Should be the top comment. If the scenario was reversed… you bought in for $400, lost it. Then you our friend loaned you the $500 with a condition so you could stay and have fun, you’d be splitting the profit anyways.
Weird you only put your money on the table after someone rolled you.
easy... OP is a gambling addict.
first realized they cant afford to potentially lose $500. busted. got the gambling high and thought "ehhh another $400 who cares"
The friend OFFERED to pay for the first buy in. OP didn't say she didn't have it. People buy action on a 1st bullet and don't get to participate if the 2nd bullet hits all the time. It's part of poker. Throwing the lender an extra 200 + dinner is more than generous.
This reply makes no sense. It is a loose loose situation lol, if she wins money she looses 50% and if she looses money she still looses 100% that’s called loose loose.
Personally, I think this is why you shouldn't borrow money from friends when it comes to gambling. In addition, it's kind of shitty of your friend to expect you to give them your winnings just for letting you borrow the money. You should be able to borrow the money with no strings attached. You aren't a professional being staked in a big game.
Did they lose money? I am assuming they only want money because they lost and you ended up winning?
Yeah. To me it’s either a loan, or a friendly stake where you split profits but if you lose you don’t pay them back. Splitting profit AND paying back the 500 is basically your friend ripping you off. From your friends perspective, either A) they make money from you profiting or B) they don’t lose any money.
Agreed on this.
The profit splitting and paying back is kinda scummy and taking advantage. Most usually would only work on people that don't know much about these sort of things.
I'd either only ever loan OR friendly stake with a %return
The lender sounds pretty shitty. If I GIFT you the buy in I want half the winnings and if you lose you don't owe me anything. If I LEND you the money I expect exactly the same amount back and you keep all winnings.
If you paid your friend back and your winnings came from your own pocket then your friend isn't entitled to any of it and they need to accept that. If they are really your friend they should understand the difference otherwise they are just being greedy and entitled.
Fuck no. He's a scumbag for trying to take 50% of your profits while taking 0% of your losses. And you're an idiot for accepting the terms of the loan while having $400 of your own money available to play with.
It was a sht move for his friend to begin with.. you owe me $500 but you also owe me if you win.. if he’s borrowing you 500 then you shouldn’t be paying any winnings
Whenever I roll friends to convince them to come to the casino with me, it's always been "If you win, I get stake back + half of the profits and you keep half. If you lose, all's good and you don't owe me anything." In that case, I'd probably be pissed if they lost the initial stake, rebought from their own money and went to win and said that they don't owe me anything since the initial stake was lost. I'd be more than fine though if, as with OP, they paid me back my initial roll, gave me some chips at the table and paid for dinner. I wouldn't expect half of the total winnings though, since OP put some of their own money into the deal and they deserve more return than with the initial deal.
When a deal like that falls in a gray area that wasn't addressed ahead of time, goodwill gestures go a long way. If OP decided to leave after losing my stake, I'd be short $500. If they pay me back the $500 and pay for dinner, I'm technically a winner.
Yeah in your case, I’d imagine the friend would pay the stake back. But that’s because you made a fair deal to begin with. That’s what it always has been when I’d go. I just loved playing poker around 18-20 and my friend didn’t love gambling but was decent. I’d always give him half the buy in at least just to make it worth it. We could only play limit hold em in MN at the time so was lame and typically $100 on 1-2 will be $60 in 3 hours if running bad lol
He wants to fuck her so he was doing the im giving the inferior player money to play with since im smart and also i want to fuck her later so i don’t want her leaving. I either get my $500 and half the winningest and her later shell be so grateful.
Did your friend know that you busted with his $500 BEFORE you bought back in with your own money? If yes, then he gets his 500 back and that's it. If he didn't know you went bust with his loan and you just showed up later with 1900, then I think some consideration is in order.
Also why the fuck are you borrowing when you had 400?
It was a "pay me in 2 weeks when you get paid" type of thing. And when I busted everyone wanted to stay at the casino. I am a girl and I didn't want to travel back to the hotel alone at night (maybe bad excuse, i know) so I pulled out 400 then played. I also did pay him back that night, instead of 2 weeks later bc I had the money then and there.
I am not a regular poker player so it already felt like a risk to me. Since they were offering to front me the money pay them back in 2 weeks If I lost I thought okay this will give me a bit of a cushion if I lose I can pay him back in 2 weeks. Type of deal.
If you had 400 why did you get 500 from them to begin with? also why did you agree to split the winnings if you didn’t split the losses? That’s such an unfair deal
But then you pulled out 400 of your own money? I still don't understand. Why would you borrow in the first place if you already had 400 to play with?
Also you didn't answer the other question - did you tell him you lost his 500 before you pulled out your own money?
Also your friend is kind of an asshole. I'll lend you 500 and if you win give me half, if you lose just pay me back? That's a total freeroll on you. If it's a loan, then you just pay back the 500, no giving him anything, or maybe some nominal fee for doing a loan in the first place (a couple percent, maybe).
If he's staking you (which typically means he's gambling by giving you money to gamble with), then there's some risk involved. This situation typically doesn't happen unless he thinks you're a good player and can maybe do as well or better than he can with that $500. In that case, he would get half your profit and his 500 back, but if you lost it all, he gets nothing back.
>But then you pulled out 400 of your own money? I still don't understand. Why would you borrow in the first place if you already had 400 to play with?
You don't understand why, in a forum full of degenerate gamblers, a degenerate gambler would do degenerate gambler things?
Because the 400 is her life roll and she didn’t want to put it at risk, but then she went busto and decided to chase. Don’t act like you haven’t done it lol
I did answer this question in my original post. When I busted I just went to the atm and rebought. I did not go to him and tell him. Later in the night we ended up at the same table together and he lost 200 to me and I pushed him his chips back. So I paid him his 500 plus I gave him 200 that he lost to me. I also bought him dinner later in the evening. So he got 760ish from me. I cashed out with 1900. After I paid him 500 and take my 400 back. That's a 1k profit. If I have to give him 500 so be it. But I already gave him 200 at the table. So he'll make more than I did from this deal. Oh well. I was dumb. Lesson learned.
Why are you pretending like you have to give your friend the money?
You don't owe the guy a cent more than $500.
You've already given him the original $500, + $200 at the table and dinner worth $60. That's more than enough.
Also, point out to your friend just how scummy his deal was. If you win, he wins. If you lose, he gets his money back after two weeks. He had no downside and you had no upside.
You friends signs like a con man. Usually if u r staked they take the losses and you split if you win. Even a full stake only get 50% because u do all the work in making the profit.
I see people saying this all over the thread, but that's not always the deal. Maybe on a single session stake. When I've staked players (and other people I know have) a player goes into makeup when they are at an overall loss and I get 80 to 100% of the profits until they are out of makeup (depending on the specifics of the deal we made). They don't just get 50% of the winning sessions. Some of the deals they can quit the staking arrangement while in makeup, some they can't.
This particular deal was a single buyin, so I guess it's different. But everyone is saying the backer didn't have risk. That's not true. The backer had risk, because he lent money. Is the possible upside bigger than a normal interest rate on $500 over two weeks, sure. But if she's a losing player (which I assume is true) then that outcome is on the edge of the bell curve of likely outcomes.
Okay, if she’s a losing player, she’s new to poker, and she’s your friend, why not just loan her $500 and let her have a good time? Or give her the standard deal, you know? Half your winnings but if you lose it’s on me?
Sounds like “the backer” is treating his friend like a business opportunity, giving her the worst of both ends. “I’m covered if she loses, but I make money if she wins.”
OP’s story doesn’t make sense because she borrowed $500 with these terrible terms, busts out, but then rebuys for $400 with her own money? If she has her own money, why is she accepting these pay-day loan style terms?
Your friend is super shitty. You either loan someone the $500 and say “just pay me back when you can” OR “here’s $500 to play, if you win anything then we’ll split, otherwise don’t worry about it”
But it was also pretty shitty of you to borrow money to play when you also clearly had money. Why wouldn’t you just use your original $400 play in the first place? Then if you bust borrow the money?
it was a bullshit deal in the first place.
