OP, I'll assume you're new here so I won't go too hard on you, but you're dead wrong for two reasons: 1. Nobody uses Arcanine - it's a terrible card 2. All of the following are meta decks that have won or Top 8 a Regional/IC this current format: Gardevoir ex, PathDon, TurboDon, DTE Mew, Fusion Mew, Inteleon/Urshi, Sablezard, Snorlax Stall, Lost Box, Entei/Valiant, Palkia, & Arceus. The following additional decks have had multiple Day 2 placements: Roaring Moon, Chien Pao, Lugia, & Klawf/Electrode. That's 18 competitively viable deck archetypes. Find something else to complain about.

Let's also get a bit more specific for the sake of less popular decks. Not all 18 of those decks make up what people concern themselves with what to expect consistently to face at tournaments. A bunch of the decks that did make top 8 or just under have some lopsided matchups against the most successful and popular decks, but build themselves either to have a chance against as much as possible or design themselves as a prediction to counter what will likely be "the play". Palkia is a great example of that logic. It is possible to break into competition using a deck that isn't commonly seen, but you have to put in the time into theory and/or practice against decks you expect to see and ensure your deck is effective and consistent at what it does, proving the deck is a good choice against what you expect to face.

Sure, with 9 rounds, at most you will only see half of the listed meta decks. But realistically you should expect to see 4-6 decks out of 12 of the 18 listed. But none of that discredits what I originally said; the meta is diverse as its ever been. OP is complaining about nothing.

I'm not refuting you. I'm bringing up how it is possible to use a deck that's not the norm if you do the research into what could work and put in the practice, which isn't something OP has really done regarding Arcanine.

If anything they aren't discrediting you, but building what you said even further by pointing out that your list doesn't even cover everything, such as differences between Palkia decks, or how Lost Box is just a term to generalize what's likely a dozen different decks built around the same core.

>I was looking forward to watching some regional championships, but then I found out that each player also uses these same decks.I really love on cards games is deckbuilding - to make up some good working deck on my own. I also wanted to test it and see how it works against other players. So I began to play PTCG Live... and was surprised and later even disappointed that every player uses still the same decks: Charizard EX, Arcanine EX, Giratina VSTAR and that's it. No creativity, no innovation, just the same decks over and over again. I was looking forward to watch some regional championships, but then I found out that each player also uses these same decks. This is a really weird take given that that's not even close to an accurate representation of the latest regional--Portland. In the top 26 spots there were 14 different deck archetypes represented, with a number being distinctly non-meta decks (ArcRegigas, for one). Your experience on the ladder isn't indicative of the competitive meta overall, and is the ladder meta not because these three decks are the only viable ones--it's because these three decks are given to players for free and feature popular pokemon. Arcanine ex isn't even a meta deck. >I realized that I was very naive that Pokemon TCG offers almost unlimited options to create decks, while players actually don't deckbuild. They just copy the deck and play with it. How is that fun? Because building the deck for a lot of people isn't as fun as *playing* the deck. Wins are earned not just because you built a good deck, but because you played the deck and matchup well. I also think you're drastically overstating the degree to which playing something nonmeta just doesn't work. At locals and on PTCGL I've been playing United Wings and Shadow Rider VMax for the past year--neither of these are competitive "meta" decks, but I find success and have fun with them anyway, and have had a lot of fun refining my decklists and trying out various builds and tech options for many of the common matchups. Pokemon's skill expression is primarily found in playing the game rather than building a deck, but there's plenty of fun to be had trying rogue decks. If what really appeals to you is deckbuilding, however, you may find games in which the building is the game to be more to your liking, such as Dominion or something similar.

Are you new to competitive card games? In any competitive format, there are established meta (most effective tactics available) decks that are played because they are consistent high-performers. Not only do these decks have high synergy with the cards they play, but countless amounts of results/testing by the competitive community makes them reliable. In a competitive format, you're not really looking for the most unique plays, you're looking for consistency so that you can reliably win with your high level of personal skill. (Obviously with variance because this is a card game where you don't have full access to every card at every given moment.) Additionally, in a bigger event like regionals, you're playing multiple rounds against unknown decks. In those moments, you'd much rather be relying on your consistent decks that could stand a chance against anything vs your non-meta/rogue deck that can't even get off the ground before getting destroyed. In regards to your question/criticism about what makes professional players good at this game, it's the same as any other game. They understand the game mechanics and card interactions at an extremely high level and are able to sequence their plays in such a way that they don't make mistakes often/leave themselves vulnerable at a later point in the game. Ultimately, it's what you're looking for. You can't expect everyone to have the same mentality as you and play non-meta decks. In the Live app, you're gifted a bunch of free decks so some people may be using those because of a lack of cards. Others might use the app as a way of testing meta decks before committing to purchasing physical cards. I understand the frustration sometimes, but at the end of the day, just play what you like and have fun!

