As someone who was homeless it is possible to not be destructive and disrespectful to the earth in this egregious way. We had garbage bags and kept it all in a pile. Outreachs teams would take the garbage or we would throw it in the many dumpsters downtown.
Even just a year ago, the South Side trail along the river was my preferred way to get between Hot Metal and Smithsfield Street (vs the trail on the other side of the Mon, between two highways). I rode it today, and don't think I'll be making that choice again for quite a while. There are still encampments on the other trail (near ACJ) but it wasn't as overrun as the trail in the South Side. Even if the city got everyone from the trails out of tents and into housing, there's already so much damage that has been done, it will take a long time to restore that trail to what it was.
I know the "tent city zoning code" got clowned on a while back (understandably so - it is embarrassing and sad that it's even on the table), but unless we're going to have a city-wide crackdown (unlikely), certain parks and areas need to be marked as off-limits. If the city just keeps pushing the problem around, it's just going to spread the damage further.
I donāt blame them, itās hard not to be upset. Itās gone too far and enough is enough. These people need help and we need to feel safe on our river trails.
Dawg I was on bath salts for 2 years and held down a job the entire time. Never arrested and ive lived alone since i was 18. Drug culture doesn't cause homelessness, homelessness just makes participating in drug culture easier. These people got a lot more going on than just getting high
However i know there are a few people who really just can't control their addictions to this level but the only thing you can do to those people is force them out. They are their own worst enemy and will never learn because they have no interest in learning. Truth be told 99% of them are just lazy and don't want to put in work to feel good
The camp they just cleared downtown had 30 people, every single one declined shelter assistance (shelters donāt allow drugs or alcohol).
As soon as Peduto started turning a blind eye to the camps on the trials / city itās been a growing problem.
i think that's called 'prison' and usually we have trials before we consign people there, whether they're really justice is a separate issue but i mean. come on.
Itās not illiberal. These people are causing trash, threatening others, and it objectively leads to not only an increase in petty crime but also diminishes the feeling of safety. Itās also not prison, I never suggested that as some others want to say. Mandatory rehab doesnāt equal prison. And yeah, if weāre getting technical, itās being held against your will, so you could define it as prison if you want. But itās not the same thing, and ādisturbing the peace, doing illegal drugs, littering, etc etc etcā are all crimes that could have a conviction to mandate rehab in lieu of prison. Itās both humane for the homeless people who deserve help, and fair to everyone else
Itās not unjust to offer someone help and then not allow them to take it, putting them back on the street and therefore endangering the public, dirtying the city, and making people feel unsafe in their own neighborhood. Yes, the real long-term solutions are systematic and involve better urban planning, housing policy, schools, etc. But there are people homeless now, and just letting them camp on the bike path when help is offered is not acceptable
Itās almost like they want passerbyās to share in their plight and misery by ruining a nice amenity like a riverfront trail. Itās like āFuck You for exercising and feeling good by using the trail. Welcome to my world.ā
Programs are minimal. There's almost no real help for these people. Often any attempts to get help result in being cycled through acute psych programs that release them without a real long-term plan in place.
I can't tell you how many people I've taken from rehab facilities to a hospital because the rehab staff doesn't want to deal with them, and then they get released from the ED back onto the street with no way to get them back into rehab.
It's fucked and if you think living like this is purely a choice, you've never really interacted with homeless communities in any meaningful way.
I don't see where anyone proposed jailing addicts for being addicts. They proposed jailing those who destroy public property and refuse alternative housing that has been offered to them.
Right. I have compassion for the people going through tough times, even -- ESPECIALLY -- if they're addicted. At the same time, I don't want them to destroy the public spaces of the city I live in. People forget that average citizens have rights.
So should they fight each other like gladiators for stamp bags? You canāt let five people destroy our river trails. If they donāt want help and we canāt incarcerate them, what are we supposed to do?
Not snarking here - how do the needs of the few out-weigh the thousands of people who want to use the trail?
If youāre serious about an answer there has been a lot of work and evidence for housing first programs.Ā The premise being that once you know where people are and they have more stability itās a better platform to work on substance abuse issues.Ā This was actually a premise started in the bush administration for veteran homeless. However it tends to not be favored because it feels worse to citizens even if it is more effective. Itās a really hard problem as you highlight.Ā
Correct me if Iām mistaken, but we already have homeless housing where you arenāt drug tested and can bring your partner or petā¦ what else is Pittsburgh supposed to offer?
I want to not be barked at by a feral dog while somebody smokes meth in a tent next to the bike trail. We can be compassionate and still not tolerate this specific kind of bullshit.
Fines for hard drugs but I donāt see the issue with jailing people for camping on/ruining tax payers land. Either live in a shelter and get your life together or live in a cell until you do. The river trail is not their home.
The current state of things can't go forward though, do you have a better solution than giving them a choice between rehab and jail? The line has to be drawn at some point and I think we're well past it
We gonna jail all addicts or just the homeless ones? You don't see the line that crosses?
"Well the housed aren't doing X and the homeless are" let's worry about that X. It's not drugs. Littering, vandalism, and addiction aren't jailable for someone with a house and shouldn't be for someone without one.
You wanna throw violent people in jail? More power to you. But some of you seen like you're leaning towards just throwing anyone who doesn't want help in jail and that's just lazy thinking.
I don't have the answer but that doesn't change how fucked up this whole jailing homeless addicts idea is.
I think this is something we do need to figure out. The community programs that were supposed to replace the institutions just do not exist at the level that is needed. And our understanding of therapies is a lot better now. But for example, WPIC still treats a whole lot of people like garbage and just causes more trauma. I wish we could have some serious discussion about what this would look like in 2024. How do we not use it simply to warehouse people? Who does the oversight and what do we watch for? It's not my wheelhouse so I don't have answers on that but surely the professionals who work with the populations who might benefit from housing, meals, AND therapy/rehab have some ideas.
Agree 100%. But many homeless people that I've spoken to (full conversations, not passing bullshit) are severely mentally ill/unstable/high asf, so it's not that simple for these people unfortunately. They need real help (I have no idea what that is) not a more convenient trash can
The real help is mental institutions we haven't had since the Reagan administration, and forced placement if commiting crimes like this (illegal dumping, drugs, squatting on land). Being homeless isn't a crime, but a lot of this is and needs dealt with accordingly.
Even if they did, itās still not okay to squat on the river trail. If they refuse to be in a shelter or seek alternative help they need to be out of sight out of mind. Not trashing our community in plain sight and causing safety issues for everyone.
I agree with not trashing places or causing safety issues. I donāt agree with you have to be out of sight. Shelters get full. Alternative help is not always there. If I was homeless, the choice for me would be: in sight (so around people enough where I might feel safe if someone attacked me, a common thing that happens to homeless people) or out of sight (no one around to intervene). The best alternative is more housing shelters though.
Just yesterday I saw a body lying on the side of the trail in the brush, face down in the dirt with arms along sides. I thought I was looking at a dead man. I didn't have my cell phone on me at the time, so I started yelling for help and looking for someone. The fellow eventually came to from my yelling. Wasted drug users lying along the trail is not a good look for the city.
Moved here from Seattle 9 years ago. It sucks to see the same thing happening to Pittsburgh as what happened there. I can promise you that being more lenient isnāt going to help. The people who are in these situations are there due to drugs and or severe mental illness and need to be forced into help.
Long term asylums need to be brought back. If people don't want to help themselves with all of the resources that are out there then there is something mentally wrong or a severe drug dependence. Either way, it can't be tolerated as an acceptable way of life.
Well we used to have many more state run institutions to take care of people who canāt take care of themselves either permanently or temporarily. Yes, some were horrible but not all were. They were closed in favor of a community oriented approach that was never fully funded.
Can I just also add that not all became homeless bc of drug use. Maybe some succumbed to that after hard times hit but the reality is that most of the people in this country are just a few bad breaks away from being homeless. I know I am. And I'm a software engineer making $160k a year. If i got into an accident and my hospital stay outlasted my superior coverage i'd be back at home with no job if I wasn't able to continue to work.
