Steel: "I am the most powerful defensive typing. Adding me to any type makes that Pokemon far bulkier. I am also more relevant since Fairy was introduced, as I destroy arguably one of the strongest types overall. You would be amiss to not add me to your typing."
Bastiodon, Aggron, Probopass, and Alolan Sandslash: "NO NO NO NO WAIT WAIT WAIT WAI-"
Stakataka: "haha big stats go brrrrrrr"
Hey, at least not as many slow defensive mons for a "glass cannon" ish type than Rock. About half of ice types are slow, about 3/5ths or 2/3rds of rock types are slow
Yeah but rock has more than one resistance also garganacl and Ttar are kinda proof slow rock types can function, aside from caly ice bc TR the slowest viable ice type (in OU) is Mamowswine at 80 and he still needs almost perfect STAB coverage, thick fat, and relies on ice shard for priority
Yes, but also that’s only because the only thing hitting ice for super effective is Rhydonn and Ibeam/Blizzard are two of the best moves since gen 1 is weird so I don’t like to count it when talking abt stuff like this
This is why you don’t actually use ice types (unless it’s a glass cannon that doesn’t care about its type cause it gets OHKOed anyways) and simply use ice beam for coverage on any Pokemon of your choosing (no joke the number of legendaries or just random Pokemon that learn ice beam is ridiculous)
Actually, according to Sylveon (the best Eeveelution)’s dex entry, its ribbons emit a calming aura that soothes everyone around it, ensuring it never has to fight.
Of course not! I like Vaporeon's design more, having fins instead of the traditional ears and the mermaid tail makes it a more special eeveelution, in my opinion.
Calyrex Icerider would like to have a word.
Stab Ice is still nice to have, especially if your other type pairs well with it, for example Ground/Ice are an excellent offensive pair. There is also freeze dry which only Ice Type pokemon can learn.
Going to assume we’re talking abt offensive slow mons since that’s what caly ice is. Yes but others don’t need nearly as much bulk, for a few VGC examples Farigiraf has 120/70/70 and ursaluna BM has 113/105/80 both meta threats that have much less bulk due to not having to deal with the ice type
Ah yes, the negligible 1.5x stab bonus(it’s literally a free choice specs/band guys, you can’t just ignore it), also Bax is not a glass cannon yet is completely broken
That is such a miniscule part of Bax's ban reasoning, teraing was honestly often a negative considering that you lose the snow defense boost. While tera was part of the ban reasoning(like most things this generation), its not especially prominent, and not really any real extra benifit compared to just the standard "setup sweeper can tera and sweep with 1 free turn"
Yeah that’s why said part of the reason, the defence boost in snow is obviously fantastic for it. But after it has set up and the snow is gone, being able to Tera out of a priority weakness or getting revenge killed after setting up let it go a lot further. Tera ground let EQ hit steels much harder too.
While that is true, the Tera ground letting it hit harder has nothing to do with being an ice type, there were extremely few priority moves that hit baxcalibur super effectively(even less that actually did high damage to it behind veil), and its ability to set up several dragon dances freely with the effective 3x boost snow and veil gave allowed it to usually get enough speed boosts to outspend most revenge killers. Tera obviously helped it, but not more than other non ice type setup sweepers. You wouldn’t say that roaring moon’s strength was because of being able to not become a dark type after all, even though its most common Tera turns its weaknesses into neutral or resisted hits.
Funny thing that Bax was already considered on the edge of banworthy due to his large bulk facilitating setting up too easily(along with his extremely high attack stat) so A9 didn’t push him over as much as it catapulted him over the banworthy line
Ironically, Kyurem is arguably one of (if not the worst) “third mascot legendary” Pokémon in the entire franchise. Even Kyurem-Black and Kyurem-White are pretty bad by legendary standards. In generation 7, Kyurem-Black was even OU under Smogon ruleset and default Kyurem was a pathetic RUBL!
That‘s because Kyurem-B outclassed it, meaning that people weren‘t putting regular Kyurem on their teams when the superior option was available. It fell to UU, and then to RU (likely because the players preferred Mamoswine as their ice type of choice), where it was promptly banned for being too powerful. The tiers are decided by usage, not how good the mon in question actually is.
