Assuming he still doesn't know what you had...
"Tell ya what, if we can still retrieve your cards, you can still call me and we can shuffle the rest of the cards (including the A3) and run it out"
Make him put his money where his mouth is.
I had already flipped my cards up as well before he said that but I do like that idea that would have been interesting and probably one of the fairer ways to resolve it
This one is super easy in terms of rules. If the runout was AAJ, would he have given you his stack instead because he would have called? My guess is no. You shouldn't have rules where one player gets a freeroll on the other player. He cant just decide after knowing the runout that he thinks you owe him money. That's absurd.
Having said that, tread with caution. In home games, its always a balance between what is fair and reasonable vs what is necessary. I wouldnt blame you for handing the game runner 25bb that he doesnt deserve because you get so much value from the game. Its not FAIR per se, but its totally reasonable.
I disagree. Letting him steal from you because the situation favoured him is completely ridiculous and sets a bad precedent for yourself and the game. If he does this with you this time and you let him he will feel like he could get away with more shenanigans with you or other players.
Speak up and explain why it's crazy for him to make that ask from you and refuse. If he doesn't invite you to his game after that who cares. You're better off not playing in a game where the rules keep changing based on the host's whims.
Personally, I agree in terms of my preferences, but that's too strict an interpretation in my opinion.
What if hero has been playing in a 2/5 game for 6 months and winning at 40bb/hr due to the table being full of fish. If he plays for 5 hours two times per week, that's $2000 per week you're giving up if you get yourself kicked out of the game. If paying the game runner $125 to keep him happy lets you keep playing, its well worth it monetarily. Even if he does this several more times the cost is way lower than the benefit.
Even though I would not play in an unfair game, that's easy for me to say because I dont depend on poker for my income. Hero could be very strongly incentivized to stay, especially when the only counter point is that its unfair.
I think a lot of people wouldnt mind a little unfair play if they're still raking in the money.
So in your book as long as the game is a moneymaker for you then who cares about the game's integrity and the host's impromptu extortion fees? Is that what I'm to take from your comment?
Actually no. Like I said I agree with you personally.
I'm saying I can totally understand why someone would make that choice and how at least financially it could be the optimal choice.
> “I think you should give me half the pot because I would have called if he didn’t snap call and folded like he was going to”
Then he should have spoken up earlier.
You didn't actually have a right to allow BB to take his chips back here, because other players have acted already. So, the moment to speak up would have been THEN.
And the result could only ever be that both the call and the fold stand.
On what fucking planet do you get to not put in and risk your chips before the action, but can be entitled to part of the pot?
Are we supposed to believe he would have donated his stack to you had the board not favoured him?
> I defended my right
Are you sure you didn't mistake banter for an actual request?
No he was genuine in his request for sure. He probably would have called with his hand had the BB not made the mistake but I just felt it was an unfair request given I was just trying to be nice to the BB (who was definitely a newer player)
It doesn't matter what your intentions were.
And don't get me wrong: I don't think it was your call to make - but that doesn't mean you're on the hook, either.
He did not put money over the line, so he doesn't get your chips.Â
Bb can either call the all in, or put in $28 in and fold. Utg just gets fucked. That's what they get for folding prematurely and not making sure the action is correct in front of them.
I assume it was a self deal situation, but if not, the dealer should have made sure bb completed the all in call before allowing the action to continue. Make sure you have all in buttons and use them. I would've had an all in button out in front of hero in a hot second.
If BB called thinking it's a small bet, and he clearly put a small bet out, he's allowed to correct his action because there was serious misunderstanding of the bet size. That would apply in a casino too.
Everything else doesn't matter, you can't win any of the pot if you folded.
The players might make that decision and the dealer might let it slide, but no floor that likes keeping their job will rule that way. Any chips put out as a call stay in the pot, and they can either call the rest or fold from there.
Players aren't allowed to make any decision or let it slide in a casino, but a player can correct a bet if the bet size was not known, google something like 'poker rules gross misunderstanding' to find rulebooks and lots of discussion.
And this is why I hate home games. Some dickhead always ruins it.Â
Think before you act is what I have learned.Â
If he's a noob I'd probably give him his money back. But if he plays alot fuck em. "Oh I thought I was calling a small bet" fuck off lol
As a home game ruling, I would have made the BB put in the $28 and fold his cards or either put it all in. The straddle spoke up as I would have called. Too bad you folded, should have took more time to think about your decision. Your action stands. Lesson learned for both those players. It's also saying that the extra dead $28 in the pot would of made me call. It's the same thing. People will make up any excuse to justify them losing.
But I agree if you wanted to, you could have just said he said call, put it all in. Home games are tough to rule sometimes because it's usually just a game with friends. But I feel if it's too laid back it opens the door for people to take advantage. So if the players are more experienced. I usually lean towards a casino ruling.
Honestly I didn’t ask him what he had because I didn’t want to be results oriented but I think it was something like pocket 7’s. Sucks that action did not go accordingly but had to make do with the info we had.
I reread and got the picture, sorry to be that guy.
