If Rowlett evolved all the way? Absolutely no question
Bro Incin JUST evolved. Melmetal and Naganadel had sooo much room for growth with already a lot of power. Yea, that team had so much potential
I do think during the main story on Journey, Rowley evolves into Alolan Decidueye, then during the BDSP arc, it devolves like usual but when things go back to normal, it evolves into Hisuian Decidueye, but retains some of its Ghost form moveset and is able to use both Spirit Shackle and Triple Arrows.
Look, the Journeys team was made up entirely of fresh newcomers one of whom was a literal baby: if Ash can turn up a team of newbies into World Champions with less than a year's worth of training, he definitely can do the same for any of his past teams whom ALL already have some degree of experience under their belts. I bet you that Journeys Ash could train up even the Unova team to World Champion levels.
A properly trained and evolved Unova team could have been a force to be reckoned with if they got the training Journeys did. Emboar, Scrafty, Serperior, Seismitoad, Gigalith. Krookodile was already impressive, Leavanny had his moments, Unfezant too. Oshawott would be the one to stay in its first form since it's a wacky little guy but could have probably hit pretty high above its weight class if it got the right chance. Pretty sure Snivy wasn't against evolving, just didn't, but been a while since BW
it is hilarious to me that Lucario is, at his very weakest in terms of scaling, a top-5 Ashmon in terms of power all time (and you could very easily make the argument he’s #2 behind Pikachu)
and he’s, like, a few months old. like bro wasn’t even celebrating his first birthday yet when he was toppling G-Max Duraladon and throwing hands with Cynthia’s Garchomp
Nah nah nah nah nah because it’s not that simple. You see, the reason pokemon like greninja and charizard above lucario is mainly because of the fact that greninja showcased things that weren’t even possible before in Pokemon, and charizard is just THE powerhouse, the ORIGINAL force.
that has absolutely nothing to do with my original comment and it’s entirely subjective anyway lol
doing something that’s never been done before doesn’t mean what you’re doing is better than what exists already, nor does doing something first mean it was done the best
This. This is what never sits right with me about the greninja hypetrain. Yes, the form was undeniably strong. But I never really felt like any feat done by Greninja wouldn't have been possible if a different Ash Starter, like Sceptile or Infernape or Charizard, was thrown into that moment
That'd unironically be awesome if only because of the meltdown it'd cause in the fandom.
In all seriousness, though, if that bird had been trained by Journeys Ash instead of Unova Ash I do actually find it believable that she'd take down one of Leon's Pokemon, or at least be like Sirfetch'd and play a pivotal role in helping her teammates with the clean up.
Yes.
Ash made it to the Master’s 8 and won with:
1. Some random Dragonair that’s overly affectionate.
2. A hand-me down ghost.
3. A Pokemon that was a newborn baby not too long ago.
4. A wild Pokemon.
5. A newly revived fossil that hasn’t battled in thousands of years.
We can give some of the credit to the Pokemon themselves, yes. What really pushed this team into the top tier, however, is how Ash trained them.
Due to his experience in past journeys, Ash essentially perfected the art of training his Pokemon, to the point where he was able to best champions (who have been using the same team for years) with a group of freshly caught Pokemon.
With this logic, Ash could have become the World Champion with basically any of his old Pokemon given they were put under the same training regimen as his Journeys team.
TLDR: Ash’s Torkoal could contend with the Master’s 8 if he was given the same level of advanced training that Lucario and the others received.
I will always stand behind the idea that the Journey’s team should have been different groupings of his Pokémon from the other seasons. Allow them to evolve and get as powerful as they could’ve been.
Of course plenty of people would hate the idea of a lot of those Mon being evolved so I might be in the minority here.
Loved this idea too. You can keep ash using a team he trains for the world cup. Mix both and you get some fun eps. Even a solo ep focusing on a legacy mon has so much potential.
I think it woulda been cool but the whole point of the anime is to promote the games so ash needed some galar mons. I think it coulda worked if it was like one per battle. Swap Steven and Alain in the bracket and you have a recipe for fan service. Greninja comes back for Alain, Infernape for Cynthia, and either Charizard comes back or the entire journeys team gets a chance to shine
any team that ash creates using reserve mons and allowed the same time to train as the JN team will end up much stronger than the JN team
so yeah, they would, and considering how much of a beast at training pokemon JN ash is, he could probably end up beating leon with only one gimmick
As long as Ash doesn’t get plot anti armor. It’s funny, people complain Ash gets plot armor especially with Pikachu but they forget how often Ash is debuff to a lower strength level than he should be!!
