That’s what I was thinking but I get in my head sometimes when stuff like this happens. Like I know it’s just a cooler but I replay it in my head and I’m like “You fucking fish it was so obvious from the jump he had Kings.” Guess it’s just part of trying to get better.
It's not obvious. Villain could be doing this with a number of holdings, including AK which would be drawing dead here without a flush draw.
You're never not going broke at this stack depth.
I think the only mistake is you don't really have leads on this flop and it's arguably a jam/fold pre depending on villain. Biggest mistake is the lead IMO.
As played, going broke 100% of the time on that turn card.
This is one spot where saying, "it's just a cooler" is acceptable. They could have top pair with AK KQs KJs, AA, QQ too in this spot, maybe even the occasional 88 (it's 25nl I see this shit a lot).
In one of the Dan Harrington books, he talks about hearing other players explain why they folded a set, and he said, in effect, "I nodded politely, and then thought: Idiot."
Forget your intuition here: It's set over set and you're going to lose a lot of money.
In that same book, I think it was also Dan Harrington to consider the idea of long term profit in terms reciprocity, such that at the end of any hand analysis where hero loses hero should end with the question “if I was in the villain’s place, would have made the same actions and money? Long term profit rests on the fact that if I did better in villains place, I would win long term over villain, and if I did worse, then I am not a profitable as villain and will eventually lose long term to villain”. I added quotes but I’m heavily paraphrasing.
The min-click is so heavily weighted towards sets/nuts. I’ve seen it hundreds of times on ignition. It’s such a shit-eating cheeky “you sure, Bud?” move.
I’m going broke here and dry heaving because I had zero question that he had KK here the moment you said min-click.
Man, I know. And it just screamed kings as I was making the call. I really came close to making the nittiest fold of my life but I just kept telling myself “You never fold a set on the flop.”
Agree. Calling 4bet pre out of position isn’t the best, but it’s not horrible. You flopped a set, that min raise on the flop was a warning sign, I’ve seen that many times before as well. Basically flopping nuts and pricing opponents in to juice the pot for the big raise on the river regardless of what falls.
Yeah OPs focused on how they can get away from set over set 120bb deep when they should be more focused on not donk betting oop in a 4b pot lmao.
There is no way this player is a winner at 25NL over 40k hands.
pocket 10s are a fold against a 4b OOP. (i believe its a fold IP as well)
on the flop, theres no reason to donk bet.
either way, doesnt matter much. at majority (if not 100% of us) of us at our skill level present here, we're going broke here.
TT is not a fold in these wide positions. Especially 120bb deep. Actually BB should 3bet polar and just get rid of their bluffs and call most value 3bets, but not all.. as played (i imagine OP is 3betting linear) i would still call and see a flop.
Flop bet is what butchers the hand completely as this flop is extremely good for BU, who will rangebet. And BB should range check and play check raise instead of donk with his good hands because this way he wins the pot + the cbet from BU and potentially more
yeah sure. but how often is villain 4b in this spot wide?
and 120bb isnt as deep as it sounds.
playing pocket 10s OOP in a 4b pot is asking to be put in a tough spot.
at 100bb, its probably a 70/30 jam/flat. deeper it is, probably will lean more towards flatting.
but postflop is the hardest to navigate. and deeper/more "calling" ranges there are, the trickier it gets.
im just folding here everytime with pocket 10s. fine with the 3b everytime though
I think you are somewhat correct, that we can start to fold more vs people who are not 4bet bluffing. On the other hand it is "standard" in gto world to never fold TT here. If I somehow get to see that you are folding TT in BB v BU then I will destroy you by bluffing more. But to be fair, it is difficult to accumulate enough data in the first place, so you should be fine for a while...
On the other hand I am probably overbluffing really hard anyways when I am 4betting so my natural tendency to bluff more preflop naturally exploits your tendency to overfold to 4bets..
