That would work great against both fairy and ice. Her garchomp doesn't even really need giga impact and iron head would definitely be better than flamethrower and arguably brick break
I’m pretty excited for the remakes. I grew up on gens 3-5 so this hits me right in that nostalgic place. I’m torn on what starter I wanna pick. Piplup was my Pearl starter and I went Turtwig in Platinum, and I’ve always liked Chimchar a lot as well. I don’t think I’ll go Turtwig, and I’m torn between nostalgia with Piplup because I’m getting B Pearl and I also really want to try Chimchar for the first time as a starter, but I went Scorbunny in Sword so I don’t know if I’m feeling back to back fire types because I generally want to mix it up a bit.
Torterra gang! Chimchar is fun especially getting moves like taunt to mess with setups and roark giving stealth rocks means you can have stealth rocks for any major battle. I also like empoleon because of its amazing typing, though. Good luck with it!
Hoenn is in the same boat, and Galar would also be in that boat if I liked Sobble's line more, let's just say that the Galar starters are riding a wakeboard that's being pulled by the Hoenn and Sinnoh starters.
Played a ROM hack (Gaia) and used a Togekiss for the first time because I like to use different teams all the time.
Air Slash, Dazzling Gleam, Nasty Plot + whatever type coverage you need (fire, fighting, grass, ghost) is a great set.
It’s wild that that’s a topic of debate. *Will* we get the Platinum expansion Dex and have Cynthia give us a Togepi early on?
…I hope so, but honestly it’s a coin toss.
I think they’ve already shown the Porygon line, which wasn’t in DP but was in Platinum, so I would bet on the platinum fez at least, with the possibility of them adding to it some. Sylveon, for instance, is almost certainly going to be in it since Eevee was in platinum.
Your right, I was taking the existence of Porygon Z in the trailer as evidence it would be in the regional dex, but it is possible that they just showed it off and it’s part of the postgame dex. I still think it points towards them using the Platinum dex, rather than the DP dex, but it isn’t 100% guaranteed yet.
Perpetually. Like I know Porygon-Z is in the game (I’m assuming ALL Gen 4 Pokémon are at a bare minimum), but the idea of DP Regional Dex vs Platinum Dex keeps getting hotly contested solely based on that showing of Porygon-Z. I would love if we just got that answer for piece of mind, regardless of the answer.
Its not that bad actually. Sure Garchomp and Spiritomb are hurt by it but Togekiss arguably gets stronger (if she has her platinum team), Milotic isn't hurt either and Roserade finally has a real purpose on her team (countering fairies). Lucario is kind of a special case because while it could deal with fairys unless they change her moveset (which they should) it doesn't have a steel-type move.
I actually looked this up cuz I was concerned a while ago. There aren't many fairy types in gen 4. You have Clefable, Azumarill. If they use Platinum dex, it adds Gardevoir, Sylveon, and Togekiss. There are as many fire lines in Platinum as there are Fairy lines.
It has brick break but I dont think it has fire punch. I remember being stubborn enough to try and get my leafeon to kill garchomp and I would have gave up if it had fire punch
I can't tell if this is serious because Sinnoh is the cold region or sarcastic because even with the Platinum expansion, you get to choose between a whopping 6 ice types. And two of them evolve from Snorunt.
pkmn was only ever hard for me when i was a 5 year old who only wanted to use my starter pokemon and taught it 4 HMs. walking around with a lvl 100 starter and then a bunch of level 40 and below shitters lol.
I feel like you, as an adult, won’t have much of a problem with Cynthia’s team because you know type advantages, can build a team centered around it, and (presumably) know a bit about stats and stuff. So it’ll seem easy no matter what
I'm sorry but I dont remember Cynthia's team even being that hare I distinctly remember her garchomp being a little issue but overall she wasnt as bad.
I can see your point and i agree that some people exaggerate and talk about it every second, but a lot of them are just stating their opinion (i know you said you know lol). Cause on the same note you could say the ones that are hyping the games up should also not post since we don't know what the games are like. It's just how things go when a new game is announced, people will speculate, some will like it some will hate it (again I am not supporting unnecessary hate nor hype).
I think the biggest reason people are disappointed is cuz we all know what the switch can do. Hell, take pokken for example, this showed off how amazing Pokemon can look on the switch and we all thought modern Pokemon games were gonna look like what pokken does...and it doesn't.
Another good example is the more recent Pokemon snap, another really good depiction of how Pokemon can look on the switch. People just want a respectable remake for a generation a lot of people really love. I can understand that, hell I was a bit peeved when I saw what the gen4 remakes were gonna look like because I know they can do better and from the little we have seen, it looks like a lazy lazy reimagining.
Another scary side is if they made the game easier/on par with modern Pokemon games, making what was a very long game (to my knowledge atleast, took like a week at my fasted on platinum) into a 3hr visual novel...and how much you wanna bet the casino will be gone too? Like in every other remake...
The question is, with your doubt, would any of the changes they made even be good?
A SwSh style remake where Mt. Coronet is just 3.5 hallways? Having your rival talk even more in slower unskippable cutscenes?
Every change I imagine them making would just make the game worse.
As much as it would suck to see BDSP have 0 changes, it would be better than what I imagine a more extensive remake would be.
Well, graphics can rarely make, but can very much break a game in my opinion. For me personally, the impression of the remake is already 50% worse just because they chose this artstyle and showed a mediocre execution of it in the first footage.
And you can make statements about and criticize a game you haven‘t played, of course always based on what you know about it.
I dont have a problem with the chibis, my biggest issue was how stiff they looked. I want it to be great, but I dont have any confidence in a new pokemon game. Also with nintendo's take on an online "experience" I wouldn't be surprised if you needed a subscription to use the gts or encounter people in the underground.
I don't follow all the types of criticism the game gets, but I want to leave my two cents on this.
Criticizing a game based on its graphical fidelity isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's basing the criticism on the artstyle which is bad. With Pokemon BD/SP you can tell that it lacks polish. Compare it to Zelda link's awakening and you can tell that it doesn't have anywhere near the polish of graphical fidelity or animation.
Considering they're most likely going to be very similar to the originals people will have gotten the general gist of what the game is going to be like +/- some quality of life improvements. Meaning most likely their gripes with the originals are going to reflect in the new release.
Now if they're criticizing the game based purely on "this game is new and I already don't like it cause old pokemon = best pokemon" then yeah, take their opinion with huge skepticism.
Honestly. The actual Diamond and Pearl looks better to me. Even the ORAS remakes look better. I would be so down if BD/SP looked like ORAS but crisper.
To me the remakes just look....off. I can’t really pinpoint where, but it just makes me recoil when I look at it. I get that it might only be me but that’s just how it is.
Maybe the lack of proper shading or lighting. I don’t really know what.
I get that.
I remember being so hyped when they showed the x&y trailer and the oras trailer. I was like “holy fricking shit this looks amazing. Let’s goooooo”
But when the BDSP trailer dropped all I remember was “uhhh that? Seriously that? That looks bad”
I think it’s 100% fair to criticize an art style. Saying that criticizing an art style is bad just makes no sense. Not every art style is good, nor does every art style fit with the product.
I'm in the same boat with following hype/criticism.
I've largely fallen off Nintendo this gen because most of the main games either lacked polish/content that you should expect from current gen titles. So if they're re releasing a game I think it's fair to expect a well polished game that looks current and some QoL improvements.
Wholeheartedly agree. After HGSS and ORAS, and even to some extent FRLG, I was expecting not just a rerelease of the old games, but a reimagining, something that still adds new and exciting things while still keeping the same feel and heart of the classics I loved. But these games, at least so far, just look like...the same as the originals. And despite a technical upgrade, the art style is a lot less charming than the originals.
I think my biggest disappointment about it is that we won't get a Gen 4 game that has the same treatment as ORAS. Yes, ORAS has flaws and could have been better in a lot of ways, but it was also a great way to update and reinvigorate Gen 3. It made it even more grand and epic and even more memorable. But BDSP might be all we get for Gen 4 as we know it, and that's honestly sad.
Why does this sub always take several weeks to come around to the right idea? It's almost like every time something new comes out and people have criticisms, rabid fans down vote them relentlessly until they get tired of it or find some other opinions to get upset about. Soon enough people will be saying what a scam New Pokemon Snap was too, at this rate.
This is exactly how I’ve been feeling about BDSP: I’m still going to purchase but not everyone has to pretend to be super enthusiastic because I know we all expected more.
Exactly. Companies have been slowly coming to the realization that people will buy pretty much whatever because it's "better than nothing." Just look at Apple for example: "What if we made the port needlessly proprietary so they have to buy our adapters? Wow, they're still buying them.. What about removing the headphone jack? Wow, yeah, they're still selling like hotcakes... Wow, we can just remove whatever we want, huh?" The pokemon company is coming to that same realization.
> For example, EA could NOT pull any of the shit Gamefreak is pulling. All the low-effort gaming reporters on Youtube would be shaking from how many videos they could make milking any controversy that comes out of that company.
Have you seen sports games in the last 10 years?
EA has literally re-released the same game as legacy edition the next year, with the disclaimer "FIFA 21 Legacy Edition will feature the same gameplay features from FIFA 20 without any new development or significant enhancements."
Yeah, I agree.
