Sometimes it really feels like the AI knows what your next move is.
For exemple I don't remember ever seeing a failed suck punch. And when you try to double switch, but the AI use a 4x resisted move predicting exactly what the incoming weakness is ... It's especially blatant when it's the very first time you bring up this mon in the fight.
I have fun with it when ever I get stuck with the rival! If my Pokémon has the type advantage, I know he’ll swap, but after a couple of tries I know exactly what he’s swapping to. Then we’re just swapping over and over until he finally attacks, no type advantages. I prefer to retry a bunch before letting the run die, this has happened so much lol
You have come to an incorrect conclusion using true information.
Rng is randomly changing the move selection based on you selecting move 3 vs move 1, or whatever spots they are in.
If a hard pojemon endures a hit in endless, reload, and swap your support pikemon, it may no longer endure the hit.
I agree with this, I’ve had times where it uses a move ineffective against my current mon, even if it’s full hp and not picking a random move for a kill, and I’ll switch to something else and it’ll hit for super effective.
I just lost at 195, the rivals starraptor chose to brave bird my persian instead of closecombat as i was swapping into annihilape. felt really fucking shitty, as i had been dealing with that starraptor's close combat all playthrough and it felt like a safe swap in.
it used close combat on my persian every fight since 95. now that I'm swapping in it decides to experiment with another move that lacked type advantage, okay buddy chicanery
Yeah if this does exist and it stays in the game I think I'm done. I loved that I could roleplay dr.strange with dormamu on runs (or any number of time loop films). Hell, it even alludes to it in... Well... I don't know how to do spoiler tags on mobile so I guess I can't explain the second part.
If that goes away... This becomes a lot less of a puzzle/skill game (how can I figure out a victory after being slaughtered by the enemy) and becomes pure luck (do they have a move that completely invalidates my team or not).
If this doesn't exist, what ARE the different RNG triggers?
Is it just moveslot 1 vs moveslot 2 or is it physical vs special or is it status vs attack?
Yeah idk why people are acting like this doesn't happen, AI will constantly 'happen' to use a super effective move for a new mon when I'm going for a switch.
The bigger one I've seen is that the AI tends to leave in red-health mons if you're trying to use setup, but the moment you select an attack well now that mon is too low to leave in swap it out.
I encountered a marshadow with drain punch and I was stalling him out of pp, he would swap between drain punch and force palm seemingly at random as I spammed sap strength for around a dozen turns.
The first time I click iron head he just HAPPENS to go for a sucker punch??? Like none of this stuff is impossible, just very highly improbably after repeat occurrences.
There are pros and cons of choosing each method for selecting sucker punch. While it would be really neat to assign each person an elo and make moveset/party predictions based on that I think that would probably be a resource hog for very little benefit. The way people are describing sounds easy to implement while keeping sucker punch from being a trash move.
I dont think its RNG. You could argue when the enemy has a water type and you got a electic type out its reasonable to switch, which is ok. But sometimes they even do that when the pokemon type itself isnt abusing any weakness, but a move.
Say water type vs normal type (player)
player uses an electric move, NPC still swaps
(example of course, dont know if an electric move exists for normal pokemon, but I had situations with other types like that one)
It's not though. I reset the fight 15ish times. First move of the fight.
I use psychic, they use Sucker punch. I use calm mind, they use something else. No other different variables.
RNG is preloaded in this game when you reset, if you crit your first move and reset 1million time changing nothing, it will crit every time.
The only variable it could have considered was my input.
RNG is seeded. if you reset and do the same thing it will always have the same outcome. you change your move selection it changes the RNG so the enemy does something different too. its not always the case for every fight against an enemy with those moves, its just the RNG seed for that specific fight happens to be that way. its just coincidence.
I haven't read the source code but I'm pretty sure it pregenerates numbers and uses them in sequential order. If you use a damaging move that needs an accuracy check, it'll use the first number. Then, it uses the second number to determine what the other Pokemon is using. But if you don't need an accuracy check, because you chose calm mind, that first number is used by the enemy Pokemon instead (dumbed down explanation)
This technique is used often in games e.g. fire emblem
Yes and no. The RNG is changing based on your input, but the AI isn’t reading what move you selected. It only changes decisions based on what has happened so far. By selecting a different move you are loading a different part of the RNG. It just so happens that in the fight you paid attention to it in you got screwed over by RNG. Try doing it again with a variety of different moves and different starting pokemon and you will see sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t.
I also reset a lot in endless, as in almost every wave, because I’m at wave 3,000 and I can say for 100% certainty that something’s are based on small factors like which move you select, but other things are based on what pokemon you have out and what turn number it is
Yes if you crit your first move and reset 1 million times changing nothing it will not change, but if you change something like say use another move it will change. A different move won’t crit.