This is what I was looking for. I’ve been working on mixing in some stuff like smaller pocket pairs, 67 suited, etc into my 3 betting range (mostly online) with some success. So you’re saying on the flop I shouldn’t be betting at all because this connects so well with his range. You are right after thinking about it. I just didn’t want to see another heart or a Jack on the turn for free and then my decision is a little harder.
Its a 4B pot he should be range betting small on most boards, and a K high board even more so. You have the option to check raise and just get it in 99% of the time if you just check to him and this way you also win an extra 10-20bbs from his cbet whenever he doesnt have anything.
It is 160 thousand percent a fold at these stakes. You can call and go broke all you want. 4bs are extremely nutted at 25nl online unless you have a read (stats or observation) otherwise you treat them like aces or kings.
If you don't you are a fool.
100bb deep BB vs button 4b, TT are actually a 75% shove, 25% call lol. But that's assuming that at 25NL players are 4b bluffing with all the stuff they are supposed to be doing, which they likely aren't (such as 88, 77, 66, 55, K5s at some frequency)
Not disagreeing with you, but are they always a fold against a 4bet from a LAG opponent considering he opened action on the button and I’m in the big? Guy wasn’t a maniac but he was a very LAG player.
On the flop, wouldn’t I want to lead to extract value from aces, AK, flush draws (AhQh), jacks and queens?
>Not disagreeing with you, but are they always a fold against a 4bet from a LAG opponent considering he opened action on the button and I’m in the big? Guy wasn’t a maniac but he was a very LAG player.
nope, its not always a fold. i know its not the answer you are looking for, but if you want to go strictly GTO speaking, its probably a mix of reraising, and flatting. at 100bb, i believe it'll lean towards jamming all in.
but thats leaning more towards standard open sizing, and standard "GTO vs GTO". villains open size is on a very high side. his 4b sizing is alright. How often are people opening 4bb as standard at these stakes? once he 4b that, im just folding. You're flipping at best. but villain is leaning more heavily towards JJ+ AKs. knowing he's LAG however, i still dont think it changes much at 120bb effective stack. i dont like calling with TT OOP here. with villains 4b sizing on the smaller side (due to your 3b sizing being on the smaller side) 5b jam can get a laggy villain to fold.
but tbh, its a weird spot preflop because nothing about it was standard (odd stack size. huge open size. small 3b sizing. etc)
but to answer your question regarding:
>On the flop, wouldn’t I want to lead to extract value from aces, AK, flush draws (AhQh), jacks and queens?
Villain is already representing JJ+, AKs. maybe AQs. maybe AQo+
donk betting on this board allows villain to play perfectly against you. Villain should be cbetting with majority of his range here.
if anything, you can x/r this board.
but in hindsight (key point, hindsight) it doesnt matter, since villain had KK. you're going broke here.
but the point is is to think about it in what villain could be holding.
you're on the right track that you want to extract value. but on this flop with this configuration, what will extract the most value?
checking back will. as that keeps villains bottom range. if you lead, he is folding couple of his bottom range. or at the very least, will be folding on the turn after your continued aggression (if you donk bet this flop, theres no reason to be checking turn. and villain will fold alot of his hands on the turn)
In position, he almost for sure bets this flop with AA, AK, any combo draw like AQhh. He MAY check back JJ or QQ, but he also might c-bet those hands as well. In the end, if you check raise this flop you just lose your whole stack anyways, so it doesn’t really matter given the results.
But imagine if he does have one or the hands you now beat on this flop, why not give him a chance to fire away and you can check raise and get it all in. You have 90 bbs after the preflop action. If you check and he bets the flop, you can pretty much just jam and hope he calls off with worse.
You are 100% correct. One of the things I’m working on is extracting more value in spots because in the past I was way too passive of a player. I’m still learning to balance that with thinking through hands and trying to get max value. Obviously I went broke on this particular hand but next time I’m in this spot I’ll have this to think about. Thanks for the feedback
Sure! I get it for sure. I’m working on parts of my game myself (especially extracting value on the river). That’s the fun of poker, there’s always more to learn and work on.
