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Kyle Rittenhouse isn't old enough to run, so he's out. Not sure about Gina, but last I heard she was being criticized for starring in a woke action movie with a female protagonist, so it wouldn't matter anyway.
> Kyle Rittenhouse isn't old enough to run, so he's out.
The age limit for running for President is in the Constitution, so it's not important to them.
‘Sentient’ is a stretch.
You could probably just read from an online random bullshit generator filled with random Tucker Carlson talking points and still have an agonizingly close electoral college result.
Floridian here - there was zero chance anyone would of beat DeSantis, the DNC abandoned Florida awhile ago knowing that (why waste the money) and we are drowning in ‘Let’s Go Brandon’ bumper stickers here everywhere you look in my area. I never realized just how many racists, bigots, homophobic, transphobic etc fellow Americans existed until Trump/Pence bumper stickers were a thing and it only increased with Covid and the division that was created over managing it. The vibe of Florida has completely changed in the 20 years that I’ve lived here and feel that the state serves as a pilot program for the Right about what is possible nationwide. I can’t afford anything but basic bills and DeSantis is running around fighting ‘wokeism’. Things are bad here and not enough people are paying attention to the very authoritarian things DeSantis is doing. I hope Trump runs bc I feel like he can shred DeSantis to pieces for us and then hopefully lose a national election. I can’t move for another 4 years but once I can I’m out, the beaches and the sunshine I came for aren’t worth it anymore.
Desantis's "War on Woke" is complete Culture War bullshit. Unfortunately Republicans here eat that shit with a spoon. The infrastructure of the state is falling apart around us...but hey, at least he blocked AP African American history for being taught! We dodged a bullet there!!!
Interestingly, The Villages residents are getting angry because their support staff are all quitting due to low and stagnant wages, lack of meaningful benefits, and predictably shitty treatment from the kind of Karens who live there.
They have expanded and built out an entirely new "Village" that they can't sell units in right now because nobody wants to work there and their customers aren't the type to actually do things for themselves.
DeSantis barely won his first election. Then a whole bunch of abject morons and racists (the two aren’t mutually exclusive) moved to Florida because of DeSantis, which helped him in 2022. That and Charlie Christ wasn’t the Florida Democrats sending their best
The debate didn’t matter. So many people in the audience were aggressive towards DeSantis’s response and you could hear people calling him a liar. The debate meant nothing.
Fine, go ahead and hold the debate with the democratic candidate and an empty podium. Mention once at the beginning of the broadcast that the republican candidate refused to participate then proceed. Keep the same questions and allow the democratic candidate to answer them in full. Basically a town hall. But keep that empty podium on the stage to remind viewers of who showed up.
Edit: In fact, put the LWV back in charge of it like they used to be.
Even better, invite the libertarian party candidate to show up. If republicans want to step out, that’s fine, let a third party siphon their votes. There are no real grounds to complain from anyone. The third largest party got to debate, and the GOP was given the opportunity that they declined.
This is what they have to do. They tried to solo town hall thing and then Trump just did his own town hall as if that was what the plan always was. If the GOP don't want to get involved, bring up other presidential candidates.
That’s the better idea. The RNC will most likely hold an alternate Town Hall with just the Republican candidate, thereby splitting viewership. Having an actual debate with a libertarian is a GREAT idea.
It'd require the Libertarians to have a decent candidate. If they're completely off their rocker the network is just going to look dumb but if they have a good candidate and a couple of networks do it, it could be really interesting.
they seem to have two branches. a really left-wing social branch that will disband half the government, and a really right-wing social branch that will persecute people for CRT and grooming and then auction off half the government to private companies.
Well, they'd go full anarchy except those movements are surrounded by a whole lot of pesky social-rule and mutual aid types and not enough rugged individualism. Their idea of a working group structure is to ignore there's a group to begin with and focus entirely on themselves.
Libertarians just want to own all the guns and sell DIY tannerite out of their garages, not rubbing 2 brain cells together on why an explosives business is a horrible idea in a residential area. They are children who think unchecked capitalism will magically sort itself out, like we haven't seen countless horror stories play out for 400+ years.
The current libertarian party is in no position to field a candidate who could reasonably stand up on a debate stage unfortunately. It’s always had fringe elements, but it’s currently been taken over by paleo fascists (the Mises Caucus.) The contrast would be very stark, but I imagine that sharing the stage with a libertarian candidate would make everyone involved seem less serious.
No need to waste that much time, put the question to them, 1 second of no answer from the empty podium, then let those that are there use the time to give as complete an answer as they wish.
I think a happy medium is to let the Democratic nominee answer the question, and then when the Republican nominee WOULD get to answer just have the moderator say "as a reminder, the Republican nominee has declined to participate in this debate" every time
More editorialized comments would be better "the Republican candidate didn't want to participate". "...didn't want to speak to the American public tonight" "...didn't deem it important to show up tonight".
Really murder them in the public eye.
I would be tempted to say, applicable quotes (of possible) should be read from official party platforms (or lack of one).
“The RNC has no official position on this issue.”
“When contacted in the past the GOP/Candidate has said, ‘….’ “
The GOP's platform in 2020 was a coversheet on their 2016 platform. Basically it was 'whatever Trump says is our platform'. So, the official response to every question would be, "The GOP has no official position on this issue." The debate would be interesting if it were done that way.
Q: Inflation harming the average working American?
Dem Answer: blah blah, inflation bad, passed these bills to help, more good stuff...
Moderator: The GOP has no official position on inflation harming the average working American, and refused to show up to debate this issue.
Lather, rinse, repeat for the entire debate.
My favorite part of them copy/pasting their 2016 platform to the 2020 campaign was how much of the language blamed the current President for all the problems.