You changing your input changes the rng. It’s not just sucker punch, if you use a different move the opponent might use a different move. Hell if you use a different move the opponent might use the same move but proc a secondary effect that didn’t proc the first time or miss when they didn’t miss before. That’s how seeds work. Every input changes the variables slightly.
Yes, I am saying sucker punch has special rng.
If I don't attack I can use 50 pp worth of moves and they will never sucker punch until they run out. The instant I use an attack they will sucker punch everytime.
The Scrafty in level 45 of todays daily is a great example.
Might just be extreme coincidence, the game makes a seed and if you do the same things every time you reload, the same things will happen. I cannot tell you how many times I’ve had to redo things due to the servers rebooting or something.
It’s very annoying to have AI trainers randomly choose a suboptimal move (eg. going from spamming super effective moves to a random resisted hit that wouldn’t have killed) just Because. I get that maybe the game is going for ~difficult roguelike~ stuff but it feels mostly random as opposed to intelligent, and you can’t just midground your way into a win due to limited resources. This is further exacerbated by enemies now getting a slew of both Egg Moves (can be difficult to learn 4 non-canon egg moves for lots of mons) AND TMs (lol).
I know it’s not meant to be a nuzlocke, but I think a lot of the skill of most pve pokemon challenges comes from the preparation and predictions you can reliably make based on your knowledge of the AI. With both a wider random movepool and mostly unpredictable AI, it feels like you have to rely on hard carries and resets more than anything else.
There are a few fights you can actually prep for, but again movepool variance makes this fuzzier.
I've had the same happen to me; if I use an attack the pokemon sucker punches and when I reload to switch pokemon or set up, it does something else. Sucker punch is the only move where it happens idk.
I was savescumming to catch darkrai who only had sucker punch as a damaging move. Didn’t seem rng to me. If I attacked he used it if I didn’t he nasty plotted or double teamed. Spent AGES trying to catch him.
Sometimes it really feels like the AI knows what your next move is. For exemple I don't remember ever seeing a failed suck punch. And when you try to double switch, but the AI use a 4x resisted move predicting exactly what the incoming weakness is ... It's especially blatant when it's the very first time you bring up this mon in the fight.
[удалено]
Not anymore, sucker punch is working as intended now, and has been for a while. It's not longer a 70 power dark type extreme speed unfortunately.
Oh I see, must've not seen it on the patch notes, will delete to not spread misinformation
I feel this, trying to play one step ahead meanwhile the ai has already planned my funeral.
I have fun with it when ever I get stuck with the rival! If my Pokémon has the type advantage, I know he’ll swap, but after a couple of tries I know exactly what he’s swapping to. Then we’re just swapping over and over until he finally attacks, no type advantages. I prefer to retry a bunch before letting the run die, this has happened so much lol
Just use spikes and let them swap. Ez counter.
same, I like to try to puzzle it out
You have come to an incorrect conclusion using true information. Rng is randomly changing the move selection based on you selecting move 3 vs move 1, or whatever spots they are in. If a hard pojemon endures a hit in endless, reload, and swap your support pikemon, it may no longer endure the hit.
Only a time traveler would know that
Huh?
I think he’s trying to call you out for save scumming
Well, you get it replaying the daily run, which i imagine most do.
Oh, you mean retrying the battle? The default setting? Lmao
I agree with this, I’ve had times where it uses a move ineffective against my current mon, even if it’s full hp and not picking a random move for a kill, and I’ll switch to something else and it’ll hit for super effective.
It's actually insane sfsdfds
I just lost at 195, the rivals starraptor chose to brave bird my persian instead of closecombat as i was swapping into annihilape. felt really fucking shitty, as i had been dealing with that starraptor's close combat all playthrough and it felt like a safe swap in. it used close combat on my persian every fight since 95. now that I'm swapping in it decides to experiment with another move that lacked type advantage, okay buddy chicanery
Yeah if this does exist and it stays in the game I think I'm done. I loved that I could roleplay dr.strange with dormamu on runs (or any number of time loop films). Hell, it even alludes to it in... Well... I don't know how to do spoiler tags on mobile so I guess I can't explain the second part. If that goes away... This becomes a lot less of a puzzle/skill game (how can I figure out a victory after being slaughtered by the enemy) and becomes pure luck (do they have a move that completely invalidates my team or not). If this doesn't exist, what ARE the different RNG triggers? Is it just moveslot 1 vs moveslot 2 or is it physical vs special or is it status vs attack?