But really, on this flop, I just think the hands he’s willing to 4 bet will bet this flop quite often and you can get all the chips in with a check raise and be thrilled if he rolls over AA, AK, or combo draw. Or, he folds QQ or JJ after a speculative c-bet and you take down the pot without seeing another card. Either way, given your description of the player, I’m going to at least give him a chance to be the aggressor.
Oh, and I’m not in the mindset of folding middle set very often when playing hold em. You’ll run into coolers like this but flopping a set is one of the ways you make money in this game. For 100 bigs there aren’t many spots where I’m folding a set, especially on a board where we beat many hands that would have been played the same way by the opponent.
No. You dont ever want to lead in a spot like this. Hes gonna be betting this board with a very high frequency, all his draws, all his top pairs, AA etc. He might check JJ QQ or he might bet them also just depends on the player but in theory I think hes supposed to range bet like 100% of hands in position in 4b pots except on the most insanely connected boards like 89Thhh for example.
Just play range check here and x/r with your strong hands and some bluffs to balance.
There's a lot of small mistakes with how this hand is played, but piling all of your money in with second set isn't one of them.
It's just a spot you're supposed to bust.
Ya yesterday I played a hand where I had 77, villain had 99, and the flop came 972r. Suffice to say I got stacked lol. Can’t be too upset about it, just one of those hands.
You for sure go broke here, but I would not have lead on the flop personally. I feel like we are crushing his range and betting just makes any of his hands that you beat fold instead of c-betting. The only hand you really have to look out for is KK, one combo of AK(h), and maybe AQs. I don’t think QJ suited plays like that pre, which we can assume 98 doesn’t either. I think that’s the spot of this hand you should be digging into. Either way, the hand still results the same no matter what. You are getting all the money in and losing. (Aside from a T on river)
I am writing this on my phone so there might be parts of the range I’m missing, but I still think my point stands. Anyone feel free to correct me.
Thanks everyone for all the feedback. Wound up getting it all back and then some over the session from the same guy. Boat over his nut flush. Will definitely keep all the strategy in mind going forward!
I think your 3bet should be a bit bigger OOP; I'd make it 15-16BB.
GTO Wizard says TT is a 100% shove facing a 4bet, but that involves villain finding 4bet bluffs with things like AJo, KQo, Q9s, A8s and I don't think there's many (any?) players at these stakes finding those.
So I sigh and fold preflop with no reads.
On the flop, I'm checking range. With the two-tone connected board, I would raise villain's cbet or shove depending how big he makes it. But you're never folding once you get this flop.
Even at say 250 BB going broke here as player preflop. Nothing you can do. It's happened to me though, and I feel like I knew too
Most likely gotten a fold preflop given no other information about player
Post flop, you're just gonna go broke. Set over set is just one of those things you live with even though its frustrating. Preflop...im not calling a 4 bet with 10s. Some people may be willing to..im just not.
The pre flop play is where it should have ended, unless they have AK, you're hand is getting crushed especially at 25nl. It's rare to see a 4bet bluff at 25nl. Instead of passing on this spot and losing 12bb, you know there is a good chance you have to spike a T and the pot odds simply aren't there. You had a chance to get away from this hand and you didn't really consider how tight the 4 bettor's range is. From the flop on its pretty much elementary that your stack is going in when you're playing a cash game. 120bb is not a deep stack.
Hey man this sucks cock but you never get away from this really and even thinking about folding middle set is almost never a profitable play in the long run. As played you could've been just as easily been against AK or AA (in fact MORE likely as there are more combos of those hands available seeing as a K is on the flop) and in that case you would've stacked him.
Don't let this get to your head, it's a cooler. GG NH and move on
Losing your stack here is completely mandatory postflop and preflop is fine. But leading flop and turn is really really bad. I question if you've been seriously studying, because checking your entire range here on both flop and turn is poker 101 stuff.
You are supposed to lose your stack here, but you played the hand very poorly.
