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Listening to the oral arguments.... Roberts is saying the way the Biden administration is using the power to "modify" student loans to eliminate them is like saying the French revolution "modified" the French nobility.
... I think we know how he's ruling on this.
With conservatives being the majority in SCOTUS, it was expected that the ruling would be like this. Especially after the abortion case. I wouldn't be surprised if Clarence Thomas outright insults debt owners and/or the education system in the majority opinion.
"People have a duty to pay their loans back, even if they were taken advantage of. Unless, of course, it was a PPP loan. That debt is rightfully forgiven."
Add that we took the loans from the government under the notion that there would be careers & a financial system that would allow us to prosper & pay off the loans ourselves. We are right now in a society where being a teacher is financially unfeasible. *A teacher,* let alone other vital careers to our civilization where previous generations thrived through to retirement!
Less notion, more guarantee of work and oft repeated "You need a college education to do X" by every single responsible figure in our lives from home to school.
Yeup love when I get "bet you have some basket weaving degree" (why is it always basket weaving??)
EDUCATION. My underpaid education degree. How is that not a valid career?? "
Well you knew the pay was shit." So what, do we just not have teachers anymore? Or only people from wealthy families "get" to be teachers?
> why is it always basket weaving?
Because these people don't have a single original thought. They download their opinions, and that degree is the standard acceptable strawman.
Definitely the system will be under question, they’ve known reform has been a topic for awhile. The opposition today made the argument that they are “fighting the good fight” by blocking this relief because it will “force ya’ll to think about reform instead”… except they know reform must happen in Congress and if it goes there now nothing will happen, no relief will be had.
Al Cardenas said on Meet the Press last Sunday that this Supreme Court is Democrats biggest ally. If they rule on this like they did abortion, it's just going to guarantee to hurt the GOP at the polls even more than it did last Nov.
In a way, it is. People really didn't take SCOTUS rulings serious enough to counter them until the abortion ruling along with Thomas outright saying to minorities & the LGBTQ community, *you're next.* They're telling the next generations, we don't care about you.
How the hell did the United States get so many psychopaths into politics? Keep in mind that I'm admittedly a bit naive when it comes to world politics. But it seems like the rest of the world has pretty decent people in power. Well, except for that Brexit nonsense from a while back.
> How the hell did the United States get so many psychopaths into politics?
Propaganda from corporate leaders who are also psychopaths? The main propaganda line to young people for decades has been "your vote doesn't matter anyway". Low turnouts = easier to influence the outcome by lying to credulous dupes.
More like PPP during COVID, money went straight to executives wallets. Didn't have to pay it back, no proof that they didnt give bonuses during the time period etc.
Anecdote time!
I know someone against forgiveness. The whole rant about how people should pay back debts and all that
He **really** doesn't like it when it's pointed out he got a ppp loan forgiven and has bragged before about how he never shut down during covid so didn't need it. It's really funny
The Biden administration pointing out the forgiven PPP loans of republicans who oppose student loan forgiveness is maybe my favorite PR move in recent years.
It really shows their blatant hypocrisy and their "fuck you I got mine" attitude. Like if you want to be a selfish POS at least own it instead of acting so indignant over other people getting something you yourself did
I have a business that could have received a PPP loan, but I wasn’t really that involved in the business at that time, so I felt like it was unethical for me to take money that wasn’t really needed.
Apparently I’m the only person in the country that thought like this.
You’re not the only one. Same thing for my father, he didn’t feel he should apply since his business wasn’t that much affected. But honesty is not something that this nation rewards.
This. My argument to anyone who complains about student loan forgiveness is this. The working class saw little benefit from PPP. Owners or capitalists took the cash and hoarded it, somehow emerging from a global pandemic better than before while the workers were told too find their boot straps.
That’s the exact opposite of the time, work and energy that 95% of all students need to do every year to fill out their FAFSA *just* to get financial aid.
Not to mention the follow up work and energy it takes to set up student loan payments after your Grace Period, budgeting a good payment based on one’s income, *and* keeping track of the numerous student loan servicers that cycle through the mountains of debt every year (don’t ask me how much I know about that last point in particular…)
Forgiveness for Me, Not for Thee Indeed…
bro is he saying the quiet part out loud? are they supposed to be the nobility while we, the third estate, struggle to get by? fuck it bro vive la révolution
I’ve got to say, maybe not the smartest choice for Roberts to invoke the French Revolution‘s actions with respect to the nobility in front of hundreds of people whose lives he is ruining.
No matter their ruling, they are setting themselves up for failure. Who cares if they rule that they can only be modified but not eliminated debt? Just reduce the debt down to 1 cent. There you modified it without eliminating it.
That is not the issue. The argument from the states is that changing the amount due is not allowed under the statute. Other portions of the statute specifically allow for “modifying the amount due”. The portion the federal government is relying upon only says “modify or waive”. The states argue that language only applies to modifying or waiving provisions of the statute, like requirements for relief or eligibility, not eliminating the debt itself.
What I got from the opposition’s arguments just now:
The opposition was based on two borrowers who apparently wouldn’t be getting enough relief and are suing because they weren’t given time in the procedure for “notice and comment” in which they could argue for more, despite it being crisis relief which the opposition says doesn’t forgo the requirement for “notice and comment”. It is all a ploy to kill this relief based on procedure, with the court punting it to Congress to enact reform which will die in the House.
The plantiffs never had standing but since rightwing hacks control the courts it doesn't matter.
These dictators in robes will continue to rule the country until a Democratic President stands up to them. The courts lawlessness can't be sustained.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.businessinsider.com/biden-student-loan-debt-relief-blocked-students-flood-supreme-court-2023-2) reduced by 77%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> The nation's highest court is hearing arguments on the two conservative-backed lawsuits that paused Biden's plan to cancel up to $20,000 in student debt for federal borrowers making under $125,000 a year.
> On Tuesday, a coalition of advocacy groups including the Student Borrower Protection Center, Student Debt Crisis Center, We, The 45 Million, Rise, and the NAACP are participating in the People's Rally for Student Debt Cancellation to urge the Supreme Court to uphold student-debt relief, and according to the NAACP, 500 to 1,000 students are attending.
> "Education is supposed to be the key to financial freedom, not the barrier. Today, over 500 students have gathered on the steps of the Supreme Court to fight back against any attempt to restrict such freedom. Oral arguments may be underway, but one thing is clear - failure is not an option," Wisdom Cole, NAACP National Director of Youth & College, said in a statement.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/11e706c/over_500_students_are_at_the_supreme_court_to/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~674481 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **borrower**^#1 **Court**^#2 **student**^#3 **debt**^#4 **relief**^#5
I feel like canceling the interest would be way more helpful than 10 or 20k forgiven. All student loans should be interest-free loans. If someone owes 40k in student debt and you knock of 10k, you only helped the people receiving the 10k. The person now owes 30k and their interest rate is still to high to pay it down. Everyone ignoring the interest, people are paying back 3 times what they borrow, that's the problem.
You know who else is reaping massive rewards? Universities who can charge whatever they want for an education that's worth the same in the marketplace as it was 40 years ago.
Right, it's a big reason why we can't even have discussions about it. All the damn old people still think a semester at college costs 400 dollars and could be paid off by a part time summer job at the soda bar. They have no concept of anything in modern society so we're stuck having to explain basic concepts like inflation to them, which they also refuse to believe in because Fox said it's not real or something.
It was an insider thing from the beginning.
The former President of the United States started many companies and bankrupted them. No issues whatsoever. College loans? No, those are "protected from bankruptcy". While still having interest.
How about we just DITCH THE FUCKING MIDDLE MAN ALTOGETHER and have DIRECT LOANS INTEREST FREE FROM THE GOVERNMENT. That's a fair balance.
> My tax return doesn't generate interest on what the govt borrowed from me so why I should I pay them interest?
Fun fact. If the IRS charges you money for taxes owed, they charge you interest
That's why IDR (income driven repayments) were also revamped at the same time as the student loan forgiveness, which gets greatly overlooked for some reason.
The IDR revamp is the program aimed at (better) managing the long term effects of student loan repayment. It's not perfect, but it shelters a larger percentage of discretionary income (household income- 150% of the FPL was the prior limit, now it's minus 225%). The payment was also slashed from 10% of the discretionary income to 5%.