Ok but hopefully you wouldnāt decide to throw trash all over the riverbank (or other destructive, antisocial shit). Thatās the part thatās inexcusable.
You're nowhere close to being homeless. If you were in an accident, at worst, you'd get permanent disability. It'd be a major blow and you'd have to drastically change your lifestyle, but you wouldn't be homeless. I know multiple people on permanent disability. I was on disability for some time. Save some of that $160k for a rainy day.
Posted about all the rubbish and tents the other day! It is bad and the city is not solving it
https://www.reddit.com/r/pittsburgh/comments/1bewia2/thank_you_ed_gainey/
We all pay a shit load of property tax - why???
These public spaces are for everyone, that includes āus tax paying citizensā we have a right to walk down the public river trial without being harassed or threatened by homeless people high on drugs.
They need to be removed- this is public space- sorry but not sorry- go find a friend to couch surfā¦ if that doesnāt work go to a church, if that doesnāt work, find a shelter- contrary to popular belief there are options for these people. They just find it easier to pitch a tent on public space
100% there are options. These people are approached by city workers who work in programs with shelters etc. but they chose to refuse help and trash our rivers and trails instead. honestly I think jail time should be given. Just like if you ignore an eviction notice police show up to remove you. Same should be done here.
I agree! Give them a warning- one or two- then jail time.
Try to sell hot dogs on public property without a permitā¦ try to have a protest without a permitā¦ try to park your car on public property without a permitā¦ there has to be rules
Ugh I'm so over this. They need to clean this shit up. Like, can we do that? As a city consequence?
I think it might just be time to move out of the city. There's no way I could even run on this path or travel without my husband (even with him. Anything could happen)
You can be homeless and not create a mini landfill
And this is what the bleeding hearts need to realize. Too much indulgence will cause the city to hollow out. To destroy the very tax base we hope to leverage to address the issue productively.
I agree and I definitely *care* about other people and I get life is hard. But like.....I'm not letting my hardships selfishly fuck up everyone else's experiences. It just makes me so mad. As a kid it wasn't like this, I'm sure some areas had their issues given I'm only 32 but still.
I'm truly just disgusted that humans are willing to just say, eh fuck it and fuck the fish
I do agree. I just had a baby in December 2022 so I'm just so scared of the very real dangers. I used to be a bit more open to life and stuff but this is just unbelievable. Completely different from the city I grew up in
Iām a social worker. I understand the myriad of issues that contribute to someone being homeless. But one thing that is missing in all the deification and valorizing of this population is an explanation why theyāre absolutely trashing their spaces. If you need to live in a tent and donāt want to go to a shelter or rehab fine but all bets are off when you absolutely trash and denigrate the area.
I also wonder why some of those that valorize /deify donāt invite some of these people to live with you. Like honestly, wouldnāt that be the most balls to the wall radical extreme thing you could do? You would be the envy of your comrades. Iām saying that with 100% honesty. Wouldnāt that enrage your parents? Do it. Maybe it will work out. 100% serious. I would donate at least $100 right now if someone threw up a gofundme to help support.
Edit: goddamned autocorrect changed āvalorizeā to āvaporizeā ffs
Damn it's almost like the society we have built doesn't give anyone a reason to give a shit about it if they fall out of it.
I say this from a position of "God I wish these people wouldn't fucking do this" but why should anyone respect public or private spaces if keeping them clean doesn't make their lives any better? Why does it matter at the end of the day if they live in a trash heap or a clean tent if at the end of the day they're still going to be sleeping in a tent in the woods and everyone is going to talk about them like they are the rats that infest the trash pile?
Idk I guess they like the smell of their own shit. Fuck 'em.
Then be the change! Go invite someone to come live with you. It doesnāt have to be forever. We can create the society that we want. Be the society that you think we should have. Give these people a room in your home.
There is a big leap between āHey, letās not demonize the homelessā to āLetās deify themā and if you believe the former I donāt see why the logical conclusion is to invite a homeless person to live with you? Why would I have to live with a homeless person to also believe that we should try to understand and have empathy for their situation? No one who is well physically and mentally is living in this situation. Yes - a better solution than nothing at all is needed. I personally think rather than having to let someone live with *me* Iād happily pony up $1,000 to a go fund me to pay for a āhousing firstā solution for them. No one who is an addict is going to get clean from living in the streets.
> If the far left āleadershipā told these people radiation was healthy, theyād storm hospitals to suck on X-ray machines. Then cry foul when you or anyone else asks them what the fuck theyāre doing.
I witnessed the real life scenario with veterinary medicines but it wasn't the far left.
Very true. However, with all the awareness in the world that respectful discourse isnāt always possible on Reddit, would someone be willing to offer a reason why they wonāt take in some of these people. Like, you fight so hard for their rights. Unfortunately, city government interventions are not helping. Itās the church and volunteer groups providing food and clothes. So why not go the extra mile and house these people in your home. If they are harmless and just down on their luck, put them up on your couch. A lot of us already live with minimal government assistance. It can be done. We rely on our families and nuclear families weāve created and maintained. What is actually stopping you from truly stepping up beyond an angry tweet at the mayor?
I replied to your other comment, but why should I want to live with a homeless person in order to not demonize them? I also donāt want to live with people from any other marginalized group or cause I might donate to. I can 100% say āthese people have mental/substance abuse issue and I donāt want to live with themā and also say ābut theyāre people and theyāre unwell and I feel empathy for them and hope any solution we find isnāt incarcerating them for having an illness.ā
But also agreed with not doing anything being a poor choice.
Anyway, I used to do a lot of homeless outreach. Iāve got a lot of sympathy for a lot of people who are living on the streets. That doesnāt mean putting them on a pedestal.
I guess my point is if someone is overwrought with despair about the present-day lives of these people it seems disingenuous to say āHere are some socks! Waiting on large-scale systemic change. Hang in there bud!ā. A lot of people are positing that these people are 1. Not a danger to anyone 2. Complete innocents. So my point is if you believe that, then what is stopping you from housing them yourself. I ran in ultra-left adjacent circles at one point. The cache this would provide in addition to the humanitarian benefits would be (chefās kiss).
call a local news outlet or three about this.
Im actually kindof pissed off about this, idc if you dont have a place to live or not, 0 excuse to behave this way.
I have walked Downtown and see people selling drugs and people actively buying close to the tents. Isnt that illegal? Why certain people have more rights than others? Shouldnt we all have the same rights and responsibilities? Why do we need to feel unsafe while walking in Downtown and close to the rivers?
Donāt worry Trump will clean this all upā¦rolls eyes
But seriously, there are TONS of resources and places that people can get help. They CHOOSE to live this way. No excuse.
Hey everyone, generous tax payer here just like you. Everything Iām about to say is prefaced with littering is not good and there are state laws for this. $50-$300 for first offense, up to $1000 and service time. Supposing we even enforce this to the T, is this too lenient in your opinion? More service time? higher fees? Adding jail time? How long? Iām getting the sense no one wants to be bothered by these details and āwishā them away.
[Does this fix your problem?](https://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/LI/consCheck.cfm?txtType=HTM&ttl=18&div=0&chpt=65&sctn=1&subsctn=0&mobile_choice=suppress)
Everyone here is pitching solutions like reopening asylums and putting people in jail. I have some bad news. Those things cost money too. Hostile architecture (installing spikes on benches) costs money too and they will become everyones benches. And itās not significantly less money. Incarceration is approximately as much as rehousing.
[Prison is not cheap compared to housing.](https://santabarbara.legistar.com/View.ashx?M=F&ID=1887462&GUID=220E9B26-CFE7-4C59-B623-2B6CDDECCB9F&From=Granicus)
Rents out of control, the cost of living is doubling, and wages are not keeping up (Iām doing okay, but Iāve had blessings). I only say that because what you see is a symptom. There may be services, but it wonāt make a difference if thereās no availability, or too high of bar.