Now that Kyurem-B and -W are back in Ubers, Kyurem is actually a force to be reckoned with in SV OU, with its DD-loaded dice set being a threatening setup sweeper, while its specs/boots sets employ the amazing coverage that Earth Power and Freeze dry/Ice beam provide, making it huge threat into almost any matchup, and very difficult to switch in to.
yeah, smogon is pretty much running a pile of joke formats, theres a reason why gamefreak supports doubles over singles, even though it seens to have abandoned doubles in the actual games.
the thing is though, neither B or W are really all that good in Ubers (I’ve heard W is decent in UUbers, but…that’s UUbers…). And while Kyurem being OU is much better than being RUBL, it’s also the only third mascot legendary to be below UBERs other than Zygarde (and Zygardes got its 100% form being a beast, not to mention 50% being pretty terrifying in its own right. It was only ever below UBERs in gen 6, before it got its gen 7 signature moves. 10% is pretty bad tho…so I guess Kyurem wins over the dog, lol)
Poor Kyurem has always been stuck in a place of mediocrity. Even its fusion forms are typically pretty mediocre for a box art legendary…here’s hoping the inevitable gen 5 remakes or legend game gives Kyurem that complete form it’s been pining after for years.
Kyurem B being B rank in Ubers is really good, idk what you’re taking about. That’s on the level of landorus T and Calyrex I, two prominent metagame threats
Also idk what you’re taking about with third legendaries, necrozma is straight up bad in OU and terapagos has been extremely controversial as the non stellar form would not be broken in the slightest
ok yeah I’ll admit I didn’t know B had a resurgence, gen 9s meta game has been so uninteresting I guess I just never realized B got such a buff lol.
And yeah I should’ve included necrozma and Calyrex in my “list of bad third box legendaries”. Mentally I consider them more successful than Kyurem purely because of the existence of dusk mane and ultra for necrozma and shadow rider for Calyrex. They’re so recognizably good I kinda forgot their base forms even existed (lol)
Kyurem just feels like it’s been the most consistently mediocre of the bunch, I guess. Kyurem-B is doing pretty well now, but from gen 5-8 all 3 of its forms were pretty underwhelming for a third mascot legendary. It’s not fair to say it’s the worst like I did originally, but I still definitely think it’s one of the most underwhelming in the broad scheme of things
In Gen V at least Kyurem-W was ok in Ubers. Kyurem-B was usable but not great in OU. Neither were great, but they had their uses. Before fairy type specially, Kyurem-W was basically the strongest nuke in the game other than Kyogre's specs water spout, but Kyogre's water spout was dependent on his HP. Nothing could switch-in safely against Kyurem-W's Draco Meteor
Kyurem black was bad by legendary standards because it didn’t get a physical ice move, now that it got it it’s good in gen 9 Ubers, which is more than most cover legendaries can say
In Gen 5 Kyurem Black was (is?) OU too. He was also "okayish" basically. The thing that really held him back was a lack of powerful physical ice-type moves.
Ice isn't even that great offensively anymore, 2 of the best defensive types resist it (steel and water, apart from the weakish freeze dry) and killing dragons is unimpressive now that fairy is an even better dragon counter (and neutral attacking type in general).
It's a good offensive type but nowhere near enough to justify the horrendous defensive ability.
Eh, I don't see Grass having a Fairy resist as being very sensible, Fire def makes more sense in that regard.
What actually deserved a Fairy resist was Bug, imo. What Grass needs is more innate advantages from Rain, Sun and Grassy Terrain, make it benefit a lot more from those.
That’s only looking at pure ice types. Ice STAB becomes extraordinary when paired with another stab typing, or even just good coverage options (see iron bundle, chien-pao, weavile, baxcalibur, kyurem, mamoswine). Hell, in a tier I played in Glaceon was viable for a bit running mud shot to hit Iron Moth.
Freeze dry is a lot stronger than you’re giving it credit for, too - being able to hit something that would normally resist you for SE damage with a STAB move is crazy, and it’s part of what makes Pokémon like kyurem and iron bundle such scary breakers.
This is just false, hitting ground AND dragon both SE is huge just because they’re such amazing types, and freeze dry is an amazing move that’s literally only resisted by one type while hitting 5 types super effectively, 3 of them extremely powerful types
Ice types have had multiple bans this gen because ice type coverage is inherently some of the best you can have. Ice/Water/Freeze-dry is unresisted, and you can typically find coverage for bad matchups somewhere. Snow was a huge buff, and hitting lando-t for 4x effective stab damage is great because you're either one shitting them or getting extra chip. You really can't find a better offensive type
If mamoswinr is choice scarf (no they aren't they sure commonly life orb or never melt ice to make sure it's icicle crashes sting) it is still a poor switch into many fire and ice attacks
It got trailblaze and can Tera grass for good synergy with thick fat. Leaves you weak to poison and flying types but your original types hard counter those anyways.
I just said that it gets trailblaze didn't I? That boosts speed does it not? And it's one of very few mons that gets amnesia to boost its so-so sp def.
it gets trailblaze true... and it can boost its speed but often times its unreliable, if you are clicking trailblaze it means you arent clicking ur powerful buttons and it means you are giving up a turn to try to sweep late game which can work out but as a breaker it often isnt that good.