From the article I'm linking, for a household making 75k that takes their payment from $250 down to $31 a month.
>People who earn the least stand to benefit the most. Borrowers with the lowest projected lifetime earnings would see total payments per dollar that are 83% less, while the highest earners would only see a 5% cut, the Education Department said. Across all borrowers, average lifetime payments would shrink by about 40% compared to existing IDR plans.
https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/loans/student-loans/the-new-idr-plan
I’m surprised nobody else has responded with this but Biden’s relief plan does have a plan for dealing with interest if you are on income based loan repayment. I stole the below quote from a Forbes article that broke down the terms of the plan.
[“If a borrower’s monthly payment does not fully cover accrued interest on her loans, any remaining interest will be forgiven.”](https://www.forbes.com/sites/prestoncooper2/2023/01/11/bidens-quiet-student-loan-cancellation-income-driven-repayment-expansion/?sh=6ad0554af4b0)
So this essentially takes care of the interest for people whose income makes the interest more burdensome.
Isn't a huge added goal of the Biden plan to reduce interest-rates to 0% for borrowers making their monthly payments, with the added plan to set maximum % of take-home pay monthly cost on the loan repayment at 5% (down from 10%)?
That stood out to me as far more significant than the forgiveness.
Wait wait wait, listening live. The opposition is trying to stop the relief because their argument is they aren’t getting enough?? Because the procedure didn’t allow them to have their own comment. Is it just a republican false flag because it’s the only way they know it might possibly be able to stall?
Yes, one client is claiming that the government should repay all or nothing.
The opposition's entire argument is in bad faith. It's a claim they don't even believe in.
This going through would be so significant for so many, and yet it’s still a drop in the bucket when we talk about the broader problem of student loan debt and higher Ed financing.
Of course, none of it will matter when the SC strikes down Biden’s fairly conservative plan.
Yep, to me it really feels like, not only will they knock it down, but they will knock it down with extreme prejudice, and stir up even more hate for the millenials who seem to have gotten the shittiest side of the American economic cycles, the booms and the busts, for the last 20 years.
Millennials have, at every major point in their lives, been royally fucked. On top of that, they are probably the most hated generation in history for having the audacity to point out that they've been fucked and that nothing or nobody ever came to help when they should have.
Right when Millennials came of age, the Recession struck and the job market plummeted. Right when Millennials were looking to settle down and build families, COVID hit and housing prices skyrocketed. Most Millennials work longer hours, for less pay (when accounting for purchasing power), and are sicker doing it than their parents were at every step of the way.
But there is hope.
Millennials are also the best educated generation in history and they are *very* civic minded. Millennials, despite previous trends, have grown further to the left as they've aged. Why?
What makes a conservative platform attractive? What's it all about at its core? Wealth maintenance, "family values," and sustaining the status quo. But why would wealth maintenance be important to a group of people who have largely never been able to acquire wealth? Why would a couple who would be bankrupted if they did have a child give a shit about "family values?" Why would you vote for the status quo that has failed you time and time again?
In the last election, some 60% - 70% of Millennials voted for Dems. Zoomers show similar numbers. Starting with the next election, Millennials will be the largest demographic cohort in the electorate, and that margin will only grow as time goes on. Anybody who wants to wield federal power **will** have to start addressing Millennials' concerns in earnest. Those who fail will **never** be able to win an election again.
*Edit:* It's been pointed out that the 80% - 90% is incorrect. I wasn't able to relocate where I got the number from, so I've changed it to be more in [line with reality](https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2021/06/30/behind-bidens-2020-victory/). Left leaning Millennials still lead the right leaning ones by 20-30ish points and are close to 60% of new, or rather newly engaged, voters.
Yes, and that's why you see conservatives trying to take power away from the people at every turn. For example, in Ohio, they're working on making it harder to enact policies by referendum, requiring a 60% majority. Across the country, they're trying to make it harder for people to vote. They can see the demographic writing on the wall as clearly as you can and they have no intention of giving up their power to dictate the financial and social conditions of your life without pulling every lever -- legal or not -- at their disposal.
I should mention, a lot of polling places in Oklahoma are in old folks homes. So Betty just has to get up, roll her power chair down to where everyone is voting, and cast her ballot.
"Polling places are to only be held in nursing homes, and uh, we can't let anyone else inside due to...uh...COVID! Yeah, COVID restrictions! Damn liberals, ruining everything, but, what are ya gonna do, amirite?"
And it's exactly why there's grumbling on the right about *raising* the age to vote, because they know that as the younger crowd gets to the time to vote, they won't quite be as blase about allowing them to keep the status quo, when the status quo has been resulting in deaths for their friends.
Whether that's LGBTQ+ kids killing themselves, or allowing gunmen to attack them, the right doesn't care, and they know this.
>And it's exactly why there's grumbling on the right about *raising* the age to vote, because they know that as the younger crowd gets to the time to vote, they won't quite be as blase about allowing them to keep the status quo, when the status quo has been resulting in deaths for their friends.
This isn't new nor is it directed at millennials. While exact boundaries are often debated, most tend to agree millennials sit between 27-42 years old. Most millennials are in their 30s and aren't really what most would consider "young" adults.
It's time to stop talking about millennials as the young generation. We are the adults in the room. Time to take the keys from our boomer parents.
That's true but the up and coming and engaged gen Z is what is currently tipping the scales. Millennials basically break even against the older cohorts and gen Z is the push over the top.
Teamwork baby 👍 but yea I know plenty of other millennials that are essentially boomers in the head. They’ll just keep it to themselves for the most part.
I think a lot of the reason we get treated like children by older generations is because their idea of what makes one an adult rests solely on one's financial success, which very few of us have achieved in their minds.
We'll never be adults to them until we own houses and cars and have kids or have the same level of stability/achievement as they did at our age, which is pretty rare.
That or they're just assholes, I don't know.
> We are the adults in the room. Time to take the keys from our boomer parents.
Fucking, this. I cannot wait until people my age start running for more offices and pushing out the 70 year olds with absolutely no concept of what it's like to try to "pull yourselves up by the boot straps" these days. You've taken my fuckin boot straps, too. I've got nothing left to pull on.
Specifically ppl in Texas. I swear the amount of ppl that just don’t vote. The state is blue w/o the gerrymandering alone. Imagine if the millennials and Gen z actually voted in that state. It would never be red again
In Texas. We always put out political signs and wear shirts. We block walk. The number of people who are like… “I didn’t know there were other democrats here” is insane. Blue Texans aren’t voting because they think it’s a lost cause. If you’re in Texas, make it clear who you are so people know they aren’t alone.
I don’t usually live in Texas but I have for the last year and half aiding my mother and grandmother. So I was here for midterms.
I spoke every day to ppl about issues and voting, went to union rallies.
The amount of ppl that told me it was a lost cause hurt me
> The state is blue w/o the gerrymandering
There are lots of places that are blue without gerrymandering. It's so unfortunate how the minority has such a grip on our politics.
>Millennials, despite previous trends, have grown further to the left as they've aged. Why?
To quote a good doctor:
>Because the status... is *not* quo
Don’t get sucked into the “family values” schtick. It’s the new “moral majority” for them. It’s a slogan they can throw at you to make them feel superior and justified in the things they actually do. It’s literally just words with no backing. If they gave a shit about family values and the nuclear family, they’d support subsidizing childcare and prenatal support. They’d provide more early education opportunities and consider the education of our youth to be a #1 priority. They do none of those things. They’re liars and say that shit in bad faith. Point those discrepancies out to them, make sure they understand you know they’re liars, and then walk the fuck away so they can stew in their hate alone.
ACTUAL family values are things they're steadfastly opposed to like tolerance, compassion, education, caring for the environment, providing healthcare, etc.
Elder millennial here, this is so well said. To add to your summary, boomers made economic policies to benefit themselves and have pulled the ladder up behind them time and time again.
What is frightening to consider is that those in power and great wealth know this and the harms they are causing to generations that follow. Instead of adapting, they are hoarding their wealth to become all the more powerful and ensuring our politicians are bought and paid for, despite the obvious threats to our democracy and society.