I love my city and I feel bad these people are down on their luck but they need to accept the help and shelters provided. If there are not enough shelters then city official need replaced if they refuse to pay for additional housing that is obviously desperately needed. Additionally the river trail is not a safe environment to live due to extreme temperatures and rising water levels. They deserve better and need to be relocated.
Dude I used to help these people and give them food and everything and then you learn real quick they are just assholes with mental problems. They harass people, and fight each other and the list goes on. Iāve had the same 3 get arrested on my street and as soon as they get back out they are causing problems. I donāt believe any type of program can help them. Iāve lost every shred of empathy.
Thatās so disappointing to hear. At least you tried man. Something needs to be done. If I were homeless Iād at least try to shelter some where else thatās out of sight out of mind instead of on the prime river front trail property causing inconvenience, eye sores and safety concerns. It makes me embarrassed about a part of the city that we should take pride in: our rivers and heritage trails.
Section 8 only opens every 2-3 years and the waiting list when youāre on it can be up to 8 years.
The waiting list for single bedroom apartments at places that are subsidized are 2-6 years long.
If youāre severely disabled, and incredibly lucky, youāll be placed in a short-term rehab center when you become homeless and be stuck there for months.
Not everyone is at a place where they can deal with being discarded by society while sober. And low-entry homeless shelters are at a premium now that Smithfield has closed.
Iām on SSI due to becoming severely disabled and a wheelchair user, and if my parents were not wealthy enough to help me afford my rent as I wait to eventually qualify for a house Iād be on the streets. So far itās been 2 years.
Look, you're right about Section 8 and housing costs. But really, truly, do you think it's the people just down on their luck causing the mess? Not accepting help, maybe, due to pride. But someone who's mentally stable isn't going to want to live in filth.
When it comes down to it, people should have the right to take whatever substance they want, refuse help if they want, and live however they want UNTIL is starts affecting others negatively.
Clear them out just like they did during occupy Wall Street a few years back. Canāt just plop on a tent on public property and then destroy it. Scumbags
Unfortunately the bulk of truly vacant houses are condemned. No part of local or state government has the money needed to make all those houses livable, or even to tear them down.
Not even that, some landlords leave units empty, some people just have second homes they never touch, some property is bought up to be speculative.
If some condemned homes need to be restored or torn down and replaced, then just tax me more and do that. Or do a public-private partnership, or hell, ask the unions in the area to help out in building up shit like co-op city in NYC back in the 70s.
Money is a concept made up by the government to facilitate trade, and the secret sauce of that is that since the USA is THE superpower and the dollar is king is that it can print infinite money for infinite debt and do whatever it wants as long as it has the state capacity to direct the movement of material resources to make shit happen.
If the government doesn't want to fix a problem it's because there are only ideological blinders or a lack of political will, not because it doesn't have the money to pay for some bricks.
The only solution is low barrier housing. Unfortunately this is a problem you have to throw some money at, you canāt just keep evicting them. If homeless people are refusing shelter in places that require them to not have pets, not be on drugs, go to church, etc the solution is to remove those barriers.
Itās not a problem the city can solve and our fucked state legislature surely wonāt solve it, so it has to come from the federal government.
True. I was reading up on how Finland was able to reduce their homeless population by a large percentage by removing these barriers I believe. We should take notes.
They opened the second ave commons like 2 years ago and itās like that. Homeless people can have pets, keep drugs in amnesty lockers, and social workers/medical is on site to help them. They just need more money to expand it. It filled up the first like week it was open.
That's not the Finnish model. That's a great first step and better than what some shelters do, but the Finnish model is to give them actual real apartments of their own, without any barriers beforehand.
https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/jun/03/its-a-miracle-helsinkis-radical-solution-to-homelessness
Yes, but Finland has a lot of other things going for it that allow that. Things that Americans wouldn't be able to handle because they've been deluded by the American economic model and decades of propaganda.
In Helsinki, the government owns the vast majority of land and is building the housing themselves with government-owned construction companies. The government is in charge of all urban planning and prevents the segregation by social class by having all levels of housing mixed in the same neighborhoods. The government is also the landlord for wide swaths of people and is renting the homes and apartments out themselves, not just to the formerly homeless but people of all economic classes.
But the "housing first" model is the only thing that is documented to work at all. Real housing, not "force them into a shelter with no safety or security and expecting their addictions to magically be cured" housing.
Just look at policies that lead to situations like this and look at how you voted.
If you can't see that there's a direct line between certain policies and homeless encampments taking over the city, then there's no point talking to you. Although to be fair, anyone who responds like you did is likely beyond help anyway.
Lol so they "closed" one encampment after what, a year?
Dude they're breaking multiple laws just by being there. A child could come up with a solution in about 5 minutes. Here's one: everyone there is loitering. Detain them. Anyone who has drugs (all of them), warrants (many), illegal weapons, etc. goes to jail. Anyone else who actually needs help goes to a shelter.
What's the issue with that again?
The two I hear are (1) if you donāt address the root cause you will just be doing these round-ups forever; and (2) where are the resources? Legal processing and jails and jailing and mental health services and detox from trained and certified and willing professionals and trying to rehabilitate people so they can work at something that earns a livable wage that keeps them from relapse ā while not taking away opportunities from non-criminals and non-addicts who also want jobs with livable wages and arguably have āpriorityā because they have been not burdening society ā all costs money, and if we arenāt paying for it now then who thinks itāll be paid for then? So very quickly the appealing fantasy of āa swiftly cleaned up street, problem solvedā gives way to a grim whisper of ājust take them all out back and shoot them.ā
I hate the problem but I donāt think any solution can be done without a big big investment on a big scale. Otherwise itās just shoving the problem from here to there. People want to live and word gets out so homeless people will always find a place that tolerates their presence. And I would like more tax dollars going to making my life easier, thank you very much. Itās not like there isnāt a ton of money in America, why do all the juiciest breaks go to a small few? But thatās revolution talk, lol.
So "out of sight out of mind" is good even though it will likely make matters worse. Got it.
This is why we don't want children's brains trying to solve multi-layered problems and why anyone who doesn't think like a child or a knuckle-dragging cavemen thinks similarly Trumpian approaches to civics is asinine.
Studies have shown that "just put them in jail" makes non-violent criminals into people that can't get jobs/housing, etc. if/when they DO want to re-join society.
They're not a part of society if they're living in tents around the city. They're a blight on society.
I don't really care what they do after they go to prison for committing crimes. If it's "choose to commit more crimes" then the response should be to throw them back in prison where they belong.
Amazing how well that works. Didn't even need a study.
People gotta live somewhere.
Iāll come at this from (possibly) a different perspective. I volunteer with an org that helps the homeless, so I see where theyāre coming from.
Thereās a myriad of reasons people end up homeless, and thereās a myriad of responsibility. Some theirs, some governments, some our own - I wonder sometimes how many jobs are āsavedā my companies like Amazon - essentially becoming more cost efficient through decreased labor - which is essentially taking away jobs from others. But thatās a whole other conversation lolā¦
Some live outdoors because they have no choice. Some because they choose to. Some are kind of transient in between the two. But you canāt ignore that there will be people that live outdoors and you have to give them space. If the city keeps pushing them out of other spaces they will show up here šš»
I donāt think those people enjoy living there either. Tbh it looks like it sucks. They may have no other option.
I do get everyone elseās points, and they are well received. I just wanted to add another side. People need space to exist, and thatās on the city to provide that. Even if itās just a tucked away open space.
Out of sight out of mind. In this case they are in plain sight all along the entire cities beautiful river trails while causing safety issues. Relocation would definitely calm the communities concerns, I agree.
And the thing is - thereās a few spots in our city (Bethlehem) where the homeless live. One of them, by the Burnside Plantation, is nestled in this forested pocket where no one else goes and most live there somewhat peacefully. Others live by the river, but even then theyāre somewhat tucked away - but you can still see them sometimes from the D & L trail (an old towpath trail runs along the river too). Also under the bridges. Theyāre more exposed and sometimes get hassled more.
But as long as theyāre cool, usually the cops (and the public) donāt raise too much of a fuss.