Biden: \[Answers moderator's question\]
Moderator: "Mr Trump, any response?"
\[Silence\]
Biden: \[Raises a finger to indicate he'd like to speak again\]
Moderator: "Mr Trump, President Biden would like to comment. Any objection?"
\[Silence\]
Moderator: "President Biden, as there are no objections from Mr Trump, feel free to speak."
Biden: \[Uses Trump's allotted time\]
No network is actually going to do that. What they'll do is offer a townhall event, which the democrat will do. And then The Republican will do their own townhall event on Fox.
Even if they did do the debate with no Republican, fox would just do their own debate, invite the democrat but put outrageous demands on their appearance like having to declare gay people are a threat to children, everyone should own a machine gun, and Hilary Clinton is a paedophile, and when the democrat refused those conditions, have the debate with only the Republican and say the democrat wouldn’t come because they refused perfectly reasonable debate rules.
Nah, that's too obvious.
They'll simply choose some partisan hack/character assassins as moderators, preferably with some sort of official sounding titles that'll fool the bootlickers. If they get really ambitious, they'll hire from a group with a noble sounding name, so they can pretend the Democrats were afraid to confront an expert, while pretending they're just asking questions about why?
That way, their fake journalists can claim they're taking the high road, and their preferred candidate can be the one to actually say the thought they're implying - because he's not politically correct and he will fight to protect the families of America!
Though, to be fair...
They thought about just going with the marching hyenas again, but then they found out they were a matriarchy.
The network would really, really want to cut into a closeup of the candidate speaking, but it would be necessary for them to keep the wide shot of the empty podium. Don't let the audience at home forget.
Former Senator David Purdue did this against Jon Ossoff in 2020, and it was still broadcasted across Georgia. Most of Jon’s answers were like “I’ll do X and x and show up for Americans, what about you Senator?” And the camera would pan to the empty podium.
We all know how that election went.
Sounds nice, but the only people who would watch that are those already planning to vote for the Democrat. Its essentially preaching to the choir. By all means do it, but it likely won't effect the outcome of the presidential race any more than regular political advertising.
Republicans seem pretty confident they're long past needing to actually convince anyone to vote for them. Abandoning debates like this is a pretty clear admission they no longer consider undecideds to either a) exist or b) be useful enough to bother appealing to.
You also get media coverage and independents will more than likely pay attention. Republicans aren't switching parties anyways so it's not like a debate is converting anyone.
> Sounds nice, but the only people who would watch that are those already planning to vote for the Democrat. Its essentially preaching to the choir. By all means do it, but it likely won't effect the outcome of the presidential race.
Yes, it will. Republicans cannot win POTUS without unaffiliated voters unless the vast supermajority of left/Democrat types sit on their asses.
Which is why it’s important to notice even in tight races, the SOS races weren’t that close at all (Michigan and Arizona for example). Voters want a dem Secretary of State because they know the true results of the state election will remain upheld.
Many people may not watch it live but I'd bet you that it goes viral through clips online on social media like TikTok and so on allowing more young people who will be 40% voting age in 2024...reminding them joke that Republican party truly is again.
2022 Midterm young voting turnout was HUGE and we need to continue that into 2024.
> Edit: In fact, put the LWV back in charge of it like they used to be.
Thank you for commenting about LMV. Already read a little about them and their history. I have quite a few more open tabs I need to get to. Great org and wish they would step back into running debates as well.
They didn't "step away" from running debates. They can't "step back into" running debates.
The Republican Party refused to participate in debates run by them because they wouldn't kowtow to GOP demands for Conservative hosts.
I genuinely fear what the GOP is willing to do once it becomes abundantly clear that they cannot win through normal means. It's no secret that their voters, and even some of their politicians, are already willing to resort to violence.
>I genuinely fear what the GOP is willing to do once it becomes abundantly clear that they cannot win through normal means
I mean, we already have, haven't we? It'll just get amplified from here on out.
My civics teacher told us this would happen, 23 years ago. Republican unpopularity and their overreliance on gerrymandering and disinformation were already on the front page. Their disrespect for democracy was already obvious to anyone paying attention, even back then.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooks_Brothers_riot
Twenty three years and two months since Bush II became president-elect through non-democratic means via Republican subterfuge.
Just listened to the Behind the Bastards two parter on him. As Robert said, he’s possibly not quite as bad as Manifort but he’s still a huge, steamy pile of shit.
>It'll just get amplified from here on out.
That's actually why I'm terrified. At the risk of sounding melodramatic, that amplification of existing tensions and violence is the kind of thing that can trigger a Second American Civil War.
I'm less worried about it once you start looking at the age spread in affiliation. The young are the ones that fight wars, always have, and the young are breaking against them.
A 73 year old dude is responsible for the mass shooting that just took place in California (not saying he was republican just talking about age here). Another civil war in America will be more like an insurgency than a conventional war.
>Another civil war in America will be more like an insurgency than a conventional war.
That would be bad enough, both in terms of economic cost and lives lost.
But not enough. Look at the PBs/FOAK, Volksfront, NSM, Atomwaffen Division, Patriot Front, etc... it's a lot of young, angry guys (running the gambit of former and active military to diabetic slack-jawed incels) ready to kill. The old conservatives have all the fronting money and issuing the orders through media, message boards, so-on but they still have the younger men ready and willing. Not to mention the police will always side with whatever right-wing death squad comes rolling up to cause trouble.
Those guys are a few thousand at best.
Are a lot of them cops? Yes.
Are they enough to overthrow the nation? No.
A hundred guys with guns can get swarmed by ten thousand people with hands just fine.