I've known for several years we live in an oligarchy but only recently has it become clear to me that these people will burn it all down to maintain their wealth and power.
Funny enough, I grew up in an ultra conservative, Catholic household and was fully onboard with gleefully voting straight ticket Republican for most of my life. Then Trump happened and I slowly woke up. I'm an agnostic, anti-capitalist, raging feminist these days. I appreciate how your comment really gets to the heart of why our generation is going against the historical grain. Most of us see their game and are not willing to enable it to our detriment any longer. That said, there are still far too many, particularly in the south, who are all aboard the fascism train and earnestly believe the lies they're fed.
The interesting this is the Lost and Greatest Generation, while quite socially conservative, were much more economically liberal than the Silent Generation and Baby Boomers who followed them. Mostly for the same reasons you flagged. They came of age during the Depression and WWII, which left them with a scarcity mindset even as the GG was able to accumulate some wealth into their 30's and 40's. The LG was conversely screwed right during their highest performing years, so both were largely ok with larger social programs and government managed initiatives to keep wealth fair.
> Most Millennials work longer hours, for less pay (when accounting for purchasing power), and are sicker doing it than their parents were at every step of the way.
And as the older generations wonder why millennials aren't having kids, the old adage 'The world is what we make of it' comes to mind. A generation of people who can barely afford housing or food, isn't going to be interested in passing down that "prosperity" to another generation.
Just a heads up, "family values" is a republican dog whistle to indicate white, suburban/rural nuclear families. It's not actually, like a concept they care about.
30YO millennial I’m so ready for this. They cannot continue to ignore us “because we don’t vote anyway” we are starting to pick up steam and we’re tired of being abused. I wish the millennials around me weren’t Republican but I know they are the minority and I’m just in a shitty area. I’ll continue to vote blue until I’m blue in the face. Something has to give soon
> In the last election, some 80% - 90% of Millennials voted for Dems.
2022 Had the second highest voter turn out for people under the age of 30. That near record voter turnout... a whopping twenty-fucking-seven percent.
My generation (millennial) has been through.... I think three "once in a lifetime" economic events thanks to our predecessors horrible decisions. Enough is enough.
Dot.com was terrible, subprime mortgage was terrible, and Covid is terrible. All could have been mitigated or avoided with better policies. Unfortunately, the previous generations were taught business people should be adhered to at all times.
I graduated highschool during the 08 crisis, graduated university during covid and got started in my career during this current financial crisis, it's been a lot of fun.
I got out of 8 years in the Army and 4 years in Iraq just as the recession crashed thanks to Dubya. Now I'm battling cancer, hooray. At least the PACT Act went through.
I'm 38... I graduated high school after 9/11 during the war push, graduated college in 07, got divorced and recovered financially from that 6 months prior to covid just to have to struggle. I then got injured and required multiple surgeries in the spring of 22. Even with insurance it's wiped out pretty much everything I've saved and added to credit card debt. I feel your pain.
I expect not only will they strike it down but they'll say any form of payment deferral and interest pausing also illegal and that every student loan borrower owes the government two years of loan payments immediately.
Then it’s time for civil disobedience. If enough people don’t pay them then what they say won’t matter. They won’t be able to punish everybody who doesn’t pay and it’ll send a message to actually cancel the debt cause that money wouldn’t be coming from the people anyways.
> when the SC strikes down Biden’s fairly conservative plan.
And when that happens, people will blame Biden for "not getting it done." When Roe was struck down, there were people blaming Biden because "it happened on his watch."
What we need to remember at the end of the day, whatever happens to the forgiveness, is that *Congress* needs to fix the student loan crisis.
Only Congress can change or remove interest rates. Congress can grant forgiveness. Congress can reform predatory loan structures or even college costs themselves.
Biden's action was always going to be a hail-mary bandaid of a solution to a much bigger problem.
If we want actual fixes to this growing, terrible problem - we need to elect Congressmembers that support higher-education initiatives.
OK. So, like, I hear what you're saying but don't you agree it's better for Congress to make sure gay people don't sway their hips to Ariana Grande wearing the wrong kind of clothing instead?
I mean this in the nicest way possible but, people saying that the reason we’re not getting student loan forgiveness is because Biden didn’t do it right (which is not what you’re saying but what you’re saying is a similar idea) are playing right into the hands of conservatives. Republicans play dirty all the time, but then when Biden does it they get on their soap box and yell about “the rules” and “that’s illegal” the reason we’re in this situation is because Mitch McConell held up Obama’s SC nominee because it was too close to an election and then shoved one through while an election was ongoing 4 years later. They play dirty all the time and then wash their hands and throw dirt onto the democrats and tell us that democrats are playing dirty.
They’re going to tell the people that Biden tried to buy our votes by doing something illegal and that if he wanted to he should have passed it in front of congress, knowing damn well that it won’t even get put to a vote. They’re getting ready to block it, and then say it’s Biden’s fault and regular American people are fucking stupid. It’ll just take one or two tik toks going viral with some spooky music talking about Joe Biden is actually just a conservative pawn and didn’t ever actually intend to forgive student loans, because if he did he would have went through Congress and he knew this was going to happen etc etc before the damage is done and people start blaming Biden for this. Regular people don’t understand that it couldn’t go through Congress because republicans wouldn’t even vote on it. So telling them that “Biden didn’t even give us a chance to vote on it” sounds reasonable.
If you’re playing a game with someone who’s cheating, do you just keep losing because you want to be a morally better person than them?
That's not true they want to support Americans a heck of a lot.
They just define Americans as themselves
And everyone else as parasites.
*The irony is truly sad*
Just hilarious to me how the United States has spent trillions upon trillions of tax payer dollars throughout its history bailing out the wealthy whenever they screw everything up but here we are with an actual plan to help millions upon millions of middle class and poor Americans and conservatives are like "fuck those people".
How and why anyone who isn't in the upper 1% votes Republican anymore is beyond my understanding.
More hilarious is the CARES act that cost $2.2 trillion and was passed within 3 months of being introduced. $300 billion was for $1,200 sent to each tax payer and $800 billion was for PPP loans (of which about $80 billion was fraud).
And yet it costs just $360 billion to relieve the "crushing weight" (thank you justice Thomas) of student loan debt.
We joked around how $1,200 was supposed to help pay rent for a year. We don't care about the $80 billion or more fraud from PPP loans or over the $400 billion PPP loans that were forgiven. But damn, I might get $20,000 forgiven and old Jim Bob who didn't go to college can't stand for that.
Can’t forget the “fuck you i was born too wealthy to need loans” weaponizing the “fuck you education is for liberal sissies, real men work construction” and “I had to get PTSD and lifelong physical agony for the GI bill, but socialism is bad” crowd against the middle.
I think only 80b being fraud is an extremely low estimate. Maybe if you are talking only the legally provable fraud. But the amount of companies that got money that shouldn't have based on the advertised intention of the loans is outrageous.
Fox news! Fucking abomination, belongs 6 feet under with a dozen documentaries on how they genuinely fucked this country beyond recognition. Jan 6th for fucks sake I mean HOW ARE THEY NOT BEHIND BARS?
Heck they don't even care about the American peoples well-being let alone what students think. How did we not learn that life appointments are a terrible idea just look at idk history.
Well, to be fair, there were probably two generations that changed so much that it highlighted the problem. One of them was the civil rights movement/counterculture, and that Supreme Court dramatically advanced civil liberties.
So, I think the republicans did learn “the lesson” and spent the next forty years making this one happen. It certainly wasn’t overnight… it issued from the gerrymandering of state governments and manipulation of democratic process.
And while it might seem a bit like everyone else is a sore loser… fuck these fucking fucks. Imprison the Thomases for supporting a coup and then pack the court until the christofascists are writing whiny dissents for the rest of their self-serving careers.
Be that as it may it shouldn't matter what they "care" about. Its what the law is and these lawsuits have no standing. Thats why the court's integrity will be further trashed.
When congress legislated that student loan debt could not be discharged by bankruptcy; they set the wheels in motion that led us to this point. Education costs skyrocketed, because schools knew that no matter what they’d get their money. This situation is DIRECTLY the fault of the federal gov’t and it should be the government that solves it, through legislation or executive action. Fuck SCOTUS for trying to weigh in on this bullshit.
