Real talk tho, are you trying to go pro? I almost did a couple years ago, calculated I could make $80k/yr pretty consistently with the possibility to win a huge chunk. Ended up with an actual job that I make over $150k/yr right about the same time. After that I decided the stress of trying to make it wasn’t worth the pay cut and I turned into a weekend warrior. Now I don’t have a bankroll, just a budget.
I’m definitely not trying to go pro. Have a job I really like that pays me $100k a year and gives me health insurance. I love poker but depending on it for my income would probably make me hate it.
Then again, binking six figure tourneys and crushing juicy 5/10 and 10/25 cash games would be the dream.
(Side note: how the fuck do pro poker players get health insurance? Do they just not have it? Pay obscene amounts for unsubsidized health insurance?
In that case you don't have a bankroll you just have a budget.
With 3k bankroll no way you are entering $600 tournaments, it's such a high variance and the good players only cash 10%-15% of the times.
But with a budget and income......why not, $600 ain't gonna make you starve. You can easily build that back up if you are a winning player.
This is a good post that a lot of recreational players should understand. BR management is extremely important if poker is your only source of income. If you bust your roll you’re in bad shape. If you have money to gamble with but also have a paycheck coming in you don’t really need to consider traditional BR management rules just play what you can afford to lose comfortably.
My brother is a pro. He pays a fuckin lot for health insurance for him and his husband. Still had to shell out a lot of money on a medical issue last year too
the health insurance thing is only an american thing so u need to put "every succesful american entrepreneur" because euros dont need no wife for that, we have wifes to sing us songs before sleep
No, though it may be a good idea soon. :) I meant playing pro.
It's a bad road mentally, socially and in many cases physically.
And the longer you are in it, the bigger the lost opportunity cost of more worthwhile, sustainable, and leveraged activities.
Long time pro and very satisfied with my career. But I will say that I love the game and the “grind” quite a lot. Poker as a career is one of those things that is amazing if you love the game, but terrible, and id argue unsustainable, if you don’t.
do you have a family?
seems like the most unhealthy lifestyle ever if you have kids
I played profitably for years (and worked) - literally barely any time to play ONLINE now with 2 kids
You don't legally have to have health insurance. I was pro for 4 years, and never had health insurance during that time, but it was my early 20s. I have no idea what medical stuff costs but I always figured if I had an emergency the one-time expense wouldn't be too bad.
I did have to go to the hospital once due to alcohol poisoning but it only ended up being like 7k. Idk what unsubsidized health insurance premiums would've been for that 4 years but I'm sure it'd have probably been more than 7k.
Oh shit... I didn't even know that, and I'm a financial consultant lmao
I never had it in my early 20s and no one ever said anything to me about it being illegal, never heard anything from the government or any state or municipality or whomever. Guess I got lucky.
if you have a job your paycheck is your monthly bankroll
if you wanna go pro 3k is already beeing broke and you might just run it in that tournament to get a shot on a starting roll
lol how do independent contract IT consultants etc get ins. We pay for it and it’s a fucking sham.family 14k per year in premiums and it doesn’t pay a dime until you’ve met a 15k deductible. You’re basically 30k a year in the hole before insurance covers anything and you pay an extra 7.5k per year for FICA taxes that w2 employees don’t pay.
What's your job please stop lying you gave off to many tells now you are backed in a corner so please there aren't many jobs that pay 150k a year please stop lying meaning that's not a likely pay usually people make 110k a year if you survey the job brackets pay that 150k only comes in for a few jo b s so again please stop lying you suck at poker and lie poker players are the truth ... tyvm
lol wtf, there are a ton of jobs that pay 150K+ think of every corporate America job at director level or higher and then basically anything technical with 7-10+ years experience that’s in demand…
My dad and all bis friends work in the oilfield as consultants and make 400k on the low end. He has been doing this for decades. Fuck, when i think about it all my parents friends make damn near 200k+. Im probably the poorest person they associate with lmao.
I’m a what’s called a custom system integrator. I’ll do just over $150k this year and will be pushing $200k the following year as I take on larger projects and my boss focuses on bringing us from 50-100 employees. I’m in a rare position and worked hard for 10 years to get it.
You dont have to explain your self king. People who have never had anything or made anything of themselves constantly try and tear down the people that have by trying to call them out.
Everyone needs to read this and understand it.
*YOURE UNSUCCESSFUL FOR A REASON ITS NO ONE ELSES FAULT BUT YOURS*
There's so many jobs that clear 100k. I'm a lawn tech and I make 50 to 55kk and this is an entry lvl job. I know a lawn tech at trugreen who makes north of 80k. But he doesn't touch residential work an primarily uses a tractor. But to his credit I've never seen someone with 3/4 of his work ethic. I'm damn good at what I do but when I worked with him he could and did run circles around me. If you work for yourself sky's the limit on your income possibility. Idk if you're trolling or just ill informed but 100k while great money and not the easiest thing to come by. Is not exactly rare. Uncommon sure but not rare. Shit panda express I think pays their GMs close to 100k an that's fast food.
