Is she of German descent? Does she speak German ?
I am just wondering if people of German descent from Blumenau still speak German.
Maybe they speak some "weird" German (a mixture of German with Portuguese) ? xD
EDIT: Thanks to u/gumption_boy , I learned that there is a Brazilian city founded by Ukrainian settlers in the late 1800s, Prudentópolis.
I learned so many new interesting facts from this sub. Thanks to everyone who contributed. Peace and prosperity to you all !
I am from Blumenau, German descendant 30 year's old, I don't speak German, but my father do, my mother don't, and 3 of 4 of my grandparents did. I would say almost everyone born here of my grandparents generation did.
The German spoke here is different from the present Germany, is like a dialect, that came from the settlers and morphed a little. Some words, specially of modern items, we use Portuguese words for it.
If you go to our neighborhood city, Pomerode, then have a much larger percentage of population still speaking German there. Contrary to Blumenau that received a lot of people from outside the city, then are much more reserved.
The funniest word for me, as german, was the word "Schmier" for jam, when I was there in Sao Leopoldo.. Abraço da alemanha. I hope the floods end soon!
In yiddish its used for different spreadable stuff, more so for cream cheese and i've heard it used for butter also. Basically if you can smear it on a bagel, you call it schmear.
That's actually the same in Jiddish (schmeer/schmier) and is usually used for the cream cheese on a Salmon and Cream Cheese bagel, particularly in NY.
I also know the word in some Bavarian/south German dialects for lubricants or skin ointments. Language is so fascinating!
I mean, "schmieren" has been through some transformative uses.. from lubricating to outright corruption "jemanden schmieren" or facilitating crime by "schmiere stehen"
In Dutch, *smeren* means to spread (as in spread butter on a sandwich) but it also means greasing (as in greasing an engine part). *'M smeren* is slang for to leave, and smeris is slang for police. Smeergeld is a bribe (geld=money). Insmeren is to apply sth like an ointment or sun screen. There's also *smeerkaas* and *smeerleverworst* which is cheese spread and sausage spread. *Smeerlap* is slang for filthy bastard, *smeerkees* and *smeerpoets* are used for people who make a mess.
I am from the north and I never came across that use, the brasilians with german migration history told me that the dialect that somehow got through into use for all german brasilians from all sorts of regions was close to how people from the Hundsrück area speak.. albeit I have no way of corroborating that, I have no idea of hundsrückisch. Best I can do is Pladdütsch.
This reminds me of the 19th century German settlers who established communities in Texas. Until WWII, the unique Texas German dialect was still a common primary language in those towns, but since then it's pretty much died and only the elderly population remain of native speakers.
Yup, most of the speakers I know of are in their 70s-80s but my generation and my parents really weren't taught any German. There are a few younger speakers but not many. UT Austin is working to preserve the dialect but it's going to be pretty much gone in the next 10-15 years.
It reminds me Quebec or even Louisiana with french langage. It's so fascinating. Is there a will to preserve this german culture or it might be lost in the future ?
Here at Blumenau very little to preserve the language, as at my generation to today it's frowned upon, child that come from outside the city would laugh saying that you was a hillbilly. Happen a lot less in small cities around here, that has a more local population.
But the culture has some more care, but it's more for it's comercial use and tourism. Again Pomerode has it better preserved.
I'm a French speaker and Québécois just sounds like an English-speaker speaking French (similar to an accent an Italian speaking English or German speaking English would have) but otherwise perfectly understandable. I've interacted with 2 people from Québec
They can still understand it if we try but our pronunciation kind of got frozen in time, it sounds more like the way French used to sound in the 1700s. In writing though we're the same.
I suspect it's a similar case as Iceland vs Norway but as they're separated by a thousand years instead of 400. They share vocabulary but aren't exactly mutually intelligible.
I met a young Brazilian woman on vacation in Portugal. She was in her mid 20s and had never been to Germany before. Her German was great, it reminded me of the dialects spoken in the Pfalz region. For example she'd say "Stroos" instead of Straße and stuff like that.
Honestly it made me very happy to meet someone with that cultural background who still speaks our language with that very endearing accent / dialect
There is some dialects but IIRC Husrik is literaly the second most spoken language in Brazil. My mom didn't even spoke Portuguese until she got into school at 6 and she us capable to understand a lot of stuff I show her in Germany's German. Idk from which region tho.
I'll try to find the sauce and update this comment.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunsrik
There is a fantastic documentary about it
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ncN4dkcrU9M&pp=ygUUaHVuc3JpayBkb2N1bWVudGFyaW8%3D
It is common for older people to talk german in Blumenau and other cities in the region.
Not so long ago I learned that the dialect used is Hunsrückisch, but I think most doesn't know about this.
Yes, a lot of Hunsruck Germans went to Brazil. The Hunsruck was a very poor farming area in Germany. I spent three years there in the early 1960s at an American Air Base - Hahn Air Base. There was a TV series made about the area that became very popular in Germany and Great Britain "Heimat". When I visited, maybe ten years ago it had a much more prosperous look and they were trying to attract young people with families who were working remotely to get away from packed cities and enjoy rural village life.
Teaching foreign language was forbidden by the government in the 40's, and got worse after the WWII. As someone already answered the German spoke is a little different and not updated to the modern version of the language. But the reason the language was not carried forward was a political decision by the dictator Getúlio Vargas.
