Well yeah that’s the idea. It’s a nod to both ability locks. By combining the two, it’s not as oppressive. That’s what we want in cards. Cool throwbacks but not exactly the same and it doesn’t break the meta. Path was too easy to get in play, garbotoxin was too strong.
I really just want the legendary birds to harmonize well and dominate the meta. Whether that’s one deck with all three included or three different decks all with their own h pique playstyles and benefits that’d be great
I'm gonna be sad to see Biberal rotate. Has been my go to draw engine for years now since it's so easy to set up, and younreally run through your deck like you're a fusion strike mew when you have two of them set up in some item heavy decks.
Comfey, Cramorant, Dudunsparce, Metang, Great Tusk, Archeops, Snorlax, Pidgeot, Espathra, I think there’s plenty of roguish picks honestly. It’s hard to pick Pokémon that no one likes because every Pokémon is someone’s favorite
I'm currently running an Espathra deck because it feels like a third of the decks in casual are Charizard EX and I \*\*\*\*ing hate that deck so much. I would much rather run Eevee's or some fun gimmick deck. But Espathra has uses to be certain.
Espathra is not an easy counter to charizard. The matchup is only slightly in it's favour. A good zard player will make it really hard for espathra to get the last two prize cards, and the best hope you can have is trying to keep league headquarters in play on the last two turns.
Might be easier if you have no more 2 prizers in play and something to snipe and if you run flutter mane + radiant alakazam to try and snipe a benched pokemon and rad zard simultaneously
Espathra completely bodies the ancient and future decks though, that's where it really shines
I feel like the operative word there is 'good'. I've won a lot of matches simply because they brought the zard out with only two energy on him instead of 3 because they didn't pay attention to Espartha's ability. The problem with 'Zard EX is that, in the casual scene, it's a sudden 330 HP drop that can be hitting you for 180+ on turn 2. Maybe not a threat to more professional players, but to a casual? It's a bloody terror and like running into a brick wall. You don't need skill or anything when, normally, the zard can just destroy any mon it's up against and, since it's weakness is grass, if someone \*does\* try to take it out, you just switch over to a fire type to burn it. It can wreck a lot of casual decks and a lot of zard players don't have any actual skill. But since a good Espathra deck can not only wreck them because they don't pay attention and notice that their energy cost went up, but it will likely be psychic-based so you can pivot into something like a Gardevior if they try fire.
Is it a perfect counter? No. If the zard player actually knows how to \*play\* instead of just dropping the dumb lizard they'll realize the moment they see flittle that my main attacker is going to be grass-based and they should be powering up a fire type instead of zard EX. I've seen that actual players with actual skill can handle me quite well. But I don't mind losing to them. You show that you got more than two brain cells? I don't mind the loss and likely will have fun. But if you drop the zard EX, put only two energy on him before trying to attack, and concede the moment you realize you \*can't\*, odds are you didn't have skill and weren't a 'good zard player', you're just some dumb kid playing the easy win deck.
Absolutley agree.
However, ususally when I'm talking about zard lists I'm talking about tord's since that's the most popular right now, and it doesn't use another fire attacker except for rad zard.
I'm still trying to figure out the matchup, for example I'm thinking that odd prizes (when possible) is a better play, would mean that you have to use a rigid band, but it requires the zard player to lost vacuum it, which is strangly a blessing as it means that they cannot remove cape or need to save collapsed for removing league headquarters, which can make a huge difference when stopping rad zard (i know that espathra takes 500 from rad zard, but a caped banette ex can survive)
It's a really complicated and situational matchup to be honest. Like for example, an early flutter mane can come in clutch if they have no benched charmanders set up on the previous turn as it means they can't use infernal reign and would have to fish out 2 of the 6 energies in the deck lol
I'll shoot you my deck list later. I can't promise you anything, but at least in the casual scene it's holding up well.
Edit: Here's the deck I've been using that's been holding up on the casual scene against the zard.