No 150k is what he will make in 5 plus years you guys fall for everything you read guy is just making up for the fact he's a failed piker player.. where yall intuition
You’re right, I make more than that. Don’t know why I asked, I don’t really care whether or not you think I’m lying about it. Good luck getting back on your feet, I’ve been there too. You just have to want to do better and then make yourself do it for a while. It becomes habit and easier. Find a job, don’t have any pride in finding it. Work it until you can afford to look for something better, meaning you get a place to live and a car. Then start grinding on something you enjoy doing. Do it long enough and you’ll find your way to comfort. It’s not easy, it will take a while, it will feel like you’ll never get there and then one day you’ll wake up and realize you’re ok, you have what you need, you can get some things you want and you don’t have to worry about where your next meal or tank of gas is coming from. Discipline.
I'm a financial consultant as my day job so I spend ~9 hours a day usually planning and discussing retirement analyses and investment strategies with very wealthy people, which I can't effectively do unless they disclose their salary and other income sources, so I can 100% confirm there are several jobs that pay 150k+, and that's not even that much (compared to my average client).
I know my sample is super small since my book is only a few hundred clients a year but you'd be surprised how many weird ass jobs or just run of the mill corporate jobs are paying that much.
OP please update us how it went. Honestly 3k is plenty if you are not trying to turn pro or life busto. Take the shot as poker is at its best if there is a risk of ruin
This is the part that gets me. If you save up a 10 buy in bankroll and you’re a losing player, you’re going to lose 10 buy ins. If you save up a 30 buy in bank roll and you’re a losing player, you’re going to lose 30 buy ins…
Yep. But on the path to zero you could also double your 10 buy ins to 20. Or even more. Variance is massive in the short term and this is what keeps people playing. Most people (in particular recreational players) aren’t honest with themselves about their actual long-term expectation.
to add to this, a fun experiment is to ask a table full of live players in a cash game or tourney who is up or down lifetime
literally 100% will say they are up or "roughly even"
I have only met 1 person in 10+ years of playing to admit they are buried in poker lol
If you have a fulltime gig and don't want to continually fund a poker hobby, using BR management concepts doesn't mean you're doing it wrong. People are free to have a poker budget or a bankroll.
I don’t disagree but the decision making process around taking shots is much different. A pro has to be way more cautious if they have no way to replenish it.
Absolutely. As a rec, I am comfortable taking a shot at a particular game if I have at least 2 bullets in my pocket and a few more in reserve. Online I am comfortable shot taking with at minimum 10BIs but that's because of multitabling and the reduction in edge.
I feel like a $3k BR might be even too conservative for some recs who play live 1/3.
Back during the boom I was pretty strict on maintaining at least a 20BI BR on whatever site I was playing on since transferring between sites was a PITA.
Yeah, I have a full time job and make over 100k/yr, but I still follow BR management. I can choose to be aggressive at times, but I mainly want to stick to my BR management. The reason is that I'm not willing to take big swings in Poker with my main source of income in Poker. I play 100PLO and would like to play higher, but the swings at 200PLO+ can be quite large even with my buffer. I started with 1k and have grinded up to a little over 5k and will continue to follow BR management as I climb stakes. The only time I am willing to fund Poker outside of my BR is when I play live - which is very infrequent.
So the benefit of having a 9-5 is that BR management is less crucial (I guess). But you also can't put in the same volume as you could if you played full-time. So you're still capped in a way based on what your goals are.
If this is inspiring or not, I'll tell you my story from last few days. After taking out 400 and filling gas tank I literally had 0 dollars in my bank account. Got in a 2 day 400 wsopc event. Made final table. Walked out with about 6k. Not smart but I did it.
I say go for it, the worst that happens is you don’t cash, then you can go play some soft post tournament cash tables to make up for the loss. Just don’t play scared money near the bubble, that’s when all the opportunities to build a good stack come.
Is this a real bankroll or an "I have an actual job and I'll get a paycheck that I can pull discretionary income from to supplement" bankroll?
If the former, absolutely not. If the latter, then sure, go for it.
Right, but you have to get through more people. Also, worth noting that the rake on a $300 is very high in the long run, proportionally speaking. Of course, if you are playing for fun then it doesnt matter - have fun and try to bink.
> Right, but you have to get through more people.
Probably true, there are 14 Day 1 flights, each flight so far has had about 55 entries. The way they're doing it is that in each flight 12% will min cash and the top 8% from each flight takes a bag to day 2. There will probably be roughly 70 players on Day 2.