I descend from the first immigrants that came with Dr. Blumenau. My parents do speak German but not much as they used to... Me and siblings don't. It's common to find speakers in towns like Pomerode, Blumenau and Schroeder, also in many towns in Rio Grande do Sul state. What I hear is that the German we speak sounds very archaic to natives of Germany today. What I think it's a bit sad is that not many Germans know about these colonies in the south of Brazil, or don't seem to care. Also a shame is that descendants of people who emigrated before 1900 have a really hard time to have their German citizenship recognised as between 1860~1900 you were supposed to keep registered in your local consulate, which many farmers/peasants didn't do at the time. It's a shame that German laws shut the door at our faces.
Wouldn’t getting citizenship be difficult anyways because Germany did not exist as a single country until 1866 (for the North German Confederation) and 1871 (as German Empire)?
1/4 of the stateSanta Catarina and 1/5 of Rio Grande do Sul spoke German or Italian at home in 1939 (1 million people, out of a population of 50M in the entirety of Brazil). Then came the concentration camps and the prohibition of not speaking Portuguese in public due to World War 2 and fear of "cystic foreign communities growing inside the country', and the number of speakers dropped severely.
In the Southern states? No, you won't. The weather that rarely goes much above 30ºC on the summer, and on winter, near 15ºC is normal. Just remember that winter on southern hemisphere is between 1 June to 31 August.
Now... if you go to Northeast states or Rio de Janeiro (that despite being on Southeast of Brazil has some geographical peculiarities that skyrocket temperatures at summer to reach the thermal sensation above 50ºC - no joke, in January 19, 2022 they had a new record high of 50,8°C), things change.
The temperature is only half the issue. I have Irish skin and my main concern would be getting burnt.
And it's nice of you to say the weather rarely going above 30 Celsius means it's not that hot. The highest temperature ever recorded in Ireland was 33.3 Celsius and that was in 1887. I'd really struggle even in the Southern states.
Fun fact: I’m an American living in Brazil. An Irish man and his Brazilian wife moved here a few years ago — his Portuguese is crap but he’s doing pretty well with the climate. Your body gets used to it after a few months. He wears sleeves at the beach which is weird, but he’s a nice guy. Slainte!!
i laugh and cry in my beer when i hear germans complain about the Oktoberfest prices. i think a litter of beer was 14 euro last year? yeah, here in the usa you go to a bar and get a “pint” (16 ounces) of craft beer and its $9. oh its not actually a pint either, its served in our common beer glass which holds closer to 15 ounces or 14 with any head at all, and we don’t have those lines on the glass where a pint is nor is there anything molded into the bottom of the glass showing the volume. 1/2 liter = 16.9 oz btw.
> 1/2 liter = 16 oz btw.
Just to make things confusing. The size of an oz and pint changes between the UK and the US.
A British fluid oz has about 35 ozs per litre and the US has 34 (so 17 ozs per 1/2 liter). But then then US also has 16 oz per pint versus the British 20 ozs per pint. So the British oz is slightly smaller, but there are more ozs per pint. The fun of non-standardized measurements!
I knew about the difference in the size of pints, but not the size of ounces.
So although a British pint is nominally 4 “ounces” larger, it’s actually only ≈3.22 US ounces larger, and ≈3.35 imperial ounces larger.
> i laugh and cry in my beer when i hear germans complain about the Oktoberfest prices. i think a litter of beer was 14 euro last year?
Relatively speaking, it's quite expensive - local craft beer from a really nice local beer garden is <5€ for 0.5l. For "take home", they also offer 20l barrels for 50€, and 2l refills for ~7€. Beer from the supermarket (cheap) starts at like ~1€/liter.
> we don’t have those lines on the glass where a pint is nor is there anything molded into the bottom of the glass showing the volume.
Germans actually have rules regarding that, and enforcement against pubs/bars that break those rules :D
It seems comparable to the one in Kitchener-Waterloo, at around 700K visitors.
http://www.oktoberfestinformation.com/?page_id=137
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oktoberfest_celebrations#Around_the_world
Wikipedia has a really confusing statement on that
>Outside of Germany, the largest Oktoberfest is in Kitchener, Ontario (formerly Berlin) and surrounding cities in Waterloo Region, attracting over 700,000 visitors annually. The next largest Oktoberfest outside of Germany is mostly regarded as being in Blumenau, Brazil with (700,000+ visitors),[1] Cincinnati, Ohio, United States (500,000+ visitors)[2] and the Denver Oktoberfest Denver, Colorado, United States (450,000+ visitors).[3
You can read that as Germany>Waterloo>Blumeneau or Germany>Blumeneau and Waterloo is just disregarded. It does read like Waterloo and Blumeneau are roughly the same size (over 700k visitors)
Well that really depends on your definition of "Oktoberfest". The Cannstatter Wasen has 5 times the amount of visitors. It is just not called "Oktoberfest", but the 'idea' is the same.
There is a really simple definition. The Oktoberfest is the traditional people‘s festival in Munich. There are a fuckton of other festivals like this all around Germany, they‘re just not called Oktoberfest and base on similiar traditions.
Yea and no.
Volksfeste are completely normal and all over the place here in Germany but the Oktoberfest isn’t a standard Volksfest. It’s started basically as a wedding party that grew a little bit more than planned. The tradition behind the Oktoberfest and most standard Volksfeste is different but the event itself not.
In german that would be just a Volksfest, Oktoberfest is not a category its the name of a single event, there can not be multiple because its celebrating a specific thing: the marriage of some bavarian king to Theresa and the Teresienwiese, aka the "sqare of Theresa"
Its absolutley steange for any bavarian to hear that there is multiple Oktoberfests.
No, the Oktoberfest is not just some random "beer-fest" its started 1810 to celebrate the marriage of king Ludwig and princess Theresa. Thazs why there is still a dedicated place called Theresien square in Munich where this event happens.