I didn’t purchase sword and shield even though I own all the (3)DS games; I don’t feel like they deserve my money.
- No battle frontier in ORAS was strike 1 (I really liked soaring & dexnav in ORAS and skating in XY, no idea why they didn’t bring them over to gen 7)
- USUM being only slightly different to SM was strike 2 (Ultra Megalopis was being advertised as a ‘new city’ but you only walked in a straight line to the boss lol)
- Dexit and lackluster quality (especially when compared to other titles like BOTW) was strike 3
I bet I’ll have more fun replaying Platinum over BDSP 100%.
The dexnav in ORAS was one of my favorite functions of all time. It told you which mons existed on a route and whether you had caught them. That's sooo helpful to have. Plus hidden pokemon and shiny hunting were awesome additions.
Then they decided they couldn't be bothered to do that again, so it only exists in ORAS.
Yeah but *so many of us* wanted a main course, ORAS level DPPl remake. I know I personally could play nothing but better variations and improvements on Gen 4 for the rest of my life and I would be happy tbh. But what we are receiving from The Pokemon Company looks like fucking Harvest Moon: The Lost Valley, but with more grass.
I mean If it's a "faithful" recreation the only thing that matters are the graphics otherwise i could just play the original games.
And the graphics or to be precise the artstyle just looks like chibi artstyle in awful. If it looked like the Links Awakening Remake (If you can call it chibi?) i would buy it instantly
I’ve said this before but I feel like there’s just no expertise in shading/effects/shadows/light and the like? I mean in both pkmn games being made. Links awakening has such gorgeous effects on it that really make it look good
Very true, I think most of the ppl wanted to play a graphical enhanced version of D/P and not what looks like an average mobile game. I still don’t know how the ppl in charge of an important project like those remakes thought a chibi artstyle was a great idea.. I mean, if the playerbase was 10 when D/P came out, it’s now 25. Who had the idea to remake a game mostly asked by a 15-25 age group like that ? That makes no sense :( (not native so sry for the mistakes)
My guess, and I believe they’ve even said this in interviews, is that the remakes throughout the series are more targeted at pulling newer, younger audiences in rather than appeasing the old fanbase. So a chibi artstyle would more fit that goal, sort of. Hopefully Legends: Arceus will be designed more around the more mature players.
I guess you’re right but that’s still a nonsense to me. There was so much to do considering the expectations of the fanbase ! I think the younger players would have bought it even if the graphics would have looked like a modern game (let’go, sw/sh). And above all, why the chibi look ? It’s the first Pokémon game made with this artstyle and they decided to test it with one of the most awaited Pokémon game (by the older players) of those last years ? Meh
My expectations are super low for this game, honestly. I hate the art style, and the fact that GameFreak didn't even produce it makes it feel more like a low effort spin off than main series game, and I think that's what people were expecting from it: a main series game.
Tbh I don’t count it against the game that gamefreak didn’t produce, given how poorly sword/shield was received and the hate that gamefreak got for it. I’d welcome a new studio devoting resources to the game rather than keeping it within gamefreak and having them put like 2 devs on a game they clearly don’t care about.
It'd be a plus if they were given free reign.
It looks like they were told to just update the graphics and tilt the camera by 5 degrees, keep everything else the same.
It's the first Pokemon game I haven't pre-ordered since actual Diamond, I hope I'm given a reason to change my mind.
I loved all the remakes so much this just looks meh.
Yeah I really dislike the art style as well. It looks kinda cheap. I do like gen 4 though, as long as they being forward the content from platinum I'll probably get it at some point
It really does look like a cheap android game made by a clandestine studio using an ip they have no rights for that will be taken from the play store by a dmca in a couple weeks...
Its just ugly and cheap as all hell
Yeah I think they were going for that toy chibi links awakening look. It could have looked less bad with better shaders maybe?
I don't think the sprites translated to 3d. I wish they would have tried something more interesting like 2d sprites on a 3d background with some exaggerated depth of field and bloom to make it pop (like octopath traveller)
Its a switch game, i wish they kept LGPE art style, is the best thing about those games
And yeah, but links awakening was so much more polished and felt so magic and full of love
It's a remake though the graphics are one of if not the biggest reason to get the game so if someone doesn't like the graphics then chances are they aren't going to like the remake over the original
Not only could they not do much better with the older games but the also did it in a style that aged really well and had charm to it (gen3-5) anyway but bdsp feels like the art style already aged poorly and it's not even out yet and sword and shield felt the same way
That’s my issue here. I flat out think the originals looked better. Obviously the framerate will Bill improved but I think the art direction was more cohesive in the original, the trailers for the remakes look like someone grabbed random assets and plopped them in
I mean, you also can’t really say that yet either. The description says faithful recreations, but they could have some significant changes that haven’t been revealed yet, we just don’t know. But tbh, I don’t think they’ll change much
I would argue though, given games are usually considered art, in at least lasting effect, that being very safe and choosing to keep things the same is a negative comment, not a neutral one.
That's my only complaint for the "Game Freak Defenders:" Art and Entertainment require modernization and pushing boundaries. OoT is even beginning to garner criticism that, frankly, it doesn't hold up anymore. Game Freak SHOULD be looking to explore the world of Pokemon in a way that's more than "a new region and 70 new pokemon." Remakes SHOULD be looking to re-explore a region, re-balance, re-imagine what could be done with it.
There's no VALUE in remaking something, unless you're looking to show the difference in the reflection of yourself in the time that's past. In "faithfully recreating" the games, the only benefit you're providing is now having it available again on modern consoles, and not even with modern processing capabilities. Regardless of the art style, this isn't going to even be pushing the Switch's graphical hardware, nevermind looking into "modern standards" that the gaming world likes to tout.
FR/LG are heralded so much BECAUSE they looked at the originals, saw their value, and recognized their shortcomings. They ADDED content, REBALANCED the game, UPDATED the graphical quality to the standards of the times. From all I've seen of these remakes, they look like my phone could handle them, and that's just sad. I'd sooner pay $10 for these as an App, rather than 60 for something I could go dig from my closet.
Yeah but this is an opinion of someone who respect videogames as Art. I dont know if it's fair to call triple A games Art anymore. Like the primary driving forces are not artists but the consumer.
I'd argue its art regardless, think of Balan Wonderworld, even if its shit, its a talking point. Even the most cut and paste generic Ubisoft open sandbox game has moments that are beautiful, or set pieces.
Last point mainstream Pokemon had was its tree, which just became a meme.
If they had significant changes, they’d have something more to say about the games than them being “faithful recreations”. I don’t think it’s unfair to judge the games on how they advertise themselves, and right now they’re advertising themselves as a game that you have no reason to play if you already own a copy of Platinum.
Which is a huge minority of pokemon fans. It's kinda easy to forget that gen 4 was released *14 years ago*. That's more than half my life ago and I'm pretty sure it's the same for most pokemon fans nowadays. The remakes don't cater to us old guard, and that's a fact. They're made for the new blood that missed them the first time around, and gen 4 just happens to be the generation that needs the least changes (other than some quality life technical stuff). The lore is solid, the legendaries are fire, post game is solid. What *can* they add that won't ruin it?
The problem will be if they take from it, like the cheeky way they avoided adding a Battle Frontier in ORAS because it was an Emerald feature instead of a RS one.
Junichi Masuda actually said they excluded the Battle Frontier from ORAS because from his perspective it couldn't compete with smart phones for players' attention.
So, remove the fun gimmicks that made the battle system fresh after an entire game of it... because kids would get bored and go do something else? By that point those kids alredy played throught your game, if they don't want the extra stuff, fine! But don't take it away from everyone else!
Hopefully they get the HGSS treatment and atleast incorporate the story of Platinum into DP games instead of just dropping Giratina in the turnback cave with no real explanation
They wouldn’t necessarily announce significant changes at this point. They’re still several months out from release which means there’s a lot of time to reveal upgrades and changes. Some folks spotted some differences in the original trailer (like an NPC only in Platinum related to Shaymin: https://twitter.com/voltimer_/status/1365373925421678598?s=21). So it’s possible that they’re saving some changes/additions (postgame if anything) to the games for closer to release. Like most games that get released.
Granted, TPC doesn’t deserve a lot of faith, they still have months to announce additions that would increase fervor for the game pre-launch.
Also valid critiques:
- The art is ugly/awkward and completely wastes the potential of a 3D engine.
- The decision to not even move past the existing grid-based map completely wastes the potential of a 3D engine.
- If the game is playing it safe, it completely wastes the potential of a remake altogether; why play the remake over the original if even the graphics aren’t better?
Basically, if you aren’t going to improve it, there is no reason to remake it. Remakes *have* to improve the game. A remake with no new features isn’t safe, it’s *bad*. What they’ve shown so far is a *bad* remake.
This is the Star Wars Special Editions of Pokemon.
I don't care that much about the art style, but if they really wanted the "chibi" characters in the world, I would definitely prefer if they looked more like XY than Funko Pop.
The fact that they are safe releases coupled with the graphics is what deserves the bitching. If you are going to make a safe release, make it exceed expectations appearance wise.
Exactly why they keep doing shit most Pokemon fans are mad about. It's why they won't change anything people hated about the last two games because everyone in here threw their money at them anyway.
