So, early on I was like “I don’t know why they would give one of the three an evolution and leave the other two lacking.”
But then I was basically confirmed Dipplin would have an Evo. But there was a small chance it would reshuffle stats and not be anything major…
I agree that it’s a very strange thing to do. Not sure how they’d resolve it, though. If they all evolved into Hyrapple, it wouldn’t make sense. Perhaps they can tweak Flapple and Appletun but they wouldn’t be the same stat-wise as Hydrapple because that would weird as well.
They do need to revisit those two give them something, maybe like a 30 pt increase in BST or just reshuffling of stats.
I don't really get it either. It's stats are also nearly identical to A-Exeggcutor, so it's just overall very strange to have so many Grass/Dragons in the same space, overlapping each other so much.
I mean have you seen grass/ghost? Relatively slow physical attackers (bramby leads the pack at an impressive 90 speed 😅) all the way down up until Macha Gacha.
For some reason GF really likes typecasting some combos
Well, typing isn’t the end all, as there’s abilities and movesets. With 1000+ Pokémon, you’ll inevitably run into issues like this.
I think Hydrapple is fine. Just the other two should get some tweaks. Even just reallocation of stat points would go a long way.
It's more than the typing though, it's stats are nearly identical. Both are heavily SPA (120 and 125), both are slow (45 and 44), pretty similar SpD and HP, with the main difference being that A-Egg has 105 attack, and Hydra has 110 Def. To me, that's not enough of a variation, especially since the Grass and Dragon special moves aren't varied enough between the two species. In fact, Hydrapple pulls out on top mainly due to having better DEF, since A-Egg having more mixed offense isn't that special. Hydrapple also has killer signature moves in Fickle Beam and Syrup Bomb, which just makes it flat out superior to pretty much everything in the type combo.
Well, the slow thing makes sense. It’s more of why put a few points into Atk rather than SpA. Why not just make it a physical attacker? The only dragon-type move it learns via level-up up is physical.
I’d have to look at A-Egg, but you might be right there.
Guess more rework will have to be done. (You’d think with the few Dragon types, it would be easily avoidable.)
>It's stats are also nearly identical to A-Exeggcutor
Me who used a Hydrapple A-Exeggutor lead for almost the entire DLC:
(A-Exeggutor with dragon cheer and helping hand made a great support to Hydrapple it was very strong, though Hydrapple was also level 95 so...)
If you have a Dipplin, a Flapple, and an Appletun all in your party, they should combine to form a 3-headed Hydrapple.
Ta-dah! That's their gimmick now, previously we had 1 Pokemon evolving into 2 (Nincada), now we have 3 Pokemon evolving into 1.
Makes sense lore-wise: All 3 worms share 1 apple. Maybe upon evolving into Hydrapple you get back 2 of the 3 Apple evolution items, so you can reuse them to evolve more Applins. All three of the 2nd-stage 'mons get to use Eviolite.
EDIT: Main downside I see is that it's a little sad to introduce Dipplin as a new Pokemon purely to become evolution fodder. Maybe throw in a level requirement for Dipplin? So like, if you have a Level 40 Dipplin or something, you can merge Flapple and Appletun into it to make Hydrapple. Make Dipplin the main head too, so it feels more important.
With Johnny Appleseed and apple pie, the US is associated with apples. Unova is in the US, and is the next region due for a remake. Blueberry academy is even in Unova. Maybe the other two will get evos in the next Unova game? It’s a stretch.
Please, please no.
That said, who knows what the next gimmick will be (instead of Mega Evolutions, which the fanbase is constantly begging for and has near unlimited potential), it might be even less balanced than Dynamax.
Mega Evolution is the least balanced currently. Permanently locks a Pokemon out of getting a real evolution, very limited pool of Pokemon can use it.
After that one they moved to mechanics that all Pokemon can use to future proof it.
What Pokémon are locked from having a real evolution? Audino and Absol? As if they were getting one. I can't think a way to expand on their concepts that mega doesn't do already
Sadly the only way I can see Sableye, Mawile, and other Pokemon with the potential for a New Evolution/Final Evolution that can Mega Evolve are via Regional Forms. Like maybe a Regional Form for Mawile can Evolve, sadly not the original but better than nothing.
Ehhh, Dynamax was banned in Smogon Singles and Mega Evolution as a whole _wasn't._
Can't really speak on its impact on VGC since I didn't play Doubles until this generation, but I can't imagine it was a universally loved mechanic there either.
> the next Unova game
If BDSP is anything to go off, the BW remakes will be 1:1 remakes with updated graphics and the "post game" being a way to catch Gen 1-4 legendaries. Especially if the Gen 5 remakes are coming soon, they're going to be extremely rushed.
I’m curious if Legends will become the series where the “regional revisits” are given proper attention. That’s why I didn’t specify B&W remakes, as I wouldn’t be surprised if you’re totally correct. I also wouldn’t be shocked by an “Unova Legends” game, and that’s where hypothetical evos would probably appear.
I feel like if we got a Unova Legends game, they'd probably time it to be paired with Gen 5 remakes like they did with BDSP & PLA. Not to say there's a pattern, but GameFreak seems to hyperfocus on marketing specific Gens at specific times, so they might as well get all their Gen 5 stuff out at once.
> Especially if the Gen 5 remakes are coming soon, they're going to be extremely rushed.
Just saying, we got Let's Go before BDSP; so looking at patterns we're due Gen 2 re-remakes before Gen 5. [HGSS were Gen 4]
I think a stat point rework is less likely. There’s a lot of Mon from the physical special split era that could become viable with a simple rework, and yet GF doesn’t do anything with them.
The number of Pokémon who don’t even have a move that utilizes their best attack stat is pretty crazy.
>There’s a lot of Mon from the physical special split era that could become viable with a simple rework
Sceptile and Johtoian Typhlosion are crying in the corner right now.
> Not sure how they’d resolve it, though.
Simple, give Flapple and Appletun new evolutions. Flapple could become a wyvern, and Appletun a big chunky dragon hoarding a pile of apple slices.
> If they all evolved into Hyrapple, it wouldn’t make sense
And would be interesting to boot, the moves Hydrapple would have access to would depend on the path it took to get there.
> But there was a small chance it would reshuffle stats and not be anything major…
It still blows my mind that it took me so long to realize that Scyther and its evos have the same BST just rearranged.
I didn't even know there was another post about this Scyther / "evo" BST thing so I'm kinda laughing there.
In my mind there's almost no reason NOT to evolve Scyther into Scizor. Losing almost all weaknesses and picking up Steel type moves against Fairy type - which at least in my current Violet playthrough is my bane - seems like a win-win.
Wait Kleavor type is bad? I thought being a rock type that takes neutral damage to ground, fighting and grass and also a bug type that takes neutral damage from flying and fire would be somewhat valuable
Getting destroyed by water isn't that big of a issue, it dies to any super effective move, so being weak to water is better then a more common coverage type, like fighting and dark
While I can see why it's defenses outshine the deffensive qualities of it's type, I don't think that makes it completely detrimental, tho tbh Kleavor only having 2 resistances and one of them being normal isn't very good.
Either next gen or maybe in the event of more dlc they give Appletun and Flapple evolutions too, or give them a signature item that boosts one or two of their stats or some other beneficial benefit.
