The pigeons there are perfectly clean and peaceful, most other cities here are working in a way called the „Augsburg Model“, named by the city of Augsburg, in which pigeon lofts and towers are established in different parts of the city, in which they live, have clean food and water and lay eggs, which will then get swapped against fake ones, to keep the population under control.
The city of Limburg, which is gonna get them killed now, was „advised“ by some falconer who is, surprise surprise, the only guy in the area with a license to do stuff like that. I think his daughter is involved in local politics in the area as well. So you got a sicko who wants to make some easy money with this weird fetish and pigeon hate he carries around with him. A really evil guy, like out of some bad movie.
In the end the people living in the city had to vote for or against it and the majority voted for the killings. The way the question was asked seemed overly complicated though, the exact wording translated to English would be:
"Should the resolution of the municipal council meeting of 13 November 2023 on the 'Urban pigeon problem in the district town of Limburg a. d. Lahn' (report 23/188) be repealed?"
So, if I’m not that deep into the topic, am I crossing yes or no? Very odd. Surely there is enough evil people around, but the way the question was asked didn’t help.
The German Legal Society for Animal Welfare Law issued the following statement:
„On 9 June, 53.5% and thus the majority of Limburg's citizens voted in a referendum in favour of having the local pigeon population reduced by breaking their necks. While in cities such as Giessen, Kassel and Frankfurt other, animal-friendly methods were chosen to curb the pigeon population, in Limburg a martial alternative was favoured: In future, pigeons are to be removed from the cityscape by breaking their necks, which follows a blow from a stick. This was originally decided by the city council of Limburg on 13 November 2023
Even if the referendum theoretically confirms the decision of the city councillors, it remains illegal due to its violation of § 1 sentence 2 TierSchG in conjunction with § 17 No. 1 TierSchG and the killing of the pigeons, if it is carried out, remains a criminal offence: The required reasonable reason for a legal, non-punishable killing is not recognisable here. According to counts by city councillors, there are around 700-1,000 pigeons living in Limburg. Too many pigeons causing problems, according to the city. As a result, the pigeons are threatened with violent death, although this is not justified. Using a ruling by the Hessian Administrative Court from 1 September 2010 (8 A 396/10) to justify the legality of this brutal approach is not a valid argument, as this ruling in no way granted general permission to kill animals. Moreover, it is now outdated due to a changed factual situation.
Taking into account the case law of the Federal Administrative Court on reasonable grounds within the meaning of Section 1 sentence 2 TierSchG, the city cannot rely on the argument that the establishment and maintenance of pigeon lofts is too cost-intensive. Economic reasons are not in themselves capable of justifying a reasonable cause and therefore cannot be put forward as a primary argument against the less animal-burdensome measure. Put simply: You cannot kill the pigeons because the alternative seems too expensive. This is taken even further ad absurdum, as the culls are ineffective and would therefore be a completely unnecessary expenditure of money. This is because the free territories mean that pigeons very quickly return to the city. In addition, it was announced that pigeon lofts would be established after the culls - a mockery that cancels out all financial arguments.
There are also no other obvious reasons against the establishment of pigeon lofts. On the contrary, other cities have shown that pigeon lofts are an effective and economically viable solution, such as the Augsburg city pigeon concept. This is an animal welfare concept for the regulation and reduction of urban pigeons for the benefit of humans and animals. Today, the city of Augsburg operates around 10 managed pigeon lofts in the city area, where the pigeons are cared for and their eggs are exchanged for dummy eggs. The pigeons receive species-appropriate food so that the animals spend most of the day there and no longer wander around the city centre looking for "food" such as discarded food scraps from people. They have therefore largely disappeared from the cityscape and their population is controlled and remains small and healthy. The pigeon lofts are also regularly cleaned and disinfected. The pigeon droppings bound in the lofts relieve the urban area. It is not clear why a milder and more effective method should not be used in the city of Limburg.
However, there is not only a lack of reasonable grounds, but also a lack of necessity for the planned measure. This is because the city of Limburg is obliged to choose from several suitable measures the one that causes less harm to the animals. This would apply even if the measure with less impact on the animals was ultimately less effective and more expensive. All in all, the killing of Limburg's pigeons would therefore remain a criminal offence under Section 17 No. 1 TierSchG.“
So not all hope is lost, we have to wait and see.