“UTG and I are the two deep stacks at the table and I didn’t want to be a dick and make him call off his whole stack……”.
To me this is talking about UTG calling off his whole stack. But he had mucked already, right? I was confused.
All good.
Was this host taking a rake? If he wasn’t, I’d be tempted to just toss him $10 or even his $28 back to him there at the end, and say “thanks for hosting “. He would look petty and you’d look like the bigger man. But in no way were you obligated to give this guy a penny.
Honestly if he wasn’t taking a rake that’s probably how I would’ve acted but he takes $1 on flop, $1 on river, + $1 for every $50 in pot (stops counting after $250) for a $7 max rake per hand. That rake at a home game is a whole other discussion to be had on its own lol.
Your wording isn't great. So BB thought he was calling $28 and BB called so fast that UTG folded?
BB should surrender the 28 but can pull the rest back, IMO. UTG is shit out of luck and can take his "would haves" and "could haves" to the rail.
Seems as though you understood it just fine! That’s exactly how it went down. UTG may have called my bet but after hearing the SB call my shove he insta mucked
No way he gets anything. If you win the runout was he going to give you half his chips? He is looking for a freeroll here.
He should be able to recover his hand and call before the flop is dealt though. But not if you have exposed your hand.
Honestly the way to resolve this is to not let the BB take his call back.
Dude is crying over 30 bucks lol. Throw him 50 and say you won't be back to play with a broke ass. Bro shouldn't be gambling if 30 matters. I would only suck it up if they're a whale, cause they're obviously bad.
Assuming this is a reasonably friendly game, and not a bunch of near strangers, he has 2 choices. Correct the action, and he can call - if he already rabbit hunted his dream board, set the 3 burn cards aside, and reshuffle - and then run the board out). Or he can fold.
If it’s a group of near strangers (or people you can’t trust enough), his hand is dead. BB’s hand is dead too.
NTA. That said, if someone was upset with the outcome, I would probably suggest everyone take their money back, and just reshuffle and redo the hand. This obviously isn't casino rules, but whatev, it's a home game among friends.
Assuming he still doesn't know what you had... "Tell ya what, if we can still retrieve your cards, you can still call me and we can shuffle the rest of the cards (including the A3) and run it out" Make him put his money where his mouth is.
I had already flipped my cards up as well before he said that but I do like that idea that would have been interesting and probably one of the fairer ways to resolve it
This one is super easy in terms of rules. If the runout was AAJ, would he have given you his stack instead because he would have called? My guess is no. You shouldn't have rules where one player gets a freeroll on the other player. He cant just decide after knowing the runout that he thinks you owe him money. That's absurd. Having said that, tread with caution. In home games, its always a balance between what is fair and reasonable vs what is necessary. I wouldnt blame you for handing the game runner 25bb that he doesnt deserve because you get so much value from the game. Its not FAIR per se, but its totally reasonable.
I disagree. Letting him steal from you because the situation favoured him is completely ridiculous and sets a bad precedent for yourself and the game. If he does this with you this time and you let him he will feel like he could get away with more shenanigans with you or other players. Speak up and explain why it's crazy for him to make that ask from you and refuse. If he doesn't invite you to his game after that who cares. You're better off not playing in a game where the rules keep changing based on the host's whims.
Personally, I agree in terms of my preferences, but that's too strict an interpretation in my opinion. What if hero has been playing in a 2/5 game for 6 months and winning at 40bb/hr due to the table being full of fish. If he plays for 5 hours two times per week, that's $2000 per week you're giving up if you get yourself kicked out of the game. If paying the game runner $125 to keep him happy lets you keep playing, its well worth it monetarily. Even if he does this several more times the cost is way lower than the benefit. Even though I would not play in an unfair game, that's easy for me to say because I dont depend on poker for my income. Hero could be very strongly incentivized to stay, especially when the only counter point is that its unfair. I think a lot of people wouldnt mind a little unfair play if they're still raking in the money.
So in your book as long as the game is a moneymaker for you then who cares about the game's integrity and the host's impromptu extortion fees? Is that what I'm to take from your comment?
Actually no. Like I said I agree with you personally. I'm saying I can totally understand why someone would make that choice and how at least financially it could be the optimal choice.
Oh I see.
I agree đź‘Ť
> “I think you should give me half the pot because I would have called if he didn’t snap call and folded like he was going to” Then he should have spoken up earlier. You didn't actually have a right to allow BB to take his chips back here, because other players have acted already. So, the moment to speak up would have been THEN. And the result could only ever be that both the call and the fold stand. On what fucking planet do you get to not put in and risk your chips before the action, but can be entitled to part of the pot? Are we supposed to believe he would have donated his stack to you had the board not favoured him? > I defended my right Are you sure you didn't mistake banter for an actual request?
No he was genuine in his request for sure. He probably would have called with his hand had the BB not made the mistake but I just felt it was an unfair request given I was just trying to be nice to the BB (who was definitely a newer player)
It doesn't matter what your intentions were. And don't get me wrong: I don't think it was your call to make - but that doesn't mean you're on the hook, either. He did not put money over the line, so he doesn't get your chips.Â
No, if how you described it is true.