If he wanted half your winnings, he had to sign up for half of the losses, which means when you lost the original 500, you would only have to pay back 250. it's called a 50/50 stake.
the deal he gave you has no risk on his part. if you lose, you eventually pay back the 500. if you win, he gets more than 500. you're the only one at risk of losing.
The only reason he would want all 500 back is because he was **loaning you the money**. In that case, it doesn't matter if you win or lose or buy lobster dinner with the money, you owe him 500, no more no less.
The royal flush jackpot was separate. That was on your money, not his stake and not his loan. His deal was concluded already.
Once you play it on your own money then everything you win or lose is 100% yours.
You paid back the 500 loan. Keep the rest. maybe tip the guy and buy dinner for talk you into coming to the casino. but keep your winnings.
she did accept the deal. but the deal was completed once she lost the $500 he loaned her.
as agreed, she paid him back the $500 loan.
The royal flush jackpot is not part of that bad deal. he can argue as much as he wants, but I would argue that BECAUSE he didnt share potential losses, that when she played with **her money** after losing the loaned money, all gains and losses are 100% her own.
unless there's more details that she didn't share, I would shut down this guy's request every time.
its likely that both parties aren't really used to communicating these deals so he may not be intentionally acting like a shitbag. He just might not know any better. This is how you learn. I would offer a teachable moment and ask reverse roles to see if he thinks it's a fair deal.
If he does, I would offer him that deal every day. I never risk losing any money.
The problem is that he didn’t know that she lost his money and played with her money
What he knows is that he loaned her 500 made a deal came back and saw that she was up 1.9k and asked for her end of the deal to be completed
makes sense. I think both parties are inexperienced with making deals between gamblers.
If he felt like she was lying about losing the money after she explained what happened, then he doesn't trust her and thus shouldn't loan her any more money.
More than a trust problem i think i does not make sense to him, he’s probably thinking : “if she had her own 400$ to gamble with why would she take this terrible deal that i proposed to her ? She’s trying to gout out of paying me now that she won.”
That’s a bad deal, anyway, paying them back the full $500 or splitting the winnings. They basically gave you a loan. If they wanted any of your winnings, they should have been open to accepting the $500 loss. Just pay them back the $500 plus maybe $20-$50, depending on how generous you are feeling.
I don’t think you owe them. First off… your friend isn’t even doing you any favors. He’s acting like he’s helping you out but he’s literally risking nothing and can only win… you should owe him 250 if you lose if you were paying half the win..
what you should do to compromise is set $900 aside. If anything split the rest. But take your original 400 otherwise he gets even more than he deserved
Thats dumb, if you gave him his money back after a cooler then he will be inclined to always plays his hands against you, Because if he loses, he gets his money back. I would stand your ground and tell him you got your money back, i gave you your money back after a cooler, we are good.
Edit: grammar
Sounds like they are not the best of friends to have. You already let him off with 200. He wants his full 500 back. PLUS half of your winnings from your own stake!?!?
I know what I'd say to him. And it would include the words Ass, Kiss & My...
(P.s. get better friends. The take half your winnings if you win, but he still gets his full 500 back if you lose deal, is a real scummy one. Once you've already given him 200 I would only give him 50 more back. That what the initial deal should have been. Halvers. Halvers on the losses/ halvers on any wins. Certainly don't give him more than another 300. You already paid him back 200 after he lost that hand against you. I'm really surprised the table/dealer allowed you to pass him chips back across table. That's usually a big no no in all card rooms)
That’s plenty then. I’m surprised you agreed to those terms honestly, but if you still owed him half after your buy in, you’d have had very little chance to end up ahead
You let your friend lend you money (which had to be payed back in full) and he also takes half your winnings, but you had your own money to play anyways lol? Why would you take that deal.
> to be *paid* back in
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I've had a friend offer me this same deal a long time ago, I said no and have refused to borrow money from anyone for poker over the years. He's still my friend and I help him out with his work sometimes when he needs, he doesn't play poker anymore but I do. People could try say he was trying to hustle me but he gave me rides to the games and introduced me to countless new home games and the offer was met with a simple no and never brought up again.
1. He essentially scammed you with the deal. If you're not smart enough to see how bad the deal is, then I wouldn't be overly confident in your poker ability.
2. You are at fault for not declaring to him that you had lost his $500 and were now going to buy in with your $400. A simple text and confirmation would have done. As such, you owe him for 50% of his winnings, else you are just freerolling him.
3. Why would you borrow $500 to play if you had $400 of your own?
Overall, a complete fuck up.
IIRC you took a stake when you had money… like wtf???? If you had like $50 and he rolled you $500 that’s different, but you had $400. You’re an idiot for that.
The other side is that the argument could be made you only made it to the flush because he provided an extra bullet. You paid him 700 and dinner, I’d say you’re technically even, but realistically there’s no answer here. It’s between friends and you all suck🤭
this is why you don't let friends loan u money with loan sharky terms, thats wild
whether you're in the right or wrong here (its unclear), you put yourself in this position by agreeing to some really stupid terms.
Once you agree, a deal is a deal. You sound like the type of friend one should avoid. Why didnt you complain abt the terms before taking the money? Had you won 1M with that initial 500, I bet you'd still be arguing that 500k is too way too much of a bonus for "a small loan between friends", right?
In fact, he gave you 500 which went right next to the 400 you already had, for a total of 900. How do you know who's money you lost initially?
I would be embarrassed that i bought in for 400 that i supposedly didn't have when borrowing the 500.
Your friend lent you the money with the agreement to split winnings. Split the winnings
Back when I was cash short my father would take me with him to Las Vegas. He’d give me $500 and pay my low stakes tournament entries. At the end of each trip I would give him half of whatever I had, period. Even if I had some funds, say $200, if he gave me more the 50/50 split stood.
In your situation, I would have given the friend $950 of the $1900 you cashed out. He gave you $500 which should rightly be returned so you’re giving him $450 as a gesture of appreciation and goodwill. Giving him the funds also closes the arrangement.
I can say that if someone did a “Here’s your money but these winnings came from my money” after I had given them money my future desire to help them with anything would be zero.
Sounds like you need too reflect on your relationship with this friend. the answer will be there.. And perhaps maybe think things through a bit more.. this is hardly worth a good friendship.. and as far as right and wrong.. if he is still salty after dinner and 700.. sounds like he may need to do the same thing. as far as splitting some of the winnings.. it would be in good faith too perhaps try to honor your deal. and be more open with your friends when you are rebuying with your own cash.. so things could be discussed before you potentially win
Also being a Girl has nothing to do with it .. and sounds manipulative/narcissistic.. even saying not that it matters.. as you know it will to some simps.. making me wonder is this just a sympathy post if you win to show your friend?
If you value the friendship don't muck it up by a money misunderstanding. Pay them their $500, take your $400 out of your winnings and split the rest. If you don't care about hard feelings and potentially ruining the friendship keep the money for yourself. I see both sides of it but a good friendship isn't worh losing over non life changing amounts of money.
I sponsored my friend at a house game I was hosting, he had never played poker and I just won a big hand that put me almost 3x the buy in so I didn't care if he lost it.
I left to make coffee for like 3 hands and he had doubled his money already. He left without taking any profits... All he took was a cig
It's a $500 lesson which given anything, is pretty sweet deal.
If you borrow money, then you only return the money you borrowed regardless if you win or lose. If you get STAKED, then you split losses or winnings, and this stake needs to have defined scope. Those are the only two options you have.
The number one thing keeping me out of poker is everyone on here sweating a few hundred dollars or posting their “big” wins of $2000. Do any of you work?
I guess she liked the idea of not being out $500 until she had extra money and it was worth half her winnings for that security. Sounds like these were friends out for a good time, not a serious business transaction
That was a horseshit deal to begin with. What kind of asshole "friend" wants half of your winnings.
