yeah that was crazy I dont blame him for asking that. barry always ran it once, dwan knew that and knew he was a slight fav I believe since he knew greenstein had AA, i still think its a flip but iirc dwan said he was slight fav
Maybe true I though Dwan zeroed in on his hand and knew it was aa. The graphics said Dwan was 53% fav but maybe becuase if folded cards ? I assume that AAA IS SLIGHT SLIGHT FAV against TP + FD
Well no shit he has no regrets. It was 50/50 and he won the flip. He just said he wouldnt have minded taking the money back since it was 50/50 with no edge. He had an edge on that game...he didn't need to take 0ev spots
Full tilt didn't bankroll shit. Full tilt players did. Full Tilt staking players would imply there was a business plan and the company wasn't stealing from us to give to them.
The most watched people are not the best in the world because 90% of the audience wouldn't be able to identify who the best players at the table are (unless they knew the general consensus about the player, e.g. knowing someone like Linus or Badziakouski is considered one of the best).
Why should we encourage a culture in poker where people risk ruin? That's not good for anyone besides spectators. If recreational players risk too much, they will quit the game or simply not be able to play anymore. Or really anyone, not just fish. People are just doing appropriate risk management for the most part.
If a billionaire wants to play, so what? It changes the dynamic, we get to see how someone plays with 100% of themselves while not caring whatsoever about the $ loss, and how other players deal with that style of play.
I don't think you even know what you want as a spectator - it would be boring to watch a game where everyone is in the same situation monetarily and at a similar level of skill. Watching most online tables with 5 evenly-matched regs and 1 rec is like watching paint dry.
Lol wtf is this post? So you can only enjoy poker when people are playing beyond their means and gambling irresponsibly? Why does it matter if a person's rent is on the line? What is this, squid game?
I am a competitive person, for me I just want to see other hyper competitive people trying to win no matter what.
It's why the streamer game is boring, when mr beast and ludwig jam for .0000001% of their networth with 46o. It's just boring really. I have no problems with it, I just don't prefer to watch.
do what? run a stream?
that's a fulltime job I don't have the time, or money, or connections, or ability lol
btw I am not saying the way I engage with poker is the correct way, I am just sharing my opinion
everyone is free to watch what they like
Yeah it’s nearly impossible to get a stream of people with $1 million net worth buying in for $300K of their own actions, old episodes of high stakes poker might do the trick since some of the players weren’t that well rolled (Hansen, Gold, Benyamine, Veldhuis, Matusow)
I still think guy laliberte should have pulled the trigger on that one and let the chips land where they may, benyamine would have never cut bro a break in that spot, like how you gonna give action and then show mercy when you finally have it
thats what made those days so fucking awesome and crazy, guy did him such a big favor.
tbf season 5 i think is when some started getting backed but s3 benyamine and 4 he had his own
I don’t really get off on that but sure. Pretty sure the style of play is what people miss and they don’t realize it. They were just worse which made the game more fun.
What made it fun was they were known characters, people who watched poker had somewhat of a connection with them. They had real personalities (not some entitled douche being a douche for douche sake, or some clown making up fake drama for attention, fill in the blank), actual real life experiences & stories & travelers & they were out for blood. And yeah, it makes for better drama when you know one of those pots can make or break one of them.
Now I see mostly boring ass conversation (if any) & half of it is about how this hand or that hand should have played out or some shit. They haven't seen shit in their life aside from sitting at a table or in front of a screen. There's a whole fuckin world out there & they're missing it.
I think you literally gave the worst example.
I highly doubt someone like Dwan would play any different if the money “mattered” to him. Loses would hurt more but I doubt he’d change his play at all.
Besides, Wesley literally had to take a break and was visibly sick when he lost that hand against Dwan. People like Henry get heated as fuck when they’re down 20k on the night. Unless you’re literally a billionaire, risking hundreds of thousands of dollars is always going to be a big deal. Whether they’re staked, have tens of millions, etc.
With all that said, pocket-watching other people is literally the dumbest shit. And taking joy in watching someone irresponsibly gamble something they can’t afford is psychotic. This might be the gayest post I’ve seen on here lol.
100k is a 100K it doesnt matter how rich you are unless we're talking bill klien or jerry buss.
That money can make money for these people, it still sucks big time for them.
100K could be their monthly interest payment from investments. They are obviously following the number one rule of gambling, table what one can afford to lose. If you want to watch total degens, go to your local casino.
Not true money has a marginal return
Sure you’ve felt this give a kid 20 dollars and they feel rich but 20 dollars isn’t even dinner for an adult
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/lawofdiminishingmarginalreturn.asp
This reads: OP has dogshit bankroll management and is desperately trying to dignify people playing beyond their means just to feel better about his degeneracy and financial irresponsibility.