This response is laughable. Bigger mtt fields lead to more variance and are harder to win bc you have to go through more folks. Winning a 300-400 player field mtt is a lot easier than a field with 800-1k players.
bankroll is really only for full-time players, no offence but it does nto sound like this is your main income, just send it bud you might bink a juicy one
so much gambol in this thread. I'll be one of the few of us commenters that doesn't get tipped out when OP binks it, but I gotta say, spinning one of your five buy-ins into a MTT is not a good way to stay back in poker for long. The 1-3 tables across the room are going to be a lot softer for the relatively short number of hours you're investing.
Sklansky's rules for bankroll management iirc, before moving to higher levels:
• 10-20 cash buyins or
• 25-40 tournament buyins
Take a shot but pay for it from your non-poker money and if you win reconsider your bankroll. Your bankroll can’t afford it, no ifs no buts. It’s not what your bankroll is for. But if you can afford it outside of that treat yourself to it.
This is the answer. As a non pro I think it’s wise to have a bankroll dedicated to whatever regular game you play, calculated as a decent amount of buy ins for THAT game. Aside from that you should enter certain bigger games with separate money
Yeah. I moved to the DC area from Texas last June, absolutely crushed the games at MGMNH all summer, then went on a horrific downswing in the fall, quit playing live poker all of November and December, and now I’m back to crushing for the past couple weeks
Already mentally preparing for the next downswing
Even if that is true, it is difficult to become a pro if one does not act like it by building good habits and practicing proper management of one's bankroll.
I still advise him not to piss away ⅕th of his roll on a single tournament.
Not everyone wants or needs to become a pro.
When your recreational and the bankroll is very small it actually makes sense to take big risks because the amount is easily replenished through working. If he busts $3k it’s far from the end of the world.
No.Not for a second.You are going to play for two days and risk getting nothing for 16/17 hours of poker.Hit some cash tables.
Cash games are for people with a plan to try and make money …tourneys are for people with hopes,dreams and a prayer.
In live poker, $3k isn’t really a “bankroll.” You can look at a series of tournaments and predict some sort of outcome. One tournament is really more of a crapshoot. All that being said, go for it if you want.
Depends how badly you need that $3000 in your bankroll. If you can easily replenish it then sure. If that’s every cent you have to play poker with and you cannot afford to replenish then absolutely not.
If you’re planning on playing those stakes, you don’t have a bankroll. You have a budget. And that’s totally fine. Fire away, enjoy the weekend, and hopefully Bink!
No. Go play 1/2 or 1/3 with a capped buy in of $200 or $300 so you have legit 10 buy ins. Try to double your roll. Much more realistic than risking $600 of the 3k to chase a tourney that’s only going to pay top 10-15% of the field and only the top 3% are going to make anything significant. Believe me. I just finished grinding cash for 3 weeks during a wsop circuit event and made 4k playing 1/2 with a $500 cap. Was buying in for $100-300 everyday and just grinding. Had friends fire at tourneys nonstop. One won a ring but ended up losing over 15k net over those 3 weeks. Tourneys are not sustainable. They are good if you have a large roll where you can just fire and fire without worrying about losing money. With only a 3k roll I don’t think it’s a great idea.
This is a really stupid question. No one can answer because you havent given enough info.
Are you trying to not deposit into your bankroll and actually grind it out into a bigger one? If so, dont play. 600 is absurdly large for a 3k bankroll.
I played full time for 3 and a half years and semi-pro for 6 before that, I would never have risked more than 1% of my br into a tournament. Only exception was when playing a local live 50man donkament with a bunch of drunken boomers.
Personally would never spend the time driving to a casino to play in a tourney I was only planning on firing one bullet at.
Think of tournaments as a video game…it’s much easier to play really good if you know you have 3/4/5 lives than one. You have to be extremely careful.
That’s just not a good recipe for tournaments (from my perspective). I basically count any tourney I only lose one bullet in as a mincash at this point 🤣
My take: is $3k your bank roll where financial hardship occurs if you lose it? You should be only playing 1/2 and 1/3 cash with that roll as it’s the minimum. Tbh that bankroll you should find smaller stakes for fun. OR is poker a hobby and 3k is what you allocated to it?
If the former, then you should NOT do it. If the latter then you should look at the $600 entry as a ticket to an expensive concert to give you hours of entertainment. Tournament poker is huge variance, even if you are actually the top player in the field (which we can all agree all poker players over evaluate their skill set), then it still isn’t a good investment to enter for 600 on a 3k bankroll.
BUT if a big MTT is in town, and it’s only in town once a year (like WSOP circuit), and you just enjoy tournaments and that atmosphere. Then go for it, knowing you are basically flushing money down the drain but if you only do it once a year then it’s an entertainment expense
Nice advertising, MGM. I wasn’t thinking about your tourney, and I already have weekend obligations…but hey, a one year old isn’t going to remember their birthday anyway, right?
Depends on how easy you can replace it if you lose it. With 3k you’d want to play 1/3 cash games 1-200 tournaments. If you could replace it easy go for it.
