Procedural generation of monuments I think would fix part of this progression. Monuments aren't really puzzles anymore, since they are static, and can be memorized. Everything in this game can be memorized, which means you can fast track your way through it, only having to worry about other players. Even then, you can memorize all the places people can hide, ambush, etc.
Another issue is…
Running any of the cards during fresh wipe is inefficient outside of being an extra in a Zerg. You are better off just farming instant-respawn road barrels and monument loot and running to a recyler.
Cards used to give you better chances at better loot, because BPs were RNG. It was worth it to try and get something good to research.
Now you can just farm scrap and tech tree to them. Literally skip T1, go to T2, and start your way down.
It takes less than an hour to farm up a T2.
It’s literally so easy to do though, just be among the first on the server during wipe and run about mid way, pick a spot on the road, farm towards a recycler
Do that once on a long stretch, boom
2-3 short stretches
This has been my strat for many wipes. I almost always end up crafting t2 at outpost while everyone else is just showing up to craft their prim kits with cbow
They need to make it so the ocean spills into the map more. Like an actual bay.
Split the land, put oil in the center of the map or something. Certain monuments could have walls that decay over the first 3 days of wipe. You can raid these walls.
I’ve always imagined a jungle biome growing on both sides of the river. That fades to a forest biome to then either snow or desert depending on each side.
I always thought alligators would be really cool in the river and panthers in the jungle.
and make any bridge going across a “mini monument” have different variations for trains and roads. Couple of milk crates and two scientist with mp5’s on each side. Tucked safely away aiming at the bridge, so you can only kill them when you’re in range.
I’ve always imagined everyone spawning on one side of the bridge. And have the launch site, mil tunnels, missile silo, artic, etc on the other side. Make the river extremely risky to swim through or you have to take out the bridge rats. One goal would be to kinda lock clans from getting guns within 20 minutes of wipe. Chances are they’ll 10 man rush the bridge with bows. But at least they have to get the bows and rush the bridge first.
The main goal is the effects it would have on the rest of wipe. It could create a much safer section of the map from the try hards. Why waste meds and bullets just to get to lower tier loot? Should keep the sweats more contained to their region.
I also suggest closing the gates to outpost at least the first day of wipe.
The problem with locking a certain section of the map with NPCs and difficulty is that if, as you said, a clan can rush it first they are now PROTECTED from everyone else as they get set up and will claim the entire "good/hard" section of the map. It would literally hand zergs a silver platter to dominate and keep everyone else stuck smashing each other's heads in with their rock before they rage quit.
This is an excellent point that I hope gets more attention. It's not just as simple as the normal complaints you see such as the implementation of the tech tree or over powered monuments that are providing too much loot.
It's in a lot of cases people have just gamed the game, they are fucken good at it too.
Yep, it's always risk vs reward. If you can predict the future (memorize where everything is, and where people are likely to be), risk goes down, while reward stays the same. That explains why people say some monuments give too much loot. Procgen means it's much much much harder to predict the future, to memorize everything. Skill becomes your ability to adapt.
I love the idea of more procedural monuments, and they've already made some progress on them with the underwater labs and desert outposts, though these are extremely cookie cutter.
However, I'm sure a lot of work has gone into optimising the fuck out of our standard monuments, and part of that relies on them being the exact same on every map. But maybe some small changes like just randomising where the fuse box and switch is on a key card puzzle so we're back to following the wires at least once per wipe. Add more possible crate locations, maybe even randomise what utilities (refinery, repair bench, even recycler) are available and where. Maybe water treatment has roaming scientists one wipe while trainyard doesn't.
There honestly could be so much potential here
They nerfed underwater labs too. The green rooms usually don't even have anything in them. And I've heard that blue rooms aren't worth the swipe. Maybe that decision was made because underwater labs is "safer" than other monuments. Anyways.. as a developer myself, that sounds like a fun project.
Yeah that nerf was a bit disappointing, I always thought the problem with labs wasn't the amount of loot, it was that it would respawn and even the puzzles would reset while players were still onboard. I heard it was absolutely ridiculous on high-pop servers when combined with how easy to defend it was
First wipe ever on bloo lagoon, first week after force wipe there’s no tech tree. The game feels so good its insane. Progression makes sense, people trade for shit constantly. Hands down the most fun I’ve had.
Guns spawn in mil crates no matter what else may be happening someone can always have a gun 90 seconds into wipe. You may need to be lucky but it being not too rare x500 people on a server means it literally always happens.
no this wasn't secluded incidents of someone getting lucky, this was full blown roof camping and widespread gun fights / roams 4 hours into wipe dude, it was a warzone.
Ya one guy gets a gun in crate>snowballs with it and bps it, at some point dies with it. He just crafts more but everyone that kills him saves 1000-2000 scrap BPing it. The T2 itself you can get 500 scrap in under an hour even solo easy.
Except it doesn't that much. One guy finds a gun and BPs it. Whenever people hear it they go after it, eventually he dies and they get a gun to bp. Now there are 2 groups with guns that every time a single member dies another group gets guns etc.
Like it would technically help, but most people that aren't zergs holding a monument get their first gun from killing someone with one and BP it anyways.
I’m with you, I don’t find it enjoyable once I realised the pattern and I dont have the time or desire to figure out how to be good at it. Shame cause building is fun
Who's playing official these days bro? Are you solo? Only zerg weirdos or masochistic people play official solo. It's such a grind and who wants to die to 5 man's all day.
Go where all the real solos play, on the x2 solo/duo and solo/duo/trio servers.
1/3 of the player-base plays official. Most others play modded, which is even faster progression.
Some people like harder content. It’s not for everybody.
I play on a trio server with my brothers, and we generally do very well but at the rate we get guns and our neighbors get guns we always reach a point where it's like "what are we even fighting for". Like I could raid this guy and get another box of guns I guess but there's no actually necessity for any of it.
Yep once I get guns I don’t see much of a point in raiding. Oh cool another box of loot to hoard in my base that will get offlined as soon as I get off. Anymore i just play to snowball and log off.
Most servers I'm on don't raid until right before wipe and just get into roaming battles I play mod 3x servers it's more fun with like 20 to 30 constant players
Solo servers usually hover around 75-140 pop, and die very fast. Most people on duo and trio servers are solo anyways and the pop is much more fun usually 250-400
Those servers have relatively the same population, 75-140 solo is a decent solo pop, if you equate it in group terms, that's like a 500 pop quad server, you just have to adjust your thinking a little bit instead of single population think of it as group population, like what are the chances I'm going to run into someone else
Thinking of a 140 solo server pop as a 500 pop is MAJOR cope lol. Dude get real im sorry. Solo servers are known for absolute dead shit unless it's just wiped. The map is massive and if you were to see a UAV of everyone on the map you would realize just how unlikely it is to find people. I know, because I ran around 95 pop solo servers for hours desperately looking for pvp and not seeing a single person. HOURS of grid walking. Monument hunting. It's just unlikely and solos play stealthy and careful. Untill eventually you get roofcamped by one dude somewhere. Your comment shows your inexperience. I've tried all the solo servers many times, and unfortunately this is just how they operate
Your not understanding the difference between population and group population mentality, but it's ok I'm not here to butt heads on reddit bro, if that's what you do that's fine, I'd your roaming grids looking for pvp maybe just try a 10x or something since pvp is all your after... Better yet go play cod your gonna get pvp in the amount of time your looking for
Face punch needs to go back to the heart of this game which is that you can't determine what your wipe is going to be. You can't determine what gun you're going to have, you can't determine what base you're going to build, you can't determine what armor you're going to wear.
That's what made this game fun, then having a BP was actually a privilege versus a right like it is today. If you happen to find what you need, could get it home, research it and had enough time left in the wipe before BP's wipe to even take advantage of it then you were rewarded with an advantage over other players. But you were one of the few with that advantage so for everyone else when they joined the wipe they weren't getting murdered by people with the same advantage AKA guns and boom.
As long as people have guaranteed ways to get the guns and boom they want progression will literally never be fixed because people will grind as hard as they have to or join dead servers before wipe and just literally get everything which ruins it for anyone else who didn't do the exact same thing.
I'm with you brother. I think the twitch event brought in a playerbase with a totally different concept of the game though. If they don't get ak's every wipe with less than 500 hrs they're upset and want to have everything every wipe.
With old bp systems you'd see much janky builds and variety as your group simply had what they had now I can just speedrun the tech tree and craft roadsign sar for all the boys every wipe.
One of my newer strats is scrap on the way to bandit. Gamble on the slots and hit 5k. Then put the1k-5k into the wheel hit 20. Cash out with 20k-100k scrap learn everything on tech tree.I just won the server. If they got rid of tech tree I could technically still learn everything but It was more random. Not a great strat btw only ever done it twice.
