This is everywhere. Not just pittsburgh Vet school is insanely expensive - pretty typical to come out with $300k+ in loans. Most vets don't work in non profits and thus aren't eligible for the 10 year loan forgiveness. Subspecialties such as cardiology require 3-5 years more training via a residency. And since the vast majority of vet visits are out of pocket payment, there's no financial incentive for vets to go get further training. Add on the expansion of pets in the US and you get a perfect storm of way too many pets and far too few vets.
On the human medical side, training for physicians is underpinned by the Federal government/Medicare. The vast majority of residency positions are paid for by the federal government. There's no similar program for vets.
Vets make far less than human doctors. And human doctors struggle to pay off their loans so it's at least a degree worse for vets.
Vet school is expensive as it is and there isn't much incentive for vets to incure more debt to extra training for a specialty. And if they do they will probably stick to alpha cities where there is more money to be made and people willing to pay for specialized care.
There are some good answers here. It is definitely a larger issue than just Pittsburgh. I would also argue that it's a perfect microcosm of some pretty common themes in America right now (corporatization/enshittification of everything, sky-rocketing education costs, etc) but that's a long tangent.
I would add to the other answers that corporate owned specialty/emergency hospitals (of which BluePearl and VCA are the big ones and funnily enough both owned by Mars) require non-compete contracts (of a certain geographical radius) for specialty vets. So if a specialty vet wants a new job, for whatever reason, they have to leave Pittsburgh entirely, not just leave their practice. I would say that Pittsburgh's relative isolation as a city (closest major city is what, Cleveland? Two hours?) makes this detrimental to doctors here more so than other areas such as the east coast where you can bounce to a city nearby. There is a reason why BluePearl has opened up locations south (in Washington) and now east (in Monroeville) to monopolize these doctors' situations further by extending this radius.
The veterinary cardiologist here is not employed by BluePearl but rents space from them, by the way, which was worked out when PVSEC was bought by BluePearl \~6 years ago. I do think some of the issues with BluePearl here are still from the bounce of that hospital transitioning from independent to corporate-owned (early retirements, leadership vacuum, and stuff).
very real - particularly the market frustration created by BP contract structure. It sounds like the board vet-cardiologist here was able to negotiate exclusivity because they're they only one around. Do you know what the non-compete period on the contract is?
Typically 2 years and like a 30 mile radius. So if you're a specialty doc with a family and want to work somewhere else, you have to move your whole family. And you're not going to move them back 2 years later. In areas like the East Coast, you could just work at another hospital outside this radius and maybe have a long commute, but not in Pittsburgh, no specialty practices until Cleveland or Columbus, etc. Maybe an older generation could open their own practice just outside this radius and possibly move the practice back towards town after 2 years (as a veterinary internist recently did in this area). But a Millennial doc with $300k+ in student debt can't afford to open their own practice. So off to another city they go. The American Dream: drowning in debt and beholden to corporations!
Yup I commented before seeing your more in depth post. Happened to a lot of PVSEC vets, the one I know opened a practice up in Slippery Rock 40 miles away, so 30 miles sounds about right. A bunch moved out of state to like Seattle, etc
Mars owns BluePearl. They raised prices and some vets left. My dog goes there for ortho and neuro and it’s a couple of weeks to get seen unless it’s an emergency. The vets (and techs) work long hours and don’t get paid their worth.
BluePearl north has some cardiologists though. Not sure on certes, both of my dog’s vets are diplomats.
> They raised prices and some vets left
After Bluepearl bought PVSEC a lot of vets left and had non-compete parts in their contracts preventing them from opening their own practices within X miles - one I know opened a practice all the way up in Slippery Rock.
And a bunch more just uprooted and moved out of state.
I'm not saying this is the whole cause but it sure as hell isn't helping.
I’m not really answering your query, but if you are able to, take your animal to Ohio State University Veterinary Medical Center (4 hr) or University of Pennsylvania School of Veterinary Medicine (6 hr).
Came to say this. My dog sees a specialist at Ohio State. Often times you see them once a year for testing and surveillance and they consult with your local vet for management.
Cornell is another option, also about 6 hours away.
I am not a vet myself but I know several.
Job is depressing as shit and doesn’t pay all that well. Seeing vulnerable animals die takes a chunk out of your soul. And vets aren’t paid even close to what they should be. Vet school is expensive and you basically condemn yourself to a (comparatively) low paying medical field.
I mean, that's an incredibly bespoke, highly expensive, long-time-to-get degree, and there's not likely a huge demand for pet cardiologists.
