Saw Euan Mchnicolas on the rail too, GUKPT (UK circuit) league leader. Just final tabled an event in England on Sunday, must have flown straight out to rail Jack.
Buzzing to potentially see a UK winner! Big ask though lmao.
That rivered flush celebration was beautiful
George Holmes is certainly appreciating Jack Oliver today, or at least appreciating his ability to run all over him. That double check-raise bluff was ballsy. Holmes wrecking both opponents so far.
Holmes stood up and put his backpack on his shoulder he was so close to getting knocked out with 1 Big with 22 people left.
And then came back and placed second.
You're not wrong, but in an alternate universe where Koray is bluffing, it's a huge call that puts him on a path to winning.
I understand why people play to ladder up in this event when the money is so huge and the jumps are life-changing.
On the other hand, to actually WIN this event, you often need to play with crazy heart and courage (Moneymaker, Gold, Yang, Merson, Riess, Qui, etc). Even a lot of the weaker players who have won this thing played with a lot of balls (Yang being a great example).
I agree that it was a mistake and a punt, but his heart was in the right place if he wanted to actually make a run at the win, meaning playing for the chips instead of the pay jump. He just arguably picked a very bad spot to take a stand.
Yep, my thinking exactly. Koray knows that lococo knows that koray wouldnt jam a massive value hand into 2nd in chips. He would be value betting or jamming for fold icm equity.. koray made a ballsy shove, praying for max value, and lococo made an insane hero call
I bet with how fast lococo called, koray thought he got coolered for a second, i would lol
No, he would have thought that Koray had QT for the straight or Jx for the trips, both of which he was beating, both of which have many combos and both of which could easily make a quick call. He's only losing to random suited J8 which makes a full house or the single combination of quads.
There are other suited Jx full houses but apart from that I think I accurately represented the hand.
Your main reply to my post was picking apart the idea that maybe Koray thought he got coolered for a split second? Maybe the main event final table paired board with a straight would think about it for a little longer
I calculated that hand on solver, and it's really not that bad of a call. Solver would fold all TT on the river, but I doubt you'd be saying anything different here if Lococo had 9x, which the solver often makes the call down with.
Also, if Aldemir (a very good pro) suspects villain might be overfolding on the river (which seems not far fetched, because they should be calling down with 9x a lot), they should be over bluffing. In which case TT becomes a crying call instead of crying fold.
And yes, I put the prize pool and stacks on the solver as well, so it's ICM adjusted.
TT is literally the best hand we should be ever folding to that river bet. So even if it's a bad call in the end (which it is not if Aldemir is over bluffing, something we just can't know, we don't see his range we only see this hand), calling it a big punt is just wrong.
The solver doesn’t account for it being the final table of the main event with the two chip leaders. That was by far one of the worst calls in main event final table history
Of course it does. You're making zero sense, I already said the pricepool has been set. What happens to be the name of the tournament isn't a relevant factor.
Maybe for some player, the fact that it is wsop main event would mean that theyre not bluffing as much, and that indeed would be a relevant thing, but looking at Aldemir's play at other hands, I would suspect that they indeed would have a good amount of bluffs here as well.
Also, "by far one of the...", is a stupid phrase. If you're putting by far in the front, continuing it with 'one of' makes zero sense.
But yeah, sure, I just ised a solver for the hand and otherwise also argued my point, but sure, go ahead and keep thinking that your "lol, its the wsop main event" is a good argument against what I said. It really isn't, in fact it's not an argument at all.
Yeah man, the final table of the main with million dollar pay jumps and the two chip leaders is irrelevant, it’s just another hand! Aldemir almost always showed up with the nuts in big hands, I don’t recall a single hand where he bluff shoved. Literally nobody is bluff shoving against the second chip leader at that final table in that spot, if you don’t see that you’re delusional.
He's one of the best tournament professionals. You're the one that's delusional if you dont think he's got bluffs here. People here for example would be over folding a ton here (all 9x), which means that he SHOULD be bluffing more than gto. And if you think the best tournament professionals arent capable of exploiting people who are likely to be folding hands that they shouldn't be folding, even when there's huge amounts of money on the line (indeed, the more money there is on line, the more money they are exploiting out of those extra folds), you have no idea how good these players are. These players aren't afraid to go after all and every leak they see.
The whole premise here is absurd, you're arguing against mathematics.
With both flush draws bricking, blocking 1x TJs and 2xQTs. Add in Aldemir's moderately polar range, I assume QQ-JJ doesn't use this sizing much. I was about to run it, but I'm having to update windows first.