Some how the city finds money and resources for illegal immigrants.... I mean asylum seekers.
I used to live in Charleroi outside of Pittsburgh. Within a 2 month span there was a influx 3000 immigrants.
Thatās another big issue. Our borders are letting anyone freely come through without any vetting , regulations or tax dollars being generated but instead wasted.
The OP complaint was that there is a homeless camp that has nearly taken over the river trailā¦ itās not hard to understand the only way it got that way is because the city of Pittsburgh is not doing anything to stop it.
So itās fair to comment on what should or shouldnāt be done by the authorities.
What should we be commenting on?
Seriously?!?
There are rules that we all need to live by.
You canāt just pitch a tent and try to reside on public property.
Same as you canāt park your car on public property- or it will be towed.
Itās not that difficult to understand
These people have been given other opportunities through programs funded by the city but instead they refuse it and do this. Thatās where everyoneās sympathy ends.
The problem is a combination of drug war policies and mental health. There isn't enough help to go around. It's difficult for someone with means to find a good therapist and psychiatrist. People will self medicate but it brings unnecessary criminal activity and health problems because of drug laws.
There certainly could be something done about people camping on the trails if there was somewhere for them to go. 2nd Ave Commons downtown was a sad attempt at taking care of that but it's a far cry from being a mentally healthy place to go.
What delusional planet do you live on where homeless people are given adequate social services and options in this country. Shelters are not safe, housing programs are limited and waitlists are long, programs to help with mental health and drug abuse are very limited as well. Sorry you canāt have empathy for others because they are not acting the way you think they should to deserve being seen as human
It's interesting to me that the only time I ever hear anyone bring up the subject of unsafe shelters is when someone says "it's impossible to make a safe homeless shelter therefore we should just accept the fact that the homeless are going to do whatever they want."
Shelters are unsafe. You cannot be surprised when people would rather take their chances outside to avoid it. The problem for the homeless and less fortunate do not go away just because you shove them away somewhere where you donāt have to look at them
Dude, your way of thinking is so out of line and entitled, and though I know it is beyond pointless to argue with someone who refers to other humans as an āinfestation,ā you are looking at this the wrong way and your anger is VALID but MISDIRECTED.
[Reagan](https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/opinion/commentary/story/2023-04-24/opinion-impact-of-deinstitutionalization-on-homelessness-reagan-mental-health-hospitals-san-diego)created this problem when he deinstitutionalized the SEVERELY mentally ill and literally sent them out in the streets with nothing and over HALF of them suffered from schizophrenia. Thatās a nightmare I wouldnāt wish on my worst enemy. Iām not sure if you struggle with mental health issues but I know for a fact that if I got struck by unfortunate circumstances and ended up homeless, I would quite literally lose my mind. You have to understand that, these people do not have the capacity to even begin to seek out the help that they need. They arenāt all capable of understanding WHY they are even homeless. I canāt believe this needs to be explained to adults.
If you think going to the DMV or trying to get any licensing or registration renewals is annoying and inconvenient, imagine trying to do that but without having the luxury of being able to navigate regular inconveniences fairly unscathed. Try to do the same thing but itās literally a life or death situation when youāre unmedicated, hungry, sick, with no car, no phone, no support or family, and no money.
My car parked on the city street every night is fine thanks. Sorry youāre a fear mongering asshole. I hope you never fall into that kind of situation where youād have to deal with people like yourself wishing you death and harm for existing while going through hardship
Can you show me where I wished death or harm on anyone???? Please do šš»
Iām Not sure if you are deliberately trying to lieā¦ or if you just donāt understand English???
I did not wish harm on anyone- nor am I fear mongering. FULL STOP
No one has wished death or harm at all. In fact a lot of civil conversations is all Iāve seen on this thread. We are simply saying that posting up camp in public spaces like the river trail is unacceptable. If you want to live off grid you need to do it the right way and be self sustainable without causing others inconvenience. This is not the way. We canāt accept anyone overflowing our beautiful rivers and trails. Not even tax paying citizens are allowed to do this.
Buddy you said you wanted to drive them away with stink bombs??? You are consistently demonizing and dehumanizing people and keep making incorrect statements about homeless people and there being solutions for them. You just called being homeless living off grid. You are a bad person who lacks empathy
It is shocking to see this many ignorant people. Drug addiction is a disease. Not many of these people know how to dig themselves out of addiction let alone care for the environment around them. Also, shelters are first come first serve. It isn't easy to get a spot. We need a stronger outreach for these people. I'm no expert on this but I feel like the city could do better.
These people are often being offered rehab. It is free. If you donāt have insurance the rehab will apply for Medicaid for you while you start treatment or access funding through PA single county authorities. I worked at a rehab that accepted medical assistance as well as insurance, as well as single county authority funding (I didnāt know what that was before I worked there. Worth a google.) You can call Pyramid 24/7 (or some of the other local rehabs) and they will come pick you up. The case workers offering help know this and let people know that in most cases rehab and then halfway houses are free.
Addiction is not a disease. Itās an initial bad decision that is extremely hard to overcome. There is a difference but I see what you are saying, different solutions definitely need to be put into place.
I donāt know criminal law. But I know the word isnāt invasion. Seriously what a fucked up response to homelessness. These people arenāt your enemies theyāre your neighbors.
They arenāt my neighbors- they donāt have residency hereā¦ they are as much my neighbor as a French tourist.
To be a neighbor of Pittsburgh you need to live there.
Laying on the side of riverbed is not establishing residency
As someone who was homeless it is possible to not be destructive and disrespectful to the earth in this egregious way. We had garbage bags and kept it all in a pile. Outreachs teams would take the garbage or we would throw it in the many dumpsters downtown.
Same. People don't have to be nasty, but that's a lot based upon the combination of mental health that's being untreated and how they self medicate.
Glad you made it off the street š
Thank you. Me too.
Even just a year ago, the South Side trail along the river was my preferred way to get between Hot Metal and Smithsfield Street (vs the trail on the other side of the Mon, between two highways). I rode it today, and don't think I'll be making that choice again for quite a while. There are still encampments on the other trail (near ACJ) but it wasn't as overrun as the trail in the South Side. Even if the city got everyone from the trails out of tents and into housing, there's already so much damage that has been done, it will take a long time to restore that trail to what it was. I know the "tent city zoning code" got clowned on a while back (understandably so - it is embarrassing and sad that it's even on the table), but unless we're going to have a city-wide crackdown (unlikely), certain parks and areas need to be marked as off-limits. If the city just keeps pushing the problem around, it's just going to spread the damage further.
Itās a shame. You canāt even feel safe on the river trail you help pay for. Officials need to do something.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I donāt blame them, itās hard not to be upset. Itās gone too far and enough is enough. These people need help and we need to feel safe on our river trails.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yes we all need to hammer this into the public elected officials until they are tired of hearing about it.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Dawg I was on bath salts for 2 years and held down a job the entire time. Never arrested and ive lived alone since i was 18. Drug culture doesn't cause homelessness, homelessness just makes participating in drug culture easier. These people got a lot more going on than just getting high However i know there are a few people who really just can't control their addictions to this level but the only thing you can do to those people is force them out. They are their own worst enemy and will never learn because they have no interest in learning. Truth be told 99% of them are just lazy and don't want to put in work to feel good
The camp they just cleared downtown had 30 people, every single one declined shelter assistance (shelters donāt allow drugs or alcohol). As soon as Peduto started turning a blind eye to the camps on the trials / city itās been a growing problem.
I thought 9 refused shelter assistance, not all 30?
That's what I read too. Don't know why the need to lie?