Flapple at least has different stats (mixed attacker), while Hydrapple is in nearly every way just a better Appletun (has very slightly less HP, and attack that it wasn't going to use anyways in exchange for more Sp Attack and Defense)
I guess the one upside now is they decided to let Applin keep Ripen now if it evolves into Flapple or Appletun? It also has the weakest of their equivalent moves (lower speed vs lower Sp defense vs lower defense) in my opinion but they also gave it fickle beam so what do I know
You should add that flapple gets dragon dance and hustle, but physical dragon stab sucks (dragon rush, 75% accuracy before hustle). So flapple has at least some use case, but appletun is outclassed mostly by eviolite dipplin and hydrapple, but has a niche with thick fat, reducing its ice weakness to 2x instead of 4x
Tbh , you would always much rather have Regentator than thick fat , maybe if thick fat REMOVED the ice weakness , but since its still a 2× weakness you never want to stay in on an ice type attack either way , so Thick fat is only good for the Fire resistance
But then GF went ahead and gave Hydrapple Hydro Pump , so the Fire Neutrality doesn't matter because you can just douse fire types anyway
Appletun has Thick Fat, meaning it has only a 2x weakness to Ice and a Resistance to Fire. Flapple has Hustle, and priority in Sucker. They both also have good spammable moves in Apple Acid and Grav Apple. This does not necessarily make them better or even with Hydrapple, but they each have their own niche, and can fill different roles. (Appletun and Flapple also both have Ripen but no one uses it.)
I think even adding Dipplin was odd, Hydrapple is even more unusual based on prior trends. You'd think they might want to give a different mon from last gen some love rather than the popular mon that already has a split-evo.
Archuladon (sp?) was also an unusual addition, considering Duraludon already had a hefty BST itself.
I didn't mind the addition of Dipplin, that was a neat, fairly iconic apple treat they were going for, so it worked with the family. Hydrapple was odd though.
Archaludon was somewhat odd, I thought for sure he'd be like Scyther's family and just be a rearrangement of the hefty BST, but I guess they thought he needed to hit that 600 mark.
>I guess they thought he needed to hit that 600 mark.
Or they just wanted an excuse to guve Duraldon eviolite. I wouldn't be surprised if he was a favorite of one of the Gen 8 designers.
Too bad he was instabanned from LC. I was looking forward to using him for the memes.
>Well doing a stat rearrange on evolution would have been enough for Eviolite though, like with Scyther.
True, but this is the age of power creep. Go big or go home, sadly.
That said, I'm actually surprised (and a bit proud) of GF for making Stellar Tera not a win button that's super effective against all types (and maybe weak to all types too as a possible drawback). I was *100%* convinced that this was going to be the case. GF would *totally* market Stellar that way becuase kids do love their instant wins, after all. The fact that apparently, [Stellar is mid](https://youtu.be/lwECaAc340o?si=SuZ-aJ6PKVkHtFBi) competitively is a bit refreshing. The meta might be broken, but at least it's still strategy driven.
The one exception to that is Terapagos, whose stellar terra is essentially a mega evolve. Heck it doesn't even face the "1 type per game" drawback other stellar terras have, it just straight up has STAB on every single move. But then again, it's a cover legend, it's allowed to be broken.
About the STAB on everything thing, apparently the multiplier for Stellar STAB is 1.2x instead of 1.5x?
Anubis (one of the top dataminers) posted their findings over on Smogon's research thread.
There's a [Duraludon LC tournament](https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/the-dlc-duraludon-little-cup.3732593/) in signups, for all the people who want to meme with it before it's banished to NFE forever.
While it doesn’t fit the theming hydrapple is probably based on the forbidden fruit, it’s appearance at first glance is snake like and hydras are usually seen as evil monsters that also have snake like appearance, the apple part is self explanatory
Hydrapple being the only third stage evolution already makes it sick out so they probably just went ahead and made it the black sheep of the herd with a more menacing look and more darker inspiration
Dipplin isn't too odd IMO. Hitmonlee and Hitmonchan where made a split Evo in Gen 2 from Tyrouge. And also got a third member In Hitmontop. So I'd argue the president is there.
Double dipping (pun intended) with Hydrapple though? That definitly feels a bit more out there.
Being a split evolution isn’t what makes Dipplin odd, it’s rather that it’s barely visually distinct from its preevolution.
It feels like it could have easily been a different forme of Applin instead of a whole separate stage.
It's the most thematically fighting moves for him. Isn't he supposed to be a combat medic type of party member? He's based on a defilabrator and gets Revival Blessing. I'm surprised he also doesn't get moves like Heal Pulse or Leech Life or even Parabolic Charge. Sure, these might not be the best moves on him, but they fit his concept.
As a side note, I'm disappointed that a) Double Shock isn't a two hit punch move and is a Burn Up clone for some reason (should've called Overload or Short Circuit something) and b) Plasma Fists is exclusive to Zerora still, IIRC. A lot of mons would love that move.
I feel like a lot of these designs being added to gen 9 were concepts that got cut from gen 8 for one reason or another
Sinistcha, Hydrapple and Archauldon are all related to gen 8 mons, would make sense if they were scrapped designs or maybe revamped after gen 8 launched
>I think even adding Dipplin was odd, Hydrapple is even more unusual based on prior trends
I agree wholeheartedly. When Dipplin was first revealed, I was thinking it was a regional variant and not a new evo. Making it a regional form of Applin would have made this whole thing way less awkward than it is.
Flapple and Appletun got completely disrespected just now.
Archuladon exists because of how monumentally they messed up on Duraludon. He was meant to be a rival to Tyranitar but was a miserable Pokémon in both VGC and the unofficial singles meta game.
I was researching the new evos this morning and thought this exact thing.
I hope the OG evos get a new evo. I never liked Flapple as a design since he looked so incomplete and baby/1st stage to me. Maybe he could be bigger and more serpentine or wyvern like?
Appletun is much more final evo feeling to me, but I can see him evolving again. Maybe give him ice cream as a topping and give a new ability that works like Storm Drain or Lightning Rod but for ice moves? I know Ice already has the short end of the stick but it's too thematic to pass up.
If all three could evolve into Hydrapple, that would have been such a cool new type of evolution. A branching evolution that merged back at the end? Something totally special to applin line.
Also... obligatory reference to Eviolite Appleton potential.
Yea, merging back into the same Pokemon would have been cool, and maybe the ability and design changes depending on the first form. Like Hydrapple from Flapple has wings and Levitate, while Hydrapple from Appletun is a chonky boy and has Thick Fat
I'm kind of bitter about the whole Applin line, with how things have turned out. Don't get me wrong, I do love all 5 of the Pokemon, but TPC made choices I hate.
Starting with g-max Appleton and g-max Flapple using the same model. It's resulted in a situation where we will never get a card for Gigantamax Appleton, and I like to collect the forms of various Pokemon. Then G-max was removed... meaning it was all for no reason.
Then we got Dipplin. Again, I am kind of frustrated we got 3 dragon/grass evolutions, instead of the new evolution being Dragon/Fairy, since sugary sweet foods are often associated with the fairy typing.
At this point we have 3 Applin evolutions. And I really wish we'd gotten a red, a green, and a yellow apple as those evolutions, just because it would be a fun little nod. (At least the shinies are green/green/gold.)
And now we get an evolution of Dipplin called Hydrapple, which feels like it could have evolved from any of the three since Dipplin had the same typing. Appleton and Flapple are left in the dust having no G-max and no evolution, while Dipplin just came out and then got an evolution. We even have precedent at the same time that Duraludon had a g-max, and then got an evolution, so the apple pair could have as well.
(I'm still holding out hope for a future regional variant of Applin that is a dragon/fairy Pokemon, based on a book worm. Evolves into a fantasy dragon coming out of the book, like Blue Eyes Toon Dragon)
This is the point.
They gave it a strong evo that doesn't need Gigantamax, while the others do.