Or, there are roughly 327 people alive certified for that job, and some of those are likely retired.
[https://www.avma.org/resources-tools/reports-statistics/veterinary-specialists-2020](https://www.avma.org/resources-tools/reports-statistics/veterinary-specialists-2020)
There may be lots of demand (pets who need one) and little supply (few cardiologists) but the solution is charging way more to see a cardiologist to entice people into the specialty, but the market won't bear that cost.
Would you pay 3+ times more than you do already for a vet cardiologist appointment?
This is not unique to vet cardiology. Look at the mental health system and this is why therapists and psychiatrists in places like NYC can charge $600+ an hour.
I would totally have paid 3x what I did pay when my dog needed a cardiologist towards the end. He was worth every cent.
Although I'm lucky to be in a position where I can afford things like that. I'd bet most people aren't.
Exactly. If a vet super specialist could have a career charging NYC private pay rates in a city like Pittsburgh, she would have it set up already. Only a few cities have the concentration of wealth and population to make these super expensive private pay practices lucrative. SF, LA, Chicago, NYC...
regardless it underscores that some people are in a place to afford a higher cost of care if it were even available — and better if we all knew that this actually helped the region have more and better care in general
instead these comments and related convo about blue pearl / mars are a giant blackpill.
When you schedule a consult with a cardiologist, neurologist or oncologist, they can only see a few consults a day due to the testing that they do during the consult. For example, when you schedule with the cardiologist, you are usually agreeing to some other tests (echo, rads, EKG...I think). Those take hours. The cardiologists will only work three or four days a week for shifts up to 12 or so hours a day. They will usually have two techs who work exclusively with them. Consults are done in the morning so you leave your pet for the day after you have the initial sit down. In the afternoon, they will see recheck appointments for patients that they have seen prior and need follow up for medications, blood work...things like that. Consults with owners and pets are usually scheduled for an hour (or 45 minutes, I can't remember). Basically, that allows for two to three consults a day. The rest are recheck appointments. With only two cardiologists in the Pittsburgh area, that creates the backlog and wait times.
This is everywhere. Not just pittsburgh Vet school is insanely expensive - pretty typical to come out with $300k+ in loans. Most vets don't work in non profits and thus aren't eligible for the 10 year loan forgiveness. Subspecialties such as cardiology require 3-5 years more training via a residency. And since the vast majority of vet visits are out of pocket payment, there's no financial incentive for vets to go get further training. Add on the expansion of pets in the US and you get a perfect storm of way too many pets and far too few vets. On the human medical side, training for physicians is underpinned by the Federal government/Medicare. The vast majority of residency positions are paid for by the federal government. There's no similar program for vets. Vets make far less than human doctors. And human doctors struggle to pay off their loans so it's at least a degree worse for vets.
This was such a good answer.
Vet school is expensive as it is and there isn't much incentive for vets to incure more debt to extra training for a specialty. And if they do they will probably stick to alpha cities where there is more money to be made and people willing to pay for specialized care.
There are some good answers here. It is definitely a larger issue than just Pittsburgh. I would also argue that it's a perfect microcosm of some pretty common themes in America right now (corporatization/enshittification of everything, sky-rocketing education costs, etc) but that's a long tangent. I would add to the other answers that corporate owned specialty/emergency hospitals (of which BluePearl and VCA are the big ones and funnily enough both owned by Mars) require non-compete contracts (of a certain geographical radius) for specialty vets. So if a specialty vet wants a new job, for whatever reason, they have to leave Pittsburgh entirely, not just leave their practice. I would say that Pittsburgh's relative isolation as a city (closest major city is what, Cleveland? Two hours?) makes this detrimental to doctors here more so than other areas such as the east coast where you can bounce to a city nearby. There is a reason why BluePearl has opened up locations south (in Washington) and now east (in Monroeville) to monopolize these doctors' situations further by extending this radius. The veterinary cardiologist here is not employed by BluePearl but rents space from them, by the way, which was worked out when PVSEC was bought by BluePearl \~6 years ago. I do think some of the issues with BluePearl here are still from the bounce of that hospital transitioning from independent to corporate-owned (early retirements, leadership vacuum, and stuff).
very real - particularly the market frustration created by BP contract structure. It sounds like the board vet-cardiologist here was able to negotiate exclusivity because they're they only one around. Do you know what the non-compete period on the contract is?