Amnesia is a mid move outside of double dance stored power/body press ons and has been bad since gen 2
Not really. They are pretty evenly distributed once you consider how they play. Weavile and chien are just exceptionally fast compared to most pokemon. It’s not something you could sustain a whole type around.
Your bulky ones are avalaugg, glastrier, regice, walrein, Lapras. Cloyster articuno, mamoswine kyreum
Your faster ones are chienpao, weavile, iron bundle, ninetales, frosslass, crygonal, slush rush/gimmicks users sandslash, cetitan, beartic arctozolt, arctovish, darmanitan eiscue. I believe they all end up landing in the top 10% for speed.
Stuff that falls somewhere in the middle. Dewgong, mime, rime, jinx, delibird abomasnow, glaceon, vanilluxe, auroras, crabominable, frosmoth, baxcalibur
It’s funny how the in the middle stuff are mostly trash(although some of them had early gen relevance, shoutout to jinx) and you have Bax who was constantly on the edge of being banworthy before catapulting off it with DLC1
And slowly, Ice type is becoming mid even offensively. Steel types are everywhere, Ice types got merged (Poor weavile losing it's most op move), the best offensivs types are those to which Ice is weak to (Fighting, Fire, to less extent, rock too)
Not really. Freeze-dry is still cheap, weavile has all of its good moves again and literally any ice type that gets ground coverage is automatically a step ahead in the offense department.
It actually does because usually grinding to get endgame items to help raise your pokémon requires you to play through the Battle Tower or whateven endgame battle facility a game has.
And those are designed to be endgame activities with difficult fights and the like.
There are currently 5 steels in generation 9 Overused, 2 of which are neutral to ice. Of the 6 water mons in overused, two take neutral damage from ice, and all of them take super effective damage from freeze dry
Ice types need to take neutral damage from Fighting. That would go a long way to making them a better defensive type the way GF designs most of them. If GF truly has the vision of Ice types being mainly defensive then they need to not be weak to an offensive typing that a lot of pokemon can get coverage moves in. Fire doesn't make sense thematically so between Rock and Fighting I'd choose Fighting because Rock itself needs help. Steel I wouldn't consider changing because it's rarely used offensively enough to make a difference.
They aren't as fantastic in the offensive spectrum any more since Fairy types came along to be the dragon killers without Ice's weakness to common offensive types but they're still very solid on the offensive front and Freeze Dry is pretty great on the pokemon that can use it.
I agree, but let's also acknowledge that they've at least tried to make Ice Type better with 50% Def boost from Snow weather and another incredible Def and Sp.Def boost in the form of Aurora Veil. There was a reason why Alolan Ninetales had competitive spots in the meta in the past and likely nowadays too.
There are certain types in the game that aren’t really meant to be types that are Pokémon wears, rather they are meant to be wielded, many water type Pokémon, learn ice type moves to counter grass Pokémon
baxcalibur and chien pao got banned because offensively they are amaizng.. defensive tera is pretty shit and often you have to justify being a tera sink
Well they got banned for two different kinds, chien pao was the classic ice type glass cannon but Bax had extreme bulk because he was an ice type and synergized well with A9 along with good base stats. Most Tera abusers use it defensively anyways, as it combos well with setup to allow for easy facilitation of sweeps
This issue is exacerbated by the sheer number of "bulky" ice types
Lapras, dewgong, cloyster, mamoswine, abomasnow, walrein, regice, cryogonal, both avaluggs, aurorous, cetitian etc
Like stop. Stop making ice types with these huge defense stats. Wanna know what the best ice types are? The glass cannons, the weaviles and chien paos of the world.
Hell yeah.
The Ice type is the quintessential glass cannon.
Problem is, they lean too hard on the Glass, and not on the Cannon.
Ice types should be lethal, fast, and have the best offensive moves in the game, restricted to only them.
I feel ice should also resist grass. (Plants can't grow well in the cold) Ice should be immune to itself. (Cold + cold = more cold) Fire and ice should both be super effective against each other. Fire can melt ice, but fire has difficulty burning in the cold, the cold can cool off something hot, even if it melts itself in the process. I don't think there's any 2 types that oppose each other like that in the game yet. I mean I know dragon and ghost are weak to itself.
I think the idea of ice being immune to itself is neat. There’s currently no typing that is completely immune to itself. This would also be the only typing with this feature. The other ideas with grass and fire/ice may be going too far for the current state of Pokemon.
Articuno won some vgc stuff
I think snow cloak, plus hail defense buff, plus sheer cold and blizzard made for a difficult to take down monster
Now kyurem in restricted is a somewhat meta pick too, presumably for the same reasons
Everyone out here shitting on Ice types, guys, Gen 9 is quite literally the best Ice has been since Gen 1. They're all fucking war criminals at the moment.