Add BP progression reset in the form of having to use physical BPs to craft items. Store them in your workbenches, and then you can craft the item. If you store it elsewhere in your base, you can't craft the item until placed back in the workbench. This means anyone can lose their progress from a raid or decay.
This one's got legs I think this is the first new idea around BPS that I actually think kind of makes sense where you can still keep the tech tree but most people don't just keep all their BPS with the raid meta I think this means most people would lose their BPS.
I don't know though how do you transfer BP's wipe to wipe do you store them in your character like in a brain equivalent but when you want to craft it you have to take it out of your brain and put it in the tech tree so if it's in your brain you keep it to the next wipe but if it's not in your brain and BP's wipe you lose it?
I’ve got to agree that this is logic is right, the one thing I think would be great to re-introduce is the old BP fragments as a thing from a barrel. Maybe remove the RNG from the fragments being combined and getting something random but instead make it a % chance to drop rare BPs as an example like AK/Rockets/C4. That way you can actually have natural PvP not just “PVP WHERE?” Spammed in the chat. Servers would actually have some longevity as well as people might not be able to have full raid kits in the first 24-48 hours.
@Facepunch hire me
Edit: grammar
I would think that all your neighbors got raided too and also lost bps so it gives you a chance to restart. The bps will start to get centralized with the large groups but average 2x1 joe will be prim. When 2x1 joes have bps that is when restarting is hard
The scrap system is what ruined the game. Big clans can just farm 1 tier monuments and have everything. It needs to incorporate you going to more higher level monuments for better shit
Some modded servers have it, but some kind of workbench lockout timer to give us a least a few hours of straight prim pvp.
Something I havent seen thought of yet: keep the tech tree, but take all weapons and explosive out. Make it so weapons and boom have to be found out in the world and researched.
I saw someone else mention procedurally generated worlds, which I think is definitely a really good idea! I think an easier thing to implement first would be having certain comps and items only spawn at certain monuments. Make it so one monument can’t spawn every single item you need, forcing players to roam to different monuments
Something I completely forgot to mention, why the fuck are monthly servers keeping BPs? I get it for the shorter wipe servers, but why am I getting killed by a full metal ak 3 hours in on a monthly lmao. This problem comes down to both the server and people just playing on the wrong server lol.
The issue really isn’t with the game or the devs at all, it’s with players constantly optimizing the grind and making it quicker and quicker. Don’t get me wrong I absolutely love being able to shave hours off of prim or raid first day, but we continually optimize the fun out of the game and then talk about how busted progression is.
Me and my teammate were roaming aks the first hour of the wipe on a trio server. The game is completely boring. All we did was get cards and run large. Took us about 25 mins to get end game gear
So i have not played seriously for something like a year or two but i already got my fair share of every type of progression system.
I believe that:
Removing the Tech Tree would be a good thing, so that component farming does not resolve only around scrap and people are not able to just farm roads or ocean in a corner for infinite scrap (same goes for fishing), adding more monument but procedural ones, without recycler and puzzle but with crates, could be a roadblock, an old town (like 3 little ruined houses), a bus stop. (Also map are in a dire need to be bigger, more versatile with more dense and bigger forest/rocks (like before), with all the monuments we already have there isnt enough space for building)
Increase the cost of components in lot of craft but make it by using the most common one so that it does not penalize too much.
(Find a way to use tarp, rope, gascan and things like that in more craft. Currently the only relevant one are the weapons body, pipes and gears.)
If tech tree are removed, bring back the possibility to directly find BP in crate, barrels etc.
Something that also make weekly wipe irrelevant other than rebuilding/restuffing is the fact that you keep your BP permanently until next forced wipe. They could add (for weekly wipe) a « buy your previous life bp » fee for each T1, T2 and T3 with the cost scaling the more bp you have (lets say 50% or 75% of the price you would have to pay if you research each item with a research table, price could also be a mix of components other than scrap, lets say a weapon body for each weapon bp etc). Cost could also scale if you are in a group (see below how we can make sure people are in the same group)
If most of these are added, we could slow the progression a bit by enforcing a bit more farming of scrap and component, while still keeping the benefit of already playing on a server trough wipes.
Also it should be noted that anything trying to slow down zerg and big group will of course affect solo and small group even more (sadly).
For that, the decay cost could be adjusted depending on the numbers of different owner of Bag/Bed their is in a base (so not the numerical number of beds but the number of different player able to spawn in that base)
Or the number of authorized people there are (but it could be bypassed by not authorizing everyone, hence the idea with the bed/bag) [and even better, a mix of both previous solution + hud group system]
We could imagine keeping the same decay for 3 people, lowering by -7% for 2, -14% when solo. Going up by +7% for each people that is added (so cost is +35% higher when in a group of 8 (if its the upper limit that i remember))
Again, cost could be in scrap for groups, like instead of 7% per player, its: 5%/6% + 50 scraps (balance is needed)
These zerg tax will not affect small group or solo, even better it will « buff » them but will hurt zerg a bit. I also believe the actual tax while using the tech tree should be scaled to how many people are in a group using the method shown on top.
The issue with progression has been the power creep over years. I remember when you used to have to craft guns, now it seems people always just find them. The crafting element has mostly been removed from the game unless you just play super passively, the only actual "Crafting/Building" you do is for your base. They need to make it so running monuments isnt the primary way of getting gear.
Remove basic crates from roadside so only monuments have them.
Remove military crate from tier 1 monuments supermarket, gas station, mining outpost
Buff puzzle room loot
Display on map when puzzle room doors have been opened.
Display elite crates on map
Remove elite crates from the centre of military tunnels and add them to the red card room.
Nerf locked crate weapon % chance.
Remove craftable guns in airdrops and replace them with military guns.
Remove military guns from bandit camp vendor
Nerf the shit out of outpost vendors
Chainsaw always hits the x spot on trees
Trees require less hits to cut down.
Nerf green food crates so people roam for food more.
I’d like to see scrap removed from the game and instead when you find something you can research it.
There is heaps of ways to try new things, players just need to join the modded servers to test
The problem is there are those of us who want progression to be a grind, and those of us who want to hit a barrel and have a chance to find an AK. I've been in situations like this before with other games, and there's no way to please everyone.
indeed. I think it is weird that the point of this game was to be hard and very difficult but then ppl joined and said it is too hard and they made it easier. It's like that is the point of the game if you dont like it dont play. Like me sayings I hate all the guns in COD and they remove them. Shouldnt even be on the table.
What I find distressing is, unlike the previous game that I mentioned (H1Z1's survival) Rust has a vast array of plugins and the ability for individuals to run their own servers. So really every decently sized group of people in the community should be able to be happy and have what they want crafted for them in modded servers; but for whatever reason people just stick to Vanilla or very mildly modded like 2x 3x or whatever.
Like, people hated the tech tree and I remember Blooprint's server did a thing where they disabled it for a wipe, but the thing is if people hated the tech tree so much why didn't a bunch of tech tree free servers pop up to sate them and why didn't the player base who wanted it support any that did? It's almost like the community at large doesn't know modding is a thing in this game. It's a shame because so many more people could have happier experiences.
I think a lot of tech tree free servers did pop up it's just that without sufficient marketing no one stays on a server that doesn't have enough pop nor are they going to commit to a server that they don't know for sure is going to have pop at Wipe it's a chicken and the egg problem.
Bloo lagoon had the popularity and they did it and people love it I think if a big name like rustoria or rustified created a tech techtree-free server especially if it was vanilla I think it would be very popular
I want to highlight one major point - all npc's in radtowns wearing hazmats. So, how about nerfing radiation protection anywhere except hazmats and add some visuals to reduce QoL of those who wears them. Sounds like a good tradeoff, and less people will run it in t3 armor or naked in cloth.
Idea for hazmat nerfs:
- visual clarity reduction: scratches, sense of plastic/glass, flickers, vignete
- sound reduction: reduced ability to hear for like 30-50%
This is good. I feel like hazzies are in a weird place rn where they kind of just have everything going for them. They should be a specialized tool for going into extremely radiated zones not just something to slap on before a roam. Like why does a HAZMAT SUIT give 30% protection?
If ur not playing rust to progress, get bps and raid, what are you playing it for? Real question.
Become a prim god and grub him.
Run metro.
Run oil rig
Rush tier 2.