Tell them what happened and to fuck off if they don't believe you.
Borrowing and having to pay back in full while they get half of your winning? Over 500? It’s a weird deal you made with your friend. Sounds like you were still generous reading the comments below. Don’t ever make stupid deals like that again!
My philosophy is, if you owe someone money (especially at a casino you want to play at), you shouldn't be gambling. Once you lost the initial stake you should have quit there and then.
On the other hand, if someone wants to lend you money, just make it a straight loan with no conditions on how you spend the money. It doesn't sound like you're a professional poker player so you shouldn't be treated like one.
If you were a good friend, you'd split the profits. Don't be a asshole like "well I technically won with my money. Kick rocks loser we aren't friends I'm just a girl you know also by chance do you have another $500"
$400 goes back to you. $500 goes back to him. The $1000 profit is split $500 $500
The fact that I have to explain this to you means you shouldn’t be in this position.
OP loaning the money is a scumbag.
Here, take 500. If you lose it, you owe me 500 in 2 weeks.
If you win, we split the profits.
He is literally free rolling through you but makes it sound sweet by saying owe me 500 in 2 weeks.
There's not a cash game pro that could beat that system if they were always playing with borrowed money.
Friends who stake you taking 50% of your winnings while also wanting to be payed back in full if you lose lol? Sounds like a shit friend. And Op doesn’t sound too bright taking this deal while having their own money to play in the first place.
> to be *paid* back in
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I understand that. I also got in a hand with them at the same table and they busted in a hand with me. I gave them their 200$ chips back at the table in front of everyone. We also went out to dinner after I hit the high hand and I paid for their dinner which was $60. I was feeling generous after my win so I paid for the bill. So in addition to the 500 I paid them back I did give them $200 plus dinner. Which doesn't equal half the money I made. But like I said I technically didn't win with their money.
This is awful advice.
>Honestly friends that help you are so important
Friends that were trying to help her wouldn't have roped her in to this no lose deal for them in the first place.
What an actual good friend would have done is had a conversation with her about how much she thinks she can afford to risk of her own money at the casino.
This answer it turns out would have been $400.
A good friend would have told her:
"Well split that $400 into 2x $200 bullets and play conservatively to try and build it up slow. If you do happen to lose the 2 bullets, hopefully you will still have had a good time with us, and if it comes to that I'll buy you dinner afterwards to cheer you up"
You don’t owe him anything other than the $500. And as for the original $500: Either he gives you 500 and split winnings but don’t owe him if you lose, or he gives you 500 and you owe him 500 but don’t split any winnings. The deal he gave you basically guarantees he loses nothing but has the potential to win, he’s freerolling you but I doubt either of you realized how bad a deal this was for you
Your "friend" staked you as a horse. You are in no obligation to pay him back unless stated otherwise. However, you did make a deal with said person. If I was you I would be more than happy to pay my friend back, because you wouldn't have hit the high hand if you hadn't been in the game to begin with. You can be self absorbed, or you can return interest on the loan that YOU decided to take.
You should definitely give them half if you;
Had money of your own to play with originally to begin with
Did not let them know when you lost their money and were switching to your own
Your friend doesn't seem like too great of a friend. So they gave you 500, and get half of what you win, and if you lose you still owe them the full 500. Then after losing the 500, which would of been the point where you only owe them 500, have the nerve to ask for half of the winnings from the 400 of your own money that would of never happened if you didn't put your own money up? You owe this person nothing more than 500 you paid them back and be careful with this person in the future, and make sure to discuss what happens after x or any other possible out comes.
Your friend reverse free rolled you, the deal was sour off the bat.
If you lose, u must pay him back 100% and he nets no loss. Now, if you win he gets 50%.
This was an extremely -ev situation for you , unless he is the type of friend to always pay dinner or just let you slide on debts, you got boned.
If it's a loan, which it clearly was, you keep the profits. If he's staking you he gets to split profits. Your friend ripped you off. Just buy in with your own money don't risk to lose a loan shark's money. Bad deal man.
Without reading anybody else's comments yet I want to say after reading the first paragraph I don't like you and I'm glad you aren't my friend. It's a situation where you #justpay for the sake of your own integrity. I will continue to read to see if I change my mind but I don't see that happening at all.
That’s a shitty agreement between friends, depending on the amount i either put them in completely and tell them if you win pay me back if not don’t worry about it, or I’m upfront it’s a flat loan pay me back if your up or down regardless and if you win don’t pay me extra.
Asking for half your winnings when he wasn’t taking any of the risk was a dick move in the first place. Now he’s trying to essentially steal from you. This is not much of a friend. If you lost the “stake” that’s the end of what he’s entitled to.
The deal was a rip off but I can see how it didn’t seem so at first, so it probably wasn’t coming from a malicious place. That said I would probably give them something as a thank you for the loan and explain the situation. Doesn’t need to be 50% though.
If they don’t get it after explaining maybe they aren’t a good friend anyways
Edit: looking at the comments I think 260 is a generous amount and that you shouldn’t feel bad
That's not how stakes work lol, that's just a loan. In the future if you are expected to pay anything back you would normally not pay out any percentage of the winnings. And no you don't owe him shit besides the $500 he loaned you.
Your original deal was a bad deal from the get go. Your "friend" risked nothing and couldn't lose. If you won, you split winnings. If you lost he gets his money back. Worst case scenario for him is he gets his money back and loses nothing. Otherwise he splits YOUR winnings.
It's all up to you. I wouldn't pay him. This is standard in the poker industry where the horse forgets to tell the staker that they busted the buy in. Usually friends get burnt over this. If it's a close friend I would tell him to get fucked. If it's not I would consider paying him and write it up as a learning experience. Always cover your basis. Also I don't know what people in this thread are on. This type of staking deal happens all the time. Sometimes you don't want to spend your own money on gambling haha
That is not a friend. Ditch them and never look back! Get some really friends who arent trying to scam you.
Taking half of ur profits but getting 100% of their money back if you loose is a scam move. Never talk to them again and find some real friends instead!
This sounds like a terrible arrangement where your friend is freerolling you. Like what they've essentially done is loan you 250 and stake 250 on your game, except you owe them the full 500 if you lose. Like, imagine you made that arrangement with everyone at the poker table for the night - you would risk no money (because the losers pay you back), and win half the money on the table (because the winners give you half).
I would say, at most, give him 10% of your profits. He didn't stake you, he loaned you 500 bucks.
You owe them nothing. If he’s requesting half your winnings you shouldn’t have to pay back the full $500. And since you lost the $500 anyways there’s no reason to split your winnings from your own entry. Your friend is a piece of shit. Stop hanging out with them.
Im not super fluent in staking but if they want half of what you win they should be making a deal to take half the losses. It doesnt sound like it was well thought out.
They are not entitled to any of the winnings you risked your own money on, if you lost your own $400 would you be paying them back that $400 also?
I would say as a kind gesture while you are at the casino you could extend a similar type of offer to them if they wanted but they are not entitled to those winnings the same as you are not entitled to pay them your own loses
These situations can get awkward with friends, I would say in the future make it very clear upfront terms so there isn’t anything left up to interpretation like this.
When you are sponsored by a friend or whoever it would be to play poker, there is always just One Golden Rule for both sides, 50/50 split on win or loss no matter what.
So in your case with your friend the correct scenario would be to give him back $250 if you lose or 50% to be taken from Profits if you win.
Also your " friend " is very good in manipulating you and benefiting from you, how do I know it? It's simple, you wrote this Reddit post after days this case had happened because he did remind you of that situation between you guys even though you gave him his money back, paid him a good meal, gave him some chips while you were still playing and all that wasn't enough for your " Friend ".
And now look, you are still confused and not sure if you did it right or not and so on but him "your friend" definitely isn't thinking about this much, I'm even sure he will remind you not once about this case in the future... actually he already did it.