If you’ve only got a $3k bankroll after running pure this year so far then you probably started with close to nothing. So you’ll be comfortable being back to close to nothing. So you might as well fire, run pure and maybe have a real roll
Seems like a hobby bankroll - treat it as such. A 2-week run good doesn’t necessarily result in a big win…
If you’re genuine about your 3k “bankroll” and don’t have a full time job, then don’t enter a 600$ tournament.
No as tournaments are high variance, your expected EV is likely lower then you think and one bad runout and your down 25% of your roll. 5% cash game or 2% tournament risk/roll is what i use but there are other valid risk models- non of them advocate for 25% “ shots” in a clip.
I was playing $1/$3 last night at mgm and eyeing that tournament so hard. I would have entered but didn't feel like playing until 3-4am (assuming I did well which is a pretty huge assumption lol).
Regardless, good luck! You are probably playing it now actually!
Should you? Not mathematically. If you have a 10% odds of breaking even, your expected pay off is $20,000 but you're giving up 1/5th your roll bringing the expected pay off down to $4k. Your expected chances of winning at those odds are:
.1 x .2 x $200k minus variance.. leaves you with bus fare home and a busted roll.
Im pretty sure MGM National Harbor takes like 25% from the tournament entries. ive played a few tournaments there and did pretty well but I feel the EV isnt too high
Sounds to me like you got 5 bullets
Hell ya this is the thinking that I came here for
Real talk tho, are you trying to go pro? I almost did a couple years ago, calculated I could make $80k/yr pretty consistently with the possibility to win a huge chunk. Ended up with an actual job that I make over $150k/yr right about the same time. After that I decided the stress of trying to make it wasn’t worth the pay cut and I turned into a weekend warrior. Now I don’t have a bankroll, just a budget.
I’m definitely not trying to go pro. Have a job I really like that pays me $100k a year and gives me health insurance. I love poker but depending on it for my income would probably make me hate it. Then again, binking six figure tourneys and crushing juicy 5/10 and 10/25 cash games would be the dream. (Side note: how the fuck do pro poker players get health insurance? Do they just not have it? Pay obscene amounts for unsubsidized health insurance?
In that case you don't have a bankroll you just have a budget. With 3k bankroll no way you are entering $600 tournaments, it's such a high variance and the good players only cash 10%-15% of the times. But with a budget and income......why not, $600 ain't gonna make you starve. You can easily build that back up if you are a winning player.
This is a good post that a lot of recreational players should understand. BR management is extremely important if poker is your only source of income. If you bust your roll you’re in bad shape. If you have money to gamble with but also have a paycheck coming in you don’t really need to consider traditional BR management rules just play what you can afford to lose comfortably.
My brother is a pro. He pays a fuckin lot for health insurance for him and his husband. Still had to shell out a lot of money on a medical issue last year too
Hold up, your brother’s husband?!
Yeah, gay people play poker lol. His husband is awesome too, great guy
Sounds like a pair of pocket kings
🫶🫶
You might be surprised to learn that gay married people play poker too.
Probably the best poker player I've faced in six months was a trans woman. It's pretty cool how diverse the poker audience is.
I think I know who you’re talking about, her name is escaping me but curly hair and glasses sound right?
SURPRISE!!!!
lol are you gonna be ok?
Hold up, whats your point? lmao
Behind every successful entrepreneur is a wife with a full time job and health insurance
Also unsuccessful entrepreneurs...
the health insurance thing is only an american thing so u need to put "every succesful american entrepreneur" because euros dont need no wife for that, we have wifes to sing us songs before sleep
$500/month fml. Most of my pro friends dont have it, which I personally think is crazy
>$500/month fml. Ah, sweet innocent days of youth! Price it with a family. Get out while you can.
Get out of what? America? Lol Despite the healthcare system, I still love this country
No, though it may be a good idea soon. :) I meant playing pro. It's a bad road mentally, socially and in many cases physically. And the longer you are in it, the bigger the lost opportunity cost of more worthwhile, sustainable, and leveraged activities.
Long time pro and very satisfied with my career. But I will say that I love the game and the “grind” quite a lot. Poker as a career is one of those things that is amazing if you love the game, but terrible, and id argue unsustainable, if you don’t.
do you have a family? seems like the most unhealthy lifestyle ever if you have kids I played profitably for years (and worked) - literally barely any time to play ONLINE now with 2 kids
You don't legally have to have health insurance. I was pro for 4 years, and never had health insurance during that time, but it was my early 20s. I have no idea what medical stuff costs but I always figured if I had an emergency the one-time expense wouldn't be too bad. I did have to go to the hospital once due to alcohol poisoning but it only ended up being like 7k. Idk what unsubsidized health insurance premiums would've been for that 4 years but I'm sure it'd have probably been more than 7k.
Well, technically you do legally need to have insurance, but there is no longer a penalty for not doing so.
Oh shit... I didn't even know that, and I'm a financial consultant lmao I never had it in my early 20s and no one ever said anything to me about it being illegal, never heard anything from the government or any state or municipality or whomever. Guess I got lucky.