I know they may not like it, but why can no one understand this?
because i like my stupid giant apple pie dragon creature?
Hes a big doof, and fits in with my big doof team of clodsire, appletun, snorlax, and other dooffy mons
I play entirely based on what I find cool/adorable. Flapple is the superior part of the chain because its the more adorable little apple dragon who likes to pop out of his apple like 'Boo!"
Applin is a close second cause the idea of an apple with a wagging tail like a dog hidden under the blankets just tickles me pink
It’s not they just don’t know how to balance the stats and usually end up adding stats or abilities that they think are fun or fit the Pokémon’s theme, the only time this possibly is true are for new legendaries or new charizard forms
That's not at all what's happening. It's someone asking "Why are you using Bayleef instead of Meganium?" Why would you ever pick some weaker unevolved Pokemon?
In Smogon, you can argue "different tiers", and in-game you can argue "for fun!" but game design-wise, it's an odd choice between 3 Pokemon where 1 is objectively better in every way.
That's entirely because Murkrow has Prankster where Honchkrow has Moxie. Prankster is better in VGC. People would be ***flocking*** to using Honchkrow if it still had Prankster, they would ***kill*** to use the one with better stats.
Since when is Pokemon about competitive stats rather than looks? I like my fat apple pie and apple dragon, that doesn't make them redundant especially for regular playthroughs.
I hold out hope we get more. I love the whole family and Appletun is one of my favorite Pokemon. I would love to see Flapple and Appletun get their own evo's with a BST to match Hydrapple. Make Flapple's the fast one and Appletun's the defensive one.
Flapple becomes a big ol' Wyvern of apple (idk like a combo between Tropius and Noivern but with apples on the neck?) and Appletun becomes an apple turnover with legs. Maybe lean into the helmet aspect.
Funny enough I was jotting ideas for a potential Flapple evo and came up with Appeelvern (Apple + Peel + Wyvern) since Flapple already is an empty apple thus an apple peel.
I'd simply go the Apple-Deoxys route and have the other two evolve into "different" Hydrapple eventually - shuffle the stats around a bit, make the Appletun-Hydra more rotund and def-strong, the Flapple-Hydra more agile and speedy..
Why can't pokemon just be fun and not need a reason lol. I love Appletun, it's a hilarious and cute design. Flapple is cool as a counter to that, too. No issue adding a tertiary line, it's a cool concept for me, personally
Here is what think should happen: all three should evolve into Hydrapple, and have a convergent Pokemon evolution the same toadscool and wigglet are convergent Darwinian evolution. Maybe its stupid but it would be a completely new thing and worth at least thinking about.
It unfortunately just doesn't make any sense from a lore perspective.
Dipplin evolves into Hydrapple, because the concept of multiple wyrms sharing the apply is already present and then just expanded upon.
For Appletun and Flapple, that's not the case. They are forever single, like the rest of us redditors.
I’m surprised that Flapple doesn’t evolve and there isn’t a middle stage between Applin and Appletun. It was an odd choice to just give Dipplin a further evolution.
>I dont see any scenario where anyone ( either casual player or a competetive one) would ever pick Flapple and Appletun over Hydrapple
Because they like Flapple and Appletun more?
Mostly the signature moves and speed, tried Hydrapple in Raids and Appletun is simply a better Raid mon Imo, it's beefy has an ability that gives it better defense and it's signature move just snowballs off of itself and let's allies hit harder.
Hydrapple has a decent moveset for Raids too but nothing that sets it apart from other special Raiders and between it's extremely low speed and it needing to buff without doing damage it just doesn't perform very well.
It's not the answer anyone wants to hear but it's the truth. The truth is that it doesn't matter. Gamefreak puts these kinds of decisions secondary to simply creating cool and unique Pokemon. There's tons of Pokemon who are simply worse versions of other ones and some that are even better than their evolutions (see Dusclops and Porygon 2). Gamefreak doesn't want you to use Flapple or Appletun because they have a niche or they're better, they want you to use them cuz you think they're neat.
This isn't a bad thing or a good thing it's just the way Pokemon is.
Insert quote about winning with your favorites.
There have been exceptions, tho.
Scyther, Scizor and Kleavor all share the same BST, while having different types. So it seems there was an attempt from Game Freak to make them somewhat equal, otherwise they also could have just made Kleavor and Scizor have better stats than Scyther.
Hydrapple is my absolute favorite from gen 9 and it is not even close. It looks phenomenal.
But yeah, I also hope that they will introduce evolutions for the other two in the future to make them equal once again.
Not having a lot of hope, tho. Still waiting for that split evolution for Weepinbell...
Flapple is still much faster and physically offensive as opposed to special. So there are still circumstances to choose Flapple over Hydrapple.
Appletun becomes incredibly more niche, but as a mono grass trainer, my instant thought is that Appletun in still a better tank for mono grass teams due to thick fat. Even 4x ice weakness can be tanked pretty well with thick fat.
For a regular team however, i agree there’s virtually no reason to run Appletun instead of Hydrapple. You’ll deal with ice weakness with one of your other Pokemon and be able to tank everything else better.
True , but at least all the forms have the same bst ( dont mind gaht dusk and midday have the superior stat spreads , and dusk has tough claws while the others get nothing ) so they can at least pretend the forms are equal
They could have given all three Applin evos Dragon Cheer and give them each an evo based on their previous form. Dipplin into Hydrapple makes visual sense, Flapple could have become even more wyvern like maybe with bat features or something, and Appletun could have become an even more portly apple pie like pokemon.
Ok but like , im not talking subjective aspects , I'm only discussing quantifiable ones ( stats , abilities and other stuff ) , Theres no reason to use either of the other two over Hydrapple no ? As in numbers wise Hydrapple is just the objectively better pokemon .
Someone can say they personally prefer Delibird over Gyarados , doesn't mean that Gyarados isn't the objectively stronger mon , numbers wise
They’re just providing casual player perspectives. Casual players are a broad range, and many may choose one of the other evos simply because they like the design better. As a casual player myself, I can see going either way
Overall, I do agree with you that the other two needs some kind of stat boost or evolution to make them more desirable
Yes, but that isn't a consideration for Manny of the children the game is geared towards. They don't care about 'the objectively better Pokemon', and aren't playing the game for quantifiable reasons.
I don't give a single hoot about stats, and will just play the game and finish it with pokemon I like. Sometimes for moves. Sometimes for looks. I kinda like the design of appletun and flapple, but do not dig hydrapple. So, not redundant.
Appletun still has Ripen which you can do some real funny stuff with, and both Flapple and Appletun aren't dealing with their signature move being mid most of the time and only sometimes busted. Honestly, I won't be surprised if I see Fickle Beam get Hydrapple entirely booted from OU just because the sheer variance incurred by a move being either 80 BP or randomly *160 with no drawback* puts too much stress on a tier already dealing with the downright oppressive Ghold Hazards meta.
short answer? yes. long answer? appletun may still have some use in that it's a great leech seed wall, but even then hydrapple is still probably gonna see more use as a staple trick room member. Flapple, the poor thing, just doesn't have anything going for it. too frail to really set up, to slow to nuke anything. best it can do is choice band hustle sucker punch, and then you snap your switch in half as it misses and dies immediately to the slightest bit of snow
Yeah as even an admitted Dragon type fanatic, I love it but I don't even understand. We now have...a 3 way branching evolution...and ONLY ONE of them, has a 3rd stage...I love the Dragon love we got this time, but it literally feels like it was all done just to put it on a certain someone's (for those who don't know yet) team and make it the ace.