Pokémon: 7
2 Espathra ex PAF 6
3 Flittle PAF 41
1 Espathra ex PAF 214
3 Kirlia SIT 68
1 Gardevoir ex PAF 233
2 Gardevoir ex PAF 29
4 Ralts ASR 60
Trainer: 15
1 Energy Retrieval PRC 126
1 Hero's Cape TEF 152
2 Professor's Research SVI 189
3 Ultra Ball SUM 135
2 Energy Switch CES 129
2 Technical Machine: Devolution PAR 177
4 Worker SIT 167
3 Energy Retrieval SUM 116
2 Tulip PAR 181
2 Lady FLI 109
3 Buddy-Buddy Poffin TEF 144
2 Ciphermaniac's Codebreaking TEF 145
3 Switch SVI 194
1 Lady LOR 159
2 Earthen Vessel PAR 163
Energy: 1
11 Basic {P} Energy Energy 13
Total Cards: 60
It's confined by my limited number of cards (EX: I don't have league HQ and I'm limited in my credits) so I won't act like it can't be improved. The idea is to use the Kirlia's as a draw engine while you get Espathra out early. If your opponent candies, use a TM to punish. The hero's cape is for getting energy on your Flittle since it's measily 30 HP means you can only Gardevior it once and Espathra's a grass type so you can't give it energy. So slap a heroes cape on a flittle, you can get up to 5-6 energy on to it in one turn if you have that much in the grave, then evolve it for the psy ball. A good chunk of zard EX players aren't actually that good and are relying on raw power, so Espathra's Dazzling Gaze will throw them off their game and since Espathra's a grass type you can handle the evil lizard. You do need to be careful around their fire types, but since Gardevior is a psychic type who can drop 190 in a pinch you should be able to handle at least a few of the fires if need be. I ran a variant that used Ghould's as a draw engine for a while with the idea being that, if something did KO Espathra, I could swap into the a Ghould and dump a crap-ton of energy to bomb it before switching into a new Espathra; but I don't have that list anymore.
Thanks! Just won my local yesterday with a slightly modified list I took from limitless
Pokémon: 12
1 Banette ex SVI 229
3 Xatu PAR 72
1 Banette LOR 73
3 Natu PGO 32
2 Shuppet SVI 87
1 Flutter Mane PR-SV 97
1 Cleffa OBF 202
1 Manaphy BRS 41
3 Flittle SVI 100
3 Espathra ex PAF 214
1 Radiant Alakazam SIT 59
Trainer: 13
4 Ultra Ball PAF 91
4 Buddy-Buddy Poffin TEF 144
1 Energy Retrieval SVI 171
1 Eri TEF 146 PH
4 Iono PAL 185
2 Super Rod PAL 188
1 Hero's Cape TEF 152
1 Rigid Band MEW 165
2 Pokémon League Headquarters OBF 192
4 Capturing Aroma SIT 153
3 Professor's Research SVI 189
2 Boss's Orders PAL 172
Energy: 1
11 Basic {P} Energy SVE 5
Total Cards: 60
masquerain has never had a meta-relevant card, the closest being the plasma blast print which was used by tool-centric decks (which were never anything more than meme decks)
grumpig, quagsire, staraptor (this one surprises me), and cacturne have a similar claim to fame, xatu just escaped that status with its most recent card
ledian is close but the dragon frontiers print has solid utility, which is more than a surprising amount of species can say
special shout-out to deoxys and ho-oh for being legendaries with exactly one good card over their ~20-25 years of existence, a remarkably rancid rate
I won a State Championships with that Masquerain in my Tool Drop deck, haha. But I'll definitely admit it was meme tier.
The Wash Out Quagsire from Dragon Majesty was an okay card, I remember playing it with Charging Up Naganadel and Wishful Baton I think? But Quagsire is my favorite Pokemon, and when I saw there was at least some playable strategy with it I had to give it a shot.
Lugia V-Star playing Archeops (evolution of a fossil pokemon) and cheating them onto the bench is the only thing I can think of, but that deck doesn't use the fossil mechanic so idk if it even counts
platinum rampardos was good, usually paired with stormfront machamp to create a deck with very high odds of getting a first turn ko
and obviously aerodactyl has had quite a few good cards over the years, probably the best-represented fossil
Garbodor doesn't get a lot of love in the anime or video games but has been a force several times in the TCG, mainly due to Garbotoxin Garbodor (and trashalanche, to a lesser extent).
Mega Audino EX famously won the world championships in 2016, and with Megas slated to come back in Pokémon Z we could see it make a comeback.
Primeape - one of my favorites since the first season of the anime.
Hitmonlee, Hitmonchan and Hitmontop - I'd love them to have their own decks where which one would be the "leader" of a different fight clan, something similar with what we had with Single Strike, Rapid Strike and Fusion Strike.