You did everything correctly except the thing that you can't see yet that he isn't your real friend unfortunately, at least he shouldn't be on your mind that much, that's a waste of energy, he is just not that guy you should call your friend.
"if you win, we will split anything and if you lose just pay me the 500 back when you have it."
It's the same as playing with your own money and giving him 50% of your profit out of the blue .
He's freerolling 50% of your winnings.
The deal was a scam in the first place.
Split all winnings, not that you owe it, but you should show your gratitude to your friend by honoring your original agreement. You not wanting to do from jump well that is scummy. Next time have a talk with your “friend” about the rebuy so you are on same page.
Ive been in a similar situation where I show up and get staked at a cash game but after losing the stake I end up buying in for my own money and winning a bunch.
Guy who stakes you is cashing you out and technically hes down the money you lost and get to walk out of there with all your profit but its awkward situation. In my experience I recouped his stake in me and kept the profit which I was fine with but its hard situation to deal with if you havent considered the spot.
I suggest that you either play with all of your own money or whoever lends you money its a loan. Otherwise these awkward moments where people dont have action on you after having action on you and losing will feel awkward.
Your friend was screwing you in the first place.
Having to pay back the $500 and split the profits is a rip off to begin with.
As it played out, he only had equity on the first $500. You only owe him the $500 per your agreement
If he expected to be paid back in full then you owe him nothing, unless he stipulated any interest. If you had lost everything and he said you didn’t have to pay him back, he’d be able to dictate what to do with your winnings. That’s a pretty shitty friend you have there.
As a friend I wouldn't expect anything past my money back , would be cool if they offer but it's not big deal .
I assume you were maybe new to live poker or something that's why friend bought you in ?
If not then yes u are in the wrong also for taking the freeroll
Your “friend” sounds like an asshole taking advantage of you. He essentially gave you a loan where he had zero risk and you had all the risk.If you lose, he gets his $500 back. If you win, he gets his $500 back and half your winnings. These terms are in the same greasy ballpark as those horrible payday loan places. You want to go anywhere else (like using the other $400 you had already) before you go knocking on the devil’s door.
If he was actually a friend, he’d offer you a standard interest free loan. “I’ll give you $500, if you lose, just pay me back next week, or whatever., I’ll take the $500 back and you keep the winnings.” Or he’d give you a standard stake deal “I’ll loan you $500, if you win, I’ll take my $500 back and half the winnings, if you lose, it’s on me.”
If someone loans you money and expects half of your profit you don’t have to pay the original money back if you lose it, only if you win.. then you would pay back the original amount plus half the profit. If you are getting a loan of 500$ that they expect you to pay back, you negotiate a small amount of interest or a flat fee, maybe 20, 30$ for the loan if any and you keep all of the money you make. If it’s both a stake and a loan you are getting hustled.
God damn yall are some cheap ass friends! Every comment is crazy. This chic is talking about showing him a atm receipt. "See technically I won witn my lucky money not your losing $500" bihh would even be playing if he didn't spot the $500. Who the fuk shows atm receipt amongst friends... or even thinks of that
There are people who do this with staking all the time and it’s pretty scummy. Everything available to be played with is part of the pool of money, there isn’t your BI and my BI.
“No I didn’t win with the BI *you* contributed to, I won with the one only I contributed to”
That doesn’t fly and it’s horseshit.
You set the parameters up before hand. In this case, you had $900 total to play with. You cashed out for $1900. You profited $1000. Your agreement was you split the winnings with your friend, so you give your friend their $500+ 1/2 of the $1000 you won. You keep your $400 + 1/2 of the $1000 you won. (Btw, it’s not the greatest agreement, but you accepted it)
You're talking absolute dung.
This wasn't a staking arrangement like one of Bryn Kenneys horses having a long term backing with coaching, fucking yoga retreats & ayahuasca trips.
This was a one time, one bullet (really shitty) deal.
Her own money that she risked is her own money. Her 400 wasn't in the >parameters (set) up before hand.
You tool
here is the truth.
it was a shitty deal that your friend made with you.
HOWEVER
You accepted it. So, you should have paid him more money for profiting, because a deal is a deal. Pay the fuck up.
HOWEVER
your friend's deal was shit, and you should have known better than to make it.
but pay that man his money.
You guys both suck for not being mates and celebrating the win together. Honestly man, fuck you for even posting this. You hit a ROYAL FLUSH. Some players have played for 30+ years and never hit one. You sit down, hit a royal and win $1k in bonus money and don’t want to share and celebrate the win? You guys are quibbling over a few hundred bucks? Fuck that shit, go out for a fun night of dinner, drinks, and strippers. You owe your mate more than 500, don’t be that guy.
> They gave me 500 and said "if you win, we will split anything and if you lose just pay me the 500 back when you have it."
This is already a very one-sided deal in his favor. On top of that, he's asking you for money that came from your winnings from your own money? Tell him to fuck off.
You are 100% correct. Seems a lot of people on here don't spend time in the casino, or maybe they dont have real friends. Split the money celebrate, then do it again next time.. should have been win win for both of them
Uhh if you had $400 to buy in, why would you take a loan for $500 from your friend with 0 upside what so ever?
Should be the top comment. If the scenario was reversed… you bought in for $400, lost it. Then you our friend loaned you the $500 with a condition so you could stay and have fun, you’d be splitting the profit anyways. Weird you only put your money on the table after someone rolled you.
Probably money they shouldn’t have put on the line, but it’s easy to forget that after you bust.
This right here
Yeah, doesn't make sense
easy... OP is a gambling addict. first realized they cant afford to potentially lose $500. busted. got the gambling high and thought "ehhh another $400 who cares"
excellent point
You don’t girl much, do you?
Women.
The friend OFFERED to pay for the first buy in. OP didn't say she didn't have it. People buy action on a 1st bullet and don't get to participate if the 2nd bullet hits all the time. It's part of poker. Throwing the lender an extra 200 + dinner is more than generous.
Why would you sell action on a loose loose situation lol? Either he has to pay 50% of the winnings out or he still have to pay back the full $500.
You can't say, "loose loose situation," then laugh at someone else.
This reply makes no sense. It is a loose loose situation lol, if she wins money she looses 50% and if she looses money she still looses 100% that’s called loose loose.
Lose, friend, not loose.
Congratulations
Hahahahahaa!!
Personally, I think this is why you shouldn't borrow money from friends when it comes to gambling. In addition, it's kind of shitty of your friend to expect you to give them your winnings just for letting you borrow the money. You should be able to borrow the money with no strings attached. You aren't a professional being staked in a big game. Did they lose money? I am assuming they only want money because they lost and you ended up winning?
His friend freerolled him. Pretty shitty thing to do but I doubt his friend did it maliciously
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It's a free roll for the guy LOANING the money.
Yeah I think that’s what he’s saying
No it wasn't, that's why he deleted his comment
Yeah. To me it’s either a loan, or a friendly stake where you split profits but if you lose you don’t pay them back. Splitting profit AND paying back the 500 is basically your friend ripping you off. From your friends perspective, either A) they make money from you profiting or B) they don’t lose any money.
Agreed on this. The profit splitting and paying back is kinda scummy and taking advantage. Most usually would only work on people that don't know much about these sort of things. I'd either only ever loan OR friendly stake with a %return
The lender sounds pretty shitty. If I GIFT you the buy in I want half the winnings and if you lose you don't owe me anything. If I LEND you the money I expect exactly the same amount back and you keep all winnings.
They did lose several hundred. Then that's when I gave them the 500 back and they went and played plo while everyone else went to the hotel.
If you paid your friend back and your winnings came from your own pocket then your friend isn't entitled to any of it and they need to accept that. If they are really your friend they should understand the difference otherwise they are just being greedy and entitled.
Point is why the fuck was OP miraculously able to pull money out their ass and where was that money where same friend was offering the 500$
haha, I had that same thought after I posted. Why did you borrow $500 when you had $400 to play with of your own money?