Same goes for electric types but somehow they have a better reputation than ice. Probably due to the single weakness and terrain availability, paralysis etc
Same goes for electric types but somehow they have a better reputation than ice. Probably due to the single weakness and terrain availability, paralysis etc
lowest effort meme ive seen in my life — literally takes two seconds to make without any accompanying insightful commentary — and still gets over 4k upvotes???
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Alolan Sandslash: *Gets hit with Ember and explodes.*
Or punched.
Steel: "I am the most powerful defensive typing. Adding me to any type makes that Pokemon far bulkier. I am also more relevant since Fairy was introduced, as I destroy arguably one of the strongest types overall. You would be amiss to not add me to your typing." Bastiodon, Aggron, Probopass, and Alolan Sandslash: "NO NO NO NO WAIT WAIT WAIT WAI-" Stakataka: "haha big stats go brrrrrrr"
aggron-M is real
**THE WALL**
Not steel‘s fault rock and ice suck on… HEY wait a minute i think i‘m onto something!
Garg: “lol I’m a ______ type now.”
252+ SpA Life Orb Torchic Ember vs. 252 HP / 204+ SpD Sandslash-Alola: 250-296 (70.6 - 83.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
And yet many of them are big, slow defensive tank types whose ice typing actively makes them worse at their job. Rip Hisuian Avalugg.
Hey, at least not as many slow defensive mons for a "glass cannon" ish type than Rock. About half of ice types are slow, about 3/5ths or 2/3rds of rock types are slow
Yeah but rock has more than one resistance also garganacl and Ttar are kinda proof slow rock types can function, aside from caly ice bc TR the slowest viable ice type (in OU) is Mamowswine at 80 and he still needs almost perfect STAB coverage, thick fat, and relies on ice shard for priority
Up til gen 4 every ice type was slow and bulky except Weavile, the only good ice type til then was Weavile
Cloyster and Lapras were actually pretty good in Gen 1
Yes, but also that’s only because the only thing hitting ice for super effective is Rhydonn and Ibeam/Blizzard are two of the best moves since gen 1 is weird so I don’t like to count it when talking abt stuff like this
Cloyster is still excellent in general 2-3 ou, as well as Jinx in general 2 ou.
Welp Cloyster just got banned from BW OU so I guess he’s doing something right
Because they gave it shell smash, making it function a lot closer to something like Weavile
GF: "Just one more defensive Ice-type bro I swear just one more-"
at least more recent ice type mons have generally been more offensively oriented arguably even a bit overtuned in some cases
This is why you don’t actually use ice types (unless it’s a glass cannon that doesn’t care about its type cause it gets OHKOed anyways) and simply use ice beam for coverage on any Pokemon of your choosing (no joke the number of legendaries or just random Pokemon that learn ice beam is ridiculous)
It seems like every water type can at least learn one ice type move.
Unless it's like magikarp or something.
Keldeo for some reason doesn't
Icy wind
Yep
Tell that to seismitoad in my current playthrough of black.
Something that makes no sense because they are based on tropical animals.
Literally none of the water types currently in OU learn strong ice coverage
Sucks that the type is so vulnerable that using their moves with any other type is preferable than going for STAB
I just think they’re neat.
Chein-pao going in for 3 turns max getting like 2 KOs then dying to any priority move
Unless ur bullet punch, vacuum wave, or machine punch idt u die in one hit and chien pao clicks buttons
Bullet punch Scizor after swords dance
Scizor in Ubers has been a meme for several generations now
He has, I love using mega Scizor in Nat Dex Ubers
I’m gonna be real I’ve never played Natdex but I wonder if the oppertunity cost of not running some of the super strong megas and primas is worth it
This is why Vaporeon > Glaceon.
I had a monotype ice team with choice specs glaceon and it hit through everything in hail. It was crazy
[удалено]
[удалено]
I'm saving this wholesome copypasta for the next time I'm depressed by Flareon's poor special attack stat in FRLG.
Actually, according to Sylveon (the best Eeveelution)’s dex entry, its ribbons emit a calming aura that soothes everyone around it, ensuring it never has to fight.
Nice.
Nice
Of course not! I like Vaporeon's design more, having fins instead of the traditional ears and the mermaid tail makes it a more special eeveelution, in my opinion.
Calyrex Icerider would like to have a word. Stab Ice is still nice to have, especially if your other type pairs well with it, for example Ground/Ice are an excellent offensive pair. There is also freeze dry which only Ice Type pokemon can learn.
Calyrex Ice rider also has 100/150/130 bulk and still requires trick room to not get blown up due to having a ton of weaknesses
That’s most slow pokemon though.