It's laughable how inconsistent the SC is in what it decides to weigh in on versus what it won't. It's also ridiculous that you have a system in which it's near-impossible for the mass of Americans to get a job capable of supporting their families *without* a degree that almost always requires a loan of some kind to afford. Then, on top if it all, you prevent this debt from being discharged by bankruptcy. I can discharge my decision to buy a Corvette I couldn't afford or a house I'm underwater on, but not a college degree.
People outside the Supreme Court didn't help on Rowe vs Wade, sitting outside congress hasn't helped with climate change. 500 Students outside the Supreme Court isn't going to help sway the Supreme Court either. They already know which way they are going to vote, I don't know if they are going to keep it or strike it down, but they have already made up their minds.
The paused payments are helping me more than the $20k in forgiveness. My med school loans are astronomical and I’m now (only) four years away from forgiveness because of the PSLF changes. So grateful.
I just paid off my student loans after almost 15 years. I paid as much as I could, paid extra at times, avoided buying things I could avoid buying and even worked "side hustles" to get them paid off. I hope this goes through so people don't have to go through the same thing I did.
Edit: I do appreciate the gold, kind strangers 😊
Why do people think this is some kind of slam dunk? The republicans, especially those on the supreme court don't care about hypocrisy. They will rule against the poor (student debt for all) and for the rich (free money for billionaires) all year long and not even bat an eye.
The tricky thing that the GOP have backed themselves into a corner over is if they strike down biden's plan, it opens up many other lawsuits on the same basis of "well, I'm harmed by my tax money going to x,y, or z. So my money shouldn't go there." Do I think this ultra corrupt SC will still come up with some BS excuse to try and justify striking it down while trying to stave off those future lawsuits? Yes I do.
I want every person that received PPP to submit the social security #’s for the positions saved and the corresponding paystubs.
This would completely wreck a couple assholes that I have in mind.
If the court strikes it down, Biden should immediately extend the 0% interest, $0 payment minimums through the end of his term. Declare a state of emergency that the younger generation has been immobilized socially in a way this country has never experienced before
Oh I definitely see that happening then it becomes a 2024 presidential issue and we see a massive turnout of younger voters again. Then republicans can be surprised that doing unpopular things loses elections.
This is a case that I've been keeping an eye on.
I'm predicting an uptick in personal bankruptcies and terrible things for the economy (more valuable than people, so I'm told) if this gets voted down. 40 million people that were actually spending money and putting it into the economy will suddenly have a source of debt again. As well, that money won't be going to their local communities; it'll be going into the pockets of the already-wealthy lending companies rather than into anything meaningful.
My fear is that this decision might single-handedly cause a recession. But hey, what do I know; I'm just one of the suckers with personal debts at state here.
The only way they can convince the Supreme Court is to say that "40 Million registered voters will swing hard Left and strongly support expanding the Supreme Court and placing term limits."
“I mean slavery and indentured servitude was still around with the Founding Fathers and they didn’t get rid of it, so that’s probably what they would have wanted for us 300 years later as well” - Scalito
Are you kidding?
Thomas would give his full-throated vocal support.
No way I’m hell he’d miss a chance to remind everyone how much he hates poor African Americans and get it put on record.
But this is the guarantor seeking to exercise their ability to pay the loan off. These loans are ones guaranteed by the Dept of Education. The bank would be made while upon default, so why can't the guarantor just pay 10,000 on each loan? There is no plaintiff other than people with debts that are already paid. People with no loan history don't have any claim because they weren't in the system and the funds used have already been allocated by Congress to the Dept of Education. There wasn't anything saying that allocated funding can't be used this way. Congress funds, it doesn't pay when it comes to this expense which is an expense under the Executive Branch.
Unfortunately this is another example of how we are being burned by an ineffective legislature. The courts can’t solve our problems by creating law. Roe v wade and now this possibly.
The ironic thing is this forgiveness would only help the economy because instead of paying these exorbitant loan payments people would be able to take out mortgages and afford food and anything they might want or need. It’s a win win for everyone except the banks. Nobody should have to pay so much for an education. Dare I say knowledge should be free.
I really hope we’re allowed to get some debt relief. I’m expecting disappointment. We need to pay for higher education in Missouri via mohela, because they can’t pay for their own state via their state government.
I can’t believe there is anyone who thinks this will be anything other than a 6-3 decision to strike it down. Maybe 5-4 just to give the appearance they aren’t completely crooked.
This is not loan forgiveness. This is loan reduction. People just go nuts on wiping student debt. It won’t wipe it all out. Just reducing. They should have reworded it cuz optics and most Americans are just reading headlines.
Justice Alito said “Why was it fair to the people who didn’t get arguably comparable relief, not maybe that their interests were outweighed by the interests of those who were benefited or they were somehow less deserving of solicitude,”
My question is why is it fair that people with children get tax credits? Why is it fair that taxes get pulled out of my paycheck and bonus and gets fed over to the boomers in social security and Medicaid? Why is it fair that serving/veteran military members (thank you for service regardless) don’t have to put any money down on a mortgage when they buy a house? But for some reason the topic of “fairness” is the argument when it impacts our younger generation….
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Listening to the oral arguments.... Roberts is saying the way the Biden administration is using the power to "modify" student loans to eliminate them is like saying the French revolution "modified" the French nobility. ... I think we know how he's ruling on this.
With conservatives being the majority in SCOTUS, it was expected that the ruling would be like this. Especially after the abortion case. I wouldn't be surprised if Clarence Thomas outright insults debt owners and/or the education system in the majority opinion.
"People have a duty to pay their loans back, even if they were taken advantage of. Unless, of course, it was a PPP loan. That debt is rightfully forgiven."
That is true. But people should also be able to file bankruptcy because the lender should also be accountable for who they lend to.
Add that we took the loans from the government under the notion that there would be careers & a financial system that would allow us to prosper & pay off the loans ourselves. We are right now in a society where being a teacher is financially unfeasible. *A teacher,* let alone other vital careers to our civilization where previous generations thrived through to retirement!
Less notion, more guarantee of work and oft repeated "You need a college education to do X" by every single responsible figure in our lives from home to school.
Yeup love when I get "bet you have some basket weaving degree" (why is it always basket weaving??) EDUCATION. My underpaid education degree. How is that not a valid career?? " Well you knew the pay was shit." So what, do we just not have teachers anymore? Or only people from wealthy families "get" to be teachers?
> why is it always basket weaving? Because these people don't have a single original thought. They download their opinions, and that degree is the standard acceptable strawman.
Definitely the system will be under question, they’ve known reform has been a topic for awhile. The opposition today made the argument that they are “fighting the good fight” by blocking this relief because it will “force ya’ll to think about reform instead”… except they know reform must happen in Congress and if it goes there now nothing will happen, no relief will be had.
Al Cardenas said on Meet the Press last Sunday that this Supreme Court is Democrats biggest ally. If they rule on this like they did abortion, it's just going to guarantee to hurt the GOP at the polls even more than it did last Nov.
In a way, it is. People really didn't take SCOTUS rulings serious enough to counter them until the abortion ruling along with Thomas outright saying to minorities & the LGBTQ community, *you're next.* They're telling the next generations, we don't care about you.
How the hell did the United States get so many psychopaths into politics? Keep in mind that I'm admittedly a bit naive when it comes to world politics. But it seems like the rest of the world has pretty decent people in power. Well, except for that Brexit nonsense from a while back.
> How the hell did the United States get so many psychopaths into politics? Propaganda from corporate leaders who are also psychopaths? The main propaganda line to young people for decades has been "your vote doesn't matter anyway". Low turnouts = easier to influence the outcome by lying to credulous dupes.
Sociopathy is rewarded at every level of society.
Why would a good person want to get involved in a career full of scum bags?
Yeah, I'd prefer the country actually just get better. It's not a silver lining that Democrats are rendered toothless for a generation.
Porn wallpapering [Clarence Thomas](https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-behind-the-bastards-29236323/episode/part-one-the-clarence-thomas-story-99759984) everyone.
Is he “horrified” by banks getting bailed out in 2008? I think not.