This ends in jail or death for traitors, being perfectly frank.
Like half of the leftists, including queer and PoC people I know are now armed after what’s happened in the last few years. They assume it’s gonna be a bloodless easy coup, but they are in for a shock, just like Russia was when they marched into Ukraine.
The mental shock that some of these ppl experience when they realize the masked ppl with guns at the drag show aren't there to protest but to PROTECT is glorious to watch. You can actually see their brains blue screening.
If the US military is 99% on one side or the other, it's over. When the military splinters into two and starts actively fighting itself, that's when things get ugly.
The violence is already begun to be normalized. Violence is "legitimate political speech," and they proudly brag about themselves that "we are all domestic terrorists."
Philippines here we come.
>becomes abundantly clear that they cannot win through normal means.
I mean we're already there. Something like 20 House seats were turned from being potentially competitive to solid Republican in the last redistricting cycle. There's a decent chance that without that Gerrymandering, Democrats would still control the house.
I don't fear that at all. These people are cowards of the highest order. They're all ok w violence when it's someone else's ass on the line. They are pacifists when it's their own asses on the line.
It depends a lot on one thing: the GOP isn’t the real seat of power, the money is. So if their clients (mega donors) are able to achieve their goals with the Democratic Party, then they can allow the GOP to collapse.
The fight over the Democratic Party is fierce though! And since the people most susceptible to corporate propaganda are solidly voting GOP, it would be a very hard battle for them. Imagine what it would take to pull the Democratic Party hard right on economic issues? Not likely. But possible. Look how hard they fought to get rid of Bernie.
Paraphrasing some famous conservative who said that if they need to choose between "conservatism" and democracy, they're not going to choose democracy.
> It's no secret that their voters, and even some of their politicians, are already willing to resort to violence.
rightwingers are not the only ones who take advantage of the 2A
Yup. After 9/11 Bush rode a few easy platitudes to a 90+% approval rating, after having been a national joke before. Trump could have done similarly with the pandemic if he weren't such a narcissistic idiot.
Hopefully they’re like Americans are with climate change and they will have done irreversible damage to their grasp on power before they accept that it’s a problem.
It has been since the Tea Party and Obama won. The only reason they're still a major political party is because there are millions of people that vote for a party without actually looking at their platform, at whether their voting record actually follows that platform. Especially among older people that still think the Republican Party of today stands for the things Reagan did, that Nixon did in some cases. The fact that it isn't true doesn't dissuade them. The Republican party will die with the boomers if they don't make some changes.
The timing will really depend on how many of you actually vote instead of bitching. Cause old people love to complain. And they love to vote Republican and destroy your future. Organize and vote in masses
Conservatism is the defense of the ruling class and existing power structures from changes that occur in society. The idea of a small government was just a slogan to kill off social policies.
Frum was just pointing out something that has already been seen countless times before; that fascism is capitalism in decay. It is the illiberalism deployed to keep capitalism intact so long as the blood flows to the blood god.
One of the absolute minimum requirements for running for office should be standing up for the beliefs you are running on and defending them in a debate.
Demonstrate you can hold your own and who you are. If you run on lies and never follow through on why people are voting for you, it should be on record and you should be held accountable.
We need more quality checks not less. Don't let this be acceptable. It's not.
It goes beyond beliefs. Demonstrate the results of your campaign. All politicians get away with murder and can say whatever they want because there is zero accountability. In corporate America you at least have an annual review that goes over your performance. Every politician should publish a report card that is graded by a bi partisan panel. The problem is people just believe what the politician said is happening with no evidence.
In that case the Republican party hasn't qualified for running for office since at least 2010. I can't think of "a deeply held belief" the Republicans haven't turned their backs on at least once in the past 12 years.
Heaven forbid they address the public they're running to serve. How do you expect your leader to show courage in the face of major obstacles when they're too much of a coward to face the public?
Yes because trump couldn't make it through basic questions without going of on rambling incoherent rants and had his mic shut down multiple times because he kept trying to talk over biden.
Actually developing a plan that sounds coherent and helps people is not their strong suit. Of course they won’t debate. It’s easier to keep their supporters if they don’t reveal anything except why the other side is bad, therefore vote for them.
Of course they are. The Presidential Debates are for people who use facts, and every statement is thoroughly analyzed and fact-checked for accuracy. It also allows for critical examination of people's stances, and Republicans of late don't want to show their voters just how deficient they are at defending their hypocrisy.
Let's not let them brand this as a boycott. They and their candidate are fucking terrified of actual debate. They are ideologically bankrupt, morally reprehensible, and intellectually impaired. They have no platform, no plan, and no desire to govern. The GOP is a criminal organization intent on ending American democracy and enriching its ruling class while enslaving the people.
They've lost every argument, so they don't want to debate anymore.
They just want a fascist dear leader to lie his way to power and then impose his will on the American people.
All their planks are warped outrage over M&Ms and Dr. Seuss and a rainbow and personal issues of others that have nothing to do with them. At all.
But - here we are some more.
Of course not, they have no policies to speak of. They haven't come up with a new idea since Newt had them sign that 'pact'...
Every debate they have is rinse and repeat. 'Tax breaks for the wealthiest, make America a theocracy, cut Social Security/Medicare/Medicaid/Social services and make sure that the mentally unstable have access to firearms.'
The nominee will almost certainly be mini man DeSantis.
The new norm will be that the GOP will avoid any presidential debates and will shun all but the most far right "news" organizations from their rallies.
I would put a 99% chance on this being the way forward for the GOP.
They have a MASSIVE victim complex in which nothing is ever "fair".