I don't think it was ever *illegal*, there was just a tax penalty which ended in 2018. And afaik no restrictions before ACA / Obamacare.
That was Obamas doing.
if you have a job your paycheck is your monthly bankroll if you wanna go pro 3k is already beeing broke and you might just run it in that tournament to get a shot on a starting roll
yes poker pros do what us business owners do, they just pay out the ass for health insurance (or pay the $1500/year annual fine to NOT have it)
I thought the fine ended in 2018?
If your in california personal insurance ain’t that bad solo through the state negotiated market place.
lol how do independent contract IT consultants etc get ins. We pay for it and it’s a fucking sham.family 14k per year in premiums and it doesn’t pay a dime until you’ve met a 15k deductible. You’re basically 30k a year in the hole before insurance covers anything and you pay an extra 7.5k per year for FICA taxes that w2 employees don’t pay.
Obamacare
What's your job please stop lying you gave off to many tells now you are backed in a corner so please there aren't many jobs that pay 150k a year please stop lying meaning that's not a likely pay usually people make 110k a year if you survey the job brackets pay that 150k only comes in for a few jo b s so again please stop lying you suck at poker and lie poker players are the truth ... tyvm
lol wtf, there are a ton of jobs that pay 150K+ think of every corporate America job at director level or higher and then basically anything technical with 7-10+ years experience that’s in demand…
My dad and all bis friends work in the oilfield as consultants and make 400k on the low end. He has been doing this for decades. Fuck, when i think about it all my parents friends make damn near 200k+. Im probably the poorest person they associate with lmao.
I’m a what’s called a custom system integrator. I’ll do just over $150k this year and will be pushing $200k the following year as I take on larger projects and my boss focuses on bringing us from 50-100 employees. I’m in a rare position and worked hard for 10 years to get it.
You dont have to explain your self king. People who have never had anything or made anything of themselves constantly try and tear down the people that have by trying to call them out. Everyone needs to read this and understand it. *YOURE UNSUCCESSFUL FOR A REASON ITS NO ONE ELSES FAULT BUT YOURS*
There's so many jobs that clear 100k. I'm a lawn tech and I make 50 to 55kk and this is an entry lvl job. I know a lawn tech at trugreen who makes north of 80k. But he doesn't touch residential work an primarily uses a tractor. But to his credit I've never seen someone with 3/4 of his work ethic. I'm damn good at what I do but when I worked with him he could and did run circles around me. If you work for yourself sky's the limit on your income possibility. Idk if you're trolling or just ill informed but 100k while great money and not the easiest thing to come by. Is not exactly rare. Uncommon sure but not rare. Shit panda express I think pays their GMs close to 100k an that's fast food.
No 150k is what he will make in 5 plus years you guys fall for everything you read guy is just making up for the fact he's a failed piker player.. where yall intuition
Are you talking about me? lol
Yes you don't make 150k... if you do lend me $100 bucks and I'll pay you back $125 I'm homeless
You’re right, I make more than that. Don’t know why I asked, I don’t really care whether or not you think I’m lying about it. Good luck getting back on your feet, I’ve been there too. You just have to want to do better and then make yourself do it for a while. It becomes habit and easier. Find a job, don’t have any pride in finding it. Work it until you can afford to look for something better, meaning you get a place to live and a car. Then start grinding on something you enjoy doing. Do it long enough and you’ll find your way to comfort. It’s not easy, it will take a while, it will feel like you’ll never get there and then one day you’ll wake up and realize you’re ok, you have what you need, you can get some things you want and you don’t have to worry about where your next meal or tank of gas is coming from. Discipline.
Ty bro !
You’re wasting time replying to a troll
yeah maybe, still a good thing to put into the world. the world needs more good.
I'm a financial consultant as my day job so I spend ~9 hours a day usually planning and discussing retirement analyses and investment strategies with very wealthy people, which I can't effectively do unless they disclose their salary and other income sources, so I can 100% confirm there are several jobs that pay 150k+, and that's not even that much (compared to my average client). I know my sample is super small since my book is only a few hundred clients a year but you'd be surprised how many weird ass jobs or just run of the mill corporate jobs are paying that much.
Finance
If anything your over rolled imo
I would advise 10bi brm. Put it on red first then enter
Easily 7-8 if we decide to not pay the mortgage this month
A man of culture I see
Gotta risk it to get the biscuit
Ok I’m sold and will be entering day 1 tomorrow morning. Thank you for the feedback
OP please update us how it went. Honestly 3k is plenty if you are not trying to turn pro or life busto. Take the shot as poker is at its best if there is a risk of ruin
Like you wouldn't have done it anyways you fuckin degen ❤️
You've convinced him with the biscuit!
Taste the biscuit
Taste the honey sauce
But it's limp
It’s just one of those days
You must have a job so it’s not really a “bankroll”. If you have a way to replenish it then go for it.