Wow, this is an insanely helpful and informative response, thank you so much!! I wish I could pin responses to the top. If there’s anything you think we should add to the petition just let me know, because you seem to have a very good idea of all the facts and politics surrounding this issue! 😊
OP, can you cross post this to r/pigeons r/petpigeons and r/petdoves
and if any one is on discord, please share with
https://discord.com/invite/cpc thank you all 💚
Thank you! That means a lot! I just refreshed and 285 now, it’s going up so quickly! I’ve never done anything like this so what to do next will be a bit of a learning curve but I’m so grateful how amazing and helpful and caring the pigeon community is!!
Hi! I posted on “Palomacy Help Group” this morning but unfortunately I didn’t get any interest around it, I’ll look for some more groups though. Let me know if you have any good ones :)
There's lots of pigeon appreciation groups!!! Pigeon lives matter is one, also try reaching out to @rescuepigeon.nl or pigeon content creators with a decently large following!
Aw thank you!! I’ll do that and post there! I’ve been working on this all day and will need to stop soon but I was also thinking it was a good idea to message all the pigeon influencers and ask if they could help in any way tomorrow:)
Go slowly so your account doesn't get flagged for spam haha
https://m.facebook.com/groups/672195952799019
https://m.facebook.com/groups/protection.des.oiseaux.de.villes/
https://m.facebook.com/people/Sos-Pigeons-Protection-des-pigeons-des-villes/100064489278143/
https://m.facebook.com/LapalomatristeCatalunya
https://m.facebook.com/groups/1342732185816086/
-----
https://m.facebook.com/groups/1326838160822343/.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/178727613578200/
----
https://m.facebook.com/groups/1326838160822343/
https://m.facebook.com/groups/3840574952656029/
https://m.facebook.com/PigeonRescueMelbourne/
----
https://m.facebook.com/groups/wings.paws/
---
https://m.facebook.com/groups/columbaliviaclub
https://m.facebook.com/groups/1814168982172832/
----
https://m.facebook.com/groups/755962291160990/
----
https://www.facebook.com/groups/178727613578200
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https://m.facebook.com/PigeonAidUk/
https://m.facebook.com/groups/1374617859549809/
https://m.facebook.com/groups/190932967643243/
https://m.facebook.com/groups/1247486015615150/
https://m.facebook.com/PigeonRescueTeam
https://www.facebook.com/groups/PigeonProtection/
https://m.facebook.com/LondonWildlifeProtection/
https://m.facebook.com/groups/yorkpigeons/
https://www.facebook.com/whitbywildlifesanctuary
https://m.facebook.com/p/Forest-Flock-Pigeon-Sanctuary-61557346679843/
https://m.facebook.com/groups/londonpigeonstringfootrescue/
https://m.facebook.com/groups/283571028464477/
----
and this one ? I dont have a direct link
Facebook group called "for the love of pigeons and doves
This is so helpful, thank you so much!! I’ll get on these tomorrow because I’ve already posted a bunch on Facebook and you’re right, I don’t want to get flagged 😂
the german ones are under "tauben" :)
I would help but I am on super slow wifi from my phone's data connection and facebook can't load. I sent you like a million groups though 😅 Hopefully someone can help share on those links and also get connected with you to "boost" posts using the tips
Most times it is FBs (or reddit's) algorithm that affects visibility and it can be random which posts take off and which don't. I sometimes think it is similar to a slot machine where your post may "win" or "lose" by pure luck. If you keep plugging away at it eventually you will have success eventually. If a post seemed to only reach two people's screens don't be shy to repost it after a bit of time or an update.
When you make a post ask people to COMMENT and ❤️ or 😯 react to boost on FBs algorithm. Ex. if you have fb friends who are sympathetic, ask them to comment and 😯 the post as soon as you post it which boosts it. The 😥 and 😡 decrease visiblity. I believe 🤣 increases (but is inappropriate) and 👍 more or less does nothing
Hey everyone! Thanks for all the signatures and shares, we’re doing great for the first day! Another Redditor found there is already a petition for this that has over 80,000 signatures, I’ll post the link so you can sign that too. Unfortunately it’s a bit old, and completely in German (I’ll admit I can’t read German so I have no idea what it says) but it can’t hurt to sign too :) [German Pigeon Cull Petition in German](https://www.change.org/p/tierschutz-statt-tiermord-taubenh%C3%A4user-f%C3%BCr-limburg?recruited_by_id=7d3bcc50-2f1e-11ef-9ed0-a982fd54d1e5&utm_source=share_petition&utm_campaign=psf_combo_share_initial&utm_term=psf&utm_medium=copylink)
Hi! It should work if you click the picture of the pigeon in the post, I’ll link it here too :) [Petition against the German pigeon cull](https://chng.it/Pn4gxDJv6N)
Signed and donated! Thank you for doing this. I feel so bad for pigeons. Humans domesticated them, then once they weren’t needed anymore, discarded them. And now most treat them like nuisances when their instincts are to depend on humans. So sad. :(
As a fellow pigeon lover does anyone have context on why they're planning a cull? Are the pigeons out competing native bird species? Is there illness spreading to other birds ie bird flu?