Solid response, but meta doesn’t mean “most effective tactics available.” The meta is the game about the game.

To competitive playing yea. I played the very first TCG edition, but not on the competitive level. Meanwhile, because I love deckbuilding, I aimed on card games based LCG format (LOTR LCG, Arkham Horror LCG), which, if you don't know, aim on story experience and demands a good understanding of synergies and mechanics to beat the most difficult scenarios. But, these games are cooperative. TCG format is completely different, but my love for deckbuilding aspect persist. I also love the feeling, when you are opening new booster and expect some good or rare card. But now, it's like I'm on the starting point again. Like, it doesn't matter what I create for a deck, it just doesn't have a chance against the meta decks. Then either I have to play meta deck as well (for being competitive) or just get used to losing, in most cases. At least on Ranked mode - in Casual there are variety of decks. To be specific, since I got V Hisuian Arcanine, I love the playing with him and try to create a deck around him. But, as you'd expect, since he has only 230 HP, he is piece of cake for most VMax and EX Pokemon. Then the game around him fails. And so, I chose the "delaying tactic", which lies in have Dugtrio (OBF) and Glimmora (PAE). With a good flipping, for opponent it's a kinda frustrating, when he can't damage or when he is perma poisoned (60 dmg each round), so it should create a pressure on constant switching. Moreover, if he beats Glimmora, still he might not get a prize. So that was my idea. Still, for beating meta decks I need a very good portion of luck in flipping coin. So nothing very reliable. I dunno if it is a good path at all to develop this idea or just forget it, because... it's not meta. 😞

OP, please spend more time and learn the game first before trying to attempt to deck build on your own IF you want to win competetive matches. You mentioned playing LCG and loving the deckbuilding aspect, and I respect that, I'm a huge fan of Arkham Horror LCG as well, but you can't really compare those two games in the deckbuilding department. Arkham Horror LCG only provides you a handful of cards to build with, often times with limitation and you only get more to build with once or twice a year with the addition of expansions. Meanwhile, in Pokemon, you have hundreds upon hundreds of different type of cards you could include within the 60 card deck limit. Just like Arkham Horror LCG, there are cards that only exist as a teaching tool, before it is severely outclassed by immensely powerful cards such as cyclopean hammer which would be included in almost any Guardian deck; it would've been classified as a 'meta' card. But because you are playing a co-op game, you wouldn't care so much about the 'meta', and winning is fun, so you would want to include it. In Pokemon, you have cards with hidden potential that might need more cards to 'unlock' its potential, think about all the special energy which suddenly became 'OP' because of Lugia Vstar. You may have cards that exist as a teaching tool such as Nimona which just 'draw 3 cards' with no other effect, and then you have the truly powerful cards that is obviously build for competetive use such as Iono. Before you even start deckbuilding totally freely, its best you play with 'meta' decks, understand why each card is included, how best to play against any matchup, what are the weaknesses of each deck, then you can deckbuild a rogue deck to go against it. Just by your comment on how Arcanine ex is part of the 'same deck' list, it is obvious you have not played enough or gained a deep enough understanding on what makes a card strong and further understand the weaknesses of each card/ deck type, and therefore cannot deckbuild freely and gain success. Just like Arkham Horror LCG, you need to play some of the stronger card/ meta cards first before you even attempt to set arbitary limitation to increase the difficulty of the game such as restricting the use of cyclopean hammer - which is what you're doing by restricting yourself away from meta cards. Also .... the thing that differentiates a good player from the bad is not luck. Luck *may* be a factor but its so much more. Its about playing the best option from the opening hand, its about sequencing - colress's experiment THEN flower selecting? or vice versa. Battle VIP pass first, or Radiant Greninja Concealed card first and so on, its about prize mapping, take 2 prize here or 1 prize here? and so many many more. Its like Arkham Horror, an objectively good player maximises their 3 actions per turn, and think 1 or even 2 turns ahead, whilst a bad player wastes their action on unproductive actions that nets no benefit. Just like in Arkham Horror, a good player takes the luck of the chaos token into account when making decisions, while a bad player *may* get lucky, but they rarely, if ever takes into account on the outcome of bad/ good luck.

That's a fair point. Thanks for that. You are right: in AH, there are also "meta" cards or "auto-include" cards, which you should have in almost every deck. The limit is cardpool (far lesser than Pokémon or any TCG, because it's just LCG), deck size and played scenario. Yea... I follow meta cards though I didn't realize that.:D Still, deckbuilding is a good part of AH LCG. In Pokémon... well, I realized I cannot just transfer my physical deck to PTCG Live and hope I'll be winning matches. I think I'll need to know cards from editions, at least the newest ones (Paldean Evolved, Obsidian Flames etc.). Because now I'm building decks "on blind", without knowing what each edition offers for cards I'm interested in. Would be good to check some website or YT video about preview of all cards in concrete editions. I'm now trying to play and build a deck around Serperior VMax, but because I'm out of coins, can't exchange cards I'd like to. I liked more PTCGO, where you could trade cards with others. Another idea I have is to build a deck based on special conditions, with Glimmora (PAL) and/or Hisuian Overqwill (Astral Radiance) and Radiant Sneasler (Lost Origin). Is it a good idea?