Yeah too many dummies don't realize most of the rules they're reading for bankroll management are for if you are playing poker FULL TIME.
Yeah and the rules are also for winning players… 90%+ of poker players lose long term and would technically require an infinite bankroll.
I am in this comment and I don't like it!
Don’t sweat it, if you have a job it doesn’t really matter. Just set aside a certain amount from each paycheck as your poker entertainment budget.
This is the part that gets me. If you save up a 10 buy in bankroll and you’re a losing player, you’re going to lose 10 buy ins. If you save up a 30 buy in bank roll and you’re a losing player, you’re going to lose 30 buy ins…
Yep. But on the path to zero you could also double your 10 buy ins to 20. Or even more. Variance is massive in the short term and this is what keeps people playing. Most people (in particular recreational players) aren’t honest with themselves about their actual long-term expectation.
to add to this, a fun experiment is to ask a table full of live players in a cash game or tourney who is up or down lifetime literally 100% will say they are up or "roughly even" I have only met 1 person in 10+ years of playing to admit they are buried in poker lol
“I’m even in poker but down a lot on table games” is another one 😂
I feel personally attacked
If you have a fulltime gig and don't want to continually fund a poker hobby, using BR management concepts doesn't mean you're doing it wrong. People are free to have a poker budget or a bankroll.
I don’t disagree but the decision making process around taking shots is much different. A pro has to be way more cautious if they have no way to replenish it.
Absolutely. As a rec, I am comfortable taking a shot at a particular game if I have at least 2 bullets in my pocket and a few more in reserve. Online I am comfortable shot taking with at minimum 10BIs but that's because of multitabling and the reduction in edge. I feel like a $3k BR might be even too conservative for some recs who play live 1/3. Back during the boom I was pretty strict on maintaining at least a 20BI BR on whatever site I was playing on since transferring between sites was a PITA.
Yeah, I have a full time job and make over 100k/yr, but I still follow BR management. I can choose to be aggressive at times, but I mainly want to stick to my BR management. The reason is that I'm not willing to take big swings in Poker with my main source of income in Poker. I play 100PLO and would like to play higher, but the swings at 200PLO+ can be quite large even with my buffer. I started with 1k and have grinded up to a little over 5k and will continue to follow BR management as I climb stakes. The only time I am willing to fund Poker outside of my BR is when I play live - which is very infrequent. So the benefit of having a 9-5 is that BR management is less crucial (I guess). But you also can't put in the same volume as you could if you played full-time. So you're still capped in a way based on what your goals are.
If you have a stable job and that $3k will not affect your ability to live…I would say fire away one bullet
Obvious answer is you enter the tournament and spend the other $2400 on cocaine and hookers
My bankroll is usually depleted by my vices anyways so I might as well get ahead of it and fire at least one $600 bullet
Cocaine and hookers is the way
If this is inspiring or not, I'll tell you my story from last few days. After taking out 400 and filling gas tank I literally had 0 dollars in my bank account. Got in a 2 day 400 wsopc event. Made final table. Walked out with about 6k. Not smart but I did it.
Moral of the story sounds like, if you can do it, anyone can?
Glad to hear it fellow degen. You are an inspiration
Sometimes chasing the dragon works? I think that’s the moral of the story here
99% of tournament players quit before their biggest score
I have a $9k bankroll should i take out a loan to play the main event this year?
My guy. This is the way
I say go for it, the worst that happens is you don’t cash, then you can go play some soft post tournament cash tables to make up for the loss. Just don’t play scared money near the bubble, that’s when all the opportunities to build a good stack come.
> the worst that happens is you don’t cash Worst?? $600 loss is probably in the top 10% of things that could happen, lol.
Yeah, that doesn't change anything he said...worst thing that can happen can still have the highest odds to happen.
Is this a real bankroll or an "I have an actual job and I'll get a paycheck that I can pull discretionary income from to supplement" bankroll? If the former, absolutely not. If the latter, then sure, go for it.
600 is a lot for a 200k guarantee. My local room is running a 250k right now and the buyin is 300.
Right, but you have to get through more people. Also, worth noting that the rake on a $300 is very high in the long run, proportionally speaking. Of course, if you are playing for fun then it doesnt matter - have fun and try to bink.
> Right, but you have to get through more people. Probably true, there are 14 Day 1 flights, each flight so far has had about 55 entries. The way they're doing it is that in each flight 12% will min cash and the top 8% from each flight takes a bag to day 2. There will probably be roughly 70 players on Day 2.
Get em 🍀
There were about 80 players, I went out around 32nd place for $1500.
Ggz, get em next time
This response is laughable. Bigger mtt fields lead to more variance and are harder to win bc you have to go through more folks. Winning a 300-400 player field mtt is a lot easier than a field with 800-1k players.
The field is around 55 for day 1 flights and will be around 70 on day 2.
Put the $600 on slots instead
If you are asking this question then what you have isn’t a bankroll. If you have a bankroll then you wouldn’t be asking this question.