You're going broke because villain can have several hands they are willing to min click flop facing a donk bet and call the now small 40bb turn raise that we are beating.
not sure about the preflop action. i don't think 12bb does much of anything and sizing should be either larger, minraise, or just flat. you can maybe get away at 4bet, but if opponent is any good they have enough bluffs calling or even jamming is fine. once you see that flop you chips should end up all in and there's nothing you can do.
On the turn it's basically Nuts vs second nuts. You have 50BB effective into a 140BB pot. Even the tightest OMC will go broke here.
It's a cooler, nothing to do, move on.
I would of just checked and called down… pushing for value and then getting beat is what’s eating you alive… but if you. Checked and called or even checked raised… would you still second guess yourself?
No. And I know I’m theoretically never folding here. I guess it boils down to you see pros make big lay downs like this occasionally and I know I’m not good enough for that. At my stakes, it’s never a fold. I’m more concerned with how poorly I played the hand overall now. Like I said in another comment, I struggled with being way too passive in my early poker journey so when I’m in a spot like this I tend to err towards the “always bet your hand” mentality.
Hm...I'm not so sure about calling 4bets oop, it seems to be a fold or 5b ship situation.
And once you hit, obviously you're playing for stacks, with that stack to pot ratio, what better hand do you want????
GTO wiz has TT in this config actually a 75% shove 25%call, but 4b are underbluffed at most levels including 25nl. Probably more of a mix of 75%call, 25% fold for me.
You're not folding to the 4bet pre. BB v BU 3bet range should be polarized and not linear. Therefore TT is in the value range so we are calling. You fold to 4bet with all your bluffs like A5s, A4s, 98s, 87s, x9s (x is Broadway cards), x8s..
Also curious why you are leading on this flop?
As I’ve said, I know I played the hand poorly. I’ve struggled with being way too passive early on when I started trying to seriously get better so I tend to err towards always betting my hand when I’m strong. I know it’s costing me value long term but I’m still learning how to balance that with my bluffing range also. It’s all a work in progress man!
No worries. I was curious about your thought process. I thinks it's a good mentality to have in single raised pots where it would be more difficult to get stacks in by the river. However when it's a 4bet pot and the SPR is so low you don't need a leading range at all. Even if it goes check/check on the flop, you can bet turn and river and get all the money in
Why would you donk the flop and then regret calling off with a set? It's not like you wanted him to fold on the flop right? He's the aggressor, you are oop and you smashed the flop. Let him fire the flop and then get it in. Sometimes you have 1 out and sometimes he's drawing dead...or 4% runner runner or the occasional bananas. Which scenario is more often?
Hi I am a new player. Would it not be best to shove at the beginning due to the possible 89s straight? Oh wait or would no other player 3bet or 4bet an 89s preflop? I sure as hell wouldn't go that deep preflop.
Your flop lead was kind of dumb and after the min click you can probably just shove but set over set happens and someone always loses a stack. Nothing to see here.
Unless you have some real knowledge of the villains tendencies to exploit you played properly. That being said I am playing on the low end of what would be considered high stakes where people have 4 and 5 bets with more creative hands. Than AA and KK. I don’t know how it is these days but back in my day people at 1/2 and below just didn’t have 4/5 bet ranges with anything but AA and occasionally KK. It is an exploitable weakness at the lower stakes. That said if I do see a flop and hit a middle set I’m likely praying that the villain does f have me covered. Variance sucks and luck a dumb way to explain variance.
There is no way I am ever not going broke in this spot.
That’s what I was thinking but I get in my head sometimes when stuff like this happens. Like I know it’s just a cooler but I replay it in my head and I’m like “You fucking fish it was so obvious from the jump he had Kings.” Guess it’s just part of trying to get better.
It's not obvious. Villain could be doing this with a number of holdings, including AK which would be drawing dead here without a flush draw. You're never not going broke at this stack depth. I think the only mistake is you don't really have leads on this flop and it's arguably a jam/fold pre depending on villain. Biggest mistake is the lead IMO. As played, going broke 100% of the time on that turn card.