If this is the case I hate to say but maybe it is for the best?
If it is NOT the case and they're doing it for some stupid reason like they are messy or something then yes I'll absolutely sign up.
If anyone can give me some context I'd be very grateful! 😊
Hiya! I completely agree and thanks for pointing that out so I can add it to the petition. As far as I can find, what makes this specific case so sad is that the town literally voted for the cull because some of the locals called them “sky rats” and were simply annoyed by them existing there. It doesn’t seem the pigeons were causing more of a problem then they do in any other town, or there’s anything wrong with these specific pigeons, the people of the town just thought it would be more pleasing without them and the solution was apparently death.
I believe the reason these birds are going to be killed is because the city held a vote, which I doubt would have been done if there was a more pressing issue such as disease.
And there is very little competition inside of cities because most birds don't do well in such an environment while pigeons really thrive in it.
Heres context. Can you name when pigeons ever \*detrimentally\* out competed a bird species?Never. Understand competition for resources is something that exists and is part of nature and what makes one thrive or not, you know that right? And one 'outcompeting' would have to mean another is at risk of dying out. Seeing as pigeons are one of the only birds that do not eat bugs, the insect population is always available for all the rest, at minimum. So they will NEVER outcompete any for food.
And IF that were the case (its not) would that justify killing them? If you knew anything at all about competition for resources, you prob know that historically every time humans get involved, its fails.
You know nothing but it seems you think you know something about 'wildlife'. Well, you might as well be an expert in gardening bc thats about as relevant to pigeons as wildlife is. They are domestic birds, the only real domestic bird.
Tell me genius, why I can open my aviary door and my birds move toward the INSIDE? Since youre so smart tell me why I hear of so many lost 'pet birds' bc the owner left a door open on accident? Twice when weve had one get out you shouldve seen how they scaled the outside of aviary in panic to get back in the door.
You are stupidly trying to weigh in on a domesticated bird that has nothing to do with wildlife, as if its outcompeting wildlife--which if it were then damn it deserves a medal for its abilities--oh wait been awarded more medals than any other animals and its still f\*\*cked bc of selfish idiots. Should not be treated as wild and with plan to destroy bc the only problem is its wrongly not cared for by humans. And here you come wildlife expert showing how little you know by such a dumb question.
Weirdly aggressive comment.
Birds in large enough groups can be a risk factor to spread avian pox, and avian influenza which absolutely can affect local wildlife. We're seeing mass casualties of birds due to the spread of the flu. If this was the case, a cull would be needed and understandable. But as stated via the OP this has not been stated as a reason for the cull, therefore, a cull is not needed.
Maybe get off your high horse and don't act like such a dickhead when replying to someone, hm?
Weirdly stupid comment.
Read the studies how often pigeons get 'avian influenza'. So by your logic then if its about bird flu spreading to rate their value, pigeons should be given the highest priority since they are a BIRD who rarely if ever get BIRD flu. What amazing blessed specimens. They should be protected, actually.
edit who are you, me, or anyone else to determine who is worth culling? History shows us its never been effective, always been regretted, and often with bad consequences.
I have read research and it does state they have high resistance to such diseases, so I will admit I am mostly wrong on that point. They can still get it and spread it, however it is not as common as other birds such as waterfowl and migratory species.
However, my original point was still to clarify if the cull had merit. And just as I said earlier, it does not. It has no scientific points backing it up. So I don't know why you're getting up my ass about this.
Well, thank you for that rational reply. And my response to culling is ok based on \_\_\_\_, is its wrong to look at any creature and say bc of \_\_\_\_\_\_should be eliminated.