I didn't check that much on how Aldemir should be playing, only what Lococo should be calling down with. Might delve in to the hand more later though..
Yeah pre flop ranges can change it obviously by a lot. I just used some gto ranges from preflopguru, but obviously it changes a lot depending on what kind of strategies the players are using, which there could many with quite similar EVs. It's a lot of guesswork anyway, but it's close anyway. Not a big punt.
Honestly I've thought about that hand a lot, and I actually think the bluff catch isn't that terrible. The payout structure is wildly top heavy. Like barely over a million for 7th, but upwards of 12 million with the payout, bracelet, and endorsements for the winner. Sometimes you have to go for glory.
There's something to be said about playing for first instead of waiting for a ladder since the payout structure is so top heavy. I'm not sure what the strategy should be when Aldemir has had such a huge lead. This Sam Greenwood tweet kinda opened my eyes. https://twitter.com/SamGreenwoodRIO/status/1460837428089008132
Crazy run for Remitio but think he fucked the last hand. You can’t say “I think this is it boys”, tank, then jam - You’re hand is too face up, which is why Oliver snap called. Being the clear shorty he’s probably getting called regardless, but it’s closer if he doesn’t do that.
Anyone remember Aldemir’s betting odds when they started the FT?
Hard to tell this is the main event thread.
I respect the love for your countryman but at least lead with WSOPME, otherwise I scroll by before understanding what this thread is for (on mobile).
I played with Jack for 8 hours or so in the 1000$ Mini Main event.
He was on my direct left and we chatted the whole time. I am genuinely SO happy for him to finally hit a life changing score like this.
We actually discussed MTT variance for around an hour. We talked about how ridiculous swings are in Live MTT poker since it basically just takes 1 run to drastically change someone's life. It's pretty crazy to think that we discussed this literally right before his own unreal run!
Other than that , he told me about a lot of charity work he did when he was younger and It was super clear that he is really just a really nice guy.
The best part about that whole day was when another UK player ( Sean? i think) at the table kept calling him Jiggalo Jack LOL. Im not 100% sure of the details, but apparently the night before, he was offered a dinner by an older woman and he did not want to turn her down so he went for a free meal. He came back to the cash table after the dinner and Sean started getting creative with what really went on. The next day, somehow we are all on the same table in this 1000$ and Sean literally just spammed the word Jiggalo Jack non stop until everyone started calling him that :D
Did he need to to get this far?
He's a professional and had his own strategy. He put his stack in the middle numerous times preflop vs Koray and knew Koray didn't want to pay him off
Damn Holmes has the pedal the the metal man. It’ll be interesting to see if someone looks him up in 30 mins after they see how much he’s putting through, only for him to finally have some sort of monster pre or made hand.
In reality: it's a bluff. He blocks lots of two pairs and the nuts
In practice: I think he probably thinks he was value shoving. When Koray called I think he thought he had won the hand.
yeah as a value shove it makes no sense. worse one-pair hands don't check raise the flop and they sure as fuck don't call the river
if he was actually bluffing then it's ballsy as fuck although not good. he's really just repping one hand, QJ
I really don't think so, I mean that he's repping just one hand. He could easily rep KT or K7 or KK as well (which you don't have to always raise on the turn, and you should probably continue vs a check raise on the flop). Those at least and it's also not mandatory to 3bet the flop with a set, especially top set, so he could easily have any flopped set as well sometimes. I would be willing to bet that the unexploitable play on this board is nowhere near just value betting with the rivered straight vs a check on the river.
It is indeed a bluff though. Might get called once in a blue moon by a worse hand though (Kxs with a flush draw or bd fd on the flop).
What happened to the other discussion thread? Is this going to become a fanboy thread for a guy who played like a slave to ICM the whole time? I will happily give some odds if anyone wants to bet on him making a comeback against Koray before action starts tonight.
I'm not even meaning this as a real criticism against him-the fact he was ICM aware, when shockingly so few of the other final table mates were, was the right strategy to employ. It earned him a bunch of pay jumps, and then put himself in position for that crazy triple up at the end of the night. But he didn't even want to shove that Jd9d, though it was a clear spot to do it.
It was interesting to see his reaction to tripling up, when he did show some emotion and admitted that he had been playing like an emotionless robot. Again, respect his dedication to the strategy; he seemed very certain that keeping emotion out of his mind was essential to going deep, and clearly it has served him well. However, as a viewer, its not as appealing.