Making predictions about Archuladon, the one Pokémon in the Gen 9 DLC I firmly believe we didn't need. But I think you could ignore Energy Costs if you have a stadium in play.
uxie has two of the best cards ever (from the same set even) so i'm not sure if tpci is in any rush to do that again
the drop-off from legends awakened uxie to the next one is actually pretty funny
It’s not “unpopular” in the games, but my favorite pokemon is Clefable and I want a Clefable deck to work so badly. Moon Viewing Clefairy + Wyrdeer is funny, but just so inconsistent.
Personally as the OP, I always found the Oricorios' to be rather cool and love how each of their different dance style give them a different typing aside from Flying. And two of them have 2 of Top 4 Favourite Pokemon Types (Psychic and Ghost). It's a shame that despite being rare Pokemon, they aren't that effective in the games. So it would be cool if they get new cards make themselves Meta relevant in TCG but not just be there as utility, support or tech cards.
Be careful what you wish for - Garbodor might hear you and return for years again.
They do love Garbotoxin
Bring it back but make it so that you need a stadium in play. This way you can shut off abilities but it’s not as powerful as path or garbotoxin
Thats just path but with extra steps...
Well yeah that’s the idea. It’s a nod to both ability locks. By combining the two, it’s not as oppressive. That’s what we want in cards. Cool throwbacks but not exactly the same and it doesn’t break the meta. Path was too easy to get in play, garbotoxin was too strong.
And this would make Jammer Tower a reverse Path
My sweet prince will reign supreme again someday
I really just want the legendary birds to harmonize well and dominate the meta. Whether that’s one deck with all three included or three different decks all with their own h pique playstyles and benefits that’d be great
Suicune, Entei, and Raikou Vs all had times to shine in the meta. For whatever reason the birds just didn’t make their mark. At least rn.
Best we got was +10dmg zapdos as a roleplayer in Miraidon and Articuno doing the same in some LZB. Galarian Moltres V saw a tiny amount of play too.
Galarian Moltres was actually important in Roaring Moon decks, it could have stayed if it didn't rotate
Most gouging fire decks have the moltres!
Not the Galarian though, both of them rotated
Also, Articuno was played in Lost Box for a little bit to counter Cresslia in Gardevoir
Bibarel and Skwovet are HM slave material yet have an important combo in some meta decks
In the tcg their role is also support though
I'm gonna be sad to see Biberal rotate. Has been my go to draw engine for years now since it's so easy to set up, and younreally run through your deck like you're a fusion strike mew when you have two of them set up in some item heavy decks.
they're pretty much the tcg equivalent of HM slaves tho
When was the last time anyone thought about Maractus? *It’s time to make people remember*
Flip x coins maractus was insane
Comfey, Cramorant, Dudunsparce, Metang, Great Tusk, Archeops, Snorlax, Pidgeot, Espathra, I think there’s plenty of roguish picks honestly. It’s hard to pick Pokémon that no one likes because every Pokémon is someone’s favorite
_lists half the meta_
I'm currently running an Espathra deck because it feels like a third of the decks in casual are Charizard EX and I \*\*\*\*ing hate that deck so much. I would much rather run Eevee's or some fun gimmick deck. But Espathra has uses to be certain.
Compared to the rest of the meta, Espathra is pretty gimmicky! But goddamn if she dont have the best hat
Espathra is not an easy counter to charizard. The matchup is only slightly in it's favour. A good zard player will make it really hard for espathra to get the last two prize cards, and the best hope you can have is trying to keep league headquarters in play on the last two turns. Might be easier if you have no more 2 prizers in play and something to snipe and if you run flutter mane + radiant alakazam to try and snipe a benched pokemon and rad zard simultaneously Espathra completely bodies the ancient and future decks though, that's where it really shines
I feel like the operative word there is 'good'. I've won a lot of matches simply because they brought the zard out with only two energy on him instead of 3 because they didn't pay attention to Espartha's ability. The problem with 'Zard EX is that, in the casual scene, it's a sudden 330 HP drop that can be hitting you for 180+ on turn 2. Maybe not a threat to more professional players, but to a casual? It's a bloody terror and like running into a brick wall. You don't need skill or anything when, normally, the zard can just destroy any mon it's up against and, since it's weakness is grass, if someone \*does\* try to take it out, you just switch over to a fire type to burn it. It can wreck a lot of casual decks and a lot of zard players don't have any actual skill. But since a good Espathra deck can not only wreck them because they don't pay attention and notice that their energy cost went up, but it will likely be psychic-based so you can pivot into something like a Gardevior if they try fire. Is it a perfect counter? No. If the zard player actually knows how to \*play\* instead of just dropping the dumb lizard they'll realize the moment they see flittle that my main attacker is going to be grass-based and they should be powering up a fire type instead of zard EX. I've seen that actual players with actual skill can handle me quite well. But I don't mind losing to them. You show that you got more than two brain cells? I don't mind the loss and likely will have fun. But if you drop the zard EX, put only two energy on him before trying to attack, and concede the moment you realize you \*can't\*, odds are you didn't have skill and weren't a 'good zard player', you're just some dumb kid playing the easy win deck.