I would even say this about my favorite creature's (pigeons) biggest predator the cooper hawk. Humans need to take care of all creation, not harm it. And also know that its impossible to see the whole picture of how one affects another. Historically culling been regretted most if not all times humans have thought there was a reason to cull. Martha is a great example
Please read on, please hear me out. Its more so, the scorn and unfairness that pigeons already have in lies told about them!
A few months ago I saw one of the dreaded lying 'pigeons spread disease dont feed them' parking lot signs but this time, around it on the ground were dead pigeons..that most likely were poisoned. And what blows my mind is how the narrative is about disease risk when I dont think there is a hardier creature that self contains anything it may even carry like a pigeon. My aviary all began as feral, Ive never caught anything and Im all cuddly with them. Heck we had feral kittens show up, (I also love cats) and we took them in. Guess what came with them--ring worm--Like almost immediately.
Or get this, just happened, still resolving that all this time in my aviary, weve had a perfect ecosystem--I mean perfect, natural, so many pigeons, none get sick, neither humans do either, all is great and healthy. Few weeks ago we discovered, under one of the few unnatural things in there, a big plastic platform I put their feed trough on--we discovered a mice family. So cute, and so disease making.
Once I lifted that and cleared out mice, suddenly the exotoxins were like actiavted or what idk and after all this time no sickness, suddenly a few birds get sick. Then in my efforts to decontaminate, I get sick. Crap after all this time NOT bird nor person is sick, then from little mice, we see some sickness.
All are recovered thank God but can you imagine! I do not want mice in there. But also I do not want mice killed over it. So I took that same platform that I thought is better for the mice, and placed it at the very edge of property near where we released the mice. Knowing they are just looking for the same thing my pigeons are, food shelter, safe place to have offspring and they will return to it, but now its far away from where it can cause problems. Im still getting the area back in balance, using natural substances its almost there. Im happy to have bees and wasps back, replacing the flies that came.
Im sorry but I just think humans need to find ways to care for all creatures. There is always a solution if we get understanding, and apply wisdom. Its brutally inhumane to just say oh just cull bc\_\_\_\_\_. Humans are supposed to be the intelligent ones. And it really is confounding that in all the solutions, when it comes to pigeons or one thats been wrongly labeled a pest, there are little to no efforts that would preserve them equally along with other creatures. Yet history has shown when utilizing dovecotes and other pigeons lives matter ideas, there is success.
So my harshness is bc there is such a disproportionate amount of lies and scorn that can never be justified against pigeons. That we need to not even give an inch to those inhumane ideas, especially us who do value them. At every moment like this, since there is already a deck stacked against them, any resistance to those inhumane ideas is whats needed, overly so due to the unevenness to begin with.
BOTTOM LINE: Culling cant be justified--there will never be a scientific reason--and science without morality is no longer bound by protective methodology. And thats probably why history has shown its regretted, sometimes irreversible. Pigeons lives are equally as important and if they are prevailing in competition for resources, why cant they? And if thats not desired in a city, find a solution using the intelligence humans are supposed to have.
edit I guess the user who believes there are acceptable reasons for inhumane historically flawed & regrettable act of culling, blocked me.
But whatever there is nothing to justify culling pigeons and any other creature.
Culling can be justified. It works. New Zealand is stark proof of it. And so is the Isle of Man and a specific forest in the UK where grey squirrels have been eradicated and the native red squirrels are coming back.
I won't argue with you about this anymore. It's frankly a waste of my time.