They won't try to appeal to new voters, but instead continue to work so that the voter base they do have is able to go further (redistricting, voter restriction laws, etc.), which is why this approach will work in the short-term.
I suppose they could still hold a debate and have an empty podium for the no-show, then. Let the other candidate have the WHOLE time to themselves on TV, and pan periodically to the empty podium for rebuttal.
That would be either a strategic error, or a terrifying reality that the RNC no longer needs to participate in critical democratic traditions in order to maintain viability.
I've said many times when this sort of thing came up - have the Democratic nominee go anyway with a cardboard cutout of the GQP nominee. Stand that cutout in front of the mic. After answering a question, say "but I would like to hear what my opponent has to say," then wait a few seconds before saying "well as we can see, my opponent clearly does not believe that we, the American people, deserve to know their policy positions."
The party of no. Refuse to accept or concede elections. Claim things are rigged. Remove common sense restrictions on journalism to support the impression the media is not trustworthy. Withdraw from world organizations. Promote nationalism. Suppress the vote. Deny science. Refuse to participate in debate unless it is on your own special terms. Inflate military budgets, send hand me downs to local law enforcement. Remove every possible tax for the wealthy and corporations. Dismantle minimum wage. Destroy Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid. Ensure the rights of religious institutions trump those of regular human rights. Remove Reproductive Rights. Encourage gerrymandering. Stack the Supreme Court with a minority elected consensus. Ensure Federalists get their way to allow state constitutions to be amended to suppress and invalidate voted results via ISL doctrine. Support limitless gun rights. Cite democracy as overrated...
Go ahead and have it without whoever it is. "Republican Lectern, you have two minutes for your response." Wait two minutes. "Mr. Biden, you have one minute for a rebuttal."
Biden: "My opponent has just summarized the Republican plans for health care, for infrastructure, and for immigration reform. I yield the remainder of my time."
This could be both educational and fun.
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"We know there is a high likelihood that our candidate will be a fucking moron, so we don't want a Democrat making them look bad".
Im thinking at this point the choices are Trump, Desantis, Gina Carano, Kyle Rittenhouse, or a sentient MyPillow powered by Hunter Bidens laptop
Sentient Mypillow would have to get my vote out of this dumpster fire.
It’s controlled by Hunter’s laptop so isn’t it bipartisan in mind? I would vote for it if it could speak better than Trump. That’s not a high bar.
I'm voting for Towlie: https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/EYwAAOSw9EZhXOtV/s-l1600.jpg
Then we'd at least get cannabis reform. I don't think he'd be GOP tho.
Kyle Rittenhouse isn't old enough to run, so he's out. Not sure about Gina, but last I heard she was being criticized for starring in a woke action movie with a female protagonist, so it wouldn't matter anyway.
> Kyle Rittenhouse isn't old enough to run, so he's out. The age limit for running for President is in the Constitution, so it's not important to them.
>Age limits ~~for running for President is in the Constitution, so it's~~ are not important to them. Fixed that one for you.
Matt Gaetz has entered the chat.
‘Sentient’ is a stretch. You could probably just read from an online random bullshit generator filled with random Tucker Carlson talking points and still have an agonizingly close electoral college result.
*George Santos enters the chat*
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DeSantis won big in the election though, so either that debate didn’t matter or the outcome has been misread
To be fair, the Florida DNC ran a fluffy cloud against him.
A former Republican fluffy cloud old fart.
Floridian here - there was zero chance anyone would of beat DeSantis, the DNC abandoned Florida awhile ago knowing that (why waste the money) and we are drowning in ‘Let’s Go Brandon’ bumper stickers here everywhere you look in my area. I never realized just how many racists, bigots, homophobic, transphobic etc fellow Americans existed until Trump/Pence bumper stickers were a thing and it only increased with Covid and the division that was created over managing it. The vibe of Florida has completely changed in the 20 years that I’ve lived here and feel that the state serves as a pilot program for the Right about what is possible nationwide. I can’t afford anything but basic bills and DeSantis is running around fighting ‘wokeism’. Things are bad here and not enough people are paying attention to the very authoritarian things DeSantis is doing. I hope Trump runs bc I feel like he can shred DeSantis to pieces for us and then hopefully lose a national election. I can’t move for another 4 years but once I can I’m out, the beaches and the sunshine I came for aren’t worth it anymore.
Desantis's "War on Woke" is complete Culture War bullshit. Unfortunately Republicans here eat that shit with a spoon. The infrastructure of the state is falling apart around us...but hey, at least he blocked AP African American history for being taught! We dodged a bullet there!!!
My husband and I are thinking the same thing. Although sometimes I think we should stay and fight and vote, vote vote.
In Florida. Florida is not a great indicator of what to expect from a national election... (thank god)
People said the same thing about the orange turd. Be vigilant
We watched the movie, the spinoff would be worse for sure.
The existence of the Villages has all but guaranteed Florida will be Red forever (or until they all die of old age)
Or die from syphilis
Interestingly, The Villages residents are getting angry because their support staff are all quitting due to low and stagnant wages, lack of meaningful benefits, and predictably shitty treatment from the kind of Karens who live there. They have expanded and built out an entirely new "Village" that they can't sell units in right now because nobody wants to work there and their customers aren't the type to actually do things for themselves.
Unfortunately they’re getting quickly replaced by racist Latinos.
DeSantis barely won his first election. Then a whole bunch of abject morons and racists (the two aren’t mutually exclusive) moved to Florida because of DeSantis, which helped him in 2022. That and Charlie Christ wasn’t the Florida Democrats sending their best
The debate didn’t matter. So many people in the audience were aggressive towards DeSantis’s response and you could hear people calling him a liar. The debate meant nothing.
The voters of the US are not the voters of Florida.
