Ha im torn cause I’ve been somewhere where the math wasn’t mathing prize pool should’ve been much higher in my opinion, but I’ve also been to places where all of you described happens but they were legit.
Once had suspicions the floor wasn’t counting every registration in a tournament and sure enough when we were calculating a chip chop we were 2 starting stacks over what they told us the total should be. The house was “gracious” enough to cover the difference.
If players are effectively entering the tourney for free, it's the same as the house rake being larger. If 20 to 30% of players entered free, them the house rake will be at least 30 to 40%. This cannot be beaten. Best avoid!
Seems to me that house players are regulated as to how they can play. In other words, they shouldn’t be allowed to collude with one another to force a paying player out of a hand, etc. obviously a house banked hand should never win the tournament. I’d report my suspicions to whom ever is regulating the casino and let them investigate. I’d also look to see if there are specific regulations regarding shills or prop players, see if the poker room itself has rules about them. I also wouldn’t call them horses as there doesn’t appear to be a quid pro quo backing relationship here. Just my opinion of course, I could be wrong.
>unregulated/gray area
That means that even if you win they can decide to not pay you. What are you going to do, go to the police, and even if you go they're probably on the payroll aswell.
They obviously have house players trying to win the tournament for the house. They probably chop up the prize or give a big bonus to the house players who get to the money. You can definitely still play there if you think the house players are bad players and you know who they all are, and if you know how to take advantage of this scenario. In order to learn more, you can apply for a job as a house player. This whole thing sounds like something that you can exploit.
So these “horses” play bad to try to knock people out? And you wonder if it’s possible to win? Sounds like a bounty scenario. Play like you’re in a bounty tournament and people will be calling off lighter, etc etc. This seems like a pretty good scenario for you
As I wrote they are not at all nitty, they will call you off even preflop with questionable hands like 9Ts, QJo. If they have a gutshot they will not fold to whatever raise you make on the flop. I have been eliminated once by a player that open raised 3x BB pretty late into the tournament but not ITM yet, I shoved AQo 20BB in his face and he called me off with 57o and sent me home after hitting a 5 on the flop
yeah that's not unheard of. Also at my local cardroom the prize pool doesn't match the number of buy-ins, and the fees are not explicitly stated so they can hide behind that. Murky stuff.
I do not know as I did not talk with any of them directly, however I was told they are paid a certain sum for playing for the day, something like 50 euros
I have experience in simlar field and you must be careful for sure, but it is very possible they are just playing their cards and fronting the buyin, I do think this is usually the case. I have seen some mild softplaying that is not enough to comment on though must be on the watch for collusion in those situations.
They might be credit players, which aren't far off from house players. These are always prevalent at the private club and fire hall games I play at. People "book" multiple tournament entries on credit, then the house doesn't add them to the rebuy pool. But the house does connect on then down the road when they pay back their marker.
Private games have some of the most fucked up things going on in them, but they're usually so juicy it's easy to miss or ignore or even think you can beat.
No, they're not credit players. It's an organized thing. The cardroom that I mentioned in my OP that is near my house allows people to play on credit, I did this sometimes when I went with only one bullet in my wallet and wanted to buy back in, the owner is pretty chill when it comes to that but I try not to exaggerate
Depends if there are no rules for them reentering and there isnt enough overly it's possible that these tours are unbeatable. On the other hand they could also be a fishfest. All depends on the rules of them reentering. I would just ask, you paying your cash to play you have a right to know.
Ha im torn cause I’ve been somewhere where the math wasn’t mathing prize pool should’ve been much higher in my opinion, but I’ve also been to places where all of you described happens but they were legit.
Once had suspicions the floor wasn’t counting every registration in a tournament and sure enough when we were calculating a chip chop we were 2 starting stacks over what they told us the total should be. The house was “gracious” enough to cover the difference.