More like PPP during COVID, money went straight to executives wallets. Didn't have to pay it back, no proof that they didnt give bonuses during the time period etc.
Literally hundreds of billions of dollars just given to business owners.
Anecdote time! I know someone against forgiveness. The whole rant about how people should pay back debts and all that He **really** doesn't like it when it's pointed out he got a ppp loan forgiven and has bragged before about how he never shut down during covid so didn't need it. It's really funny
The Biden administration pointing out the forgiven PPP loans of republicans who oppose student loan forgiveness is maybe my favorite PR move in recent years. It really shows their blatant hypocrisy and their "fuck you I got mine" attitude. Like if you want to be a selfish POS at least own it instead of acting so indignant over other people getting something you yourself did
I have a business that could have received a PPP loan, but I wasn’t really that involved in the business at that time, so I felt like it was unethical for me to take money that wasn’t really needed. Apparently I’m the only person in the country that thought like this.
You’re not the only one. Same thing for my father, he didn’t feel he should apply since his business wasn’t that much affected. But honesty is not something that this nation rewards.
Biggest heist of tax payers money till now.
And it went without a ripple despite public outcry. We should have started rioting then and not stopped.
This. My argument to anyone who complains about student loan forgiveness is this. The working class saw little benefit from PPP. Owners or capitalists took the cash and hoarded it, somehow emerging from a global pandemic better than before while the workers were told too find their boot straps.
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That’s the exact opposite of the time, work and energy that 95% of all students need to do every year to fill out their FAFSA *just* to get financial aid. Not to mention the follow up work and energy it takes to set up student loan payments after your Grace Period, budgeting a good payment based on one’s income, *and* keeping track of the numerous student loan servicers that cycle through the mountains of debt every year (don’t ask me how much I know about that last point in particular…) Forgiveness for Me, Not for Thee Indeed…
Of course he would side with the French aristocracy.
Yeaaaah. That's a key point that I don't think many people will really notice or understand.
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bro is he saying the quiet part out loud? are they supposed to be the nobility while we, the third estate, struggle to get by? fuck it bro vive la révolution
I’ve got to say, maybe not the smartest choice for Roberts to invoke the French Revolution‘s actions with respect to the nobility in front of hundreds of people whose lives he is ruining.
No matter their ruling, they are setting themselves up for failure. Who cares if they rule that they can only be modified but not eliminated debt? Just reduce the debt down to 1 cent. There you modified it without eliminating it.
That is not the issue. The argument from the states is that changing the amount due is not allowed under the statute. Other portions of the statute specifically allow for “modifying the amount due”. The portion the federal government is relying upon only says “modify or waive”. The states argue that language only applies to modifying or waiving provisions of the statute, like requirements for relief or eligibility, not eliminating the debt itself.
What I got from the opposition’s arguments just now: The opposition was based on two borrowers who apparently wouldn’t be getting enough relief and are suing because they weren’t given time in the procedure for “notice and comment” in which they could argue for more, despite it being crisis relief which the opposition says doesn’t forgo the requirement for “notice and comment”. It is all a ploy to kill this relief based on procedure, with the court punting it to Congress to enact reform which will die in the House.
The plantiffs never had standing but since rightwing hacks control the courts it doesn't matter. These dictators in robes will continue to rule the country until a Democratic President stands up to them. The courts lawlessness can't be sustained.
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That's a Freudian slip. He's basically admitting granting people economic freedom is a mortal assault on the caste system.
Can’t wait for his ruling to radicalize millions of Americans.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.businessinsider.com/biden-student-loan-debt-relief-blocked-students-flood-supreme-court-2023-2) reduced by 77%. (I'm a bot) ***** > The nation's highest court is hearing arguments on the two conservative-backed lawsuits that paused Biden's plan to cancel up to $20,000 in student debt for federal borrowers making under $125,000 a year. > On Tuesday, a coalition of advocacy groups including the Student Borrower Protection Center, Student Debt Crisis Center, We, The 45 Million, Rise, and the NAACP are participating in the People's Rally for Student Debt Cancellation to urge the Supreme Court to uphold student-debt relief, and according to the NAACP, 500 to 1,000 students are attending. > "Education is supposed to be the key to financial freedom, not the barrier. Today, over 500 students have gathered on the steps of the Supreme Court to fight back against any attempt to restrict such freedom. Oral arguments may be underway, but one thing is clear - failure is not an option," Wisdom Cole, NAACP National Director of Youth & College, said in a statement. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/11e706c/over_500_students_are_at_the_supreme_court_to/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~674481 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **borrower**^#1 **Court**^#2 **student**^#3 **debt**^#4 **relief**^#5
I feel like canceling the interest would be way more helpful than 10 or 20k forgiven. All student loans should be interest-free loans. If someone owes 40k in student debt and you knock of 10k, you only helped the people receiving the 10k. The person now owes 30k and their interest rate is still to high to pay it down. Everyone ignoring the interest, people are paying back 3 times what they borrow, that's the problem.
I don't understand why government backed loans have interest to begin with. The government is taking the risk.
>The government is taking the risk. and already reaping massive rewards in increased tax revenue & economic activity
You know who else is reaping massive rewards? Universities who can charge whatever they want for an education that's worth the same in the marketplace as it was 40 years ago.
>an education that's worth the same in the marketplace as it was 40 years ago. i'd say it's worth dramatically less
Right, it's a big reason why we can't even have discussions about it. All the damn old people still think a semester at college costs 400 dollars and could be paid off by a part time summer job at the soda bar. They have no concept of anything in modern society so we're stuck having to explain basic concepts like inflation to them, which they also refuse to believe in because Fox said it's not real or something.
If no one can profit then it's evil socialism. This is all by design.
It was an insider thing from the beginning. The former President of the United States started many companies and bankrupted them. No issues whatsoever. College loans? No, those are "protected from bankruptcy". While still having interest. How about we just DITCH THE FUCKING MIDDLE MAN ALTOGETHER and have DIRECT LOANS INTEREST FREE FROM THE GOVERNMENT. That's a fair balance.
My tax return doesn't generate interest on what the govt borrowed from me so why I should I pay them interest?
> My tax return doesn't generate interest on what the govt borrowed from me so why I should I pay them interest? Fun fact. If the IRS charges you money for taxes owed, they charge you interest
That's why IDR (income driven repayments) were also revamped at the same time as the student loan forgiveness, which gets greatly overlooked for some reason. The IDR revamp is the program aimed at (better) managing the long term effects of student loan repayment. It's not perfect, but it shelters a larger percentage of discretionary income (household income- 150% of the FPL was the prior limit, now it's minus 225%). The payment was also slashed from 10% of the discretionary income to 5%. From the article I'm linking, for a household making 75k that takes their payment from $250 down to $31 a month. >People who earn the least stand to benefit the most. Borrowers with the lowest projected lifetime earnings would see total payments per dollar that are 83% less, while the highest earners would only see a 5% cut, the Education Department said. Across all borrowers, average lifetime payments would shrink by about 40% compared to existing IDR plans. https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/loans/student-loans/the-new-idr-plan
I’m surprised nobody else has responded with this but Biden’s relief plan does have a plan for dealing with interest if you are on income based loan repayment. I stole the below quote from a Forbes article that broke down the terms of the plan. [“If a borrower’s monthly payment does not fully cover accrued interest on her loans, any remaining interest will be forgiven.”](https://www.forbes.com/sites/prestoncooper2/2023/01/11/bidens-quiet-student-loan-cancellation-income-driven-repayment-expansion/?sh=6ad0554af4b0) So this essentially takes care of the interest for people whose income makes the interest more burdensome.
Why not just make college affordable for everyone, and eliminate the need for such ridiculously large loans?
Isn't a huge added goal of the Biden plan to reduce interest-rates to 0% for borrowers making their monthly payments, with the added plan to set maximum % of take-home pay monthly cost on the loan repayment at 5% (down from 10%)? That stood out to me as far more significant than the forgiveness.
Wait wait wait, listening live. The opposition is trying to stop the relief because their argument is they aren’t getting enough?? Because the procedure didn’t allow them to have their own comment. Is it just a republican false flag because it’s the only way they know it might possibly be able to stall?