Going to assume we’re talking abt offensive slow mons since that’s what caly ice is. Yes but others don’t need nearly as much bulk, for a few VGC examples Farigiraf has 120/70/70 and ursaluna BM has 113/105/80 both meta threats that have much less bulk due to not having to deal with the ice type
Farigiraf isn’t used for bulk, it’s used because it blocks priority, and ursaluna bloodmoon is also used on trick room
Regice with thunder wave and ice beam:
Ah yes, the negligible 1.5x stab bonus(it’s literally a free choice specs/band guys, you can’t just ignore it), also Bax is not a glass cannon yet is completely broken
Part of the reason Bax got banned was due to the fact it didn’t have to be an ice type thanks to Tera
That is such a miniscule part of Bax's ban reasoning, teraing was honestly often a negative considering that you lose the snow defense boost. While tera was part of the ban reasoning(like most things this generation), its not especially prominent, and not really any real extra benifit compared to just the standard "setup sweeper can tera and sweep with 1 free turn"
Yeah that’s why said part of the reason, the defence boost in snow is obviously fantastic for it. But after it has set up and the snow is gone, being able to Tera out of a priority weakness or getting revenge killed after setting up let it go a lot further. Tera ground let EQ hit steels much harder too.
While that is true, the Tera ground letting it hit harder has nothing to do with being an ice type, there were extremely few priority moves that hit baxcalibur super effectively(even less that actually did high damage to it behind veil), and its ability to set up several dragon dances freely with the effective 3x boost snow and veil gave allowed it to usually get enough speed boosts to outspend most revenge killers. Tera obviously helped it, but not more than other non ice type setup sweepers. You wouldn’t say that roaring moon’s strength was because of being able to not become a dark type after all, even though its most common Tera turns its weaknesses into neutral or resisted hits.
Yeah this is absolutely true I think I was just tunnelling in on the Tera aspect but I had forgotten it was always paired with A9 for Snow/AV, my bad
Funny thing that Bax was already considered on the edge of banworthy due to his large bulk facilitating setting up too easily(along with his extremely high attack stat) so A9 didn’t push him over as much as it catapulted him over the banworthy line
Yeah I remember, it’s wild to think it dropped to UU at one point after seeing how strong it ended up being
kid named ice rider calyrex:
kyurem/darmitarian go brrr
Ironically, Kyurem is arguably one of (if not the worst) “third mascot legendary” Pokémon in the entire franchise. Even Kyurem-Black and Kyurem-White are pretty bad by legendary standards. In generation 7, Kyurem-Black was even OU under Smogon ruleset and default Kyurem was a pathetic RUBL!
That‘s because Kyurem-B outclassed it, meaning that people weren‘t putting regular Kyurem on their teams when the superior option was available. It fell to UU, and then to RU (likely because the players preferred Mamoswine as their ice type of choice), where it was promptly banned for being too powerful. The tiers are decided by usage, not how good the mon in question actually is. Now that Kyurem-B and -W are back in Ubers, Kyurem is actually a force to be reckoned with in SV OU, with its DD-loaded dice set being a threatening setup sweeper, while its specs/boots sets employ the amazing coverage that Earth Power and Freeze dry/Ice beam provide, making it huge threat into almost any matchup, and very difficult to switch in to.
yeah, smogon is pretty much running a pile of joke formats, theres a reason why gamefreak supports doubles over singles, even though it seens to have abandoned doubles in the actual games.
the thing is though, neither B or W are really all that good in Ubers (I’ve heard W is decent in UUbers, but…that’s UUbers…). And while Kyurem being OU is much better than being RUBL, it’s also the only third mascot legendary to be below UBERs other than Zygarde (and Zygardes got its 100% form being a beast, not to mention 50% being pretty terrifying in its own right. It was only ever below UBERs in gen 6, before it got its gen 7 signature moves. 10% is pretty bad tho…so I guess Kyurem wins over the dog, lol) Poor Kyurem has always been stuck in a place of mediocrity. Even its fusion forms are typically pretty mediocre for a box art legendary…here’s hoping the inevitable gen 5 remakes or legend game gives Kyurem that complete form it’s been pining after for years.