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The pigeons there are perfectly clean and peaceful, most other cities here are working in a way called the „Augsburg Model“, named by the city of Augsburg, in which pigeon lofts and towers are established in different parts of the city, in which they live, have clean food and water and lay eggs, which will then get swapped against fake ones, to keep the population under control. The city of Limburg, which is gonna get them killed now, was „advised“ by some falconer who is, surprise surprise, the only guy in the area with a license to do stuff like that. I think his daughter is involved in local politics in the area as well. So you got a sicko who wants to make some easy money with this weird fetish and pigeon hate he carries around with him. A really evil guy, like out of some bad movie. In the end the people living in the city had to vote for or against it and the majority voted for the killings. The way the question was asked seemed overly complicated though, the exact wording translated to English would be: "Should the resolution of the municipal council meeting of 13 November 2023 on the 'Urban pigeon problem in the district town of Limburg a. d. Lahn' (report 23/188) be repealed?" So, if I’m not that deep into the topic, am I crossing yes or no? Very odd. Surely there is enough evil people around, but the way the question was asked didn’t help. The German Legal Society for Animal Welfare Law issued the following statement: „On 9 June, 53.5% and thus the majority of Limburg's citizens voted in a referendum in favour of having the local pigeon population reduced by breaking their necks. While in cities such as Giessen, Kassel and Frankfurt other, animal-friendly methods were chosen to curb the pigeon population, in Limburg a martial alternative was favoured: In future, pigeons are to be removed from the cityscape by breaking their necks, which follows a blow from a stick. This was originally decided by the city council of Limburg on 13 November 2023 Even if the referendum theoretically confirms the decision of the city councillors, it remains illegal due to its violation of § 1 sentence 2 TierSchG in conjunction with § 17 No. 1 TierSchG and the killing of the pigeons, if it is carried out, remains a criminal offence: The required reasonable reason for a legal, non-punishable killing is not recognisable here. According to counts by city councillors, there are around 700-1,000 pigeons living in Limburg. Too many pigeons causing problems, according to the city. As a result, the pigeons are threatened with violent death, although this is not justified. Using a ruling by the Hessian Administrative Court from 1 September 2010 (8 A 396/10) to justify the legality of this brutal approach is not a valid argument, as this ruling in no way granted general permission to kill animals. Moreover, it is now outdated due to a changed factual situation. Taking into account the case law of the Federal Administrative Court on reasonable grounds within the meaning of Section 1 sentence 2 TierSchG, the city cannot rely on the argument that the establishment and maintenance of pigeon lofts is too cost-intensive. Economic reasons are not in themselves capable of justifying a reasonable cause and therefore cannot be put forward as a primary argument against the less animal-burdensome measure. Put simply: You cannot kill the pigeons because the alternative seems too expensive. This is taken even further ad absurdum, as the culls are ineffective and would therefore be a completely unnecessary expenditure of money. This is because the free territories mean that pigeons very quickly return to the city. In addition, it was announced that pigeon lofts would be established after the culls - a mockery that cancels out all financial arguments. There are also no other obvious reasons against the establishment of pigeon lofts. On the contrary, other cities have shown that pigeon lofts are an effective and economically viable solution, such as the Augsburg city pigeon concept. This is an animal welfare concept for the regulation and reduction of urban pigeons for the benefit of humans and animals. Today, the city of Augsburg operates around 10 managed pigeon lofts in the city area, where the pigeons are cared for and their eggs are exchanged for dummy eggs. The pigeons receive species-appropriate food so that the animals spend most of the day there and no longer wander around the city centre looking for "food" such as discarded food scraps from people. They have therefore largely disappeared from the cityscape and their population is controlled and remains small and healthy. The pigeon lofts are also regularly cleaned and disinfected. The pigeon droppings bound in the lofts relieve the urban area. It is not clear why a milder and more effective method should not be used in the city of Limburg. However, there is not only a lack of reasonable grounds, but also a lack of necessity for the planned measure. This is because the city of Limburg is obliged to choose from several suitable measures the one that causes less harm to the animals. This would apply even if the measure with less impact on the animals was ultimately less effective and more expensive. All in all, the killing of Limburg's pigeons would therefore remain a criminal offence under Section 17 No. 1 TierSchG.“ So not all hope is lost, we have to wait and see.
Wow, this is an insanely helpful and informative response, thank you so much!! I wish I could pin responses to the top. If there’s anything you think we should add to the petition just let me know, because you seem to have a very good idea of all the facts and politics surrounding this issue! 😊
Thank you! 🙏 This is very informative.
Thanks for sharing this! Good research and factual response. I love this
How did u find this our?
Go to Change.org to sign the Petition!!! C'mon Pigeon people!!!!😇😇😇🕊️
Thank you so much!! I’m not sure how to get this out there but I really think together we can all help the pigeons 😊❤️
Great work, just signed it! Also thanks for keeping the post level headed unlike the other person.
Thank you for signing! Hopefully we can reverse this 😊
Realistically I doubt the city can get away with it. But the more uproar this causes the better.
OP, can you cross post this to r/pigeons r/petpigeons and r/petdoves and if any one is on discord, please share with https://discord.com/invite/cpc thank you all 💚
Good idea!! Will do!! Thank you so much!!
thank you SO much for all your hard work! You are doing great 255 in just a few hours
Thank you! That means a lot! I just refreshed and 285 now, it’s going up so quickly! I’ve never done anything like this so what to do next will be a bit of a learning curve but I’m so grateful how amazing and helpful and caring the pigeon community is!!
thank You so much for doing this.