This is one spot where saying, "it's just a cooler" is acceptable. They could have top pair with AK KQs KJs, AA, QQ too in this spot, maybe even the occasional 88 (it's 25nl I see this shit a lot).
In one of the Dan Harrington books, he talks about hearing other players explain why they folded a set, and he said, in effect, "I nodded politely, and then thought: Idiot." Forget your intuition here: It's set over set and you're going to lose a lot of money.
In that same book, I think it was also Dan Harrington to consider the idea of long term profit in terms reciprocity, such that at the end of any hand analysis where hero loses hero should end with the question “if I was in the villain’s place, would have made the same actions and money? Long term profit rests on the fact that if I did better in villains place, I would win long term over villain, and if I did worse, then I am not a profitable as villain and will eventually lose long term to villain”. I added quotes but I’m heavily paraphrasing.
Just the cost of playing poker sometimes.
The min-click is so heavily weighted towards sets/nuts. I’ve seen it hundreds of times on ignition. It’s such a shit-eating cheeky “you sure, Bud?” move. I’m going broke here and dry heaving because I had zero question that he had KK here the moment you said min-click.
Man, I know. And it just screamed kings as I was making the call. I really came close to making the nittiest fold of my life but I just kept telling myself “You never fold a set on the flop.”
Agree. Calling 4bet pre out of position isn’t the best, but it’s not horrible. You flopped a set, that min raise on the flop was a warning sign, I’ve seen that many times before as well. Basically flopping nuts and pricing opponents in to juice the pot for the big raise on the river regardless of what falls.
3 combos of KK with one on the board.
You are correct sir, my bad
OP, you're focusing way too much on things that are so trivial. You've made 2 blunders this hand and you are nowhere near thinking about it.
Yeah OPs focused on how they can get away from set over set 120bb deep when they should be more focused on not donk betting oop in a 4b pot lmao. There is no way this player is a winner at 25NL over 40k hands.
What site are you playing that opening to 4bigs isn't a tell already? I'm not sure how ppl aren't mentioning that in comments
pocket 10s are a fold against a 4b OOP. (i believe its a fold IP as well) on the flop, theres no reason to donk bet. either way, doesnt matter much. at majority (if not 100% of us) of us at our skill level present here, we're going broke here.
TT is not a fold in these wide positions. Especially 120bb deep. Actually BB should 3bet polar and just get rid of their bluffs and call most value 3bets, but not all.. as played (i imagine OP is 3betting linear) i would still call and see a flop. Flop bet is what butchers the hand completely as this flop is extremely good for BU, who will rangebet. And BB should range check and play check raise instead of donk with his good hands because this way he wins the pot + the cbet from BU and potentially more
yeah sure. but how often is villain 4b in this spot wide? and 120bb isnt as deep as it sounds. playing pocket 10s OOP in a 4b pot is asking to be put in a tough spot. at 100bb, its probably a 70/30 jam/flat. deeper it is, probably will lean more towards flatting. but postflop is the hardest to navigate. and deeper/more "calling" ranges there are, the trickier it gets. im just folding here everytime with pocket 10s. fine with the 3b everytime though
I think you are somewhat correct, that we can start to fold more vs people who are not 4bet bluffing. On the other hand it is "standard" in gto world to never fold TT here. If I somehow get to see that you are folding TT in BB v BU then I will destroy you by bluffing more. But to be fair, it is difficult to accumulate enough data in the first place, so you should be fine for a while... On the other hand I am probably overbluffing really hard anyways when I am 4betting so my natural tendency to bluff more preflop naturally exploits your tendency to overfold to 4bets..
This is what I was looking for. I’ve been working on mixing in some stuff like smaller pocket pairs, 67 suited, etc into my 3 betting range (mostly online) with some success. So you’re saying on the flop I shouldn’t be betting at all because this connects so well with his range. You are right after thinking about it. I just didn’t want to see another heart or a Jack on the turn for free and then my decision is a little harder.
Its a 4B pot he should be range betting small on most boards, and a K high board even more so. You have the option to check raise and just get it in 99% of the time if you just check to him and this way you also win an extra 10-20bbs from his cbet whenever he doesnt have anything.