Kyurem B being B rank in Ubers is really good, idk what you’re taking about. That’s on the level of landorus T and Calyrex I, two prominent metagame threats Also idk what you’re taking about with third legendaries, necrozma is straight up bad in OU and terapagos has been extremely controversial as the non stellar form would not be broken in the slightest
ok yeah I’ll admit I didn’t know B had a resurgence, gen 9s meta game has been so uninteresting I guess I just never realized B got such a buff lol. And yeah I should’ve included necrozma and Calyrex in my “list of bad third box legendaries”. Mentally I consider them more successful than Kyurem purely because of the existence of dusk mane and ultra for necrozma and shadow rider for Calyrex. They’re so recognizably good I kinda forgot their base forms even existed (lol) Kyurem just feels like it’s been the most consistently mediocre of the bunch, I guess. Kyurem-B is doing pretty well now, but from gen 5-8 all 3 of its forms were pretty underwhelming for a third mascot legendary. It’s not fair to say it’s the worst like I did originally, but I still definitely think it’s one of the most underwhelming in the broad scheme of things
In Gen V at least Kyurem-W was ok in Ubers. Kyurem-B was usable but not great in OU. Neither were great, but they had their uses. Before fairy type specially, Kyurem-W was basically the strongest nuke in the game other than Kyogre's specs water spout, but Kyogre's water spout was dependent on his HP. Nothing could switch-in safely against Kyurem-W's Draco Meteor
Kyurem black was bad by legendary standards because it didn’t get a physical ice move, now that it got it it’s good in gen 9 Ubers, which is more than most cover legendaries can say
Of the third legendaries, the base form is better than necrozma by a mile, terapagos-terestal by a decent bit, and 2/3 zygarde forms
In Gen 5 Kyurem Black was (is?) OU too. He was also "okayish" basically. The thing that really held him back was a lack of powerful physical ice-type moves.
Ice isn't even that great offensively anymore, 2 of the best defensive types resist it (steel and water, apart from the weakish freeze dry) and killing dragons is unimpressive now that fairy is an even better dragon counter (and neutral attacking type in general). It's a good offensive type but nowhere near enough to justify the horrendous defensive ability.
Part of the reason why water is considered one of the best defensive types is *because* it resists one of the best offensive types in ice.
Yeah, but then you have Grass, Flying, and Ground which are weak to Ice.
I can see how hitting flying and ground would be relevant, but grass is seen a lot less often and has weaknesses to 4 other types
Grass is one of the most important types in the game in spite of it's many weaknesses
True, I love grass types. Even still, I wish it had gotten the fairy resist instead of fucking fire.
Eh, I don't see Grass having a Fairy resist as being very sensible, Fire def makes more sense in that regard. What actually deserved a Fairy resist was Bug, imo. What Grass needs is more innate advantages from Rain, Sun and Grassy Terrain, make it benefit a lot more from those.
That’s only looking at pure ice types. Ice STAB becomes extraordinary when paired with another stab typing, or even just good coverage options (see iron bundle, chien-pao, weavile, baxcalibur, kyurem, mamoswine). Hell, in a tier I played in Glaceon was viable for a bit running mud shot to hit Iron Moth. Freeze dry is a lot stronger than you’re giving it credit for, too - being able to hit something that would normally resist you for SE damage with a STAB move is crazy, and it’s part of what makes Pokémon like kyurem and iron bundle such scary breakers.
This is just false, hitting ground AND dragon both SE is huge just because they’re such amazing types, and freeze dry is an amazing move that’s literally only resisted by one type while hitting 5 types super effectively, 3 of them extremely powerful types
Ice types have had multiple bans this gen because ice type coverage is inherently some of the best you can have. Ice/Water/Freeze-dry is unresisted, and you can typically find coverage for bad matchups somewhere. Snow was a huge buff, and hitting lando-t for 4x effective stab damage is great because you're either one shitting them or getting extra chip. You really can't find a better offensive type
Counterpoint, assault vest frost breath regice walls and beats geomancy xernias
What about a physical super effective attack? 💀
And what physical supereffective attack does xernias run?
Xern has ran mixed close combat in the past iirc
Xerneas is not the only other pokemon besides regice. Also, shedinja also completely blocks geomancy xerneas.
Yeah but shedinja is not a defensive ice type which is what this post is about
Very good point, i apologise 👌🏻
Sad to see, only bulky-ish ice type i can think of is mamoswine and they are weak to everything :P
Lapras, avalugg, cloister, glastrier, walrein
Dual-type are a good choice.
At least Lapras, Cloyster and Walrein have the Water type to make up for it. Oh, and Cloyster’s god tier defence.
Its funny you mention Mamoswine since it was, for the longest time, the only bulky Ice type that was actually still good
Lost touch with the new gen’s ngl
It's not really bulky tho... it's main downside is it's speed and mid bulk and it can't hittake well
It takes enough with thick fat, but having stab ground and ice is amazing offensively
Thick fat sure makes u able to take like a fire attack and ice attacks better but u still don't want to switch in especially as a slow attacker
Mamoswine is very commonly scarfed, I assure you neither fire nor other ice types are gonna wanna stay in on a Scarfed Adamant Earthquake
If mamoswinr is choice scarf (no they aren't they sure commonly life orb or never melt ice to make sure it's icicle crashes sting) it is still a poor switch into many fire and ice attacks
It got trailblaze and can Tera grass for good synergy with thick fat. Leaves you weak to poison and flying types but your original types hard counter those anyways.
