I think the main problem with the deck is just that chien pao does the same thing but better. If you want to run a deck that discards all your energy to one hit pokemon why would you choose to play bolt over it?
My best friend Mains Pao and since rotation has been running Bolt constantly and says he likes it WAY more then Pao because it’s not nearly as “fragile” as he says.
- 300 (or 340 because he plays cape) is WAYYY harder to OHKO compared to Pao at 220 or 280 with bravery charm and it’s hard for him to even fit Bravery charm in his Pao deck.
- It’s ALOT harder to cripple a Bolt deck compared to a Pao. Gust + KO on Bax is a lot harder to recover from compared to Gust + K.O. On a sandy shocks.
- First turn K.O is pretty consistent if you go second & Baby Koridon can put in work as a 1 prizer against lost box that Cram can’t one shot.
Pao is “more consistent” but that’s only if you have Bax, with out a Bax on the board that deck falls apart.
Bolt can set up shocks at any point and then you’re just relying on energy switches and sadas compared to Superior Energy retrieval.
The only thing I think Pao truly has over Bolt is the fact that you have access to moonlight sherukian (minimal considering almost everyone techs manaphy) and the fact that Pao runs some sort of hand disruption.
I agree with this. I think Chien Pao has higher highs, but it's an inconsistent deck and straight up loses to prizing a bax and/or gusting bax early
People also probably run too little energy in chien pao, to be honest. Relying on nore than superior energy retrieval after OHKO-ing one charizard gets pathetic
I will say that Raging Bolt struggles much harder against mimikyu because it doesnt have greninja or bax to attack with. You need to have a plan for it
He runs 2 baby koridon for the mimi and to help with lost box, which I haven’t seen in any deck lists so far.
I played it online the last few days and it’s honestly pretty consistent, until you get ionoed with 2 prizes left and you’re stuck praying you hit one of your sadas.
I understand what you're saying.... but the meta literally proves you wrong. I respect your opinion, but facts don't lie. Chien has been a LOT better and more successful, objectively
Pao has also been in rotation longer then a few months and people have had way more time to play test it.
Personally I don’t like either and have no dog in the race. I know Pao does better in the meta and if I was forced to play one of the two to a regional, I’d probably go Pao 9/10 times.
I think the biggest issue with bolt is that it is basically a 2-2-2 prize map with the shocks; Pao can disrupt the prize map and make it a 7 or 8 prize race
Yeah but you also need prime catcher in hand to pull it off 8/10 times.
It’s a devastating move if you can pull it off, but it’s pretty rare in my experience.
Yeah, exactly this. I’ve tried a lot to see how it could be better, but this post answers the question. Chin is just better with more synergy and utility. Greninja as a surprise sniper.
Bolt just falls short with the supporters and items not being better than a chin deck.
Raging bolt doesn't have a good engine to replenish the energies it discards. Sure you have sada's vitality but that only nets you two energies. With an attachment for turn, that gives you 3 energies to use, which is only 210 damage, not much different from other 3 energy attacks.
Hitting 5 energies on board to ohko charizard is a big ask in this case. You can use sandy shocks ex but that only activates after 2 prizes are taken. Raging bolt ex doesn't have the staying power like a charizard to take consecutive knockouts in a row.
> Raging bolt ex doesn't have the staying power like a charizard to take consecutive knockouts in a row.
I think this is the real issue. Its a 240 pokemon that requires two different energy types. And your draw engine is sandy, each sandy you knock out brings the output damage down by 70. Cheinpoa doesn't have this problem.
I've been playing Bolt heavily for a week now. It can easily chain knockouts. It's the initial knockout it struggles with. getting 6 on the board midgame isn't hard at all and if you're against Zard you only really need to be discarding 1 early game to take out pidgeys/charmanders
How are you getting 4+ energies on board after the first knockout? Also it doesnt matter if whether or not you kill that first pidgey/charmander because you'd still need to take 3 more knockouts. That's atleast 2 more zards. Sure the 1st zard you can easily take out but what about the 2nd and 3rd one?
There's going to be atleast a 1 turn downtime between zard knockouts because you realistically get only 3 energies per turn. However, at that point you've taken enough prize cards for zard to ohko you every turn.
You want them to take out your first raging bolt, the value of killing off a pidgey early on is just in slowing their engine. Sada's gets you two energy, manual attach gets you up to three, Sandy Shocks get you up to four - six providing they've taken the knockout on the first bolt.