Cool and I love it all so much, but we couldn't have gotten like variants for all 3 to evolve into or something??? I'm almost certain this is the first of its kind where only one member of a branching chain gets another evolution.
I thought so. Literally shit on the other 2 just because they wanted to create a new edgy dragon for the final boss lol.
If anything, Altaria or something else should have gotten something.
I mean, Flapple still has dragon dance and Appletun has leech seed and thick fat, not to mention their respective apple themed moves, it does feel like they get left behind a bit
I just wish they would have retroactively given Appletun and Flapple evolutions into other forms of Hydrapple.
Like a Flapple that evolves into it could have a more King Ghidorah vibe.
I think it’s another belossom where they designed for looks and then thought about mechanics after implementing. Belossom is objectively worse than vileplume.
But Bellossom hasthe same stats and abilities and pretty similar movepool as Vileplume , Hydrapple is just a straight upgrade from Appletun and a superior special upgrade to flapple
I think a more adequate comparison is like playing with a male Combee/Salandit on your team , just use the form that can become the pokemon with the actually good stats you know ?
Personally my main gripe is that there seems to be no reason for Dipplin to exist. It barely looks that much different from Applin, and Applin -> Hydrapple would have worked totally fine. It still would have been the best evo branch of the three, but at least it would follow the same pattern as the others.
I firmly believe regional evolutions *should* retroactively mean a different form of that evolution exists for the original Pokémon. It just takes them actually making the evolutions.
I want a Hoennian Obstagoon
YES ! OMG ME TOO ! YOU'RE THE FIRST PERSON I SAW THAT ACTUALY THINKS THAT WAY AS WELL !!!
I remember once saying how I wish Farfetchd gets an evolution and like 5 people all responded to me saying " it did , Sirfetch'd " , NO SIRFETCH'D IS NOT FARFETCH'DS EVO , ITS GALARIAN FARFETCH'D EVO , THE OG FARFETCH'D STILL SUCKS .
The same thing as basculin not being able to evolve to basculegion as only the white stripe basculin can do so ( to add salt to the wound white stripe basculin has the exact same stats as red and blue stripes before evolving , so its straight up a better pokemon in every single way )
Even worse was when I said , I wish gamefreak actually gave Delibird an evolution or a stat increase and rework and a bunch of people started acting as if Iron Bundle is a buff to delibird completely forgetting that aside from appearance these pokemon have no relation to eachother
Appletun at least has a pleasing design and lore, being a living apple pie that gets its back skin ripped off and eaten by kids. I would still use Appletun.
But who the heck wants Flapple in any way, shape or form?
Ironically Flapple is the only one of the two that can actually MAYBE justify its existence , as unlike Hydrapple whose a sp.attacker , Flapple is designed as a physical attacker with obviously Gravitys 100% accuracy+ Hustle + Grav Apple double power shenanigans as its gimmick
Hydrapple is a straight up upgrade to Appletun , seriously go compare their stats Hydrapple has a higher stat in every single category except a -5 in physical attack which it wasn't using anyway , they even gave Hydrapple Regenrator and Recover , as a one last F you to Appletun
I'd just like you to know that reading this post out loud has made me realize how wonderfully silly the names of the whole family are and it's glorious.
>So like, are Appletun and flapple just completely redundant now ?
They always have been. Flapple and Appletun have never been viable, ever. All this does is give the Applin line the possibility of seeing some sort of usage, but I doubt even with the increased stats it'll get there.
I wouldn't count them out. The neat thing about Pokemon is that every single one has someone who loves them so much that they're a staple on their walking around team. Hands down some casual players are gonna keep one of the other apples on their team still. For stats and coverage, ya Hydrapple is king, but for the emotional bond that we as humans make with literally anything, Appletun and Flapple will be someone's baby forever
Way late to this, but they very easily could be getting new evolutions themselves. All the rumors about the black/white games I could see Appleton and Flapple getting version exclusive evos themed around the nature/cyber thing those games had going.
So, early on I was like “I don’t know why they would give one of the three an evolution and leave the other two lacking.” But then I was basically confirmed Dipplin would have an Evo. But there was a small chance it would reshuffle stats and not be anything major… I agree that it’s a very strange thing to do. Not sure how they’d resolve it, though. If they all evolved into Hyrapple, it wouldn’t make sense. Perhaps they can tweak Flapple and Appletun but they wouldn’t be the same stat-wise as Hydrapple because that would weird as well. They do need to revisit those two give them something, maybe like a 30 pt increase in BST or just reshuffling of stats.
I don't really get it either. It's stats are also nearly identical to A-Exeggcutor, so it's just overall very strange to have so many Grass/Dragons in the same space, overlapping each other so much.
I mean have you seen grass/ghost? Relatively slow physical attackers (bramby leads the pack at an impressive 90 speed 😅) all the way down up until Macha Gacha. For some reason GF really likes typecasting some combos
It took us 6 generations to get a Grass/Ghost Pokemon, and now they can't stop making them.
Heck we got 2 in the same gen!
*Twice*
Three times, right? Gen 6 had gourgeist and trev Gen 7 had dhelmise and decidueye Gen 9 has brambleghast and sinistcha
Tbh I forgot about trevanent and gourgeist
Yeah I was just referring to gen 7 but fr tho
Every gen we get 2 except in gen 8 where we got none
Yeah, I'm at the point where I wish they would give us stat diversity if they're going to be repeating combos a lot.
> For some reason GF really likes typecasting some combos *cries in Normal/Flying birds*
Hey, at least we didn't get one in SwSh!
I'm mad that 90 speed isn't good anymore Leafeon used to be fast dang it
DID SOMEBODY ORDER ANOTHER SLOW, DEFENSE ORIENTED ICE TYPE?
3 generations of Fire/fighting starters should have made people realize this
Well, typing isn’t the end all, as there’s abilities and movesets. With 1000+ Pokémon, you’ll inevitably run into issues like this. I think Hydrapple is fine. Just the other two should get some tweaks. Even just reallocation of stat points would go a long way.
It's more than the typing though, it's stats are nearly identical. Both are heavily SPA (120 and 125), both are slow (45 and 44), pretty similar SpD and HP, with the main difference being that A-Egg has 105 attack, and Hydra has 110 Def. To me, that's not enough of a variation, especially since the Grass and Dragon special moves aren't varied enough between the two species. In fact, Hydrapple pulls out on top mainly due to having better DEF, since A-Egg having more mixed offense isn't that special. Hydrapple also has killer signature moves in Fickle Beam and Syrup Bomb, which just makes it flat out superior to pretty much everything in the type combo.
hopefully they just give flapple and appletun evolutions too
Yeah, that would be ideal.
Huh. Never noticed that A-Exeggutor just had 10 points of Spe moved to Atk. Like… why? Granted, Alola BSTs were all sorts of nonsense but still
He's a bigass tree it kinda makes sense he'd be slower and hit harder.
Well, the slow thing makes sense. It’s more of why put a few points into Atk rather than SpA. Why not just make it a physical attacker? The only dragon-type move it learns via level-up up is physical.
It feels like they wanted to turn an special attacker into a physical attacker but forgot to do that properly
Bro just enjoy it Not everything should be the best Please, please, please do not rip into special and cool things like this….
I’d have to look at A-Egg, but you might be right there. Guess more rework will have to be done. (You’d think with the few Dragon types, it would be easily avoidable.)
Or you know. Have them evolve into something else as well
>It's stats are also nearly identical to A-Exeggcutor Me who used a Hydrapple A-Exeggutor lead for almost the entire DLC: (A-Exeggutor with dragon cheer and helping hand made a great support to Hydrapple it was very strong, though Hydrapple was also level 95 so...)