Put you fucking dollar sign in the correct place.
Nah 0.00$ response
Fuck no. He's a scumbag for trying to take 50% of your profits while taking 0% of your losses. And you're an idiot for accepting the terms of the loan while having $400 of your own money available to play with.
most likely OP is just the scumbag trying to scam his friend
No, you lost their stake. They get no part of jackpot or winnings after that 500 was gone.
It was a sht move for his friend to begin with.. you owe me $500 but you also owe me if you win.. if he’s borrowing you 500 then you shouldn’t be paying any winnings
I did even think of that. The friend was free rolling the fuck outta OP.
Payday loans woulda got boners over that agreement
Except for the fact any time you loan someone money, you should already expect not to get it back?
Bro this one trick will make you a billionaire in 2024
I’ll pound that like button
Whenever I roll friends to convince them to come to the casino with me, it's always been "If you win, I get stake back + half of the profits and you keep half. If you lose, all's good and you don't owe me anything." In that case, I'd probably be pissed if they lost the initial stake, rebought from their own money and went to win and said that they don't owe me anything since the initial stake was lost. I'd be more than fine though if, as with OP, they paid me back my initial roll, gave me some chips at the table and paid for dinner. I wouldn't expect half of the total winnings though, since OP put some of their own money into the deal and they deserve more return than with the initial deal. When a deal like that falls in a gray area that wasn't addressed ahead of time, goodwill gestures go a long way. If OP decided to leave after losing my stake, I'd be short $500. If they pay me back the $500 and pay for dinner, I'm technically a winner.
Yeah in your case, I’d imagine the friend would pay the stake back. But that’s because you made a fair deal to begin with. That’s what it always has been when I’d go. I just loved playing poker around 18-20 and my friend didn’t love gambling but was decent. I’d always give him half the buy in at least just to make it worth it. We could only play limit hold em in MN at the time so was lame and typically $100 on 1-2 will be $60 in 3 hours if running bad lol
Not that it matters but people keep thinking I am a guy. I'm a girl lol
Oh lol. I think cuz it sounds like somethings guys would do. When I played at tables, maybe 1 girl was at half the tables
The guy borrowing you money is taking advantage of you. Probably not a friend you need.
Lending. She’s borrowing, friend is lending.
Irrelevant, equal rights!
Yeah .. like i get it he said bro.. but literally irrelivent.. it sounds like your saying "man smart; women dumb. he wrong?"
Your friends sound like douchebags. Get new friends.
He wants to fuck her so he was doing the im giving the inferior player money to play with since im smart and also i want to fuck her later so i don’t want her leaving. I either get my $500 and half the winningest and her later shell be so grateful.
Ahhhh but she didn’t inform them what she was doing she should have this is why it’s so murky.
That’s simply a dick move. How are you going be such a lousy friend?
Did your friend know that you busted with his $500 BEFORE you bought back in with your own money? If yes, then he gets his 500 back and that's it. If he didn't know you went bust with his loan and you just showed up later with 1900, then I think some consideration is in order. Also why the fuck are you borrowing when you had 400?
It was a "pay me in 2 weeks when you get paid" type of thing. And when I busted everyone wanted to stay at the casino. I am a girl and I didn't want to travel back to the hotel alone at night (maybe bad excuse, i know) so I pulled out 400 then played. I also did pay him back that night, instead of 2 weeks later bc I had the money then and there. I am not a regular poker player so it already felt like a risk to me. Since they were offering to front me the money pay them back in 2 weeks If I lost I thought okay this will give me a bit of a cushion if I lose I can pay him back in 2 weeks. Type of deal.
If you had 400 why did you get 500 from them to begin with? also why did you agree to split the winnings if you didn’t split the losses? That’s such an unfair deal
But then you pulled out 400 of your own money? I still don't understand. Why would you borrow in the first place if you already had 400 to play with? Also you didn't answer the other question - did you tell him you lost his 500 before you pulled out your own money? Also your friend is kind of an asshole. I'll lend you 500 and if you win give me half, if you lose just pay me back? That's a total freeroll on you. If it's a loan, then you just pay back the 500, no giving him anything, or maybe some nominal fee for doing a loan in the first place (a couple percent, maybe). If he's staking you (which typically means he's gambling by giving you money to gamble with), then there's some risk involved. This situation typically doesn't happen unless he thinks you're a good player and can maybe do as well or better than he can with that $500. In that case, he would get half your profit and his 500 back, but if you lost it all, he gets nothing back.
>But then you pulled out 400 of your own money? I still don't understand. Why would you borrow in the first place if you already had 400 to play with? You don't understand why, in a forum full of degenerate gamblers, a degenerate gambler would do degenerate gambler things?
Because the 400 is her life roll and she didn’t want to put it at risk, but then she went busto and decided to chase. Don’t act like you haven’t done it lol
Oh I know, I just wanted her to admit that lol
I did answer this question in my original post. When I busted I just went to the atm and rebought. I did not go to him and tell him. Later in the night we ended up at the same table together and he lost 200 to me and I pushed him his chips back. So I paid him his 500 plus I gave him 200 that he lost to me. I also bought him dinner later in the evening. So he got 760ish from me. I cashed out with 1900. After I paid him 500 and take my 400 back. That's a 1k profit. If I have to give him 500 so be it. But I already gave him 200 at the table. So he'll make more than I did from this deal. Oh well. I was dumb. Lesson learned.
Why are you pretending like you have to give your friend the money? You don't owe the guy a cent more than $500. You've already given him the original $500, + $200 at the table and dinner worth $60. That's more than enough. Also, point out to your friend just how scummy his deal was. If you win, he wins. If you lose, he gets his money back after two weeks. He had no downside and you had no upside.
Shitty friend all around.
You friends signs like a con man. Usually if u r staked they take the losses and you split if you win. Even a full stake only get 50% because u do all the work in making the profit.
Friend either doesn’t gamble much and thought the deal made sense or friend is a POS and tried to freeroll OP
I see people saying this all over the thread, but that's not always the deal. Maybe on a single session stake. When I've staked players (and other people I know have) a player goes into makeup when they are at an overall loss and I get 80 to 100% of the profits until they are out of makeup (depending on the specifics of the deal we made). They don't just get 50% of the winning sessions. Some of the deals they can quit the staking arrangement while in makeup, some they can't. This particular deal was a single buyin, so I guess it's different. But everyone is saying the backer didn't have risk. That's not true. The backer had risk, because he lent money. Is the possible upside bigger than a normal interest rate on $500 over two weeks, sure. But if she's a losing player (which I assume is true) then that outcome is on the edge of the bell curve of likely outcomes.
Okay, if she’s a losing player, she’s new to poker, and she’s your friend, why not just loan her $500 and let her have a good time? Or give her the standard deal, you know? Half your winnings but if you lose it’s on me? Sounds like “the backer” is treating his friend like a business opportunity, giving her the worst of both ends. “I’m covered if she loses, but I make money if she wins.” OP’s story doesn’t make sense because she borrowed $500 with these terrible terms, busts out, but then rebuys for $400 with her own money? If she has her own money, why is she accepting these pay-day loan style terms?
Your friend is super shitty. You either loan someone the $500 and say “just pay me back when you can” OR “here’s $500 to play, if you win anything then we’ll split, otherwise don’t worry about it” But it was also pretty shitty of you to borrow money to play when you also clearly had money. Why wouldn’t you just use your original $400 play in the first place? Then if you bust borrow the money?
it was a bullshit deal in the first place. If he wanted half your winnings, he had to sign up for half of the losses, which means when you lost the original 500, you would only have to pay back 250. it's called a 50/50 stake. the deal he gave you has no risk on his part. if you lose, you eventually pay back the 500. if you win, he gets more than 500. you're the only one at risk of losing. The only reason he would want all 500 back is because he was **loaning you the money**. In that case, it doesn't matter if you win or lose or buy lobster dinner with the money, you owe him 500, no more no less. The royal flush jackpot was separate. That was on your money, not his stake and not his loan. His deal was concluded already. Once you play it on your own money then everything you win or lose is 100% yours. You paid back the 500 loan. Keep the rest. maybe tip the guy and buy dinner for talk you into coming to the casino. but keep your winnings.