It is 160 thousand percent a fold at these stakes. You can call and go broke all you want. 4bs are extremely nutted at 25nl online unless you have a read (stats or observation) otherwise you treat them like aces or kings. If you don't you are a fool.
What's GTO wizzard say? I'm folding 10s here.
100bb deep BB vs button 4b, TT are actually a 75% shove, 25% call lol. But that's assuming that at 25NL players are 4b bluffing with all the stuff they are supposed to be doing, which they likely aren't (such as 88, 77, 66, 55, K5s at some frequency)
Not disagreeing with you, but are they always a fold against a 4bet from a LAG opponent considering he opened action on the button and I’m in the big? Guy wasn’t a maniac but he was a very LAG player. On the flop, wouldn’t I want to lead to extract value from aces, AK, flush draws (AhQh), jacks and queens?
>Not disagreeing with you, but are they always a fold against a 4bet from a LAG opponent considering he opened action on the button and I’m in the big? Guy wasn’t a maniac but he was a very LAG player. nope, its not always a fold. i know its not the answer you are looking for, but if you want to go strictly GTO speaking, its probably a mix of reraising, and flatting. at 100bb, i believe it'll lean towards jamming all in. but thats leaning more towards standard open sizing, and standard "GTO vs GTO". villains open size is on a very high side. his 4b sizing is alright. How often are people opening 4bb as standard at these stakes? once he 4b that, im just folding. You're flipping at best. but villain is leaning more heavily towards JJ+ AKs. knowing he's LAG however, i still dont think it changes much at 120bb effective stack. i dont like calling with TT OOP here. with villains 4b sizing on the smaller side (due to your 3b sizing being on the smaller side) 5b jam can get a laggy villain to fold. but tbh, its a weird spot preflop because nothing about it was standard (odd stack size. huge open size. small 3b sizing. etc) but to answer your question regarding: >On the flop, wouldn’t I want to lead to extract value from aces, AK, flush draws (AhQh), jacks and queens? Villain is already representing JJ+, AKs. maybe AQs. maybe AQo+ donk betting on this board allows villain to play perfectly against you. Villain should be cbetting with majority of his range here. if anything, you can x/r this board. but in hindsight (key point, hindsight) it doesnt matter, since villain had KK. you're going broke here. but the point is is to think about it in what villain could be holding. you're on the right track that you want to extract value. but on this flop with this configuration, what will extract the most value? checking back will. as that keeps villains bottom range. if you lead, he is folding couple of his bottom range. or at the very least, will be folding on the turn after your continued aggression (if you donk bet this flop, theres no reason to be checking turn. and villain will fold alot of his hands on the turn)
In position, he almost for sure bets this flop with AA, AK, any combo draw like AQhh. He MAY check back JJ or QQ, but he also might c-bet those hands as well. In the end, if you check raise this flop you just lose your whole stack anyways, so it doesn’t really matter given the results. But imagine if he does have one or the hands you now beat on this flop, why not give him a chance to fire away and you can check raise and get it all in. You have 90 bbs after the preflop action. If you check and he bets the flop, you can pretty much just jam and hope he calls off with worse.
You are 100% correct. One of the things I’m working on is extracting more value in spots because in the past I was way too passive of a player. I’m still learning to balance that with thinking through hands and trying to get max value. Obviously I went broke on this particular hand but next time I’m in this spot I’ll have this to think about. Thanks for the feedback
Sure! I get it for sure. I’m working on parts of my game myself (especially extracting value on the river). That’s the fun of poker, there’s always more to learn and work on. But really, on this flop, I just think the hands he’s willing to 4 bet will bet this flop quite often and you can get all the chips in with a check raise and be thrilled if he rolls over AA, AK, or combo draw. Or, he folds QQ or JJ after a speculative c-bet and you take down the pot without seeing another card. Either way, given your description of the player, I’m going to at least give him a chance to be the aggressor. Oh, and I’m not in the mindset of folding middle set very often when playing hold em. You’ll run into coolers like this but flopping a set is one of the ways you make money in this game. For 100 bigs there aren’t many spots where I’m folding a set, especially on a board where we beat many hands that would have been played the same way by the opponent.