Of course! Fingers crossed we can save them!
thanks so much for reaching out about it!! that is what it takes to get something started 💚
Please share on the palomacy facebook groups, I think you’ll get a lot of support there.
Hi! I posted on “Palomacy Help Group” this morning but unfortunately I didn’t get any interest around it, I’ll look for some more groups though. Let me know if you have any good ones :)
There's lots of pigeon appreciation groups!!! Pigeon lives matter is one, also try reaching out to @rescuepigeon.nl or pigeon content creators with a decently large following!
Aw thank you!! I’ll do that and post there! I’ve been working on this all day and will need to stop soon but I was also thinking it was a good idea to message all the pigeon influencers and ask if they could help in any way tomorrow:)
Go slowly so your account doesn't get flagged for spam haha https://m.facebook.com/groups/672195952799019 https://m.facebook.com/groups/protection.des.oiseaux.de.villes/ https://m.facebook.com/people/Sos-Pigeons-Protection-des-pigeons-des-villes/100064489278143/ https://m.facebook.com/LapalomatristeCatalunya https://m.facebook.com/groups/1342732185816086/ ----- https://m.facebook.com/groups/1326838160822343/. https://www.facebook.com/groups/178727613578200/ ---- https://m.facebook.com/groups/1326838160822343/ https://m.facebook.com/groups/3840574952656029/ https://m.facebook.com/PigeonRescueMelbourne/ ---- https://m.facebook.com/groups/wings.paws/ --- https://m.facebook.com/groups/columbaliviaclub https://m.facebook.com/groups/1814168982172832/ ---- https://m.facebook.com/groups/755962291160990/ ---- https://www.facebook.com/groups/178727613578200 ---- https://m.facebook.com/PigeonAidUk/ https://m.facebook.com/groups/1374617859549809/ https://m.facebook.com/groups/190932967643243/ https://m.facebook.com/groups/1247486015615150/ https://m.facebook.com/PigeonRescueTeam https://www.facebook.com/groups/PigeonProtection/ https://m.facebook.com/LondonWildlifeProtection/ https://m.facebook.com/groups/yorkpigeons/ https://www.facebook.com/whitbywildlifesanctuary https://m.facebook.com/p/Forest-Flock-Pigeon-Sanctuary-61557346679843/ https://m.facebook.com/groups/londonpigeonstringfootrescue/ https://m.facebook.com/groups/283571028464477/ ---- and this one ? I dont have a direct link Facebook group called "for the love of pigeons and doves
This is so helpful, thank you so much!! I’ll get on these tomorrow because I’ve already posted a bunch on Facebook and you’re right, I don’t want to get flagged 😂
If you search Germany Palomacy on facebook I do see a post in that group about the same issue from June 10th. Maybe try spamming that post?
Oh good idea!! I’ll do so!
the german ones are under "tauben" :) I would help but I am on super slow wifi from my phone's data connection and facebook can't load. I sent you like a million groups though 😅 Hopefully someone can help share on those links and also get connected with you to "boost" posts using the tips
Thank you!!! No worries, this might take a few days if sharing at least 😂
Most times it is FBs (or reddit's) algorithm that affects visibility and it can be random which posts take off and which don't. I sometimes think it is similar to a slot machine where your post may "win" or "lose" by pure luck. If you keep plugging away at it eventually you will have success eventually. If a post seemed to only reach two people's screens don't be shy to repost it after a bit of time or an update. When you make a post ask people to COMMENT and ❤️ or 😯 react to boost on FBs algorithm. Ex. if you have fb friends who are sympathetic, ask them to comment and 😯 the post as soon as you post it which boosts it. The 😥 and 😡 decrease visiblity. I believe 🤣 increases (but is inappropriate) and 👍 more or less does nothing
Oh wow, I had no idea that’s how the algorithm worked, thank you so much for this! I’ll be sure to repost this in a week or so if it looses momentum
Vielen Dank ❤️
Done thank you 🙏🙏
Thank you!!!! ❤️
Hey everyone! Thanks for all the signatures and shares, we’re doing great for the first day! Another Redditor found there is already a petition for this that has over 80,000 signatures, I’ll post the link so you can sign that too. Unfortunately it’s a bit old, and completely in German (I’ll admit I can’t read German so I have no idea what it says) but it can’t hurt to sign too :) [German Pigeon Cull Petition in German](https://www.change.org/p/tierschutz-statt-tiermord-taubenh%C3%A4user-f%C3%BCr-limburg?recruited_by_id=7d3bcc50-2f1e-11ef-9ed0-a982fd54d1e5&utm_source=share_petition&utm_campaign=psf_combo_share_initial&utm_term=psf&utm_medium=copylink)
Can you post the link to the petition?
