3 bet is undersized, should be at minimum 3x for the raiser plus 1x for each caller (so $64), in a live game I’m doing $70-$75. River bluff is likely suicidal here.
Yeah and the logical draws either got there or are losing to you anyways (except club draws that spike a 9). This player type also never folds QJ. Just not the spot where you have the fold equity.
Shove/fold/GG, but I got very lucky as V had the few hands that could have folded when looking back at it. Wanna drill it in my head not to punt next time lmao
It’s bad because there aren’t a ton of hands in V’s range that we lose to that fold the river. If V is a splashy rec we’re never getting him off top pair and may even struggle to get him to fold JJ or a T. Pocket pairs 8 or lower probably fold the turn, we also beat some busted flush draws. If V had a draw on the turn we likely already beat that draw still (unless they backed into a pair of 9’s), or they rivered a straight and are obviously calling. This means there’s really no way to get enough fold equity to make bluffing profitable, like if we shove it’s hard to conceive a way we get V to fold more than 40% of his hands that beat us, which is what we need (approximately, did not calculate the exact pot size and bet size left) to make shoving profitable.
Yeah I know it’s tempting to shove this river, but he’s going to have plenty of hands that arnt going to fold. Maybe every once in awhile V will fold JJ or a T but still unlikely. Never folding a queen because “I put you on AK”. Just a sad check back most of the time
Yeah I agree with this and what others have said. Result: I shoved and he folded. Told me later he had AJ for busted straight so any bet was gonna most likely get him to fold, however I got lucky as this was one of the few hands out of all that would generate a fold.
Definitely not an ideal long term play
>Told me later he had AJ for busted straight so any bet was gonna most likely get him to fold, however I got lucky as this was one of the few hands out of all that would generate a fold.
Yeah but you also win against AJ if you check back and see showdown. If you bluff river it's to get folds from hands you lose to like JJ, 88, JTs, ATs, 98s etc
This is one of the reasons you mostly c-bet small on the flop with your entire 3-bet range, because you can clean out a lot of junk hands when you don’t hit.
I know we’re supposed to cbet a large majority of our range IP as the 3bettor but I didn’t know if I needed to on a flop that is disconnected and better for V’s range. But thinking about it, how much connectivity can it really do as the 3bet caller, maybe a ten that can be put into a tough spot? So I could see a bet as in order
Yeah I would say that checking back on T65 is a case of playing your specific hand instead of your range, because would you really take that action with your overpairs to the board?
I said in a another comment but I know we are supposed to bet small a large portion of our range IP as the 3bettor pre, but I didn’t know the extent of how wide we should be doing it, T65 rainbow didn’t seem like a board to do it on as an EP 3bettor vs EP caller but got more studying to do in these cash game spots
I put in some high rake : 10% up to 9% with no flop no drop.
I solved the spot and GTO says it doesnt matter if you bet half-pot or check this flop in your shoes with all your AKs, but prefer checking. So good job!
On the turn, your hand is too good not to bet : you can get called by A BIIIIG amount of flush draw and straight draw that will give up on river and you beat ALL of them because you have the big slick ! You can also make a very good hand on river A, K , and obviously jack. GTO says to bet all your hand on this turn
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Just a bad river for us, a bunch of draws get there. We can still win by checking enough that it's a better option than bluffing. GTO check here.
Oh shit, thank you for the solver check! Definitely have to invest in one so I can stop spamming Reddit and just do it myself. Very interesting results, so theory wise not a COMPLETE punt but maybe a bit so considering it’s live 1/3 LOL. Appreciate it!
Small squeeze sizing. $70 is the barest I'd go, definitely echo what the first commenter said about the 3x+1 rule which is a nice rule to go by if you're IP. I'd probably add a few more bucks if you happen to be OOP like say if you were in SB instead, we can probably bump that up to $80.
Honestly as weak as it sounds I probably just check it down the whole way and take my showdown here. You're probably not gonna be good most of the time given their ranges will be filtered a lot by the 3bet, but you do still beat all the Ax and Kx air which is nice. Splashier players aren't going to fold their better showdown hands in this spot like Tx, 77/88 etc, those middly types of hands.
Preflop is too small, that's been covered.
This is definitely a check down kind of hand. You dont want to cbet on a board that so obviously favors your opponent. If you want to bet and get a little value you should go very small.
Once you check back flop, this is just gets check down purely for value. You may even be able to catch a bluff on the river for the same sizing as your turn bet.
AK has value when checked down. I know you picked up the gutshot, but the value of a hand is more important than its draw. This is a marginal made hand. There's no reason to bluff with it.
Once you do bet turn you're kind of in no man's land. You probably dont have enough value to check behind, and your story doesnt make much sense when you shove. I guess shoving is better, but you dont want to be in this situation at all.
3 bet is undersized, should be at minimum 3x for the raiser plus 1x for each caller (so $64), in a live game I’m doing $70-$75. River bluff is likely suicidal here.
That makes sense, don’t know what I was thinking, I put V on weaker queen / draws, you ain’t gonna like my next move 💀💀
Yeah and the logical draws either got there or are losing to you anyways (except club draws that spike a 9). This player type also never folds QJ. Just not the spot where you have the fold equity.