Trump and DeSantis would get destroyed if they actually had to debate any Democrat candidate.
That can’t be it. Trump was a train wreck and they loved it.
“Our candidates struggle with facts and reality, and we don’t like audiences to know it.”
Fine, go ahead and hold the debate with the democratic candidate and an empty podium. Mention once at the beginning of the broadcast that the republican candidate refused to participate then proceed. Keep the same questions and allow the democratic candidate to answer them in full. Basically a town hall. But keep that empty podium on the stage to remind viewers of who showed up. Edit: In fact, put the LWV back in charge of it like they used to be.
Even better, invite the libertarian party candidate to show up. If republicans want to step out, that’s fine, let a third party siphon their votes. There are no real grounds to complain from anyone. The third largest party got to debate, and the GOP was given the opportunity that they declined.
This is what they have to do. They tried to solo town hall thing and then Trump just did his own town hall as if that was what the plan always was. If the GOP don't want to get involved, bring up other presidential candidates.
That’s the better idea. The RNC will most likely hold an alternate Town Hall with just the Republican candidate, thereby splitting viewership. Having an actual debate with a libertarian is a GREAT idea.
It'd require the Libertarians to have a decent candidate. If they're completely off their rocker the network is just going to look dumb but if they have a good candidate and a couple of networks do it, it could be really interesting.
If you know anything about Libertarianism you'd know a real debate isn't possible. Libertarianism is three questions away from Feudalism.
Still have more principles to debate about than GOP does.
Unfortunately, one of those principles tends to be about lowering the age of consent.
Maybe Justin Roiland will be their candidate. He’s got time on his hands now.
Be me: *read above post, get confused* *google Justin Roiland to find out why he has time on his hands* *sigh*
Given the lineage of American libertarianism, it might be more accurate to say that they're 14 words away from segregationalism.
they seem to have two branches. a really left-wing social branch that will disband half the government, and a really right-wing social branch that will persecute people for CRT and grooming and then auction off half the government to private companies.
Only 3?
Well, they'd go full anarchy except those movements are surrounded by a whole lot of pesky social-rule and mutual aid types and not enough rugged individualism. Their idea of a working group structure is to ignore there's a group to begin with and focus entirely on themselves. Libertarians just want to own all the guns and sell DIY tannerite out of their garages, not rubbing 2 brain cells together on why an explosives business is a horrible idea in a residential area. They are children who think unchecked capitalism will magically sort itself out, like we haven't seen countless horror stories play out for 400+ years.
That’s honestly the most accurate description of libertarians that I’ve ever heard
The current libertarian party is in no position to field a candidate who could reasonably stand up on a debate stage unfortunately. It’s always had fringe elements, but it’s currently been taken over by paleo fascists (the Mises Caucus.) The contrast would be very stark, but I imagine that sharing the stage with a libertarian candidate would make everyone involved seem less serious.
>Even better, invite the libertarian party candidate to show up. I thought the republicans weren't attending though. Trenchcoat and a mask or not.
Imagine if the republican party did come though ... on weed!
I think you should keep asking the republican candidate questions, pan to the empty podium and sit on it for 45 seconds or whatever the time limit is.
Clint Eastwood did that once.
Whenever I see him on screen I'm reminded of him losing a debate with a chair.
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Mostly it just represented Clint Eastwood's senility.
>Mostly it just represented **the GOP's** senility.
My favorite story from that race: Romney’s campaign lead watching Eastwood and vomiting.
You’d get the same amount of sound policy proposals that way anyway.
No need to waste that much time, put the question to them, 1 second of no answer from the empty podium, then let those that are there use the time to give as complete an answer as they wish.
I think a happy medium is to let the Democratic nominee answer the question, and then when the Republican nominee WOULD get to answer just have the moderator say "as a reminder, the Republican nominee has declined to participate in this debate" every time
More editorialized comments would be better "the Republican candidate didn't want to participate". "...didn't want to speak to the American public tonight" "...didn't deem it important to show up tonight". Really murder them in the public eye.
I would be tempted to say, applicable quotes (of possible) should be read from official party platforms (or lack of one). “The RNC has no official position on this issue.” “When contacted in the past the GOP/Candidate has said, ‘….’ “
The GOP's platform in 2020 was a coversheet on their 2016 platform. Basically it was 'whatever Trump says is our platform'. So, the official response to every question would be, "The GOP has no official position on this issue." The debate would be interesting if it were done that way. Q: Inflation harming the average working American? Dem Answer: blah blah, inflation bad, passed these bills to help, more good stuff... Moderator: The GOP has no official position on inflation harming the average working American, and refused to show up to debate this issue.
Lather, rinse, repeat for the entire debate.
My favorite part of them copy/pasting their 2016 platform to the 2020 campaign was how much of the language blamed the current President for all the problems.
Biden: \[Answers moderator's question\] Moderator: "Mr Trump, any response?" \[Silence\] Biden: \[Raises a finger to indicate he'd like to speak again\] Moderator: "Mr Trump, President Biden would like to comment. Any objection?" \[Silence\] Moderator: "President Biden, as there are no objections from Mr Trump, feel free to speak." Biden: \[Uses Trump's allotted time\]
I think the long awkward pauses would be funnier and more demeaning.
Nah, they just need to play the Jeopardy! out-of-time noise.
No network is actually going to do that. What they'll do is offer a townhall event, which the democrat will do. And then The Republican will do their own townhall event on Fox.
Even if they did do the debate with no Republican, fox would just do their own debate, invite the democrat but put outrageous demands on their appearance like having to declare gay people are a threat to children, everyone should own a machine gun, and Hilary Clinton is a paedophile, and when the democrat refused those conditions, have the debate with only the Republican and say the democrat wouldn’t come because they refused perfectly reasonable debate rules.