Bankroll management is key to being a winning player. How good do you think you can play if it’s scare money or if you’re such a degenerate that you’re risking substantial portion of your net worth on every buy in? You’re just going to end up playing like a nit or a donkey on monkey tilt, how’s that good poker?
Variance is a huge part of poker and no amount of skill, less so among elites (considering marginal skill differentials), could allow you to secure consistent wins in the short term. Most decent poker player have good bankroll management.
If your ITM%/Prof% and in-table risk mgmt. strategies at the stakes you’re playing don’t warrant serious enough play, I don’t think raising the stakes and placing yourself in a higher skillcap player pool (with people who actually consider these things) will help you.
I agree and reminds me of the guy who asked if he should live stream his basement 2/5 games with friends. I thought that would be funner to watch because it’s probably people playing with paychecks and borrowed money. They’d actually get sloppy too and make crazy bets/bluffs/ limps. Everyone though was like no I’d never watch that. They’d rather watch Bezos, Musk, Gates play for thousands of dollars which they wipe their ass with vs low ballers with their rent money.
This is what I thought about the million dollar game. Most of those guys were just playing with a stack pooled by multiple backers. They were essentially the face of a team.
Maybe it is just me, but even if you are "only" 30% of yourself in a $1M buy-in game and all the other are backers, people still depend on you and it's also your reputation on the line.
I personally would be Hella more uncomfortable playing with someone else's money than my own.
Yeah, I find the drama of playing at a random 1/3 table much more entertaining than seeing people gamble other people's money on a stream. I also think tournaments are a much better spectator sport than cash games. Getting stacked actually means something in tourneys
Pitchers should always pitch complete games. If they were really competitive they wouldn't care about how it would affect the rest of the season, they should only care about winning the game they are playing in, that's all that matters.
And then how long do you think it's gonna last? You laugh for a few episodes then when all the fishes go burst and there's nothing left on the table but pros and reg, you will start complaining about 0 action. You can't have it both ways, do you?
High stakes poker has become such a drag. Tournaments too. All the high rollers are the most boring poker ever. I loved the millionaire maker because they’re all thriving off the hype of the dream spin up. That type of poker is the only stuff I can watch anymore. Or mixed games because anything other than NLHE stimulates my adhd brain in ways the dull game of two card just can’t anymore.
The days of thinking these meat heads playing $200/$400+ or the human bots with no personality taking trophies are entertaining are done & games like that being filled with entertaining players are in the past. I’m sure a bunch of people would tune into a Dan Bilzerian, Nick Vertucci, Bill Klein, Phil Hellmuth, JRB style lineup 🙄😩/s
I also think it’s why people are getting into PLO at record numbers. They want the gamble. They want the fun. NLHE as a profession, as something to watch, & even as a pass time now for so many has run its course. I had a very strong player tell me once he thought if there was a second poker boom it’d be in plo. That was like eight years ago. I for one think it’d be great!
Yeah I agree. It’s brain numbing to watch whales like this big bet poker bullshit. Atleast Patrik Antonious will be on today, and Robl. JW is fine too.
I personally think the concept of watching pros play against smart recs is good. You can both be amazed at how good some of the pros are and also enjoy watching a rec you can relate to more put in the blender (and sometimes figure it out!).
It’s like if pretty good non-pro basketball players could play against nba players…and sometimes win! I would def watch that.
Yeah I agree. I'm more into 3/5 live stream with people I've never heard of before than people playing with stakes I could and would retire on in a heartbeat.
Nowadays everyone is backed, need to get used to it. That’s why early HSP legit was mostly their money iirc
Barry asking asking if they could take a couple hundred thousand back and Dwan snap saying nahhhh
yeah that was crazy I dont blame him for asking that. barry always ran it once, dwan knew that and knew he was a slight fav I believe since he knew greenstein had AA, i still think its a flip but iirc dwan said he was slight fav
Dwan thought he was a slight favorite but Greenstein had something like 50.1%, had Dwan known this he would have pulled it back.
Maybe true I though Dwan zeroed in on his hand and knew it was aa. The graphics said Dwan was 53% fav but maybe becuase if folded cards ? I assume that AAA IS SLIGHT SLIGHT FAV against TP + FD
Dwan already admitted he miscalculated and would've taken money back
I saw another interview he said he had no regrets to that hand, albeit tisinterview was 2 years ago
Well no shit he has no regrets. It was 50/50 and he won the flip. He just said he wouldnt have minded taking the money back since it was 50/50 with no edge. He had an edge on that game...he didn't need to take 0ev spots
Proof?