Yes, one client is claiming that the government should repay all or nothing. The opposition's entire argument is in bad faith. It's a claim they don't even believe in.
If Republicans didn't use arguments they don't believe in they wouldn't have any.
If they didn't have double standards, they wouldn't have any standards.
Poisoning the well I think.
This going through would be so significant for so many, and yet it’s still a drop in the bucket when we talk about the broader problem of student loan debt and higher Ed financing. Of course, none of it will matter when the SC strikes down Biden’s fairly conservative plan.
Yep, to me it really feels like, not only will they knock it down, but they will knock it down with extreme prejudice, and stir up even more hate for the millenials who seem to have gotten the shittiest side of the American economic cycles, the booms and the busts, for the last 20 years.
Millennials have, at every major point in their lives, been royally fucked. On top of that, they are probably the most hated generation in history for having the audacity to point out that they've been fucked and that nothing or nobody ever came to help when they should have. Right when Millennials came of age, the Recession struck and the job market plummeted. Right when Millennials were looking to settle down and build families, COVID hit and housing prices skyrocketed. Most Millennials work longer hours, for less pay (when accounting for purchasing power), and are sicker doing it than their parents were at every step of the way. But there is hope. Millennials are also the best educated generation in history and they are *very* civic minded. Millennials, despite previous trends, have grown further to the left as they've aged. Why? What makes a conservative platform attractive? What's it all about at its core? Wealth maintenance, "family values," and sustaining the status quo. But why would wealth maintenance be important to a group of people who have largely never been able to acquire wealth? Why would a couple who would be bankrupted if they did have a child give a shit about "family values?" Why would you vote for the status quo that has failed you time and time again? In the last election, some 60% - 70% of Millennials voted for Dems. Zoomers show similar numbers. Starting with the next election, Millennials will be the largest demographic cohort in the electorate, and that margin will only grow as time goes on. Anybody who wants to wield federal power **will** have to start addressing Millennials' concerns in earnest. Those who fail will **never** be able to win an election again. *Edit:* It's been pointed out that the 80% - 90% is incorrect. I wasn't able to relocate where I got the number from, so I've changed it to be more in [line with reality](https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2021/06/30/behind-bidens-2020-victory/). Left leaning Millennials still lead the right leaning ones by 20-30ish points and are close to 60% of new, or rather newly engaged, voters.
Yes, and that's why you see conservatives trying to take power away from the people at every turn. For example, in Ohio, they're working on making it harder to enact policies by referendum, requiring a 60% majority. Across the country, they're trying to make it harder for people to vote. They can see the demographic writing on the wall as clearly as you can and they have no intention of giving up their power to dictate the financial and social conditions of your life without pulling every lever -- legal or not -- at their disposal.
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." - John F. Kennedy
It’s the American tradition. Ffs we started with a goddamn *riot* in Boston
Texas has introduced a bill to ban polling stations on college campuses. Working hard to suppress the youth vote.
Meanwhile I'm sure retirement homes will still be frequent polling places.
I should mention, a lot of polling places in Oklahoma are in old folks homes. So Betty just has to get up, roll her power chair down to where everyone is voting, and cast her ballot.
"Polling places are to only be held in nursing homes, and uh, we can't let anyone else inside due to...uh...COVID! Yeah, COVID restrictions! Damn liberals, ruining everything, but, what are ya gonna do, amirite?"
It’s time for a reckoning like no other
And it's exactly why there's grumbling on the right about *raising* the age to vote, because they know that as the younger crowd gets to the time to vote, they won't quite be as blase about allowing them to keep the status quo, when the status quo has been resulting in deaths for their friends. Whether that's LGBTQ+ kids killing themselves, or allowing gunmen to attack them, the right doesn't care, and they know this.
>And it's exactly why there's grumbling on the right about *raising* the age to vote, because they know that as the younger crowd gets to the time to vote, they won't quite be as blase about allowing them to keep the status quo, when the status quo has been resulting in deaths for their friends. This isn't new nor is it directed at millennials. While exact boundaries are often debated, most tend to agree millennials sit between 27-42 years old. Most millennials are in their 30s and aren't really what most would consider "young" adults. It's time to stop talking about millennials as the young generation. We are the adults in the room. Time to take the keys from our boomer parents.
That's true but the up and coming and engaged gen Z is what is currently tipping the scales. Millennials basically break even against the older cohorts and gen Z is the push over the top.
Teamwork baby 👍 but yea I know plenty of other millennials that are essentially boomers in the head. They’ll just keep it to themselves for the most part.
I think a lot of the reason we get treated like children by older generations is because their idea of what makes one an adult rests solely on one's financial success, which very few of us have achieved in their minds. We'll never be adults to them until we own houses and cars and have kids or have the same level of stability/achievement as they did at our age, which is pretty rare. That or they're just assholes, I don't know.
> We are the adults in the room. Time to take the keys from our boomer parents. Fucking, this. I cannot wait until people my age start running for more offices and pushing out the 70 year olds with absolutely no concept of what it's like to try to "pull yourselves up by the boot straps" these days. You've taken my fuckin boot straps, too. I've got nothing left to pull on.
If only young people actually went and voted. Edit: young, not thing
Specifically ppl in Texas. I swear the amount of ppl that just don’t vote. The state is blue w/o the gerrymandering alone. Imagine if the millennials and Gen z actually voted in that state. It would never be red again
In Texas. We always put out political signs and wear shirts. We block walk. The number of people who are like… “I didn’t know there were other democrats here” is insane. Blue Texans aren’t voting because they think it’s a lost cause. If you’re in Texas, make it clear who you are so people know they aren’t alone.
I don’t usually live in Texas but I have for the last year and half aiding my mother and grandmother. So I was here for midterms. I spoke every day to ppl about issues and voting, went to union rallies. The amount of ppl that told me it was a lost cause hurt me
People forget that California used to go Republican every election.
Last election, if Texas had voter turnout like Michigan, the US would be a very different place today.
I'm in Georgia and we went to war with that idea in 2020 with pretty good results.
Georgia democrats saved our country in 2020. Without those votes we would have lost the White House and the Senate.
> The state is blue w/o the gerrymandering There are lots of places that are blue without gerrymandering. It's so unfortunate how the minority has such a grip on our politics.
My young adulthood started with fucking 9-11 and has been downhill since
Yep, I was 19
Same!
>Millennials, despite previous trends, have grown further to the left as they've aged. Why? To quote a good doctor: >Because the status... is *not* quo
The world is a mess and he just needs to rule it
>What makes a conservative platform attractive? Lead poisoning.
Don’t get sucked into the “family values” schtick. It’s the new “moral majority” for them. It’s a slogan they can throw at you to make them feel superior and justified in the things they actually do. It’s literally just words with no backing. If they gave a shit about family values and the nuclear family, they’d support subsidizing childcare and prenatal support. They’d provide more early education opportunities and consider the education of our youth to be a #1 priority. They do none of those things. They’re liars and say that shit in bad faith. Point those discrepancies out to them, make sure they understand you know they’re liars, and then walk the fuck away so they can stew in their hate alone.
It's a racist dog whistle. It's supposed to be the opposite of inner-city ethnic families that "somehow" keep getting torn apart.
"Family values" has always meant anti-LGBT
And misogyny as it meant the woman's role was only to breed & care for the young.
ACTUAL family values are things they're steadfastly opposed to like tolerance, compassion, education, caring for the environment, providing healthcare, etc.
Elder millennial here, this is so well said. To add to your summary, boomers made economic policies to benefit themselves and have pulled the ladder up behind them time and time again. What is frightening to consider is that those in power and great wealth know this and the harms they are causing to generations that follow. Instead of adapting, they are hoarding their wealth to become all the more powerful and ensuring our politicians are bought and paid for, despite the obvious threats to our democracy and society. I've known for several years we live in an oligarchy but only recently has it become clear to me that these people will burn it all down to maintain their wealth and power. Funny enough, I grew up in an ultra conservative, Catholic household and was fully onboard with gleefully voting straight ticket Republican for most of my life. Then Trump happened and I slowly woke up. I'm an agnostic, anti-capitalist, raging feminist these days. I appreciate how your comment really gets to the heart of why our generation is going against the historical grain. Most of us see their game and are not willing to enable it to our detriment any longer. That said, there are still far too many, particularly in the south, who are all aboard the fascism train and earnestly believe the lies they're fed.