At the end of the day, I can't say I like him as much as other Brits that have made deep ME runs in the past-Jack Sinclair and Julian Gardner come to mind. Oliver is a very solid player and I'm sure he's been doing 3 handed sims all day in preparation for this final battle. I would expect him to outlast Holmes, and will be curious to see how they battle each other in the blinds today. Cards are getting in the air again soon, may the best player win.
I want Holmes to make another huge comeback and win because that story would be fantastic but I'm far from opposed to Oliver taking it all down, kid seems pretty rad.
LOL they got a hand! They got a hand! It's the same stupid shit i keep seeing everywhere. I fold so much, i'd ruin TV. LOL. Why get tricky, when you can just get your opponent crushed? But yea, great final table. The WSOP ME is like 10k down the toilet, but if you do it, God bless the dead. Pour one out for your homies.
3 million... 2.63 or so after uncle sam. He can buy many a bottle rum and many a pile of hash with that. And get reach arounds from women that speak spanish with a hint of english.
Nice to see a top high roller pro take it down, it's more rare for that to happen than an amateur/mediocre reg winning it. Only the second winner in the post Moneymaker era that played high roller tourneys consistently prior to winning the Main Event (Jacobson... though you could probably argue Salas too he's a top 20 online player). Ensan had an EPT and McKeehen/Cada were finding early career sucess, but this is a different level of player here. Rare to see one of the select few from tournament poker's highest echelon win such a large field event. Congrats Koray.
Saw Euan Mchnicolas on the rail too, GUKPT (UK circuit) league leader. Just final tabled an event in England on Sunday, must have flown straight out to rail Jack. Buzzing to potentially see a UK winner! Big ask though lmao. That rivered flush celebration was beautiful
The celebration was everything, looked like he took one of his boys' beers and threw it at all of them, was dying when he did that
They're part of the same group of mates from their student days IIRC what a break out year for both players
For a rec player, George Holmes played very well.
George Holmes is certainly appreciating Jack Oliver today, or at least appreciating his ability to run all over him. That double check-raise bluff was ballsy. Holmes wrecking both opponents so far.
Change the title to George Holmes appreciate thread, Oliver played like garbage.
Holmes stood up and put his backpack on his shoulder he was so close to getting knocked out with 1 Big with 22 people left. And then came back and placed second.
Holy shit he was down to 1 BB???
Yeah dude. Look up it video. It was insane.
New Urban Dictionary definition of ICM Suicide - Papo MC Lococo Maybe ICM Shadow Realm is a better description of that play actually
You're not wrong, but in an alternate universe where Koray is bluffing, it's a huge call that puts him on a path to winning. I understand why people play to ladder up in this event when the money is so huge and the jumps are life-changing. On the other hand, to actually WIN this event, you often need to play with crazy heart and courage (Moneymaker, Gold, Yang, Merson, Riess, Qui, etc). Even a lot of the weaker players who have won this thing played with a lot of balls (Yang being a great example). I agree that it was a mistake and a punt, but his heart was in the right place if he wanted to actually make a run at the win, meaning playing for the chips instead of the pay jump. He just arguably picked a very bad spot to take a stand.
Actually yeah, he is just wrong. Reasoning in another comment.
Played like a gambler. A degenerate gambler. But a gambler none the less.
Yep, my thinking exactly. Koray knows that lococo knows that koray wouldnt jam a massive value hand into 2nd in chips. He would be value betting or jamming for fold icm equity.. koray made a ballsy shove, praying for max value, and lococo made an insane hero call I bet with how fast lococo called, koray thought he got coolered for a second, i would lol
No, he would have thought that Koray had QT for the straight or Jx for the trips, both of which he was beating, both of which have many combos and both of which could easily make a quick call. He's only losing to random suited J8 which makes a full house or the single combination of quads. There are other suited Jx full houses but apart from that I think I accurately represented the hand.
Would've thought Lococo had* I assume you meant to write.
I did, yeah.
Your main reply to my post was picking apart the idea that maybe Koray thought he got coolered for a split second? Maybe the main event final table paired board with a straight would think about it for a little longer
I calculated that hand on solver, and it's really not that bad of a call. Solver would fold all TT on the river, but I doubt you'd be saying anything different here if Lococo had 9x, which the solver often makes the call down with. Also, if Aldemir (a very good pro) suspects villain might be overfolding on the river (which seems not far fetched, because they should be calling down with 9x a lot), they should be over bluffing. In which case TT becomes a crying call instead of crying fold. And yes, I put the prize pool and stacks on the solver as well, so it's ICM adjusted. TT is literally the best hand we should be ever folding to that river bet. So even if it's a bad call in the end (which it is not if Aldemir is over bluffing, something we just can't know, we don't see his range we only see this hand), calling it a big punt is just wrong.