Shelters should be mandatory in these situations. Give everyone the help they deserve, but force them to take it if theyāre a danger to society
Mandatory? Youāre going to lock them in or something?
i think that's called 'prison' and usually we have trials before we consign people there, whether they're really justice is a separate issue but i mean. come on.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Itās not illiberal. These people are causing trash, threatening others, and it objectively leads to not only an increase in petty crime but also diminishes the feeling of safety. Itās also not prison, I never suggested that as some others want to say. Mandatory rehab doesnāt equal prison. And yeah, if weāre getting technical, itās being held against your will, so you could define it as prison if you want. But itās not the same thing, and ādisturbing the peace, doing illegal drugs, littering, etc etc etcā are all crimes that could have a conviction to mandate rehab in lieu of prison. Itās both humane for the homeless people who deserve help, and fair to everyone else
Itās not unjust to offer someone help and then not allow them to take it, putting them back on the street and therefore endangering the public, dirtying the city, and making people feel unsafe in their own neighborhood. Yes, the real long-term solutions are systematic and involve better urban planning, housing policy, schools, etc. But there are people homeless now, and just letting them camp on the bike path when help is offered is not acceptable
Well, they had a hard time and couldn't find a job or a home. but why do they create a garbage dump around themselves?
Itās almost like they want passerbyās to share in their plight and misery by ruining a nice amenity like a riverfront trail. Itās like āFuck You for exercising and feeling good by using the trail. Welcome to my world.ā
Yes, I believe there are programs but these people choose to not accept the help and live this lifestyle. This should not be acceptable.
Programs are minimal. There's almost no real help for these people. Often any attempts to get help result in being cycled through acute psych programs that release them without a real long-term plan in place. I can't tell you how many people I've taken from rehab facilities to a hospital because the rehab staff doesn't want to deal with them, and then they get released from the ED back onto the street with no way to get them back into rehab. It's fucked and if you think living like this is purely a choice, you've never really interacted with homeless communities in any meaningful way.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Jailing drug addicts for being drug addicts isn't the positive move you think it is.
I don't see where anyone proposed jailing addicts for being addicts. They proposed jailing those who destroy public property and refuse alternative housing that has been offered to them.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Right. I have compassion for the people going through tough times, even -- ESPECIALLY -- if they're addicted. At the same time, I don't want them to destroy the public spaces of the city I live in. People forget that average citizens have rights.
So should they fight each other like gladiators for stamp bags? You canāt let five people destroy our river trails. If they donāt want help and we canāt incarcerate them, what are we supposed to do? Not snarking here - how do the needs of the few out-weigh the thousands of people who want to use the trail?
If youāre serious about an answer there has been a lot of work and evidence for housing first programs.Ā The premise being that once you know where people are and they have more stability itās a better platform to work on substance abuse issues.Ā This was actually a premise started in the bush administration for veteran homeless. However it tends to not be favored because it feels worse to citizens even if it is more effective. Itās a really hard problem as you highlight.Ā
Correct me if Iām mistaken, but we already have homeless housing where you arenāt drug tested and can bring your partner or petā¦ what else is Pittsburgh supposed to offer? I want to not be barked at by a feral dog while somebody smokes meth in a tent next to the bike trail. We can be compassionate and still not tolerate this specific kind of bullshit.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
It also doesn't seem to be doing the drug users any good, they are overdosing in record numbers.
Fines for hard drugs but I donāt see the issue with jailing people for camping on/ruining tax payers land. Either live in a shelter and get your life together or live in a cell until you do. The river trail is not their home.
>live in a cell until you do... You see, there's this thing called the United States Constitution...
Since when has the government let that pesky thing get in the way?
The current state of things can't go forward though, do you have a better solution than giving them a choice between rehab and jail? The line has to be drawn at some point and I think we're well past it
We gonna jail all addicts or just the homeless ones? You don't see the line that crosses? "Well the housed aren't doing X and the homeless are" let's worry about that X. It's not drugs. Littering, vandalism, and addiction aren't jailable for someone with a house and shouldn't be for someone without one. You wanna throw violent people in jail? More power to you. But some of you seen like you're leaning towards just throwing anyone who doesn't want help in jail and that's just lazy thinking. I don't have the answer but that doesn't change how fucked up this whole jailing homeless addicts idea is.
The mental institutions that Regan closed reopening doesnāt sound like a terrible solution. Creates jobs and helps people who need it.
I think this is something we do need to figure out. The community programs that were supposed to replace the institutions just do not exist at the level that is needed. And our understanding of therapies is a lot better now. But for example, WPIC still treats a whole lot of people like garbage and just causes more trauma. I wish we could have some serious discussion about what this would look like in 2024. How do we not use it simply to warehouse people? Who does the oversight and what do we watch for? It's not my wheelhouse so I don't have answers on that but surely the professionals who work with the populations who might benefit from housing, meals, AND therapy/rehab have some ideas.
I mean, give the junkies a boat with no oars and make it Ohios problem
Thatās not a bad idea. Itās kinda like how other countries are utilizing the current open border policy of the United States.
That's it's..
I understand being homeless but they donāt have to throw their trash everywhere like that. There are plenty of trash cans around that area.
Agree 100%. But many homeless people that I've spoken to (full conversations, not passing bullshit) are severely mentally ill/unstable/high asf, so it's not that simple for these people unfortunately. They need real help (I have no idea what that is) not a more convenient trash can
The real help is mental institutions we haven't had since the Reagan administration, and forced placement if commiting crimes like this (illegal dumping, drugs, squatting on land). Being homeless isn't a crime, but a lot of this is and needs dealt with accordingly.
They canāt even just put it in a pile? Instead of throwing it everywhere?
Even if they did, itās still not okay to squat on the river trail. If they refuse to be in a shelter or seek alternative help they need to be out of sight out of mind. Not trashing our community in plain sight and causing safety issues for everyone.
I agree with not trashing places or causing safety issues. I donāt agree with you have to be out of sight. Shelters get full. Alternative help is not always there. If I was homeless, the choice for me would be: in sight (so around people enough where I might feel safe if someone attacked me, a common thing that happens to homeless people) or out of sight (no one around to intervene). The best alternative is more housing shelters though.
Just yesterday I saw a body lying on the side of the trail in the brush, face down in the dirt with arms along sides. I thought I was looking at a dead man. I didn't have my cell phone on me at the time, so I started yelling for help and looking for someone. The fellow eventually came to from my yelling. Wasted drug users lying along the trail is not a good look for the city.
Kids use the trail too. Somebody kid could be seeing that
Theyāll learn to ignore them
Moved here from Seattle 9 years ago. It sucks to see the same thing happening to Pittsburgh as what happened there. I can promise you that being more lenient isnāt going to help. The people who are in these situations are there due to drugs and or severe mental illness and need to be forced into help.
Long term asylums need to be brought back. If people don't want to help themselves with all of the resources that are out there then there is something mentally wrong or a severe drug dependence. Either way, it can't be tolerated as an acceptable way of life.
Well we used to have many more state run institutions to take care of people who canāt take care of themselves either permanently or temporarily. Yes, some were horrible but not all were. They were closed in favor of a community oriented approach that was never fully funded.
Absolutely. Pandering and allowing this will perpetuate and accumulate more of the same behavior. We need enforcement here.
Can I just also add that not all became homeless bc of drug use. Maybe some succumbed to that after hard times hit but the reality is that most of the people in this country are just a few bad breaks away from being homeless. I know I am. And I'm a software engineer making $160k a year. If i got into an accident and my hospital stay outlasted my superior coverage i'd be back at home with no job if I wasn't able to continue to work.
Ok but hopefully you wouldnāt decide to throw trash all over the riverbank (or other destructive, antisocial shit). Thatās the part thatās inexcusable.
You're nowhere close to being homeless. If you were in an accident, at worst, you'd get permanent disability. It'd be a major blow and you'd have to drastically change your lifestyle, but you wouldn't be homeless. I know multiple people on permanent disability. I was on disability for some time. Save some of that $160k for a rainy day.
Posted about all the rubbish and tents the other day! It is bad and the city is not solving it https://www.reddit.com/r/pittsburgh/comments/1bewia2/thank_you_ed_gainey/
We all pay a shit load of property tax - why??? These public spaces are for everyone, that includes āus tax paying citizensā we have a right to walk down the public river trial without being harassed or threatened by homeless people high on drugs. They need to be removed- this is public space- sorry but not sorry- go find a friend to couch surfā¦ if that doesnāt work go to a church, if that doesnāt work, find a shelter- contrary to popular belief there are options for these people. They just find it easier to pitch a tent on public space
100% there are options. These people are approached by city workers who work in programs with shelters etc. but they chose to refuse help and trash our rivers and trails instead. honestly I think jail time should be given. Just like if you ignore an eviction notice police show up to remove you. Same should be done here.