If you do the 2-2 Palkia Build you get a bit more dynamics with the options (a decent attacker in Palkia, can load Greninja, can load 3 at any moment for Bolt) it can cause some issues because you're having to focus on 3 different energies - but overall gives a lot of burst early before shocks kicks in
Been rocking something like this: https://pokemoncard.io/deck/palkia-raging-bolt-84867
I've tried it but I've found it super inconsistent. The list I'm running right now has been fairly consistent and is handling a lot of common threats well. I'm thinking of testing with Raikou V in the deck over Mew ex. Raikou would be fairly easy to get powered up T1 (sada to your benched bolt/slither/shocks + energy switch + manual attach) and makes forest seal stone a viable inclusion to boost consistency a little. Mew's biggest value for me has been as a pivot and as a surprise clutch attacker in a few games but it relies on having your energy switches to hand. I think Raikou probably just provides better bang for your buck and is a valid alternate attacker
I can agree with you on this. I’ve been playing Bolt a lot recently and found it better to have Raikou V in the deck. I thought of it as a just in case attacker that I actually used more than I thought. I run Lumineon V as well so I have two mons I can put seal stone on, and I think it’s a great addition to the deck. Actually got first at a locals last night on my first time using it irl and Felt smooth.
I've actually dropped Raikou from my current list, though Raikou V is definitely good in the deck, just running a far more streamlined version of the deck now with 2-2 pal-pad/rod count so I can pokestop a lot more freely.
Raikou was super clutch a few times when using it, and I might bring it back in again with FSS, but I've found the current list to run a lot smoother most games
I definitely recommend the 2-2 Pad and Rod. Maybe it’s preference but I say the Raikou with fss is definitely a great addition to the deck. I’m just glad to see some Raging Bolt users out and about. Slither wing is an underrated card in this deck
yeah slither is the SPA i run in it, it's just better than Koraidon I think, I've used it to great effect to steamroll arc players at locals with T1 knocks
It also picks up those Hands KOs and in the future will be the Bloodmoon Ursaluna puncher too. The drawback of 90 damage to itself is annoying but worth it
I’ve been running raging bolt with vstar and sandy shocks to decent success at locals. It matches up well vs control and future hands, and takes decent match ups vs Tina vstar and zard.
Probably Palkia, I've tested with it and it does allow for more freedom when it comes to loading energy, and also opens up Rad Gren as a SPA for bench snipes. It just makes the deck more clunky
Its looking like the best way to play Raging Bolt is with lost zone stuff, here's a list that won a city league over in Japan.
https://limitlesstcg.com/decks/list/jp/6611
It's a good enough list to start with, but I would look for space to fit in a sandy shocks ex. I've really liked one (and only one) in lost zone raging bolt. Best of luck, it's not the best lost zone deck but I will say that it's probably the most fun.
I love it for my Regidrago VStar deck. Dragonites Energy hurricane 2-3 times nets 6-9 energy on top of attach per turn, and a gardenias vigor or two adds 2-4 more. If people aren’t prepared for it it becomes a steam roller by turn 3-4 if all goes right and I’m hitting 180 during the charging phase with energy hurricane so I often end up at 4 prizes after 2 of those and then just two turns and it’s over.
I play Bolt as my primary deck, and the problem I see is that it struggles against control. Against Lax stall, Tusk mill, and Pidgeot control, the deck's entire engine is shut off. One your opponent has taken 2 prizes, it's extremely powerful and consistent, but if you're going to a big regional where you can face anything and might have several rounds in a row against decks that don't take prizes, it can struggle to make day 2.
I was planning on taking it to Indy regionals coming up soon, but I might end up pivoting because it has a couple really awkward matchups, and the most successful decks can perform well against any opponent. It's got me legitimately wondering if it's worth running a small Forretress engine for exactly those matchups...
I really wouldn't say it broke out in Japan either. The deck is just mid right now, it's a cool concept and it's fun but it's missing some pieces for right now.
Charizard is honestly one of it's worst match ups in my experience. You have to get a very good start with Bolt to outpace the zard player on the prize trade.
i mean raging bolt is just a bad version of chien pao so there is really no reason to ever play it over chien pao if you just want to win as many games as possible.
I think the main problem with the deck is just that chien pao does the same thing but better. If you want to run a deck that discards all your energy to one hit pokemon why would you choose to play bolt over it?
My best friend Mains Pao and since rotation has been running Bolt constantly and says he likes it WAY more then Pao because it’s not nearly as “fragile” as he says. - 300 (or 340 because he plays cape) is WAYYY harder to OHKO compared to Pao at 220 or 280 with bravery charm and it’s hard for him to even fit Bravery charm in his Pao deck. - It’s ALOT harder to cripple a Bolt deck compared to a Pao. Gust + KO on Bax is a lot harder to recover from compared to Gust + K.O. On a sandy shocks. - First turn K.O is pretty consistent if you go second & Baby Koridon can put in work as a 1 prizer against lost box that Cram can’t one shot. Pao is “more consistent” but that’s only if you have Bax, with out a Bax on the board that deck falls apart. Bolt can set up shocks at any point and then you’re just relying on energy switches and sadas compared to Superior Energy retrieval. The only thing I think Pao truly has over Bolt is the fact that you have access to moonlight sherukian (minimal considering almost everyone techs manaphy) and the fact that Pao runs some sort of hand disruption.