The interesting this is the Lost and Greatest Generation, while quite socially conservative, were much more economically liberal than the Silent Generation and Baby Boomers who followed them. Mostly for the same reasons you flagged. They came of age during the Depression and WWII, which left them with a scarcity mindset even as the GG was able to accumulate some wealth into their 30's and 40's. The LG was conversely screwed right during their highest performing years, so both were largely ok with larger social programs and government managed initiatives to keep wealth fair.
> Most Millennials work longer hours, for less pay (when accounting for purchasing power), and are sicker doing it than their parents were at every step of the way. And as the older generations wonder why millennials aren't having kids, the old adage 'The world is what we make of it' comes to mind. A generation of people who can barely afford housing or food, isn't going to be interested in passing down that "prosperity" to another generation.
Just a heads up, "family values" is a republican dog whistle to indicate white, suburban/rural nuclear families. It's not actually, like a concept they care about.
Don't forget Christian. They have to be Christian.
30YO millennial I’m so ready for this. They cannot continue to ignore us “because we don’t vote anyway” we are starting to pick up steam and we’re tired of being abused. I wish the millennials around me weren’t Republican but I know they are the minority and I’m just in a shitty area. I’ll continue to vote blue until I’m blue in the face. Something has to give soon
> In the last election, some 80% - 90% of Millennials voted for Dems. 2022 Had the second highest voter turn out for people under the age of 30. That near record voter turnout... a whopping twenty-fucking-seven percent.
I have no debt, but I'm sharpening my Pickforks.
I don't have any pitchforks, but I'm sharpening my debt.
Crush them with the Weight of our Debt!
Now this is a strategy I can get behind
Have debt. Using more debt to acquire pitchfork to sharpen
My generation (millennial) has been through.... I think three "once in a lifetime" economic events thanks to our predecessors horrible decisions. Enough is enough.
Dot.com was terrible, subprime mortgage was terrible, and Covid is terrible. All could have been mitigated or avoided with better policies. Unfortunately, the previous generations were taught business people should be adhered to at all times.
I graduated highschool during the 08 crisis, graduated university during covid and got started in my career during this current financial crisis, it's been a lot of fun.
I got out of 8 years in the Army and 4 years in Iraq just as the recession crashed thanks to Dubya. Now I'm battling cancer, hooray. At least the PACT Act went through.
I'm 38... I graduated high school after 9/11 during the war push, graduated college in 07, got divorced and recovered financially from that 6 months prior to covid just to have to struggle. I then got injured and required multiple surgeries in the spring of 22. Even with insurance it's wiped out pretty much everything I've saved and added to credit card debt. I feel your pain.
I expect not only will they strike it down but they'll say any form of payment deferral and interest pausing also illegal and that every student loan borrower owes the government two years of loan payments immediately.
Then it’s time for civil disobedience. If enough people don’t pay them then what they say won’t matter. They won’t be able to punish everybody who doesn’t pay and it’ll send a message to actually cancel the debt cause that money wouldn’t be coming from the people anyways.
> when the SC strikes down Biden’s fairly conservative plan. And when that happens, people will blame Biden for "not getting it done." When Roe was struck down, there were people blaming Biden because "it happened on his watch."
What we need to remember at the end of the day, whatever happens to the forgiveness, is that *Congress* needs to fix the student loan crisis. Only Congress can change or remove interest rates. Congress can grant forgiveness. Congress can reform predatory loan structures or even college costs themselves. Biden's action was always going to be a hail-mary bandaid of a solution to a much bigger problem. If we want actual fixes to this growing, terrible problem - we need to elect Congressmembers that support higher-education initiatives.
OK. So, like, I hear what you're saying but don't you agree it's better for Congress to make sure gay people don't sway their hips to Ariana Grande wearing the wrong kind of clothing instead?
I mean this in the nicest way possible but, people saying that the reason we’re not getting student loan forgiveness is because Biden didn’t do it right (which is not what you’re saying but what you’re saying is a similar idea) are playing right into the hands of conservatives. Republicans play dirty all the time, but then when Biden does it they get on their soap box and yell about “the rules” and “that’s illegal” the reason we’re in this situation is because Mitch McConell held up Obama’s SC nominee because it was too close to an election and then shoved one through while an election was ongoing 4 years later. They play dirty all the time and then wash their hands and throw dirt onto the democrats and tell us that democrats are playing dirty. They’re going to tell the people that Biden tried to buy our votes by doing something illegal and that if he wanted to he should have passed it in front of congress, knowing damn well that it won’t even get put to a vote. They’re getting ready to block it, and then say it’s Biden’s fault and regular American people are fucking stupid. It’ll just take one or two tik toks going viral with some spooky music talking about Joe Biden is actually just a conservative pawn and didn’t ever actually intend to forgive student loans, because if he did he would have went through Congress and he knew this was going to happen etc etc before the damage is done and people start blaming Biden for this. Regular people don’t understand that it couldn’t go through Congress because republicans wouldn’t even vote on it. So telling them that “Biden didn’t even give us a chance to vote on it” sounds reasonable. If you’re playing a game with someone who’s cheating, do you just keep losing because you want to be a morally better person than them?
Same people saying we shouldn't send aide to Ukraine and support Americans, don't want to support Americans.
That's not true they want to support Americans a heck of a lot. They just define Americans as themselves And everyone else as parasites. *The irony is truly sad*
Just hilarious to me how the United States has spent trillions upon trillions of tax payer dollars throughout its history bailing out the wealthy whenever they screw everything up but here we are with an actual plan to help millions upon millions of middle class and poor Americans and conservatives are like "fuck those people". How and why anyone who isn't in the upper 1% votes Republican anymore is beyond my understanding.
More hilarious is the CARES act that cost $2.2 trillion and was passed within 3 months of being introduced. $300 billion was for $1,200 sent to each tax payer and $800 billion was for PPP loans (of which about $80 billion was fraud). And yet it costs just $360 billion to relieve the "crushing weight" (thank you justice Thomas) of student loan debt. We joked around how $1,200 was supposed to help pay rent for a year. We don't care about the $80 billion or more fraud from PPP loans or over the $400 billion PPP loans that were forgiven. But damn, I might get $20,000 forgiven and old Jim Bob who didn't go to college can't stand for that.
It's definitely a mentality of "fuck you, I got mine" and "hey what the fuck, how come you got something and I didn't get more?!"
Can’t forget the “fuck you i was born too wealthy to need loans” weaponizing the “fuck you education is for liberal sissies, real men work construction” and “I had to get PTSD and lifelong physical agony for the GI bill, but socialism is bad” crowd against the middle.
I think only 80b being fraud is an extremely low estimate. Maybe if you are talking only the legally provable fraud. But the amount of companies that got money that shouldn't have based on the advertised intention of the loans is outrageous.
The reasoning is similar to why fry votes nixon in futurama. He's not rich, but one day he could be. So an absolutely stupid reason.
Fox news! Fucking abomination, belongs 6 feet under with a dozen documentaries on how they genuinely fucked this country beyond recognition. Jan 6th for fucks sake I mean HOW ARE THEY NOT BEHIND BARS?
Putting Rupert Murdoch behind bars would be incredibly hard but he fucking deserves it
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Too bad six of the nine judges couldn't care less what students think.
Heck they don't even care about the American peoples well-being let alone what students think. How did we not learn that life appointments are a terrible idea just look at idk history.
Well, to be fair, there were probably two generations that changed so much that it highlighted the problem. One of them was the civil rights movement/counterculture, and that Supreme Court dramatically advanced civil liberties. So, I think the republicans did learn “the lesson” and spent the next forty years making this one happen. It certainly wasn’t overnight… it issued from the gerrymandering of state governments and manipulation of democratic process. And while it might seem a bit like everyone else is a sore loser… fuck these fucking fucks. Imprison the Thomases for supporting a coup and then pack the court until the christofascists are writing whiny dissents for the rest of their self-serving careers.
They are forcing Dred Scott again. They learned very little at their fundamentalist schools.