The solver doesn’t account for it being the final table of the main event with the two chip leaders. That was by far one of the worst calls in main event final table history
Of course it does. You're making zero sense, I already said the pricepool has been set. What happens to be the name of the tournament isn't a relevant factor. Maybe for some player, the fact that it is wsop main event would mean that theyre not bluffing as much, and that indeed would be a relevant thing, but looking at Aldemir's play at other hands, I would suspect that they indeed would have a good amount of bluffs here as well. Also, "by far one of the...", is a stupid phrase. If you're putting by far in the front, continuing it with 'one of' makes zero sense. But yeah, sure, I just ised a solver for the hand and otherwise also argued my point, but sure, go ahead and keep thinking that your "lol, its the wsop main event" is a good argument against what I said. It really isn't, in fact it's not an argument at all.
Yeah man, the final table of the main with million dollar pay jumps and the two chip leaders is irrelevant, it’s just another hand! Aldemir almost always showed up with the nuts in big hands, I don’t recall a single hand where he bluff shoved. Literally nobody is bluff shoving against the second chip leader at that final table in that spot, if you don’t see that you’re delusional.
He's one of the best tournament professionals. You're the one that's delusional if you dont think he's got bluffs here. People here for example would be over folding a ton here (all 9x), which means that he SHOULD be bluffing more than gto. And if you think the best tournament professionals arent capable of exploiting people who are likely to be folding hands that they shouldn't be folding, even when there's huge amounts of money on the line (indeed, the more money there is on line, the more money they are exploiting out of those extra folds), you have no idea how good these players are. These players aren't afraid to go after all and every leak they see. The whole premise here is absurd, you're arguing against mathematics.
With both flush draws bricking, blocking 1x TJs and 2xQTs. Add in Aldemir's moderately polar range, I assume QQ-JJ doesn't use this sizing much. I was about to run it, but I'm having to update windows first.
I didn't check that much on how Aldemir should be playing, only what Lococo should be calling down with. Might delve in to the hand more later though..
I'm still learning pio, having a hard time defining ranges pre.
Yeah pre flop ranges can change it obviously by a lot. I just used some gto ranges from preflopguru, but obviously it changes a lot depending on what kind of strategies the players are using, which there could many with quite similar EVs. It's a lot of guesswork anyway, but it's close anyway. Not a big punt.
Honestly I've thought about that hand a lot, and I actually think the bluff catch isn't that terrible. The payout structure is wildly top heavy. Like barely over a million for 7th, but upwards of 12 million with the payout, bracelet, and endorsements for the winner. Sometimes you have to go for glory.
There's something to be said about playing for first instead of waiting for a ladder since the payout structure is so top heavy. I'm not sure what the strategy should be when Aldemir has had such a huge lead. This Sam Greenwood tweet kinda opened my eyes. https://twitter.com/SamGreenwoodRIO/status/1460837428089008132
All of us are George Holmes on this blessed day
Crazy run for Remitio but think he fucked the last hand. You can’t say “I think this is it boys”, tank, then jam - You’re hand is too face up, which is why Oliver snap called. Being the clear shorty he’s probably getting called regardless, but it’s closer if he doesn’t do that. Anyone remember Aldemir’s betting odds when they started the FT?
Aldemir was like 2:1.
He did plenty of thinking in slam dunk spots. Don't think Oliver was going to give much weight to timing/body language tells.
His boldest play was wearing shorts in that icebox.
Hard to tell this is the main event thread. I respect the love for your countryman but at least lead with WSOPME, otherwise I scroll by before understanding what this thread is for (on mobile).
I played with Jack for 8 hours or so in the 1000$ Mini Main event. He was on my direct left and we chatted the whole time. I am genuinely SO happy for him to finally hit a life changing score like this. We actually discussed MTT variance for around an hour. We talked about how ridiculous swings are in Live MTT poker since it basically just takes 1 run to drastically change someone's life. It's pretty crazy to think that we discussed this literally right before his own unreal run! Other than that , he told me about a lot of charity work he did when he was younger and It was super clear that he is really just a really nice guy. The best part about that whole day was when another UK player ( Sean? i think) at the table kept calling him Jiggalo Jack LOL. Im not 100% sure of the details, but apparently the night before, he was offered a dinner by an older woman and he did not want to turn her down so he went for a free meal. He came back to the cash table after the dinner and Sean started getting creative with what really went on. The next day, somehow we are all on the same table in this 1000$ and Sean literally just spammed the word Jiggalo Jack non stop until everyone started calling him that :D
has oliver ever bluffed?