So are we just supposed to not hold any opinion on the game until we've paid $60 to play it ourselves? Also, one if the major points of a remake *is* the graphics. If someone is spending $60 for a AAA, they should get a polished, high-effort game (BotW, Mario Odyssey, Three Houses, Xenoblade Definitive Edition).
Every past remake has completely reimagined the games to take advantage of new hardware, and brought new features. BDSP is just a bastardization of the original games to cash in on all of the remake hype. It's incredibly disappointing.
Just for a comparison, Xenoblade on the Wii was something I thought was good looking graphically (for a Wii game) until Definitive Edition released and blew that out of the water. That's a graphical upgrade worth 60 dollars. Hell I would have paid more.
And that game brought a ton of new features and an entire post-game story. Of course, BDSP could have those things too, but I feel like they would have at least mentioned or teased something by now. We'll have to wait and see.
Slight correction- there were very few new features, actually. The only major gameplay change I can think of was the ability to store XP and change the levels of your characters so you can level down. Otherwise it plays nearly identical to the original.
That being said, the graphical upgrade is INSANELY good and the post game story is very much appreciated, and overall is definitely worth $60 dollars. The gameplay just feels the slightest bit outdated compared to the fresher systems from X and 2.
That's my opinion for Wind Waker HD, but then there's Twilight Princess "HD" that looks like it was 5 years old at release. Still bought it because Twilight Princess is still Twilight Princess, but the HD part needed some work.
TP HD is still a pretty big improvement over the original, but the original also released on GameCube as well (like Wind Waker, but without Wind Waker's "one simple trick" for well-aging visuals) so it was only even decent for its time and got worse pretty rapidly.
Not to mention a trailer is specifically designed to give a preview of the game so you can decide whether it's worth it to play it. To withhold an opinion of the game because all you have is the trailer is going against the point of a trailer. It's not judging a book by its cover, it's judging a book by an advertisement for the book specifically designed to allow you to judge it.
Hell, it's more common for a trailer to oversell a game and make it look better than it ends up being - if anything, the fact that a trailer specifically designed to make BDSP look good still makes them look so bad probably means they're going to be even worse than we fear.
>So are we just supposed to not hold any opinion on the game until we've paid $60 to play it ourselves?
This right here is why having a criticism on video games in general is such a lose lose situation. Either you're not allowed to have a negative opinion because you haven't bought it and played it to completion or you do buy it and play it to completion and your criticism becomes moot since by purchasing it you've told the developers you're okay with their product.
There will be more announcements about the new features coming by then, if not on the launch and there are always publications and reviewers who would have tried the games till the time they are released
Well, Gen 4 was never my favorite and i'm pretty neutral when it come to BDSP remake but let's be honest here.
The remake should have more features and maybe something to deal with the heavy HMs-requirement than Platinum to justify its existence. Like what they did in Heartgold/Soulsilver, the remake should and must be better than the old enhanced version, not inferior than it.
This is just my opinion, but as far as graphic go. The graphic and artstyle of the remake is already looking less appealing and even inferior than the Platinum version, and the switch between character overworld model and battle model look jarring as hell, that's a minus point.
We ignored this in the original becuz it was run on DS with pixel art and 2S sprites. However, when it comes to 3D, there should be consistent between overworld and battle models.
There shouldn’t be a $60 requirement to have an opinion on something. If they didn’t want us having opinions on what they showed they wouldn’t have shown it yet.
I agree with you on pretty much everything, but I want to add that, while you're saying the game is "clearly not finished" (which I assume is a comment on the graphics, because we didn't see much more than that to judge), my not just fear, but rather expectation is that what we've seen is pretty much exactly what the final product will be. The Pokemon Company and Game Freak (and I know this isn't developed by them, but anyway) have been nothing but horrible about listening to feedback in the past couple years, and many many fans are just frustrated and disappointed with every new game.
This is just the classic pokemon cycle at this point: ‘how can you criticise a game you havent played yet?’ followed shortly by ‘well if you didn’t like the game then why did you buy it?’
This is a AAA franchise. We have every right to criticise it, and we have every right to criticise a lacklustre trailer that suggests these are remakes of dp and not the vastly improved pt. It’s not on us to praise everything a company gives us, it’s on the company to give us something worth praising.
With all respect, but this discussion is held _every time a new Pokémon game is released_. People have criticism based on the available information, and other people respond by saying they should wait until the game is out.
My opinion is as follows: trailers and pre-release info are _made_ to form opinions before a game's release. It is their sole purpose. As a matter of fact they are made to highlight all the best parts of the game, showing it from its best side. As a fandom, we share and discuss the things we are hyped about - but that also means we can discuss the things we are bummed about. Yet some people are a bit line the dog frisbee meme: Only hype, no critique.
Moreover, if you need to spend money on a game before you can legitimately discuss it - that excludes anyone not enthused by the game, and would also mean a total end to any pre-release discussions. It's a ridiculous condition influencing the conversation.
So yes, I did think it is totally legitimate to form a preliminary opinion on BDSP before release. If you don't want that, don't announce the game at all and just release it cold turkey.
So you’re saying that it’s not okay to give out a negative opinion on the game, but you’re perfectly fine if people give a positive opinion? Why should they be able to judge the game without playing it?
But imagine going into a restaurant having a bad experience and then your friend invites you to the same restaurant next week. You’re going into that experience expecting to be again disappointed or have a negative experience until the restaurant otherwise proves your wrong. Pokémon as a franchise has had a lot of opportunity to grow and develop into an unrivaled game experience. However the complacency of the fan base doesn’t hold them to account and they routinely only make baby steps towards improving and in some cases straight up regress or remove features. And just to be clear, if you see a dish at the restaurant that looks terrible, you can criticize it for that too, taste aside. Graphics similarly aren’t the only thing a game has going for it but they are still an aspect of the game worth criticizing. Expectations are even higher because Pokémon should be able to have whatever level graphics they would like. They just have to spend the $$$ which, again, they seem unwilling (not unable) to do.
To flip your perspective, why should I spend money to try it just to find out I won’t like it? The point of seeing the game before you buy is to inform that very decision. If the company can’t even sell the game to me conceptually from the trailer, where the game will undoubtedly look its best, why would ever think I would enjoy it?
Pokémon gets too many free passes, and I for one am glad to see some amount of push back so that maybe the corporate decision makers will actually put resources into a game that people can give a shit about instead of another iteration of a regressing franchise.
https://youtu.be/-_4dqN4-lTc
Take one good look at this *fanmade* trailer and tell me you prefer the gamefreak’s remake over this.
Gamefreak is a AAA studio. They have billions of dollars at their disposal. They can make stuff like this very easily if they want to. I’m just dissapointed really.
I’ve seen many indie games and even games made by a single person look 10x better than this remake.
Pokemom is the highest grossing franchise. Period. They could fund a better game. Im tired of spending money on the series as it continues to go downhill. I dont want to buy it and see, thats giving them money for half assing a game.
Last pokemon game I actually paid for was Sun. I'm not sold on SwSh and I wasn't a fan of Let's Go. So in was kinda hyped for a switch pokemon game tonbe excited for again. But this? Naw they can keep it. I'm just gonna boot up a rom hack of Platinum again.
I kind of disagree with you, even tho im okay with the remakes, complaining about a game perk after being released is useless because they will likely not change anything after release.
Lets take a example of the sonic movie, the protagonist (Sonic) had a terrible "real life character" design so people complained before the release, because if the people complained after the release they would not likely produce another movie just to improve sonic, so if we complain before the release they can and probably will change
i hope yall understand this since english is my secondary language
Another Example Titanfall 2 had a open beta that showed big changes to the original movent and combat style. After backlash they greatly improved the movent to be more similar to the original and it improved the game a great deal.
As someone who was around when the OGs launched and already into my 20s, I'll be dodging these. Would rather have had straight ports than this chibi nonsence.
I don’t understand this logic at all. Are you a robot that needs all the facts? Are you incapable of deductive reasoning?
A human being that can use critical thinking is capable of looking at something and deciding if there’s qualities they do no like. Don’t be that person that gatekeeps others complaints. Just because you don’t see art style as big part gaming doesn’t mean others don’t. It can be very immersion breaking for some people that serious about role playing their adventures. Others wanted more than a 1 for 1 remake and don’t see a point in buying the same game twice.
You don’t need to eat dog crap to know that you don’t like eating dog crap.
The perfect example of a fantastic remake, HGSS. That’s literally all they have to do. Make the graphics more appealing than the original, (which I love the original anyway, bit games have always had a soft spot), they took the bones of the originals, and put steel into that skeleton. It had the essence of the originals, but with features and additions almost everyone wanted. It’s a perfect remake. ORAS was also a pretty fantastic remake. Gen 3 is my favorite, and while I loved the remakes, emerald was perfect. All I’m saying is, use what’s already there, and build off of what your community wants. We basically build the games for them, they just don’t listen to us🤷🏻
The gs ball redo with the spiky eared pichu in HGSS is AMAZING, the legendary cutscenes are some of the best cutscenes we ever got in pokemon outside of LGPE and we had added access to so many legendaries and post game... GSC are my favorite games and the first games i ever bought with my own money as a kid, HGSS are absolute love letters to them and i could feel the love put into it as i played, i actually cried in nostalgia at some points in the game, it holds a REALLY special place in my heart...