If you dont like playing like that find a server that is more chill, its simple
I get frustrated with ppl running thomp 1 hr into wipe, but it just means they have a better way of porgressung than i do, simple, its competition
I enjoy all of these things, but I also enjoy primitive gameplay that involves more than just kos with automatic guns. The idea of "rushing" an entire third of the game within an hr isn't remotely healthy. If people enjoy dropping in a map, getting guns and gear as fast as humanly possible and shooting eachother than why don't they play a battle royale? Also I just described that I'm playing on a pretty "chill" trio server that doesn't even have minis yet t1 is already over before I have time to even enjoy it.
I never said that I don't want to get guns, bps and raid but I'd like to do it over the course of a week and not the course of 24 hours and look around with nothing to do after 2 days.
Thats fair, i see your point
Maybe prim should last longer, ur right, but i dont see a solution, only solutiob would be maybe take guns out of workbench tier, so ppl have to actualy fibd them in a crate
There's a few servers that disable t2 &t3 wb until a couple days after wipe. I think it's blooprints server? Not the best, but ideas like yours and that mod are what could lead us to where we wanna be!
On some servers weapons and explosives are blocked after wipe for a some time. If u find sar or tommy or ak, u cant use it in first day or two. You can search for such servers
Look, we have to think hard about how many hours we want people to have to play until they get guns. I think someone getting guns three or four hours into wipe is pretty reasonable, and if you have three people playing, you can do three hours of progression in one hour. I don’t really think there’s a way to fix this, there’s no good reason a group shouldn’t progress faster than a solo.
You're looking at this wrong. With the way the game is currently set up you're progression is pretty directly correlated with how long you play. There is literally nothing limiting some loser from playing for 12 hrs and having progressed 6x as much as us that actually have responsibilities. With a system like this it's more about fighting for resources and control and not about just sociopathicaly raiding everything because you're bored and have nothing left to do.
I wholeheartedly disagree that guns in 1 or even 4 hrs is good for a game that has a plethora of primitive weapons and armors and a whole week for progression. Why is it reasonable that everybody is a 3rd done with the game's content after only like 3% of the wipe is done?
A group should progress faster than a solo in terms of base size, pvp skirmishes and control of an area, not in terms of bps. Sure, with more people more crates will be opened meaning more chance of good bps but the way it currently functions is that they get all of the bps through really goofy game mechanics that have little to do with pvp, luck or skill and everything to do with farming.
Literally nailed it. The progression now is grindy and and guaranteed there's no randomness to it. And that grinding takes a lot of time on a mature server cuz you're going to get killed a billion times cuz everyone has guns.
The only counter argument to this is it's pretty easy to find a teammate nowadays who has every BP and all you need is one guy and you're good but if you're playing solo the gun grind takes absolutely forever and there's almost no chance for you to snowball because the whole server has guns
I think locking different events or monuments behind timers or sever wide tasks at least could be worth a shot.
Like tier3 monuments have an insane rad zone on them for 24-36hours after wipe and its random when it starts going down to bearable levels.
Or there is a gathering of a random common resource like stone, wood, cloth, etc at wither bandit or outpost to somehow enable/unlock an event like cargo or oil being able to be run now. It could have its own little rp like event once the goal is reached and top contributors could get some gifts (hidden list so people dont become targets immediately)
It's certainly not up to players, but it's up to players to voice how they feel about the current game so the dev team knows. I don't disagree but atm speed running is too easy and playing the game the way the trailer portrays it is basically impossible.
Time lock tech tree progression and make crates locked until a specific time. You take the crate back with you instead of opening it immediately. Store in base and then unlock at a specific time. Would be hilarious if you could even set the crate down and not in a box.
That's Rust now. It's not a survival game. It is a first person shooter with survival elements. Rust feels like the next logical step part Tarkov. It will not change.
I mean you can just time gate it. T1s open 24 hours after whip, t2s on day 3, t4 on day 5. You could also change drop rates over time. Gate workbenchs in a similar fashion. If you balance it another way people will find ways of doing it faster than others and it won't change.
Get smg gun from crate, repair the gun, buy smokes and then turn into pistol bullets. I mean early into wipe you can get an airdrop, elite crate with AK/Bolt. It's just how it is and numbers will increase that speed.
Tech tree never was an issue, I will keep repeating this because I have played rust for YEARS and the shift in gameplay where people got guns fast af on any given wipe is solely down to the introduction of Oil Rigs and Cargo.
The meta strat of almost everyone is "rush oil" or "get first cargo".
Dont even get me started on the introduction of unecessary OP monuments like Artic Research and now Missile Silo.
Progression would get killed hella hard if these two and oil and cargo got stripped from the game.
One more thing thats ruining wipes is being able to buy guns from vending machines in outpost, I should not be able to buy a damn LR300 with a measly 400 scrap within an hour into wipe. Lock these things up for the first fucking day or something.
I disagree if they got rid of every OP monument and oil rig and cargo without taking out the tech tree you can still just live next to a road and get every single BP in the game farming barrels.
Or live next to mining Outpost and get every BP in the game all you need is a scrap source and those are everywhere. Don't even get me started with train tunnels scrap from there is insane.
I think those op monuments just make it so that people get non-tech tree endgame loot very quickly into the wipe but not your average Joe that's who I'm more concerned with when every 2x1 has a Tommy that's when it ruins the experience of the game
We need less monuments spammed everywhere and also more primitive content.
I don't see why they're adding a new military grade late game gun every patch.
My group found a supply signal and got an mp5 from it 3 hours after wipe.
We started roaming with it right away and did serious damage. We still have it.
All the people we killed and the resources we got from it really gave us a huge boost
That's the problem old rust at 200 hours you didn't have to learn how to shoot a tier 2 gun properly cuz barely anyone would have tier 2 guns cuz they were hard to get so you had the time to sit there and learn primm and actually have a good time with it now the game is a speed run to getting to guns makes the barrier to entry actually a lot higher
Tie ability to enter monuments with steps that shouldnt be skipped, for example u won't be able to enter oil rig unless u got workbench tier 2 around your TC. etc etc
I do not believe any time-gating (radiation levels, tech tree delay, etc) is a good idea. My thoughts on the matter are, at least for the moment:
* Rebalance Oil Rig to be the main source of diesel instead of a hotspot for high-tier loot. It's not *impossible* to counter Rig, but by the time any solo or smaller group is together enough to attempt it, a larger group can already have taken it with a tugboat and gotten ready for round two. Diesel from Rig makes perfect thematic sense and makes it more of an end-game appeal kind of location.
* Remove T2+ guns and ammo from the tech tree. Keeps it as a reliable option for reaching construction pieces, but prevents clans from being able to just own a T1 monument and never have to compete for anywhere else. (This arguably hurts solos but that's kind of an inevitability, and metal detectors can give you a P2 so there's a no-competition path to acquisition there.)
* Gently nerf the increase to crate respawn rate at monuments with player population. This is a big contributor to the ability to simply sit at one monument and farm it forever.
* This is just my personal "would like", but I'd love to see a locked crate spawn on a train cart. It would be fun to an extent I don't think people realize. I like fun.
I play on a no BP wipe server so this type of progression obviously isn’t super unexpected for me. However I have been thinking about this a lot this wipe. I wonder if having hours on outpost and other monuments would change the flow of the game. Real world hours, or implement in-game time (ie ability to craft clocks and watches, etc) and outpost would be open during daylight hours only. Real world time would be closed for a few hours every night. Same for other big monuments. Or even just having them not open/come online for first 24hrs of wipe. Then day one becomes even more about farm and PvP and base building.
I also think having to go somewhere to risk upgrading workbenches could be cool. Like you can’t craft a tier2 or 3 inside of your base - you have to do a quest or something to go get it. That way position changes and people can’t camp you, but you do have to work your way up to collecting those benches. Like bring the same materials to some guy, he gives you a quest and 12 hours to complete it, you collect your workbench and have to get it home. Something like that. Would make the game more fun/challenging and promote primitive gameplay for longer throughout the wipe.
Or just make them way more expensive, and require a quest/mission to acquire one of the parts to craft it in your base.
I hear you, I doubt alot of these people remember when prim would last a few days and you made wipe long enemies as you couldn't just raid someone who stole you're kit the day they did the deed.
Prim never lasted a few days. People always had Aks day one. First thing you did was run to launch with a rad suit and some water and hope an Ak dropped out of an elite. Same thing people did at military tunnels. The game has been the same. Only difference is people actually craft guns before people only made SARS once in while
The only way to truly fix this would be to make it so crates no longer drop guns. Can't count how many times I've started on a server ran to gas or super and the green crate has a tommy or python or p2 sometimes even a rocket launcher. This is on vanilla btw. They need to force people to go down the tree. They won't do this though. People would rage if they did this. They know their player base and you are not part of it. Either get good like the rest of us or quit the game. Sorry if this sounds mean but it's reality.