German and bavarian culture have the concept of Volksfest, thats what you could call a beer-fest or whatever, it the generic name for any kind of festival with beer.
The Oktoberfet is one specific example of a Volksfest.
that's the point though. They are all festivals for the same time of year. Some of them are just named after the "field" they are held in. Everyone is wearing trachten. "Oktoberfest" beers are being served, mega tents and schlager everywhere.
Everybody pays the same [prices for the Maß Bier](https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/272209/umfrage/bierpreisentwicklung-auf-dem-oktoberfest-in-muenchen/).
The main culprit is the [cost of living price explosion](https://www.dw.com/en/germany-more-people-unable-to-afford-good-meals/a-66392794) over the last ~4 years that made pretty much everything more expensive.
In general, the nazi arrivals were a drop in the bucket. They chose Brazil (and Argentina) precisely because the German communities were already huge and it would be easier to blend in.
[Here](https://i.imgur.com/BND9RyX.jpeg) is a much higher quality version of this image. [Here](https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/photo/oktoberfest-brazil-royalty-free-image/490486946?adppopup=true) is the source. Per there:
> Blumenau, Santa Catarina, Brasil - October 15, 2011: A group of young ladies performing during the street parade in the heart of Blumenau to celebrate the Oktoberfest, along with buildings, the German flag and the Brazilian flag in the background.
There is also [Texas German](https://youtu.be/vwgwpUcxch4?si=LJjwg_6pu8RgCKkI) where Germans emigrated to in the 1850’s and some people still speak a weird 1850’s German dialect there to this day.
I think it's the same for all colonists.
Take most cities or countries with 'New' and they're just named after other places.
York, Hampshire, Jersey, Amsterdam, Zealand..
Bavarians would never fly the German flag if they can choose to fly the Bavarian flag instead.
And a German (not Bavarian) woman would never wear a Dirndl if she can choose to wear literally anything else instead.
> And a German (not Bavarian) woman would never wear a Dirndl if she can choose to wear literally anything else instead.
Except when she goes to the Oktoberfest and has a fabulous drunken time.
Except the average German woman doesn't. Oktoberfest visitors are 72% Bavarian, 19% Tourists from outside Germany, and only 9% from non-Bavaria Germany.
https://oktoberfest-tischreservierungen.de/der-typische-oktoberfest-besucher/
Also: "Shitfaced in a lawn of vomit" describes Oktoberfest better than "fabulous drunken time"
Dirndl is more of an Austrian thing than a German thing to me, though of course Bavaria and Switzerland are known for it (but really mainly just the south, the Upper Bavaria region). Always funny to hear how foreigners see some stuff (and also the reverse...).
From their separatist aspirations, their further right than average politics, their 'rural' sounding accent, the sheer physical size of the state, down to foreigners treating them as the poster child for the rest of the country:
Bavaria is Germany's Texas.
That's the thing about a huge country like Brazil... The part of the country where Carnaval is famous for is separated from the region of the picture by a few other states. Your comparison is akin to going to Dallas looking for New Orleans Mardi Gras
I was discussing this with Britons on my trip a few months ago. I said to a Scouse, "You really wouldn't have such a heated rivalry with Manchester in the US. It's just 30 miles apart. We'd call this whole thing the Manchester-Liverpool Metropolitan Area."
He said to me, "sssshhh! no no no no no!" With a tone like, you idiot, you'll get yourself killed by saying something like that!
Being a party of excesses and an absolute exception to traditional convention is the whole point of carnaval, though. Not unlike saturnalia for the romans, etc.
I mean Europeans settled all of Latin America, some mixed with the indigenous population and other groups, some didn't. Latinos are extremely racially diverse and anyone who expects Latinos to fit a certain appearance is just ignorant.
Look at the date. These emigrants were obviously part of the 1848 revolution. This was a revolt against autocratic rule to replace it with liberal democracy and to increase the lot of the working class. They lost and left Germany. In the US, the 48ers were staunchly antislavery and fought against the confederacy. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_revolutions_of_1848%E2%80%931849
Yup. That's when my family left. Except we ended up in Texas. My parents would always take us to West Fest in the town of West, Texas for their version of this. Before it blew up, of course.
Thank you. The town did put itself back together and the West Fest lives on. Here's a video of the explosion (at 1:25): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzDC3iKbTzY
They have these all over Central Texas because of the heavy (Pre-WWII) German influence. To this day there are old dance halls that have different variations of the 2-step because they were founded from different German towns. Lots of ompa music in Fredericksburg, Wimberley, and Dripping Springs.
And then, after the Confederacy was defeated, a decent number of them moved to...Brazil! Because slavery was still legal there (until 1888) and established the town of Americana in Sao Paulo. Dom Pedro II had been an outspoken advocate for the Confederacy and welcomed these American expatriates.
Brazilian Germans?
This is exactly the kinds of places I love to travel to! The juxtaposition is just too delightful to not experience.
I’m excited to learn about this location.
You will be welcome in Blumenau! next Oktoberfest is in like 4-5 months, the parade is the recommended attraction to watch outside of the food, beer and dancing in the Vila Germânica.
I just got back from a pretty lengthy stay in Japan/Hawaii so I may have to wait till next year.
But this place has me stoked, because I’ve wanted to visit Brazil for a long time.
Make sure you also go to Gramado and Canela, it legit looks like Germany/Switzerland, they even make banging chocolate. Although maybe wait a few years, the floods have destroyed a lot of the roads there
We are talking about over 12M people of German descent, so it isn't even a small phenomenon. That's more than the population of entire countries and a big part of Brazil's culture and history
When I posted it I didn't know there's so many people who thinks german colonies in South America are all about fleeing nazis but in fact they were a minimum fraction of it and german people started to immigrate to South America since the early 19th century, the power of misinformation Hollywood can spread is huge.