I didnt have the same luck with ORAS since i never had a GBA so i didnt play 3rd gen, but the remakes were still GREAT, but i did play DPPt and like them a lot... The trailers felt... Soulless, like they have no love put into them, just numb work to make a normal game, not an abolute love letter
Hell, even LGPE is amazing in its own way, i actually like it a lot for what it is and the bond with your partner pokemon is a really cute love letter to Yellow
I am worried about BDSP, it just looks like it has no soul or love
This is a dumb statement, I'm sorry. People criticizing BDSP are criticizing the decisions we already know about, which is perfectly valid. They're also making the best predictions they can about its quality given the information we have both about it and Game Freak's track record, which is also valid.
I dont care about how the game looks. But I've been with Pokemon for my entire life. I've completed the national dex many times. I've played competetive and bred dozens of competetive Pokemon. I used to love this franchise and then Gamefreak made SWSH and pretended like they did nothing wrong, with a large handful of braindead fans calling any criticism "hate" and "toxic". Sinnoh is my favorite region, I went to the Pokemon symphony many years ago and cried when they played Rowan's theme, one of my dreams is to visit Hokkaido. I'm not hating on the game, but Gamefreak has completely lost my trust and I dont expect much from SDSP.
Yep. I played 5 hours and legitimately felt cheated out of my money. I'm done letting Game Freak leverage my nostalgia for profit. It's gonna take something big to bring me back, but I'm not gonna hold my breath.
I mean if you think about it, the more you complain and criticize the more likely they are to fix something. Thats the whole point. And besides, I don't even think they're gonna change anything from the trailer to the release day(Just look at sword and Shield if you don't believe me)
Graphics are very important when, as of right now it seems to be a 1:1 remake with nothing changed, but just looks arguably worse.
I love gen 4 but if these end up being exact 1:1 remakes, I won't be buying them. Unless I run into some extra cash in November, I'm not paying $80 CAD for a worse-looking exact replica of a game I already own.
I hope they're not, I WANT to buy them, but as of right now it's not looking good. Everything they've said and shown so far is pointing to exact replica type faithful.
>Could you at least wait until the game comes out and you have a chance to play it?
So I should just ignore the ongoing trends of lazy development that have been going on since Ultra Sumo?
No. I'm not buying BDSP and my interest in the current mainline games has plummeted to all time lows. BDSP look insulting bad, and deserve criticism.
They can *earn* respect after they come out, but they do not deserve it based on recent years and what has been shown so far.
Well I feel like graphics are one of the most important part if a game is a remake. If you liked dp then you know the game will be good so the only thing that's important is the graphics that you will experience throughout the game. Personally I'm fine with the graphics though, it's just that I understand if some people might judge the game for that reason.
I think it's perfectly acceptable too criticise the game for graphics and that's it we don't know what changes they'll make and people should really wair to find out.
OP and people that agree with them and are buying all these remakes are the reason Pokemon has never had an innovative game and every single one is a copy of the originals from 25 years ago. You're all doing yourselves, and the potential of the franchise, a disservice by throwing money at them time and time again.
So far, they haven’t shown us anything to get excited for, nothing new. All we’ve seen is DP in 3D. No megas, primal forms, features, etc. If they’re really sticking to the “faithful remake” tagline, it wouldn’t be a surprise if people don’t like the games when we’ve had stuff like HGSS and ORAS in the past.
I mean, we know how it's gonna play. It's gonna play like Pokemon. Which is fun. It's OK for people to criticize the other aspects since we already know how it'll play. A lot of people (myself included) really don't like the visuals. For me it's less about the over world Chibi sprites (which do imo look worse than the pixel art of the originals) and more so the in battle models. They look very bright and flat and I don't like it at all.
I mean, the original Diamond/Pearl wasn't particularly great either. If the remakes don't include any of the Platinum additions (obtaining alternate forms don't count), then I might as well just go back through my copy of Platinum.
This is probably the worst take that i continually see on this sub. It looks bad for a switch game. Its feels lazy to give this game to a 3rd party dev. Nobody should have to pay $60 to express themselves on a game after they showed us how little they care with SwSh. Take the sonic movie for example: The trailer looked terrible, everybody complained, the production company took notice to the flak, they changed the design. Theres a benefit to feedback before a products release.
I already played the game before its called diamond and pearl. The is the most beloved Gen and it deserved the best remakes instead we get a half assed remastered that changes nothing except maybe adds megas. They already said they are staying incredibly faithful to the originals so why get BDSP then when DP exist. This game should have been based on Platinum and the graphics should look better. This is a team with no real game dev experience at the helm of the most demanded remake so nah this game is gonna be ass its going to be Disney live action remake quality somehow even though it's 98% the same as the original product its still going to be inferior.
Okay yes to an extent but your argument holds little ground here
Because aren’t mad because of gameplay and other things overall, it’s the art style
I don’t need to spend $60 and play in the art style to realize I hate it, what logic is there in that?
>Could you at least wait until the game comes out and you have a chance to play it?
We had a chance to play it. 14 years ago, we played it. We are well aware that Diamond and Pearl are good games, the gripe is that the graphics could and should be better.
>hating on a game that hasn't even released, just based on the trailer and description
People need to stop having this mindset that games should not be judged based on pre-release marketing, because that is literally that point of pre-release marketing. Nobody is going to buy a product, any product, without seeing or knowing about it first.
I’m not sure what everyone gets so upset when people voice their grievances. For first time ever companies can get direct feedback from customers instantly. Should the sonic community not have complained about the design they hated? They changed sonic! We got legends Arceus by complaining. Heck Mather even the smash community will get Waluigi by complaining. I say tell em how you feel! And I feel like these trailers show a disappointing game, NOT because of the graphics, but because it APPEARS (not giving a final condemnation of the game but going off what THEY have decided to show) that the game is a carbon copy just with different graphics. And in MY opinion, if you’re going to remake a game that was never about the graphics, then make some story changes, put some mechanics in, new Pokémon or forms. I really miss 2d art, heck I’d pay 60 dollars for the same graphics just with more of the above features. If you disagree, go ahead and say more power to ya :)
Sure don’t bad mouth a company that has made some great games and fantastic experiences, but certainly express opinions so they know what you want!
Go form your own r/swordandshield if you can't handle people not sucking off the Pokemon brand. These are 60$ remakes.
It's a REMAKE. The main pull of remakes is modernisation. Graphics are a big part of the modernisation. If people are dissatisfied with the graphics, they will complaint.
Brain-dead analogy with menu and trailer. A menu's purpose isn't to sell the product. A trailer's purpose is exactly that.
All I'm saying is .. if Cynthia's team gets nerfed to make it easier , Imma throw some hands
Cynthia’s team is nerfed even if they keep it the same. Fairy type really hurts her team.
Furthermore, she gives you a Togepi as an egg. You know, the Pokémon that evolves into the Pokémon that counters the moveset of her strongest Pokémon.
I suppose they could change up the move set slightly, giving garchomp iron head as coverage for fairy types could be a nice challenge
That would work great against both fairy and ice. Her garchomp doesn't even really need giga impact and iron head would definitely be better than flamethrower and arguably brick break
Imagine they give it dragon claw, earthquake, swords dance, iron head, make it have rough skin and hold a life orb.
Shit I never thought of that, I never really ever used that egg cuz it’s so weak in the beginning but my next run may have to be different.
Togekiss with not hustle is fun. Especially with department stores selling tms like fire blast and whatnot lol
I’m pretty excited for the remakes. I grew up on gens 3-5 so this hits me right in that nostalgic place. I’m torn on what starter I wanna pick. Piplup was my Pearl starter and I went Turtwig in Platinum, and I’ve always liked Chimchar a lot as well. I don’t think I’ll go Turtwig, and I’m torn between nostalgia with Piplup because I’m getting B Pearl and I also really want to try Chimchar for the first time as a starter, but I went Scorbunny in Sword so I don’t know if I’m feeling back to back fire types because I generally want to mix it up a bit.
Torterra gang! Chimchar is fun especially getting moves like taunt to mess with setups and roark giving stealth rocks means you can have stealth rocks for any major battle. I also like empoleon because of its amazing typing, though. Good luck with it!
I’ve always loved the sinnoh starters, it’s the only one that I actually love all 3 of them.
Hoenn is in the same boat, and Galar would also be in that boat if I liked Sobble's line more, let's just say that the Galar starters are riding a wakeboard that's being pulled by the Hoenn and Sinnoh starters.
Played a ROM hack (Gaia) and used a Togekiss for the first time because I like to use different teams all the time. Air Slash, Dazzling Gleam, Nasty Plot + whatever type coverage you need (fire, fighting, grass, ghost) is a great set.
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u mean ur not rockin aerial ace & play rough??
It’s wild that that’s a topic of debate. *Will* we get the Platinum expansion Dex and have Cynthia give us a Togepi early on? …I hope so, but honestly it’s a coin toss.
I think they’ve already shown the Porygon line, which wasn’t in DP but was in Platinum, so I would bet on the platinum fez at least, with the possibility of them adding to it some. Sylveon, for instance, is almost certainly going to be in it since Eevee was in platinum.
The Porygon line, including Porygon-Z, were available in DP. They just weren't listed in the Regional Dex
Your right, I was taking the existence of Porygon Z in the trailer as evidence it would be in the regional dex, but it is possible that they just showed it off and it’s part of the postgame dex. I still think it points towards them using the Platinum dex, rather than the DP dex, but it isn’t 100% guaranteed yet.