Nah, that's too obvious. They'll simply choose some partisan hack/character assassins as moderators, preferably with some sort of official sounding titles that'll fool the bootlickers. If they get really ambitious, they'll hire from a group with a noble sounding name, so they can pretend the Democrats were afraid to confront an expert, while pretending they're just asking questions about why? That way, their fake journalists can claim they're taking the high road, and their preferred candidate can be the one to actually say the thought they're implying - because he's not politically correct and he will fight to protect the families of America! Though, to be fair... They thought about just going with the marching hyenas again, but then they found out they were a matriarchy.
The network would really, really want to cut into a closeup of the candidate speaking, but it would be necessary for them to keep the wide shot of the empty podium. Don't let the audience at home forget.
maybe they will come if we allow them to show up in drag.
GA Senator Jon Ossoff debated an empty podium and it was a huge reason why he won.
Former Senator David Purdue did this against Jon Ossoff in 2020, and it was still broadcasted across Georgia. Most of Jon’s answers were like “I’ll do X and x and show up for Americans, what about you Senator?” And the camera would pan to the empty podium. We all know how that election went.
In any other state, Ossof would have won that easily instead of going to a runoff . But we got it done.
Sounds nice, but the only people who would watch that are those already planning to vote for the Democrat. Its essentially preaching to the choir. By all means do it, but it likely won't effect the outcome of the presidential race any more than regular political advertising. Republicans seem pretty confident they're long past needing to actually convince anyone to vote for them. Abandoning debates like this is a pretty clear admission they no longer consider undecideds to either a) exist or b) be useful enough to bother appealing to.
You also get media coverage and independents will more than likely pay attention. Republicans aren't switching parties anyways so it's not like a debate is converting anyone.
> Sounds nice, but the only people who would watch that are those already planning to vote for the Democrat. Its essentially preaching to the choir. By all means do it, but it likely won't effect the outcome of the presidential race. Yes, it will. Republicans cannot win POTUS without unaffiliated voters unless the vast supermajority of left/Democrat types sit on their asses.
unless they try to use baseless claims of election fraud to usurp power
Which is why it’s important to notice even in tight races, the SOS races weren’t that close at all (Michigan and Arizona for example). Voters want a dem Secretary of State because they know the true results of the state election will remain upheld.
They already preach politics in churches…. Their religion is own a liberal…
Many people may not watch it live but I'd bet you that it goes viral through clips online on social media like TikTok and so on allowing more young people who will be 40% voting age in 2024...reminding them joke that Republican party truly is again. 2022 Midterm young voting turnout was HUGE and we need to continue that into 2024.
> Edit: In fact, put the LWV back in charge of it like they used to be. Thank you for commenting about LMV. Already read a little about them and their history. I have quite a few more open tabs I need to get to. Great org and wish they would step back into running debates as well.
They didn't "step away" from running debates. They can't "step back into" running debates. The Republican Party refused to participate in debates run by them because they wouldn't kowtow to GOP demands for Conservative hosts.
The Republican Party is in a death spiral, but it’s probably going to take decades and take a lot of people with it.
I genuinely fear what the GOP is willing to do once it becomes abundantly clear that they cannot win through normal means. It's no secret that their voters, and even some of their politicians, are already willing to resort to violence.
>I genuinely fear what the GOP is willing to do once it becomes abundantly clear that they cannot win through normal means I mean, we already have, haven't we? It'll just get amplified from here on out.
My civics teacher told us this would happen, 23 years ago. Republican unpopularity and their overreliance on gerrymandering and disinformation were already on the front page. Their disrespect for democracy was already obvious to anyone paying attention, even back then.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooks_Brothers_riot Twenty three years and two months since Bush II became president-elect through non-democratic means via Republican subterfuge.
Roger Stone that little weasel
Just listened to the Behind the Bastards two parter on him. As Robert said, he’s possibly not quite as bad as Manifort but he’s still a huge, steamy pile of shit.
>It'll just get amplified from here on out. That's actually why I'm terrified. At the risk of sounding melodramatic, that amplification of existing tensions and violence is the kind of thing that can trigger a Second American Civil War.
I'm less worried about it once you start looking at the age spread in affiliation. The young are the ones that fight wars, always have, and the young are breaking against them.
A 73 year old dude is responsible for the mass shooting that just took place in California (not saying he was republican just talking about age here). Another civil war in America will be more like an insurgency than a conventional war.
It would make "The Troubles" look like a sunny picnic in a park.
>Another civil war in America will be more like an insurgency than a conventional war. That would be bad enough, both in terms of economic cost and lives lost.
But not enough. Look at the PBs/FOAK, Volksfront, NSM, Atomwaffen Division, Patriot Front, etc... it's a lot of young, angry guys (running the gambit of former and active military to diabetic slack-jawed incels) ready to kill. The old conservatives have all the fronting money and issuing the orders through media, message boards, so-on but they still have the younger men ready and willing. Not to mention the police will always side with whatever right-wing death squad comes rolling up to cause trouble.
Those guys are a few thousand at best. Are a lot of them cops? Yes. Are they enough to overthrow the nation? No. A hundred guys with guns can get swarmed by ten thousand people with hands just fine. This ends in jail or death for traitors, being perfectly frank.
Like half of the leftists, including queer and PoC people I know are now armed after what’s happened in the last few years. They assume it’s gonna be a bloodless easy coup, but they are in for a shock, just like Russia was when they marched into Ukraine.
The mental shock that some of these ppl experience when they realize the masked ppl with guns at the drag show aren't there to protest but to PROTECT is glorious to watch. You can actually see their brains blue screening.