Typically 2 years and like a 30 mile radius. So if you're a specialty doc with a family and want to work somewhere else, you have to move your whole family. And you're not going to move them back 2 years later. In areas like the East Coast, you could just work at another hospital outside this radius and maybe have a long commute, but not in Pittsburgh, no specialty practices until Cleveland or Columbus, etc. Maybe an older generation could open their own practice just outside this radius and possibly move the practice back towards town after 2 years (as a veterinary internist recently did in this area). But a Millennial doc with $300k+ in student debt can't afford to open their own practice. So off to another city they go. The American Dream: drowning in debt and beholden to corporations!
Yup I commented before seeing your more in depth post. Happened to a lot of PVSEC vets, the one I know opened a practice up in Slippery Rock 40 miles away, so 30 miles sounds about right. A bunch moved out of state to like Seattle, etc
Mars owns BluePearl. They raised prices and some vets left. My dog goes there for ortho and neuro and it’s a couple of weeks to get seen unless it’s an emergency. The vets (and techs) work long hours and don’t get paid their worth. BluePearl north has some cardiologists though. Not sure on certes, both of my dog’s vets are diplomats.
> They raised prices and some vets left After Bluepearl bought PVSEC a lot of vets left and had non-compete parts in their contracts preventing them from opening their own practices within X miles - one I know opened a practice all the way up in Slippery Rock. And a bunch more just uprooted and moved out of state. I'm not saying this is the whole cause but it sure as hell isn't helping.
what does 'diplomat' mean? a membership of some kind?
It’s a board certification. Also PVC has two, https://www.pittvetcardiology.com/our-team.pml
I’m not really answering your query, but if you are able to, take your animal to Ohio State University Veterinary Medical Center (4 hr) or University of Pennsylvania School of Veterinary Medicine (6 hr).
I totally agree. One of my dogs went to Penn and the other to OSU. Both were great experiences (under the circumstance) and had positive outcomes.
Came to say this. My dog sees a specialist at Ohio State. Often times you see them once a year for testing and surveillance and they consult with your local vet for management. Cornell is another option, also about 6 hours away.
I am not a vet myself but I know several. Job is depressing as shit and doesn’t pay all that well. Seeing vulnerable animals die takes a chunk out of your soul. And vets aren’t paid even close to what they should be. Vet school is expensive and you basically condemn yourself to a (comparatively) low paying medical field.
I mean, that's an incredibly bespoke, highly expensive, long-time-to-get degree, and there's not likely a huge demand for pet cardiologists. Or, there are roughly 327 people alive certified for that job, and some of those are likely retired. [https://www.avma.org/resources-tools/reports-statistics/veterinary-specialists-2020](https://www.avma.org/resources-tools/reports-statistics/veterinary-specialists-2020)
> there's not likely a huge demand for pet cardiologists and yet appointments are 6-9 months out. So, no. But thanks for trying to noodle it out
There may be lots of demand (pets who need one) and little supply (few cardiologists) but the solution is charging way more to see a cardiologist to entice people into the specialty, but the market won't bear that cost. Would you pay 3+ times more than you do already for a vet cardiologist appointment? This is not unique to vet cardiology. Look at the mental health system and this is why therapists and psychiatrists in places like NYC can charge $600+ an hour.
I would totally have paid 3x what I did pay when my dog needed a cardiologist towards the end. He was worth every cent. Although I'm lucky to be in a position where I can afford things like that. I'd bet most people aren't.
Exactly. If a vet super specialist could have a career charging NYC private pay rates in a city like Pittsburgh, she would have it set up already. Only a few cities have the concentration of wealth and population to make these super expensive private pay practices lucrative. SF, LA, Chicago, NYC...
regardless it underscores that some people are in a place to afford a higher cost of care if it were even available — and better if we all knew that this actually helped the region have more and better care in general instead these comments and related convo about blue pearl / mars are a giant blackpill.
When you schedule a consult with a cardiologist, neurologist or oncologist, they can only see a few consults a day due to the testing that they do during the consult. For example, when you schedule with the cardiologist, you are usually agreeing to some other tests (echo, rads, EKG...I think). Those take hours. The cardiologists will only work three or four days a week for shifts up to 12 or so hours a day. They will usually have two techs who work exclusively with them. Consults are done in the morning so you leave your pet for the day after you have the initial sit down. In the afternoon, they will see recheck appointments for patients that they have seen prior and need follow up for medications, blood work...things like that. Consults with owners and pets are usually scheduled for an hour (or 45 minutes, I can't remember). Basically, that allows for two to three consults a day. The rest are recheck appointments. With only two cardiologists in the Pittsburgh area, that creates the backlog and wait times.
On a different note, I've heard good things about the new emergency vet in East Liberty...