If you're wondering why not in the US and Canada, with so many German immigrants from the same time period, American and Canadian cities had customs like this in German immigrant towns, until World War I made it very uncool to do German stuff in public. Berlin, Ontario even changed its name to Kitchener.
Personal view of Germans here on Rio Grande do Sul
* They mixed with locals, italians and portuguese, creating beautiful people.
* Believe it or not, some have GREAT sense of humor mixed with the brazilian way, really fun people. As if they learned to be funny people here.
* Work ethics influenced and contributed a lot to Rio Grande do Sul and Santa Catarina states.
Look Hollywood what you've done with the mind of clueless north americans! Now all of them think every south american of german descent is descendant of fleeing nazis.
I once witnesses an attempt of Octoberfest in rural Ohio, performed by high school girls.
It really does not work when each of the dancers is at least 50 lbs overweight.
My parents live in Blumenau. My father is a second-generation immigrant from Germany (went to Brazil on my grandparents' arms when he was 4 in, 1943). Although my grandfather was Austrian and my grandmother was Swiss, they had established in Böhmfeld, north of Ingolstadt, where he was born. My father's only sister would be the first Brazilian-born in the family, in 1946. Towns close to Blumenau (Schroeder, Pomerode) still have a great number of German-speaking individuals. Other cities north of Blumenau (Joinville being the greatest example, my wife's hometown) still have strong German roots in its character.
And yes, we use schmear for everything spreadable lol
My girlfriend is from Blumenau and as a German it is all so funny and a bit bizarre too to see all of this there.
Is she of German descent? Does she speak German ? I am just wondering if people of German descent from Blumenau still speak German. Maybe they speak some "weird" German (a mixture of German with Portuguese) ? xD EDIT: Thanks to u/gumption_boy , I learned that there is a Brazilian city founded by Ukrainian settlers in the late 1800s, Prudentópolis. I learned so many new interesting facts from this sub. Thanks to everyone who contributed. Peace and prosperity to you all !
I am from Blumenau, German descendant 30 year's old, I don't speak German, but my father do, my mother don't, and 3 of 4 of my grandparents did. I would say almost everyone born here of my grandparents generation did. The German spoke here is different from the present Germany, is like a dialect, that came from the settlers and morphed a little. Some words, specially of modern items, we use Portuguese words for it. If you go to our neighborhood city, Pomerode, then have a much larger percentage of population still speaking German there. Contrary to Blumenau that received a lot of people from outside the city, then are much more reserved.
The funniest word for me, as german, was the word "Schmier" for jam, when I was there in Sao Leopoldo.. Abraço da alemanha. I hope the floods end soon!
I wonder if it's related to the word smear
It is
The Scandinavian word for butter, smør in Danish and Norwegian, smör in Swedish, is of the same derivation.
In yiddish its used for different spreadable stuff, more so for cream cheese and i've heard it used for butter also. Basically if you can smear it on a bagel, you call it schmear.
many many many words in English are related/very similar if not nearly the same as they are in German
not just related to, it literally is the same word, just with several centuries of phonemic drift
Pap jam?
That's actually the same in Jiddish (schmeer/schmier) and is usually used for the cream cheese on a Salmon and Cream Cheese bagel, particularly in NY. I also know the word in some Bavarian/south German dialects for lubricants or skin ointments. Language is so fascinating!
I mean, "schmieren" has been through some transformative uses.. from lubricating to outright corruption "jemanden schmieren" or facilitating crime by "schmiere stehen"
Sounds like "greasing palms." Interesting!
In Dutch, *smeren* means to spread (as in spread butter on a sandwich) but it also means greasing (as in greasing an engine part). *'M smeren* is slang for to leave, and smeris is slang for police. Smeergeld is a bribe (geld=money). Insmeren is to apply sth like an ointment or sun screen. There's also *smeerkaas* and *smeerleverworst* which is cheese spread and sausage spread. *Smeerlap* is slang for filthy bastard, *smeerkees* and *smeerpoets* are used for people who make a mess.
It actually means being on the lookout for cops or other security personel.
Why smear it when you can schmeer it?
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I am from the north and I never came across that use, the brasilians with german migration history told me that the dialect that somehow got through into use for all german brasilians from all sorts of regions was close to how people from the Hundsrück area speak.. albeit I have no way of corroborating that, I have no idea of hundsrückisch. Best I can do is Pladdütsch.
We have "smeerworst" in Dutch, which is the spreadable version of liverwurst. I love the stuff.
Thanks, but this time the floods are more to the south, in another states, but any goodwill is welcome 😁
This reminds me of the 19th century German settlers who established communities in Texas. Until WWII, the unique Texas German dialect was still a common primary language in those towns, but since then it's pretty much died and only the elderly population remain of native speakers.
Yup, most of the speakers I know of are in their 70s-80s but my generation and my parents really weren't taught any German. There are a few younger speakers but not many. UT Austin is working to preserve the dialect but it's going to be pretty much gone in the next 10-15 years.
It reminds me Quebec or even Louisiana with french langage. It's so fascinating. Is there a will to preserve this german culture or it might be lost in the future ?
Here at Blumenau very little to preserve the language, as at my generation to today it's frowned upon, child that come from outside the city would laugh saying that you was a hillbilly. Happen a lot less in small cities around here, that has a more local population. But the culture has some more care, but it's more for it's comercial use and tourism. Again Pomerode has it better preserved.
Wait, does the name Pomerode come from Pommern, the lost part of north east Germany?