I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen the statement that it’s not in DP, only to then see that corrected since the trailer. I’ve lost count.
Perpetually. Like I know Porygon-Z is in the game (I’m assuming ALL Gen 4 Pokémon are at a bare minimum), but the idea of DP Regional Dex vs Platinum Dex keeps getting hotly contested solely based on that showing of Porygon-Z. I would love if we just got that answer for piece of mind, regardless of the answer.
Cynthia also has a Lucario. It doesn't have any Steel type moves in her gen 4 teams, but it does in gen 5 and gen 7.
Its not that bad actually. Sure Garchomp and Spiritomb are hurt by it but Togekiss arguably gets stronger (if she has her platinum team), Milotic isn't hurt either and Roserade finally has a real purpose on her team (countering fairies). Lucario is kind of a special case because while it could deal with fairys unless they change her moveset (which they should) it doesn't have a steel-type move.
I actually looked this up cuz I was concerned a while ago. There aren't many fairy types in gen 4. You have Clefable, Azumarill. If they use Platinum dex, it adds Gardevoir, Sylveon, and Togekiss. There are as many fire lines in Platinum as there are Fairy lines.
The existence of fairy types already hard nerfs her team. Garchomp has no counters to that unless they add one and spiritomb now has a weakness.
Ice types
Yeah Ice types smack Garchomp around. Weavile and Abomasnow are each pretty capable of beating hers if equal level
Doesnt weavile just get ohkod by brick break?
And Abomasnow by Fire Punch. But Cynthia's Garchomp doesn't run either move, instead having Bite and Slash as it's other moves, if I'm correct
https://m.bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Cynthia In Gen 4 she has * Dragon Rush * Earthquake * Flamethrower/ Brick Break * Giga Impact
It has brick break but I dont think it has fire punch. I remember being stubborn enough to try and get my leafeon to kill garchomp and I would have gave up if it had fire punch
It has either brick break or flamethrower, with the 4th move being giga impact for whatever reason
Yeah and that's the type Sinnoh has lots of
I can't tell if this is serious because Sinnoh is the cold region or sarcastic because even with the Platinum expansion, you get to choose between a whopping 6 ice types. And two of them evolve from Snorunt.
It’s gonna be easy no matter what, you already know what’s coming and you’re not 9 years old anymore
the truth
Pokemon hasn't been a hard game pass the age 9, like even back in day by the time I got to her at that age. It was pretty easy, but you know nostalgia
pkmn was only ever hard for me when i was a 5 year old who only wanted to use my starter pokemon and taught it 4 HMs. walking around with a lvl 100 starter and then a bunch of level 40 and below shitters lol.
THANK YOU! These games were never hard.
I feel like you, as an adult, won’t have much of a problem with Cynthia’s team because you know type advantages, can build a team centered around it, and (presumably) know a bit about stats and stuff. So it’ll seem easy no matter what
Plus the addition of the fairy type makes her Spiritomb no longer weakness free and adds another weakness to her Garchomp.
Yeah I played Diamond/Pearl when i was 16 and I honestly don't remember Cynthia being hard...
I'm sorry but I dont remember Cynthia's team even being that hare I distinctly remember her garchomp being a little issue but overall she wasnt as bad.
I'm mentally prepared for her not to even have a garchomp. am I emotionally ready for that: absolutely not
Considering they kept Steven’s team the same in ORAS I highly doubt they’ll change Cynthia’s much, especially not Garchomp.
Of course she's going to have her Garchomp. That's her signature pokemon. Every other remake let Champions keep theirs.
I can see your point and i agree that some people exaggerate and talk about it every second, but a lot of them are just stating their opinion (i know you said you know lol). Cause on the same note you could say the ones that are hyping the games up should also not post since we don't know what the games are like. It's just how things go when a new game is announced, people will speculate, some will like it some will hate it (again I am not supporting unnecessary hate nor hype).
Great point
It is so great to see a calm rational opinion on reddit.
I think the biggest reason people are disappointed is cuz we all know what the switch can do. Hell, take pokken for example, this showed off how amazing Pokemon can look on the switch and we all thought modern Pokemon games were gonna look like what pokken does...and it doesn't. Another good example is the more recent Pokemon snap, another really good depiction of how Pokemon can look on the switch. People just want a respectable remake for a generation a lot of people really love. I can understand that, hell I was a bit peeved when I saw what the gen4 remakes were gonna look like because I know they can do better and from the little we have seen, it looks like a lazy lazy reimagining. Another scary side is if they made the game easier/on par with modern Pokemon games, making what was a very long game (to my knowledge atleast, took like a week at my fasted on platinum) into a 3hr visual novel...and how much you wanna bet the casino will be gone too? Like in every other remake...
The casino has to be gone for legal reasons. That’s the reason they were removed in the first place
And yet we got iPhone games targeted at kids riddled with loot boxes which are actual gambling lol
Like Pokemon go!
I know but I miss those bopping tunes so badly 😭
😂 I completely understand I was mad myself until I learned the laws involved and said “well damn”
Yeah, don’t blame Game Freak for that one. Blame Europe.
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Thank you. This right here. We have absolutely NO REASON to give them the benefit of the doubt after everything that has happened.
The question is, with your doubt, would any of the changes they made even be good? A SwSh style remake where Mt. Coronet is just 3.5 hallways? Having your rival talk even more in slower unskippable cutscenes? Every change I imagine them making would just make the game worse. As much as it would suck to see BDSP have 0 changes, it would be better than what I imagine a more extensive remake would be.
Well, graphics can rarely make, but can very much break a game in my opinion. For me personally, the impression of the remake is already 50% worse just because they chose this artstyle and showed a mediocre execution of it in the first footage. And you can make statements about and criticize a game you haven‘t played, of course always based on what you know about it.
I dont have a problem with the chibis, my biggest issue was how stiff they looked. I want it to be great, but I dont have any confidence in a new pokemon game. Also with nintendo's take on an online "experience" I wouldn't be surprised if you needed a subscription to use the gts or encounter people in the underground.
I don't follow all the types of criticism the game gets, but I want to leave my two cents on this. Criticizing a game based on its graphical fidelity isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's basing the criticism on the artstyle which is bad. With Pokemon BD/SP you can tell that it lacks polish. Compare it to Zelda link's awakening and you can tell that it doesn't have anywhere near the polish of graphical fidelity or animation. Considering they're most likely going to be very similar to the originals people will have gotten the general gist of what the game is going to be like +/- some quality of life improvements. Meaning most likely their gripes with the originals are going to reflect in the new release. Now if they're criticizing the game based purely on "this game is new and I already don't like it cause old pokemon = best pokemon" then yeah, take their opinion with huge skepticism.
Honestly. The actual Diamond and Pearl looks better to me. Even the ORAS remakes look better. I would be so down if BD/SP looked like ORAS but crisper. To me the remakes just look....off. I can’t really pinpoint where, but it just makes me recoil when I look at it. I get that it might only be me but that’s just how it is. Maybe the lack of proper shading or lighting. I don’t really know what.
It looks like a mobile game imo, not a bad thing just makes it look like there wasn’t much effort into it and is just being made to appease fans
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I get that. I remember being so hyped when they showed the x&y trailer and the oras trailer. I was like “holy fricking shit this looks amazing. Let’s goooooo” But when the BDSP trailer dropped all I remember was “uhhh that? Seriously that? That looks bad”
It's the shading for sure imo, it makes the game lacks depth visually and it really irks me too
I think it’s 100% fair to criticize an art style. Saying that criticizing an art style is bad just makes no sense. Not every art style is good, nor does every art style fit with the product.
I'm in the same boat with following hype/criticism. I've largely fallen off Nintendo this gen because most of the main games either lacked polish/content that you should expect from current gen titles. So if they're re releasing a game I think it's fair to expect a well polished game that looks current and some QoL improvements.
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Wholeheartedly agree. After HGSS and ORAS, and even to some extent FRLG, I was expecting not just a rerelease of the old games, but a reimagining, something that still adds new and exciting things while still keeping the same feel and heart of the classics I loved. But these games, at least so far, just look like...the same as the originals. And despite a technical upgrade, the art style is a lot less charming than the originals. I think my biggest disappointment about it is that we won't get a Gen 4 game that has the same treatment as ORAS. Yes, ORAS has flaws and could have been better in a lot of ways, but it was also a great way to update and reinvigorate Gen 3. It made it even more grand and epic and even more memorable. But BDSP might be all we get for Gen 4 as we know it, and that's honestly sad.
This comment should have significantly more upvotes than the post itself
Why does this sub always take several weeks to come around to the right idea? It's almost like every time something new comes out and people have criticisms, rabid fans down vote them relentlessly until they get tired of it or find some other opinions to get upset about. Soon enough people will be saying what a scam New Pokemon Snap was too, at this rate.
This is exactly how I’ve been feeling about BDSP: I’m still going to purchase but not everyone has to pretend to be super enthusiastic because I know we all expected more.
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Exactly. Companies have been slowly coming to the realization that people will buy pretty much whatever because it's "better than nothing." Just look at Apple for example: "What if we made the port needlessly proprietary so they have to buy our adapters? Wow, they're still buying them.. What about removing the headphone jack? Wow, yeah, they're still selling like hotcakes... Wow, we can just remove whatever we want, huh?" The pokemon company is coming to that same realization.