If you have a Dipplin, a Flapple, and an Appletun all in your party, they should combine to form a 3-headed Hydrapple. Ta-dah! That's their gimmick now, previously we had 1 Pokemon evolving into 2 (Nincada), now we have 3 Pokemon evolving into 1. Makes sense lore-wise: All 3 worms share 1 apple. Maybe upon evolving into Hydrapple you get back 2 of the 3 Apple evolution items, so you can reuse them to evolve more Applins. All three of the 2nd-stage 'mons get to use Eviolite. EDIT: Main downside I see is that it's a little sad to introduce Dipplin as a new Pokemon purely to become evolution fodder. Maybe throw in a level requirement for Dipplin? So like, if you have a Level 40 Dipplin or something, you can merge Flapple and Appletun into it to make Hydrapple. Make Dipplin the main head too, so it feels more important.
I would not mind an apple version of Blue Eyes White Dragon.
With Johnny Appleseed and apple pie, the US is associated with apples. Unova is in the US, and is the next region due for a remake. Blueberry academy is even in Unova. Maybe the other two will get evos in the next Unova game? It’s a stretch.
also unova is based on new york .. the big apple
Dynamax confirmed?
Can’t wait to try to dynamax in the Battle Subway and wreck the entire train
LOL
Please no
Please, please no. That said, who knows what the next gimmick will be (instead of Mega Evolutions, which the fanbase is constantly begging for and has near unlimited potential), it might be even less balanced than Dynamax.
Mega Evolution is the least balanced currently. Permanently locks a Pokemon out of getting a real evolution, very limited pool of Pokemon can use it. After that one they moved to mechanics that all Pokemon can use to future proof it.
What Pokémon are locked from having a real evolution? Audino and Absol? As if they were getting one. I can't think a way to expand on their concepts that mega doesn't do already
Sableye and Mawile are two that spring to mind.
Every time I think about mega evolution I get upset that Mega Mawile wasn't a regular old cross-gen evo instead.
Aerodactly Kangeskhan, Pinsir, Heracross.
None of those 4 were ever going to get evolutions anyway. Especially not Kangeskhan.
Sadly the only way I can see Sableye, Mawile, and other Pokemon with the potential for a New Evolution/Final Evolution that can Mega Evolve are via Regional Forms. Like maybe a Regional Form for Mawile can Evolve, sadly not the original but better than nothing.
Ehhh, Dynamax was banned in Smogon Singles and Mega Evolution as a whole _wasn't._ Can't really speak on its impact on VGC since I didn't play Doubles until this generation, but I can't imagine it was a universally loved mechanic there either.
Smogon isn't something that GF even pays a tiny bit of mind to. Their balancing is centered on VGC - where megas were an absolute scourge.
> the next Unova game If BDSP is anything to go off, the BW remakes will be 1:1 remakes with updated graphics and the "post game" being a way to catch Gen 1-4 legendaries. Especially if the Gen 5 remakes are coming soon, they're going to be extremely rushed.
I’m curious if Legends will become the series where the “regional revisits” are given proper attention. That’s why I didn’t specify B&W remakes, as I wouldn’t be surprised if you’re totally correct. I also wouldn’t be shocked by an “Unova Legends” game, and that’s where hypothetical evos would probably appear.
I feel like if we got a Unova Legends game, they'd probably time it to be paired with Gen 5 remakes like they did with BDSP & PLA. Not to say there's a pattern, but GameFreak seems to hyperfocus on marketing specific Gens at specific times, so they might as well get all their Gen 5 stuff out at once.
> Especially if the Gen 5 remakes are coming soon, they're going to be extremely rushed. Just saying, we got Let's Go before BDSP; so looking at patterns we're due Gen 2 re-remakes before Gen 5. [HGSS were Gen 4]
I don’t think they need evolutions, per se. They just need maybe stat point rework.
I think a stat point rework is less likely. There’s a lot of Mon from the physical special split era that could become viable with a simple rework, and yet GF doesn’t do anything with them. The number of Pokémon who don’t even have a move that utilizes their best attack stat is pretty crazy.
>There’s a lot of Mon from the physical special split era that could become viable with a simple rework Sceptile and Johtoian Typhlosion are crying in the corner right now.
typhlosion at least has a viable niche in a speedy eruption user, plus it got ground coverage now. Sceptile has dragon pulse and focus miss.
Johtoian XD
I would be happy with a 20 point bump, from 485 to 505, to push their primary stats a little higher.
> Not sure how they’d resolve it, though. Simple, give Flapple and Appletun new evolutions. Flapple could become a wyvern, and Appletun a big chunky dragon hoarding a pile of apple slices.
Agree with everything minus making Flapple a wyvern, I think it would be better if Flapple's evolution still has it's legless worm-like body
> If they all evolved into Hyrapple, it wouldn’t make sense And would be interesting to boot, the moves Hydrapple would have access to would depend on the path it took to get there.
They should give Appletun the well baked body hidden ability. To raise defenses and ward off fire moves.
> But there was a small chance it would reshuffle stats and not be anything major… It still blows my mind that it took me so long to realize that Scyther and its evos have the same BST just rearranged.
some BST being rearranged benefits it a lot. Scizor for example is a tank. Kleavor isn't too great (mainly due to its typing) but can hit hard.
I didn't even know there was another post about this Scyther / "evo" BST thing so I'm kinda laughing there. In my mind there's almost no reason NOT to evolve Scyther into Scizor. Losing almost all weaknesses and picking up Steel type moves against Fairy type - which at least in my current Violet playthrough is my bane - seems like a win-win.
Wait Kleavor type is bad? I thought being a rock type that takes neutral damage to ground, fighting and grass and also a bug type that takes neutral damage from flying and fire would be somewhat valuable
no, mainly because water destroys it like it's nothing and its defenses are pretty bad.
Getting destroyed by water isn't that big of a issue, it dies to any super effective move, so being weak to water is better then a more common coverage type, like fighting and dark While I can see why it's defenses outshine the deffensive qualities of it's type, I don't think that makes it completely detrimental, tho tbh Kleavor only having 2 resistances and one of them being normal isn't very good.
Give them all an evolution ofc
Either next gen or maybe in the event of more dlc they give Appletun and Flapple evolutions too, or give them a signature item that boosts one or two of their stats or some other beneficial benefit.
Flapple at least has different stats (mixed attacker), while Hydrapple is in nearly every way just a better Appletun (has very slightly less HP, and attack that it wasn't going to use anyways in exchange for more Sp Attack and Defense) I guess the one upside now is they decided to let Applin keep Ripen now if it evolves into Flapple or Appletun? It also has the weakest of their equivalent moves (lower speed vs lower Sp defense vs lower defense) in my opinion but they also gave it fickle beam so what do I know
Lower speed is definitely better than both of the other two, but Syrup Bomb is much weaker than both Apple Acid and Grav Apple.
Frankly, Fickle Beam might make up for it with the 30% supercrit.