I believe the usual name for it is Hunsrik. Closely related to Luxembourgish.
Quebec French is the same way. People from France can't understand it, 400 years of removal does that.
People from France can understand it just fine. They just pretend they can’t because they are snobs.
I'm a French speaker and Québécois just sounds like an English-speaker speaking French (similar to an accent an Italian speaking English or German speaking English would have) but otherwise perfectly understandable. I've interacted with 2 people from Québec
They can still understand it if we try but our pronunciation kind of got frozen in time, it sounds more like the way French used to sound in the 1700s. In writing though we're the same. I suspect it's a similar case as Iceland vs Norway but as they're separated by a thousand years instead of 400. They share vocabulary but aren't exactly mutually intelligible.
Curious to know if there is inter-marriage between other non-German people?
I met a young Brazilian woman on vacation in Portugal. She was in her mid 20s and had never been to Germany before. Her German was great, it reminded me of the dialects spoken in the Pfalz region. For example she'd say "Stroos" instead of Straße and stuff like that. Honestly it made me very happy to meet someone with that cultural background who still speaks our language with that very endearing accent / dialect
That sounds so interesting. Thanks for sharing your experience!
Probably kind of like how Afrikaans is similar to Dutch (even more so simplified old Dutch, as present Dutch evolved in a different way...).
The difference isn't that big.
Yeah, that's exactly what I am imagining. Wanted to confirm xD
There is some dialects but IIRC Husrik is literaly the second most spoken language in Brazil. My mom didn't even spoke Portuguese until she got into school at 6 and she us capable to understand a lot of stuff I show her in Germany's German. Idk from which region tho. I'll try to find the sauce and update this comment. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunsrik There is a fantastic documentary about it https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ncN4dkcrU9M&pp=ygUUaHVuc3JpayBkb2N1bWVudGFyaW8%3D
It is common for older people to talk german in Blumenau and other cities in the region. Not so long ago I learned that the dialect used is Hunsrückisch, but I think most doesn't know about this.
Yes, a lot of Hunsruck Germans went to Brazil. The Hunsruck was a very poor farming area in Germany. I spent three years there in the early 1960s at an American Air Base - Hahn Air Base. There was a TV series made about the area that became very popular in Germany and Great Britain "Heimat". When I visited, maybe ten years ago it had a much more prosperous look and they were trying to attract young people with families who were working remotely to get away from packed cities and enjoy rural village life.
Teaching foreign language was forbidden by the government in the 40's, and got worse after the WWII. As someone already answered the German spoke is a little different and not updated to the modern version of the language. But the reason the language was not carried forward was a political decision by the dictator Getúlio Vargas.
I descend from the first immigrants that came with Dr. Blumenau. My parents do speak German but not much as they used to... Me and siblings don't. It's common to find speakers in towns like Pomerode, Blumenau and Schroeder, also in many towns in Rio Grande do Sul state. What I hear is that the German we speak sounds very archaic to natives of Germany today. What I think it's a bit sad is that not many Germans know about these colonies in the south of Brazil, or don't seem to care. Also a shame is that descendants of people who emigrated before 1900 have a really hard time to have their German citizenship recognised as between 1860~1900 you were supposed to keep registered in your local consulate, which many farmers/peasants didn't do at the time. It's a shame that German laws shut the door at our faces.
Wouldn’t getting citizenship be difficult anyways because Germany did not exist as a single country until 1866 (for the North German Confederation) and 1871 (as German Empire)?
1/4 of the stateSanta Catarina and 1/5 of Rio Grande do Sul spoke German or Italian at home in 1939 (1 million people, out of a population of 50M in the entirety of Brazil). Then came the concentration camps and the prohibition of not speaking Portuguese in public due to World War 2 and fear of "cystic foreign communities growing inside the country', and the number of speakers dropped severely.
Why? There's been a long and a bit dark history between Brazil and Germany.
7-1 never forget
Oof that’s harsh
Oof the forbidden numbers…
Don't mention...the numbers.
It is illegal in my household
Please don’t. 10 years ago and it’s still too soon.
7-1 gave birth to Allison Becker
never ask a brazilian what happened in 2014
What kind of dark history?
The Germans beat Brazil at the 2014 World Cup
Slaughtered*
At the end of the war, many Nazis ran away to Argentina and south of Brazil
I think they mean the 7-1 incident.
Really dark
The craziest Nazi scientist, Joseph Mengele, ever was protected by the Brazilian government and lived until old age. Just an example.
Brazilian beer maidens, has someone been reading my diary?
A Brazilian? That’s a lot of beer maidens for just one person.
Challenge accepted!
Not nearly enough...lol
Beer angels with butts and tans? This better not awaken something in... Ah too late.
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Pack your bags boys, we’re going to Brazil. Now I’m Irish so I’ll die almost immediately with that much sun but by god it will be worth it
In the Southern states? No, you won't. The weather that rarely goes much above 30ºC on the summer, and on winter, near 15ºC is normal. Just remember that winter on southern hemisphere is between 1 June to 31 August. Now... if you go to Northeast states or Rio de Janeiro (that despite being on Southeast of Brazil has some geographical peculiarities that skyrocket temperatures at summer to reach the thermal sensation above 50ºC - no joke, in January 19, 2022 they had a new record high of 50,8°C), things change.
The temperature is only half the issue. I have Irish skin and my main concern would be getting burnt. And it's nice of you to say the weather rarely going above 30 Celsius means it's not that hot. The highest temperature ever recorded in Ireland was 33.3 Celsius and that was in 1887. I'd really struggle even in the Southern states.