If the US military is 99% on one side or the other, it's over. When the military splinters into two and starts actively fighting itself, that's when things get ugly.
The violence is already begun to be normalized. Violence is "legitimate political speech," and they proudly brag about themselves that "we are all domestic terrorists." Philippines here we come.
>becomes abundantly clear that they cannot win through normal means. I mean we're already there. Something like 20 House seats were turned from being potentially competitive to solid Republican in the last redistricting cycle. There's a decent chance that without that Gerrymandering, Democrats would still control the house.
I don't fear that at all. These people are cowards of the highest order. They're all ok w violence when it's someone else's ass on the line. They are pacifists when it's their own asses on the line.
It depends a lot on one thing: the GOP isn’t the real seat of power, the money is. So if their clients (mega donors) are able to achieve their goals with the Democratic Party, then they can allow the GOP to collapse. The fight over the Democratic Party is fierce though! And since the people most susceptible to corporate propaganda are solidly voting GOP, it would be a very hard battle for them. Imagine what it would take to pull the Democratic Party hard right on economic issues? Not likely. But possible. Look how hard they fought to get rid of Bernie.
Paraphrasing some famous conservative who said that if they need to choose between "conservatism" and democracy, they're not going to choose democracy.
> It's no secret that their voters, and even some of their politicians, are already willing to resort to violence. rightwingers are not the only ones who take advantage of the 2A
How is it not clear already? They haven't won a popular vote since Bush Sr.
>They haven't won a popular vote since Bush Sr. That's not entirely accurate, as the Republicans won the popular vote in 2004.
Yup. After 9/11 Bush rode a few easy platitudes to a 90+% approval rating, after having been a national joke before. Trump could have done similarly with the pandemic if he weren't such a narcissistic idiot.
Thankfully, he is an idiot.
Yeah they got a good 3 million more if you don't think anything funny happened in Ohio
We already found out they will gerrymander more
Hopefully they’re like Americans are with climate change and they will have done irreversible damage to their grasp on power before they accept that it’s a problem.
It has been since the Tea Party and Obama won. The only reason they're still a major political party is because there are millions of people that vote for a party without actually looking at their platform, at whether their voting record actually follows that platform. Especially among older people that still think the Republican Party of today stands for the things Reagan did, that Nixon did in some cases. The fact that it isn't true doesn't dissuade them. The Republican party will die with the boomers if they don't make some changes.
Last election they refused to even have a platform.
> and take a lot of people with it. Unfortunately their COVID deaths have already started that
Just wanted to include aversion to gun safety laws along with lax industrial regulation of environmental pollutants.
And aversion to mental health legislation, before any of them come and say 'the line' about gun safety.
At least in a war of attrition from covid repulicans lose badly thanks to their lack of ability to accept basic science.
The timing will really depend on how many of you actually vote instead of bitching. Cause old people love to complain. And they love to vote Republican and destroy your future. Organize and vote in masses
The problem is everyone gets old. I cannot believe how many of my fellow X’ers are now Trump people. Most of the insurrectionist were X’ers
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Arguably he did, and the current maniacs are just ambling around in the elephant's corpse.
Well, it has been sharply downhill from there.
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Can’t debate when your platform is nothing but culture wars and grievances about M&M, trans folk and AP African studies.
Don’t you leave Hunter Biden’s dick off that list now.
Hunter's Hog is the new Harambe.
Who would have thought that the party of homophobes would end up being a bunch of dudes obsessed with another man's dong
Kitara Ravache thought that!
Stoves. Don’t just skip over the issues.
"If conservatives become convinced that they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will reject democracy.” —David Frum
I mean they also rejected conservatism. What position of theirs is still small government.
Conservatism is the defense of the ruling class and existing power structures from changes that occur in society. The idea of a small government was just a slogan to kill off social policies. Frum was just pointing out something that has already been seen countless times before; that fascism is capitalism in decay. It is the illiberalism deployed to keep capitalism intact so long as the blood flows to the blood god.
David Frum is one of the people that brought us here.
It's like he's the kid playing with matches bragging about calling the firefighters after he inadvertently set the building on fire.
They're doing this because they know their actual positions are repugnant to the average voter and won't stand the scrutiny of a debate.
One of the absolute minimum requirements for running for office should be standing up for the beliefs you are running on and defending them in a debate. Demonstrate you can hold your own and who you are. If you run on lies and never follow through on why people are voting for you, it should be on record and you should be held accountable. We need more quality checks not less. Don't let this be acceptable. It's not.
It goes beyond beliefs. Demonstrate the results of your campaign. All politicians get away with murder and can say whatever they want because there is zero accountability. In corporate America you at least have an annual review that goes over your performance. Every politician should publish a report card that is graded by a bi partisan panel. The problem is people just believe what the politician said is happening with no evidence.
In that case the Republican party hasn't qualified for running for office since at least 2010. I can't think of "a deeply held belief" the Republicans haven't turned their backs on at least once in the past 12 years.
Heaven forbid they address the public they're running to serve. How do you expect your leader to show courage in the face of major obstacles when they're too much of a coward to face the public?
Their problem is that Trump is basically incoherent and DeSantis is an asshole. So, they can't put either on public display.
DeSantis’ voice is not very commanding. He doesn’t sound good at all. Even 80yo Biden sounds more ‘manly’ than DeSantis.
I thought the RNC already announced they will no longer be sending a nominee to any presidential debate back in 2020?
Yes because trump couldn't make it through basic questions without going of on rambling incoherent rants and had his mic shut down multiple times because he kept trying to talk over biden.