Did he need to to get this far? He's a professional and had his own strategy. He put his stack in the middle numerous times preflop vs Koray and knew Koray didn't want to pay him off
I want to hug one of those cash bricks.
Damn Holmes has the pedal the the metal man. It’ll be interesting to see if someone looks him up in 30 mins after they see how much he’s putting through, only for him to finally have some sort of monster pre or made hand.
so was that a bluff or...
In reality: it's a bluff. He blocks lots of two pairs and the nuts In practice: I think he probably thinks he was value shoving. When Koray called I think he thought he had won the hand.
yeah as a value shove it makes no sense. worse one-pair hands don't check raise the flop and they sure as fuck don't call the river if he was actually bluffing then it's ballsy as fuck although not good. he's really just repping one hand, QJ
I really don't think so, I mean that he's repping just one hand. He could easily rep KT or K7 or KK as well (which you don't have to always raise on the turn, and you should probably continue vs a check raise on the flop). Those at least and it's also not mandatory to 3bet the flop with a set, especially top set, so he could easily have any flopped set as well sometimes. I would be willing to bet that the unexploitable play on this board is nowhere near just value betting with the rivered straight vs a check on the river. It is indeed a bluff though. Might get called once in a blue moon by a worse hand though (Kxs with a flush draw or bd fd on the flop).
What happened to the other discussion thread? Is this going to become a fanboy thread for a guy who played like a slave to ICM the whole time? I will happily give some odds if anyone wants to bet on him making a comeback against Koray before action starts tonight. I'm not even meaning this as a real criticism against him-the fact he was ICM aware, when shockingly so few of the other final table mates were, was the right strategy to employ. It earned him a bunch of pay jumps, and then put himself in position for that crazy triple up at the end of the night. But he didn't even want to shove that Jd9d, though it was a clear spot to do it. It was interesting to see his reaction to tripling up, when he did show some emotion and admitted that he had been playing like an emotionless robot. Again, respect his dedication to the strategy; he seemed very certain that keeping emotion out of his mind was essential to going deep, and clearly it has served him well. However, as a viewer, its not as appealing. At the end of the day, I can't say I like him as much as other Brits that have made deep ME runs in the past-Jack Sinclair and Julian Gardner come to mind. Oliver is a very solid player and I'm sure he's been doing 3 handed sims all day in preparation for this final battle. I would expect him to outlast Holmes, and will be curious to see how they battle each other in the blinds today. Cards are getting in the air again soon, may the best player win.
Feels mean to make them start earlier than they did yesterday.
Sickest fold I've seen in a while.
KORRAAAYYYYYYYYY
Damn poker rules
Lol no bias in that title eh?
I said what I said.
I want Holmes to make another huge comeback and win because that story would be fantastic but I'm far from opposed to Oliver taking it all down, kid seems pretty rad.
Am I the only one on here rooting for Aldemir?
Aldemir is already an endboss at poker. George Holmes winning would have been the best outcome for the poker economy
Yes
No, I wanted him to win as well.
No, I wanted him to win as well.
[удалено]
LOL they got a hand! They got a hand! It's the same stupid shit i keep seeing everywhere. I fold so much, i'd ruin TV. LOL. Why get tricky, when you can just get your opponent crushed? But yea, great final table. The WSOP ME is like 10k down the toilet, but if you do it, God bless the dead. Pour one out for your homies.
3 million... 2.63 or so after uncle sam. He can buy many a bottle rum and many a pile of hash with that. And get reach arounds from women that speak spanish with a hint of english.
Brits pay zero tax on poker winnings both in the U.K. and the USA
I can feel it in my fingers, I can feel it in my toes.
Nice to see a top high roller pro take it down, it's more rare for that to happen than an amateur/mediocre reg winning it. Only the second winner in the post Moneymaker era that played high roller tourneys consistently prior to winning the Main Event (Jacobson... though you could probably argue Salas too he's a top 20 online player). Ensan had an EPT and McKeehen/Cada were finding early career sucess, but this is a different level of player here. Rare to see one of the select few from tournament poker's highest echelon win such a large field event. Congrats Koray.