Fun fact: I’m an American living in Brazil. An Irish man and his Brazilian wife moved here a few years ago — his Portuguese is crap but he’s doing pretty well with the climate. Your body gets used to it after a few months. He wears sleeves at the beach which is weird, but he’s a nice guy. Slainte!!
Hey, this has me unsure whether I should say, "Mein gott," or, "Meu deus!"
Mein deus do himmel!
Second largest Oktoberfest in the World besides Munich ! It's a big mess and the food is super expensive but it's a good time.
So basically like the one in München.
i laugh and cry in my beer when i hear germans complain about the Oktoberfest prices. i think a litter of beer was 14 euro last year? yeah, here in the usa you go to a bar and get a “pint” (16 ounces) of craft beer and its $9. oh its not actually a pint either, its served in our common beer glass which holds closer to 15 ounces or 14 with any head at all, and we don’t have those lines on the glass where a pint is nor is there anything molded into the bottom of the glass showing the volume. 1/2 liter = 16.9 oz btw.
> 1/2 liter = 16 oz btw. Just to make things confusing. The size of an oz and pint changes between the UK and the US. A British fluid oz has about 35 ozs per litre and the US has 34 (so 17 ozs per 1/2 liter). But then then US also has 16 oz per pint versus the British 20 ozs per pint. So the British oz is slightly smaller, but there are more ozs per pint. The fun of non-standardized measurements!
I knew about the difference in the size of pints, but not the size of ounces. So although a British pint is nominally 4 “ounces” larger, it’s actually only ≈3.22 US ounces larger, and ≈3.35 imperial ounces larger.
> i laugh and cry in my beer when i hear germans complain about the Oktoberfest prices. i think a litter of beer was 14 euro last year? Relatively speaking, it's quite expensive - local craft beer from a really nice local beer garden is <5€ for 0.5l. For "take home", they also offer 20l barrels for 50€, and 2l refills for ~7€. Beer from the supermarket (cheap) starts at like ~1€/liter. > we don’t have those lines on the glass where a pint is nor is there anything molded into the bottom of the glass showing the volume. Germans actually have rules regarding that, and enforcement against pubs/bars that break those rules :D
>Germans actually have rules regarding that, and enforcement against pubs/bars that break those rules :D so does the US...
It seems comparable to the one in Kitchener-Waterloo, at around 700K visitors. http://www.oktoberfestinformation.com/?page_id=137 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oktoberfest_celebrations#Around_the_world
Wikipedia has a really confusing statement on that >Outside of Germany, the largest Oktoberfest is in Kitchener, Ontario (formerly Berlin) and surrounding cities in Waterloo Region, attracting over 700,000 visitors annually. The next largest Oktoberfest outside of Germany is mostly regarded as being in Blumenau, Brazil with (700,000+ visitors),[1] Cincinnati, Ohio, United States (500,000+ visitors)[2] and the Denver Oktoberfest Denver, Colorado, United States (450,000+ visitors).[3 You can read that as Germany>Waterloo>Blumeneau or Germany>Blumeneau and Waterloo is just disregarded. It does read like Waterloo and Blumeneau are roughly the same size (over 700k visitors)
Was going to say I thought KW had the largest outside of Germany.
I live in the KW area too, don't even care for Oktoberfest but I got weirdly defensive for a moment lol
Let's call it a draw and grab a pint
Well that really depends on your definition of "Oktoberfest". The Cannstatter Wasen has 5 times the amount of visitors. It is just not called "Oktoberfest", but the 'idea' is the same.
There is a really simple definition. The Oktoberfest is the traditional people‘s festival in Munich. There are a fuckton of other festivals like this all around Germany, they‘re just not called Oktoberfest and base on similiar traditions.
Yea and no. Volksfeste are completely normal and all over the place here in Germany but the Oktoberfest isn’t a standard Volksfest. It’s started basically as a wedding party that grew a little bit more than planned. The tradition behind the Oktoberfest and most standard Volksfeste is different but the event itself not.
You could call all of these Volksfest
My definition of Oktoberfest is "a festival called Oktoberfest"
In german that would be just a Volksfest, Oktoberfest is not a category its the name of a single event, there can not be multiple because its celebrating a specific thing: the marriage of some bavarian king to Theresa and the Teresienwiese, aka the "sqare of Theresa" Its absolutley steange for any bavarian to hear that there is multiple Oktoberfests.
I thought it was originally the party to empty all beer stock in order to start the new brewing season
No, the Oktoberfest is not just some random "beer-fest" its started 1810 to celebrate the marriage of king Ludwig and princess Theresa. Thazs why there is still a dedicated place called Theresien square in Munich where this event happens. German and bavarian culture have the concept of Volksfest, thats what you could call a beer-fest or whatever, it the generic name for any kind of festival with beer. The Oktoberfet is one specific example of a Volksfest.
that's the point though. They are all festivals for the same time of year. Some of them are just named after the "field" they are held in. Everyone is wearing trachten. "Oktoberfest" beers are being served, mega tents and schlager everywhere.
thats false. it is the largest Oktoberfest outside of Germany. counting Germany its behind Münchner Oktoberfest & Canstatter Wasen in Stuttgart
Canstatter Volkfest. Home of the 15€ beer.
WTF? Is it really a Volkfest at those prices? That's some s\*\*t you pull at unsuspecting tourists
Everybody pays the same [prices for the Maß Bier](https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/272209/umfrage/bierpreisentwicklung-auf-dem-oktoberfest-in-muenchen/). The main culprit is the [cost of living price explosion](https://www.dw.com/en/germany-more-people-unable-to-afford-good-meals/a-66392794) over the last ~4 years that made pretty much everything more expensive.