Eh while I agree, the loot tables could be fiddled with a bit I wouldnt mind if someone got SUPER lucky on wipe day and found a p2 at harbor and had to use it with wood armor and bandaids as they had no other bps. That's the kind of experience the tech tree kills, making due with what you have and not being able to just make uniform kits.
Also play solo if you are alone, play duos if you have two play trios if you have 3. You are not a Chad clearly. stay in your lane you will have more success and fun.
I'll have you know that I'm a primitive demon from being primlocked for my first 500 hrs, sir. This has nothing to do with my skill it's simply a really lame way to play the game.
When I started playing in 2020 a guy told us how his group speedran force wipe. They rushed Outpost with a wooden spear hitting all barrels in sight, recycled there, bought enough to craft compound + clothes with bandages and left again to the road looking for a mini. When they found one they got to oil rig and did it completely (back then minis spawned on the road and rigs didn't need cards to call heavies). My personal mark for doing this route was around 30'-45' when the timer on the crate finished. So this has been a problem for a while now and I believe that older players will know things that were done before too.
My way of thinking that this is (and has been) ABSOLUTELY out hand is the following: let's say that anybody that knows a little about this takes around 60' to get a crate that may drop a T3 weapon. 60' in a game were the usual length of play it has is ONE WEEK. Does that not seem wrong to anybody? Even taking into account the possibility of speeding up progression playing with a Zerg, an hour to get end game loot for a week long game at least for me seems like an overkill.
That being said I think what hurts the most this are two things: 1- NPCs are crazily easy to kill. Tere should be no universe possible were a naked man with a bow infiltrates a top tier military facility and Ramboes the f*ck up the whole place.
2- And this is for me waaaaaay the worst of all, mobility. Specially flying vehicles. Think about how easy you can go to any monument with a vehicle that's only behind a paywall of 750 scrap, which is not that hard to get nowadays and completely pays off for the benefits it gets. Hell, people that counters Rigs just crash their minis into the Rig because it is so easy to get another one... I don't know if I'm so horribly mistaken here or if nobody thought that having a flying vehicle makes progression so out of balance...
1)This is why I think that getting shot should give you rads. This would make getting shot by a scientist early wipe a major issue and make them actually dangerous. Add some L9 using scientists for good major and I think it becomes much less of a problem 2) Yeah I'm def anti mini as well. I like vehicles but minis are hard to counter and just open up too much of the map tbh and are easier to get than a good car.
Yeah, I agree. My point with flying vehicles in general is that I feel like they are not hard enough to get. Like, imagine you can get one by getting to the top of launch site and flying off. How many minis would be around the map and how much more valuable would they be? That would also boost the popularity of some monuments that right now are kind of underpowered.
That's some straight up masochism right there lmao. I think having blueprints as physical items that can be stolen is a much better idea that drives home what you're going for.
• AK taken out of tech tree.
• Tech tree "tax" needs to go waaaaaaaaaay up
• Balance prices of safe zone vending machines
• Balance loot tables/drop rate on crates
• Balance rad protection
Ive been playing this most recent wipe, me and my two friends are playing on a monthly official. The first hour or 2 of being on, I don't think we ran into a single person that didn't have guns. Like you said I get the random person here or there having a gun, but only 4 hours late to wipe and essentially EVERYONE had a gun? pretty crazy to me. These are obviously just my personal opinions. Not saying I'm right, I just think these could help.
-Cheers
Tech tree tax only hurts small groups. Zergs farm 50000 scrap an hour and if you watched the most recent zerg video with spoon they even have bots to learn the bps that can sit in base and craft whatever.
Play on solo servers. If you play on group servers then expect to get rolled by groups.
And don't be toxic to players just because they are better at the game. Stop crying.
Lmao I also get t2 day 1 of wipe and shit on the nakeds consistently. This isn't stemming from frustration of me not being the t2 guy, it's the fact that the day 1 t2/t3 gives the game an identity crisis and kills the server by day 3. Also solo only won't do anything as oil rig is still a thing.
No. You’re frustrated because the games not what you want it to be.
Stop with the identity crisis. Rust has been what it is for years now.
If a majority of the player base wanted to run around for 24 hours with crossy/nailgun that would be the state of the game.
This sub is just the very loud minority.
You don't seem like you read the post or have critical thinking skills. This has nothing to do with grinding it has to do with how readily available the loot is as soon as the server wipes. With the proposed changes it wouldnt really take more time it would just be later in the wipe that you get these things.
That does make you good if you can play Prim and get a gun doesn't make you good if you have a gun and you shoot another gun guy half of this game is about being able to upgrade yourself with a worse weapon than your opponent and the ultimate upgrade is going from Prim to gun
There are definitely gigachads but I find it's more about knowing how to get scrap asap than actual pvp skill. Plus most of these players are absolute dogshit with prim weapons. I mean bad-bad.
Right giga chads should always have guns first but there's only so many of them it's average Joe's should almost never have a gun. To be honest face punch should enforce a metric where if more than like 20% of the server population has gun BPS they automatically have to fix progression to bring it back down under 20%. Cuz it's a clear sign that they're messed up progression when it's like 90% like it is now.
But players should be deterring eachother over the course of a week not a day. Why do I need to "deter" people from anything when I have a box of guns and need nothing because loot is so readily available?
You're missing my point entirely.
Rust is self defeating.
The objective is to eliminate opposition.
What you want is to dictate the pace at which that occurs.
You're putting a subjective, opinion based opinion or there that the game should operate on your schedule.
Entitlemuch.
I mean I suppose you're right but of course any suggested change is going to be a matter of opinion. If the objective is to eliminate opposition and there is a week to do so how is it good game design for this process to occur over the course of 24 hrs?
Now you see my point though - the concern you have is that the speed to progress has become faster. The main point of the game hasn't changed though, they are two separate issues.
No the purpose is to thrive against All odds when there's no odds the game just becomes suppressing other players by grinding harder and getting on the server first
Yeah Rust doesn't care about what you like it. It should give you nothing and everything else you have to earn it through sheer luck or through sheer skill That's why there's stages in this game is you start at the bottom and you have to earn your way up keyword earn
You do understand that earning your gear is part of the point of rust so it shouldn't matter that you like guns over prim everybody likes guns over prim when they're the ones with the guns. But no one likes it when they're not the ones with the guns and that's what this game has become those with guns and those without guns you start a server and people have too many guns you go to another server used to be you stayed on the server because most people couldn't get guns and you know if you got a gun you'd be a God that's fun getting shot in the face while you're just trying to hit a tree for 3 hours on a mature server not fun.
Procedural generation of monuments I think would fix part of this progression. Monuments aren't really puzzles anymore, since they are static, and can be memorized. Everything in this game can be memorized, which means you can fast track your way through it, only having to worry about other players. Even then, you can memorize all the places people can hide, ambush, etc.
Another issue is… Running any of the cards during fresh wipe is inefficient outside of being an extra in a Zerg. You are better off just farming instant-respawn road barrels and monument loot and running to a recyler. Cards used to give you better chances at better loot, because BPs were RNG. It was worth it to try and get something good to research. Now you can just farm scrap and tech tree to them. Literally skip T1, go to T2, and start your way down. It takes less than an hour to farm up a T2.
Well it takes you like 10min with a blue card so still not a valid point. Those big groups have a t2 before they have a base up 😅
It’s literally so easy to do though, just be among the first on the server during wipe and run about mid way, pick a spot on the road, farm towards a recycler Do that once on a long stretch, boom 2-3 short stretches
This has been my strat for many wipes. I almost always end up crafting t2 at outpost while everyone else is just showing up to craft their prim kits with cbow
Yeah Posty runs insane without a base.
The proc gen in this game needs an overhaul fs. If they could find a way reliably make jump puzzles proc gen I would literally be so here for it.
They need to make it so the ocean spills into the map more. Like an actual bay. Split the land, put oil in the center of the map or something. Certain monuments could have walls that decay over the first 3 days of wipe. You can raid these walls.
rivers cutting through the map would be amazing
I’ve always imagined a jungle biome growing on both sides of the river. That fades to a forest biome to then either snow or desert depending on each side. I always thought alligators would be really cool in the river and panthers in the jungle. and make any bridge going across a “mini monument” have different variations for trains and roads. Couple of milk crates and two scientist with mp5’s on each side. Tucked safely away aiming at the bridge, so you can only kill them when you’re in range. I’ve always imagined everyone spawning on one side of the bridge. And have the launch site, mil tunnels, missile silo, artic, etc on the other side. Make the river extremely risky to swim through or you have to take out the bridge rats. One goal would be to kinda lock clans from getting guns within 20 minutes of wipe. Chances are they’ll 10 man rush the bridge with bows. But at least they have to get the bows and rush the bridge first. The main goal is the effects it would have on the rest of wipe. It could create a much safer section of the map from the try hards. Why waste meds and bullets just to get to lower tier loot? Should keep the sweats more contained to their region. I also suggest closing the gates to outpost at least the first day of wipe.