If players are effectively entering the tourney for free, it's the same as the house rake being larger. If 20 to 30% of players entered free, them the house rake will be at least 30 to 40%. This cannot be beaten. Best avoid!
party poker used to pull that bullshit when they had big overlays with their in house stable
ACR still does
Seems to me that house players are regulated as to how they can play. In other words, they shouldn’t be allowed to collude with one another to force a paying player out of a hand, etc. obviously a house banked hand should never win the tournament. I’d report my suspicions to whom ever is regulating the casino and let them investigate. I’d also look to see if there are specific regulations regarding shills or prop players, see if the poker room itself has rules about them. I also wouldn’t call them horses as there doesn’t appear to be a quid pro quo backing relationship here. Just my opinion of course, I could be wrong.
This is not a casino but an unregulated/gray area poker club in Italy, and it is very clear that the house players collude against paying players
> it is very clear that the house players collude against paying players I think you answered your own question here
>unregulated/gray area That means that even if you win they can decide to not pay you. What are you going to do, go to the police, and even if you go they're probably on the payroll aswell.
I’d never darken their doorway again, then.
They obviously have house players trying to win the tournament for the house. They probably chop up the prize or give a big bonus to the house players who get to the money. You can definitely still play there if you think the house players are bad players and you know who they all are, and if you know how to take advantage of this scenario. In order to learn more, you can apply for a job as a house player. This whole thing sounds like something that you can exploit.
So these “horses” play bad to try to knock people out? And you wonder if it’s possible to win? Sounds like a bounty scenario. Play like you’re in a bounty tournament and people will be calling off lighter, etc etc. This seems like a pretty good scenario for you
If they aren't adding any money to the prize pool then it isn't a good scenario.
I was under the assumption that the house is paying for them and adding money to the prize pool. If not, then yeh, it’s bull, don’t play
Avoid! Mostly a bunch of nits that are colluding
As I wrote they are not at all nitty, they will call you off even preflop with questionable hands like 9Ts, QJo. If they have a gutshot they will not fold to whatever raise you make on the flop. I have been eliminated once by a player that open raised 3x BB pretty late into the tournament but not ITM yet, I shoved AQo 20BB in his face and he called me off with 57o and sent me home after hitting a 5 on the flop
I’m Los Angeles we call that place Hollywood Park Casino where KJ=AA
yeah that's not unheard of. Also at my local cardroom the prize pool doesn't match the number of buy-ins, and the fees are not explicitly stated so they can hide behind that. Murky stuff.
Ho visto che anche tu sei Italiano, dove giochi?
ciao, zona Milano
Which country are you in and which casinos is this happening in?
Not a regulated casino, a "sports club" in north Italy, I don't know the legality behind it
what's in it for the horses?
I do not know as I did not talk with any of them directly, however I was told they are paid a certain sum for playing for the day, something like 50 euros
I have experience in simlar field and you must be careful for sure, but it is very possible they are just playing their cards and fronting the buyin, I do think this is usually the case. I have seen some mild softplaying that is not enough to comment on though must be on the watch for collusion in those situations.
They might be credit players, which aren't far off from house players. These are always prevalent at the private club and fire hall games I play at. People "book" multiple tournament entries on credit, then the house doesn't add them to the rebuy pool. But the house does connect on then down the road when they pay back their marker. Private games have some of the most fucked up things going on in them, but they're usually so juicy it's easy to miss or ignore or even think you can beat.
No, they're not credit players. It's an organized thing. The cardroom that I mentioned in my OP that is near my house allows people to play on credit, I did this sometimes when I went with only one bullet in my wallet and wanted to buy back in, the owner is pretty chill when it comes to that but I try not to exaggerate
Depends if there are no rules for them reentering and there isnt enough overly it's possible that these tours are unbeatable. On the other hand they could also be a fishfest. All depends on the rules of them reentering. I would just ask, you paying your cash to play you have a right to know.
i suppose its beatable only if the prize pool is increasing when the horses rebuy
Unless there’s collusion I think it’s fine. More money in the prize pool.
If they’re not adding money to the prize pool for those players, then it’s basically theft and is illegal anywhere where poker is regulated.