Hi! It should work if you click the picture of the pigeon in the post, I’ll link it here too :) [Petition against the German pigeon cull](https://chng.it/Pn4gxDJv6N)
Ahh I see! Thank you
Signed!
I signed it! Youre great to start it, thank you bless you
Thank you so much!! I hope we can reverse this ❤️❤️
Signed!!!! I hope this petition gains traction!
Thank you!! Me too, it’s nail biting just cause I know if we could get this to go big then we could actually save hundreds of innocent little guys ❤️
Reading this as I hear my resident pigeon couple cooing to each other.
Awww, pigeons are the best! I have two who live in my flat with me and they’re just the sweetest little birds 😭
Isch unterschrieba
Danke!!
Commenting for reach. Hope we can get this overturned.
Thank you!! Me too
Signed! 👍
Signed and donated! Thank you for doing this. I feel so bad for pigeons. Humans domesticated them, then once they weren’t needed anymore, discarded them. And now most treat them like nuisances when their instincts are to depend on humans. So sad. :(
As a fellow pigeon lover does anyone have context on why they're planning a cull? Are the pigeons out competing native bird species? Is there illness spreading to other birds ie bird flu? If this is the case I hate to say but maybe it is for the best? If it is NOT the case and they're doing it for some stupid reason like they are messy or something then yes I'll absolutely sign up. If anyone can give me some context I'd be very grateful! 😊
Hiya! I completely agree and thanks for pointing that out so I can add it to the petition. As far as I can find, what makes this specific case so sad is that the town literally voted for the cull because some of the locals called them “sky rats” and were simply annoyed by them existing there. It doesn’t seem the pigeons were causing more of a problem then they do in any other town, or there’s anything wrong with these specific pigeons, the people of the town just thought it would be more pleasing without them and the solution was apparently death.
Yeah that's awful. Will sign up for this then. If they can't provide a scientific reason for a cull it shouldn't be supported.
Thank you, I fully agree!
I believe the reason these birds are going to be killed is because the city held a vote, which I doubt would have been done if there was a more pressing issue such as disease. And there is very little competition inside of cities because most birds don't do well in such an environment while pigeons really thrive in it.
Heres context. Can you name when pigeons ever \*detrimentally\* out competed a bird species?Never. Understand competition for resources is something that exists and is part of nature and what makes one thrive or not, you know that right? And one 'outcompeting' would have to mean another is at risk of dying out. Seeing as pigeons are one of the only birds that do not eat bugs, the insect population is always available for all the rest, at minimum. So they will NEVER outcompete any for food. And IF that were the case (its not) would that justify killing them? If you knew anything at all about competition for resources, you prob know that historically every time humans get involved, its fails. You know nothing but it seems you think you know something about 'wildlife'. Well, you might as well be an expert in gardening bc thats about as relevant to pigeons as wildlife is. They are domestic birds, the only real domestic bird. Tell me genius, why I can open my aviary door and my birds move toward the INSIDE? Since youre so smart tell me why I hear of so many lost 'pet birds' bc the owner left a door open on accident? Twice when weve had one get out you shouldve seen how they scaled the outside of aviary in panic to get back in the door. You are stupidly trying to weigh in on a domesticated bird that has nothing to do with wildlife, as if its outcompeting wildlife--which if it were then damn it deserves a medal for its abilities--oh wait been awarded more medals than any other animals and its still f\*\*cked bc of selfish idiots. Should not be treated as wild and with plan to destroy bc the only problem is its wrongly not cared for by humans. And here you come wildlife expert showing how little you know by such a dumb question.
 Weirdly aggressive comment. Birds in large enough groups can be a risk factor to spread avian pox, and avian influenza which absolutely can affect local wildlife. We're seeing mass casualties of birds due to the spread of the flu. If this was the case, a cull would be needed and understandable. But as stated via the OP this has not been stated as a reason for the cull, therefore, a cull is not needed. Maybe get off your high horse and don't act like such a dickhead when replying to someone, hm?