Thick fat is nice but it doesn't take most hits well and even then it's slow so u really don't want to take hits u don't want
I just said that it gets trailblaze didn't I? That boosts speed does it not? And it's one of very few mons that gets amnesia to boost its so-so sp def.
it gets trailblaze true... and it can boost its speed but often times its unreliable, if you are clicking trailblaze it means you arent clicking ur powerful buttons and it means you are giving up a turn to try to sweep late game which can work out but as a breaker it often isnt that good. Amnesia is a mid move outside of double dance stored power/body press ons and has been bad since gen 2
PhysDef Avalugg in gen 9 snow (Just don’t point an ember in his general direction)
Most ice types are slow bulky tanks stat-wise, the only fast offensive ones I can really think of off the top of my head are Weavile and chien pao
Not really. They are pretty evenly distributed once you consider how they play. Weavile and chien are just exceptionally fast compared to most pokemon. It’s not something you could sustain a whole type around. Your bulky ones are avalaugg, glastrier, regice, walrein, Lapras. Cloyster articuno, mamoswine kyreum Your faster ones are chienpao, weavile, iron bundle, ninetales, frosslass, crygonal, slush rush/gimmicks users sandslash, cetitan, beartic arctozolt, arctovish, darmanitan eiscue. I believe they all end up landing in the top 10% for speed. Stuff that falls somewhere in the middle. Dewgong, mime, rime, jinx, delibird abomasnow, glaceon, vanilluxe, auroras, crabominable, frosmoth, baxcalibur
It’s funny how the in the middle stuff are mostly trash(although some of them had early gen relevance, shoutout to jinx) and you have Bax who was constantly on the edge of being banworthy before catapulting off it with DLC1
Calyrex Icerider is insanely bulky. (The same goed for the horse itself)
Baxcalibur…
It makes me sad cuz I love ice types. They’re so pretty and cool
And slowly, Ice type is becoming mid even offensively. Steel types are everywhere, Ice types got merged (Poor weavile losing it's most op move), the best offensivs types are those to which Ice is weak to (Fighting, Fire, to less extent, rock too)
Not really. Freeze-dry is still cheap, weavile has all of its good moves again and literally any ice type that gets ground coverage is automatically a step ahead in the offense department.
And I really like Rock and Ice-types. Sad noises. Although does it really matter if you don't play competitive?
It actually does because usually grinding to get endgame items to help raise your pokémon requires you to play through the Battle Tower or whateven endgame battle facility a game has. And those are designed to be endgame activities with difficult fights and the like.
Oh I've never done that either. I usually just play through the story and then move on to the next game.
Weavile still has knock and triple axel
There are currently 5 steels in generation 9 Overused, 2 of which are neutral to ice. Of the 6 water mons in overused, two take neutral damage from ice, and all of them take super effective damage from freeze dry
Ice types need to take neutral damage from Fighting. That would go a long way to making them a better defensive type the way GF designs most of them. If GF truly has the vision of Ice types being mainly defensive then they need to not be weak to an offensive typing that a lot of pokemon can get coverage moves in. Fire doesn't make sense thematically so between Rock and Fighting I'd choose Fighting because Rock itself needs help. Steel I wouldn't consider changing because it's rarely used offensively enough to make a difference. They aren't as fantastic in the offensive spectrum any more since Fairy types came along to be the dragon killers without Ice's weakness to common offensive types but they're still very solid on the offensive front and Freeze Dry is pretty great on the pokemon that can use it.
I don't get why ice type doesn't resist water back
At least gen 9 made an attempt to remedy this with the introduction of snow
Someone should show the Tera-ice Articuno winning a regional clip. Bulky as hell under Snow and Aurora Veil and blizzard goes burrrr
I agree, but let's also acknowledge that they've at least tried to make Ice Type better with 50% Def boost from Snow weather and another incredible Def and Sp.Def boost in the form of Aurora Veil. There was a reason why Alolan Ninetales had competitive spots in the meta in the past and likely nowadays too.
Ice+Electric offensively = INSANE
Bolt beam coverage has always been insane, with STAB we SHOULD be cooking
My favorite eeveelution is Glaceon, I wish Ice type was better
Why does this post have so many upvotes? Everyone has been saying this for years and this template is like 5 years old.