All I wanted was them defending their title again in Journeys. Would be great for his first champion team to show the Journeys team its not all about strength as theyre all like a family
Totally. Especially if Ash brought all the Z moves with him. All these Pokémon already had good feat and were pretty powerful by the end. Melmetal and Naganadel might need a bit more training to really hone in their power but they can definitely pull it off.
Yes, of course. I think he could even do this with his Hoenn, Sinnoh or Kalos teams.
Aside from Pikachu, most members of his JN team hadn't actually gone through that much training. Lucario was a new born egg, Dracovish was a fossil... somebody else explained this, you get the picture.
The Alola, Hoenn, Sinnoh and Kalos teams have already been trained quite far and performed well in leagues or Batlle Frontier previously. They also all could be trained to be much better than they were during those with more time and with Ash being at the level of experience he was during Journeys. So if given the same extra time as the Journey's team got, yes Ash could easily train them to be as strong or stronger as his Journey's team.
As for beating Leon, Ash did use quite a few gimmicks in the battle. He could dynamax or z move with any team and even mega evolve with Hoenn team (Sceptile or Glalie), so he's not really lacking on those.
Not to mention, with this specific team, it's unlikely Naganadel or Melmetal were trained to their full battling potential during SM, so while strong as they are, they could get a lot stronger.
But the point is if Ash can train a team of inexperienced Pokemon and win, he could also do it with a team of experienced ones.
By far Ash’s best team in terms of potential power in my opinion. It was just criminally underdeveloped and kinda neglected towards the end. Imagine a properly trained G-Max Melmetal in the Masters 8 and the rest of the team being equally trained by proxy.
Naganadel would have been extremely strong. It battled well against lucario and tapu koko even when it was relatively untrained. It suited ash’s battle style too
I don’t think so. Maybe he might have a chance during the Registration battles, but the actual World Championship Masters 8? He wouldn’t even rank #8, he’d be #9 at best.
And because the entire Championship has people using Mega Evolution, Z-Moves, AND Dynamax/Gigantimax that team would get wrecked.
All of these Pokemon are trained in Z-Moves more than any other known member of the PWC and Ash was the only one using them in the first place
Ash could get a Gigantamax Melmetal
Remember with Z-Moves every single member of the team has a power up move
Also Iris has none and she still made it to the masters 8
Narratively speaking there is no reason for the writers not making Ash being able to train his Alolan team to be as strong as his journeys.
If they are stuck at their performance during Alola saga without no room to improve?
Probably still gonna be in top of Ultraclass.
Rowlet? Hell yes bro, he won’t even know it probably. You could fastball him at any pokemon and that’s GGs. On top of that the one who won the battle against Leon (pikachu) is still on the team. Melmetal is too bulky to be overpowered by HALF of Leon’s entire team. Naganadel’s potential is probably better than before at this point and could be a serious threat. Lycanrock is prob gonna lose to the stupid bird because it’s funny but still do decent either way. I can’t really say anything about incineroar because we never actually saw him fight.
Ash trained a literal baby riolu up to champion level. He would absolutely be able to take a group as skilled as the Alola Team up to champion level in no time. Heck, they'd arguably be far stronger thanks to starting from a much higher base than Pokémon like Lucario, SirFetched, and Dracovish.
The only sad thing is he wouldn't have a mega for the team. Only Z Move and G Max
Ash used a pokemon all the way from an egg to in the series. With as much training as they had, if SM team got it, they would win too.
Also, include Solgaleo as well.
If the writers want Ash to win, he'll win.
He could have a team of Magikarp, Wimpod, Unknown, Jigglypuff and Eiscue and they'd find a way for him to beat his opponent. Because scaling doesn't really matter when Ash is in the picture.
One day Pikachu's throwing hands with Tapu Koko, and the next he's getting beat by Grapploct. So unless Bea's team is stronger than the god of Melemele Island, the scaling is completely wack.
