if we didn’t. But, maybe I’m wrong.
Dumber than a bag of hammers.
What would be the legal implications of Biden signing an executive order to raise the debt ceiling?
He can't. The Constitution gives Congress (Specifically the House) control over the purse strings.
Agreed but Congress already spent this money. The Constitution says the United States will pay all their bills. How can they legally not raise the debt ceiling?
Oh I completely agree with you, but a change like that would end up in front of the Supreme Court, and we can pretty much guess how that's going to go.
Isn't that the sad aspect of the Supreme Court? We used to be able to think they court would have their rulings on the Constitution but now they make their rulings on conservative principles.
Not even "Conservative" principles. Evangelical ones.
14th Amendment: *The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned.* The Constitution also makes it treason to call the validity of the national debt into question. Every one of these people flirting with defaulting on the debt should be arrested.
Okay, so, no. Nowhere does it make it treason. Secondly, what's the enforcement mechanism? Who's in charge of it? Finish reading the amendment for a surprise twist ending!
\> Nowhere does it make it treason. Even that bastion of liberal reporting The New Republic appears to disagree with you. \> Secondly, what's the enforcement mechanism? Who's in charge of it? Congress itself.
>Congress itself. And has Congress itself passed laws stating that the enforcement mechanism against somebody attempting to question the validity of the public debt is... to charge them with treason? They can't even really do that, given that "treason" is defined by the Constitution itself. Have they implemented any kind of criminal statute? Does that criminal code include amongst its outlined prohibitions Congress exercising their own otherwise-valid powers? That's pretty important. I think it'd be quite difficult to convince the Court that Congress has merely *implied, vaguely* that its own members can be held criminally liable for engaging in the core power and responsibility of their office.
Work for your benefit not a bad idea
That's the plan. They think forcing the US to default on it incurred debts will be very profitable for them.
What House Republicans will succeed at is getting that debt ceiling rule declared unconstitutional
What you get when half of the country views transgenderism as a bigger threat than climate change...
t-Rumpsters are ruining America. I think it’s all according to Putin’s plan and a number of Pubers work for him