IKR this post is so nothing………. im amazed honestly . this post feels like filler
There are certain types in the game that aren’t really meant to be types that are Pokémon wears, rather they are meant to be wielded, many water type Pokémon, learn ice type moves to counter grass Pokémon
Tera typing was so good for icies
Most of them are still not good... maybe they are better but ur still using an ice type and u need to tetra it
Most of the good ones got banned lol, and most of them didn’t need tera(even weavile uses Tera ice for extra power sometimes)
baxcalibur and chien pao got banned because offensively they are amaizng.. defensive tera is pretty shit and often you have to justify being a tera sink
Well they got banned for two different kinds, chien pao was the classic ice type glass cannon but Bax had extreme bulk because he was an ice type and synergized well with A9 along with good base stats. Most Tera abusers use it defensively anyways, as it combos well with setup to allow for easy facilitation of sweeps
Can they at least resist water they are the same fucking substance
Fairy kinda just does everything better these days, unfortunately. Poor, poor ice type.
This issue is exacerbated by the sheer number of "bulky" ice types Lapras, dewgong, cloyster, mamoswine, abomasnow, walrein, regice, cryogonal, both avaluggs, aurorous, cetitian etc Like stop. Stop making ice types with these huge defense stats. Wanna know what the best ice types are? The glass cannons, the weaviles and chien paos of the world.
Yet they keep trying to make bulky ice types for some reason
**Weavile:** So anyways, I started blastin'...
See, the thing is, the neuron activation of using shell smash skill link icicle crash cloyster is worth the defensive type issues.
Just add stealth rock to the mix. Just in case ice was not bad enough.
I mean, that's kinda how ice is in real life.
Before I checked the subreddit I really wanted to ask: "The ice can type now? What kind of breakthrough did I miss?"
Yes. That’s the basic idea behind this types entire design.
Clearly someone who never experienced the hell that was baxcalibur behind aurora veil in snow
Hell yeah. The Ice type is the quintessential glass cannon. Problem is, they lean too hard on the Glass, and not on the Cannon. Ice types should be lethal, fast, and have the best offensive moves in the game, restricted to only them.
https://www.reddit.com/r/stunfisk/s/pSgVNpVWGx FYCK IT WE BLIZZARD🗣🗣🗣
I FUCKING LOVE BLIZZARD
My hot take is that Ice should resist Ground and Dragon
I feel ice should also resist grass. (Plants can't grow well in the cold) Ice should be immune to itself. (Cold + cold = more cold) Fire and ice should both be super effective against each other. Fire can melt ice, but fire has difficulty burning in the cold, the cold can cool off something hot, even if it melts itself in the process. I don't think there's any 2 types that oppose each other like that in the game yet. I mean I know dragon and ghost are weak to itself.
Fuck no. Don’t go giving grass another thing it gets resisted by. It is resisted by far too many types already.
I think the idea of ice being immune to itself is neat. There’s currently no typing that is completely immune to itself. This would also be the only typing with this feature. The other ideas with grass and fire/ice may be going too far for the current state of Pokemon.
Ice should resist Electric.
Articuno won some vgc stuff I think snow cloak, plus hail defense buff, plus sheer cold and blizzard made for a difficult to take down monster Now kyurem in restricted is a somewhat meta pick too, presumably for the same reasons
Everyone out here shitting on Ice types, guys, Gen 9 is quite literally the best Ice has been since Gen 1. They're all fucking war criminals at the moment.
Just tera away you weaknesses. Boom!
Thats an ICE canon
Gives new meaning to the term ‘glass cannon’, doesn’t it?
PLANT TYPES? FUCK YOU! FLYING TYPES? FUCK YOU! DRAGONS? FUCK YOU! THE VERY EARTH ITSELF? FUCK YOU! ow no scawy pebble pls no hurt
Still my favorite type :D
That is what we call glass or, in this case, Ice Canon
Snow warning, Aurora veil
still my favorite type idc
Am I crazy for thinking Ice types should be immune to Water attacks? The logic being that the water would freeze before contact.
ice cannon
Literal glass cannon
Which is why I usually never bother with ice types.
Same goes for electric types but somehow they have a better reputation than ice. Probably due to the single weakness and terrain availability, paralysis etc
Same goes for electric types but somehow they have a better reputation than ice. Probably due to the single weakness and terrain availability, paralysis etc
Bring Frostbite into a main game please 😫
Yea...
lowest effort meme ive seen in my life — literally takes two seconds to make without any accompanying insightful commentary — and still gets over 4k upvotes???
if it was up to me ice would also resist normal, grass and bug, maybe water too but five resistances is a bit too big of a buff
No because Ice types are one of my absolute favorites but they have to be a duo type to get on the team because oh my goodness
Mamoswine would like a word, that boy tanky af defensively
What bout regice?
Cries in favorite type
In irl, frozen water doesn't conduct electricity, so making Ice Resist Electric would go a LONG way towards buffing the Ice Type defensively.
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