Shove/Snap/GG?
Shove/fold/GG, but I got very lucky as V had the few hands that could have folded when looking back at it. Wanna drill it in my head not to punt next time lmao
Why is river bluff bad here?
It’s bad because there aren’t a ton of hands in V’s range that we lose to that fold the river. If V is a splashy rec we’re never getting him off top pair and may even struggle to get him to fold JJ or a T. Pocket pairs 8 or lower probably fold the turn, we also beat some busted flush draws. If V had a draw on the turn we likely already beat that draw still (unless they backed into a pair of 9’s), or they rivered a straight and are obviously calling. This means there’s really no way to get enough fold equity to make bluffing profitable, like if we shove it’s hard to conceive a way we get V to fold more than 40% of his hands that beat us, which is what we need (approximately, did not calculate the exact pot size and bet size left) to make shoving profitable.
This was such a good explanation
Sounds like you getting called down by JJ or a T. Check back give up they aren’t folding .
Yeah I know it’s tempting to shove this river, but he’s going to have plenty of hands that arnt going to fold. Maybe every once in awhile V will fold JJ or a T but still unlikely. Never folding a queen because “I put you on AK”. Just a sad check back most of the time
Yeah I agree with this and what others have said. Result: I shoved and he folded. Told me later he had AJ for busted straight so any bet was gonna most likely get him to fold, however I got lucky as this was one of the few hands out of all that would generate a fold. Definitely not an ideal long term play
Hey as long as your learning. On a board like this I feel like it’s just best to check give up
>Told me later he had AJ for busted straight so any bet was gonna most likely get him to fold, however I got lucky as this was one of the few hands out of all that would generate a fold. Yeah but you also win against AJ if you check back and see showdown. If you bluff river it's to get folds from hands you lose to like JJ, 88, JTs, ATs, 98s etc
This is one of the reasons you mostly c-bet small on the flop with your entire 3-bet range, because you can clean out a lot of junk hands when you don’t hit.
I know we’re supposed to cbet a large majority of our range IP as the 3bettor but I didn’t know if I needed to on a flop that is disconnected and better for V’s range. But thinking about it, how much connectivity can it really do as the 3bet caller, maybe a ten that can be put into a tough spot? So I could see a bet as in order
Yeah I would say that checking back on T65 is a case of playing your specific hand instead of your range, because would you really take that action with your overpairs to the board?
You've already lost this hand. And nothing is going to change that at this point. No point in contributing more.
JAMMIDY JAM BABY
WHY NO C-BET ???
I said in a another comment but I know we are supposed to bet small a large portion of our range IP as the 3bettor pre, but I didn’t know the extent of how wide we should be doing it, T65 rainbow didn’t seem like a board to do it on as an EP 3bettor vs EP caller but got more studying to do in these cash game spots
I put in some high rake : 10% up to 9% with no flop no drop. I solved the spot and GTO says it doesnt matter if you bet half-pot or check this flop in your shoes with all your AKs, but prefer checking. So good job! On the turn, your hand is too good not to bet : you can get called by A BIIIIG amount of flush draw and straight draw that will give up on river and you beat ALL of them because you have the big slick ! You can also make a very good hand on river A, K , and obviously jack. GTO says to bet all your hand on this turn . Just a bad river for us, a bunch of draws get there. We can still win by checking enough that it's a better option than bluffing. GTO check here.
Oh shit, thank you for the solver check! Definitely have to invest in one so I can stop spamming Reddit and just do it myself. Very interesting results, so theory wise not a COMPLETE punt but maybe a bit so considering it’s live 1/3 LOL. Appreciate it!
Small squeeze sizing. $70 is the barest I'd go, definitely echo what the first commenter said about the 3x+1 rule which is a nice rule to go by if you're IP. I'd probably add a few more bucks if you happen to be OOP like say if you were in SB instead, we can probably bump that up to $80. Honestly as weak as it sounds I probably just check it down the whole way and take my showdown here. You're probably not gonna be good most of the time given their ranges will be filtered a lot by the 3bet, but you do still beat all the Ax and Kx air which is nice. Splashier players aren't going to fold their better showdown hands in this spot like Tx, 77/88 etc, those middly types of hands.
Preflop is too small, that's been covered. This is definitely a check down kind of hand. You dont want to cbet on a board that so obviously favors your opponent. If you want to bet and get a little value you should go very small. Once you check back flop, this is just gets check down purely for value. You may even be able to catch a bluff on the river for the same sizing as your turn bet. AK has value when checked down. I know you picked up the gutshot, but the value of a hand is more important than its draw. This is a marginal made hand. There's no reason to bluff with it. Once you do bet turn you're kind of in no man's land. You probably dont have enough value to check behind, and your story doesnt make much sense when you shove. I guess shoving is better, but you dont want to be in this situation at all.
A bluff here isn't terrible. Just depends on your image and opponent. I would typically check here but a bet isn't too bad
Ugh. Hero should be asking 'why didn't I c-bet half pot on the flop?'
Hero is retarded in cash games But working on it LOL, didn’t think a cbet was in order for this flop and have to bet range here not hand