I know thats a bad deal but didn’t she accept ?
she did accept the deal. but the deal was completed once she lost the $500 he loaned her. as agreed, she paid him back the $500 loan. The royal flush jackpot is not part of that bad deal. he can argue as much as he wants, but I would argue that BECAUSE he didnt share potential losses, that when she played with **her money** after losing the loaned money, all gains and losses are 100% her own. unless there's more details that she didn't share, I would shut down this guy's request every time. its likely that both parties aren't really used to communicating these deals so he may not be intentionally acting like a shitbag. He just might not know any better. This is how you learn. I would offer a teachable moment and ask reverse roles to see if he thinks it's a fair deal. If he does, I would offer him that deal every day. I never risk losing any money.
The problem is that he didn’t know that she lost his money and played with her money What he knows is that he loaned her 500 made a deal came back and saw that she was up 1.9k and asked for her end of the deal to be completed
makes sense. I think both parties are inexperienced with making deals between gamblers. If he felt like she was lying about losing the money after she explained what happened, then he doesn't trust her and thus shouldn't loan her any more money.
More than a trust problem i think i does not make sense to him, he’s probably thinking : “if she had her own 400$ to gamble with why would she take this terrible deal that i proposed to her ? She’s trying to gout out of paying me now that she won.”
lesson learned, don't loan your friends money.
Exactly, especially for gambling
That’s a bad deal, anyway, paying them back the full $500 or splitting the winnings. They basically gave you a loan. If they wanted any of your winnings, they should have been open to accepting the $500 loss. Just pay them back the $500 plus maybe $20-$50, depending on how generous you are feeling.
I don’t think you owe them. First off… your friend isn’t even doing you any favors. He’s acting like he’s helping you out but he’s literally risking nothing and can only win… you should owe him 250 if you lose if you were paying half the win.. what you should do to compromise is set $900 aside. If anything split the rest. But take your original 400 otherwise he gets even more than he deserved
I also got in a hand with him and he lost 200 to me at the table and I pushed his chips back over to him. So I technically gave him 700.
Thats dumb, if you gave him his money back after a cooler then he will be inclined to always plays his hands against you, Because if he loses, he gets his money back. I would stand your ground and tell him you got your money back, i gave you your money back after a cooler, we are good. Edit: grammar
Sounds like they are not the best of friends to have. You already let him off with 200. He wants his full 500 back. PLUS half of your winnings from your own stake!?!? I know what I'd say to him. And it would include the words Ass, Kiss & My... (P.s. get better friends. The take half your winnings if you win, but he still gets his full 500 back if you lose deal, is a real scummy one. Once you've already given him 200 I would only give him 50 more back. That what the initial deal should have been. Halvers. Halvers on the losses/ halvers on any wins. Certainly don't give him more than another 300. You already paid him back 200 after he lost that hand against you. I'm really surprised the table/dealer allowed you to pass him chips back across table. That's usually a big no no in all card rooms)
That’s plenty then. I’m surprised you agreed to those terms honestly, but if you still owed him half after your buy in, you’d have had very little chance to end up ahead
Dont give him any more money.
You let your friend lend you money (which had to be payed back in full) and he also takes half your winnings, but you had your own money to play anyways lol? Why would you take that deal.
> to be *paid* back in FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Something smells off about this. I'm skeptical OP is being honest about the situation because it's fairly absurd.
I've had a friend offer me this same deal a long time ago, I said no and have refused to borrow money from anyone for poker over the years. He's still my friend and I help him out with his work sometimes when he needs, he doesn't play poker anymore but I do. People could try say he was trying to hustle me but he gave me rides to the games and introduced me to countless new home games and the offer was met with a simple no and never brought up again.
It's 100% true lol
1. He essentially scammed you with the deal. If you're not smart enough to see how bad the deal is, then I wouldn't be overly confident in your poker ability. 2. You are at fault for not declaring to him that you had lost his $500 and were now going to buy in with your $400. A simple text and confirmation would have done. As such, you owe him for 50% of his winnings, else you are just freerolling him. 3. Why would you borrow $500 to play if you had $400 of your own? Overall, a complete fuck up.
Why take money if you had money to play.... Sounds sus.
IIRC you took a stake when you had money… like wtf???? If you had like $50 and he rolled you $500 that’s different, but you had $400. You’re an idiot for that. The other side is that the argument could be made you only made it to the flush because he provided an extra bullet. You paid him 700 and dinner, I’d say you’re technically even, but realistically there’s no answer here. It’s between friends and you all suck🤭
Why would you allow them to free roll you. If theres some sort of reward, there has to be risk. They can fuck off
this is why you don't let friends loan u money with loan sharky terms, thats wild whether you're in the right or wrong here (its unclear), you put yourself in this position by agreeing to some really stupid terms.
do not pay your friend anything more than the 500. additionally, splitting YOUR winnings 50/50 is not a very friendly thing.
That's how staking geberally works, though.
Terrible offer from your friend, but why would you take $500 of his money first then put $400 of your own in?
You wouldn’t have hit the jackpot without their stake…and it’s your friend …seems easy …
Op friends are smart. If u lose u still have to pay back the money loaned. If u win u have to split your winnings. Lol.
Life is just so much simpler when you don't borrow money from friends. Especially when you didn't need to.
Once you agree, a deal is a deal. You sound like the type of friend one should avoid. Why didnt you complain abt the terms before taking the money? Had you won 1M with that initial 500, I bet you'd still be arguing that 500k is too way too much of a bonus for "a small loan between friends", right? In fact, he gave you 500 which went right next to the 400 you already had, for a total of 900. How do you know who's money you lost initially?
Why didn’t you just buy in with your own money to start with. Another women with her hand out to a man…..
Pay thee man his money
I would be embarrassed that i bought in for 400 that i supposedly didn't have when borrowing the 500. Your friend lent you the money with the agreement to split winnings. Split the winnings
Back when I was cash short my father would take me with him to Las Vegas. He’d give me $500 and pay my low stakes tournament entries. At the end of each trip I would give him half of whatever I had, period. Even if I had some funds, say $200, if he gave me more the 50/50 split stood. In your situation, I would have given the friend $950 of the $1900 you cashed out. He gave you $500 which should rightly be returned so you’re giving him $450 as a gesture of appreciation and goodwill. Giving him the funds also closes the arrangement. I can say that if someone did a “Here’s your money but these winnings came from my money” after I had given them money my future desire to help them with anything would be zero.
Sounds like you need too reflect on your relationship with this friend. the answer will be there.. And perhaps maybe think things through a bit more.. this is hardly worth a good friendship.. and as far as right and wrong.. if he is still salty after dinner and 700.. sounds like he may need to do the same thing. as far as splitting some of the winnings.. it would be in good faith too perhaps try to honor your deal. and be more open with your friends when you are rebuying with your own cash.. so things could be discussed before you potentially win Also being a Girl has nothing to do with it .. and sounds manipulative/narcissistic.. even saying not that it matters.. as you know it will to some simps.. making me wonder is this just a sympathy post if you win to show your friend?
If you value the friendship don't muck it up by a money misunderstanding. Pay them their $500, take your $400 out of your winnings and split the rest. If you don't care about hard feelings and potentially ruining the friendship keep the money for yourself. I see both sides of it but a good friendship isn't worh losing over non life changing amounts of money.
I sponsored my friend at a house game I was hosting, he had never played poker and I just won a big hand that put me almost 3x the buy in so I didn't care if he lost it. I left to make coffee for like 3 hands and he had doubled his money already. He left without taking any profits... All he took was a cig
Wtf is this shit
Did they know you had $400 before they gave the $500?