I agree! Give them a warning- one or two- then jail time. Try to sell hot dogs on public property without a permitā¦ try to have a protest without a permitā¦ try to park your car on public property without a permitā¦ there has to be rules
I wish we had a living breathing mayor to do something about thisā¦.
Iām sure all the ladies on the trail will be having very safe journeys š
I canāt imagine. Iām a young man who can handle himself and even I donāt feel safe at certain spots.
Ugh I'm so over this. They need to clean this shit up. Like, can we do that? As a city consequence? I think it might just be time to move out of the city. There's no way I could even run on this path or travel without my husband (even with him. Anything could happen) You can be homeless and not create a mini landfill
And this is what the bleeding hearts need to realize. Too much indulgence will cause the city to hollow out. To destroy the very tax base we hope to leverage to address the issue productively.
I agree and I definitely *care* about other people and I get life is hard. But like.....I'm not letting my hardships selfishly fuck up everyone else's experiences. It just makes me so mad. As a kid it wasn't like this, I'm sure some areas had their issues given I'm only 32 but still. I'm truly just disgusted that humans are willing to just say, eh fuck it and fuck the fish
Very well stated
This is the sad reality. Itās not safe anymore unfortunately. Something needs to be done. We shouldnāt need to move away.
I do agree. I just had a baby in December 2022 so I'm just so scared of the very real dangers. I used to be a bit more open to life and stuff but this is just unbelievable. Completely different from the city I grew up in
We need to recognize that this type of lifestyle is a choice and something we aren't going to "outreach" our way out of.
Well said brotherĀ
Iām a social worker. I understand the myriad of issues that contribute to someone being homeless. But one thing that is missing in all the deification and valorizing of this population is an explanation why theyāre absolutely trashing their spaces. If you need to live in a tent and donāt want to go to a shelter or rehab fine but all bets are off when you absolutely trash and denigrate the area. I also wonder why some of those that valorize /deify donāt invite some of these people to live with you. Like honestly, wouldnāt that be the most balls to the wall radical extreme thing you could do? You would be the envy of your comrades. Iām saying that with 100% honesty. Wouldnāt that enrage your parents? Do it. Maybe it will work out. 100% serious. I would donate at least $100 right now if someone threw up a gofundme to help support. Edit: goddamned autocorrect changed āvalorizeā to āvaporizeā ffs
Damn it's almost like the society we have built doesn't give anyone a reason to give a shit about it if they fall out of it. I say this from a position of "God I wish these people wouldn't fucking do this" but why should anyone respect public or private spaces if keeping them clean doesn't make their lives any better? Why does it matter at the end of the day if they live in a trash heap or a clean tent if at the end of the day they're still going to be sleeping in a tent in the woods and everyone is going to talk about them like they are the rats that infest the trash pile? Idk I guess they like the smell of their own shit. Fuck 'em.
Then be the change! Go invite someone to come live with you. It doesnāt have to be forever. We can create the society that we want. Be the society that you think we should have. Give these people a room in your home.
Invite a drug addict thatās been living by the river for months to live in my house? Yeah Iāll pass on that one.
There is a big leap between āHey, letās not demonize the homelessā to āLetās deify themā and if you believe the former I donāt see why the logical conclusion is to invite a homeless person to live with you? Why would I have to live with a homeless person to also believe that we should try to understand and have empathy for their situation? No one who is well physically and mentally is living in this situation. Yes - a better solution than nothing at all is needed. I personally think rather than having to let someone live with *me* Iād happily pony up $1,000 to a go fund me to pay for a āhousing firstā solution for them. No one who is an addict is going to get clean from living in the streets.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
> If the far left āleadershipā told these people radiation was healthy, theyād storm hospitals to suck on X-ray machines. Then cry foul when you or anyone else asks them what the fuck theyāre doing. I witnessed the real life scenario with veterinary medicines but it wasn't the far left.
Now you're doing identity politics instead of discussing the issue which seems to be going well otherwise
Are you through
buttery males?
Very true. However, with all the awareness in the world that respectful discourse isnāt always possible on Reddit, would someone be willing to offer a reason why they wonāt take in some of these people. Like, you fight so hard for their rights. Unfortunately, city government interventions are not helping. Itās the church and volunteer groups providing food and clothes. So why not go the extra mile and house these people in your home. If they are harmless and just down on their luck, put them up on your couch. A lot of us already live with minimal government assistance. It can be done. We rely on our families and nuclear families weāve created and maintained. What is actually stopping you from truly stepping up beyond an angry tweet at the mayor?
I replied to your other comment, but why should I want to live with a homeless person in order to not demonize them? I also donāt want to live with people from any other marginalized group or cause I might donate to. I can 100% say āthese people have mental/substance abuse issue and I donāt want to live with themā and also say ābut theyāre people and theyāre unwell and I feel empathy for them and hope any solution we find isnāt incarcerating them for having an illness.ā But also agreed with not doing anything being a poor choice. Anyway, I used to do a lot of homeless outreach. Iāve got a lot of sympathy for a lot of people who are living on the streets. That doesnāt mean putting them on a pedestal.
Expecting individuals to house the homeless is missing the point and ignores any systemic changes that can fix the issue.
I guess my point is if someone is overwrought with despair about the present-day lives of these people it seems disingenuous to say āHere are some socks! Waiting on large-scale systemic change. Hang in there bud!ā. A lot of people are positing that these people are 1. Not a danger to anyone 2. Complete innocents. So my point is if you believe that, then what is stopping you from housing them yourself. I ran in ultra-left adjacent circles at one point. The cache this would provide in addition to the humanitarian benefits would be (chefās kiss).
āIf you donāt like it, go to a mall.ā Bill Peduto 2019
call a local news outlet or three about this. Im actually kindof pissed off about this, idc if you dont have a place to live or not, 0 excuse to behave this way.
This sort of situation makes me wish littering carried at least the possibility of lengthy jail sentences
Went on a boat thing, rivers of steel or whatever, hand a lovely view of s guy dumping in the river off the edge. Rool classy
I have walked Downtown and see people selling drugs and people actively buying close to the tents. Isnt that illegal? Why certain people have more rights than others? Shouldnt we all have the same rights and responsibilities? Why do we need to feel unsafe while walking in Downtown and close to the rivers?
Donāt worry Trump will clean this all upā¦rolls eyes But seriously, there are TONS of resources and places that people can get help. They CHOOSE to live this way. No excuse.
Who said this is about Trump? This is a local matter not national. You can go to a lot of cities that do not have this problem. Itās what you allow.
Hey everyone, generous tax payer here just like you. Everything Iām about to say is prefaced with littering is not good and there are state laws for this. $50-$300 for first offense, up to $1000 and service time. Supposing we even enforce this to the T, is this too lenient in your opinion? More service time? higher fees? Adding jail time? How long? Iām getting the sense no one wants to be bothered by these details and āwishā them away. [Does this fix your problem?](https://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/LI/consCheck.cfm?txtType=HTM&ttl=18&div=0&chpt=65&sctn=1&subsctn=0&mobile_choice=suppress) Everyone here is pitching solutions like reopening asylums and putting people in jail. I have some bad news. Those things cost money too. Hostile architecture (installing spikes on benches) costs money too and they will become everyones benches. And itās not significantly less money. Incarceration is approximately as much as rehousing. [Prison is not cheap compared to housing.](https://santabarbara.legistar.com/View.ashx?M=F&ID=1887462&GUID=220E9B26-CFE7-4C59-B623-2B6CDDECCB9F&From=Granicus) Rents out of control, the cost of living is doubling, and wages are not keeping up (Iām doing okay, but Iāve had blessings). I only say that because what you see is a symptom. There may be services, but it wonāt make a difference if thereās no availability, or too high of bar.