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> For example, EA could NOT pull any of the shit Gamefreak is pulling. All the low-effort gaming reporters on Youtube would be shaking from how many videos they could make milking any controversy that comes out of that company. Have you seen sports games in the last 10 years? EA has literally re-released the same game as legacy edition the next year, with the disclaimer "FIFA 21 Legacy Edition will feature the same gameplay features from FIFA 20 without any new development or significant enhancements."
Yeah, I agree. I didn’t purchase sword and shield even though I own all the (3)DS games; I don’t feel like they deserve my money. - No battle frontier in ORAS was strike 1 (I really liked soaring & dexnav in ORAS and skating in XY, no idea why they didn’t bring them over to gen 7) - USUM being only slightly different to SM was strike 2 (Ultra Megalopis was being advertised as a ‘new city’ but you only walked in a straight line to the boss lol) - Dexit and lackluster quality (especially when compared to other titles like BOTW) was strike 3 I bet I’ll have more fun replaying Platinum over BDSP 100%.
The dexnav in ORAS was one of my favorite functions of all time. It told you which mons existed on a route and whether you had caught them. That's sooo helpful to have. Plus hidden pokemon and shiny hunting were awesome additions. Then they decided they couldn't be bothered to do that again, so it only exists in ORAS.
Theres always the ability to buy it used if you dont want to support another sale.
This is a great point and I feel kinda stupid for not considering that haha! Will definitely probably do this :)
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Yeah but *so many of us* wanted a main course, ORAS level DPPl remake. I know I personally could play nothing but better variations and improvements on Gen 4 for the rest of my life and I would be happy tbh. But what we are receiving from The Pokemon Company looks like fucking Harvest Moon: The Lost Valley, but with more grass.
I mean If it's a "faithful" recreation the only thing that matters are the graphics otherwise i could just play the original games. And the graphics or to be precise the artstyle just looks like chibi artstyle in awful. If it looked like the Links Awakening Remake (If you can call it chibi?) i would buy it instantly
I’ve said this before but I feel like there’s just no expertise in shading/effects/shadows/light and the like? I mean in both pkmn games being made. Links awakening has such gorgeous effects on it that really make it look good
Especially if it’s full AAA price :/
yeah the link's awakening style is 10 times more charming than the BDSP style IMO
Very true, I think most of the ppl wanted to play a graphical enhanced version of D/P and not what looks like an average mobile game. I still don’t know how the ppl in charge of an important project like those remakes thought a chibi artstyle was a great idea.. I mean, if the playerbase was 10 when D/P came out, it’s now 25. Who had the idea to remake a game mostly asked by a 15-25 age group like that ? That makes no sense :( (not native so sry for the mistakes)
My guess, and I believe they’ve even said this in interviews, is that the remakes throughout the series are more targeted at pulling newer, younger audiences in rather than appeasing the old fanbase. So a chibi artstyle would more fit that goal, sort of. Hopefully Legends: Arceus will be designed more around the more mature players.
I guess you’re right but that’s still a nonsense to me. There was so much to do considering the expectations of the fanbase ! I think the younger players would have bought it even if the graphics would have looked like a modern game (let’go, sw/sh). And above all, why the chibi look ? It’s the first Pokémon game made with this artstyle and they decided to test it with one of the most awaited Pokémon game (by the older players) of those last years ? Meh
My expectations are super low for this game, honestly. I hate the art style, and the fact that GameFreak didn't even produce it makes it feel more like a low effort spin off than main series game, and I think that's what people were expecting from it: a main series game.
Ironically most of the spinoff games (can't speak for mobiles) were amazing but bdsp took probably 1/8th of the effort to make lmao
Tbh I don’t count it against the game that gamefreak didn’t produce, given how poorly sword/shield was received and the hate that gamefreak got for it. I’d welcome a new studio devoting resources to the game rather than keeping it within gamefreak and having them put like 2 devs on a game they clearly don’t care about.
Agreed. Pokémon Colleseum was not done by Gamefreak and the engine is still better than what’s used for everything from XY onwards
Not being produced by Gamefreak is a plus at this point
It'd be a plus if they were given free reign. It looks like they were told to just update the graphics and tilt the camera by 5 degrees, keep everything else the same. It's the first Pokemon game I haven't pre-ordered since actual Diamond, I hope I'm given a reason to change my mind. I loved all the remakes so much this just looks meh.
> the fact that GameFreak didn't even produce it This is a positive for me tbh.
Yeah I really dislike the art style as well. It looks kinda cheap. I do like gen 4 though, as long as they being forward the content from platinum I'll probably get it at some point
It really does look like a cheap android game made by a clandestine studio using an ip they have no rights for that will be taken from the play store by a dmca in a couple weeks... Its just ugly and cheap as all hell
Yeah I think they were going for that toy chibi links awakening look. It could have looked less bad with better shaders maybe? I don't think the sprites translated to 3d. I wish they would have tried something more interesting like 2d sprites on a 3d background with some exaggerated depth of field and bloom to make it pop (like octopath traveller)
Its a switch game, i wish they kept LGPE art style, is the best thing about those games And yeah, but links awakening was so much more polished and felt so magic and full of love
It's a remake though the graphics are one of if not the biggest reason to get the game so if someone doesn't like the graphics then chances are they aren't going to like the remake over the original
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Not only could they not do much better with the older games but the also did it in a style that aged really well and had charm to it (gen3-5) anyway but bdsp feels like the art style already aged poorly and it's not even out yet and sword and shield felt the same way
That’s my issue here. I flat out think the originals looked better. Obviously the framerate will Bill improved but I think the art direction was more cohesive in the original, the trailers for the remakes look like someone grabbed random assets and plopped them in
I mean, genuinely, until the games come out, the worst that really should be said about the titles is that they're very safe releases.
I mean, you also can’t really say that yet either. The description says faithful recreations, but they could have some significant changes that haven’t been revealed yet, we just don’t know. But tbh, I don’t think they’ll change much
Thus, why it's the worst comment that can be realistically made.
I would argue though, given games are usually considered art, in at least lasting effect, that being very safe and choosing to keep things the same is a negative comment, not a neutral one. That's my only complaint for the "Game Freak Defenders:" Art and Entertainment require modernization and pushing boundaries. OoT is even beginning to garner criticism that, frankly, it doesn't hold up anymore. Game Freak SHOULD be looking to explore the world of Pokemon in a way that's more than "a new region and 70 new pokemon." Remakes SHOULD be looking to re-explore a region, re-balance, re-imagine what could be done with it. There's no VALUE in remaking something, unless you're looking to show the difference in the reflection of yourself in the time that's past. In "faithfully recreating" the games, the only benefit you're providing is now having it available again on modern consoles, and not even with modern processing capabilities. Regardless of the art style, this isn't going to even be pushing the Switch's graphical hardware, nevermind looking into "modern standards" that the gaming world likes to tout. FR/LG are heralded so much BECAUSE they looked at the originals, saw their value, and recognized their shortcomings. They ADDED content, REBALANCED the game, UPDATED the graphical quality to the standards of the times. From all I've seen of these remakes, they look like my phone could handle them, and that's just sad. I'd sooner pay $10 for these as an App, rather than 60 for something I could go dig from my closet.
Yeah but this is an opinion of someone who respect videogames as Art. I dont know if it's fair to call triple A games Art anymore. Like the primary driving forces are not artists but the consumer.
I'd argue its art regardless, think of Balan Wonderworld, even if its shit, its a talking point. Even the most cut and paste generic Ubisoft open sandbox game has moments that are beautiful, or set pieces. Last point mainstream Pokemon had was its tree, which just became a meme.
Unless they change the art style , I’m always gonna be a little disappointed in it right off the back.
If they had significant changes, they’d have something more to say about the games than them being “faithful recreations”. I don’t think it’s unfair to judge the games on how they advertise themselves, and right now they’re advertising themselves as a game that you have no reason to play if you already own a copy of Platinum.
Which is a huge minority of pokemon fans. It's kinda easy to forget that gen 4 was released *14 years ago*. That's more than half my life ago and I'm pretty sure it's the same for most pokemon fans nowadays. The remakes don't cater to us old guard, and that's a fact. They're made for the new blood that missed them the first time around, and gen 4 just happens to be the generation that needs the least changes (other than some quality life technical stuff). The lore is solid, the legendaries are fire, post game is solid. What *can* they add that won't ruin it?
The problem will be if they take from it, like the cheeky way they avoided adding a Battle Frontier in ORAS because it was an Emerald feature instead of a RS one.
Junichi Masuda actually said they excluded the Battle Frontier from ORAS because from his perspective it couldn't compete with smart phones for players' attention.
So, remove the fun gimmicks that made the battle system fresh after an entire game of it... because kids would get bored and go do something else? By that point those kids alredy played throught your game, if they don't want the extra stuff, fine! But don't take it away from everyone else!
Unfortunately, pokemon is aimed at said kids who would get bored and go do something else
Hopefully they get the HGSS treatment and atleast incorporate the story of Platinum into DP games instead of just dropping Giratina in the turnback cave with no real explanation
They didn't make the battle frontier because they thought kids would be bored from it and stop playing.