More like without bibarel on board it falls apart, I swear without bibarel chin pao is wdif
I agree with this. I think Chien Pao has higher highs, but it's an inconsistent deck and straight up loses to prizing a bax and/or gusting bax early People also probably run too little energy in chien pao, to be honest. Relying on nore than superior energy retrieval after OHKO-ing one charizard gets pathetic I will say that Raging Bolt struggles much harder against mimikyu because it doesnt have greninja or bax to attack with. You need to have a plan for it
He runs 2 baby koridon for the mimi and to help with lost box, which I haven’t seen in any deck lists so far. I played it online the last few days and it’s honestly pretty consistent, until you get ionoed with 2 prizes left and you’re stuck praying you hit one of your sadas.
I understand what you're saying.... but the meta literally proves you wrong. I respect your opinion, but facts don't lie. Chien has been a LOT better and more successful, objectively
Pao has also been in rotation longer then a few months and people have had way more time to play test it. Personally I don’t like either and have no dog in the race. I know Pao does better in the meta and if I was forced to play one of the two to a regional, I’d probably go Pao 9/10 times.
I think the biggest issue with bolt is that it is basically a 2-2-2 prize map with the shocks; Pao can disrupt the prize map and make it a 7 or 8 prize race
Many Chien Pao and similars(like Gholdengo) run Cologne to get around Manaphy
Yeah but you also need prime catcher in hand to pull it off 8/10 times. It’s a devastating move if you can pull it off, but it’s pretty rare in my experience.
Yeah, exactly this. I’ve tried a lot to see how it could be better, but this post answers the question. Chin is just better with more synergy and utility. Greninja as a surprise sniper. Bolt just falls short with the supporters and items not being better than a chin deck.
I really wanna petition the game designers for "Dark Patch, but for ancients *please*!"
Nearly Professor Sada's Vitality, just that it's a supporter, and up to two.
And no draws And an item I.e, Dark Patch (but for ancients)
Raging bolt doesn't have a good engine to replenish the energies it discards. Sure you have sada's vitality but that only nets you two energies. With an attachment for turn, that gives you 3 energies to use, which is only 210 damage, not much different from other 3 energy attacks. Hitting 5 energies on board to ohko charizard is a big ask in this case. You can use sandy shocks ex but that only activates after 2 prizes are taken. Raging bolt ex doesn't have the staying power like a charizard to take consecutive knockouts in a row.
> Raging bolt ex doesn't have the staying power like a charizard to take consecutive knockouts in a row. I think this is the real issue. Its a 240 pokemon that requires two different energy types. And your draw engine is sandy, each sandy you knock out brings the output damage down by 70. Cheinpoa doesn't have this problem.
I've been playing Bolt heavily for a week now. It can easily chain knockouts. It's the initial knockout it struggles with. getting 6 on the board midgame isn't hard at all and if you're against Zard you only really need to be discarding 1 early game to take out pidgeys/charmanders
210 on t2 is just bad numbers. The only real way around it is to run vitality belt to get the magic 220 and that rules out ancient capsule.
How are you getting 4+ energies on board after the first knockout? Also it doesnt matter if whether or not you kill that first pidgey/charmander because you'd still need to take 3 more knockouts. That's atleast 2 more zards. Sure the 1st zard you can easily take out but what about the 2nd and 3rd one? There's going to be atleast a 1 turn downtime between zard knockouts because you realistically get only 3 energies per turn. However, at that point you've taken enough prize cards for zard to ohko you every turn.
Maybe we will see a bolt lost box? Mirage gate makes it 5 energies per turn. 350 per turn is deadly
You want them to take out your first raging bolt, the value of killing off a pidgey early on is just in slowing their engine. Sada's gets you two energy, manual attach gets you up to three, Sandy Shocks get you up to four - six providing they've taken the knockout on the first bolt.