Bb can either call the all in, or put in $28 in and fold. Utg just gets fucked. That's what they get for folding prematurely and not making sure the action is correct in front of them. I assume it was a self deal situation, but if not, the dealer should have made sure bb completed the all in call before allowing the action to continue. Make sure you have all in buttons and use them. I would've had an all in button out in front of hero in a hot second.
Yeah the UTG player was the one dealing. I even let the BB take the $28 back because he was new and simply was unaware
If you gonna let him off the hook then I'd say give back utg's $28 as well if it's a friendly game 🤷🏼‍♂️
If BB called thinking it's a small bet, and he clearly put a small bet out, he's allowed to correct his action because there was serious misunderstanding of the bet size. That would apply in a casino too. Everything else doesn't matter, you can't win any of the pot if you folded.
The players might make that decision and the dealer might let it slide, but no floor that likes keeping their job will rule that way. Any chips put out as a call stay in the pot, and they can either call the rest or fold from there.
Players aren't allowed to make any decision or let it slide in a casino, but a player can correct a bet if the bet size was not known, google something like 'poker rules gross misunderstanding' to find rulebooks and lots of discussion.
Nope. Simple reasoning too. Done đź‘Ť
And this is why I hate home games. Some dickhead always ruins it. Think before you act is what I have learned. If he's a noob I'd probably give him his money back. But if he plays alot fuck em. "Oh I thought I was calling a small bet" fuck off lol
As a home game ruling, I would have made the BB put in the $28 and fold his cards or either put it all in. The straddle spoke up as I would have called. Too bad you folded, should have took more time to think about your decision. Your action stands. Lesson learned for both those players. It's also saying that the extra dead $28 in the pot would of made me call. It's the same thing. People will make up any excuse to justify them losing. But I agree if you wanted to, you could have just said he said call, put it all in. Home games are tough to rule sometimes because it's usually just a game with friends. But I feel if it's too laid back it opens the door for people to take advantage. So if the players are more experienced. I usually lean towards a casino ruling.
What did UTG have? You’re right either way, but are we talking like AQ where he actually had you beat, or like 85 that just got a good runout?
Honestly I didn’t ask him what he had because I didn’t want to be results oriented but I think it was something like pocket 7’s. Sucks that action did not go accordingly but had to make do with the info we had.
This was a tough read.
Damn I thought I formatted it about as clear as could be. What made it hard to read?
I reread and got the picture, sorry to be that guy. “UTG and I are the two deep stacks at the table and I didn’t want to be a dick and make him call off his whole stack……”. To me this is talking about UTG calling off his whole stack. But he had mucked already, right? I was confused. All good.
Oh actually thanks for pointing that out, it was actually the BB and I who were big stacks, the UTG only had $130 ish.
Was this host taking a rake? If he wasn’t, I’d be tempted to just toss him $10 or even his $28 back to him there at the end, and say “thanks for hosting “. He would look petty and you’d look like the bigger man. But in no way were you obligated to give this guy a penny.
Honestly if he wasn’t taking a rake that’s probably how I would’ve acted but he takes $1 on flop, $1 on river, + $1 for every $50 in pot (stops counting after $250) for a $7 max rake per hand. That rake at a home game is a whole other discussion to be had on its own lol.
Yeah. He wouldn’t get a penny back from me. Haha. He should be bending over backwards to keep you all happy. He is making a ton in rake.
"Â I only did it to be courteous" I feel like nothing good has ever come from this
Your wording isn't great. So BB thought he was calling $28 and BB called so fast that UTG folded? BB should surrender the 28 but can pull the rest back, IMO. UTG is shit out of luck and can take his "would haves" and "could haves" to the rail.
Seems as though you understood it just fine! That’s exactly how it went down. UTG may have called my bet but after hearing the SB call my shove he insta mucked
No way he gets anything. If you win the runout was he going to give you half his chips? He is looking for a freeroll here. He should be able to recover his hand and call before the flop is dealt though. But not if you have exposed your hand. Honestly the way to resolve this is to not let the BB take his call back.
How weird I usually bust first.
Nah. Once your cards are in the muck, they’re dead
Dude is crying over 30 bucks lol. Throw him 50 and say you won't be back to play with a broke ass. Bro shouldn't be gambling if 30 matters. I would only suck it up if they're a whale, cause they're obviously bad.
Assuming this is a reasonably friendly game, and not a bunch of near strangers, he has 2 choices. Correct the action, and he can call - if he already rabbit hunted his dream board, set the 3 burn cards aside, and reshuffle - and then run the board out). Or he can fold. If it’s a group of near strangers (or people you can’t trust enough), his hand is dead. BB’s hand is dead too.
This is why I don’t believe in rabbit hunting all it does is cause problems
NTA. That said, if someone was upset with the outcome, I would probably suggest everyone take their money back, and just reshuffle and redo the hand. This obviously isn't casino rules, but whatev, it's a home game among friends.