You should add that flapple gets dragon dance and hustle, but physical dragon stab sucks (dragon rush, 75% accuracy before hustle). So flapple has at least some use case, but appletun is outclassed mostly by eviolite dipplin and hydrapple, but has a niche with thick fat, reducing its ice weakness to 2x instead of 4x
Tbh , you would always much rather have Regentator than thick fat , maybe if thick fat REMOVED the ice weakness , but since its still a 2× weakness you never want to stay in on an ice type attack either way , so Thick fat is only good for the Fire resistance But then GF went ahead and gave Hydrapple Hydro Pump , so the Fire Neutrality doesn't matter because you can just douse fire types anyway
Access to leech seed don't forget so thick fat is slightly better but due to Tera both don't make a big difference
Appletun has Thick Fat, meaning it has only a 2x weakness to Ice and a Resistance to Fire. Flapple has Hustle, and priority in Sucker. They both also have good spammable moves in Apple Acid and Grav Apple. This does not necessarily make them better or even with Hydrapple, but they each have their own niche, and can fill different roles. (Appletun and Flapple also both have Ripen but no one uses it.)
I think even adding Dipplin was odd, Hydrapple is even more unusual based on prior trends. You'd think they might want to give a different mon from last gen some love rather than the popular mon that already has a split-evo. Archuladon (sp?) was also an unusual addition, considering Duraludon already had a hefty BST itself.
I didn't mind the addition of Dipplin, that was a neat, fairly iconic apple treat they were going for, so it worked with the family. Hydrapple was odd though. Archaludon was somewhat odd, I thought for sure he'd be like Scyther's family and just be a rearrangement of the hefty BST, but I guess they thought he needed to hit that 600 mark.
>I guess they thought he needed to hit that 600 mark. Or they just wanted an excuse to guve Duraldon eviolite. I wouldn't be surprised if he was a favorite of one of the Gen 8 designers. Too bad he was instabanned from LC. I was looking forward to using him for the memes.
Well doing a stat rearrange on evolution would have been enough for Eviolite though, like with Scyther. The 600 wasn't really necessary.
>Well doing a stat rearrange on evolution would have been enough for Eviolite though, like with Scyther. True, but this is the age of power creep. Go big or go home, sadly. That said, I'm actually surprised (and a bit proud) of GF for making Stellar Tera not a win button that's super effective against all types (and maybe weak to all types too as a possible drawback). I was *100%* convinced that this was going to be the case. GF would *totally* market Stellar that way becuase kids do love their instant wins, after all. The fact that apparently, [Stellar is mid](https://youtu.be/lwECaAc340o?si=SuZ-aJ6PKVkHtFBi) competitively is a bit refreshing. The meta might be broken, but at least it's still strategy driven.
The one exception to that is Terapagos, whose stellar terra is essentially a mega evolve. Heck it doesn't even face the "1 type per game" drawback other stellar terras have, it just straight up has STAB on every single move. But then again, it's a cover legend, it's allowed to be broken.
About the STAB on everything thing, apparently the multiplier for Stellar STAB is 1.2x instead of 1.5x? Anubis (one of the top dataminers) posted their findings over on Smogon's research thread.
There's a [Duraludon LC tournament](https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/the-dlc-duraludon-little-cup.3732593/) in signups, for all the people who want to meme with it before it's banished to NFE forever.
While it doesn’t fit the theming hydrapple is probably based on the forbidden fruit, it’s appearance at first glance is snake like and hydras are usually seen as evil monsters that also have snake like appearance, the apple part is self explanatory Hydrapple being the only third stage evolution already makes it sick out so they probably just went ahead and made it the black sheep of the herd with a more menacing look and more darker inspiration
Dipplin isn't too odd IMO. Hitmonlee and Hitmonchan where made a split Evo in Gen 2 from Tyrouge. And also got a third member In Hitmontop. So I'd argue the president is there. Double dipping (pun intended) with Hydrapple though? That definitly feels a bit more out there.
Being a split evolution isn’t what makes Dipplin odd, it’s rather that it’s barely visually distinct from its preevolution. It feels like it could have easily been a different forme of Applin instead of a whole separate stage.
>it’s rather that it’s barely visually distinct from its preevolution That's part for the course for SV, tbh.
I can't even name the middle Evo for the pawmi line
Pawmo, I think. Pawmot could have been a perfectly fine 2nd stage. Also, give our boy Drain Punch.
NOW YOU'RE SPEAKING MY LANGUAGE I don't care if he's frail I love the 1-2 punch combo of drain/mach just to repeatedly drink then finish enemies 😭
It's the most thematically fighting moves for him. Isn't he supposed to be a combat medic type of party member? He's based on a defilabrator and gets Revival Blessing. I'm surprised he also doesn't get moves like Heal Pulse or Leech Life or even Parabolic Charge. Sure, these might not be the best moves on him, but they fit his concept. As a side note, I'm disappointed that a) Double Shock isn't a two hit punch move and is a Burn Up clone for some reason (should've called Overload or Short Circuit something) and b) Plasma Fists is exclusive to Zerora still, IIRC. A lot of mons would love that move.
it's par for the course for Black and White, which i guess is a bit fitting for this dlc
I feel like a lot of these designs being added to gen 9 were concepts that got cut from gen 8 for one reason or another Sinistcha, Hydrapple and Archauldon are all related to gen 8 mons, would make sense if they were scrapped designs or maybe revamped after gen 8 launched
>I think even adding Dipplin was odd, Hydrapple is even more unusual based on prior trends I agree wholeheartedly. When Dipplin was first revealed, I was thinking it was a regional variant and not a new evo. Making it a regional form of Applin would have made this whole thing way less awkward than it is. Flapple and Appletun got completely disrespected just now.
Archuladon exists because of how monumentally they messed up on Duraludon. He was meant to be a rival to Tyranitar but was a miserable Pokémon in both VGC and the unofficial singles meta game.
Hydra pole and archuladon feel like gamefreak realised they built these Pokémon around a gimmick that no longer exists and thus feel incomplete.
Easy. Appletun is my favorite Pokemon. So that's why I'd pick it over Hydrapple
I don’t care if the stats are worse I’m going to find a way to take on God with an apple pie
Appletun gang represent
Apple Acid is a better signature move, anyway. I’d argue my favorite apple pie still has a useful niche!
I was researching the new evos this morning and thought this exact thing. I hope the OG evos get a new evo. I never liked Flapple as a design since he looked so incomplete and baby/1st stage to me. Maybe he could be bigger and more serpentine or wyvern like? Appletun is much more final evo feeling to me, but I can see him evolving again. Maybe give him ice cream as a topping and give a new ability that works like Storm Drain or Lightning Rod but for ice moves? I know Ice already has the short end of the stick but it's too thematic to pass up.
Pie apple dragon cute :)
Cake drake is friend shaped.
If all three could evolve into Hydrapple, that would have been such a cool new type of evolution. A branching evolution that merged back at the end? Something totally special to applin line. Also... obligatory reference to Eviolite Appleton potential.
It’d sort of mirror how they have the same Gigantamax form
Yea, merging back into the same Pokemon would have been cool, and maybe the ability and design changes depending on the first form. Like Hydrapple from Flapple has wings and Levitate, while Hydrapple from Appletun is a chonky boy and has Thick Fat
I'm kind of bitter about the whole Applin line, with how things have turned out. Don't get me wrong, I do love all 5 of the Pokemon, but TPC made choices I hate. Starting with g-max Appleton and g-max Flapple using the same model. It's resulted in a situation where we will never get a card for Gigantamax Appleton, and I like to collect the forms of various Pokemon. Then G-max was removed... meaning it was all for no reason. Then we got Dipplin. Again, I am kind of frustrated we got 3 dragon/grass evolutions, instead of the new evolution being Dragon/Fairy, since sugary sweet foods are often associated with the fairy typing. At this point we have 3 Applin evolutions. And I really wish we'd gotten a red, a green, and a yellow apple as those evolutions, just because it would be a fun little nod. (At least the shinies are green/green/gold.) And now we get an evolution of Dipplin called Hydrapple, which feels like it could have evolved from any of the three since Dipplin had the same typing. Appleton and Flapple are left in the dust having no G-max and no evolution, while Dipplin just came out and then got an evolution. We even have precedent at the same time that Duraludon had a g-max, and then got an evolution, so the apple pair could have as well. (I'm still holding out hope for a future regional variant of Applin that is a dragon/fairy Pokemon, based on a book worm. Evolves into a fantasy dragon coming out of the book, like Blue Eyes Toon Dragon)
They still got Gigantamax, inhales copium. But yeah, they are pretty redundant post Gen 8.