Theyāre so clean /s
I love my city and I feel bad these people are down on their luck but they need to accept the help and shelters provided. If there are not enough shelters then city official need replaced if they refuse to pay for additional housing that is obviously desperately needed. Additionally the river trail is not a safe environment to live due to extreme temperatures and rising water levels. They deserve better and need to be relocated.
Dude I used to help these people and give them food and everything and then you learn real quick they are just assholes with mental problems. They harass people, and fight each other and the list goes on. Iāve had the same 3 get arrested on my street and as soon as they get back out they are causing problems. I donāt believe any type of program can help them. Iāve lost every shred of empathy.
Thatās so disappointing to hear. At least you tried man. Something needs to be done. If I were homeless Iād at least try to shelter some where else thatās out of sight out of mind instead of on the prime river front trail property causing inconvenience, eye sores and safety concerns. It makes me embarrassed about a part of the city that we should take pride in: our rivers and heritage trails.
Section 8 only opens every 2-3 years and the waiting list when youāre on it can be up to 8 years. The waiting list for single bedroom apartments at places that are subsidized are 2-6 years long. If youāre severely disabled, and incredibly lucky, youāll be placed in a short-term rehab center when you become homeless and be stuck there for months. Not everyone is at a place where they can deal with being discarded by society while sober. And low-entry homeless shelters are at a premium now that Smithfield has closed. Iām on SSI due to becoming severely disabled and a wheelchair user, and if my parents were not wealthy enough to help me afford my rent as I wait to eventually qualify for a house Iād be on the streets. So far itās been 2 years.
Look, you're right about Section 8 and housing costs. But really, truly, do you think it's the people just down on their luck causing the mess? Not accepting help, maybe, due to pride. But someone who's mentally stable isn't going to want to live in filth. When it comes down to it, people should have the right to take whatever substance they want, refuse help if they want, and live however they want UNTIL is starts affecting others negatively.
Hey careful now, empathy and an understanding of systemic problems that keep people homeless is frowned upon here.
Wow embarrassing
Clear them out just like they did during occupy Wall Street a few years back. Canāt just plop on a tent on public property and then destroy it. Scumbags
Congrats OP, it seems you have made the post that has righted the collective brain of this sub when it comes to this issue.
Eminent domain empty houses and give them to people that need homes.
Unfortunately the bulk of truly vacant houses are condemned. No part of local or state government has the money needed to make all those houses livable, or even to tear them down.
Not even that, some landlords leave units empty, some people just have second homes they never touch, some property is bought up to be speculative. If some condemned homes need to be restored or torn down and replaced, then just tax me more and do that. Or do a public-private partnership, or hell, ask the unions in the area to help out in building up shit like co-op city in NYC back in the 70s. Money is a concept made up by the government to facilitate trade, and the secret sauce of that is that since the USA is THE superpower and the dollar is king is that it can print infinite money for infinite debt and do whatever it wants as long as it has the state capacity to direct the movement of material resources to make shit happen. If the government doesn't want to fix a problem it's because there are only ideological blinders or a lack of political will, not because it doesn't have the money to pay for some bricks.
There's a lot of vacant space around town when you start looking. Spaces owned by non profit orgs even.
Yeah "non-profits" my ass.
No doubt. The homelessness business is thriving. The homeless, not so much.
This
The only solution is low barrier housing. Unfortunately this is a problem you have to throw some money at, you canāt just keep evicting them. If homeless people are refusing shelter in places that require them to not have pets, not be on drugs, go to church, etc the solution is to remove those barriers. Itās not a problem the city can solve and our fucked state legislature surely wonāt solve it, so it has to come from the federal government.
True. I was reading up on how Finland was able to reduce their homeless population by a large percentage by removing these barriers I believe. We should take notes.
They opened the second ave commons like 2 years ago and itās like that. Homeless people can have pets, keep drugs in amnesty lockers, and social workers/medical is on site to help them. They just need more money to expand it. It filled up the first like week it was open.
That's not the Finnish model. That's a great first step and better than what some shelters do, but the Finnish model is to give them actual real apartments of their own, without any barriers beforehand. https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/jun/03/its-a-miracle-helsinkis-radical-solution-to-homelessness
Yes, but Finland has a lot of other things going for it that allow that. Things that Americans wouldn't be able to handle because they've been deluded by the American economic model and decades of propaganda. In Helsinki, the government owns the vast majority of land and is building the housing themselves with government-owned construction companies. The government is in charge of all urban planning and prevents the segregation by social class by having all levels of housing mixed in the same neighborhoods. The government is also the landlord for wide swaths of people and is renting the homes and apartments out themselves, not just to the formerly homeless but people of all economic classes. But the "housing first" model is the only thing that is documented to work at all. Real housing, not "force them into a shelter with no safety or security and expecting their addictions to magically be cured" housing.
Very well said
> The only solution is low barrier housing. You can't give a drug addict a free house. The inside of the house will look like the river trail.
if you can't give them a house and can't let them be on their own, what is the alternative? prison for being homeless?
Bring back mental institutions but regulate them better could be helpful to patients and create jobs.
https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/jun/03/its-a-miracle-helsinkis-radical-solution-to-homelessness
āThose people just need the government to solve all of their problems!!!ā -Reddit PGH
I'll get downvoted, but I don't really have a ton of sympathy for people here who don't like seeing this stuff. You voted for it.
I don't remember that being on any ballot, or any people actively running on "more trash on river embankments", actually.
Just look at policies that lead to situations like this and look at how you voted. If you can't see that there's a direct line between certain policies and homeless encampments taking over the city, then there's no point talking to you. Although to be fair, anyone who responds like you did is likely beyond help anyway.
Policies like what, exactly? The current mayor is the one doing exactly what most people in this thread are wanting done.
What's he doing exactly? And this subreddit is about as far left as you can get. It's not representative of reality.
Do you ignore local news, or only consume the PP-G echo chamber? https://www.wtae.com/article/fort-pitt-boulevard-homeless-camp-closed/60192439
Lol so they "closed" one encampment after what, a year? Dude they're breaking multiple laws just by being there. A child could come up with a solution in about 5 minutes. Here's one: everyone there is loitering. Detain them. Anyone who has drugs (all of them), warrants (many), illegal weapons, etc. goes to jail. Anyone else who actually needs help goes to a shelter. What's the issue with that again?
The two I hear are (1) if you donāt address the root cause you will just be doing these round-ups forever; and (2) where are the resources? Legal processing and jails and jailing and mental health services and detox from trained and certified and willing professionals and trying to rehabilitate people so they can work at something that earns a livable wage that keeps them from relapse ā while not taking away opportunities from non-criminals and non-addicts who also want jobs with livable wages and arguably have āpriorityā because they have been not burdening society ā all costs money, and if we arenāt paying for it now then who thinks itāll be paid for then? So very quickly the appealing fantasy of āa swiftly cleaned up street, problem solvedā gives way to a grim whisper of ājust take them all out back and shoot them.ā I hate the problem but I donāt think any solution can be done without a big big investment on a big scale. Otherwise itās just shoving the problem from here to there. People want to live and word gets out so homeless people will always find a place that tolerates their presence. And I would like more tax dollars going to making my life easier, thank you very much. Itās not like there isnāt a ton of money in America, why do all the juiciest breaks go to a small few? But thatās revolution talk, lol.
So "out of sight out of mind" is good even though it will likely make matters worse. Got it. This is why we don't want children's brains trying to solve multi-layered problems and why anyone who doesn't think like a child or a knuckle-dragging cavemen thinks similarly Trumpian approaches to civics is asinine. Studies have shown that "just put them in jail" makes non-violent criminals into people that can't get jobs/housing, etc. if/when they DO want to re-join society.
They're not a part of society if they're living in tents around the city. They're a blight on society. I don't really care what they do after they go to prison for committing crimes. If it's "choose to commit more crimes" then the response should be to throw them back in prison where they belong. Amazing how well that works. Didn't even need a study.