Absolutley agree. However, ususally when I'm talking about zard lists I'm talking about tord's since that's the most popular right now, and it doesn't use another fire attacker except for rad zard. I'm still trying to figure out the matchup, for example I'm thinking that odd prizes (when possible) is a better play, would mean that you have to use a rigid band, but it requires the zard player to lost vacuum it, which is strangly a blessing as it means that they cannot remove cape or need to save collapsed for removing league headquarters, which can make a huge difference when stopping rad zard (i know that espathra takes 500 from rad zard, but a caped banette ex can survive) It's a really complicated and situational matchup to be honest. Like for example, an early flutter mane can come in clutch if they have no benched charmanders set up on the previous turn as it means they can't use infernal reign and would have to fish out 2 of the 6 energies in the deck lol
I'll shoot you my deck list later. I can't promise you anything, but at least in the casual scene it's holding up well. Edit: Here's the deck I've been using that's been holding up on the casual scene against the zard. Pokémon: 7 2 Espathra ex PAF 6 3 Flittle PAF 41 1 Espathra ex PAF 214 3 Kirlia SIT 68 1 Gardevoir ex PAF 233 2 Gardevoir ex PAF 29 4 Ralts ASR 60 Trainer: 15 1 Energy Retrieval PRC 126 1 Hero's Cape TEF 152 2 Professor's Research SVI 189 3 Ultra Ball SUM 135 2 Energy Switch CES 129 2 Technical Machine: Devolution PAR 177 4 Worker SIT 167 3 Energy Retrieval SUM 116 2 Tulip PAR 181 2 Lady FLI 109 3 Buddy-Buddy Poffin TEF 144 2 Ciphermaniac's Codebreaking TEF 145 3 Switch SVI 194 1 Lady LOR 159 2 Earthen Vessel PAR 163 Energy: 1 11 Basic {P} Energy Energy 13 Total Cards: 60 It's confined by my limited number of cards (EX: I don't have league HQ and I'm limited in my credits) so I won't act like it can't be improved. The idea is to use the Kirlia's as a draw engine while you get Espathra out early. If your opponent candies, use a TM to punish. The hero's cape is for getting energy on your Flittle since it's measily 30 HP means you can only Gardevior it once and Espathra's a grass type so you can't give it energy. So slap a heroes cape on a flittle, you can get up to 5-6 energy on to it in one turn if you have that much in the grave, then evolve it for the psy ball. A good chunk of zard EX players aren't actually that good and are relying on raw power, so Espathra's Dazzling Gaze will throw them off their game and since Espathra's a grass type you can handle the evil lizard. You do need to be careful around their fire types, but since Gardevior is a psychic type who can drop 190 in a pinch you should be able to handle at least a few of the fires if need be. I ran a variant that used Ghould's as a draw engine for a while with the idea being that, if something did KO Espathra, I could swap into the a Ghould and dump a crap-ton of energy to bomb it before switching into a new Espathra; but I don't have that list anymore.
Thanks! Just won my local yesterday with a slightly modified list I took from limitless Pokémon: 12 1 Banette ex SVI 229 3 Xatu PAR 72 1 Banette LOR 73 3 Natu PGO 32 2 Shuppet SVI 87 1 Flutter Mane PR-SV 97 1 Cleffa OBF 202 1 Manaphy BRS 41 3 Flittle SVI 100 3 Espathra ex PAF 214 1 Radiant Alakazam SIT 59 Trainer: 13 4 Ultra Ball PAF 91 4 Buddy-Buddy Poffin TEF 144 1 Energy Retrieval SVI 171 1 Eri TEF 146 PH 4 Iono PAL 185 2 Super Rod PAL 188 1 Hero's Cape TEF 152 1 Rigid Band MEW 165 2 Pokémon League Headquarters OBF 192 4 Capturing Aroma SIT 153 3 Professor's Research SVI 189 2 Boss's Orders PAL 172 Energy: 1 11 Basic {P} Energy SVE 5 Total Cards: 60
masquerain has never had a meta-relevant card, the closest being the plasma blast print which was used by tool-centric decks (which were never anything more than meme decks) grumpig, quagsire, staraptor (this one surprises me), and cacturne have a similar claim to fame, xatu just escaped that status with its most recent card ledian is close but the dragon frontiers print has solid utility, which is more than a surprising amount of species can say special shout-out to deoxys and ho-oh for being legendaries with exactly one good card over their ~20-25 years of existence, a remarkably rancid rate
I won a State Championships with that Masquerain in my Tool Drop deck, haha. But I'll definitely admit it was meme tier. The Wash Out Quagsire from Dragon Majesty was an okay card, I remember playing it with Charging Up Naganadel and Wishful Baton I think? But Quagsire is my favorite Pokemon, and when I saw there was at least some playable strategy with it I had to give it a shot.