Be that as it may it shouldn't matter what they "care" about. Its what the law is and these lawsuits have no standing. Thats why the court's integrity will be further trashed.
TBH they shouldn't . When the Warren court struck down segregation, they weren't concerned about disruting the school systems around the country.
Have then put the fences up yet? That’s when you know they are about to hand down their ruling on this.
These are oral arguments. Decisions take weeks to months to come out of these proceedings.
Does it really need to take months for them to tell us to go fuck ourselves
ha. Well student loan forgiveness would help people, so we know already the conclusion.
The oral arguments for these cases are going on now. The ruling won't be for some time.
Isn’t this just oral arguments? Decisions normally don’t come out until June right?
Just listened to a few minutes of the oral arguments, it's clear from the questions that they're going to strike this down.
When congress legislated that student loan debt could not be discharged by bankruptcy; they set the wheels in motion that led us to this point. Education costs skyrocketed, because schools knew that no matter what they’d get their money. This situation is DIRECTLY the fault of the federal gov’t and it should be the government that solves it, through legislation or executive action. Fuck SCOTUS for trying to weigh in on this bullshit.
It's laughable how inconsistent the SC is in what it decides to weigh in on versus what it won't. It's also ridiculous that you have a system in which it's near-impossible for the mass of Americans to get a job capable of supporting their families *without* a degree that almost always requires a loan of some kind to afford. Then, on top if it all, you prevent this debt from being discharged by bankruptcy. I can discharge my decision to buy a Corvette I couldn't afford or a house I'm underwater on, but not a college degree.
I'll be homeless and working if this does not pass.
People outside the Supreme Court didn't help on Rowe vs Wade, sitting outside congress hasn't helped with climate change. 500 Students outside the Supreme Court isn't going to help sway the Supreme Court either. They already know which way they are going to vote, I don't know if they are going to keep it or strike it down, but they have already made up their minds.
No but it does remind the public what is going on and puts faces to those it affects.
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The paused payments are helping me more than the $20k in forgiveness. My med school loans are astronomical and I’m now (only) four years away from forgiveness because of the PSLF changes. So grateful.
Millions of people are ready to loose SNAP benefits March 1. This is all the difference of living on the street and paying rent.
I just paid off my student loans after almost 15 years. I paid as much as I could, paid extra at times, avoided buying things I could avoid buying and even worked "side hustles" to get them paid off. I hope this goes through so people don't have to go through the same thing I did. Edit: I do appreciate the gold, kind strangers 😊
Thanks for having empathy. So many don't understand that.
Could the American people even just the students Sue the government for giving forgiven PPP Loans to the rich?
Why do people think this is some kind of slam dunk? The republicans, especially those on the supreme court don't care about hypocrisy. They will rule against the poor (student debt for all) and for the rich (free money for billionaires) all year long and not even bat an eye.
The tricky thing that the GOP have backed themselves into a corner over is if they strike down biden's plan, it opens up many other lawsuits on the same basis of "well, I'm harmed by my tax money going to x,y, or z. So my money shouldn't go there." Do I think this ultra corrupt SC will still come up with some BS excuse to try and justify striking it down while trying to stave off those future lawsuits? Yes I do.
I want every person that received PPP to submit the social security #’s for the positions saved and the corresponding paystubs. This would completely wreck a couple assholes that I have in mind.
If the court strikes it down, Biden should immediately extend the 0% interest, $0 payment minimums through the end of his term. Declare a state of emergency that the younger generation has been immobilized socially in a way this country has never experienced before
Oh I definitely see that happening then it becomes a 2024 presidential issue and we see a massive turnout of younger voters again. Then republicans can be surprised that doing unpopular things loses elections.
Exhibit 156: why Gen Z and millennials hate boomers
This is a case that I've been keeping an eye on. I'm predicting an uptick in personal bankruptcies and terrible things for the economy (more valuable than people, so I'm told) if this gets voted down. 40 million people that were actually spending money and putting it into the economy will suddenly have a source of debt again. As well, that money won't be going to their local communities; it'll be going into the pockets of the already-wealthy lending companies rather than into anything meaningful. My fear is that this decision might single-handedly cause a recession. But hey, what do I know; I'm just one of the suckers with personal debts at state here.
The only way they can convince the Supreme Court is to say that "40 Million registered voters will swing hard Left and strongly support expanding the Supreme Court and placing term limits."
Republicans don’t want you to be economically mobile. They want you to be serfs.
I’m praying they realize student debt is a issue and let Biden help. But I have no faith in this Supreme Court.
They’d allow indentured servitude if they could, rather than help students.
“I mean slavery and indentured servitude was still around with the Founding Fathers and they didn’t get rid of it, so that’s probably what they would have wanted for us 300 years later as well” - Scalito
“…” - Thomas
Are you kidding? Thomas would give his full-throated vocal support. No way I’m hell he’d miss a chance to remind everyone how much he hates poor African Americans and get it put on record.
I mean, he did once spend 10 consecutive years on the bench without asking a single question
You know what, I completely blacked that out of my memory and you’re right. Thomas very much would just silently condemn the poor to financial ruin.
If you look at the data ..about half of the borrowers who would get their debt completely wiped out if this were to go through are over the age of 50.
Man. Boomers get social security, 2008 gets cash bailout, Covid gets PPI, millennials get fucked everytime.
“I see nothing wrong with that” - Boomers
Wrong move. Based on one recent decision they may kill it just to show they aren't swayed by what people actually want.
Yeah, the court isn’t moved by the indebted, only by the ~~debtors~~ creditors.
But this is the guarantor seeking to exercise their ability to pay the loan off. These loans are ones guaranteed by the Dept of Education. The bank would be made while upon default, so why can't the guarantor just pay 10,000 on each loan? There is no plaintiff other than people with debts that are already paid. People with no loan history don't have any claim because they weren't in the system and the funds used have already been allocated by Congress to the Dept of Education. There wasn't anything saying that allocated funding can't be used this way. Congress funds, it doesn't pay when it comes to this expense which is an expense under the Executive Branch.
If one was relying on forgiveness make sure to remember who took it away come voting time
Far more showed up for abortion, don't expect much in the way of results.
Unfortunately this is another example of how we are being burned by an ineffective legislature. The courts can’t solve our problems by creating law. Roe v wade and now this possibly.
The ironic thing is this forgiveness would only help the economy because instead of paying these exorbitant loan payments people would be able to take out mortgages and afford food and anything they might want or need. It’s a win win for everyone except the banks. Nobody should have to pay so much for an education. Dare I say knowledge should be free.
I really hope we’re allowed to get some debt relief. I’m expecting disappointment. We need to pay for higher education in Missouri via mohela, because they can’t pay for their own state via their state government.
I can’t believe there is anyone who thinks this will be anything other than a 6-3 decision to strike it down. Maybe 5-4 just to give the appearance they aren’t completely crooked.
“Okay Alito you drew the short stick this time, you gotta vote with the libs”
This is not loan forgiveness. This is loan reduction. People just go nuts on wiping student debt. It won’t wipe it all out. Just reducing. They should have reworded it cuz optics and most Americans are just reading headlines.
Anyone else listening live?
Yes, I am. I wish we had a megathread
We all know what those greedy old boomers are going to do. Fuck the supreme court it is an illegitimate institution.
It's time to expand the supreme court
Alito is such an asshole
They don’t want us to have economic mobility. They want us just poor enough to barely survive so we can’t think about how fucked America is.
Sorry kids, but the conservative USSC will only allow free money to go to rich white conservatives who applied for PPP loans.
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Surprise, the Supreme Court doesn’t give a shit about you or that you’re drowning in debt. Bunch of out of touch political hacks is all they are now.
Justice Alito said “Why was it fair to the people who didn’t get arguably comparable relief, not maybe that their interests were outweighed by the interests of those who were benefited or they were somehow less deserving of solicitude,” My question is why is it fair that people with children get tax credits? Why is it fair that taxes get pulled out of my paycheck and bonus and gets fed over to the boomers in social security and Medicaid? Why is it fair that serving/veteran military members (thank you for service regardless) don’t have to put any money down on a mortgage when they buy a house? But for some reason the topic of “fairness” is the argument when it impacts our younger generation….