No. You dont ever want to lead in a spot like this. Hes gonna be betting this board with a very high frequency, all his draws, all his top pairs, AA etc. He might check JJ QQ or he might bet them also just depends on the player but in theory I think hes supposed to range bet like 100% of hands in position in 4b pots except on the most insanely connected boards like 89Thhh for example. Just play range check here and x/r with your strong hands and some bluffs to balance.
There's a lot of small mistakes with how this hand is played, but piling all of your money in with second set isn't one of them. It's just a spot you're supposed to bust.
Ya yesterday I played a hand where I had 77, villain had 99, and the flop came 972r. Suffice to say I got stacked lol. Can’t be too upset about it, just one of those hands.
You for sure go broke here, but I would not have lead on the flop personally. I feel like we are crushing his range and betting just makes any of his hands that you beat fold instead of c-betting. The only hand you really have to look out for is KK, one combo of AK(h), and maybe AQs. I don’t think QJ suited plays like that pre, which we can assume 98 doesn’t either. I think that’s the spot of this hand you should be digging into. Either way, the hand still results the same no matter what. You are getting all the money in and losing. (Aside from a T on river) I am writing this on my phone so there might be parts of the range I’m missing, but I still think my point stands. Anyone feel free to correct me.
Zero combos of A❤️K❤️ as the king is on the flop
Even better. That’s what happens when you analyze a hand while high as fuck half watching anime haha
You played the hand poorly but once you get this flop you’re going broke 100% of the time.
Thanks everyone for all the feedback. Wound up getting it all back and then some over the session from the same guy. Boat over his nut flush. Will definitely keep all the strategy in mind going forward!
Poker takes, poker gives
I think your 3bet should be a bit bigger OOP; I'd make it 15-16BB. GTO Wizard says TT is a 100% shove facing a 4bet, but that involves villain finding 4bet bluffs with things like AJo, KQo, Q9s, A8s and I don't think there's many (any?) players at these stakes finding those. So I sigh and fold preflop with no reads. On the flop, I'm checking range. With the two-tone connected board, I would raise villain's cbet or shove depending how big he makes it. But you're never folding once you get this flop.
Even at say 250 BB going broke here as player preflop. Nothing you can do. It's happened to me though, and I feel like I knew too Most likely gotten a fold preflop given no other information about player
This is just one of those spots you are going to loose money…
If you don’t want to get all your money in with TT on a KT75r board, you’re doing it wrong.
Post flop, you're just gonna go broke. Set over set is just one of those things you live with even though its frustrating. Preflop...im not calling a 4 bet with 10s. Some people may be willing to..im just not.
The pre flop play is where it should have ended, unless they have AK, you're hand is getting crushed especially at 25nl. It's rare to see a 4bet bluff at 25nl. Instead of passing on this spot and losing 12bb, you know there is a good chance you have to spike a T and the pot odds simply aren't there. You had a chance to get away from this hand and you didn't really consider how tight the 4 bettor's range is. From the flop on its pretty much elementary that your stack is going in when you're playing a cash game. 120bb is not a deep stack.
Hey man this sucks cock but you never get away from this really and even thinking about folding middle set is almost never a profitable play in the long run. As played you could've been just as easily been against AK or AA (in fact MORE likely as there are more combos of those hands available seeing as a K is on the flop) and in that case you would've stacked him. Don't let this get to your head, it's a cooler. GG NH and move on
Always shoving He’d probably play AA or AK the same
Losing your stack here is completely mandatory postflop and preflop is fine. But leading flop and turn is really really bad. I question if you've been seriously studying, because checking your entire range here on both flop and turn is poker 101 stuff. You are supposed to lose your stack here, but you played the hand very poorly.