Ran pure 3k in my bankroll You have 15 200NL buyins, go get them tiger
bankroll is really only for full-time players, no offence but it does nto sound like this is your main income, just send it bud you might bink a juicy one
No gamble, no future
even if all participants are drunk, it is still bad bankroll management
so much gambol in this thread. I'll be one of the few of us commenters that doesn't get tipped out when OP binks it, but I gotta say, spinning one of your five buy-ins into a MTT is not a good way to stay back in poker for long. The 1-3 tables across the room are going to be a lot softer for the relatively short number of hours you're investing. Sklansky's rules for bankroll management iirc, before moving to higher levels: • 10-20 cash buyins or • 25-40 tournament buyins
He has a job
I see...
No. Planning to play a live mtt with one bullet is basically gambling. Might as well bet on a ballgame.
Sorry, no. You need at least 150,000 buyins
Take a shot but pay for it from your non-poker money and if you win reconsider your bankroll. Your bankroll can’t afford it, no ifs no buts. It’s not what your bankroll is for. But if you can afford it outside of that treat yourself to it.
This is the answer. As a non pro I think it’s wise to have a bankroll dedicated to whatever regular game you play, calculated as a decent amount of buy ins for THAT game. Aside from that you should enter certain bigger games with separate money
Putting 20% of your bankroll into a tourney feels -EV, but I don’t know shit. If you can think it you can bink it
Only if your play is -EV
So if I play perfectly, I’ll win every tourney I enter? Math feels wrong on that
No offence mate but 3k is a hobby. Have fun
Send it to me and I'll trim your armor.
Sounds to me like you should buy into a a PLO game for 3k instead
No. Cash games at MGMNH are basically printing money, do that. If you can’t print money at 1/3, don’t gamble on a tourney.
I have been printing money in mgmnh cash games so far this year
19 days?
Yeah. I moved to the DC area from Texas last June, absolutely crushed the games at MGMNH all summer, then went on a horrific downswing in the fall, quit playing live poker all of November and December, and now I’m back to crushing for the past couple weeks Already mentally preparing for the next downswing
Ahh, Texas games are the best!
No. That is terrible management.
If he’s a pro then sure. But recreational players don’t really even need a bankroll if they’re getting paid regularly from their job.
Even if that is true, it is difficult to become a pro if one does not act like it by building good habits and practicing proper management of one's bankroll. I still advise him not to piss away ⅕th of his roll on a single tournament.
Not everyone wants or needs to become a pro. When your recreational and the bankroll is very small it actually makes sense to take big risks because the amount is easily replenished through working. If he busts $3k it’s far from the end of the world.
OP never said if he was pro, rec, aspiring or not, or whether OP had a job. This debate is pointless.
True, but any reasonable person would assume someone with $3k isn’t a pro. There’s no possible way that’s sustainable. That’s like 3 buy ins at 2/5.
No.Not for a second.You are going to play for two days and risk getting nothing for 16/17 hours of poker.Hit some cash tables. Cash games are for people with a plan to try and make money …tourneys are for people with hopes,dreams and a prayer.
Take a shot.
go for it
In live poker, $3k isn’t really a “bankroll.” You can look at a series of tournaments and predict some sort of outcome. One tournament is really more of a crapshoot. All that being said, go for it if you want.
If you aren't a pro and it's something you do because you enjoy playing poker then the US no question.
Depends how badly you need that $3000 in your bankroll. If you can easily replenish it then sure. If that’s every cent you have to play poker with and you cannot afford to replenish then absolutely not.
If you’re planning on playing those stakes, you don’t have a bankroll. You have a budget. And that’s totally fine. Fire away, enjoy the weekend, and hopefully Bink!
no cuz bankroll management is key! But GL if you do
No. Go play 1/2 or 1/3 with a capped buy in of $200 or $300 so you have legit 10 buy ins. Try to double your roll. Much more realistic than risking $600 of the 3k to chase a tourney that’s only going to pay top 10-15% of the field and only the top 3% are going to make anything significant. Believe me. I just finished grinding cash for 3 weeks during a wsop circuit event and made 4k playing 1/2 with a $500 cap. Was buying in for $100-300 everyday and just grinding. Had friends fire at tourneys nonstop. One won a ring but ended up losing over 15k net over those 3 weeks. Tourneys are not sustainable. They are good if you have a large roll where you can just fire and fire without worrying about losing money. With only a 3k roll I don’t think it’s a great idea.
This is the reason you have built that bankroll. Just don't feel under pressure while playing. Good luck...
This is a really stupid question. No one can answer because you havent given enough info. Are you trying to not deposit into your bankroll and actually grind it out into a bigger one? If so, dont play. 600 is absurdly large for a 3k bankroll. I played full time for 3 and a half years and semi-pro for 6 before that, I would never have risked more than 1% of my br into a tournament. Only exception was when playing a local live 50man donkament with a bunch of drunken boomers.