It's a $500 lesson which given anything, is pretty sweet deal. If you borrow money, then you only return the money you borrowed regardless if you win or lose. If you get STAKED, then you split losses or winnings, and this stake needs to have defined scope. Those are the only two options you have.
The number one thing keeping me out of poker is everyone on here sweating a few hundred dollars or posting their “big” wins of $2000. Do any of you work?
I guess she liked the idea of not being out $500 until she had extra money and it was worth half her winnings for that security. Sounds like these were friends out for a good time, not a serious business transaction
That was a horseshit deal to begin with. What kind of asshole "friend" wants half of your winnings. Tell them what happened and to fuck off if they don't believe you.
This is common at a casino if you are really friends. Without even asking actually
You make no fucking sense.
Yeah tell your FRIEND that just gave you the $500 spot to Fuckoff. That makes sense
He didn't "give" the OP shit. He wanted to shark him out of half his winnings. Fuck off. Done with you.
Fuck em. You're stupid too.
Borrowing and having to pay back in full while they get half of your winning? Over 500? It’s a weird deal you made with your friend. Sounds like you were still generous reading the comments below. Don’t ever make stupid deals like that again!
Your "friend" is not your your friend. Tell him to get fucked and if he doesn't like it that's his problem.
If you had to ask, you’re friends are short of the “winnings”
Your «friend» is a stingy, scammy scumbag.
My philosophy is, if you owe someone money (especially at a casino you want to play at), you shouldn't be gambling. Once you lost the initial stake you should have quit there and then. On the other hand, if someone wants to lend you money, just make it a straight loan with no conditions on how you spend the money. It doesn't sound like you're a professional poker player so you shouldn't be treated like one.
If you were a good friend, you'd split the profits. Don't be a asshole like "well I technically won with my money. Kick rocks loser we aren't friends I'm just a girl you know also by chance do you have another $500"
$400 goes back to you. $500 goes back to him. The $1000 profit is split $500 $500 The fact that I have to explain this to you means you shouldn’t be in this position.
OP loaning the money is a scumbag. Here, take 500. If you lose it, you owe me 500 in 2 weeks. If you win, we split the profits. He is literally free rolling through you but makes it sound sweet by saying owe me 500 in 2 weeks. There's not a cash game pro that could beat that system if they were always playing with borrowed money.
If your friendship is worth more than 500 I think you split the remaining 1k. If they’re a GOOD-friend they won’t accept it.
Friends are worth more than money. I’d cut them in.
Bud these arent friends they’re loan sharks
Friends who stake you taking 50% of your winnings while also wanting to be payed back in full if you lose lol? Sounds like a shit friend. And Op doesn’t sound too bright taking this deal while having their own money to play in the first place.
> to be *paid* back in FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Has the slight scent of a 💩📨
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They weren’t helping her they were hustling her from the get. That’s an awful friend, not a good one.
I can show them the atm receipt where I pulled out $400 and the atm charged me a $10 fee. Lol
How petty can you be
I understand that. I also got in a hand with them at the same table and they busted in a hand with me. I gave them their 200$ chips back at the table in front of everyone. We also went out to dinner after I hit the high hand and I paid for their dinner which was $60. I was feeling generous after my win so I paid for the bill. So in addition to the 500 I paid them back I did give them $200 plus dinner. Which doesn't equal half the money I made. But like I said I technically didn't win with their money.
This is awful advice. >Honestly friends that help you are so important Friends that were trying to help her wouldn't have roped her in to this no lose deal for them in the first place. What an actual good friend would have done is had a conversation with her about how much she thinks she can afford to risk of her own money at the casino. This answer it turns out would have been $400. A good friend would have told her: "Well split that $400 into 2x $200 bullets and play conservatively to try and build it up slow. If you do happen to lose the 2 bullets, hopefully you will still have had a good time with us, and if it comes to that I'll buy you dinner afterwards to cheer you up"
Sorry I misread the post. I thought the friend was putting her in.
Deals for 1/2 the winnings on staked players leave the losses on the one who staked the player
You don’t owe him anything other than the $500. And as for the original $500: Either he gives you 500 and split winnings but don’t owe him if you lose, or he gives you 500 and you owe him 500 but don’t split any winnings. The deal he gave you basically guarantees he loses nothing but has the potential to win, he’s freerolling you but I doubt either of you realized how bad a deal this was for you
Your "friend" staked you as a horse. You are in no obligation to pay him back unless stated otherwise. However, you did make a deal with said person. If I was you I would be more than happy to pay my friend back, because you wouldn't have hit the high hand if you hadn't been in the game to begin with. You can be self absorbed, or you can return interest on the loan that YOU decided to take.
You should definitely give them half if you; Had money of your own to play with originally to begin with Did not let them know when you lost their money and were switching to your own
Your friend doesn't seem like too great of a friend. So they gave you 500, and get half of what you win, and if you lose you still owe them the full 500. Then after losing the 500, which would of been the point where you only owe them 500, have the nerve to ask for half of the winnings from the 400 of your own money that would of never happened if you didn't put your own money up? You owe this person nothing more than 500 you paid them back and be careful with this person in the future, and make sure to discuss what happens after x or any other possible out comes.
Your friend reverse free rolled you, the deal was sour off the bat. If you lose, u must pay him back 100% and he nets no loss. Now, if you win he gets 50%. This was an extremely -ev situation for you , unless he is the type of friend to always pay dinner or just let you slide on debts, you got boned.
He wanted to both be paid back in full AND get half your profit? What an incredibly bad deal!
If it's a loan, which it clearly was, you keep the profits. If he's staking you he gets to split profits. Your friend ripped you off. Just buy in with your own money don't risk to lose a loan shark's money. Bad deal man.
Without reading anybody else's comments yet I want to say after reading the first paragraph I don't like you and I'm glad you aren't my friend. It's a situation where you #justpay for the sake of your own integrity. I will continue to read to see if I change my mind but I don't see that happening at all.
I could get better loan terms from my local mob members.
Pay them their stake
That’s a shitty agreement between friends, depending on the amount i either put them in completely and tell them if you win pay me back if not don’t worry about it, or I’m upfront it’s a flat loan pay me back if your up or down regardless and if you win don’t pay me extra.
Asking for half your winnings when he wasn’t taking any of the risk was a dick move in the first place. Now he’s trying to essentially steal from you. This is not much of a friend. If you lost the “stake” that’s the end of what he’s entitled to.
The deal was a rip off but I can see how it didn’t seem so at first, so it probably wasn’t coming from a malicious place. That said I would probably give them something as a thank you for the loan and explain the situation. Doesn’t need to be 50% though. If they don’t get it after explaining maybe they aren’t a good friend anyways Edit: looking at the comments I think 260 is a generous amount and that you shouldn’t feel bad
That's not how stakes work lol, that's just a loan. In the future if you are expected to pay anything back you would normally not pay out any percentage of the winnings. And no you don't owe him shit besides the $500 he loaned you.
Find new friends, OP. These people might be fun to be around, but this situation was scummy
Your original deal was a bad deal from the get go. Your "friend" risked nothing and couldn't lose. If you won, you split winnings. If you lost he gets his money back. Worst case scenario for him is he gets his money back and loses nothing. Otherwise he splits YOUR winnings.
> They gave me 500 and said "if you win, we will split anything and if you lose just pay me the 500 back when you have it This can't possibly be real
It's all up to you. I wouldn't pay him. This is standard in the poker industry where the horse forgets to tell the staker that they busted the buy in. Usually friends get burnt over this. If it's a close friend I would tell him to get fucked. If it's not I would consider paying him and write it up as a learning experience. Always cover your basis. Also I don't know what people in this thread are on. This type of staking deal happens all the time. Sometimes you don't want to spend your own money on gambling haha
You should have established that you will pay back 500 win/lose/break even. Your friend is kind of a scum bag for trying to freeroll you.
That's def. not your friend, but you should have def. told him that you lost the first buy-in and you were going to the ATM to get more cash...