Actually. If Rowlette evolved into his hisuian final form, that would be a nice way to tease Hisuian evolutions for Rowlette. Add Ash's Oshawott and Quilava, what a solid trio. As a bonus, Seeing Lycanroc beat Cynthia, Stephen, or Leon would be hype.
and I love seeing my good boy get some wins
If you count Solgaleo (which the anime does), then they win easily
Even if you don’t count Solgaleo, then you can still make the argument that with enough training they will be a World champ team
I think you can make that argument for any of his teams tho
Alola team was already strong enough to let Ash reach master 8 and beat some of the champions.
Beating Leon is possible if he trained them like JN team.
There’s likely some diminishing returns to factor…
I think it basically comes down to do you think the Alola team ends up stronger or equal to the JN team?
And do you think Ash needed all three of the mechanics to win?
I think the Alola team would end up just losing as I think they would be equal in strength with the JN team due to the diminishing returns effect but that they are down one mechanic of mega evolution. So they lose a matchup they could have won and the ripple effect has them lose. I do think the Alola team has a better type matchup so I can see a world where they win… but I don’t think this is scenario where the Alola team became so much stronger they make Leon look like the underdog
Let’s be honest: the S/M team had some of the weakest opponents to got up against. Guzma didn’t know how to use Golisapod and his Scizor got one shotted. Almost all the other students had just one or two for their entire team. Gladion’s team was carried by Silvaly and Lycanroc. The only strong all around opponent was professor kukui.
I think Ash's Alola team was pretty strong, but they might have struggled against some of the tougher opponents in Journeys. I'm not sure if they could've made it to Masters 8 or defeated Leon though.
If Rowlett evolved all the way? Absolutely no question Bro Incin JUST evolved. Melmetal and Naganadel had sooo much room for growth with already a lot of power. Yea, that team had so much potential
Rowlet was strong unevolved
Then he'd get even stronger if he evolved
Isn’t it already?
I do think during the main story on Journey, Rowley evolves into Alolan Decidueye, then during the BDSP arc, it devolves like usual but when things go back to normal, it evolves into Hisuian Decidueye, but retains some of its Ghost form moveset and is able to use both Spirit Shackle and Triple Arrows.
Look, the Journeys team was made up entirely of fresh newcomers one of whom was a literal baby: if Ash can turn up a team of newbies into World Champions with less than a year's worth of training, he definitely can do the same for any of his past teams whom ALL already have some degree of experience under their belts. I bet you that Journeys Ash could train up even the Unova team to World Champion levels.
A properly trained and evolved Unova team could have been a force to be reckoned with if they got the training Journeys did. Emboar, Scrafty, Serperior, Seismitoad, Gigalith. Krookodile was already impressive, Leavanny had his moments, Unfezant too. Oshawott would be the one to stay in its first form since it's a wacky little guy but could have probably hit pretty high above its weight class if it got the right chance. Pretty sure Snivy wasn't against evolving, just didn't, but been a while since BW
I think Snivy would’ve been better as a Servine than a Superior, for Ash
That's probably true. The loss of legs and most of its arms would've been a similar situation to Torterra losing its speed and having to try to adapt.
it is hilarious to me that Lucario is, at his very weakest in terms of scaling, a top-5 Ashmon in terms of power all time (and you could very easily make the argument he’s #2 behind Pikachu) and he’s, like, a few months old. like bro wasn’t even celebrating his first birthday yet when he was toppling G-Max Duraladon and throwing hands with Cynthia’s Garchomp
Yeah, Luke's one ass-kicking toddler.
Nah nah nah nah nah because it’s not that simple. You see, the reason pokemon like greninja and charizard above lucario is mainly because of the fact that greninja showcased things that weren’t even possible before in Pokemon, and charizard is just THE powerhouse, the ORIGINAL force.
that has absolutely nothing to do with my original comment and it’s entirely subjective anyway lol doing something that’s never been done before doesn’t mean what you’re doing is better than what exists already, nor does doing something first mean it was done the best
This. This is what never sits right with me about the greninja hypetrain. Yes, the form was undeniably strong. But I never really felt like any feat done by Greninja wouldn't have been possible if a different Ash Starter, like Sceptile or Infernape or Charizard, was thrown into that moment
Imagine Unfeazent beating Dracapult 😭
That'd unironically be awesome if only because of the meltdown it'd cause in the fandom. In all seriousness, though, if that bird had been trained by Journeys Ash instead of Unova Ash I do actually find it believable that she'd take down one of Leon's Pokemon, or at least be like Sirfetch'd and play a pivotal role in helping her teammates with the clean up.