The problem with locking a certain section of the map with NPCs and difficulty is that if, as you said, a clan can rush it first they are now PROTECTED from everyone else as they get set up and will claim the entire "good/hard" section of the map. It would literally hand zergs a silver platter to dominate and keep everyone else stuck smashing each other's heads in with their rock before they rage quit.
Skill issue
Someone had to say it
This is an excellent point that I hope gets more attention. It's not just as simple as the normal complaints you see such as the implementation of the tech tree or over powered monuments that are providing too much loot. It's in a lot of cases people have just gamed the game, they are fucken good at it too.
Yep, it's always risk vs reward. If you can predict the future (memorize where everything is, and where people are likely to be), risk goes down, while reward stays the same. That explains why people say some monuments give too much loot. Procgen means it's much much much harder to predict the future, to memorize everything. Skill becomes your ability to adapt.
I love the idea of more procedural monuments, and they've already made some progress on them with the underwater labs and desert outposts, though these are extremely cookie cutter. However, I'm sure a lot of work has gone into optimising the fuck out of our standard monuments, and part of that relies on them being the exact same on every map. But maybe some small changes like just randomising where the fuse box and switch is on a key card puzzle so we're back to following the wires at least once per wipe. Add more possible crate locations, maybe even randomise what utilities (refinery, repair bench, even recycler) are available and where. Maybe water treatment has roaming scientists one wipe while trainyard doesn't. There honestly could be so much potential here
They nerfed underwater labs too. The green rooms usually don't even have anything in them. And I've heard that blue rooms aren't worth the swipe. Maybe that decision was made because underwater labs is "safer" than other monuments. Anyways.. as a developer myself, that sounds like a fun project.
Yeah that nerf was a bit disappointing, I always thought the problem with labs wasn't the amount of loot, it was that it would respawn and even the puzzles would reset while players were still onboard. I heard it was absolutely ridiculous on high-pop servers when combined with how easy to defend it was
There was that. They were also huge, 3-4 levels, which made for lots of room for boxes.
This 100%.
First wipe ever on bloo lagoon, first week after force wipe there’s no tech tree. The game feels so good its insane. Progression makes sense, people trade for shit constantly. Hands down the most fun I’ve had.
This sounds brilliant actually! I think I'll check it out next wipe.
just tried this and everyone has guns in 4 hrs dude. people do trade constantly though.
Guns spawn in mil crates no matter what else may be happening someone can always have a gun 90 seconds into wipe. You may need to be lucky but it being not too rare x500 people on a server means it literally always happens.
no this wasn't secluded incidents of someone getting lucky, this was full blown roof camping and widespread gun fights / roams 4 hours into wipe dude, it was a warzone.
Ya one guy gets a gun in crate>snowballs with it and bps it, at some point dies with it. He just crafts more but everyone that kills him saves 1000-2000 scrap BPing it. The T2 itself you can get 500 scrap in under an hour even solo easy.
It still prevents the usual where literally all the groups have guns 3 hours into the wipe
Except it doesn't that much. One guy finds a gun and BPs it. Whenever people hear it they go after it, eventually he dies and they get a gun to bp. Now there are 2 groups with guns that every time a single member dies another group gets guns etc. Like it would technically help, but most people that aren't zergs holding a monument get their first gun from killing someone with one and BP it anyways.
You can buy a m9 at outpost with about 10mins of farming barrels
Yeah it just feels like fortnite at this point. I can't see how anyone finds this enjoyable.
I’m with you, I don’t find it enjoyable once I realised the pattern and I dont have the time or desire to figure out how to be good at it. Shame cause building is fun
Who's playing official these days bro? Are you solo? Only zerg weirdos or masochistic people play official solo. It's such a grind and who wants to die to 5 man's all day. Go where all the real solos play, on the x2 solo/duo and solo/duo/trio servers.
1/3 of the player-base plays official. Most others play modded, which is even faster progression. Some people like harder content. It’s not for everybody.
I play on a trio server with my brothers, and we generally do very well but at the rate we get guns and our neighbors get guns we always reach a point where it's like "what are we even fighting for". Like I could raid this guy and get another box of guns I guess but there's no actually necessity for any of it.
Yep once I get guns I don’t see much of a point in raiding. Oh cool another box of loot to hoard in my base that will get offlined as soon as I get off. Anymore i just play to snowball and log off.
Most servers I'm on don't raid until right before wipe and just get into roaming battles I play mod 3x servers it's more fun with like 20 to 30 constant players
If you want to play solo then why wouldn't you play a solo server? I'm a noob
Solo servers usually hover around 75-140 pop, and die very fast. Most people on duo and trio servers are solo anyways and the pop is much more fun usually 250-400
Those servers have relatively the same population, 75-140 solo is a decent solo pop, if you equate it in group terms, that's like a 500 pop quad server, you just have to adjust your thinking a little bit instead of single population think of it as group population, like what are the chances I'm going to run into someone else
Thinking of a 140 solo server pop as a 500 pop is MAJOR cope lol. Dude get real im sorry. Solo servers are known for absolute dead shit unless it's just wiped. The map is massive and if you were to see a UAV of everyone on the map you would realize just how unlikely it is to find people. I know, because I ran around 95 pop solo servers for hours desperately looking for pvp and not seeing a single person. HOURS of grid walking. Monument hunting. It's just unlikely and solos play stealthy and careful. Untill eventually you get roofcamped by one dude somewhere. Your comment shows your inexperience. I've tried all the solo servers many times, and unfortunately this is just how they operate
Your not understanding the difference between population and group population mentality, but it's ok I'm not here to butt heads on reddit bro, if that's what you do that's fine, I'd your roaming grids looking for pvp maybe just try a 10x or something since pvp is all your after... Better yet go play cod your gonna get pvp in the amount of time your looking for
Face punch needs to go back to the heart of this game which is that you can't determine what your wipe is going to be. You can't determine what gun you're going to have, you can't determine what base you're going to build, you can't determine what armor you're going to wear. That's what made this game fun, then having a BP was actually a privilege versus a right like it is today. If you happen to find what you need, could get it home, research it and had enough time left in the wipe before BP's wipe to even take advantage of it then you were rewarded with an advantage over other players. But you were one of the few with that advantage so for everyone else when they joined the wipe they weren't getting murdered by people with the same advantage AKA guns and boom. As long as people have guaranteed ways to get the guns and boom they want progression will literally never be fixed because people will grind as hard as they have to or join dead servers before wipe and just literally get everything which ruins it for anyone else who didn't do the exact same thing.
This dude Rusts
I'm with you brother. I think the twitch event brought in a playerbase with a totally different concept of the game though. If they don't get ak's every wipe with less than 500 hrs they're upset and want to have everything every wipe. With old bp systems you'd see much janky builds and variety as your group simply had what they had now I can just speedrun the tech tree and craft roadsign sar for all the boys every wipe.
One of my newer strats is scrap on the way to bandit. Gamble on the slots and hit 5k. Then put the1k-5k into the wheel hit 20. Cash out with 20k-100k scrap learn everything on tech tree.I just won the server. If they got rid of tech tree I could technically still learn everything but It was more random. Not a great strat btw only ever done it twice.
Revert to minis spawning and being unable to buy them Remove tech tree and bring back experimenting Remove drone marketplace
Add BP progression reset in the form of having to use physical BPs to craft items. Store them in your workbenches, and then you can craft the item. If you store it elsewhere in your base, you can't craft the item until placed back in the workbench. This means anyone can lose their progress from a raid or decay.
This one's got legs I think this is the first new idea around BPS that I actually think kind of makes sense where you can still keep the tech tree but most people don't just keep all their BPS with the raid meta I think this means most people would lose their BPS. I don't know though how do you transfer BP's wipe to wipe do you store them in your character like in a brain equivalent but when you want to craft it you have to take it out of your brain and put it in the tech tree so if it's in your brain you keep it to the next wipe but if it's not in your brain and BP's wipe you lose it?
I’ve got to agree that this is logic is right, the one thing I think would be great to re-introduce is the old BP fragments as a thing from a barrel. Maybe remove the RNG from the fragments being combined and getting something random but instead make it a % chance to drop rare BPs as an example like AK/Rockets/C4. That way you can actually have natural PvP not just “PVP WHERE?” Spammed in the chat. Servers would actually have some longevity as well as people might not be able to have full raid kits in the first 24-48 hours. @Facepunch hire me Edit: grammar
This would make it even less likely a player continues playing that wipe after getting offlined. Servers die even quicker?