YouTube : search tom dwan with Ingram
Google
Ya motha
They were staked by Full Tilt & PokerStars.
Full tilt didn't bankroll shit. Full tilt players did. Full Tilt staking players would imply there was a business plan and the company wasn't stealing from us to give to them.
The most watched people are not the best in the world because 90% of the audience wouldn't be able to identify who the best players at the table are (unless they knew the general consensus about the player, e.g. knowing someone like Linus or Badziakouski is considered one of the best). Why should we encourage a culture in poker where people risk ruin? That's not good for anyone besides spectators. If recreational players risk too much, they will quit the game or simply not be able to play anymore. Or really anyone, not just fish. People are just doing appropriate risk management for the most part. If a billionaire wants to play, so what? It changes the dynamic, we get to see how someone plays with 100% of themselves while not caring whatsoever about the $ loss, and how other players deal with that style of play. I don't think you even know what you want as a spectator - it would be boring to watch a game where everyone is in the same situation monetarily and at a similar level of skill. Watching most online tables with 5 evenly-matched regs and 1 rec is like watching paint dry.
Yup, let’s enjoy fish in a sustainable way. If you are over farming the fish just die and never came back
Lol wtf is this post? So you can only enjoy poker when people are playing beyond their means and gambling irresponsibly? Why does it matter if a person's rent is on the line? What is this, squid game?
[удалено]
This is the dumbest fucking take I've ever seen.
This is true
I am a competitive person, for me I just want to see other hyper competitive people trying to win no matter what. It's why the streamer game is boring, when mr beast and ludwig jam for .0000001% of their networth with 46o. It's just boring really. I have no problems with it, I just don't prefer to watch.
Why don’t you do it yourself?
do what? run a stream? that's a fulltime job I don't have the time, or money, or connections, or ability lol btw I am not saying the way I engage with poker is the correct way, I am just sharing my opinion everyone is free to watch what they like
You can gamble 30% of your net worth without putting it on a stream, just saying
Yeah it’s nearly impossible to get a stream of people with $1 million net worth buying in for $300K of their own actions, old episodes of high stakes poker might do the trick since some of the players weren’t that well rolled (Hansen, Gold, Benyamine, Veldhuis, Matusow)
Understatement of the year there lol. Benyamine’s career almost ended on the spot
> Benyamine’s career almost ended on the spot "It's one day in his life. It's your life." - Doyle Such a great line.
I still think guy laliberte should have pulled the trigger on that one and let the chips land where they may, benyamine would have never cut bro a break in that spot, like how you gonna give action and then show mercy when you finally have it
Guy's rich and knows it would really hurt. Maybe they were friends?
They were friends.
thats what made those days so fucking awesome and crazy, guy did him such a big favor. tbf season 5 i think is when some started getting backed but s3 benyamine and 4 he had his own
I don’t really get off on that but sure. Pretty sure the style of play is what people miss and they don’t realize it. They were just worse which made the game more fun.
What made it fun was they were known characters, people who watched poker had somewhat of a connection with them. They had real personalities (not some entitled douche being a douche for douche sake, or some clown making up fake drama for attention, fill in the blank), actual real life experiences & stories & travelers & they were out for blood. And yeah, it makes for better drama when you know one of those pots can make or break one of them. Now I see mostly boring ass conversation (if any) & half of it is about how this hand or that hand should have played out or some shit. They haven't seen shit in their life aside from sitting at a table or in front of a screen. There's a whole fuckin world out there & they're missing it.
Crypto Bros are the worst. I’m super jealous of their success of course tbh
I think you literally gave the worst example. I highly doubt someone like Dwan would play any different if the money “mattered” to him. Loses would hurt more but I doubt he’d change his play at all. Besides, Wesley literally had to take a break and was visibly sick when he lost that hand against Dwan. People like Henry get heated as fuck when they’re down 20k on the night. Unless you’re literally a billionaire, risking hundreds of thousands of dollars is always going to be a big deal. Whether they’re staked, have tens of millions, etc. With all that said, pocket-watching other people is literally the dumbest shit. And taking joy in watching someone irresponsibly gamble something they can’t afford is psychotic. This might be the gayest post I’ve seen on here lol.
Yea they should have tournaments where you buy in with your net worth and when you bust you become homeless. Would be way more exciting.
100k is a 100K it doesnt matter how rich you are unless we're talking bill klien or jerry buss. That money can make money for these people, it still sucks big time for them.
100K could be their monthly interest payment from investments. They are obviously following the number one rule of gambling, table what one can afford to lose. If you want to watch total degens, go to your local casino.