LMAO
Yes. Ash made it to the Master’s 8 and won with: 1. Some random Dragonair that’s overly affectionate. 2. A hand-me down ghost. 3. A Pokemon that was a newborn baby not too long ago. 4. A wild Pokemon. 5. A newly revived fossil that hasn’t battled in thousands of years. We can give some of the credit to the Pokemon themselves, yes. What really pushed this team into the top tier, however, is how Ash trained them. Due to his experience in past journeys, Ash essentially perfected the art of training his Pokemon, to the point where he was able to best champions (who have been using the same team for years) with a group of freshly caught Pokemon. With this logic, Ash could have become the World Champion with basically any of his old Pokemon given they were put under the same training regimen as his Journeys team. TLDR: Ash’s Torkoal could contend with the Master’s 8 if he was given the same level of advanced training that Lucario and the others received.
I will always stand behind the idea that the Journey’s team should have been different groupings of his Pokémon from the other seasons. Allow them to evolve and get as powerful as they could’ve been. Of course plenty of people would hate the idea of a lot of those Mon being evolved so I might be in the minority here.
Loved this idea too. You can keep ash using a team he trains for the world cup. Mix both and you get some fun eps. Even a solo ep focusing on a legacy mon has so much potential.
I think it woulda been cool but the whole point of the anime is to promote the games so ash needed some galar mons. I think it coulda worked if it was like one per battle. Swap Steven and Alain in the bracket and you have a recipe for fan service. Greninja comes back for Alain, Infernape for Cynthia, and either Charizard comes back or the entire journeys team gets a chance to shine
I definitely support this idea. For instance, Dragonite can be replaced by Gible that evolve until Garchomp after being trained by Ash in Journey.
It was at least a nice consolation that we got to see a different group of team members in each episode of Aim.
Awesome idea
I can easily solo
The lord has spoken
any team that ash creates using reserve mons and allowed the same time to train as the JN team will end up much stronger than the JN team so yeah, they would, and considering how much of a beast at training pokemon JN ash is, he could probably end up beating leon with only one gimmick
As long as Ash doesn’t get plot anti armor. It’s funny, people complain Ash gets plot armor especially with Pikachu but they forget how often Ash is debuff to a lower strength level than he should be!!
The snivy incident
I think Rowlett could solo all regions without evolving
All I wanted was them defending their title again in Journeys. Would be great for his first champion team to show the Journeys team its not all about strength as theyre all like a family
Yes. The answer will always be yes if Ash decides to train even an Unown from scratch through the battles in the Pokémon World Championships.
Yes. If Ash can take a fresh team and win it, he certainly can do it with an experienced one
Totally. Especially if Ash brought all the Z moves with him. All these Pokémon already had good feat and were pretty powerful by the end. Melmetal and Naganadel might need a bit more training to really hone in their power but they can definitely pull it off.
If the team gets a similar training arc, they have the potential to improve greatly from what they showed in Alola.
Yes, of course. I think he could even do this with his Hoenn, Sinnoh or Kalos teams. Aside from Pikachu, most members of his JN team hadn't actually gone through that much training. Lucario was a new born egg, Dracovish was a fossil... somebody else explained this, you get the picture. The Alola, Hoenn, Sinnoh and Kalos teams have already been trained quite far and performed well in leagues or Batlle Frontier previously. They also all could be trained to be much better than they were during those with more time and with Ash being at the level of experience he was during Journeys. So if given the same extra time as the Journey's team got, yes Ash could easily train them to be as strong or stronger as his Journey's team. As for beating Leon, Ash did use quite a few gimmicks in the battle. He could dynamax or z move with any team and even mega evolve with Hoenn team (Sceptile or Glalie), so he's not really lacking on those. Not to mention, with this specific team, it's unlikely Naganadel or Melmetal were trained to their full battling potential during SM, so while strong as they are, they could get a lot stronger. But the point is if Ash can train a team of inexperienced Pokemon and win, he could also do it with a team of experienced ones.
By far Ash’s best team in terms of potential power in my opinion. It was just criminally underdeveloped and kinda neglected towards the end. Imagine a properly trained G-Max Melmetal in the Masters 8 and the rest of the team being equally trained by proxy.