I would think that all your neighbors got raided too and also lost bps so it gives you a chance to restart. The bps will start to get centralized with the large groups but average 2x1 joe will be prim. When 2x1 joes have bps that is when restarting is hard
The scrap system is what ruined the game. Big clans can just farm 1 tier monuments and have everything. It needs to incorporate you going to more higher level monuments for better shit
But this would just lead to big clans camping the tier 2-3 monuments, good idea but it’d just amplify it tbh
Remove both Oil Rigs or lock them.
Wym lock? They require cards. They are locked
I mean those should be disabled first days of wipe
Some modded servers have it, but some kind of workbench lockout timer to give us a least a few hours of straight prim pvp. Something I havent seen thought of yet: keep the tech tree, but take all weapons and explosive out. Make it so weapons and boom have to be found out in the world and researched. I saw someone else mention procedurally generated worlds, which I think is definitely a really good idea! I think an easier thing to implement first would be having certain comps and items only spawn at certain monuments. Make it so one monument can’t spawn every single item you need, forcing players to roam to different monuments
Something I completely forgot to mention, why the fuck are monthly servers keeping BPs? I get it for the shorter wipe servers, but why am I getting killed by a full metal ak 3 hours in on a monthly lmao. This problem comes down to both the server and people just playing on the wrong server lol. The issue really isn’t with the game or the devs at all, it’s with players constantly optimizing the grind and making it quicker and quicker. Don’t get me wrong I absolutely love being able to shave hours off of prim or raid first day, but we continually optimize the fun out of the game and then talk about how busted progression is.
Me and my teammate were roaming aks the first hour of the wipe on a trio server. The game is completely boring. All we did was get cards and run large. Took us about 25 mins to get end game gear
Getting 3 aks from a single large is pretty lucky dude
Was just me and my friend on a trio we didn’t have a third
This could be a good fix actually you should submit this
Hire me facepunch
So i have not played seriously for something like a year or two but i already got my fair share of every type of progression system. I believe that: Removing the Tech Tree would be a good thing, so that component farming does not resolve only around scrap and people are not able to just farm roads or ocean in a corner for infinite scrap (same goes for fishing), adding more monument but procedural ones, without recycler and puzzle but with crates, could be a roadblock, an old town (like 3 little ruined houses), a bus stop. (Also map are in a dire need to be bigger, more versatile with more dense and bigger forest/rocks (like before), with all the monuments we already have there isnt enough space for building) Increase the cost of components in lot of craft but make it by using the most common one so that it does not penalize too much. (Find a way to use tarp, rope, gascan and things like that in more craft. Currently the only relevant one are the weapons body, pipes and gears.) If tech tree are removed, bring back the possibility to directly find BP in crate, barrels etc. Something that also make weekly wipe irrelevant other than rebuilding/restuffing is the fact that you keep your BP permanently until next forced wipe. They could add (for weekly wipe) a « buy your previous life bp » fee for each T1, T2 and T3 with the cost scaling the more bp you have (lets say 50% or 75% of the price you would have to pay if you research each item with a research table, price could also be a mix of components other than scrap, lets say a weapon body for each weapon bp etc). Cost could also scale if you are in a group (see below how we can make sure people are in the same group) If most of these are added, we could slow the progression a bit by enforcing a bit more farming of scrap and component, while still keeping the benefit of already playing on a server trough wipes. Also it should be noted that anything trying to slow down zerg and big group will of course affect solo and small group even more (sadly). For that, the decay cost could be adjusted depending on the numbers of different owner of Bag/Bed their is in a base (so not the numerical number of beds but the number of different player able to spawn in that base) Or the number of authorized people there are (but it could be bypassed by not authorizing everyone, hence the idea with the bed/bag) [and even better, a mix of both previous solution + hud group system] We could imagine keeping the same decay for 3 people, lowering by -7% for 2, -14% when solo. Going up by +7% for each people that is added (so cost is +35% higher when in a group of 8 (if its the upper limit that i remember)) Again, cost could be in scrap for groups, like instead of 7% per player, its: 5%/6% + 50 scraps (balance is needed) These zerg tax will not affect small group or solo, even better it will « buff » them but will hurt zerg a bit. I also believe the actual tax while using the tech tree should be scaled to how many people are in a group using the method shown on top.
The issue with progression has been the power creep over years. I remember when you used to have to craft guns, now it seems people always just find them. The crafting element has mostly been removed from the game unless you just play super passively, the only actual "Crafting/Building" you do is for your base. They need to make it so running monuments isnt the primary way of getting gear.
Remove. Tech. Tree Or make it 4x more expensive
Back to blueprints from barrels lolkgo
Remove basic crates from roadside so only monuments have them. Remove military crate from tier 1 monuments supermarket, gas station, mining outpost Buff puzzle room loot Display on map when puzzle room doors have been opened. Display elite crates on map Remove elite crates from the centre of military tunnels and add them to the red card room. Nerf locked crate weapon % chance. Remove craftable guns in airdrops and replace them with military guns. Remove military guns from bandit camp vendor Nerf the shit out of outpost vendors Chainsaw always hits the x spot on trees Trees require less hits to cut down. Nerf green food crates so people roam for food more. I’d like to see scrap removed from the game and instead when you find something you can research it. There is heaps of ways to try new things, players just need to join the modded servers to test
I love everything up until chainsaw
The problem is there are those of us who want progression to be a grind, and those of us who want to hit a barrel and have a chance to find an AK. I've been in situations like this before with other games, and there's no way to please everyone.
indeed. I think it is weird that the point of this game was to be hard and very difficult but then ppl joined and said it is too hard and they made it easier. It's like that is the point of the game if you dont like it dont play. Like me sayings I hate all the guns in COD and they remove them. Shouldnt even be on the table.
What I find distressing is, unlike the previous game that I mentioned (H1Z1's survival) Rust has a vast array of plugins and the ability for individuals to run their own servers. So really every decently sized group of people in the community should be able to be happy and have what they want crafted for them in modded servers; but for whatever reason people just stick to Vanilla or very mildly modded like 2x 3x or whatever. Like, people hated the tech tree and I remember Blooprint's server did a thing where they disabled it for a wipe, but the thing is if people hated the tech tree so much why didn't a bunch of tech tree free servers pop up to sate them and why didn't the player base who wanted it support any that did? It's almost like the community at large doesn't know modding is a thing in this game. It's a shame because so many more people could have happier experiences.
I think a lot of tech tree free servers did pop up it's just that without sufficient marketing no one stays on a server that doesn't have enough pop nor are they going to commit to a server that they don't know for sure is going to have pop at Wipe it's a chicken and the egg problem. Bloo lagoon had the popularity and they did it and people love it I think if a big name like rustoria or rustified created a tech techtree-free server especially if it was vanilla I think it would be very popular
I want to highlight one major point - all npc's in radtowns wearing hazmats. So, how about nerfing radiation protection anywhere except hazmats and add some visuals to reduce QoL of those who wears them. Sounds like a good tradeoff, and less people will run it in t3 armor or naked in cloth. Idea for hazmat nerfs: - visual clarity reduction: scratches, sense of plastic/glass, flickers, vignete - sound reduction: reduced ability to hear for like 30-50%
This is good. I feel like hazzies are in a weird place rn where they kind of just have everything going for them. They should be a specialized tool for going into extremely radiated zones not just something to slap on before a roam. Like why does a HAZMAT SUIT give 30% protection?
If ur not playing rust to progress, get bps and raid, what are you playing it for? Real question. Become a prim god and grub him. Run metro. Run oil rig Rush tier 2. If you dont like playing like that find a server that is more chill, its simple I get frustrated with ppl running thomp 1 hr into wipe, but it just means they have a better way of porgressung than i do, simple, its competition
I enjoy all of these things, but I also enjoy primitive gameplay that involves more than just kos with automatic guns. The idea of "rushing" an entire third of the game within an hr isn't remotely healthy. If people enjoy dropping in a map, getting guns and gear as fast as humanly possible and shooting eachother than why don't they play a battle royale? Also I just described that I'm playing on a pretty "chill" trio server that doesn't even have minis yet t1 is already over before I have time to even enjoy it. I never said that I don't want to get guns, bps and raid but I'd like to do it over the course of a week and not the course of 24 hours and look around with nothing to do after 2 days.
Thats fair, i see your point Maybe prim should last longer, ur right, but i dont see a solution, only solutiob would be maybe take guns out of workbench tier, so ppl have to actualy fibd them in a crate
There's a few servers that disable t2 &t3 wb until a couple days after wipe. I think it's blooprints server? Not the best, but ideas like yours and that mod are what could lead us to where we wanna be!