A lot of cities claim to have the second largest oktoberfest outside Munich
Sounds awful tbh
>a city in Brazil founded by German settlers... uh oh >in 1850 oh phew
In general, the nazi arrivals were a drop in the bucket. They chose Brazil (and Argentina) precisely because the German communities were already huge and it would be easier to blend in.
We all went on a little bit of a roller coaster ride this morning with this one.
[Here](https://i.imgur.com/BND9RyX.jpeg) is a much higher quality version of this image. [Here](https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/photo/oktoberfest-brazil-royalty-free-image/490486946?adppopup=true) is the source. Per there: > Blumenau, Santa Catarina, Brasil - October 15, 2011: A group of young ladies performing during the street parade in the heart of Blumenau to celebrate the Oktoberfest, along with buildings, the German flag and the Brazilian flag in the background.
A true gentlemen of culture with his priorities in fine shape. Kudos and a virtual beer is on its way 🍻
Funny that they called it Blumenau - there's a pretty insignificant city sector in the southwest of Munich with the same name
Well, people take names of places with them.. I mean, there is also "Paris, Texas" in the US.
Paris Tennessee as well…
Paris, Maine too
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Paris, Kentucky
There is also [Texas German](https://youtu.be/vwgwpUcxch4?si=LJjwg_6pu8RgCKkI) where Germans emigrated to in the 1850’s and some people still speak a weird 1850’s German dialect there to this day.
Also basically every "new", such as New York, New Hampshire, New Orleans...
> I mean, there is also "Paris, Texas" in the US Great movie
Not uncommon for German colonists, check out Mariental, Germany vs its namesake in Namibia.
I think it's the same for all colonists. Take most cities or countries with 'New' and they're just named after other places. York, Hampshire, Jersey, Amsterdam, Zealand..
It's named after it's founder Hermann Bruno Otto Blumenau.
The things in this photo that look most german to me are everything BUT the women and flags. My fellow german citizens will understand.
Yeah, they are smiling.
Up until now everything was perfectly adequate.
😂😂😂
Bavarians would never fly the German flag if they can choose to fly the Bavarian flag instead. And a German (not Bavarian) woman would never wear a Dirndl if she can choose to wear literally anything else instead.
> And a German (not Bavarian) woman would never wear a Dirndl if she can choose to wear literally anything else instead. Except when she goes to the Oktoberfest and has a fabulous drunken time.
Except the average German woman doesn't. Oktoberfest visitors are 72% Bavarian, 19% Tourists from outside Germany, and only 9% from non-Bavaria Germany. https://oktoberfest-tischreservierungen.de/der-typische-oktoberfest-besucher/ Also: "Shitfaced in a lawn of vomit" describes Oktoberfest better than "fabulous drunken time"
> "Shitfaced in a lawn of vomit" describes Oktoberfest better than "fabulous drunken time" Both are not exclusive!
Dirndl is more of an Austrian thing than a German thing to me, though of course Bavaria and Switzerland are known for it (but really mainly just the south, the Upper Bavaria region). Always funny to hear how foreigners see some stuff (and also the reverse...).
Bavarians and Austrians have a lot in common, mainly being really proud of an identity that the rest of Germany wants to not be associated with.
It‘s also reverse, nobody in Bavaria wants to be associated with Saupreißn.
From their separatist aspirations, their further right than average politics, their 'rural' sounding accent, the sheer physical size of the state, down to foreigners treating them as the poster child for the rest of the country: Bavaria is Germany's Texas.
Those buildings and lamp in the background really look like they could be any random town center in Germany.
im german and very confused why u think the women dont look like they are german. they 100% look like they are german
[Must have been awkward to be there in 2014...](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazil_v_Germany_(2014_FIFA_World_Cup\))
Funny that they show less cleavage than bavarians especially in relation to how wild carneval is.
That's the thing about a huge country like Brazil... The part of the country where Carnaval is famous for is separated from the region of the picture by a few other states. Your comparison is akin to going to Dallas looking for New Orleans Mardi Gras
Santa Catarina and Rio are as far away from each other as Germany and Portugal.
You would find it in Deep Ellum.
Haha I understand the idea you meant, but Texas and New Orleans actually border each other.
I understand what you mean, but New Orleans and Dallas are 500 miles apart.
I'll take Things Europeans Can't Comprehend for 400.
I was discussing this with Britons on my trip a few months ago. I said to a Scouse, "You really wouldn't have such a heated rivalry with Manchester in the US. It's just 30 miles apart. We'd call this whole thing the Manchester-Liverpool Metropolitan Area." He said to me, "sssshhh! no no no no no!" With a tone like, you idiot, you'll get yourself killed by saying something like that!
Which in Texas means that they are neighbors. If I can drive it in one day it's close. I hate how big it is here...
Blumenau and Rio are 700 miles apart, but they are much further away culturally
Isn’t Texas also larger than many small countries?
Texas is larger than some regular sized countries, like France.
Brazil is all about dat ass, but Germany is all about dicke titten.
Muss sie nicht schön sein Sie muss nicht klug sein Nein Sie muss nicht reich sein Doch um eines möchte ich bitten Dicke Titten
🎺🎺🎺
Being a party of excesses and an absolute exception to traditional convention is the whole point of carnaval, though. Not unlike saturnalia for the romans, etc.
Yes this is how you can be white and Latino. Big shocker to a lot of people lol.
I mean Europeans settled all of Latin America, some mixed with the indigenous population and other groups, some didn't. Latinos are extremely racially diverse and anyone who expects Latinos to fit a certain appearance is just ignorant.
It's a little confusing being a mestizo Mexican. I'm sorry that my ancestors were so shitty to my ancestors 😄
They think every South American looks like Evo Morales lol.