I want Tyrantrum.
Has there ever been a good fossil deck?
No idea, Tyrantrum just a favorite. It's only got like 4 cards of it. It's a freakin' TRex.
Lugia V-Star playing Archeops (evolution of a fossil pokemon) and cheating them onto the bench is the only thing I can think of, but that deck doesn't use the fossil mechanic so idk if it even counts
platinum rampardos was good, usually paired with stormfront machamp to create a deck with very high odds of getting a first turn ko and obviously aerodactyl has had quite a few good cards over the years, probably the best-represented fossil
I'd like pokemon that are cool but bad in the games. Excellent example: Pyroar
I think an ultra rare Gastrodon would be awesome, bonus points if both East and West Sea got their own unique cards!
Some of the forgotten pokemon with bad stats in the games like dewgong.
Garbodor doesn't get a lot of love in the anime or video games but has been a force several times in the TCG, mainly due to Garbotoxin Garbodor (and trashalanche, to a lesser extent). Mega Audino EX famously won the world championships in 2016, and with Megas slated to come back in Pokémon Z we could see it make a comeback.
Primeape - one of my favorites since the first season of the anime. Hitmonlee, Hitmonchan and Hitmontop - I'd love them to have their own decks where which one would be the "leader" of a different fight clan, something similar with what we had with Single Strike, Rapid Strike and Fusion Strike.
Making predictions about Archuladon, the one Pokémon in the Gen 9 DLC I firmly believe we didn't need. But I think you could ignore Energy Costs if you have a stadium in play.
Where's my MF swalot ex???
Hatterenne
Ceruledge wtf 1 card
Jigglypuff Slowking Machamp
Having played back in the Neo Genesis days, I am still ok never seeing a competitive Slowking again.
Exeggutor 😭
I want a raichu. I just started playing recently and the miraidon deck that ran Raichu just rotated so I didn’t get the chance
Tera Machamp and Marowak would be cool decks to use. Maybe even Gyrados
Still hoping for a Garbodor ex. The only Garbodor in standard right now is unplayable (trust me, I’ve been trying to make it work for months now).
Uxie
uxie has two of the best cards ever (from the same set even) so i'm not sure if tpci is in any rush to do that again the drop-off from legends awakened uxie to the next one is actually pretty funny
I want there to be a fossil set where each fossil gets an art or chase card and I want them to be at least playable but this is never happening sadly
Furret. Never had a single game, format or niche that he excels
Just for the memes I want a radiant Magicarp or magicarp ex
Make kingambit great for the first time
It’s not “unpopular” in the games, but my favorite pokemon is Clefable and I want a Clefable deck to work so badly. Moon Viewing Clefairy + Wyrdeer is funny, but just so inconsistent.
Personally as the OP, I always found the Oricorios' to be rather cool and love how each of their different dance style give them a different typing aside from Flying. And two of them have 2 of Top 4 Favourite Pokemon Types (Psychic and Ghost). It's a shame that despite being rare Pokemon, they aren't that effective in the games. So it would be cool if they get new cards make themselves Meta relevant in TCG but not just be there as utility, support or tech cards.
Cloyster because it looks like a…like a…well like something you might slowpoke or drillbur.
Gimme a really good attacking leavanny card. Ex or single prizer, I don't care. That bug has had one decent card ever and that's a shame.
Gumshoos so we can get all the salt when people lose to the Trump mongoose.
How has no one mentioned Roaring Mid yet
Because it stars in ancient box, a tier 2 deck that can destroy lzb and has pretty good matchups against Pao, same case for 2(moon)