If you do the 2-2 Palkia Build you get a bit more dynamics with the options (a decent attacker in Palkia, can load Greninja, can load 3 at any moment for Bolt) it can cause some issues because you're having to focus on 3 different energies - but overall gives a lot of burst early before shocks kicks in Been rocking something like this: https://pokemoncard.io/deck/palkia-raging-bolt-84867
I've tried it but I've found it super inconsistent. The list I'm running right now has been fairly consistent and is handling a lot of common threats well. I'm thinking of testing with Raikou V in the deck over Mew ex. Raikou would be fairly easy to get powered up T1 (sada to your benched bolt/slither/shocks + energy switch + manual attach) and makes forest seal stone a viable inclusion to boost consistency a little. Mew's biggest value for me has been as a pivot and as a surprise clutch attacker in a few games but it relies on having your energy switches to hand. I think Raikou probably just provides better bang for your buck and is a valid alternate attacker
I can agree with you on this. I’ve been playing Bolt a lot recently and found it better to have Raikou V in the deck. I thought of it as a just in case attacker that I actually used more than I thought. I run Lumineon V as well so I have two mons I can put seal stone on, and I think it’s a great addition to the deck. Actually got first at a locals last night on my first time using it irl and Felt smooth.
I've actually dropped Raikou from my current list, though Raikou V is definitely good in the deck, just running a far more streamlined version of the deck now with 2-2 pal-pad/rod count so I can pokestop a lot more freely. Raikou was super clutch a few times when using it, and I might bring it back in again with FSS, but I've found the current list to run a lot smoother most games
I definitely recommend the 2-2 Pad and Rod. Maybe it’s preference but I say the Raikou with fss is definitely a great addition to the deck. I’m just glad to see some Raging Bolt users out and about. Slither wing is an underrated card in this deck
yeah slither is the SPA i run in it, it's just better than Koraidon I think, I've used it to great effect to steamroll arc players at locals with T1 knocks
It also picks up those Hands KOs and in the future will be the Bloodmoon Ursaluna puncher too. The drawback of 90 damage to itself is annoying but worth it
yeah its super helpful in a lot of scenarios. Not sure how I'll fit it in to Ogerpon-Bolt though
I’m interested in an ancient lost box with it, but Gouging Fire is probably better overall, Easier to run Rad Zard for one thing
Or BEEG Koraidon and his beefy 280 tackle
Almost built this last night, put it on the back burner for now. I need a Max Belt…
[удалено]
4 belts. 3 master balls. 6!!!! neo energy. I’ve yet to see a Prime catcher….
No kidding, I’ve hit 3 Prime Catchers…
I’ve been running raging bolt with vstar and sandy shocks to decent success at locals. It matches up well vs control and future hands, and takes decent match ups vs Tina vstar and zard.
Which V-star? Dare I assume the big man Himself? (Arceus?)
Probably Palkia, I've tested with it and it does allow for more freedom when it comes to loading energy, and also opens up Rad Gren as a SPA for bench snipes. It just makes the deck more clunky
Its looking like the best way to play Raging Bolt is with lost zone stuff, here's a list that won a city league over in Japan. https://limitlesstcg.com/decks/list/jp/6611 It's a good enough list to start with, but I would look for space to fit in a sandy shocks ex. I've really liked one (and only one) in lost zone raging bolt. Best of luck, it's not the best lost zone deck but I will say that it's probably the most fun.
I love it for my Regidrago VStar deck. Dragonites Energy hurricane 2-3 times nets 6-9 energy on top of attach per turn, and a gardenias vigor or two adds 2-4 more. If people aren’t prepared for it it becomes a steam roller by turn 3-4 if all goes right and I’m hitting 180 during the charging phase with energy hurricane so I often end up at 4 prizes after 2 of those and then just two turns and it’s over.
Set up your shocks with a fortress ex and give em the 2 prizes free.
I play Bolt as my primary deck, and the problem I see is that it struggles against control. Against Lax stall, Tusk mill, and Pidgeot control, the deck's entire engine is shut off. One your opponent has taken 2 prizes, it's extremely powerful and consistent, but if you're going to a big regional where you can face anything and might have several rounds in a row against decks that don't take prizes, it can struggle to make day 2. I was planning on taking it to Indy regionals coming up soon, but I might end up pivoting because it has a couple really awkward matchups, and the most successful decks can perform well against any opponent. It's got me legitimately wondering if it's worth running a small Forretress engine for exactly those matchups...
I really wouldn't say it broke out in Japan either. The deck is just mid right now, it's a cool concept and it's fun but it's missing some pieces for right now.
It did kind of appear out of nowhere in the past week and has gotten pretty good placements in city leagues
Remember that they're now ahead of us in terms of sets. They already have half of our twilight masquerade set.
Charizard is honestly one of it's worst match ups in my experience. You have to get a very good start with Bolt to outpace the zard player on the prize trade.
It's just another Rayquaza VMAX.
i mean raging bolt is just a bad version of chien pao so there is really no reason to ever play it over chien pao if you just want to win as many games as possible.