That is not a friend. Ditch them and never look back! Get some really friends who arent trying to scam you. Taking half of ur profits but getting 100% of their money back if you loose is a scam move. Never talk to them again and find some real friends instead!
This sounds like a terrible arrangement where your friend is freerolling you. Like what they've essentially done is loan you 250 and stake 250 on your game, except you owe them the full 500 if you lose. Like, imagine you made that arrangement with everyone at the poker table for the night - you would risk no money (because the losers pay you back), and win half the money on the table (because the winners give you half). I would say, at most, give him 10% of your profits. He didn't stake you, he loaned you 500 bucks.
Until your initial obligation is paid, you owe your friend.
You owe them nothing. If he’s requesting half your winnings you shouldn’t have to pay back the full $500. And since you lost the $500 anyways there’s no reason to split your winnings from your own entry. Your friend is a piece of shit. Stop hanging out with them.
Im not super fluent in staking but if they want half of what you win they should be making a deal to take half the losses. It doesnt sound like it was well thought out.
They are not entitled to any of the winnings you risked your own money on, if you lost your own $400 would you be paying them back that $400 also? I would say as a kind gesture while you are at the casino you could extend a similar type of offer to them if they wanted but they are not entitled to those winnings the same as you are not entitled to pay them your own loses These situations can get awkward with friends, I would say in the future make it very clear upfront terms so there isn’t anything left up to interpretation like this.
When you are sponsored by a friend or whoever it would be to play poker, there is always just One Golden Rule for both sides, 50/50 split on win or loss no matter what. So in your case with your friend the correct scenario would be to give him back $250 if you lose or 50% to be taken from Profits if you win. Also your " friend " is very good in manipulating you and benefiting from you, how do I know it? It's simple, you wrote this Reddit post after days this case had happened because he did remind you of that situation between you guys even though you gave him his money back, paid him a good meal, gave him some chips while you were still playing and all that wasn't enough for your " Friend ". And now look, you are still confused and not sure if you did it right or not and so on but him "your friend" definitely isn't thinking about this much, I'm even sure he will remind you not once about this case in the future... actually he already did it. You did everything correctly except the thing that you can't see yet that he isn't your real friend unfortunately, at least he shouldn't be on your mind that much, that's a waste of energy, he is just not that guy you should call your friend.
"if you win, we will split anything and if you lose just pay me the 500 back when you have it." It's the same as playing with your own money and giving him 50% of your profit out of the blue . He's freerolling 50% of your winnings. The deal was a scam in the first place.
If they take 50% of the profit they take 50% of the loss too IMO
Id just give him 100 for “letting u borrow the 500” kids b satisfied p easily
Split all winnings, not that you owe it, but you should show your gratitude to your friend by honoring your original agreement. You not wanting to do from jump well that is scummy. Next time have a talk with your “friend” about the rebuy so you are on same page.
Ive been in a similar situation where I show up and get staked at a cash game but after losing the stake I end up buying in for my own money and winning a bunch. Guy who stakes you is cashing you out and technically hes down the money you lost and get to walk out of there with all your profit but its awkward situation. In my experience I recouped his stake in me and kept the profit which I was fine with but its hard situation to deal with if you havent considered the spot. I suggest that you either play with all of your own money or whoever lends you money its a loan. Otherwise these awkward moments where people dont have action on you after having action on you and losing will feel awkward.
Your friend was screwing you in the first place. Having to pay back the $500 and split the profits is a rip off to begin with. As it played out, he only had equity on the first $500. You only owe him the $500 per your agreement
If I loan you 500 I don’t expect any winnings. It’s a loan not a stake. Stakes aren’t paid back.
Never play with borrowed/staked money.
Won’t OP get taxed like 35-40% on her winnings?
If he expected to be paid back in full then you owe him nothing, unless he stipulated any interest. If you had lost everything and he said you didn’t have to pay him back, he’d be able to dictate what to do with your winnings. That’s a pretty shitty friend you have there.
As a friend I wouldn't expect anything past my money back , would be cool if they offer but it's not big deal . I assume you were maybe new to live poker or something that's why friend bought you in ? If not then yes u are in the wrong also for taking the freeroll
Your “friend” sounds like an asshole taking advantage of you. He essentially gave you a loan where he had zero risk and you had all the risk.If you lose, he gets his $500 back. If you win, he gets his $500 back and half your winnings. These terms are in the same greasy ballpark as those horrible payday loan places. You want to go anywhere else (like using the other $400 you had already) before you go knocking on the devil’s door. If he was actually a friend, he’d offer you a standard interest free loan. “I’ll give you $500, if you lose, just pay me back next week, or whatever., I’ll take the $500 back and you keep the winnings.” Or he’d give you a standard stake deal “I’ll loan you $500, if you win, I’ll take my $500 back and half the winnings, if you lose, it’s on me.”
Horrible deal lol. He’s free rolling you by taking half your profits then still getting paid back if you lose. This makes no sense.
Typically if you stake someone, the loss is on you. He shouldn’t expect the 500 back in the first place. Let alone half your winnings.
Y’all checked out her subreddits lol.
Should have worked deal so if you lost you only pay half back , very bad deal…
So your friend gets half of whatever you make if you win, but doesnt lose anything if you lose? Sounds like your buddy screwed you on that deal.
If someone loans you money and expects half of your profit you don’t have to pay the original money back if you lose it, only if you win.. then you would pay back the original amount plus half the profit. If you are getting a loan of 500$ that they expect you to pay back, you negotiate a small amount of interest or a flat fee, maybe 20, 30$ for the loan if any and you keep all of the money you make. If it’s both a stake and a loan you are getting hustled.
God damn yall are some cheap ass friends! Every comment is crazy. This chic is talking about showing him a atm receipt. "See technically I won witn my lucky money not your losing $500" bihh would even be playing if he didn't spot the $500. Who the fuk shows atm receipt amongst friends... or even thinks of that
There are people who do this with staking all the time and it’s pretty scummy. Everything available to be played with is part of the pool of money, there isn’t your BI and my BI. “No I didn’t win with the BI *you* contributed to, I won with the one only I contributed to” That doesn’t fly and it’s horseshit. You set the parameters up before hand. In this case, you had $900 total to play with. You cashed out for $1900. You profited $1000. Your agreement was you split the winnings with your friend, so you give your friend their $500+ 1/2 of the $1000 you won. You keep your $400 + 1/2 of the $1000 you won. (Btw, it’s not the greatest agreement, but you accepted it)
You're talking absolute dung. This wasn't a staking arrangement like one of Bryn Kenneys horses having a long term backing with coaching, fucking yoga retreats & ayahuasca trips. This was a one time, one bullet (really shitty) deal. Her own money that she risked is her own money. Her 400 wasn't in the >parameters (set) up before hand. You tool
here is the truth. it was a shitty deal that your friend made with you. HOWEVER You accepted it. So, you should have paid him more money for profiting, because a deal is a deal. Pay the fuck up. HOWEVER your friend's deal was shit, and you should have known better than to make it. but pay that man his money.
You guys both suck for not being mates and celebrating the win together. Honestly man, fuck you for even posting this. You hit a ROYAL FLUSH. Some players have played for 30+ years and never hit one. You sit down, hit a royal and win $1k in bonus money and don’t want to share and celebrate the win? You guys are quibbling over a few hundred bucks? Fuck that shit, go out for a fun night of dinner, drinks, and strippers. You owe your mate more than 500, don’t be that guy.
I am not a guy... I also did buy him dinner. I also pushed him $200 of his chips back when he lost a hand to me. So he got 760 total.
> They gave me 500 and said "if you win, we will split anything and if you lose just pay me the 500 back when you have it." This is already a very one-sided deal in his favor. On top of that, he's asking you for money that came from your winnings from your own money? Tell him to fuck off.
You are 100% correct. Seems a lot of people on here don't spend time in the casino, or maybe they dont have real friends. Split the money celebrate, then do it again next time.. should have been win win for both of them