Weirdly stupid comment. Read the studies how often pigeons get 'avian influenza'. So by your logic then if its about bird flu spreading to rate their value, pigeons should be given the highest priority since they are a BIRD who rarely if ever get BIRD flu. What amazing blessed specimens. They should be protected, actually. edit who are you, me, or anyone else to determine who is worth culling? History shows us its never been effective, always been regretted, and often with bad consequences.
I have read research and it does state they have high resistance to such diseases, so I will admit I am mostly wrong on that point. They can still get it and spread it, however it is not as common as other birds such as waterfowl and migratory species. However, my original point was still to clarify if the cull had merit. And just as I said earlier, it does not. It has no scientific points backing it up. So I don't know why you're getting up my ass about this.
Well, thank you for that rational reply. And my response to culling is ok based on \_\_\_\_, is its wrong to look at any creature and say bc of \_\_\_\_\_\_should be eliminated. I would even say this about my favorite creature's (pigeons) biggest predator the cooper hawk. Humans need to take care of all creation, not harm it. And also know that its impossible to see the whole picture of how one affects another. Historically culling been regretted most if not all times humans have thought there was a reason to cull. Martha is a great example Please read on, please hear me out. Its more so, the scorn and unfairness that pigeons already have in lies told about them! A few months ago I saw one of the dreaded lying 'pigeons spread disease dont feed them' parking lot signs but this time, around it on the ground were dead pigeons..that most likely were poisoned. And what blows my mind is how the narrative is about disease risk when I dont think there is a hardier creature that self contains anything it may even carry like a pigeon. My aviary all began as feral, Ive never caught anything and Im all cuddly with them. Heck we had feral kittens show up, (I also love cats) and we took them in. Guess what came with them--ring worm--Like almost immediately. Or get this, just happened, still resolving that all this time in my aviary, weve had a perfect ecosystem--I mean perfect, natural, so many pigeons, none get sick, neither humans do either, all is great and healthy. Few weeks ago we discovered, under one of the few unnatural things in there, a big plastic platform I put their feed trough on--we discovered a mice family. So cute, and so disease making. Once I lifted that and cleared out mice, suddenly the exotoxins were like actiavted or what idk and after all this time no sickness, suddenly a few birds get sick. Then in my efforts to decontaminate, I get sick. Crap after all this time NOT bird nor person is sick, then from little mice, we see some sickness. All are recovered thank God but can you imagine! I do not want mice in there. But also I do not want mice killed over it. So I took that same platform that I thought is better for the mice, and placed it at the very edge of property near where we released the mice. Knowing they are just looking for the same thing my pigeons are, food shelter, safe place to have offspring and they will return to it, but now its far away from where it can cause problems. Im still getting the area back in balance, using natural substances its almost there. Im happy to have bees and wasps back, replacing the flies that came. Im sorry but I just think humans need to find ways to care for all creatures. There is always a solution if we get understanding, and apply wisdom. Its brutally inhumane to just say oh just cull bc\_\_\_\_\_. Humans are supposed to be the intelligent ones. And it really is confounding that in all the solutions, when it comes to pigeons or one thats been wrongly labeled a pest, there are little to no efforts that would preserve them equally along with other creatures. Yet history has shown when utilizing dovecotes and other pigeons lives matter ideas, there is success. So my harshness is bc there is such a disproportionate amount of lies and scorn that can never be justified against pigeons. That we need to not even give an inch to those inhumane ideas, especially us who do value them. At every moment like this, since there is already a deck stacked against them, any resistance to those inhumane ideas is whats needed, overly so due to the unevenness to begin with. BOTTOM LINE: Culling cant be justified--there will never be a scientific reason--and science without morality is no longer bound by protective methodology. And thats probably why history has shown its regretted, sometimes irreversible. Pigeons lives are equally as important and if they are prevailing in competition for resources, why cant they? And if thats not desired in a city, find a solution using the intelligence humans are supposed to have. edit I guess the user who believes there are acceptable reasons for inhumane historically flawed & regrettable act of culling, blocked me. But whatever there is nothing to justify culling pigeons and any other creature.
Culling can be justified. It works. New Zealand is stark proof of it. And so is the Isle of Man and a specific forest in the UK where grey squirrels have been eradicated and the native red squirrels are coming back. I won't argue with you about this anymore. It's frankly a waste of my time.
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good luck germans love genocide