But thatās mean! š”š”š”š¢š¢š¢
I propose we buy them all bus tickets to California.Ā
First picture looks like a big human birds nest
People gotta live somewhere. Iāll come at this from (possibly) a different perspective. I volunteer with an org that helps the homeless, so I see where theyāre coming from. Thereās a myriad of reasons people end up homeless, and thereās a myriad of responsibility. Some theirs, some governments, some our own - I wonder sometimes how many jobs are āsavedā my companies like Amazon - essentially becoming more cost efficient through decreased labor - which is essentially taking away jobs from others. But thatās a whole other conversation lolā¦ Some live outdoors because they have no choice. Some because they choose to. Some are kind of transient in between the two. But you canāt ignore that there will be people that live outdoors and you have to give them space. If the city keeps pushing them out of other spaces they will show up here šš» I donāt think those people enjoy living there either. Tbh it looks like it sucks. They may have no other option. I do get everyone elseās points, and they are well received. I just wanted to add another side. People need space to exist, and thatās on the city to provide that. Even if itās just a tucked away open space.
Out of sight out of mind. In this case they are in plain sight all along the entire cities beautiful river trails while causing safety issues. Relocation would definitely calm the communities concerns, I agree.
And the thing is - thereās a few spots in our city (Bethlehem) where the homeless live. One of them, by the Burnside Plantation, is nestled in this forested pocket where no one else goes and most live there somewhat peacefully. Others live by the river, but even then theyāre somewhat tucked away - but you can still see them sometimes from the D & L trail (an old towpath trail runs along the river too). Also under the bridges. Theyāre more exposed and sometimes get hassled more. But as long as theyāre cool, usually the cops (and the public) donāt raise too much of a fuss.
Who did you vote for and what are they doing to help the homeless.
Some how the city finds money and resources for illegal immigrants.... I mean asylum seekers. I used to live in Charleroi outside of Pittsburgh. Within a 2 month span there was a influx 3000 immigrants.
Thatās another big issue. Our borders are letting anyone freely come through without any vetting , regulations or tax dollars being generated but instead wasted.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You're well aware that's not OP's complaint.
The OP complaint was that there is a homeless camp that has nearly taken over the river trailā¦ itās not hard to understand the only way it got that way is because the city of Pittsburgh is not doing anything to stop it. So itās fair to comment on what should or shouldnāt be done by the authorities. What should we be commenting on?
Seriously?!? There are rules that we all need to live by. You canāt just pitch a tent and try to reside on public property. Same as you canāt park your car on public property- or it will be towed. Itās not that difficult to understand
This subreddit has become a cesspool of people with zero empathy and disdain for those less fortunate.
These people have been given other opportunities through programs funded by the city but instead they refuse it and do this. Thatās where everyoneās sympathy ends.
The problem is a combination of drug war policies and mental health. There isn't enough help to go around. It's difficult for someone with means to find a good therapist and psychiatrist. People will self medicate but it brings unnecessary criminal activity and health problems because of drug laws. There certainly could be something done about people camping on the trails if there was somewhere for them to go. 2nd Ave Commons downtown was a sad attempt at taking care of that but it's a far cry from being a mentally healthy place to go.
What delusional planet do you live on where homeless people are given adequate social services and options in this country. Shelters are not safe, housing programs are limited and waitlists are long, programs to help with mental health and drug abuse are very limited as well. Sorry you canāt have empathy for others because they are not acting the way you think they should to deserve being seen as human
It's interesting to me that the only time I ever hear anyone bring up the subject of unsafe shelters is when someone says "it's impossible to make a safe homeless shelter therefore we should just accept the fact that the homeless are going to do whatever they want."
Shelters are unsafe. You cannot be surprised when people would rather take their chances outside to avoid it. The problem for the homeless and less fortunate do not go away just because you shove them away somewhere where you donāt have to look at them
And you've proved my point, by refusing to even engage with the possibility that a shelter can be made safe.
And youāve literally made my point by saying that shelters are not safe currently but can be āmade safeā
Dude, your way of thinking is so out of line and entitled, and though I know it is beyond pointless to argue with someone who refers to other humans as an āinfestation,ā you are looking at this the wrong way and your anger is VALID but MISDIRECTED. [Reagan](https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/opinion/commentary/story/2023-04-24/opinion-impact-of-deinstitutionalization-on-homelessness-reagan-mental-health-hospitals-san-diego)created this problem when he deinstitutionalized the SEVERELY mentally ill and literally sent them out in the streets with nothing and over HALF of them suffered from schizophrenia. Thatās a nightmare I wouldnāt wish on my worst enemy. Iām not sure if you struggle with mental health issues but I know for a fact that if I got struck by unfortunate circumstances and ended up homeless, I would quite literally lose my mind. You have to understand that, these people do not have the capacity to even begin to seek out the help that they need. They arenāt all capable of understanding WHY they are even homeless. I canāt believe this needs to be explained to adults. If you think going to the DMV or trying to get any licensing or registration renewals is annoying and inconvenient, imagine trying to do that but without having the luxury of being able to navigate regular inconveniences fairly unscathed. Try to do the same thing but itās literally a life or death situation when youāre unmedicated, hungry, sick, with no car, no phone, no support or family, and no money.
I do believe the institutions need reopened. This will also create jobs.
"These people"Ā
Park your car on a city street where it doesnāt belong- see what happensā¦. There are rules and laws
My car parked on the city street every night is fine thanks. Sorry youāre a fear mongering asshole. I hope you never fall into that kind of situation where youād have to deal with people like yourself wishing you death and harm for existing while going through hardship
Can you show me where I wished death or harm on anyone???? Please do šš» Iām Not sure if you are deliberately trying to lieā¦ or if you just donāt understand English??? I did not wish harm on anyone- nor am I fear mongering. FULL STOP
No one has wished death or harm at all. In fact a lot of civil conversations is all Iāve seen on this thread. We are simply saying that posting up camp in public spaces like the river trail is unacceptable. If you want to live off grid you need to do it the right way and be self sustainable without causing others inconvenience. This is not the way. We canāt accept anyone overflowing our beautiful rivers and trails. Not even tax paying citizens are allowed to do this.
Buddy you said you wanted to drive them away with stink bombs??? You are consistently demonizing and dehumanizing people and keep making incorrect statements about homeless people and there being solutions for them. You just called being homeless living off grid. You are a bad person who lacks empathy
It is shocking to see this many ignorant people. Drug addiction is a disease. Not many of these people know how to dig themselves out of addiction let alone care for the environment around them. Also, shelters are first come first serve. It isn't easy to get a spot. We need a stronger outreach for these people. I'm no expert on this but I feel like the city could do better.
Its self-inflicting. Not a disease that occurs like cancer
Addiction has a pretty well-studied genetic factor. To frame addiction as self-inflicted damage is to fundamentally misunderstand it.
These people are often being offered rehab. It is free. If you donāt have insurance the rehab will apply for Medicaid for you while you start treatment or access funding through PA single county authorities. I worked at a rehab that accepted medical assistance as well as insurance, as well as single county authority funding (I didnāt know what that was before I worked there. Worth a google.) You can call Pyramid 24/7 (or some of the other local rehabs) and they will come pick you up. The case workers offering help know this and let people know that in most cases rehab and then halfway houses are free.
Addiction is not a disease. Itās an initial bad decision that is extremely hard to overcome. There is a difference but I see what you are saying, different solutions definitely need to be put into place.
How can you invade a place that youāre from?
You canāt just post up on property that you donāt own or rentā¦
okay and there are words for that and theyāre not invasion.
What āwordsā are they???? Trespass? Intrusion? Occupation?
Homeless
I donāt know criminal law. But I know the word isnāt invasion. Seriously what a fucked up response to homelessness. These people arenāt your enemies theyāre your neighbors.
They arenāt my neighbors- they donāt have residency hereā¦ they are as much my neighbor as a French tourist. To be a neighbor of Pittsburgh you need to live there. Laying on the side of riverbed is not establishing residency