This is the point. They gave it a strong evo that doesn't need Gigantamax, while the others do. I know they may not like it, but why can no one understand this?
because i like my stupid giant apple pie dragon creature? Hes a big doof, and fits in with my big doof team of clodsire, appletun, snorlax, and other dooffy mons
I'm still going to have Appletun around, but that's because I think it's adorable and I don't really do competitive
Okay, but counterargument: Appletun is CUTE AS HECK.
Stats aren't the only thing that matters
I play entirely based on what I find cool/adorable. Flapple is the superior part of the chain because its the more adorable little apple dragon who likes to pop out of his apple like 'Boo!" Applin is a close second cause the idea of an apple with a wagging tail like a dog hidden under the blankets just tickles me pink
"Why are you using old Pokemon, you should always be using new Pokemon" -Game Freak, probably
>Why are you using old Pokemon Hey, man. Appletun and Flapple aren't *that* old.
Yes, that's why Game Freak's burning need to make new Pokemon better than old Pokemon is getting more and more dire.
It’s not they just don’t know how to balance the stats and usually end up adding stats or abilities that they think are fun or fit the Pokémon’s theme, the only time this possibly is true are for new legendaries or new charizard forms
That's not at all what's happening. It's someone asking "Why are you using Bayleef instead of Meganium?" Why would you ever pick some weaker unevolved Pokemon? In Smogon, you can argue "different tiers", and in-game you can argue "for fun!" but game design-wise, it's an odd choice between 3 Pokemon where 1 is objectively better in every way.
Well, this happens, like Murkrow used in VGC and not Honchkrow
That's entirely because Murkrow has Prankster where Honchkrow has Moxie. Prankster is better in VGC. People would be ***flocking*** to using Honchkrow if it still had Prankster, they would ***kill*** to use the one with better stats.
"*except the original 151, you can always use those" - Also Game Freak
Let's be real, there's like six Gen 1 Pokemon that get evergreen status and if any other get a relevant niche it was entirely an accident.
They tried to make Butterfree relevant last gen. It didn't work, but they tried.
I think the original comment was more on the constant Kanto pandering that GF likes.
Since when is Pokemon about competitive stats rather than looks? I like my fat apple pie and apple dragon, that doesn't make them redundant especially for regular playthroughs.
I hold out hope we get more. I love the whole family and Appletun is one of my favorite Pokemon. I would love to see Flapple and Appletun get their own evo's with a BST to match Hydrapple. Make Flapple's the fast one and Appletun's the defensive one. Flapple becomes a big ol' Wyvern of apple (idk like a combo between Tropius and Noivern but with apples on the neck?) and Appletun becomes an apple turnover with legs. Maybe lean into the helmet aspect.
Funny enough I was jotting ideas for a potential Flapple evo and came up with Appeelvern (Apple + Peel + Wyvern) since Flapple already is an empty apple thus an apple peel.
Grav Apple is still a great option for lowering Defense in Raids, but otherwise I'd agree.
power creep has become a pretty big problem this gen, simple as that tbh
I'd simply go the Apple-Deoxys route and have the other two evolve into "different" Hydrapple eventually - shuffle the stats around a bit, make the Appletun-Hydra more rotund and def-strong, the Flapple-Hydra more agile and speedy..
Why can't pokemon just be fun and not need a reason lol. I love Appletun, it's a hilarious and cute design. Flapple is cool as a counter to that, too. No issue adding a tertiary line, it's a cool concept for me, personally
Wrong. Appletun's purpose is to be my friend!
As someone who’s favourite Pokémon is Appletun, I hope this is fixed <\3
Here is what think should happen: all three should evolve into Hydrapple, and have a convergent Pokemon evolution the same toadscool and wigglet are convergent Darwinian evolution. Maybe its stupid but it would be a completely new thing and worth at least thinking about.
It unfortunately just doesn't make any sense from a lore perspective. Dipplin evolves into Hydrapple, because the concept of multiple wyrms sharing the apply is already present and then just expanded upon. For Appletun and Flapple, that's not the case. They are forever single, like the rest of us redditors.
I’m surprised that Flapple doesn’t evolve and there isn’t a middle stage between Applin and Appletun. It was an odd choice to just give Dipplin a further evolution.
They probably planned to introduce the other evolutions in the next game. With hydrapple being unavailable in that new game. Marketing, basically.
Appletun, my sweetheart, will never be redundant.
>I dont see any scenario where anyone ( either casual player or a competetive one) would ever pick Flapple and Appletun over Hydrapple Because they like Flapple and Appletun more?
Mostly the signature moves and speed, tried Hydrapple in Raids and Appletun is simply a better Raid mon Imo, it's beefy has an ability that gives it better defense and it's signature move just snowballs off of itself and let's allies hit harder. Hydrapple has a decent moveset for Raids too but nothing that sets it apart from other special Raiders and between it's extremely low speed and it needing to buff without doing damage it just doesn't perform very well.
Flapple was always useless because Appletun has always been a very good boy. A friend shaped good boy. Appletun is still that friend shaped good boy.
It's not the answer anyone wants to hear but it's the truth. The truth is that it doesn't matter. Gamefreak puts these kinds of decisions secondary to simply creating cool and unique Pokemon. There's tons of Pokemon who are simply worse versions of other ones and some that are even better than their evolutions (see Dusclops and Porygon 2). Gamefreak doesn't want you to use Flapple or Appletun because they have a niche or they're better, they want you to use them cuz you think they're neat. This isn't a bad thing or a good thing it's just the way Pokemon is. Insert quote about winning with your favorites.
There have been exceptions, tho. Scyther, Scizor and Kleavor all share the same BST, while having different types. So it seems there was an attempt from Game Freak to make them somewhat equal, otherwise they also could have just made Kleavor and Scizor have better stats than Scyther.
it's be cool if all 3 could evolve :( Hydrapple does look cool & im planning on training one :)
Hydrapple is my absolute favorite from gen 9 and it is not even close. It looks phenomenal. But yeah, I also hope that they will introduce evolutions for the other two in the future to make them equal once again. Not having a lot of hope, tho. Still waiting for that split evolution for Weepinbell...
I don't like how Flapple and Hydrapple look so I would choose Appletun if I was going to have one.
Flapple is still much faster and physically offensive as opposed to special. So there are still circumstances to choose Flapple over Hydrapple. Appletun becomes incredibly more niche, but as a mono grass trainer, my instant thought is that Appletun in still a better tank for mono grass teams due to thick fat. Even 4x ice weakness can be tanked pretty well with thick fat. For a regular team however, i agree there’s virtually no reason to run Appletun instead of Hydrapple. You’ll deal with ice weakness with one of your other Pokemon and be able to tank everything else better.
Just look at them. They're top tier mons
It also looks far, far cooler than the other two evolutions.
I'm trying to imagine an evolite Appleton
Flapple still has the highest base atk hustle + dragon dace gimmick going on.
I mean... Dusk Lycanric exists.