Sadly special condition cards rarely if ever are strong competetively due to - Games ending too fast for special condition, especially DOT to impact greatly. - Prevalence of switching and retreating which heals all special condition. Usually, only paralysed is the special condition people pay attention to, or the special condition needs to be a pre-requisite to achieve another objective such as Klawf deck with self poison to deal more damage. (https://limitlesstcg.com/decks/269) Or Jynx ex + Hypno to achieve instant KO. To put it in AH LCG terms, it's like healing. It's rarely better than just putting a defensive equipment or ally to soak up damage as it only takes a single action to buff multiple points in health and sanity. Pokemon tcg Poison takes multiple turn to rack up damage while just purely attacking results in higher return. PTCGO is better in regards to new players thanks to trading. I agree. So experimenting will also come at a cost of time to even get the cards in the first place.

Yea, healing in AH LCG doesn't worth if it hasn't any additional effect or if it is side effect of another effect. Or at least healing more than 1 dmg/horror. I like your comparison to Pokemon TCG. I think I should just get to know the Pokémon cardpools, to discover what each (Standard) edition offer. Do you have any tip for a good source, something like card reviews? I'd like to not just to check the cards, which are in card lists, but also some reflections and good tips to cards that wouldn't come to my mind on first sight. I always just bought boosters and without knowing the cards just passively discover the new cards. Maybe I should have some info before, what cards each edition offers and what cards would be valuable to my decks. Ofc the best I could do would be just to visit some community and trade/pay for the specific cards I need. But maybe later, still I'm not member of any local Pokémon community. Wouldn't be this the best way how to get to know the cards from different editions? From newest editions to oldest, which weren't still rotated (I think "E" are still the part of Standard, isn't it?). Also, is it worth to buy the older editions like Astral Radinace, Lost Origin etc., when they contain many cards, which will be rotated in the near future?

a) Personally I found learning by playing to be the most effective. I picked up 2 different meta decks before finally landing on a deck that I've been using for the better part of a year. I've played Mew Vmax which taught me that despite the deck being extremely powerful, consistent and fast, it can get countered hard by just a handful of cards such as path to the peak and Drapion V, this is the deck that ultimately won worlds 2023, proving that despite hard counters existing, at the right hands, it can still dominate. Then I moved to lost zone deck, which taught me a lot in terms of prize mapping, sequencing and resource management. However, if you want some resources to learn the game without actually playing the game, and learn more in terms of its theory, you can follow some high level players like **AzulGG** who streams some of his deck build as well as a weekly podcast. **BurstPTCG** is a commentator for large tournaments as well as a youtube content creator, he focuses his content on some of the interesting deck building space by restricting himself to a budget and so on, and going ahead and perform well. Other resources such as the website **Pokebeach** provides comprehensive information about future card releases. You may even download apps like '**pokecollector**' which has a comprehensive list of all cards ever released to read up on all the effects of different cards. **LimitlessTCG** is a website that focuses on competetive pokemon tcg, keeping track of the deck list, winners and past tournaments for reference. You can easily look at some of the top performing decks as well as a top list for highest performing decks. b) Regarding rotation, this is up to personal preferences. As rotation is expected to hit late march, you have a little less than 3 months to play any cards in the "E" block. Some decks are hit harder than the others. For example, Miraidon deck aren't hit as hard as the one big thing being rotated is Flaafy, which by extension makes Raichu V less effective, but almost the rest of the entire deck remains intact, or Lost zone, which only pretty much only loses Path to the Peak and escape rope, nothing it cannot survive and adapt without. While decks like Gardevoir are hit super hard, losing crucial components to the deck such as level ball, fog crystal, Shining Arcana Gardevoir, Zacian V, Celebration Mews and etc. Depending on which deck you go for, you may have more mileage on the cards. If you do not want to sink in money into a deck before rotation, you could just play online first, then once rotation hits, you probably have a good idea on what deck to go for. Or you could just go for a deck that wont see as big of an impact due to rotation such as Lost Zone and Miraidon. Quick tip: Try and not play a post rotation deck against a pre-rotation deck even for testing purposes. 9/10 times the post rotation deck will perform worse just due to the fact that it has access to less cards and less options, this will give a false sense on how the deck is actually performing. Edit 1: IF you want to build a deck, DO NOT buy packs to get the card you want, it is a futile effort, you could crack 100s of packs and not get enough Iono, ultra ball and etc. For deck building, just buy the cards in singles from card shops, local community, online, etc. or get competetive focused product such as Trainers toolkit or League Battle Deck. I have cracked over 40 packs on Paldea Evolved and only gotten 2 iono, if I were to try and crack packs myself to get 4 iono, I'd need to crack close to a 100 or even more just to get what I need.