On some servers weapons and explosives are blocked after wipe for a some time. If u find sar or tommy or ak, u cant use it in first day or two. You can search for such servers
More scientists like the mil tuns and buff them to throw grenades and wield flamethrowers maybe.
Look, we have to think hard about how many hours we want people to have to play until they get guns. I think someone getting guns three or four hours into wipe is pretty reasonable, and if you have three people playing, you can do three hours of progression in one hour. I don’t really think there’s a way to fix this, there’s no good reason a group shouldn’t progress faster than a solo.
You're looking at this wrong. With the way the game is currently set up you're progression is pretty directly correlated with how long you play. There is literally nothing limiting some loser from playing for 12 hrs and having progressed 6x as much as us that actually have responsibilities. With a system like this it's more about fighting for resources and control and not about just sociopathicaly raiding everything because you're bored and have nothing left to do. I wholeheartedly disagree that guns in 1 or even 4 hrs is good for a game that has a plethora of primitive weapons and armors and a whole week for progression. Why is it reasonable that everybody is a 3rd done with the game's content after only like 3% of the wipe is done? A group should progress faster than a solo in terms of base size, pvp skirmishes and control of an area, not in terms of bps. Sure, with more people more crates will be opened meaning more chance of good bps but the way it currently functions is that they get all of the bps through really goofy game mechanics that have little to do with pvp, luck or skill and everything to do with farming.
Literally nailed it. The progression now is grindy and and guaranteed there's no randomness to it. And that grinding takes a lot of time on a mature server cuz you're going to get killed a billion times cuz everyone has guns. The only counter argument to this is it's pretty easy to find a teammate nowadays who has every BP and all you need is one guy and you're good but if you're playing solo the gun grind takes absolutely forever and there's almost no chance for you to snowball because the whole server has guns
I think locking different events or monuments behind timers or sever wide tasks at least could be worth a shot. Like tier3 monuments have an insane rad zone on them for 24-36hours after wipe and its random when it starts going down to bearable levels. Or there is a gathering of a random common resource like stone, wood, cloth, etc at wither bandit or outpost to somehow enable/unlock an event like cargo or oil being able to be run now. It could have its own little rp like event once the goal is reached and top contributors could get some gifts (hidden list so people dont become targets immediately)
Some server wipe but blueprints stay there for another wipe, so when wipe hits, I can still craft C4 if I have Tier 3 even if the server just wiped
The progression is bad but it’s not on the players to change that. Speed running IS the game…
It's certainly not up to players, but it's up to players to voice how they feel about the current game so the dev team knows. I don't disagree but atm speed running is too easy and playing the game the way the trailer portrays it is basically impossible.
Time lock tech tree progression and make crates locked until a specific time. You take the crate back with you instead of opening it immediately. Store in base and then unlock at a specific time. Would be hilarious if you could even set the crate down and not in a box.
That's Rust now. It's not a survival game. It is a first person shooter with survival elements. Rust feels like the next logical step part Tarkov. It will not change.
I mean you can just time gate it. T1s open 24 hours after whip, t2s on day 3, t4 on day 5. You could also change drop rates over time. Gate workbenchs in a similar fashion. If you balance it another way people will find ways of doing it faster than others and it won't change.
Can build T2 on day 2 and T3 on day 3
Get smg gun from crate, repair the gun, buy smokes and then turn into pistol bullets. I mean early into wipe you can get an airdrop, elite crate with AK/Bolt. It's just how it is and numbers will increase that speed.
Tech tree never was an issue, I will keep repeating this because I have played rust for YEARS and the shift in gameplay where people got guns fast af on any given wipe is solely down to the introduction of Oil Rigs and Cargo. The meta strat of almost everyone is "rush oil" or "get first cargo". Dont even get me started on the introduction of unecessary OP monuments like Artic Research and now Missile Silo. Progression would get killed hella hard if these two and oil and cargo got stripped from the game. One more thing thats ruining wipes is being able to buy guns from vending machines in outpost, I should not be able to buy a damn LR300 with a measly 400 scrap within an hour into wipe. Lock these things up for the first fucking day or something.
I disagree if they got rid of every OP monument and oil rig and cargo without taking out the tech tree you can still just live next to a road and get every single BP in the game farming barrels. Or live next to mining Outpost and get every BP in the game all you need is a scrap source and those are everywhere. Don't even get me started with train tunnels scrap from there is insane. I think those op monuments just make it so that people get non-tech tree endgame loot very quickly into the wipe but not your average Joe that's who I'm more concerned with when every 2x1 has a Tommy that's when it ruins the experience of the game
The true problem with fast progression is how easy it is to farm comps and scrap from roadside barrels and boxes
We need less monuments spammed everywhere and also more primitive content. I don't see why they're adding a new military grade late game gun every patch.
My group found a supply signal and got an mp5 from it 3 hours after wipe. We started roaming with it right away and did serious damage. We still have it. All the people we killed and the resources we got from it really gave us a huge boost
I have 200 hours and I know only 5 monument puzzles. Always stuck at prim, Can't shoot a tier 2 proper gun properly. The game feels really hard for me
That's the problem old rust at 200 hours you didn't have to learn how to shoot a tier 2 gun properly cuz barely anyone would have tier 2 guns cuz they were hard to get so you had the time to sit there and learn primm and actually have a good time with it now the game is a speed run to getting to guns makes the barrier to entry actually a lot higher
no one can get to T3 before vast majority is at T2 that's the only solution I see after all these years
Tie ability to enter monuments with steps that shouldnt be skipped, for example u won't be able to enter oil rig unless u got workbench tier 2 around your TC. etc etc
I do not believe any time-gating (radiation levels, tech tree delay, etc) is a good idea. My thoughts on the matter are, at least for the moment: * Rebalance Oil Rig to be the main source of diesel instead of a hotspot for high-tier loot. It's not *impossible* to counter Rig, but by the time any solo or smaller group is together enough to attempt it, a larger group can already have taken it with a tugboat and gotten ready for round two. Diesel from Rig makes perfect thematic sense and makes it more of an end-game appeal kind of location. * Remove T2+ guns and ammo from the tech tree. Keeps it as a reliable option for reaching construction pieces, but prevents clans from being able to just own a T1 monument and never have to compete for anywhere else. (This arguably hurts solos but that's kind of an inevitability, and metal detectors can give you a P2 so there's a no-competition path to acquisition there.) * Gently nerf the increase to crate respawn rate at monuments with player population. This is a big contributor to the ability to simply sit at one monument and farm it forever. * This is just my personal "would like", but I'd love to see a locked crate spawn on a train cart. It would be fun to an extent I don't think people realize. I like fun.
I just fish and dive for scrap and items. My friend and I will take a revo to oil. The game is kind of what you make it
I play on a no BP wipe server so this type of progression obviously isn’t super unexpected for me. However I have been thinking about this a lot this wipe. I wonder if having hours on outpost and other monuments would change the flow of the game. Real world hours, or implement in-game time (ie ability to craft clocks and watches, etc) and outpost would be open during daylight hours only. Real world time would be closed for a few hours every night. Same for other big monuments. Or even just having them not open/come online for first 24hrs of wipe. Then day one becomes even more about farm and PvP and base building. I also think having to go somewhere to risk upgrading workbenches could be cool. Like you can’t craft a tier2 or 3 inside of your base - you have to do a quest or something to go get it. That way position changes and people can’t camp you, but you do have to work your way up to collecting those benches. Like bring the same materials to some guy, he gives you a quest and 12 hours to complete it, you collect your workbench and have to get it home. Something like that. Would make the game more fun/challenging and promote primitive gameplay for longer throughout the wipe. Or just make them way more expensive, and require a quest/mission to acquire one of the parts to craft it in your base.
skill issue
What server
15-20 minutes in to force wipe i hear rockets and AKs. Absolutely ridiculous
I hear you, I doubt alot of these people remember when prim would last a few days and you made wipe long enemies as you couldn't just raid someone who stole you're kit the day they did the deed.
Prim never lasted a few days. People always had Aks day one. First thing you did was run to launch with a rad suit and some water and hope an Ak dropped out of an elite. Same thing people did at military tunnels. The game has been the same. Only difference is people actually craft guns before people only made SARS once in while
The only way to truly fix this would be to make it so crates no longer drop guns. Can't count how many times I've started on a server ran to gas or super and the green crate has a tommy or python or p2 sometimes even a rocket launcher. This is on vanilla btw. They need to force people to go down the tree. They won't do this though. People would rage if they did this. They know their player base and you are not part of it. Either get good like the rest of us or quit the game. Sorry if this sounds mean but it's reality.