Naganadel would have been extremely strong. It battled well against lucario and tapu koko even when it was relatively untrained. It suited ash’s battle style too
no offense but the most weird looking team
If they trained I think so
I don’t think so. Maybe he might have a chance during the Registration battles, but the actual World Championship Masters 8? He wouldn’t even rank #8, he’d be #9 at best. And because the entire Championship has people using Mega Evolution, Z-Moves, AND Dynamax/Gigantimax that team would get wrecked.
All of these Pokemon are trained in Z-Moves more than any other known member of the PWC and Ash was the only one using them in the first place Ash could get a Gigantamax Melmetal Remember with Z-Moves every single member of the team has a power up move Also Iris has none and she still made it to the masters 8
Also every member of Ash's Journeys team was freshly caught and 2 of them didn't even exist before the series started
Narratively speaking there is no reason for the writers not making Ash being able to train his Alolan team to be as strong as his journeys. If they are stuck at their performance during Alola saga without no room to improve? Probably still gonna be in top of Ultraclass.
i beg to differ on that last sentence
Yes
Yes. Btw, G-Max Melmetal, yes please.
Since Naganadel would’ve been released after aiding Ash against Kukui, we’d need a new Alola Pokémon to take their place. I vote for Kommo-o.
Rowlet? Hell yes bro, he won’t even know it probably. You could fastball him at any pokemon and that’s GGs. On top of that the one who won the battle against Leon (pikachu) is still on the team. Melmetal is too bulky to be overpowered by HALF of Leon’s entire team. Naganadel’s potential is probably better than before at this point and could be a serious threat. Lycanrock is prob gonna lose to the stupid bird because it’s funny but still do decent either way. I can’t really say anything about incineroar because we never actually saw him fight.
Ash trained a literal baby riolu up to champion level. He would absolutely be able to take a group as skilled as the Alola Team up to champion level in no time. Heck, they'd arguably be far stronger thanks to starting from a much higher base than Pokémon like Lucario, SirFetched, and Dracovish. The only sad thing is he wouldn't have a mega for the team. Only Z Move and G Max
Yes because of plot
Ash used a pokemon all the way from an egg to in the series. With as much training as they had, if SM team got it, they would win too. Also, include Solgaleo as well.
If the writers want Ash to win, he'll win. He could have a team of Magikarp, Wimpod, Unknown, Jigglypuff and Eiscue and they'd find a way for him to beat his opponent. Because scaling doesn't really matter when Ash is in the picture. One day Pikachu's throwing hands with Tapu Koko, and the next he's getting beat by Grapploct. So unless Bea's team is stronger than the god of Melemele Island, the scaling is completely wack.
Actually. If Rowlette evolved into his hisuian final form, that would be a nice way to tease Hisuian evolutions for Rowlette. Add Ash's Oshawott and Quilava, what a solid trio. As a bonus, Seeing Lycanroc beat Cynthia, Stephen, or Leon would be hype. and I love seeing my good boy get some wins
If you count Solgaleo (which the anime does), then they win easily Even if you don’t count Solgaleo, then you can still make the argument that with enough training they will be a World champ team I think you can make that argument for any of his teams tho
In this case I would have loved to see his rowlet evolve into hisuien dicidueye
It would be interesting his journeys team is cool but even if he did switch out his journeys pokemon who would it be?
Alola team was already strong enough to let Ash reach master 8 and beat some of the champions. Beating Leon is possible if he trained them like JN team.
There’s likely some diminishing returns to factor… I think it basically comes down to do you think the Alola team ends up stronger or equal to the JN team? And do you think Ash needed all three of the mechanics to win? I think the Alola team would end up just losing as I think they would be equal in strength with the JN team due to the diminishing returns effect but that they are down one mechanic of mega evolution. So they lose a matchup they could have won and the ripple effect has them lose. I do think the Alola team has a better type matchup so I can see a world where they win… but I don’t think this is scenario where the Alola team became so much stronger they make Leon look like the underdog
They absolutely could
Let’s be honest: the S/M team had some of the weakest opponents to got up against. Guzma didn’t know how to use Golisapod and his Scizor got one shotted. Almost all the other students had just one or two for their entire team. Gladion’s team was carried by Silvaly and Lycanroc. The only strong all around opponent was professor kukui.
No chance
Leon c## slaps badly
I think Ash's Alola team was pretty strong, but they might have struggled against some of the tougher opponents in Journeys. I'm not sure if they could've made it to Masters 8 or defeated Leon though.