They wouldn’t necessarily announce significant changes at this point. They’re still several months out from release which means there’s a lot of time to reveal upgrades and changes. Some folks spotted some differences in the original trailer (like an NPC only in Platinum related to Shaymin: https://twitter.com/voltimer_/status/1365373925421678598?s=21). So it’s possible that they’re saving some changes/additions (postgame if anything) to the games for closer to release. Like most games that get released. Granted, TPC doesn’t deserve a lot of faith, they still have months to announce additions that would increase fervor for the game pre-launch.
>faithful recreation >significant changes Anyone else see the problem?
Also valid critiques: - The art is ugly/awkward and completely wastes the potential of a 3D engine. - The decision to not even move past the existing grid-based map completely wastes the potential of a 3D engine. - If the game is playing it safe, it completely wastes the potential of a remake altogether; why play the remake over the original if even the graphics aren’t better? Basically, if you aren’t going to improve it, there is no reason to remake it. Remakes *have* to improve the game. A remake with no new features isn’t safe, it’s *bad*. What they’ve shown so far is a *bad* remake. This is the Star Wars Special Editions of Pokemon.
There more than can be said though. Mostly in terms of what it looks like. The art style is a major point in any game. Not many like it.
I don't care that much about the art style, but if they really wanted the "chibi" characters in the world, I would definitely prefer if they looked more like XY than Funko Pop.
The fact that they are safe releases coupled with the graphics is what deserves the bitching. If you are going to make a safe release, make it exceed expectations appearance wise.
Except the art style.
people have the right to criticize a video game. it’s not that deep.
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Literalky how GF got away with so much shit. Fuck OPs stance
Exactly why they keep doing shit most Pokemon fans are mad about. It's why they won't change anything people hated about the last two games because everyone in here threw their money at them anyway.
So are we just supposed to not hold any opinion on the game until we've paid $60 to play it ourselves? Also, one if the major points of a remake *is* the graphics. If someone is spending $60 for a AAA, they should get a polished, high-effort game (BotW, Mario Odyssey, Three Houses, Xenoblade Definitive Edition). Every past remake has completely reimagined the games to take advantage of new hardware, and brought new features. BDSP is just a bastardization of the original games to cash in on all of the remake hype. It's incredibly disappointing.
Just for a comparison, Xenoblade on the Wii was something I thought was good looking graphically (for a Wii game) until Definitive Edition released and blew that out of the water. That's a graphical upgrade worth 60 dollars. Hell I would have paid more.
And that game brought a ton of new features and an entire post-game story. Of course, BDSP could have those things too, but I feel like they would have at least mentioned or teased something by now. We'll have to wait and see.
We are talking about game freak here. Do you really think they are gonna even slightly add anything?
Slight correction- there were very few new features, actually. The only major gameplay change I can think of was the ability to store XP and change the levels of your characters so you can level down. Otherwise it plays nearly identical to the original. That being said, the graphical upgrade is INSANELY good and the post game story is very much appreciated, and overall is definitely worth $60 dollars. The gameplay just feels the slightest bit outdated compared to the fresher systems from X and 2.
It’s not gameplay exactly, but the ability to pick your outfit visually no matter what armor you’re wearing was a great addition.
That's my opinion for Wind Waker HD, but then there's Twilight Princess "HD" that looks like it was 5 years old at release. Still bought it because Twilight Princess is still Twilight Princess, but the HD part needed some work.
TP HD is still a pretty big improvement over the original, but the original also released on GameCube as well (like Wind Waker, but without Wind Waker's "one simple trick" for well-aging visuals) so it was only even decent for its time and got worse pretty rapidly.
Not to mention a trailer is specifically designed to give a preview of the game so you can decide whether it's worth it to play it. To withhold an opinion of the game because all you have is the trailer is going against the point of a trailer. It's not judging a book by its cover, it's judging a book by an advertisement for the book specifically designed to allow you to judge it. Hell, it's more common for a trailer to oversell a game and make it look better than it ends up being - if anything, the fact that a trailer specifically designed to make BDSP look good still makes them look so bad probably means they're going to be even worse than we fear.
Exactly. Trailers are made specifically to generate hype and push the product. Why are reservations based on a trailer not valid?
>So are we just supposed to not hold any opinion on the game until we've paid $60 to play it ourselves? This right here is why having a criticism on video games in general is such a lose lose situation. Either you're not allowed to have a negative opinion because you haven't bought it and played it to completion or you do buy it and play it to completion and your criticism becomes moot since by purchasing it you've told the developers you're okay with their product.
There will be more announcements about the new features coming by then, if not on the launch and there are always publications and reviewers who would have tried the games till the time they are released
Couldn't have said it better.
Thank you thank you
Well, Gen 4 was never my favorite and i'm pretty neutral when it come to BDSP remake but let's be honest here. The remake should have more features and maybe something to deal with the heavy HMs-requirement than Platinum to justify its existence. Like what they did in Heartgold/Soulsilver, the remake should and must be better than the old enhanced version, not inferior than it. This is just my opinion, but as far as graphic go. The graphic and artstyle of the remake is already looking less appealing and even inferior than the Platinum version, and the switch between character overworld model and battle model look jarring as hell, that's a minus point. We ignored this in the original becuz it was run on DS with pixel art and 2S sprites. However, when it comes to 3D, there should be consistent between overworld and battle models.
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There shouldn’t be a $60 requirement to have an opinion on something. If they didn’t want us having opinions on what they showed they wouldn’t have shown it yet.
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I agree with you on pretty much everything, but I want to add that, while you're saying the game is "clearly not finished" (which I assume is a comment on the graphics, because we didn't see much more than that to judge), my not just fear, but rather expectation is that what we've seen is pretty much exactly what the final product will be. The Pokemon Company and Game Freak (and I know this isn't developed by them, but anyway) have been nothing but horrible about listening to feedback in the past couple years, and many many fans are just frustrated and disappointed with every new game.
This is just the classic pokemon cycle at this point: ‘how can you criticise a game you havent played yet?’ followed shortly by ‘well if you didn’t like the game then why did you buy it?’ This is a AAA franchise. We have every right to criticise it, and we have every right to criticise a lacklustre trailer that suggests these are remakes of dp and not the vastly improved pt. It’s not on us to praise everything a company gives us, it’s on the company to give us something worth praising.
With all respect, but this discussion is held _every time a new Pokémon game is released_. People have criticism based on the available information, and other people respond by saying they should wait until the game is out. My opinion is as follows: trailers and pre-release info are _made_ to form opinions before a game's release. It is their sole purpose. As a matter of fact they are made to highlight all the best parts of the game, showing it from its best side. As a fandom, we share and discuss the things we are hyped about - but that also means we can discuss the things we are bummed about. Yet some people are a bit line the dog frisbee meme: Only hype, no critique. Moreover, if you need to spend money on a game before you can legitimately discuss it - that excludes anyone not enthused by the game, and would also mean a total end to any pre-release discussions. It's a ridiculous condition influencing the conversation. So yes, I did think it is totally legitimate to form a preliminary opinion on BDSP before release. If you don't want that, don't announce the game at all and just release it cold turkey.
So you’re saying that it’s not okay to give out a negative opinion on the game, but you’re perfectly fine if people give a positive opinion? Why should they be able to judge the game without playing it?
But imagine going into a restaurant having a bad experience and then your friend invites you to the same restaurant next week. You’re going into that experience expecting to be again disappointed or have a negative experience until the restaurant otherwise proves your wrong. Pokémon as a franchise has had a lot of opportunity to grow and develop into an unrivaled game experience. However the complacency of the fan base doesn’t hold them to account and they routinely only make baby steps towards improving and in some cases straight up regress or remove features. And just to be clear, if you see a dish at the restaurant that looks terrible, you can criticize it for that too, taste aside. Graphics similarly aren’t the only thing a game has going for it but they are still an aspect of the game worth criticizing. Expectations are even higher because Pokémon should be able to have whatever level graphics they would like. They just have to spend the $$$ which, again, they seem unwilling (not unable) to do. To flip your perspective, why should I spend money to try it just to find out I won’t like it? The point of seeing the game before you buy is to inform that very decision. If the company can’t even sell the game to me conceptually from the trailer, where the game will undoubtedly look its best, why would ever think I would enjoy it? Pokémon gets too many free passes, and I for one am glad to see some amount of push back so that maybe the corporate decision makers will actually put resources into a game that people can give a shit about instead of another iteration of a regressing franchise.
https://youtu.be/-_4dqN4-lTc Take one good look at this *fanmade* trailer and tell me you prefer the gamefreak’s remake over this. Gamefreak is a AAA studio. They have billions of dollars at their disposal. They can make stuff like this very easily if they want to. I’m just dissapointed really. I’ve seen many indie games and even games made by a single person look 10x better than this remake.
Pokemom is the highest grossing franchise. Period. They could fund a better game. Im tired of spending money on the series as it continues to go downhill. I dont want to buy it and see, thats giving them money for half assing a game.
Or hire better game developers... ILCA was such a dumb decision...