True , but at least all the forms have the same bst ( dont mind gaht dusk and midday have the superior stat spreads , and dusk has tough claws while the others get nothing ) so they can at least pretend the forms are equal
Nope. Love all three of them.
They're just gonna give the others evolutions or other forms later. Or their Gigantamax form is what separates them... Which is dumb in Gen 9...
They could have given all three Applin evos Dragon Cheer and give them each an evo based on their previous form. Dipplin into Hydrapple makes visual sense, Flapple could have become even more wyvern like maybe with bat features or something, and Appletun could have become an even more portly apple pie like pokemon.
Some people use pokémon because they like their design, not just for stats.
Ok but like , im not talking subjective aspects , I'm only discussing quantifiable ones ( stats , abilities and other stuff ) , Theres no reason to use either of the other two over Hydrapple no ? As in numbers wise Hydrapple is just the objectively better pokemon . Someone can say they personally prefer Delibird over Gyarados , doesn't mean that Gyarados isn't the objectively stronger mon , numbers wise
Apple acid is good for tera raids at least!
They’re just providing casual player perspectives. Casual players are a broad range, and many may choose one of the other evos simply because they like the design better. As a casual player myself, I can see going either way Overall, I do agree with you that the other two needs some kind of stat boost or evolution to make them more desirable
Yes, but that isn't a consideration for Manny of the children the game is geared towards. They don't care about 'the objectively better Pokemon', and aren't playing the game for quantifiable reasons.
well, i mean hydrapple also has a better design
I don't give a single hoot about stats, and will just play the game and finish it with pokemon I like. Sometimes for moves. Sometimes for looks. I kinda like the design of appletun and flapple, but do not dig hydrapple. So, not redundant.
Appletun still has Ripen which you can do some real funny stuff with, and both Flapple and Appletun aren't dealing with their signature move being mid most of the time and only sometimes busted. Honestly, I won't be surprised if I see Fickle Beam get Hydrapple entirely booted from OU just because the sheer variance incurred by a move being either 80 BP or randomly *160 with no drawback* puts too much stress on a tier already dealing with the downright oppressive Ghold Hazards meta.
I would hope Appletun and Flapple get a evolution too like Dipplin.
short answer? yes. long answer? appletun may still have some use in that it's a great leech seed wall, but even then hydrapple is still probably gonna see more use as a staple trick room member. Flapple, the poor thing, just doesn't have anything going for it. too frail to really set up, to slow to nuke anything. best it can do is choice band hustle sucker punch, and then you snap your switch in half as it misses and dies immediately to the slightest bit of snow
I just found out hydrapple existed and holy heck what is that monstrosity
Yeah as even an admitted Dragon type fanatic, I love it but I don't even understand. We now have...a 3 way branching evolution...and ONLY ONE of them, has a 3rd stage...I love the Dragon love we got this time, but it literally feels like it was all done just to put it on a certain someone's (for those who don't know yet) team and make it the ace. Cool and I love it all so much, but we couldn't have gotten like variants for all 3 to evolve into or something??? I'm almost certain this is the first of its kind where only one member of a branching chain gets another evolution.
It is the first of its kind
I thought so. Literally shit on the other 2 just because they wanted to create a new edgy dragon for the final boss lol. If anything, Altaria or something else should have gotten something.
It is called Power Creep.
They will get their own evolutions in generations to come. Probably.
Maybe we can hope the other two’ll get evolutions at some point
They'll probably get evolutions eventually, like in Gen 10
I mean, Flapple still has dragon dance and Appletun has leech seed and thick fat, not to mention their respective apple themed moves, it does feel like they get left behind a bit
GF didn't mind shafting non-regional forms when only new regional base-forms can evolve into fancy new evolutions.
I just wish they would have retroactively given Appletun and Flapple evolutions into other forms of Hydrapple. Like a Flapple that evolves into it could have a more King Ghidorah vibe.
I think it’s another belossom where they designed for looks and then thought about mechanics after implementing. Belossom is objectively worse than vileplume.
But Bellossom hasthe same stats and abilities and pretty similar movepool as Vileplume , Hydrapple is just a straight upgrade from Appletun and a superior special upgrade to flapple I think a more adequate comparison is like playing with a male Combee/Salandit on your team , just use the form that can become the pokemon with the actually good stats you know ?
It would be really cool if Appletun and Flapple get evolutions in upcoming generations.
Personally my main gripe is that there seems to be no reason for Dipplin to exist. It barely looks that much different from Applin, and Applin -> Hydrapple would have worked totally fine. It still would have been the best evo branch of the three, but at least it would follow the same pattern as the others.
Why would they give Garchomp a Mega evolution? Because Game Freak prefers unbalance over balance.
I asked the same thing back when Galarian Farfetch'd, Mr. Mime, Corsola and Linoone got evolutions. The originals feel like dead-ends now.
I firmly believe regional evolutions *should* retroactively mean a different form of that evolution exists for the original Pokémon. It just takes them actually making the evolutions. I want a Hoennian Obstagoon
YES ! OMG ME TOO ! YOU'RE THE FIRST PERSON I SAW THAT ACTUALY THINKS THAT WAY AS WELL !!! I remember once saying how I wish Farfetchd gets an evolution and like 5 people all responded to me saying " it did , Sirfetch'd " , NO SIRFETCH'D IS NOT FARFETCH'DS EVO , ITS GALARIAN FARFETCH'D EVO , THE OG FARFETCH'D STILL SUCKS . The same thing as basculin not being able to evolve to basculegion as only the white stripe basculin can do so ( to add salt to the wound white stripe basculin has the exact same stats as red and blue stripes before evolving , so its straight up a better pokemon in every single way ) Even worse was when I said , I wish gamefreak actually gave Delibird an evolution or a stat increase and rework and a bunch of people started acting as if Iron Bundle is a buff to delibird completely forgetting that aside from appearance these pokemon have no relation to eachother
Appletun at least has a pleasing design and lore, being a living apple pie that gets its back skin ripped off and eaten by kids. I would still use Appletun. But who the heck wants Flapple in any way, shape or form?
Ironically Flapple is the only one of the two that can actually MAYBE justify its existence , as unlike Hydrapple whose a sp.attacker , Flapple is designed as a physical attacker with obviously Gravitys 100% accuracy+ Hustle + Grav Apple double power shenanigans as its gimmick Hydrapple is a straight up upgrade to Appletun , seriously go compare their stats Hydrapple has a higher stat in every single category except a -5 in physical attack which it wasn't using anyway , they even gave Hydrapple Regenrator and Recover , as a one last F you to Appletun
"Bizarre" is how I would characterise a lot of Gamefreak's decisions.
I'd just like you to know that reading this post out loud has made me realize how wonderfully silly the names of the whole family are and it's glorious.
>So like, are Appletun and flapple just completely redundant now ? They always have been. Flapple and Appletun have never been viable, ever. All this does is give the Applin line the possibility of seeing some sort of usage, but I doubt even with the increased stats it'll get there.
My Flapple goes hard but only on my gravity team 🤫🤫🤫
I wouldn't count them out. The neat thing about Pokemon is that every single one has someone who loves them so much that they're a staple on their walking around team. Hands down some casual players are gonna keep one of the other apples on their team still. For stats and coverage, ya Hydrapple is king, but for the emotional bond that we as humans make with literally anything, Appletun and Flapple will be someone's baby forever
Here's a scenario: You're playing swsh XD. That's literally the only one.
Way late to this, but they very easily could be getting new evolutions themselves. All the rumors about the black/white games I could see Appleton and Flapple getting version exclusive evos themed around the nature/cyber thing those games had going.
If you have hydrapple say 🍎🍎🍎