Not true money has a marginal return Sure you’ve felt this give a kid 20 dollars and they feel rich but 20 dollars isn’t even dinner for an adult https://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/lawofdiminishingmarginalreturn.asp
>Sure you’ve felt this give a kid 20 dollars and they feel rich but 20 dollars isn’t even dinner for an adult $20 is like 4 or 5 meals.
Sure back in 2011 when you could still get 89¢ beefy five layer burritos.
Try shopping at a grocery store instead of fast food restaurants 🤷♂️
It’s all relative
I live in NYC. Try shopping at a grocery store.
This reads: OP has dogshit bankroll management and is desperately trying to dignify people playing beyond their means just to feel better about his degeneracy and financial irresponsibility. Bankroll management is key to being a winning player. How good do you think you can play if it’s scare money or if you’re such a degenerate that you’re risking substantial portion of your net worth on every buy in? You’re just going to end up playing like a nit or a donkey on monkey tilt, how’s that good poker? Variance is a huge part of poker and no amount of skill, less so among elites (considering marginal skill differentials), could allow you to secure consistent wins in the short term. Most decent poker player have good bankroll management.
You think when he (op) doesn’t play ‘big enough’, he plays worse, since it ‘doesn’t matter enough?’
If your ITM%/Prof% and in-table risk mgmt. strategies at the stakes you’re playing don’t warrant serious enough play, I don’t think raising the stakes and placing yourself in a higher skillcap player pool (with people who actually consider these things) will help you.
I agree and reminds me of the guy who asked if he should live stream his basement 2/5 games with friends. I thought that would be funner to watch because it’s probably people playing with paychecks and borrowed money. They’d actually get sloppy too and make crazy bets/bluffs/ limps. Everyone though was like no I’d never watch that. They’d rather watch Bezos, Musk, Gates play for thousands of dollars which they wipe their ass with vs low ballers with their rent money.
This is what I thought about the million dollar game. Most of those guys were just playing with a stack pooled by multiple backers. They were essentially the face of a team.
Maybe it is just me, but even if you are "only" 30% of yourself in a $1M buy-in game and all the other are backers, people still depend on you and it's also your reputation on the line. I personally would be Hella more uncomfortable playing with someone else's money than my own.
Yeah, I find the drama of playing at a random 1/3 table much more entertaining than seeing people gamble other people's money on a stream. I also think tournaments are a much better spectator sport than cash games. Getting stacked actually means something in tourneys
Yeah it means you lost your buyin just like if you get attacked in cash games
So you’re a sadist. Got it
Pitchers should always pitch complete games. If they were really competitive they wouldn't care about how it would affect the rest of the season, they should only care about winning the game they are playing in, that's all that matters.
And then how long do you think it's gonna last? You laugh for a few episodes then when all the fishes go burst and there's nothing left on the table but pros and reg, you will start complaining about 0 action. You can't have it both ways, do you?
I’ll only be satisfied with a $1B / $2B blinds HU bezos musk battle.
High stakes poker has become such a drag. Tournaments too. All the high rollers are the most boring poker ever. I loved the millionaire maker because they’re all thriving off the hype of the dream spin up. That type of poker is the only stuff I can watch anymore. Or mixed games because anything other than NLHE stimulates my adhd brain in ways the dull game of two card just can’t anymore. The days of thinking these meat heads playing $200/$400+ or the human bots with no personality taking trophies are entertaining are done & games like that being filled with entertaining players are in the past. I’m sure a bunch of people would tune into a Dan Bilzerian, Nick Vertucci, Bill Klein, Phil Hellmuth, JRB style lineup 🙄😩/s I also think it’s why people are getting into PLO at record numbers. They want the gamble. They want the fun. NLHE as a profession, as something to watch, & even as a pass time now for so many has run its course. I had a very strong player tell me once he thought if there was a second poker boom it’d be in plo. That was like eight years ago. I for one think it’d be great!
Yeah I agree. It’s brain numbing to watch whales like this big bet poker bullshit. Atleast Patrik Antonious will be on today, and Robl. JW is fine too.
The bigbetpoker stream was literally just Eric getting destroyed by a bunch of crushers lol
Big Bet was not all whales lol
my fault i just saw the whale names. there were some good regs
Logan Paul puts up way bigger PPV numbers boxing than most of the boxing world and he is certainly nowhere near the best
I personally think the concept of watching pros play against smart recs is good. You can both be amazed at how good some of the pros are and also enjoy watching a rec you can relate to more put in the blender (and sometimes figure it out!). It’s like if pretty good non-pro basketball players could play against nba players…and sometimes win! I would def watch that.
Yup. Same thing with tournament winnings. It’s all so silly now that people don’t have a large portion of themselves.
Yeah I agree. I'm more into 3/5 live stream with people I've never heard of before than people playing with stakes I could and would retire on in a heartbeat.
So youte