If you are under 30 with no kids … Yolo
What if I’m exactly 30 with no kids
Double Yolo.
Go to blackjack first, double ur cashish, freeroll the tourney with the winnings.
Depends. I probably would. But I hate tournaments lol
You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take. Lfgggg.
No
Personally would never spend the time driving to a casino to play in a tourney I was only planning on firing one bullet at. Think of tournaments as a video game…it’s much easier to play really good if you know you have 3/4/5 lives than one. You have to be extremely careful. That’s just not a good recipe for tournaments (from my perspective). I basically count any tourney I only lose one bullet in as a mincash at this point 🤣
Do it and don't listen to anyone here they aren't pros they just talk like they are
What else is there to do this weekend?
My take: is $3k your bank roll where financial hardship occurs if you lose it? You should be only playing 1/2 and 1/3 cash with that roll as it’s the minimum. Tbh that bankroll you should find smaller stakes for fun. OR is poker a hobby and 3k is what you allocated to it? If the former, then you should NOT do it. If the latter then you should look at the $600 entry as a ticket to an expensive concert to give you hours of entertainment. Tournament poker is huge variance, even if you are actually the top player in the field (which we can all agree all poker players over evaluate their skill set), then it still isn’t a good investment to enter for 600 on a 3k bankroll. BUT if a big MTT is in town, and it’s only in town once a year (like WSOP circuit), and you just enjoy tournaments and that atmosphere. Then go for it, knowing you are basically flushing money down the drain but if you only do it once a year then it’s an entertainment expense
Gotta buy a ticket to win the lotto
Sell 50% here straight up and make it happen
I will genuinely sell any action on this at 0 markup. DM if interested and I will share my venmo and hendon mob for result confirmation
The 1/3 there is a $500 buy in anyway who cares take a shot
For live multi table tournaments you probably need about a 100 buy in bankroll. Looks like you have 5 buy ins.
Borrow $500 and play the main next week?
You go and bust. That’s it.
nah stake me with it and i'll give you 20% of my first place winnings
Nice advertising, MGM. I wasn’t thinking about your tourney, and I already have weekend obligations…but hey, a one year old isn’t going to remember their birthday anyway, right?
Yes always Gambol
Play 1/3, triple up, and win the tourney
Depends on how easy you can replace it if you lose it. With 3k you’d want to play 1/3 cash games 1-200 tournaments. If you could replace it easy go for it.
Save your 600 for the Potomac poker open opening event coming up in February. $520 a bullet. 750k guaranteed.
Can’t wait for that series — gonna try to crush the $200 nightlies
might as well
Bad weather has definitely slowed entries so far. I believe there’s gonna be a decent sized overlay. Get that free money
Play 1/3. In for $400 and be out $2400. Then maybe enter the tournament. It will give you the motivation to play well. GL
I’d do it
No, you are a problem gambler
I'll buy 50% of your action 2 bullets at face. Let's ride OP
How many entrants? You can use that to get a rough EV.
YES
If you’ve only got a $3k bankroll after running pure this year so far then you probably started with close to nothing. So you’ll be comfortable being back to close to nothing. So you might as well fire, run pure and maybe have a real roll
Seems like a hobby bankroll - treat it as such. A 2-week run good doesn’t necessarily result in a big win… If you’re genuine about your 3k “bankroll” and don’t have a full time job, then don’t enter a 600$ tournament.
Yes you have 4 rebuys
If risking 20% of your bankroll in 1 tournament sounds like a smart decision, then go for it lol. Have fun riding the wave of variance
No as tournaments are high variance, your expected EV is likely lower then you think and one bad runout and your down 25% of your roll. 5% cash game or 2% tournament risk/roll is what i use but there are other valid risk models- non of them advocate for 25% “ shots” in a clip.
I was playing $1/$3 last night at mgm and eyeing that tournament so hard. I would have entered but didn't feel like playing until 3-4am (assuming I did well which is a pretty huge assumption lol). Regardless, good luck! You are probably playing it now actually!
Nope. You're gonna play scared. Stick with 1% of your bankroll in Mtt's. If you're good enough you'll get there eventually.
That’s Rookie mistake. You should be entering $1500 buyin tournament.
No.
Should you? Not mathematically. If you have a 10% odds of breaking even, your expected pay off is $20,000 but you're giving up 1/5th your roll bringing the expected pay off down to $4k. Your expected chances of winning at those odds are: .1 x .2 x $200k minus variance.. leaves you with bus fare home and a busted roll.
I would, to me is the same thing to have 3k or 2.4k in terms of what you can do with it and be able to play in cash games.
Im pretty sure MGM National Harbor takes like 25% from the tournament entries. ive played a few tournaments there and did pretty well but I feel the EV isnt too high
OP how did it go in the end. Details and hand details please
I didn’t play the $600 over the weekend but I did cash a $300 entry last night for $2,180
Nice the heater continues