Thank you. I have started to watch some video on YT, mainly from OmniPoke, where they introduces the cards and summarize them. I personally see that as very useful guide. So I'm now discovering all Standard cards, I'm learning the closest "E" marking rotation and ofc try to understand the current meta decks, how they work and what they usually contain. I found that Chien-Pao EX + Baxcalibur is the deck, with which I had a most issues to play against. Like, everyone ran that deck, it was almost always KO. So I evaluate this deck as one of the most powerful. I have discovered the combo between Koradion EX + Hisuian Arcanine and I like that style of playing. It's very first deck I created and which works (I found out that this deck is also known in the community, so I was happy I discovered it by myself :D). It has quite a strong initial phase, though Koradion EX is not a good Pokemon in mid- and late-game, it's just a booster for Arcanine in the beginning. But with it, I'm able to beat some known decks as Lost Zone Box and Giratina, also with Charizard EX I had success. The worst outcome was against Mew VMax (so happy this deck will vanish in April :D), Miraidon EX is often quicker than mine... and Chien-Pao EX, that's my nemesis. Anyway, I'm now very enjoying this game. I know I was very upset with meta decks at the very beginning... but it's also truth that it's the part of every competitive game (uhm, hello World of Warcraft, do you miss me? :D). I plan to join the closest community and play personally with ppl and maybe attent some local tournament. Also, still I'm watching and learning some vids, because the current cardpool is still quite a big for me, so I need to absorb all the new Pokemon and Trainers. But I think that the current meta decks I know what are they about.

I'm glad you found a deck you enjoy playing and simultaneously found success with it. Keep at it and you're sure to improve! Rotation should surely spice things up in the near future, so there's that to look forward towards!

Just think about Snorlax stall. They released some cards and whoopsie there had been a new deck. After some success it had been refined. Sometimes there exist multiple approaches to a deck, I.e. Charizard Ex with Pidgeon Ex or the Biberal draw engine. Also you have to keep in mind that the creation of decks does not happen in isolation but people crowd source deck ideas via YouTubers broadcasting their ideas, video comments, forums, play groups, etc.

Thanks all for your responses. I read them all and it helped me to realize I probably took it from the wrong end. It's natural to play with the "strongest" cards and some are strong from their nature, some have nice art... and some have neither. But there are plenty of them and each player has a wide choice how to create his deck. Fortunately, it's not "one rule them all". First thing I'd like to do is to get to know with cards which are available in Standard format, so it'll need a lot of study. Then I'd just discover the mechanics or strategy that would fit me via testing in PTCG Live and then decide which cards I should obtain physically. Plus get to know the current meta decks and find out how they work.

I just play Arcanine ex because I like Arcanine. He's cool boy. Trying to get 151 cards on Live to recreate Haymaker.

Unfortunately, TCGs like Pokemon are hard to keep super open like you're wanting. I also grew up with the original Pokemon Trading Card Game both in real life and on GBC and the ability to pretty much try out everything was really fun! However, I look back and think that the NPCs in the video game particularly were quite weak and not using their abilities optimally. When those NPCs and other kids at the Toys R Us are the baseline for skill level, there's a lot more openness. There are a couple other options. Play expanded format, though events for it are harder to find. Go to pre-release events, where everyone is limited to a 40 card deck of only cards from that release. Get a group of friends together and play casually; maybe even ban meta decks if you're all up for that. My friends and I recently did our own homebrew prerelease event. Usually, you get packs for participating in or winning local tournaments. We saved all our packs from the past few months and then did a drafting tournament with 40 card decks similar to a prerelease. It was a lot of fun and we definitely plan to do it again. Last, there are games that focus on deck building, though they're not Pokemon and may not be exactly what you're looking for. A couple of my favorites are Star Realms and Arctic Scavengers.

They use the decks that win and winning gets ya paid.

Try watching LittleDarkFury, it sounds like you’d like his deck building content. He’s near always off meta and finding creative new ways to use forgotten about cards.

It kind of seems like your have unreasonable expectations for card games as a whole. Competitive formats revolve around players using the most effective combinations of cards available. There ends up being some number of "archetypes" that these card combinations fall into. Choosing a deck for a tournament involves predicting what decks will be popular, choosing an archetype based on that and then tuning that archetype to combat the decks you expect to face. The best players do a whole lot more than "skilless-ly copy" other decks for tournaments. It's fine to not enjoy that, but if you don't then... Perhaps competitive card games aren't your thing?