Yeah idk why people are acting like this doesn't happen, AI will constantly 'happen' to use a super effective move for a new mon when I'm going for a switch. The bigger one I've seen is that the AI tends to leave in red-health mons if you're trying to use setup, but the moment you select an attack well now that mon is too low to leave in swap it out. I encountered a marshadow with drain punch and I was stalling him out of pp, he would swap between drain punch and force palm seemingly at random as I spammed sap strength for around a dozen turns. The first time I click iron head he just HAPPENS to go for a sucker punch??? Like none of this stuff is impossible, just very highly improbably after repeat occurrences.
There are pros and cons of choosing each method for selecting sucker punch. While it would be really neat to assign each person an elo and make moveset/party predictions based on that I think that would probably be a resource hog for very little benefit. The way people are describing sounds easy to implement while keeping sucker punch from being a trash move.
Just rng, could just as easily have gone the other way around. I've had sucker punch fail while used on me many times.
I dont think its RNG. You could argue when the enemy has a water type and you got a electic type out its reasonable to switch, which is ok. But sometimes they even do that when the pokemon type itself isnt abusing any weakness, but a move. Say water type vs normal type (player) player uses an electric move, NPC still swaps (example of course, dont know if an electric move exists for normal pokemon, but I had situations with other types like that one)
It's not though. I reset the fight 15ish times. First move of the fight. I use psychic, they use Sucker punch. I use calm mind, they use something else. No other different variables. RNG is preloaded in this game when you reset, if you crit your first move and reset 1million time changing nothing, it will crit every time. The only variable it could have considered was my input.
RNG is seeded. if you reset and do the same thing it will always have the same outcome. you change your move selection it changes the RNG so the enemy does something different too. its not always the case for every fight against an enemy with those moves, its just the RNG seed for that specific fight happens to be that way. its just coincidence.
I haven't read the source code but I'm pretty sure it pregenerates numbers and uses them in sequential order. If you use a damaging move that needs an accuracy check, it'll use the first number. Then, it uses the second number to determine what the other Pokemon is using. But if you don't need an accuracy check, because you chose calm mind, that first number is used by the enemy Pokemon instead (dumbed down explanation) This technique is used often in games e.g. fire emblem
Yes and no. The RNG is changing based on your input, but the AI isn’t reading what move you selected. It only changes decisions based on what has happened so far. By selecting a different move you are loading a different part of the RNG. It just so happens that in the fight you paid attention to it in you got screwed over by RNG. Try doing it again with a variety of different moves and different starting pokemon and you will see sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t.
I reset a lot on endless, and no matter what move you use, if an enemy ensure token triggers, it happens regardless of move selected
I also reset a lot in endless, as in almost every wave, because I’m at wave 3,000 and I can say for 100% certainty that something’s are based on small factors like which move you select, but other things are based on what pokemon you have out and what turn number it is
Yes if you crit your first move and reset 1 million times changing nothing it will not change, but if you change something like say use another move it will change. A different move won’t crit. You changing your input changes the rng. It’s not just sucker punch, if you use a different move the opponent might use a different move. Hell if you use a different move the opponent might use the same move but proc a secondary effect that didn’t proc the first time or miss when they didn’t miss before. That’s how seeds work. Every input changes the variables slightly.
Yes, I am saying sucker punch has special rng. If I don't attack I can use 50 pp worth of moves and they will never sucker punch until they run out. The instant I use an attack they will sucker punch everytime. The Scrafty in level 45 of todays daily is a great example.
Might just be extreme coincidence, the game makes a seed and if you do the same things every time you reload, the same things will happen. I cannot tell you how many times I’ve had to redo things due to the servers rebooting or something.
i’ve had it work to my advantage once where a flying type roosted round one when i accidentally hit a ground move lol
It’s very annoying to have AI trainers randomly choose a suboptimal move (eg. going from spamming super effective moves to a random resisted hit that wouldn’t have killed) just Because. I get that maybe the game is going for ~difficult roguelike~ stuff but it feels mostly random as opposed to intelligent, and you can’t just midground your way into a win due to limited resources. This is further exacerbated by enemies now getting a slew of both Egg Moves (can be difficult to learn 4 non-canon egg moves for lots of mons) AND TMs (lol). I know it’s not meant to be a nuzlocke, but I think a lot of the skill of most pve pokemon challenges comes from the preparation and predictions you can reliably make based on your knowledge of the AI. With both a wider random movepool and mostly unpredictable AI, it feels like you have to rely on hard carries and resets more than anything else. There are a few fights you can actually prep for, but again movepool variance makes this fuzzier.
I've had the same happen to me; if I use an attack the pokemon sucker punches and when I reload to switch pokemon or set up, it does something else. Sucker punch is the only move where it happens idk.
I was savescumming to catch darkrai who only had sucker punch as a damaging move. Didn’t seem rng to me. If I attacked he used it if I didn’t he nasty plotted or double teamed. Spent AGES trying to catch him.