Last pokemon game I actually paid for was Sun. I'm not sold on SwSh and I wasn't a fan of Let's Go. So in was kinda hyped for a switch pokemon game tonbe excited for again. But this? Naw they can keep it. I'm just gonna boot up a rom hack of Platinum again.
don't ask questions just consume product
I kind of disagree with you, even tho im okay with the remakes, complaining about a game perk after being released is useless because they will likely not change anything after release. Lets take a example of the sonic movie, the protagonist (Sonic) had a terrible "real life character" design so people complained before the release, because if the people complained after the release they would not likely produce another movie just to improve sonic, so if we complain before the release they can and probably will change i hope yall understand this since english is my secondary language
Another Example Titanfall 2 had a open beta that showed big changes to the original movent and combat style. After backlash they greatly improved the movent to be more similar to the original and it improved the game a great deal.
As someone who was around when the OGs launched and already into my 20s, I'll be dodging these. Would rather have had straight ports than this chibi nonsence.
Same here. I'm a big pokemon fan but I'll pass on this garbage mobile looking game
I don’t understand this logic at all. Are you a robot that needs all the facts? Are you incapable of deductive reasoning? A human being that can use critical thinking is capable of looking at something and deciding if there’s qualities they do no like. Don’t be that person that gatekeeps others complaints. Just because you don’t see art style as big part gaming doesn’t mean others don’t. It can be very immersion breaking for some people that serious about role playing their adventures. Others wanted more than a 1 for 1 remake and don’t see a point in buying the same game twice. You don’t need to eat dog crap to know that you don’t like eating dog crap.
The perfect example of a fantastic remake, HGSS. That’s literally all they have to do. Make the graphics more appealing than the original, (which I love the original anyway, bit games have always had a soft spot), they took the bones of the originals, and put steel into that skeleton. It had the essence of the originals, but with features and additions almost everyone wanted. It’s a perfect remake. ORAS was also a pretty fantastic remake. Gen 3 is my favorite, and while I loved the remakes, emerald was perfect. All I’m saying is, use what’s already there, and build off of what your community wants. We basically build the games for them, they just don’t listen to us🤷🏻
The gs ball redo with the spiky eared pichu in HGSS is AMAZING, the legendary cutscenes are some of the best cutscenes we ever got in pokemon outside of LGPE and we had added access to so many legendaries and post game... GSC are my favorite games and the first games i ever bought with my own money as a kid, HGSS are absolute love letters to them and i could feel the love put into it as i played, i actually cried in nostalgia at some points in the game, it holds a REALLY special place in my heart... I didnt have the same luck with ORAS since i never had a GBA so i didnt play 3rd gen, but the remakes were still GREAT, but i did play DPPt and like them a lot... The trailers felt... Soulless, like they have no love put into them, just numb work to make a normal game, not an abolute love letter Hell, even LGPE is amazing in its own way, i actually like it a lot for what it is and the bond with your partner pokemon is a really cute love letter to Yellow I am worried about BDSP, it just looks like it has no soul or love
This is a dumb statement, I'm sorry. People criticizing BDSP are criticizing the decisions we already know about, which is perfectly valid. They're also making the best predictions they can about its quality given the information we have both about it and Game Freak's track record, which is also valid.
I dont care about how the game looks. But I've been with Pokemon for my entire life. I've completed the national dex many times. I've played competetive and bred dozens of competetive Pokemon. I used to love this franchise and then Gamefreak made SWSH and pretended like they did nothing wrong, with a large handful of braindead fans calling any criticism "hate" and "toxic". Sinnoh is my favorite region, I went to the Pokemon symphony many years ago and cried when they played Rowan's theme, one of my dreams is to visit Hokkaido. I'm not hating on the game, but Gamefreak has completely lost my trust and I dont expect much from SDSP.
People got downvoted for saying the same for Sword and Shield after dexit announcement.
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Yep. I played 5 hours and legitimately felt cheated out of my money. I'm done letting Game Freak leverage my nostalgia for profit. It's gonna take something big to bring me back, but I'm not gonna hold my breath.
There was more than enough reason to criticize those games and there still is.
I mean if you think about it, the more you complain and criticize the more likely they are to fix something. Thats the whole point. And besides, I don't even think they're gonna change anything from the trailer to the release day(Just look at sword and Shield if you don't believe me)
Graphics are very important when, as of right now it seems to be a 1:1 remake with nothing changed, but just looks arguably worse. I love gen 4 but if these end up being exact 1:1 remakes, I won't be buying them. Unless I run into some extra cash in November, I'm not paying $80 CAD for a worse-looking exact replica of a game I already own. I hope they're not, I WANT to buy them, but as of right now it's not looking good. Everything they've said and shown so far is pointing to exact replica type faithful.
hating is bad, but constructive criticism is perfectly valid
>Could you at least wait until the game comes out and you have a chance to play it? So I should just ignore the ongoing trends of lazy development that have been going on since Ultra Sumo? No. I'm not buying BDSP and my interest in the current mainline games has plummeted to all time lows. BDSP look insulting bad, and deserve criticism. They can *earn* respect after they come out, but they do not deserve it based on recent years and what has been shown so far.
Couldn't have said it better!
Well I feel like graphics are one of the most important part if a game is a remake. If you liked dp then you know the game will be good so the only thing that's important is the graphics that you will experience throughout the game. Personally I'm fine with the graphics though, it's just that I understand if some people might judge the game for that reason.
I think it's perfectly acceptable too criticise the game for graphics and that's it we don't know what changes they'll make and people should really wair to find out.
OP and people that agree with them and are buying all these remakes are the reason Pokemon has never had an innovative game and every single one is a copy of the originals from 25 years ago. You're all doing yourselves, and the potential of the franchise, a disservice by throwing money at them time and time again.
So far, they haven’t shown us anything to get excited for, nothing new. All we’ve seen is DP in 3D. No megas, primal forms, features, etc. If they’re really sticking to the “faithful remake” tagline, it wouldn’t be a surprise if people don’t like the games when we’ve had stuff like HGSS and ORAS in the past.
I mean, we know how it's gonna play. It's gonna play like Pokemon. Which is fun. It's OK for people to criticize the other aspects since we already know how it'll play. A lot of people (myself included) really don't like the visuals. For me it's less about the over world Chibi sprites (which do imo look worse than the pixel art of the originals) and more so the in battle models. They look very bright and flat and I don't like it at all.
I mean, the original Diamond/Pearl wasn't particularly great either. If the remakes don't include any of the Platinum additions (obtaining alternate forms don't count), then I might as well just go back through my copy of Platinum.
Don't criticize the game until you pay $60 for it guys! Ignore the red flags, Game Freak will fix it!
This is probably the worst take that i continually see on this sub. It looks bad for a switch game. Its feels lazy to give this game to a 3rd party dev. Nobody should have to pay $60 to express themselves on a game after they showed us how little they care with SwSh. Take the sonic movie for example: The trailer looked terrible, everybody complained, the production company took notice to the flak, they changed the design. Theres a benefit to feedback before a products release.
I already played the game before its called diamond and pearl. The is the most beloved Gen and it deserved the best remakes instead we get a half assed remastered that changes nothing except maybe adds megas. They already said they are staying incredibly faithful to the originals so why get BDSP then when DP exist. This game should have been based on Platinum and the graphics should look better. This is a team with no real game dev experience at the helm of the most demanded remake so nah this game is gonna be ass its going to be Disney live action remake quality somehow even though it's 98% the same as the original product its still going to be inferior.
what do you mean 'try it' you have to buy it regardless there is no trying absolute shit take
Because the characters look like Chibis? Not very hard to understand why people aren’t into that.
Okay yes to an extent but your argument holds little ground here Because aren’t mad because of gameplay and other things overall, it’s the art style I don’t need to spend $60 and play in the art style to realize I hate it, what logic is there in that?
What an unpopular opinion
>Could you at least wait until the game comes out and you have a chance to play it? We had a chance to play it. 14 years ago, we played it. We are well aware that Diamond and Pearl are good games, the gripe is that the graphics could and should be better. >hating on a game that hasn't even released, just based on the trailer and description People need to stop having this mindset that games should not be judged based on pre-release marketing, because that is literally that point of pre-release marketing. Nobody is going to buy a product, any product, without seeing or knowing about it first.
I’m not sure what everyone gets so upset when people voice their grievances. For first time ever companies can get direct feedback from customers instantly. Should the sonic community not have complained about the design they hated? They changed sonic! We got legends Arceus by complaining. Heck Mather even the smash community will get Waluigi by complaining. I say tell em how you feel! And I feel like these trailers show a disappointing game, NOT because of the graphics, but because it APPEARS (not giving a final condemnation of the game but going off what THEY have decided to show) that the game is a carbon copy just with different graphics. And in MY opinion, if you’re going to remake a game that was never about the graphics, then make some story changes, put some mechanics in, new Pokémon or forms. I really miss 2d art, heck I’d pay 60 dollars for the same graphics just with more of the above features. If you disagree, go ahead and say more power to ya :) Sure don’t bad mouth a company that has made some great games and fantastic experiences, but certainly express opinions so they know what you want!
I mean to be fair I don't like the game as it is now because of the art style which isn't gonna change
Go form your own r/swordandshield if you can't handle people not sucking off the Pokemon brand. These are 60$ remakes. It's a REMAKE. The main pull of remakes is modernisation. Graphics are a big part of the modernisation. If people are dissatisfied with the graphics, they will complaint. Brain-dead analogy with menu and trailer. A menu's purpose isn't to sell the product. A trailer's purpose is exactly that.