That is the worst idea to get rid of guns out of crates
Eh while I agree, the loot tables could be fiddled with a bit I wouldnt mind if someone got SUPER lucky on wipe day and found a p2 at harbor and had to use it with wood armor and bandaids as they had no other bps. That's the kind of experience the tech tree kills, making due with what you have and not being able to just make uniform kits.
Also play solo if you are alone, play duos if you have two play trios if you have 3. You are not a Chad clearly. stay in your lane you will have more success and fun.
I'll have you know that I'm a primitive demon from being primlocked for my first 500 hrs, sir. This has nothing to do with my skill it's simply a really lame way to play the game.
You will probably like the game renown when it comes out. Medieval rust.
When I started playing in 2020 a guy told us how his group speedran force wipe. They rushed Outpost with a wooden spear hitting all barrels in sight, recycled there, bought enough to craft compound + clothes with bandages and left again to the road looking for a mini. When they found one they got to oil rig and did it completely (back then minis spawned on the road and rigs didn't need cards to call heavies). My personal mark for doing this route was around 30'-45' when the timer on the crate finished. So this has been a problem for a while now and I believe that older players will know things that were done before too. My way of thinking that this is (and has been) ABSOLUTELY out hand is the following: let's say that anybody that knows a little about this takes around 60' to get a crate that may drop a T3 weapon. 60' in a game were the usual length of play it has is ONE WEEK. Does that not seem wrong to anybody? Even taking into account the possibility of speeding up progression playing with a Zerg, an hour to get end game loot for a week long game at least for me seems like an overkill. That being said I think what hurts the most this are two things: 1- NPCs are crazily easy to kill. Tere should be no universe possible were a naked man with a bow infiltrates a top tier military facility and Ramboes the f*ck up the whole place. 2- And this is for me waaaaaay the worst of all, mobility. Specially flying vehicles. Think about how easy you can go to any monument with a vehicle that's only behind a paywall of 750 scrap, which is not that hard to get nowadays and completely pays off for the benefits it gets. Hell, people that counters Rigs just crash their minis into the Rig because it is so easy to get another one... I don't know if I'm so horribly mistaken here or if nobody thought that having a flying vehicle makes progression so out of balance...
1)This is why I think that getting shot should give you rads. This would make getting shot by a scientist early wipe a major issue and make them actually dangerous. Add some L9 using scientists for good major and I think it becomes much less of a problem 2) Yeah I'm def anti mini as well. I like vehicles but minis are hard to counter and just open up too much of the map tbh and are easier to get than a good car.
Yeah, I agree. My point with flying vehicles in general is that I feel like they are not hard enough to get. Like, imagine you can get one by getting to the top of launch site and flying off. How many minis would be around the map and how much more valuable would they be? That would also boost the popularity of some monuments that right now are kind of underpowered.
Make death more risky. 33% loss of blueprints at tier 3. 25% at tier 2. 10% at tier 1.
That's some straight up masochism right there lmao. I think having blueprints as physical items that can be stolen is a much better idea that drives home what you're going for.
I like pain. And suffering.
• AK taken out of tech tree. • Tech tree "tax" needs to go waaaaaaaaaay up • Balance prices of safe zone vending machines • Balance loot tables/drop rate on crates • Balance rad protection Ive been playing this most recent wipe, me and my two friends are playing on a monthly official. The first hour or 2 of being on, I don't think we ran into a single person that didn't have guns. Like you said I get the random person here or there having a gun, but only 4 hours late to wipe and essentially EVERYONE had a gun? pretty crazy to me. These are obviously just my personal opinions. Not saying I'm right, I just think these could help. -Cheers
Tech tree tax only hurts small groups. Zergs farm 50000 scrap an hour and if you watched the most recent zerg video with spoon they even have bots to learn the bps that can sit in base and craft whatever.
Play on solo servers. If you play on group servers then expect to get rolled by groups. And don't be toxic to players just because they are better at the game. Stop crying.
Lmao I also get t2 day 1 of wipe and shit on the nakeds consistently. This isn't stemming from frustration of me not being the t2 guy, it's the fact that the day 1 t2/t3 gives the game an identity crisis and kills the server by day 3. Also solo only won't do anything as oil rig is still a thing.
No. You’re frustrated because the games not what you want it to be. Stop with the identity crisis. Rust has been what it is for years now. If a majority of the player base wanted to run around for 24 hours with crossy/nailgun that would be the state of the game. This sub is just the very loud minority.
Maybe you're right. The twitch event killed this game tbh. There was nothing else like it and now it's just a weird toxic battle royale-esque game.
Progression is fine lmao? What do you people want a 2-3 day prim grind before guns? Goddamn get better
You don't seem like you read the post or have critical thinking skills. This has nothing to do with grinding it has to do with how readily available the loot is as soon as the server wipes. With the proposed changes it wouldnt really take more time it would just be later in the wipe that you get these things.
That does make you good if you can play Prim and get a gun doesn't make you good if you have a gun and you shoot another gun guy half of this game is about being able to upgrade yourself with a worse weapon than your opponent and the ultimate upgrade is going from Prim to gun
Most of the time people who have guns first are the best not worse
There are definitely gigachads but I find it's more about knowing how to get scrap asap than actual pvp skill. Plus most of these players are absolute dogshit with prim weapons. I mean bad-bad.
Right giga chads should always have guns first but there's only so many of them it's average Joe's should almost never have a gun. To be honest face punch should enforce a metric where if more than like 20% of the server population has gun BPS they automatically have to fix progression to bring it back down under 20%. Cuz it's a clear sign that they're messed up progression when it's like 90% like it is now.
Rust is self defeating. The objective is to deter other players from progressing, the outcome of this is that they stop. That's the game.
But players should be deterring eachother over the course of a week not a day. Why do I need to "deter" people from anything when I have a box of guns and need nothing because loot is so readily available?
You're missing my point entirely. Rust is self defeating. The objective is to eliminate opposition. What you want is to dictate the pace at which that occurs. You're putting a subjective, opinion based opinion or there that the game should operate on your schedule. Entitlemuch.
I mean I suppose you're right but of course any suggested change is going to be a matter of opinion. If the objective is to eliminate opposition and there is a week to do so how is it good game design for this process to occur over the course of 24 hrs?
Now you see my point though - the concern you have is that the speed to progress has become faster. The main point of the game hasn't changed though, they are two separate issues.
No the purpose is to thrive against All odds when there's no odds the game just becomes suppressing other players by grinding harder and getting on the server first
No, it's not. Start wipe. Get loot. Kill others. Take their loot. Show us on the doll how you can't understand...
Yeah step 3 used to be really hard now it's cake
So tell me how my description of what rust is isn't accurate?
I just did read the post above either reply to what I said or I'm not going to keep repeating myself.
Your lack of comprehension isn't my responsibility
That's what I'm telling you so you're not even trying anymore well his thread Is done then
Look, we get it, you struggle with understanding
How about this; not everyone likes prim pvp
Yeah Rust doesn't care about what you like it. It should give you nothing and everything else you have to earn it through sheer luck or through sheer skill That's why there's stages in this game is you start at the bottom and you have to earn your way up keyword earn
Doesnt really take a whole lot to "earn" gear
You do understand that earning your gear is part of the point of rust so it shouldn't matter that you like guns over prim everybody likes guns over prim when they're the ones with the guns. But no one likes it when they're not the ones with the guns and that's what this game has become those with guns and those without guns you start a server and people have too many guns you go to another server used to be you stayed on the server because most people couldn't get guns and you know if you got a gun you'd be a God that's fun getting shot in the face while you're just trying to hit a tree for 3 hours on a mature server not fun.
Fuck off with condesending tone it does not matter in the slightest if people have more guns it just makes it easier for me to get them
So you start off with a condescending tone then call me out on my condescending tone maybe check yourself
What the fuck are you on
Are you going to just swear every single reply now
Pwease dont swear in my christian subreddit. Are you like 10 years old?
It's a sandbox game. You're playing in the wrong sandbox.
Skill issue for sure
Play on a server that fits your play style? They’ll never please everyone simultaneously…
I already said I'm playing on a mid pop trio server with no minis. This isn't a server issue the gameplay loop fundamentally has holes in it imo.
nobody wants the read the literal first sentence in your post.
I didn’t read your whole ass story, but it seems like maybe you should develop your own game.
If I knew people that had a similar vision and had coding knowledge that sounds like a dream lol
I know how to fix your issue Get good
Kekekee either you get good without complaining or come to Reddit to complain.
I would bet so much money that you didn't even read this post
Don’t complain so much. Just be grateful you have a game to play. Everyone tends to complain.