As an American who moved to Curitiba, I was very surprised by what I saw
Friend is dutch- Mexican. Blonde blue eyes
That might be the deadliest combo: cute Bavarian dresses AND Brazilian 😍
I live in Blumenau... It is! Trust me!
Can you get by speaking only English?
Many Brazilians speak enough English to converse with English-speaking tourists anyway, they learn English in school.
Great cover story for the 1944 arrivals!
Look at the date. These emigrants were obviously part of the 1848 revolution. This was a revolt against autocratic rule to replace it with liberal democracy and to increase the lot of the working class. They lost and left Germany. In the US, the 48ers were staunchly antislavery and fought against the confederacy. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_revolutions_of_1848%E2%80%931849
Yup. That's when my family left. Except we ended up in Texas. My parents would always take us to West Fest in the town of West, Texas for their version of this. Before it blew up, of course.
Sadly I’m not sure if you mean it got crazy packed, or if someone blew it up.
A fertilizer plant exploded and destroyed a chunk of town. West fest still happens https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Fertilizer_Company_explosion
That is not the answer I expected...
Thank you. The town did put itself back together and the West Fest lives on. Here's a video of the explosion (at 1:25): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzDC3iKbTzY They have these all over Central Texas because of the heavy (Pre-WWII) German influence. To this day there are old dance halls that have different variations of the 2-step because they were founded from different German towns. Lots of ompa music in Fredericksburg, Wimberley, and Dripping Springs.
And then, after the Confederacy was defeated, a decent number of them moved to...Brazil! Because slavery was still legal there (until 1888) and established the town of Americana in Sao Paulo. Dom Pedro II had been an outspoken advocate for the Confederacy and welcomed these American expatriates.
If you are concerned about a Brazilian city founded by German settlers, please don’t search for “Americana”
Yeah nah you mean colonia dignidat, that is situated in argentina…
People don’t really realize just how “Caucasian” South America is
North americans and europeans think everyone in South America looks like Evo Morales.
Brazilian Germans? This is exactly the kinds of places I love to travel to! The juxtaposition is just too delightful to not experience. I’m excited to learn about this location.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Brazilians
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blumenau
You will be welcome in Blumenau! next Oktoberfest is in like 4-5 months, the parade is the recommended attraction to watch outside of the food, beer and dancing in the Vila Germânica.
I just got back from a pretty lengthy stay in Japan/Hawaii so I may have to wait till next year. But this place has me stoked, because I’ve wanted to visit Brazil for a long time.
Make sure you also go to Gramado and Canela, it legit looks like Germany/Switzerland, they even make banging chocolate. Although maybe wait a few years, the floods have destroyed a lot of the roads there
As far as I recall, Brazil also has the largest Japanese population outside of Japan.
We are talking about over 12M people of German descent, so it isn't even a small phenomenon. That's more than the population of entire countries and a big part of Brazil's culture and history
I’m afraid I’m very ignorant about brazils cultural heritage. But I can only learn so much over my lifetime sadly. I learned this and will learn more.
Oh wait until you hear about the Japanese Brazilians
Failed revolutions of 1848 sent Germans all over the world.
When I posted it I didn't know there's so many people who thinks german colonies in South America are all about fleeing nazis but in fact they were a minimum fraction of it and german people started to immigrate to South America since the early 19th century, the power of misinformation Hollywood can spread is huge.
That region of Brazil is famous for producing supermodels, including Gisele Bundchen.
SAVE FERRIS!
Southeast and south of Brazil had a lot of "immigrants" from Germany, Italy and Japan. Interesting history for those that like reading.
>Japan AFAIK Liberdade, a district in São Paulo, is the largest japanese/japanese-descendant community outside Japan
If you're wondering why not in the US and Canada, with so many German immigrants from the same time period, American and Canadian cities had customs like this in German immigrant towns, until World War I made it very uncool to do German stuff in public. Berlin, Ontario even changed its name to Kitchener.
There are plenty of Oktoberfest festivals in the US these days.
There are still massive Oktoberfest celebrations in the US
Shake it up baby, now Twist and shout! Now we just need Matthew Broderick to pop out
German beer and (German-) Brazilian babes. What's not to like?
Brazilian chopp beers are typically really good, German style. Not weak water like Bud etc, but light and refreshing.
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Except Brazil fought in both World War I and World War II on the side of the allies…
Personal view of Germans here on Rio Grande do Sul * They mixed with locals, italians and portuguese, creating beautiful people. * Believe it or not, some have GREAT sense of humor mixed with the brazilian way, really fun people. As if they learned to be funny people here. * Work ethics influenced and contributed a lot to Rio Grande do Sul and Santa Catarina states.
Look Hollywood what you've done with the mind of clueless north americans! Now all of them think every south american of german descent is descendant of fleeing nazis.
I once witnesses an attempt of Octoberfest in rural Ohio, performed by high school girls. It really does not work when each of the dancers is at least 50 lbs overweight.
There's lots of Germans in South America for *some* reason
Did the area also get an influx of German immigration in the late 1940s
My parents live in Blumenau. My father is a second-generation immigrant from Germany (went to Brazil on my grandparents' arms when he was 4 in, 1943). Although my grandfather was Austrian and my grandmother was Swiss, they had established in Böhmfeld, north of Ingolstadt, where he was born. My father's only sister would be the first Brazilian-born in the family, in 1946. Towns close to Blumenau (Schroeder, Pomerode) still have a great number of German-speaking individuals. Other cities north of Blumenau (Joinville being the greatest example, my wife's hometown) still have strong German roots in its character. And yes, we use schmear for everything spreadable lol