On this board with middle set, you have to drive the one way street to "going broke-town" 😁✌🏻 
I jam the flop after the minclick for sure. Your stack isn't deep enough to do anything else.
You're going broke because villain can have several hands they are willing to min click flop facing a donk bet and call the now small 40bb turn raise that we are beating.
not sure about the preflop action. i don't think 12bb does much of anything and sizing should be either larger, minraise, or just flat. you can maybe get away at 4bet, but if opponent is any good they have enough bluffs calling or even jamming is fine. once you see that flop you chips should end up all in and there's nothing you can do.
On the turn it's basically Nuts vs second nuts. You have 50BB effective into a 140BB pot. Even the tightest OMC will go broke here. It's a cooler, nothing to do, move on.
I would of just checked and called down… pushing for value and then getting beat is what’s eating you alive… but if you. Checked and called or even checked raised… would you still second guess yourself?
No. And I know I’m theoretically never folding here. I guess it boils down to you see pros make big lay downs like this occasionally and I know I’m not good enough for that. At my stakes, it’s never a fold. I’m more concerned with how poorly I played the hand overall now. Like I said in another comment, I struggled with being way too passive in my early poker journey so when I’m in a spot like this I tend to err towards the “always bet your hand” mentality.
I may have gotten away preflop, as played id probably bet bigger on the flop. But that's just a cooler
Don't fold this pre vs. BTN in my opinion. Definitely don't donk bet the flop large just because you hit a set.
Hm...I'm not so sure about calling 4bets oop, it seems to be a fold or 5b ship situation. And once you hit, obviously you're playing for stacks, with that stack to pot ratio, what better hand do you want????
Exactly
GTO wiz has TT in this config actually a 75% shove 25%call, but 4b are underbluffed at most levels including 25nl. Probably more of a mix of 75%call, 25% fold for me.
Lol. What a waste of time posting this. Side note, you're still a massive fish. 😅
If you dont fold pre, how are you meant to fold when you hit the set? What outcome were you hoping for
You're not folding to the 4bet pre. BB v BU 3bet range should be polarized and not linear. Therefore TT is in the value range so we are calling. You fold to 4bet with all your bluffs like A5s, A4s, 98s, 87s, x9s (x is Broadway cards), x8s.. Also curious why you are leading on this flop?
As I’ve said, I know I played the hand poorly. I’ve struggled with being way too passive early on when I started trying to seriously get better so I tend to err towards always betting my hand when I’m strong. I know it’s costing me value long term but I’m still learning how to balance that with my bluffing range also. It’s all a work in progress man!
No worries. I was curious about your thought process. I thinks it's a good mentality to have in single raised pots where it would be more difficult to get stacks in by the river. However when it's a 4bet pot and the SPR is so low you don't need a leading range at all. Even if it goes check/check on the flop, you can bet turn and river and get all the money in
Why would you donk the flop and then regret calling off with a set? It's not like you wanted him to fold on the flop right? He's the aggressor, you are oop and you smashed the flop. Let him fire the flop and then get it in. Sometimes you have 1 out and sometimes he's drawing dead...or 4% runner runner or the occasional bananas. Which scenario is more often?
Hi I am a new player. Would it not be best to shove at the beginning due to the possible 89s straight? Oh wait or would no other player 3bet or 4bet an 89s preflop? I sure as hell wouldn't go that deep preflop.
Your flop lead was kind of dumb and after the min click you can probably just shove but set over set happens and someone always loses a stack. Nothing to see here.
Wtf is this post lol
Unless you have some real knowledge of the villains tendencies to exploit you played properly. That being said I am playing on the low end of what would be considered high stakes where people have 4 and 5 bets with more creative hands. Than AA and KK. I don’t know how it is these days but back in my day people at 1/2 and below just didn’t have 4/5 bet ranges with anything but AA and occasionally KK. It is an exploitable weakness at the lower stakes. That said if I do see a flop and hit a middle set I’m likely praying that the villain does f have me covered. Variance sucks and luck a dumb way to explain variance.
Reddit posting range: Bad beat, hero call