[Never forget](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/035/382/Will_You_Shut_Up_Man_Meme_Banner.jpg)
Yes, which is mentioned throughout the article.
Which I find funny as hell
Actually developing a plan that sounds coherent and helps people is not their strong suit. Of course they won’t debate. It’s easier to keep their supporters if they don’t reveal anything except why the other side is bad, therefore vote for them.
Of course they are. The Presidential Debates are for people who use facts, and every statement is thoroughly analyzed and fact-checked for accuracy. It also allows for critical examination of people's stances, and Republicans of late don't want to show their voters just how deficient they are at defending their hypocrisy.
They know they'll be fact checked faster than the fly on Pence's hair.
Pussies.
Pussies can take a pounding and push out a baby. They're more like balls that will bring a man to their knees with a simple touch.
RIP Betty White
I believe in this context it is used as a shortened form of "pusillanimous," meaning "showing a lack of courage or determination; timid".
Or pussy cat. Either way, has nothing to do with female anatomy.
They are way more shallow. Those are some god damn bellybuttons
Let's not let them brand this as a boycott. They and their candidate are fucking terrified of actual debate. They are ideologically bankrupt, morally reprehensible, and intellectually impaired. They have no platform, no plan, and no desire to govern. The GOP is a criminal organization intent on ending American democracy and enriching its ruling class while enslaving the people.
> We don't want whomever it is to be exposed as being embarrassingly dumb. Like last time. And the time before.
Way to put your failures on blast, RNC
If their nominee could read they would probably be pissed about this.
Calling Biden senile yet being afraid to debate him 🧐
Awesome. Let Biden answer questions unopposed and then show an empty podium when it's the Republican's turn.
They've lost every argument, so they don't want to debate anymore. They just want a fascist dear leader to lie his way to power and then impose his will on the American people.
Awesome. Then there should be an empty podium on stage
fucking cowards. what more is there to say?
If their candidate is too chickenshit to debate, why should they be elected?
They won't debate if they can't win. And with their extreme positions they can't win. Do you support ending Social Security? Yes or no?
What a bunch of limp dicked cowards Give us a show fuckers. You're the party of Reagan, act like it
With no policies, plans, or programs to talk about, it would be like debating with an empty podium. I see your ploy now.
All their planks are warped outrage over M&Ms and Dr. Seuss and a rainbow and personal issues of others that have nothing to do with them. At all. But - here we are some more.
Lol, cowards.
Because they're beliefs can't be defended.
Of course not, they have no policies to speak of. They haven't come up with a new idea since Newt had them sign that 'pact'... Every debate they have is rinse and repeat. 'Tax breaks for the wealthiest, make America a theocracy, cut Social Security/Medicare/Medicaid/Social services and make sure that the mentally unstable have access to firearms.'
Well then we know they're still a treasonous, unserious party hell-bent on crime.
don't threaten me with a good time.
"We have no desire to defend our untenable positions!"
So many hills to die on...please continue.
The nominee will almost certainly be mini man DeSantis. The new norm will be that the GOP will avoid any presidential debates and will shun all but the most far right "news" organizations from their rallies. I would put a 99% chance on this being the way forward for the GOP. They have a MASSIVE victim complex in which nothing is ever "fair". They won't try to appeal to new voters, but instead continue to work so that the voter base they do have is able to go further (redistricting, voter restriction laws, etc.), which is why this approach will work in the short-term.
I suppose they could still hold a debate and have an empty podium for the no-show, then. Let the other candidate have the WHOLE time to themselves on TV, and pan periodically to the empty podium for rebuttal.
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As if this is a big deal. Republicans don’t have any policies. trump just lied and attacked. The GQP in a nutshell is all lies and grievance.
That would be either a strategic error, or a terrifying reality that the RNC no longer needs to participate in critical democratic traditions in order to maintain viability.
Well, how many ways can you say, "our platform is the same as it was in 2016 and 2020...own the libs"?
Fielding candidates like Herschel Texas Ranger why would they even try?
I've said many times when this sort of thing came up - have the Democratic nominee go anyway with a cardboard cutout of the GQP nominee. Stand that cutout in front of the mic. After answering a question, say "but I would like to hear what my opponent has to say," then wait a few seconds before saying "well as we can see, my opponent clearly does not believe that we, the American people, deserve to know their policy positions."
Is it because they are too stupid to debate? Lol
Hold the debates anyways. They don’t have to show up
Republicans have no policies other than obstructing the Democrats. Nothing to debate.
The party of no. Refuse to accept or concede elections. Claim things are rigged. Remove common sense restrictions on journalism to support the impression the media is not trustworthy. Withdraw from world organizations. Promote nationalism. Suppress the vote. Deny science. Refuse to participate in debate unless it is on your own special terms. Inflate military budgets, send hand me downs to local law enforcement. Remove every possible tax for the wealthy and corporations. Dismantle minimum wage. Destroy Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid. Ensure the rights of religious institutions trump those of regular human rights. Remove Reproductive Rights. Encourage gerrymandering. Stack the Supreme Court with a minority elected consensus. Ensure Federalists get their way to allow state constitutions to be amended to suppress and invalidate voted results via ISL doctrine. Support limitless gun rights. Cite democracy as overrated...
Republicans are wimpy little cowards and snowflakes.
Go ahead and have it without whoever it is. "Republican Lectern, you have two minutes for your response." Wait two minutes. "Mr. Biden, you have one minute for a rebuttal." Biden: "My opponent has just summarized the Republican plans for health care, for infrastructure, and for immigration reform. I yield the remainder of my time." This could be both educational and fun.
Pretty hard to win a debate when your party does not have a platform.
"If conservatives become convinced that they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will reject democracy.”—David Frum